Kirin Dejonckheere, International Model & Life Coach

0:00Tessa: This is the Business of Modelling, the podcast where we explore the fascinating world of the modelling industry. I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year of business. Today, I'm delighted to be with international model and life coach Kirin Dejonckheere. Originally from Belgium, Kirin now lives here in New York and is represented by Identity Management. She's worked all over the world for some incredible brands, including Valentino, Mulberry, Dior, Prada and Louis Vuitton. Thank you for joining us today, Kieran, and welcome to the Business of Modeling.

0:39Tessa: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Can you tell us where you grew up and what you were like as a child? I'm born and raised in Antwerp in Belgium. I had a very basic household, two parents and two younger sisters. we were definitely not wealthy and I didn't really know anything about the fashion industry before I got introduced by starting to work in it my life was very active I would say outdoors too so our family holidays would be going camping drive out to France or somewhere by the sea in Belgium we had a caravan and would put up tents go rock climbing or like just swimming in the sea in the north sea so yeah just very basic like definitely not a city life I would say that like I grew up in the suburbs.

1:25Yeah, so very different from living in the city here. I always describe myself as a very active person, active personality. I was just a lot like I had a lot of energy. So I'll be very loud and active. I did a lot of sports when I was younger too. My parents are karate sensei. So I also grew up with martial arts. I also was never really on the computer or on my phone. I loved connecting with people in person and just loved like playing a lot too like I was very yeah playful when I was a kid what did you study I actually originally wanted to become a vet for animals because I I love animals until today I foster dogs in New York but when I got scouted that was around the time I mean I was already working as a model when I had to make the decision of what I would do in college right university right yeah and then the studies to become a vet are a little bit too intense to combine with traveling around the world.

2:23Tessa: Right, so at that point you had to make a decision. Yeah, and so then my interest in the anatomy of human beings and also physical activity, I decided to study physical therapy. I wasn't able to finish those studies because then the next decision a year later came up about do I want to move to New York City or do I want to stay in school in Belgium and then I did decide to move to New York and switch to online courses. So what were your passions when you were young? yeah animals were a really big part of it and then just yeah like I think giving back like always like trying to help others and definitely in in ways like feeling that I added value to people like I loved having people come to me to ask questions and be able to help out and and the same with animals I feel like like volunteering and just taking care of them that I love taking care of things and people yeah I think that's something I'm passionate about and And then also nature, like I care a lot about nature and the environment and all these things.

3:30Tessa: When did you first get scouted and how did that happen? The first time I was 14, I was just shopping with some friends in the city and someone came up to me and asked my height. I think she asked first how tall I was and then she gave me a card and asked me to reach out to them or stop by the agency but I truly wasn't interested so I came home and I gave the card to my mom and that was it and then that entire year more and more people came up to me and giving me cards and so I was just collecting all the cards but completely honest I didn't know anything about the fashion industry. I had never opened a magazine or didn't really care about what I would be wearing to school, like all these things.

4:17But yeah, then when I was 15, Tamara, so my mother agent from Belgium, she reached out to me by Facebook. And it was the way that she approached me was very like sweet and nice. And I think because I was a little bit older already that But I discussed it with my mom and we decided to go to Brussels to take a train together and just check it out. Just see, like, let's figure out what this is. And now we can still take it from there.

4:44Tessa: So tell me what that experience was like. It was interesting because it was a very small agency at the time. Are they still your mother agent now? That's lovely. Yeah, it's 11 years. So far, a little bit over 11 years. Why have they been really good for you? Yeah, I always say if my mother agent wouldn't have been my mother agent, I would probably not be a model anymore. Because the industry itself has it really highs and it slows. She cares for me and also the other models, like almost like a mom. And especially because my family didn't know anything about the modeling industry. Like now my mom kind of understands and she knows and so we can talk about it.

5:29But at that time, I didn't know anything. and she was always the one making the decisions for me but she also had my full trust and I think that's really important to find a mother agent that you can fully trust and almost feels like family to me yeah and now she also has two kids and she became even more like a mother figure and she also decided to make the agency with just models that they scouted because before they were working with more international models as well I'm so very small but good like they're doing well

6:02Tessa: so you went in to see her and took some digitals presumably and they they took you on yeah and then the nice thing was also that they didn't put any pressure because it did explain like this is what we see for you and they gave me an example of another girl that did the valetino campaign recently and they were like we really see this in you which was to me like oh yeah are you sure because I was still wearing my retainer as well yeah it's like 15 and and also they they did tell me um because they measured my hips like if we do want to start um with shows because that's a great way to start a career then we'll have to work on your measurements but you're only 15 so until you're 16 we will not let you work anyway so there is time and it's also up to you if that's where you want to go but yeah so they were just super sweet and understanding and it did take some digitals and they said that I was photogenic and so you started doing some test shoots and things until you were 16 yeah do you remember your first job I think my first job was um oh yeah it was actually a Calvin yeah Calvin Klein in Amsterdam or like the Netherlands was your very first job yeah wow okay yeah yeah and I remember that it was in the middle of my exams in June I showed up and I was studying mathematics because that was my exam the next day and so yeah I was pretty stressed but also super excited and I passed my exam excellent that's the most important thing yeah and um yeah that was a beautiful shoot

7:37my first runway was a Louis Vuitton exclusive and I was very nervous because walking on heels was definitely something that I had never done before and so building up towards that moment I did get a lesson and also had to stop by my agency many times to get better and they told me to practice at home and but you never know until you're there and the crazy thing is also that it's so much work and effort and stress and for then in the end like a seven to ten minute walk like show but it did go well. I quickly learned how to perform well under high pressure.

8:15Tessa: From this point you were still living at home were you? Because I was still in school I always went back to Belgium but I also think that that made it pretty exhausting because in the beginning I would only work in Europe so I would take a train to Paris or to Amsterdam or London but then I started flying as well for like campaigns or lookbooks, magazines and then going every time back to Belgium was becoming very hard because then I would fly out, fly back home to go back to school, to then fly out again. And yeah, so, but I still lived with my parents, yes. When you first started, when you were sort of at that stage, what did success look like to you?

8:55It's interesting. I sometimes reflect on it, even still today, because, again, modeling has never been something I wanted to do. it just came on my path and I did understand that it was a very unique opportunity and so it was more like I have to take this like not every girl gets this chance but I also did realize while doing the job that it was not 100 % in alignment with who I am as a person but it's again that the highs are so high like for example my first campaign that I got booked was for Valentino and the campaign was shot in Kenya in Africa going to Africa and seeing giraffes and elephants like you know that was a dream since I was very young and my parents we never had the money to do a trip like that so on one side that's like a dream job and I'm so excited so happy but on the other side that trip itself it's like you're waking up at 3 4 a.m every morning to shoot an entire day until the sun goes down to do the same thing again like for five days straight to then fly back home to go straight back to school which makes everything way more intense it's an actual job and I don't think

10:11Tessa: people always realize that when you left school then do you remember the conversation that you had about making that decision to then go into modeling full-time there were more aspects at that time that were playing a role i was 18 and it was around summer and so the fashion weeks in september were coming up yeah and so the year before i also went to new york to do a full season but then i still lived at home but i also started feeling i think because i matured pretty fast because of working so young that i started feeling that also living at home was something like I felt like I wanted to expand and grow also my season the year before went so well kind of like my breakout season that my agents were also like look if you really want to go for your career right now then you should move to a fashion city and I did know that Paris and London were not my city so that's why I decided to move to New York and with my studies it was in a way hard But on the other side, I always said and I always knew that you can always go back to school.

11:27This is something that's an opportunity that is now. And my plan has always been like I knew modeling is not for life. Yeah. So I always knew like after I will pursue something else.

11:43Tessa: So now take us on your modeling journey. Tell us who you worked for and the jobs that you did. so yeah worldwide exclusive for louis vuitton was my first show um i think in total i shot seven vogue magazines other beautiful magazines like numero campaigns yeah my favorite is still that valentino campaign in kenya i did another valentino campaign a few years later coach eyewear Montclair eyewear mulberry campaign it was beautiful too in London beautiful location as well tell us about the mulberry shoot what do you remember about it they rented or they were using a house outside the city it was like a beautiful big mansion with enormous gardens and yeah and we were shooting outside and because there's even a picture with like tiny frogs that wasn't yeah we We were not supposed to shoot with that, but we were shooting a purse.

12:43I remember I was holding the purse, and then I suddenly saw these little frogs in the grass. And so I told everyone, stop moving. And then they were like, what's going on? Protect the frogs. Yeah, because I was like, all these baby frogs. And then I picked one up, and so there's one I think that I'm kissing it. So it's like, because I was like, what if it's a prince? I said it was a plan, the tool. No, yeah, and then it all worked out. And the team was super nice, too. yeah I think that's always what makes it a job because in the end again it's it's a job and it's work yeah but if you have people that get along and that's that doesn't always happen that the team like gets along together and like have the same idea but if that happens then it's so nice it's really like teamwork and everyone is in like a good mood and lifts each other up and then you

13:27Tessa: can create such beautiful results and what have been some of your other most memorable jobs my One of my favorite shows was walking on the Trevi Fountain in Rome. That was for Fendi. Because we were actually walking on glass, like on the water. And that was so... I felt like a princess. Like it was also the collection at the time was so beautiful. Oh yeah, I did a shoot for Vogue China at a ranch in Texas. So we shot with a baby kangaroo and a white peacock. Yeah, it's just like the craziest animals together. there was even a bison there but we didn't shoot with him because he was a little bit too wild they told us yeah again i'm an animal person so i would shoot with anything being a model i think it's very transient isn't it you're constantly sort of flying from place to place how do you cope with all of that i think because i was so young that i was okay dealing with it my body would just be like fuck it and just do do what it needs to do like function when it needs to do but it did make me feel lonely at many times and there were moments because I said like my family we had never been further than friends together but then I would be in Japan and in Africa and and I was always thinking like I wish I could share this with my parents or with my sisters and because my personality was not like a model really I had other passions and our interest like I would get to a hotel and make make a backpack put some food in there and go explore because we would have a few hours free and then we would have to work so but then other girls would be kind of tired from the flight and just want to like watch tv in their hotel room so I had a hard time making friends and and there are still until today like a couple of models that I do really connect with because we're kind of similar but yeah so I think it made me feel lonely has there been an agent or booker you've had that you felt a real connection with and appreciated yeah so my mother agent Tamara she's like a second mom to me she has always been very understanding and actually also my agent from VNY her name is Lana Winters I was with VNY for seven years here in New York and we also have a very close connection and we're still until today in a really good place together well how did they help you how why do you have that connection with them I think there were moments throughout my career that like my friends in school they they wouldn't really understand and then the same with my family at home while they did they know how hard it can be and how tiring and what the impact of flying jet lag like all these things they all try to understand my family and friends but if you haven't experienced it it's really hard to do so and my mother agent tamara she was a model herself and she was younger and her husband too so they were both models so they really talk from experience and there were moments that i needed to support and that's why i said like there were moments i think if she wouldn't have been there i wouldn't have pushed through how important is it for a young model to have somebody like that as their agent or their mother agent?

16:45I think it's one of the most important things especially if you start at an age like 15 because you're still discovering yourself and then I always had a really good sense of if people are treating me well or not and so with Amara that trust was pretty easily built. Yeah you're a kid and I didn't realize it myself until my youngest sister turned 16 and I was like wait because she was to me still such a young girl yeah but then I was like I was traveling all on my own like through the world for work at that age while I would not she's not independent enough yet to do anything and I mean at that time in my opinion so yeah that that really hit me

17:30Tessa: how did modeling shape your view of yourself I think you went in waves there were moments that you're in the moment booked for an amazing campaign and so you kind of feel on top of the world for a second but then the next day you would bump into a girl that booked a campaign for another client that is maybe like a level higher or just something that you really wanted to do so then you start comparing yourself right away and that always can like bring you down a lot if you don't get the mental preparation to step into an industry like that you do start to compare yourself and and so in a way people from the outside they're like you're living the dream life and you're traveling the world and you're shooting all these amazing campaigns but I'm the one being surrounded by the prettiest and the tallest girls from the entire world yeah so I never felt pretty or at least the prettiest like sometimes I would see it but I would always compare myself to someone higher or better or someone that would do more chops and yeah I think that comparison was something that really brought me down when they would put the makeup like put makeup on put me in the right lights in the beautiful dresses obviously like you can make anyone look pretty but when I would be on my own in my own clothes without makeup and look in the mirror I I never was able and I'm talking about the past like I wasn't able to see myself as being pretty so that was definitely a lot of work that I had to do over time to to build my self-confidence and yes self-love what was the hardest part about working in fashion at such a young age I think for me and so I don't know if that's like I don't want to say this for everyone but I feel like I was losing my own identity because for such a long time like people would treat me as a model so I really started believing like I am a model and so only later that I realized like it's it's not who I am it's what I do and it's really important to create that gap between what you do and who you are but I really had to start rediscovering who I actually was because when I stepped into this totally different world from because it's the opposite from what we were talking about before who I was as a person and I never regret making that choice and now being a model or working as a model is definitely a really big part of who I am as a person but yeah that rediscovery of really finding my own identity when I moved to New York City and I was a model here and suddenly people would let me in clubs for free because I was a model and like in New York there's models I think in Europe or at least where I was at home I felt misunderstood and and i was very skinny as well for just a normal person in belgium so i didn't really feel like i fit it in but then when i moved to new york they lift models up here we are like treated like princesses and queens and which i also thought was totally wrong in a way because i don't like when people are valued just by their appearance like i would never do that to anyone either and so that's what really started shifting my perspective and also noticed that i had to relearn that I was valued for more than just my looks I mean I've always cared more about other people what they do instead of what they look like and so for myself I also created that vision for myself that it's more about what you do and like actually making an impact and making a change did you ever feel pressure to be a certain size I mean you said to me when you first started your agent said if you want to do the shows you're going to have to we're going to have to look at your measurements um yeah have you then did that pressure continue when they told me um I knew at the time like this is 11 years ago there was a certain it was I think under 90 centimeters your hips had to be for a high fashion show um so I knew like okay this is where I'm at and this is the goal I do have a lot of perseverance since I'm very young so kind of on my own I was like I'm gonna try this and and I did I lost 22 pounds or 10 kilos when I was 15 years old yeah in a way that was amazing because I got under the hip measurements I walked my first exclusive for Louis Vuitton and that was great but at the same time because I didn't have the right guidance I did it in a very unhealthy way right yeah so I I did struggle with my weight and also hormonal imbalances for many years.

22:13So how did you do it at that time? First I started eating less I mean as a 15 year old you're growing and I was just eating everything and I was doing a lot of sports as well so I would eat a lot.

22:24Tessa: Yeah. So I just went more to like eating a little bit healthier at first but I didn't have much fat because I did so many sports so it was more muscle especially my hips. Yeah, from jumping on trampoline, I did gymnastics as well. So I stopped doing my sports and then ate less and less because I wasn't really losing weight. It's really, it's harder to lose muscle than it is to lose fat. I started doing yoga and running to try to make lean muscles. And then it took, I think, five months. I wasn't losing any weight. So I just kept eating less and less because I just thought like, oh, this is not working.

23:02I still need to eat less. And then in one month time I lost 10 kilos and that because then your muscles start taking the nutrients from like your body because they don't get them from the outside and it's because it was such a fast switch that's a very unhealthy way to do it and then yeah I could tell from like the symptoms I was dealing with at the time that I was underweight for some time.

23:25Tessa: And what symptoms were they? So my hair stopped growing I also got very cold suddenly before I could swim in nature lakes and never be cold but yeah I got cold very easily I grew like little fuzzy hairs so yeah knowing what you know now if there's somebody in the same situation that's just has chosen that they want to go down the fashion modeling route and they want to do that how would you recommend that they went about that in a healthier way it is definitely possible to reach your goals in a healthy way but it's all about balance and doing it from a place of loving yourself and not hating yourself and providing yourself with the right nutrition so a lot of people think that you have to eat less to weigh less or reach your goals but it's really about just eating the right stuff because your body will do exactly what it needs to do if you feed it the right things like now I eat a lot of food but I eat a lot of the right food and then it's incredible what your body actually can do and and then I do believe in resistance training as well because I did only cardio for many years and I was having hip issues lower back pain and also my ankles were very weak and it's only once I started actually resistance training with weights or resistance bands that I could strengthen these muscles without getting bigger because a lot of girls are also afraid of getting big which is actually very hard for a girl so yeah that's definitely what I would recommend

25:01Tessa: was there ever a moment where you felt totally out of your depth so around that time when I was 18 I had already an amazing career behind me I also found out because before my mom because we're not wealthy my mom in the beginning always told me that modeling really wasn't making me money because shows don't pay that much and so in the beginning you have to pay your trains your airbnbs all your transportation food everything so she was like if you're lucky we cover these expenses but don't think you're making money so i was very frugal and that's how i grew up and so i stayed that way but then by the time i was 18 because of living so frugal and then had been working like making money too they actually had a lot of money had an amazing career behind me um had a very supportive family but I really wasn't feeling well like I really didn't feel understood and with my friends in school I really disconnected because I was traveling so much that I only when I was in school I had to focus on school and when I was doing modeling and I think that was also one of the parts I was giving 100 % at work and 100 % in school we're really not leaving any time for myself my family I had a boyfriend at the time but I also ended things because I could tell I was not I didn't have a right life balance and so that's when I noticed that something needed to change and that that form of success was not what success meant to me and that's when I made the decision to move to New York and I had the feeling of like I can become here whoever I want to become like I almost like a second chance like no one knows me here and I really want to figure out like who I want to be and then just do it and what do you feel was missing in the industry for you at that time that maybe could have helped you that guidance that support um just kind of like a preparation of like look this is what you're getting into or or with losing weight like I remember one of my agents grabbing me on my legs and saying like this is what we got to work on and this is not my mother agency or anyone I talked about but as a 15 year old having someone grab your legs like that that's something I will never forget and that has a really big impact while instead if they would have provided me with nutrition guidance and maybe like a psychologist to make sure you know you're doing everything right mentally as well and things would have gone in a very different way yeah and that needs to come through the agencies right yeah yeah I I would love if they would support that.

27:39And that's also one of my goals with getting these certifications and the things I'm pursuing now, that I really want to step up to agencies as well and provide that for younger girls.

27:54Tessa: How did it feel stepping away from something so intense and high profile? With modeling, it was more also the transition in my own career, like without my intention. it was once I stopped doing fashion weeks that I had so much more time to myself and I started booking more diary bookings because I think that it's mainly the fashion weeks that are just so intense for a young girl because you're for a month and a half just non-stop traveling and working and then only after the real season starts so you're already exhausted and tired and then the real jobs are coming so once I stopped walking shows that's when I had all this time to myself and really just make sure I'm in a really good place to then actually book the good jobs where also you get paid more and treated better.

28:42Tessa: What made you want to start coaching? It was actually during COVID because from my physical therapy I went to a course of sport massage so I was still thinking about going into this like physical aspect of helping people but then COVID happened and so I was home in Belgium for six months at that time and I really I can't do nothing so I Like I need to find something else. And then I remember it's a life coaching event that I went to myself here in the city. It was a full weekend. And that was really transformational for me. And I was 18 at the time. And that was the last push I needed to grow and change.

29:20And so I got very passionate about being able to become the person for others that I needed myself back then. And so I started studying for it. And then once I got my green card, I actually started my own business because I wanted to do it in the right way. How did you go about getting your green card? So after two working visas or one, you have the option to renew your visa or try for a green card. There is no guarantee. So it's definitely a lot of money and stress that you put into it. but I also knew that it was um yeah it was it was a good moment for me to do in my career at the time and I'm glad especially how things are now I'm very glad I did it at that point yeah and also just if any advice to anyone I applied to my embassy to the embassy of New York or like the US but in Belgium because the lines are way time in the US is way longer

30:23Tessa: what lights you up most in the work you're doing now seeing others grow I've been doing life coaching for three years now and a year and a half ago I decided to add the personal training and nutrition to it so I can do mindset fitness and nutrition because I was having a great impact and doing working over zoom which was very convenient especially during covid but i love helping others grow and by having a bigger impact like helping them in every aspect in their life you can make such big changes and especially if you build that trust with someone you really feel like you're a part of their growth and yeah that's so like even now i get like emotional because it's so fulfilling to me to to know that i'm actually having an impact and adding value to others and And throughout your journey or thinking back to your journey, what have you had to unlearn?

31:19Perfectionism is something I, I know I still, I still work on, like it's, it's one of my default modes, let's say, and trying to control things outside of me. I think for the longest time, I really try to control my surroundings or the things outside of me, but it's really about learning the self-control and also just learning to find peace with if things don't go your way or um yeah are different than you expected

31:48Tessa: do you ever still um feel pressure to to perform or perfect yeah but it's different i like i would i used to get anxious like more like scared in a way but now it's like i still get those same feelings but i see it more as excitement i think it's also more like a mindset shift because in the end the feelings are very similar and also the parts in your brain are are very similar and close to each other so it's more like a mindset shift that I made for myself like yeah like I'm a little nervous but it's very positive I'm excited this is something like really big and amazing I'm gonna be a part of what do you do now if you do feel disconnect so my reset is always being on my own and then there are things that like for me working out is one of things that helps me really feel comfortable or just get my mind in a calm place.

32:44I do bread work sometimes. If nature is around, that's definitely a go-to for me. But being in a big city like this, I do try to find different ways to do that. Yeah.

32:56Tessa: So where do you find your nature in New York City? Yeah. I have a bicycle. So I can pretty quickly get to Central Park or like any other park. but yeah that's that's definitely something i i do frequently and then i do try to get out of the city like really out of the city go for a hike um in summer or to rockaway beach to go surfing or a weekend in florida even just nearby and really out of the city

33:27what is something you're still learning i always knew i was different but i didn't like it i always like wanted to be like other people for some reason but then the older i get the more i appreciate my differences the more like i can use them more as superpowers so instead of hating them really just appreciating them and seeing how that actually helps me help others and have an impact and and that i see that in others too like i can recognize

34:02Tessa: others superpowers if I can say that yeah what advice would you give to another 15 year old girl that's about to embark on a modeling career stay true to yourself and if you do want to make a change that's okay but just make sure that you first find someone that you really trust and that will guide you through that journey that you're not alone by growing myself because I keep working on myself too like I keep reading books I keep I have my own mentors like I I keep working on self-growth and that by being the right example sometimes that's just enough to have other people see that and want to make changes themselves where are you in your modeling career right now you're still modeling what kind of jobs are you doing now more diary bookings so it's it's an amazing place that I'm in right now because when I'm in New York I'm just focused on my own business and my own clients and then my agency would always ask me hey are you available for this job or for this casting and then I can let them know yes or no.

35:03Tessa: So you feel a lot more control of in control of your own career now with that. Yeah and it's also I have a very different relationship with the industry too because I'm in such a good place that now I truly enjoy like whoever I work with and I still talk about the things that I'm passionate about like I'm not as before I mentioned I was kind of hiding who I was but now I'm fully myself.

35:28Tessa: What's next for you either personally or professionally? I think eventually I would want to organize retreats like transformational retreats so take and especially throughout winter because even in winter I'm not such a fan of New York City so I do like to go somewhere warm so we'll want to organize retreats somewhere outside or maybe in the US like Puerto Rico for example and then apply everything that I'm working on now but then in actual like full trip and then my final question is if someone's listening and feels stuck or unseen what would you want them to hear what would you tell them don't be scared to ask for help because even when you feel in a place like that when you look on the outside you really feel like no one feels what I'm feeling right now like no one will understand but they will and they are.

36:27Tessa: Kieran thank you so much that was such a great conversation yeah and I really appreciate your your time. Thank you for having me. If you've enjoyed this episode with Kieran don't forget to subscribe leave us a review and follow us on Instagram at business of modeling podcast for behind the scenes content.