Natalie-Amber, Modelling with Crohn’s Disease

0:02Welcome to the Business of Modelling, the podcast where we explore the fascinating world of the modelling industry. I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year of business. Today, I'm joined by Natalie-Amber. Natalie has been modelling since the age of four. working with brands including Adidas, Pretty Little Thing Next, Skims, Asda and Gossard Her journey has been far from easy however She has lived with chronic illness navigating years of misdiagnosis and the impact that surgery and visible scarring have had on her body, her confidence and her career Natalie is also a speaker podcast host and ambassador for Crohn's and Colitis UK.

0:58She has actually used her visibility for good to challenge how the industry talks about bodies, health and confidence, pushing for more honesty and better representation in casting and media.

1:15Natalie Amber, welcome to the Business of Modelling. Hello, I'm glad to be here. I know you started modelling at the age of four and you then went on to dance school so tell us that story so I grew up and still live in Swindon so I was normal normal girl always taught like told off for the by the teachers for talking too much I don't think that's ever going to change I always talk a lot but apart from that like I was always you know really good in school I went to a normal primary school then secondary school then I did a year at I say normal college and then I left to go to like a private dance school which we didn't know about until one of the teachers at college had said about it and I was really lucky because it was in Swindon so I didn't have to move to London you know you have like birds and lanes it was like that but in Swindon so the principal used to be in hot gossip especially with Arlene Phillips and this was it was like a whole different level.

2:15So were you dancing when you were younger had you always been a little dance child as you go to your sort of Saturday classes and so I actually trained as um in taekwondo so my mum and dad are both into martial arts so my dad is um well he's just I think he's done that since before I was born because he got into the finals of gladiators I remember gladiators he's got this he's on the final for that but um so I was kind of they made me do that all the way up till I was about 17 18 I didn't really go to dance classes at all but the reason I got into dancing is because I had I had a casting and I was little and the dancing was terrible my mum was like you need dance classes like that is what was the casting it was from Asda I didn't get the job oh what did you have to do I had to dance but I kind of tried to do some sort of moon I've actually remember it to this day I was trying to do some Michael Jackson moonwalk I don't know I can't do the moonwalk still to this day my mum was like she was like I remember her being like mounting into the ground like right I think you need dance classes but I never actually did any sort of professional dance until I went to the private dance school so that's where I was thrown in the deep end but I just found a love for it.

3:31Tell us about some of the most memorable jobs you've done as a model so going on to your to your modeling side what were you doing as a child because you literally modeled since you were young. Yeah, I actually did Woolworths. I was in all the windows, which was cool. Did you have that gorgeous hair then? Yeah. Fox Kids was fun because they put curly, different coloured extensions in my hair. So I had red and yellow, like spiral curls. They glued into my hair for the shoot. That was really fun. Oh, did you keep them for school? Yeah, keep them in. I was like, got to take them out. Like, no. And I think that because I got time off school, it was really fun because then I didn't have to go to school.

4:08But I did a BBC advert with Fern Cotton and that was really fun. And actually, at the time, I'm up against like Sylvia Young students with no like I'm just normal, normal little girl. So that was scary. But then I'd usually get the job over them because they're very, very put together and trained, whereas I wasn't. So then actually it shows you don't have to have training to get a job if they like you and you're you. and sometimes that's what people lean more to because I didn't know how to act as such you know so I didn't come with a trained ready to do this because then it doesn't always look so real does it so that was fun I've done a girl talk I was on the cover all the way till I was I think 15 for girl talk magazine which was I don't know if it's I think it's still out now but it's a really good one I miss all those magazines and me they was they were the better when you got the like free toys as well yeah yeah and then I did um Inspector Lindley so I don't know how I that one was quite funny because I had to play a girl that got killed by her brother and um the actual casting he made me lie down on the chair and be really still but like I was still for so long and he they were laughing at me because they were my mum and the casting director because they were like she's really like getting into this like really good at being dead yeah and then I got the job and it was actually in a real morgue I think it was I had to go in the morgue they wiped it down and my feet were on the actual slab and then they put a black bin bag sort of thing on the top where my top half was I don't think I realized at that point like actually that's a real morgue you know the one job I never got though was the children's the cruelty to children

5:44Natalie-Amber: one because they said I was too happy so okay that was an idea they try and have you sat in a corner looking really sad yeah I couldn't be sad I was like my mom's like you definitely not got that one I'm just a happy person it's really hard to be serious so when they're like you know when they're like as a little person like you have to smart like be serious it's like how it's really hard but I think kids jobs were fun you had so much fun on them yeah and you got so much confidence yeah you got yeah so much and from doing them I think it's great doing doing modeling as a kid It's so much fun. And performing as a kid.

6:22So I went to two dance schools. So the first private one I did was hardly ever in. This is the problem. So I wasn't really in much. Right. So this is when, so when did your illness start? Wow. Do you remember having it when you were a child or when? No, but I was sick as a baby. So my mum's always now thinks like, is that, was that Crohn's? Was it? Because I was always sick and she tried different milks, different everything. think I had really bad eczema all the way growing up but I had terrible skin um like so much to the fact that my beautiful skin now thank you yeah the eczema's got a bit I think it's because I've got a diagnosis that everything just got better so when did your sort of issues with your tummy and everything start about 17 18 that I remember myself yeah yeah um and that's obviously when I fuzz at that dance floor so then I left there didn't really go in and it was just well I couldn't get out of bed and the doctors were telling me have a FODMAP diet and have this and nothing was working and even at that dance school where the industry is very toxic with how you look she would you know the teacher was like oh the FODMAP diet's fine there's loads you can eat on there and what's that what diet so a FODMAP diet is what they usually give to somebody if they think it's IBS or a lot of people that before they've got diagnosed with Crohn's or colitis have probably been on a FODMAP diet and it's a strict it's a strict like list of foods to eat and they think that it will help but it doesn't and a lot of it now I've realized why it wouldn't have worked for me anyway was like there's a there's sometimes like seeds on there or nuts and obviously that's a lot high in fiber so that wouldn't have worked for me anyway with Crohn's um so that didn't work yeah they obviously didn't know at that point no they were just thinking IBS then I got told I was overexics I was a dancer um bulimic everything but crones so when I'd moved from that dance school to the next dance school same thing again like I was never in because I was ill and actually one of the teachers used to cover at my old dance school and she was like oh I remember you because you were the one that's never in and it's like well that's embarrassing like because I didn't know myself why I wasn't in so it made me feel guilty like am I really this like lazy person because but I couldn't explain like because they're not in my body at the time we didn't know my body was actually shutting down because everything you know was was dying really awful at that age because all you want to do is just yeah go get on with your life and um I don't talk to a lot of people from dance school because I just feel like the late the names like lazy you know I was told I was in the top two percent so then I think that's what frustrated people more that I wasn't in but I don't like to hold grudges but I it's a kind of a sensitive thing for me so I don't know if I'm ready to let go of the the grudge right now of like always being called lazy or when I'm not in making jokes because I'm not in one teacher called me Houdini like things like that just slowly over time I'll let it go but right now I think it's still quite a deep thing for me because I see some of my friends that were always nice to me regardless you know one of them has been in Lion King for years and he's smashed it and I just see the stuff that I could have done and that I didn't.

9:29So I did, because I did a one year, I say one year, the year I collapsed in 2017, I had a two-week contract, but that was in Cyprus. And I was sent home because the clothes wouldn't fit me because I was tiny. You could tell. So you were losing loads of weight as well? Yeah, rapidly. Were you eating? Yes, but it all was coming back up. As soon as I eat, I threw it back up. Not because I wanted to, the excruciating pain, it physically just, even by the end, water was coming back up. and that's where the blockage had started. So in like Cyprus, I'm actually quite grateful that I did come home because that was the year I collapsed.

10:05So the contract would have been from April till December and I collapsed in December. So if I had collapsed out there, I don't know if I'd have been here today. And you have Crohn's and colitis, is that right? Just Crohn's disease. You have just Crohn's, okay. I have IBS as well, so you can have both apparently according to my consultant. So just explain what IBS and what Crohn's are. So the difference is IBD is Crohn's disease, so inflammatory bowel disease. And IBS is irritable bowel syndrome. You went through years of misdiagnosis. Seven years of misdiagnosis. I was told by the GP, anorexic, bulimia.

10:47Then I'd go to A &E where I'm constantly being sick. When you're sick in your ribs, when they start to hurt where you've been sick a lot. they could just look at me. I remember one incident. I was sat on the chair in the little room in A &E when they bring you in the room and they put me on the scales. Then he just looked at me and was like, do you like food? I'm like, well, I do. I just, and my mum by that point's getting really angry as well. And she's like, she eats. She's just coming back up. Like it's not me making myself sick. And they send me home again. Then my mum decided, look, I'm just going to pay private because this is this is I'm not even attending dance school you know my dad had paid money for me to go and then I even got a year free from the teachers because they were like you have so much potential like I need you your work and I still couldn't go because it was just completely missed.

11:34How did your diagnosis happen in the end? So it was December and I was just really I was just being sick constantly I started like getting really hot so it was freezing cold outside and I'm inside naked like boiling hot and my mum's like something's not right I'm gonna call nanny down because she was off to work and I said no no I'll be fine on my own she's like no like something I do not have a good feeling you someone needs to be in the house and I passed out um so then my nan like had to take me upstairs because I was downstairs tried to put me in bed then I needed a wee again but I wasn't weeing I just kept feeling like I needed a wee which I now know was sepsis um so then I came down the stairs with nanny again because she had to help me down the stairs and then I collapsed on the bathroom floor and didn't get back up.

12:18And I must have blacked out because the next thing I remember from that. So that you had sepsis. Yes. Wow, that's really dangerous. Yeah. The paramedics came. That's the next thing I remember because I'm led on the floor. And then the next thing you know, I'm in a stretcher being wheeled out. And my vision came back as we were going through the gate of my house to get into the ambulance. So you lost your vision completely. Yeah, couldn't see. But I wasn't freaking out that I couldn't see I don't know if I was like processing the situation I don't know what was going through my head so your eyes were open but everything was black black couldn't see a thing but I could hear fine um got in the car my vision come back then we got to A &E and obviously I remember bits in blurs compared to my mum and auntie and nan um but my mum and auntie then got to A &E and they were telling me I had to sign a form the nurses which I was scared never had an operation in my life and you're telling me I have to have surgery and I was like no no and the nurse screamed in my face and your mum and auntie weren't there at this point they were there at this point but they were trying to make me say yes sign the form which I was just scared because I was like I've never had operation no no no and she screamed in my face the nurse that if you don't sign it you're gonna die and I was like no absolutely not because in it because in my head then I'm like even more scared and my auntie just screamed sign it and to this day my mum and auntie are still angry with the way the hospital works I get that they have to have my consent but then you're not in a rational frame of mind to make a decision my mum and auntie are still angry about to this day because they're like you wasn't even I was in and out of consciousness and my mum said they had to hold my hand and do it and the next thing you know I woke up in ICU and one of the crazy things is about that obviously I had two emergency surgeries I did die on the table but I got revived so I was very lucky and my surgeon said the only reason I did survive was my fitness because for some weird reason I don't know how my body did it I was still dancing in some sort up till I collapsed and I also did a modeling job like a month before for Merrill mounting where I had to climb up the Lake District don't know how I did that either but I did and luckily that's the reason I'm here today was my fitness you then obviously knew what your diagnosis was so then the next challenge now is then managing that yes and waking up with a stoma bag but I didn't know I had the stoma bag oh okay so they did that when you were in surgery so you had no idea that that was going to happen so what I didn't know is that I had my organs out in a bag um before they gave me another surgery to check to make sure that everything nasty was gone and obviously they'd taken out 35 centimeters of my a small bowel um and I didn't know any of this till I got home what is a stoma and a stoma bag and why did they have to give you a bag so a stoma is like a part of your intestine so they put it on the outside of your body which is really weird because I don't know what to expect when I saw like when the stoma nurse came in and was like you're gonna have to learn to change the stoma by yourself because they don't let you out of hospital till you can do that and I didn't know what to expect because I hadn't seen it yet and my mum and cousin because they were up most days they got prepped so they already knew what it would look like and mine looked like a little raspberry literally did because I was expecting like I don't know what it's gonna look like it's my intestine is that gonna look weird and then I was like oh okay fine and it breathes because obviously it's still a lot it's your live intestine but it moves really slowly and I later found out you know there's a horror film called Alien.

15:54There's a guy, the director's got Crohn's so he based the alien on like your intestine. I never knew that. I found out after but mine was quite cute actually. So what was that period like when you came out of hospital and all of a sudden you've had such a massive trauma and your body's not going to be the same again? I didn't actually look at my scar for ages. My stoma fine. Don't know why I didn't look at my scar. I hated it. They'd have to put something here, like a pillow, to change the dressing. And then when I came out, my cousin had to change it for me. Did not look at the scar, but I could change my stoma bag.

16:32But I could only do the stoma for ages lying down. Could not do it standing up. Some people are pros and they can do it quite quick, but I was still learning. How long ago was this, Natalie, that you had your bag? So I had the stoma bag seven years ago now. It's been eight years, I think. And it's just been a really gradual process. yeah I got to be a pro in the end because I learned my stoma but you then you don't have a bag anymore is that right I had it reversed a year later which is quite rare I know that a lot of people can have reversals but for the way that what happened to me I always think that's really rare that I could have had a reversal um and the reason I had a reversal because I always get people asking me like why did you did you not want to keep the stoma bag and yes I got to live a life like it was weird like nothing hurt me anymore in a good way but I was scared to eat food to start with because of the pain and my surgeon was adamant you are not going to have pain I promise you so it took me a while to try foods again properly because I was so scared but I took the risks to have the reversal because I never knew I had Crohn's so if I'd had Crohn's disease as a normal diagnosis they would have gave me medication so I then would have known if it didn't work and I had a stoma bag, fine.

17:48Because yours was such an emergency. I wanted to try and see, okay, can I live a life without a stoma, with meds, now we have Crohn's. And if not, and say in the future I had a stoma bag again, I wouldn't have any regrets because I know, well, I've tried it that way now. And also you'd have time to prep yourself and process that. And it wouldn't be so, it's always scary to have any sort of surgery, but at least I would know what I'm going into with the stoma bag and the tips that I learned along the way. Could still never master it by sitting up. I always think, well done to those that can, because I was terrible at to lie on the floor.

18:22It's just easier. So as you sit here now, what did that period take away from you physically and mentally? When it first happened, a lot of my confidence had none. Especially coming to terms of the scar, again, more so, I would wear really high trousers. Like, I mean, I'd Simon Cowell it. They were up here. That's what they were. because I thought if someone could see just a little gap, because my scar started from here, I thought a tiny bit of skin, and then you wouldn't think I had a scar. So I was really, like, I wore a lot of oversized clothes. Now, funnily enough, I wore a lot of oversized clothes because I was so tiny, and I didn't want any more comments from people asking, oh, you're tiny, do you like food you eat?

19:06Because it's just really, I always say, like, people will shame you whether you're skinny or whether you're big. It doesn't matter. Someone's always got something to say. um yeah I didn't really went like anything flattering which just hid my body hated it did not think I would ever do anything again in regards to like modeling or dancing that was like an absolute no and then my IBD nurse was like you could make a lot of change like because at that time there was nobody in the industry with scars or anything and she is like you have the power to do that and I was like no absolutely not and then if you did told me that I had then gone on to model for like Pretty Little Thing as like their first scarred model, I would have like laughed and said, never going to do it.

19:47And there I am in a bikini in Italy, like, yes. So it took a long time, like really long time.

19:56What kept you going? You know, because there must be a moment where you just thought, I'm just not going to put myself out there. I'm not going to go back to modelling. I don't want to do that. But something obviously kept you going. What was that? I think it was the fact of my mum and my nan and my cousin and like basically my whole family because I've always been supportive of saying like you have the power to make a difference now. And I don't think I realized what my calling was until this happened to me because I just thought I'm going to be a dancer. I want to do this. I want to travel the world and dance, you know, but actually that's not my calling.

20:32and I love dancing, but that's not a passion that I have compared to raising awareness for IBD and making changes and sticking up for people. Like I've just had a girl message me. She's had a reversal. She wants to stay in my back, hates it. She's having a really bad time. Pooed herself in a supermarket. They were so horrible to her. They wouldn't even let her use the toilet with her Crohn's count weight card to change herself up. So I've actually spoke to the supermarket and said like I want changes like made and they said oh okay we're gonna take it on board and tell you know the team and I said no no can you please write me back what you're putting in place and she was just like I'm glad I have you to like speak up for me and I I then I realized that that's why I do that's my passion then making a change for people and my calling but are we naming the supermarket little there we go but the current weight cars I've actually I think we need to do more on them because there's a lot of high street stores and so so you have a card do you to say that you've officially got yes so there's an urgent count weight card for crones okay and it'll say my name on it my member id okay and i can show that yeah to a shop say that doesn't usually let you use the toilet and they're meant to let you in because that happened with the ritz as well but with me they wouldn't let me use the toilet at all sent me down a dingy alley in the dark he was like no didn't care about my card so I actually made a formal complaint and Crohn's and colitis also reached out to them this is when Twitter was a thing and then they tagged Crohn's tagged them as well like can you just explain what happened further please at the writ and then all of a sudden I got a message and they're like oh we'd like to offer you a cup of tea as a sorry I was like no I want you to know that you've made the change so this doesn't happen to anyone else because we offered to go in like and do a speak on these cards and also the importance of invisible disabilities that not everyone you know has to look like you'd be in a wheelchair to be disabled and they were like no no no then in the end they gave me an afternoon tea for two so I did a post saying if anyone's ever around the Ritz area please use your card as they've said that they'll do better but also if they don't let me know and I did that on purpose so that they had to be held accountable and so that if somebody does go in they know now okay

22:55now you are very clear about not hiding your scar yes um was that decision when when you made it empowering um or did it feel a bit risky to start with when i first posted my scar a little bit of it on instagram i was with the horrible boyfriend at the time so he was okay so were you with were you with him before you had your surgery okay how long had you been together um two years okay so he was completely different person completely changed um when that happened and and it wasn't until I had the stoma bag that he just changed horrible person like and obviously I guess that's somebody's true colors because if somebody's not with you through the bad times but I guess there was ways of him handling it and obviously sometimes saying you know nothing worse than having a shit bag it's not very nice and then it made me more anxious because obviously with Crohn's disease I'm like oh god what if I do pee on somebody now like you know not but like what if I am out and you know have an accident whereas I don't care now but back then it took a lot away and when I did post a little bit of my scar on social media he was like oh it's tension sequence I deleted it straight away and I lied to so many people because people were asking me that kind of knew about Crohn's a little bit do you have a stoma bag and I said no no don't have I lied for so long so do you think he was coming from he was worried about what other people would think probably like oh god my girlfriend's got a stoma bag and a scar like oh that's probably what he thought like and was probably embarrassed by it instead of actually actually putting his getting his priorities where they should have been which was with you which I find your feelings and you were the one going through that and what it is now is that my boyfriend now I've been with for six years is the complete opposite.

24:40And I did ask him, because he didn't know me when I had a stoma, if I had a stoma now, like, would you care? And he was like, well, why would I care? Like, it doesn't change who you are. I think Crohn's and dating is hard. And a lot of the time, people with Crohn's are worried to date because of situations like mine or there's been people that are similar. I had a friend with a stoma who, she went on a date and when he found out she had a stoma bag, he went, ugh. And then she was like, well, that was the end of that date. But this is the problem. whereas we have another friend, one of my best friends, she actually was with her boyfriend for years, and she said, well, I just thought, you know what, he's going to find out.

25:17So she said, like, she was going into his house, and went, by the way, I've got a stoma bag. And he was like, okay, cool. She was like, just said it like that, and it is what it is, and then they were together for years. So it's building the confidence, but having relationships that I had and that other people have unfortunately had, it makes it hard, and that's why, like, breaking the stigma is important, and it doesn't change the person. No. It doesn't, you know. And did you worry about how casting directors might react or how it would affect your modelling career? I did to start with because I actually went on a job and the booker forgot to towel them.

25:55I had a stoma bag because I was really paranoid still. So please can you just let them know? And she forgot just generally. And I actually leaked. So I was in hair and makeup and I could smell something. because I was like, I think I've leaked. So I was like, sorry, I just go to the toilet. Went to the toilet and I had leaked everywhere. So I had to come back down the stairs and get a stoma bag. And then they were like, oh, what? And I had to explain then that I had a stoma bag because I thought they'd known and they didn't know. And that's sort of, I mean, we've all done that with periods. Yeah.

26:25We've all been in that situation. And, you know, it's sod's law. You've got your white jeans on and you haven't got anything with you. No. And I guess it's similar to that, isn't it? It's like that. But then it was like when they hadn't heard of a stoma bag, some people, then you've got to explain what it is. Yeah, yeah. What upset me then, and this is where I was still building my confidence, because actually I wouldn't have let that happen now, is that they changed my wardrobe outfit so that you couldn't see the stoma bag. And I just obviously went along with it because I didn't have the confidence really myself at that point.

26:54So I probably wouldn't have got the job if I had a stoma or my scar. And have you ever been asked to hide your scar? No, I have had photographers ask if I want it edited out. and I'm like no no no no no never because that's who I am yeah yeah luckily I've not been told to hide it and also what I love as well is when I get jobs that have nothing to do with my belly because they're actually just picking me for me and they don't care like you know that's not the highlight of the of the job is the fashion and modeling industry genuinely more inclusive do you think or just good at talking about it?

27:34It's a hard one for me because I feel like we have come a long way but we haven't. We're a lot of the time people with disabilities whether visible or invisible we are generally used as tick boxes tick a box okay we've done that now you know I've done the campaign then that's it. Also we're always used for campaigns. Ecom is hardly a thing but you'll see a constant person with a disability it's always a campaign they've done it once and everyone goes oh my goodness how amazing this brand has done this then they never do it again and that is a massive thing that needs to change um especially as well with like fashion week and things like that because you've walked at London Fashion Week haven't you how was that so this year I did um Victoria Jenkins so she's a fashion designer for she has a hidden disability so she does adaptive clothing so she's just had her range out with Primark as well so she's amazing and she actually um unhidden her brand has this was the first year that we were on the main lineup day um for official London Fashion Week and even Parliament mentioned it on the day as well so this is a massive paving the way for disabilities but obviously Victoria she has a hidden disability she knows what's missing but we need other people that don't as well to do the same you know because they're not have you ever felt like you've ticked a box yes 100 i do feel as well as bad as it is to say like the pretty little thing campaign which was absolutely phenomenal and i'm very grateful it's a massive achievement but that was a bit of a tick box um and they've not really done anything like that since so it's a bit of a shame because i so before i did that i was modeling for leanne pinock so I do a lot for her swimwear brand now Leanne's done before she before I modeled for her she had another girl with a disability and she's kept it like that and she's always been authentic with it and when pretty little thing come out they got a lot of credit but I thought what about the people like Leanne who's done it from the beginning when she started that brand she's always kept it real with bodies of all sizes and disabilities and you know and it's a shame because I think she she was authentic from the get-go yeah and she needs to have credit for that and yeah and I know it's silly because we shouldn't have to give people credit for doing what we're meant to be seeing but it means so much to women that can see themselves being represented and including me like she like liked me for me and do you think that the media industries are equipped to support people with chronic illness or are we still miles away you know you can use this person but they're going to need this this and this accessibility yeah yeah cases that have happened I have a friend that's in a wheelchair um and she's been dropped off a job before because they didn't want to change her venue because it wasn't accessible for her um that shouldn't be even a thing if you like her you like her so you it's not hard to find accessible buildings if you want to find it you'll find it and you know it's also about checking the needs of models if they are chronic illness or disabilities you know I went on a job in Spain and the toilet was a hole in the ground even the the cast and the crew were like absolutely we can't use this hole in the ground for anyone in general so they every time people needed the toilet they'd have to get someone to drive us like 20 minutes into the nearest toilet but again that's checking because they they knew I had crones but obviously they didn't really check oh is there anything that comes of this as simple as toilet yeah so what does good support look like do you do you let your clients though do you just go along as somebody that doesn't have Crohn's or do you actually let your your clients know and say I need to have x y and z I'm usually quite laid back if I'm not touch wood flaring as long as there's a toilet I'm fine um if I'm flaring so when I had the job for tenner and I was flaring massively I had to tell her because I was constantly going to the toilet and she was so nice they gave me a different bathroom because they'd rented a house out for the shoot and she was like this is your bathroom only anytime you need this and she said no one goes in there in case I had to run in and it was just so nice and she was lovely and I'm really grateful and it was same on a job in Paris and I was being sick with Crohn's and they went everywhere to find me food they literally went above and beyond they were like no you you I was because at first I was like it's fine it's okay like you know they're like no no we are finding you something you can eat and they went like all over Paris to find me something but it's these little things that mean a lot and it shouldn't it should just be a normal thing but sometimes it's not and there are lots of great people so many like especially with the toilet incident like she was fine she's like nope that's your own private toilet and it was just really nice and it never you you do worry sometimes if you if it will prevent you from getting a job though because people as you said you know they don't want to have these extras on added on.

32:34Tell us about some of the most memorable jobs you've done as a model. Pretty Little Thing was because obviously it was Italy. And that was a campaign. Yeah, that was their unfiltered swim campaign. And it was on that was very big because it was always on as well before Love Island and after as well. So it was like everyone watched it. Everyone saw you. That one's been was amazing. And so was Sephora. I did their New Year campaign two years ago and it was so my whole belly's in a window like scarred belly and I went in there with my mum to London we came up to see it and I'm there like in the shop with my top up like next to my picture which I loved I think they're really memorable because of just the brands that they are they're just so big and moving on to social media so you're very open online how do you decide what to share and what to protect I'm quite I don't know if I protect Are you a good old oversharer?

33:27Yeah, this is the problem of ADHD. I overshare everything. But, you know, I posted a post when I was in Curry's with my mum and pooed myself. And I posted, like, I've just pooed myself. Like, I can't believe I've done this. And now I have to go home and change my clothes. I didn't bring any, like, spare underwear or anything with me. And that posted really well because people were like, oh, my God, it's not just me. Thank goodness, you know. And some of my friends that don't have IBD are always like, I wish I was like as confident as you. And they always remember that same post where I just posted that I pooed myself in curries.

34:04And they're like, how do you like just post that and not care? And I'm like, I just don't care anymore. And have you ever like posted something and then thought, oh, I wish I hadn't shared that? Yeah, sometimes the poo post. Only because I'm like, oh God, people probably think, is that all you do? All I do is poo? Yeah, yeah. And then I'm like, should I have poo? And then I'm like, you know what, it is what it is. That's what I'm here for. And I guess that's what gave the woman the confidence that messaged me with the supermarket, the confidence to message me and say what happened. Because she just felt so degraded by them and so upset and just defeated.

34:37And I think that's what gave her the confidence to message me. So it was working. It helped. Do you think social media has helped body confidence? I think we always talk about the opposite, don't we? And the downsides of it. I think it has. I know it has its ups and downs. But when you follow the right people, then that's what matters. I always say don't feel like you don't you don't have to feel bad to unfollow somebody because sometimes it's easy to get a little bit body envy. You know, see flat stomachs or nobody with scars or stretch marks or and you feel like, oh, I hate my body. And it's fine to unfollow that person, not because you don't like them or you're jealous of them, but because you just need time for a second to heal and to actually think, OK, I need to just work on that myself at the moment.

35:21Then when I'm ready, I can follow them again and look at their page and not have to feel hateful to my body because of their body. And I follow such an amazing people that don't just have IBD, you know, that have different conditions, different disabilities or just body positivity, curvy, beautiful women. and my feed is always happy because I don't have any negative energy on this. I think it's very important that you do follow the right accounts. As a speaker, I mean, you have just done, are doing so well. I mean, Cannes Lions official speaker, you've been on panels, you've hosted workshops, you've presented in Parliament.

36:02Tell us about some of those. I'm the first non-celebrity ambassador for Crohn's and colitis. So I still think that's like my one of my most biggest achievements ever, because I would never have thought that when that happened, everything happened to me. And I love them unconditionally. They're like a second family. And they are supportive in any way that they can be. They've always got your back. And I've met some amazing people from that, you know, that most of the people I love about that charity, a lot of them that work there have either got Crohn's or colitis. So they actually understand as well.

36:34They're also working for the charity, but they get it because they've got the condition. And Cannes was amazing. Cannes Lions is a huge achievement. And Serena Williams spoke same time as me and John M. Chu, the director from Wicked. Huge names. Also, Reese Witherspoon did a talk last year when I was there. And that's where I met Paris Hilton. I met her and Louis Faroe. And she's lovely. Really, really nice, which I think some people are shocked about. but she's one of the nicest people I've ever met. So there's all these amazing names. So then to think that you've been picked to speak at Cannes is huge because there's people that try for years and to actually get an official, like, speaker in the palais was huge and especially for representation for disabilities.

37:19And Emma, who was on the panel with me, is one of my best friends to this day and she's got, it's called Charcot Marie Tooth, which I never really heard of until Emma. And it's like a muscular where she can't really hold things properly. And so she's in a wheelchair. And we saw on that trip, like, both of us had challenges, but from different perspectives. So Emma's, you know, getting stuck in a lift or the lift's not working or they're telling her we'll carry you down. And she's like, well, would you want to be carried? You know, and they're like, well, we don't have to. The treatment that, you know, a lot of the staff at the, not the Cannes Lions team, but the staff, you know, that worked for the event were with her was disgusting.

38:03And then the same, like for me being told, well, you, you're fine. You don't have to sit on that seat. Like, and she, I actually was ready to just go, okay, I'll move. And then Emma shouted at them and said, she has a disability. So we saw it from each other's perspective to show that you don't have to be in a wheelchair to still have. and that's when I said it's very important that they should have those signs like not every disability is visible um apart from like those issues it was just an amazing experience to network and to talk like at cans like it's crazy to say what did you wear I actually wore M &S sent me the clothes for my trip which was good so I had a red code for that day and Kurt Geiger sent me my shoes and bags I was like ah they're really high heels if I'm wearing them on stage if I fall I fall when they're too pretty not to but they sent me the same version in flats too so I could wear the flats after that's a good idea so good yeah and the the flats are really comfy oh my god but those shoes are beautiful but they're like shoes really statement shoes so that they had to be worn on that day yeah they had to be I do like a Kurt Geiger shoe and me and the bags yeah I used to work at Kurt Geiger did you before I got my diagnosis um and my nicest manager ever in a like a my jobs back then was the kirk geiger manager because we didn't know what's wrong and she was lovely she made sure i had food out the back she like you need to go and eat she let me take time off she was the most nicest person ever and she it's funny because when i did the people campaign for kirk geiger she saw it and then it's like crazy how years have gone by and she messaged me on instagram like oh my god i'm so proud of you like and it's funny to know all that time we didn't know what was wrong and now we do and then i went from like working for them to modeling for them which was crazy still my favorite shoe brand also when you worked that the perks were good I had so many shoes what do you feel you're not done saying yet what conversation feels unfinished for you that we all deserve to take up space you know that we should be seen women all around the world and especially little girls because where I've had women message me that their kids have scars or and they're like oh wow this lady has scars and now they know that you know they're being seen and that it's okay I think it's important I it's so important to be represented and to see yourself on whether it's e-com tv acting speaking it doesn't matter shop windows it's just we all deserve to be seen and take up space and I don't I don't think it should be like a one body I did a post the other day and I said like as much as a normal body so I know but what you see a lot of is very overrepresented like there's just everywhere but we don't see other types of bodies whether it is a disability or what is normal yeah you know that's what I mean they make it like a beauty standard is just one thing one size is this is your beauty standard that's it nothing else and that's that's what's upsetting and I think it's just really this year I'm channeling like I am taking up space that I deserve to be in and I think that's one thing that people need to remember and to not be scared I think you know you you are if you're if you're working on behalf of a brand you want your brand to be the best you want to sell your products I completely get that you want amazing gorgeous people advertising that product yeah um you know But there are amazing, gorgeous people that are all different shapes and sizes, that have scars, that have, you know, I'm not suggesting that they should put me on a, you know, on a campaign.

41:41You're beautiful. You should do it. Come on. But, you know, of course you want people to, you know, to look up to, to be inspired by. Yeah. But they're not all size six and skinny and five foot eleven. And that's also okay. You don't have to be. And that's what they need to remember. And I personally will go to a brand that I know are being authentic. It doesn't have to be, they don't have to have used somebody that looks like me. But if they've got somebody on there that's maybe curvy, I'm like, fair enough. Like, and you've used this person consistently or models that look like that person with the body shape.

42:16I'm going to that brand. yeah and it's been the same with people saying things like with Victoria's Secret you know when you watch the runways women are like oh I could never wear that because my body don't look like hers why do we have to say oh because my body doesn't look like hers it's because they don't see themselves being represented no and that's where change needs to be and these women have money and they want to buy clothes they want to buy beautiful clothes one of my favorites for that is Rihanna yeah because she did not just the shades of foundation before any other makeup brand that's been out there way before her and she's not a makeup artist but she's also from the beginning of her savage fenty shows body shapes disability she's done it from the beginning she everyone i know she's you know no one can physically tick every single box for everybody in a show and have this this but she's been authentic and consistent every single year and it's not stopped and that's what i think it's actually worse for the brands that should be doing it from the beginning that somebody that hasn't had to you know where she's come from her singing background and she's wiped the floor clean with with people that have been doing that for years that should have done this ages ago and that's a brand again I represent because she stands for the right reasons and it's not fake you can tell it's real and if a young model with an illness or visible difference asked you whether there's space for them in this industry what would you honestly say 100 % like there is yes you're not gonna get every job that you that you want But also, I like to think that if it's not a yes, it's because something better is coming for you.

43:50But also, it's not anything to do with them. It's not personal. Because I used to think that myself, like, oh, Scar, that's why I'm not going to get this job. Or they're never going to use somebody like me. Again, that's lack of representation. And rejection is the norm across the industry, whoever you are. And that's why I always say don't take it personal. But there's space. There's space. Because there's so many people in this world that look like them. that want to see themselves. Yeah, and also there are lots of people booking models and performers and things out there that do want to do better.

44:23I think it's scary. I get that for a brand when they're not sure and they're like, oh, is this risky to do? Or will I? You're going to get backlash no matter what you do. You could do no matter who you are. You're always going to get good comments. You're always going to get bad. So why not just do it? And what would you warn them about? Is there anything, just be the rejection really and not to make that about your scar. But also once you're putting yourself out there, you do know that that can come with negative comments. So trolls, you know, that you get on social media or maybe someone might post, you say you're in a window for a shop and they take a picture and post it in a Reddit chat.

44:59Oh, you know what I mean? You're always going to get horrible people, but I think you've got to be okay with that because you can't fight everybody and you've got to keep it professional and it says more about, you know, them than it does you. but you have to make sure that you don't let it get to you.

45:22Okay, so I'm going to wrap up and say Natalie Amber, thank you so much. Thank you, it's been such a pleasure.

45:31As always, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who might find it inspiring see you next time