Sarah Gabillia, Influencer & Content Strategy Director

0:04Welcome to the Business of Modeling, the podcast where we explore the fascinating world of the modelling industry. I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency celebrating its 50th year of business.

0:22Today, we're doing something a little bit different. For the first time, we're recording with a live audience from the SR offices.

0:33Welcome, everybody. I'm joined today by someone who's spent years shaping how creators and brands work together. She's worked both agency and client side, led influencer strategy in the fitness space and most recently she was director of influencers at Ogilvy, overseeing creators across the entire L 'Oreal portfolio. She's seen the best and the worst of this space, so please give a big warm welcome to Sarah Gabiglia.

1:08Thank you. Sarah, welcome. Thank you. Tell us sort of where you grew up and what you studied. Sure. So I'm Norfolk born and bred. I currently live about half a mile from where I grew up. So I've really moved far. Classic Norfolk. I studied history at uni. I decided brilliantly that I would be a history teacher. About two thirds of the way through, very clearly decided, probably not the path for me. So from there, quick pivot. and I did my master's in marketing and that was just the start of kind of the journey of my career so far. So what happened at that point? Where were you at uni? So I went to Keele University for my undergrad and then I moved back home, did my master's at the UVA.

1:50Okay, so what was it about marketing that drew you into? So much more interesting and creative. I think history, I really enjoy everything about history, but you can't say anything unless someone else has already said it before. Whereas marketing, it's so much more creative. You can take it anywhere and there's, I kind of entered at the point where digital was kicking off massively. So there was such a huge focus on that. So that was such a much more interesting path for me. And it kind of led me into kind of where I started, which was very much the paid search space, which took me into general marketing, which then took me into influencer marketing and beyond.

2:23When you finished university, what was your first role into the industry? So I was a paid search account assistant. So I worked for a company who were based in Norwich. they had a massive part of their business was affiliates and I worked in a very small element which was paid search and SEO so we had some great clients even from an early start and that was kind of like my entry into it so working through all manner of industries I've worked with like fitness clothing nautical knickknacks is very specific like phone charges and cases and for each of these different clients it was like all the different kind of strategies and different plans that we had to put in place for all of those.

3:03And actually, I think working in agency, going straight into agency is just invaluable, isn't it? Because you're getting experience across every single industry. Definitely. And the speed that you work at in an agency is unreal. And even then it was fast, but it was just like my more, as you mentioned earlier, my more recent role at Ogilvy, the pace of that was insane. So starting from that point, knowing how busy that's going to be, the plane spinning, all of that was like really valuable to have as a base ready to go into something later in my career. And I guess you thrive on that. Yeah, I love all of that.

3:36Every day is different and it's chaos and it's busy and I love that. What was your first role where you started to work with content creators? So I was the brand and marketing manager for MirrorFit who are a massive UK based home gym equipment supplier. And as I came into that role, I kind of got a bit bored of paid search. I'd been doing it a long time, kind of felt like I'd covered everything I could with that. So I wanted to go into a more like generalist marketing role, get back into kind of the other parts of it, I suppose. And as part of that, the role, there was a huge part of that was ambassadors and influencers.

4:13Being fitness based, they had a huge following in the strongman community and all of their ambassadors were like strongmen. So we had the Stoltmans who became world's strongest men. we had Britain's strongest man England's strongest man all of this a very strong man heavy and that was kind of like my first taste of it really. Fitness creators tend to have really loyal audiences but they're not just selling a product like they're influencing people's bodies and their habits discipline and actually their self-worth it's quite a lot of responsibility. It's massive the educational side of it it's a lot of like how-tos and tutorials and and it can be really misleading I think that's a very dangerous element of the influencer side.

4:56If you're giving somebody advice about what they should do, what they shouldn't do, and you've given them the wrong advice and they hurt themselves, you don't really want to be responsible for that. And a lot of people are fitness influencers without any like PT training. They haven't gone down that route. They don't necessarily have that benefit of that baseline in the more, in that kind of like PT world. And that can be really dangerous actually as well. Because people that are going on looking for that advice, you're looking for that advice because you don't know. So if somebody's telling you to do something, you're assuming that person knows what they're doing.

5:31Absolutely. And has got your best interests at heart. And some of them don't. And not everything is suitable for everybody. So they're talking to, in some cases, a really wide audience. And you can't talk to every single individual. So actually getting that experience is really difficult because they're giving you that information. But that's not necessarily for you. What makes a great fitness creator? You don't want to be faced with someone who is this absolute stunning goddess of a human, which is lovely to aspire to. But how many real people can actually achieve that? People are very easily kind of influenced into trying to achieve that.

6:03And actually that can become very detrimental to them. So I think going down that route can be very dangerous. I think it's somebody who has some training, has some knowledge, is likable, but it's actually relatable and achievable for you what they're trying to tell you. it relates to you and your life. What's the fastest way for them to lose credibility in that space? Being found out for anything lying related is really difficult. There's been a number of them who have claimed that their exercise routines and all of their energy and everything that they do is you follow that and you'll achieve what they have.

6:35But the reality is that it could be steroid based and they're found out for that at a later date. And I think that's a massive issue in that industry. Your last role was Director of Influencers for the entire L 'Oreal portfolio. What did that job actually involve day to day for you? That role, I was actually in charge of just the CPD brands. So they're the main like drugstore brands. So I had Maybelline, L 'Oreal Paris, Garnier, Knicks and Essie were my five. So I had the biggies. So my role very much was anything UK or Ireland based from an influencer activity fell under my remit with me and my team.

7:13my role was very much based around meetings lots and lots of meetings um but it's very much the strategic side the planning the processes putting everything in place for my team to do the best day-to-day work they possibly could to deliver those campaigns for those five brands um but a lot of it was meetings yeah a lot of talking to a lot of different people and i mean beauty is one One of the most saturated creative categories. What separated the creators who worked well for the brands from those that didn't? I think some of it is the creativity. And I think it is a massively saturated industry.

7:49So it's the brands that are willing to take a chance and move outside those boxes. They're the ones that made the impact. So, for example, someone like Nick's are well known for like kind of pushing the boundaries a little bit and going a little bit outside what they should be because that's the brand that they are. That's their identity. is where they keep using the same creators over and over again. Do they even work for you? Is it worth still using that creator? Isn't it better to look further afield? So I think where they've kind of spread outside that box, they're looking at like craft creators, for example.

8:19We did an amazing campaign for Maybelline for Teddy Tint, which is like a lip gloss. And one of the creators we worked with 3D printed a teddy as a lip gloss holder. And she didn't have a huge following, but it was a beautiful piece of content. It was really different and it went everywhere. And everyone in L 'Oreal was talking about it for loads and loads of time because it was just so different from what they'd normally produce. The views on it were brilliant and it kind of just showed the value of stepping outside of that known beauty space. And it's so difficult. I mean, there are just millions of people trying to make a space for themselves online now.

8:54And you're doing the same thing over and over again. You're not going to get that recognition and stand out. Exactly. You can't just, they can't have thousands of people just swatching eyeshadow colours. Like, that's fine, but you don't need thousands of thousands of people doing that. What's your hook? What's your differentiation point? And how did you balance the creativity, performance and brand guidelines at that level? A lot of it is down to kind of like agreeing those processes and those policies and things because you're dealing with thousands and thousands of different creators across multiple campaigns with multiple brands all running at the same time, which is really difficult to stay on top of.

9:28So making sure that we've got the policies and the processes in place. was really crucial. We also invested a lot in technology. So anything that cut down on those day-to-day tasks would just take time, but are really mundane. So technology was really crucial in that. And in some places, and also for tracking as well. So those technology pieces not only would help us implement the campaigns, we could also track through them as well. So at any given point, we knew exactly what had worked, what hadn't, and we could pull that data in and we could look at that. And just the general communication with everybody, with the clients, with every brand team internally.

10:04There's a lot of different stakeholders involved at lots of different levels. So that communication is really crucial. And what do brands do you think sort of misunderstand about the creative space? I think there's a few different elements of this. One I think is the kind of importance of giving them creative freedom. When the influencer space first started, everyone was really prescriptive. The brands treated it like another media outlet, like traditional marketing it was scripted everything was really specific and controlled that doesn't work in this space so I think understanding that they need that creative freedom to give them a really loose brief let them they know who their audience is they know what works to give them the space to work to that and the results will always be better and I suppose from a brand's point of view it can be a bit scary thinking actually it's the creator that's speaking to your audience.

10:57So it's kind of taking, they can feel that it's taking power away from the brand. Yeah, but it's also, that's what they've chosen that creator for. So they've looked at that creator and they've gone, they actually, they align with our brand, they work with what our campaign is. So you have to give them that voice because otherwise there's no point choosing that creator in the first place. What's the most unrealistic brand expectation you've been given? There must have been, you must have a few stories. Yeah, there's always a few and they always relate to the same things. It's always around time or budget.

11:28So they want to work with someone who is a huge VIP but they only want to do it for£200. Classic. Or they want to do it a huge campaign and they want it to go live at the end of the week. These things take a lot of time. There's a lot of background work that goes into from that original concept to that brief that we get given as the agency or when you're briefing the influencer. It takes time and you can't turn around that at scale and the quality that you need and the creativity within that short period of time. It's always those two. It's always budget and timing. How important is niche to stand out?

12:03Like how niche should you be? Niche is important, but I think what stops people scrolling is personality. That's the scroll stopper. And then the niche comes in after that. So once you've got people to stop, your niche is going to give you the longevity. So engagement first, get that engagement. You need something that's going to make people stop. You get half a second, scroll, what is the thing that makes someone stop? That's the personality or the hook. What your niche is, is going to give you that longevity. So it gives you trust, it gives you credibility. And it is important. And that's your community.

12:37And that's your difference. But you also need that thing that stops them instantly. What do you think creators misunderstand? Or what are the common mistakes that you see? I think one of the major ones is not understanding their value. When we first started, you could get people to do things for free or for like 50 pounds now they have a value and brands are putting huge budgets behind this they have that value they need to understand what that is it takes a lot of time to do what they do that time has to be paid for and it's not as simple as just recording a piece of content there's probably calls before that content is even briefed they've got to understand the brief they might ask questions there's negotiations that go into it they've got to create the content there'll be revisions of that content they've got to learn to edit it and everything that all takes time they have to understand that value and at the other end of that there's the usage as well again we used to squeeze usage into a contract and hope no one noticed and get it for free that doesn't exist anymore and it shouldn't like they should be paid for what they are and what they do to be paid for it they need to understand that usage has a value understanding of their value i think is something that's really difficult people often get that wrong.

13:48I think when you're representing yourself, it's very hard to negotiate that. And I don't think people necessarily feel comfortable going back to a brand and they're just excited to be involved. So to go back to that brand and say, actually, I'm worth more than that. Yeah. Which is where a good agency comes in because they know your worth and they know the markets and they know what you can charge for each thing. And they make sure that you're not being put out there for things you haven't been paid for and usages that you haven't agreed to. And it's not like a lifelong usage that's being tacked on the end to something or there's some sneaky clauses in a contract because, you know, there's lots of it and you haven't understood it fully because it's a lot of jargon.

14:28And of course, the damaging thing with that is that if you are used by one brand for something and you haven't tied in your usage properly, other brands aren't going to want to use you. That's a massive thing. I think the other thing is saying yes to too many things. brand partnerships are obviously an amazing way for creators to be paid for the work that they do and that's great but you can't just say yes to everything a feed that's full of add add add add that's not going anywhere that's not adding value to anybody though and everyone sees through that now as as social media users like we know we can see it a mile off so say yes to the things that you are passionate about or have an impact to you or are a value to align with your values or are, you know, relatable to your audience and to you, don't just say yes to everything.

15:15Just because someone's paying you something. Yeah, exactly, because that's going to hurt you long term.

15:27What are the platforms that matter now? I think the standard ones are always going to be there. TikTok, obviously great for discovery, those viral moments, having a personality, brilliant for all of those points. Instagram is still going to exist. It's beautiful. It's aesthetic. It's great for brands, for their discovery. That's always a big one. A way that brands will look at influences quite often will be start with Instagram, move outwards. YouTube's having a resurgence. I think the mixture of the short form and the long form is really interesting. People love the evergreen content, the how-tos.

16:02Every time I think, oh, why can't I do this on my computer or CapCut should be able to do this. I'm like, how do I? And I'm asking YouTube and watching a tutorial about it. And that long form content has a value and that value will keep going because it's evergreen. It keeps popping up. It's great. And then we get the kind of challenges, I suppose, things like Snapchat. When I was working with L 'Oreal, we were getting increasing number of briefs involved around Snapchat, trying to engage that younger community and also Twitch. I have not even heard of Twitch. What's that? So it's a platform for gamers and it's the idea being that you are getting in front of a different audience completely.

16:41So because so many of the beauty brands and are working with these saturated creators who, you know, one day they're working with L 'Oreal, the next day they're working with Charlotte Tilbury and, you know, they do the rounds a little bit. And their audiences probably overlap massively. How are you getting in front of an audience who is completely different and new to you? and platforms like Twitch are the new ways to do that. Do you think brands have become too metrics led or not metrics led enough? I think sometimes they look at the wrong metrics. I think they love to go for a vanity metric so followers reach these kind of surface metrics like impressions or views.

17:22It's great to know how many times someone has seen a piece of content but actually what does that tell you? So I think looking at some of the more trust or influence related metrics are much more interesting. So looking at, yes, you've had 350 comments, but what are the value of those comments? What was the sentiment of those comments? Were they just little fire emojis? Because what's the value of that to your brand? Nothing. Or when you've got an influencer who's created a piece of content for you, are all of the comments about that creator? Or are they about your brand? Because the thing you want people to talk about is the product for you as the brand.

17:55So I think that has a different value to it and things like dms how many dms do you get are they relevant are they interesting are they ask questions about things i think those are sometimes metrics that get lost and from a creator perspective it's like how is that creator performing over time so it's not just this piece of content that might have worked really well brilliant but actually if you've used them consistently over a 12 month long contract how did they perform over that contract has it increased improved? Has it got worse? What does that tell you about what you should do with them in the future?

18:28We're bound to look at far too many metrics sometimes, but I think having the key ones that you look at, but I think what are the key metrics that actually matter to you?

18:41What will define a successful creator in 2026? I think, and everyone always says it, I think authenticity is a huge part of this. I think if you don't, if they're not being authentic to who they are, what they normally say, their credibility, their audience, it's just not going to land whatever it is that they're creating. So that's really crucial. I think also having the creative edge to know what's interesting, what's going to work is going to be really important as well. Number three is like the adaptability and the evolution. Things are changing all the time. The platform's making changes.

19:19There's new technology coming in. There's new tools. You can't sit still. How do we stay on top of that? I think it's testing and learning. A lot of it, staying current in what's going on in the environment. Listen to what people are saying who are leading in the industry. Listen to what other creators are saying. You have to keep going. You have to keep moving forwards. Test, learn, test, learn. There might be tools that don't work for you or that don't work with the algorithm or aren't great. Then you know that doesn't work. So move on to something else. but you can't stay sealed just because it used to work it doesn't mean it's going to continue to work and I think that's going to be really important.

19:54I mean what to you what were the early signs that the influencer space would become huge? I think there are a number of them I think one massive one was when we started to see the shift from the platform side so when they started focusing and rewarding the creators that really showed that this was being taken seriously.

20:16I brands moved those budgets around and they took the budgets from their tried and tested channels so things like tv even display paid social they've sacrificed those budgets and they've put it into influencers so we know that that it's working it's a huge thing exactly and from the early doors you could see the difference in the performance of the content from an individual who's saying something about your brand compared to a brand-led piece so i think looking at all of those it's very clear that there was going to be this shift towards it and it was here to stay. And how do you know that the creator that you're working with is going to be good for the brand?

20:58I mean, you hear horror stories of, you know, something happening with a creator or some really bad PR, really bad press, and it can drag down the brands. You know, it does affect the brands that they've worked with. It does. A lot of the bigger brands, they will have a vetting process, a very, very in-depth vetting process to check that they have never been involved in anything controversial. They've not said anything they shouldn't say. And I think that's the best you can do. Like if up to this point, they've kind of, they align with you, then you can kind of have to just hope that that's how they stay and they understand the damage it would do to them as well as you.

21:35So, and it's also, it's included in contracts, it's included in briefs, very clear how like do's and don'ts go into the briefs. Do not say this. Definitely don't say this. So it's very clear and laid out. And that's another reason to have an agency because actually do they read, do they actually understand what they're signing, what they're agreeing to? And have they really understood the brief? Yeah. So yes, we talked earlier about these like very loose creative briefs that they're given, but even within them, there are still some very strict do's and don'ts involved. For example, it's now incredibly important to make sure that you have the hashtag ad.

22:12You have to have that ad disclosure. If not, you will be in a whole world of trouble. As will the brand, there are massive fines related to that now. So it's absolutely crucial that people include that now. And again, that's in the brief. And where they... Do you think that makes it more inauthentic for people looking through? If people know that someone's been paid to do it. It is a tricky one and that is the problem. Yeah. But if you get caught having not done it, there's a number of high profile celebrities that have had problems with it. I think Molly May has had an issue with it. Multiple brands have been in the press talking about it and had issues with it.

22:50So you really, yes, it does make an impact. It's not really optional.

22:58So I think we've got some questions from the floor, Sarah. Great. We have Michelle first. What's one piece of advice you would give to a creator who is starting in the industry today? It's harder than it looks. I think that is the main piece of advice. You watch these when you're young. I know loads of people's kids are like, when I grow up, I want to be a YouTuber. I'm like, that's great. But it's actually incredibly hard. The amount of time that goes into it, the dedication, the effort, it's a lot. It's a lot harder than it looks. And it's not just creating that piece of content. You need that network, those communication skills.

23:33It would take you years to build your work. It does. Absolutely. You need that consistency. It's not something that happens overnight. It's hard. So think of it realistically. So you almost need to think before you even start, like, what is your goal? What do you want out of this? Absolutely. What's your plan? Who are you going to talk to and what are you going to tell them? Yeah. This almost brings in, you know, there's a lot of rejection. You can get people that don't agree with what you're saying. How are you going to handle that? You almost need to be very comfortable with yourself and understand that not everybody's going to agree with what you're saying.

24:08There will be that negativity always. And you'll have to deal with it on a day to day basis. And as I said, it's very draining to have to create this content all day, every day and post about it. So you at some point just need to look after yourself as well from a mental well-being standpoint to take a step back and remember what the real world looks like. not just the world through a camera lens and not just what people online are saying about you. It's like life is bigger than that. So I think it's something you have to really consider. And our next question is from Katie. So Sarah, could you outline the main differences between a content creator and an influencer and what brands are looking for when they collaborate with a content creator instead of an influencer?

24:49Sure. So we use the terms interchangeably, but they are different. So an influencer is a content creator, but a content creator isn't necessarily an influencer, if that makes sense. So we have UGC content, so user-generated content, which a brand will brief and pay for. And they're largely people who have very small followings, but make really nice content to a brief for a brand. And that brand will post that content on their social media. Whereas an influencer will take that brief, create that content and post it on their channel. So it's whether it's created and on the feed of the influencer and going out to their audience or whether it's more like authentic user content which is created and put on the feed of the brand.

25:34And we have Amy next. What's one trend that you think is overhyped and one you love? As a rule I struggle with trends. My problem with trends is brands that jump on them and shoehorn them into their content in a really inauthentic way. And they're just this forced moment on their social media, which just looks terrible. And you can see it a mile off that it's not realistic and it just doesn't work. So it's not a specific brand, a specific trend, sorry, but I dislike an inauthentic use of a trend. So what creates more engagement with an audience if I were an actor or a model posting on social media?

26:15Would it be the final posting the final edit of the shoot or posting funny behind the scenes footage? I think it depends what's being posted where. So I think the behind the scenes will be brilliant on engagement and that kind of element of it. But I think the final edit will also do incredibly well depending. So from a view perspective and what would be really nice is if you combine the two. so if you had the behind the scenes like the before and after almost like here's what we did during the day and here's how it turned out so i think combining the two you'd have a lovely mix of kind of like the views with that kind of engagement and the conversation around it as well emma authenticity within social media has become increasingly more important especially with the rise of misleading ai content how has this changed what brands post ai is a tricky one um it has a massive value to it, I think.

27:11And it can be used in a really great way. But I think brands have to be so careful about it. So whether they have a policy about how they disclose AI, I think is really important. So people are aware that that's not real, that's AI. But for example, we used it at L 'Oreal and we used a system where we did content flooding. So we took a piece of content and using AI, we mashed a couple of pieces of content up into 125 different pieces and different ways and different views. And we use them as different pieces of content. It's a bit like kind of A-B testing to see what was working. At scale. Yeah, massive scale.

27:46And you would never be able to do that if you were doing it yourself. You wouldn't, no one has the time to sit there and try and think of 125 different ways to get different pieces out of this one piece of content. But with AR, you can do that. And it will track it for you and it will create those pieces and then you can look in the platforms and see how it's performing in different ways. So it gives you opportunity to have that huge selection of content without having to be responsible for actually making it. So I think there's ways brands use it that works incredibly well. It's a way to cut time and opportunity to try these different things like with this content flooding.

28:21Brilliant. Hi, Sarah. I'm keen to know how much of a child's personality or daily life should be shared online to make them appealing to brands whilst maintaining safety and privacy. It's a tricky one. kids online it's it's got to come down to the parents what they're willing to share but for example at L 'Oreal we would not share any content that had children in it at all so even if the creator had kids in the background we had to get them to refilm the content we could not show children even if they said it was okay we wouldn't so I think it's it's down to what the brands want but it's very difficult to police and like as a parent I don't think I particularly want my children in my social media but then I'm not using them as well they're not models and they're not influencers in themselves so I think it's just very difficult to police and it's about what as a parent you are comfortable with I guess makes all the difference that's a good question Sarah obviously works on our junior division so it's a great question from yes I mean you know that there are children teenagers and parents that want to do it you know happy to do it kind of doing it in a safe space are doing it with the help of the parent and obviously there are respectable brands out there that that do need to get their content out to young people I mean what would your sort of advice be for them?

29:42There has to be clarity on the the values and what exactly you are allowing and what you are not allowing and what your kind of limits and boundaries are I suppose to make sure that the content that you are happy to see or happy to promote is correct. It's such a tricky world involving children.

30:07Jemima. So obviously there's going to be loads of people that do have the authenticity, the reliability and the character. But if you're starting out, do you think it's just luck if you become successful or do you think there's anything else to it? I think luck is sadly a massive part of it. And have you caught that niche, that moment, that hook just right? So I think forming into these little niche communities makes a massive difference. If you're doing something that's very general, that's harder to make a difference in than if you're talking to a niche community. I've got a friend, she's quite big online now, she's just crocheting.

30:46And it's like her life and her crochet projects. And as part of that, she now gets commissions to crochet dresses and jackets and all of these things. She sells her crochet patterns. And it's all come from this very niche thing that she picked up in COVID when she needed something to do from crochet. But she's talking to a community about crochet who are interested. She created this pattern, this amazing hat-scarf situation. And that's picked up and that's gone massively everywhere. So I think it's a bit of both. So yes, yeah, I think it's great to have a little bit of luck, but actually... But you've got to have a business brain.

31:25I mean, this is running a business. It's a business. It's not just posting the odd thing online. You've got to think about what your audience, your customers, what do they want? Are you giving them what they want? How are you growing your business? What's your plan? And what? Through the hard bits. Yeah. The times when you're not seeing that growth, that engagement, that interest, those views. Do you keep going or do you back off and do something else? So how much do you want it? What's your end goal? Daisy, at Sandra Reynolds, we talk a lot about long-term careers, not quick wins. How can creators build an online presence that supports longevity rather than chasing every trend?

32:02I think a lot of the time when creators first start off, and I touched on this earlier, this point of saying yes to everything. They say yes to everything and they don't really have this clear plan in terms of their partnerships. And building those long-term relationships into those partnerships makes a massive difference. So somebody seeing you post consistently about the same brand across a year, a year and a half, two years, three years, because you believe in the product, that is a massive difference to you just doing individual pieces. And so those trend moments where you're jumping on a trend because there was a new thing to do with a highlighter, which was fabulous that's great but actually last week you posted about a different highlighter so you can't feel the same about the same the different highlighters so as an example so having those longer term partnerships yeah brand partnerships that gives you that consistency and that authenticity because everyone knows that you love that brand so I think having those partnerships is really crucial to that longer term career Ione if you had to manage someone's Social media accounts for the day, who would it be and why?

33:05Nice. I love the social accounts of Aldi. Oh, yes. They are so funny. I'm not sure I'd want to be responsible for being that funny on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, I think if you guys haven't seen Aldi online, you need to go on. Oh, that's just hilarious. Yeah. They parody, they mock themselves. Their personality is amazing. Again, I don't think I'd want to be responsible for trying to find that personality and that voice. but they do it so well. I love it.

33:39Billy, what's your question? Going in with a more festive question in Theme of the Spirit. So what's the worst or funniest gift you've ever received? This is a rogue one. So my grandfather's sister's daughter, it's a long-winded resemblance there, she always buys really strange gifts. She genuinely bought me one year wooden painted duck. This is a rogue one. So my grandfather's sister's daughter, it's a long-winded resemblance there, she always buys really strange gifts. She genuinely bought me one year wooden painted duck. What do you do with a wooden painted duck? And what did you do with a wooden painted duck?

34:24I put it in a cupboard. Do you get it out when she comes round? No. I decided. But you still got it. Yeah, that's good. I think I'd have put it in my charity box by now. It's just such a very strange gift. Elf on the shelf content seems to dominate social media at Christmas. Do you have a naughty elf at home or do you avoid it like the plague? We do not do elf on the shelf. I have so much other things to do in my life that do not involve trying to make little footprints or really comical things with toasters, with elves halfway up trees. I can't do it. I've got friends that committed to it with their first child.

34:57they now have three children three different elves every day the regrets are huge it's one of those things you think's a good idea it doesn't you feel like you should because it's really cute with your first child and then it just makes christmas even more of a living hell it does it's so hard no 100 no no space for elf on the shelf in my house and lily real tree or fake one i would prefer a real tree but i can't cope with the needles so i have a fake tree and then are you an early shopper or a panic buyer? This year I've managed both actually. So I went really early and I was really proud of myself.

35:35I did my kids. I did my husband. Kind of felt like I was done. Small realization today. I've missed out. Family, brothers, grandparents. Haven't even thought about that yet. So everything else is coming from Amazon. Perfect. Probably panic bought maybe tomorrow. That was actually a good answer because I was going to say, are you the same with content planning? I think the way this week has gone, then yes, panic content planning is the way it's gone. Amazing.

36:08Sarah, thank you. That was a really insightful conversation and a brilliant breakdown of what's happening in the creator space. Have we learned a lot from Sarah today, team? and actually we're very lucky to have you bringing all that experience into SR as our new head of marketing and to launch our new content creators division in 2026

36:34so all that remains is for me to wish you and your families a very merry christmas and a fun-packed new year. Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas. I'm Tessa Dewing, recording for The Business of Modelling. See you next time.