Xenia Kontou, Founder & MD of Agencia Model Management

0:00Welcome to the Business of Modelling. I'm Tessa Dewing, Managing Director of Sandra Reynolds, a commercial model agency established in 1975. In this podcast, I sit down with models, agents, brands, creatives and industry experts to talk about their careers, their experiences and the future of our industry. Today, we're recording in Athens with Xenia Kontu, founder and managing director of Agencia Model Management. Xenia started working as a model at 17 before moving to the agency side. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about Xenia's journey from model to agency founder. Welcome to the podcast, Xenia.

0:47Thank you for inviting me. Where did you grow up? I was born in Athens while I was a child and during the school times. I had no idea that my future is going to be in this kind of business. Actually, I was a girl that I was playing basketball because I was too tall. But a friend of mine sent some pictures of mine to an agency that doesn't exist anymore. And they called me and I went there. I started doing some test shootings in order to make a book. So before that, you had no desire to be a model or you didn't know what being a model was. I had no idea that I had a look that could fit in this industry.

1:40I was a girl that was, I was inside of a base of basketball places and fields that I was playing with friends. wearing athletic clothes 24-7. I didn't have any idea that this might be something that would be my future. No, not at all. So you went in to see your agency for the first time. Do you remember that? Yes, I remember. I was 17. It was an agency in the center of Athens in an area called Kolonike. At that time, all the agencies were at this specific area. The name was Crayon. They asked me if I'm interested in doing some test shootings. I had no idea then what is a test shooting, of course.

2:30And they explained I did some stuff. I did a book. I did some jobs in the beginning. I was too tall. Do you remember your first job? A fashion show. It was a fashion show. I was terrified. Did you have training beforehand? Nothing. They just put you on the catwalk? Nothing, nothing, nothing. Just put me on high heel shoes. I wore some clothes and they say go out. And of course then there was no social media. So you can't go online and look at how other models walk and things. You had just... No idea. No idea. No idea. Nothing. My mother used to have a job that she was making things with her hands.

3:16some tutoriales with her hands. And once she hired one model of that, and I went to see this presentant, that was the first thing for me to see how a model works. Only that, nothing else. When you first started modeling, what kind of jobs were there in Greece? There were fashion shows. There were TV commercials, which I did one. There were magazines. We had magazines a lot, actually. I didn't do magazines, to tell you the truth. Catalogs. There were catalogs, editorials, fashion shows, mostly that. As I remember afterwards being inside an agency working as a booker, Because my modeling experience didn't last a long time because I realized that I didn't like this thing.

4:19I didn't like going to castings, waiting to see if they pick me up, if I'm more beautiful than someone else. For my personality and character at that time, even now, of course, I didn't like that. No. I didn't like that. Plus the fact that I wasn't a girl, that I was skinny by myself. I had to be on diet all of my life if I wanted to. Because you were very tall. You were very athletic. Yes. And I had to be on diet, to be able to stay in a specific size, measurements that they wanted. No, I didn't. It wasn't comfortable for you. No. And immediately I asked from my agency at that time to work inside.

5:15And they refused that. I don't know why. But then they called me back. And I sent some letters because I liked the booker. I had a booker and I liked that. How she was talking to me, what she was doing. You were interested in. Very much. What they were doing behind the scenes. Yes. And I sent a letter to some agencies then and asking to work inside an agency without payment. Yeah, to get the experience. Just to get the experience. And one agency, of course, took me and put me to work in the accounting department, which I did that for two years. I was asking to put me outside, but the owner at that time didn't.

6:06But actually, that was, looking back, that must have been really good experience for you to have done that. When you start your own agency to know. Yes, yes. Actually, these two years of working there, it was, and actually this agency was very big at that time. And you got to understand all how commission and invoicing and everything worked. Yes, it was really helpful for my future. Where did you go after that? Since they didn't move me to the booking department, which actually that was the reason that I went there, I sent again letters to agencies and I sent to the agency that I was working with at that time.

6:51And they called me and I went there. And they gave me the fashion show department to work with clients that they were doing shows, fashion shows, which I did well. I really liked very much what I was doing there. And the experience that you'd had doing fashion shows as a model, plus your experience doing accounting for the other agency must have made you better. a good booker because you understood the whole process. Yes, the casting process a lot. The walking process also. I was talking to the girls how they should walk. And then I had a very good eye on the photography. I was looking for photographers at that time that I really believed that they were very, very good for the fashion industry and asked them to make photo test shootings for our models.

7:59So you were contacting the new photographers that you thought had potential to link them up with the new face models. Which actually with some of them, we are still working together because they are still in the business and they're doing great. and when I talk to them sometimes on the phone, I always remember the 1992 to 1994. That was the time I stayed in this agency when we started talking together at this period of time when they were starting and I was starting too. And that must have just been about the time that websites and things were coming in. So before that, degrees? No, no. Oh, so you're, okay, because I remember the mid-90s being when we started having to have websites.

8:50And, okay. Not here. Okay. So you were still printing index cards and... When I moved to the other agency after that, and actually I stayed there for 14, 15 years, I stayed there. We were working in a circle table. If you remember the thing that they were going around and putting out the cards of the models that we were putting the options in the booking up there. This stayed for many years. I was working with this way for many, many, many years. And then we took one computer on the agency, which I was using it mostly. and if someone else from the booking wanted to do something with a computer, they were telling me, can you move aside for a while so we can write some things on the computer?

9:47Then we took a second computer and then the internet came. Very slow. Very slow. Very, very. Especially with like we are doing images all the time. It took ages, didn't it, for them to download. What I remember from that period was the circle. that I'm saying. Yeah. The Polaroids that we were having with the Polaroid machine. The contacts that we had from the photographers, billions of contacts, and we were looking with the less... Marking them. Marking this one and this one and this one. The castings that we were sending them by fax to the models. Yes. And pictures. We were sending pictures to clients by fax.

10:32And they were booking from... And we had couriers. We had two or three couriers working with us at the agency because they were taking the books of the models because we had two books. One for the model to carry on with them and the one, the same book that we had at the agency in case a client comes from the agency to be able to see the books. and we were sending the books with the bikes to the clients. I mean, 10, 15 books. The courier was sending them and then we were taking them back. And then you had to pick them up, take them back, send them to someone else. The courier probably was most important than the booker at that time.

11:11Maybe, yes.

11:19And what kind of jobs do you remember at that time? Very good jobs. Actually, at that period, we were very, very famous in Greece for the magazines. We had all the big names of magazines. I really don't know how such a small market like Greece at that time had all the names. L 'Officiel, Vogue, Elle, Marie Claire, Madame Figaro. Did booking come naturally to you then once you got into that role? did you think yeah this is what I really love doing? I had a big trust from the owner of that agency that I was working with. She trusts me a lot. Are the agencies still going? Yes of course and it's one of the biggest agencies.

12:09Which one is it? It's Ace. Oh yes. I was working there for 15 years. So the owner trusted me a lot. So one day she said to me, saying, except of the booking, what about doing some scouting also, since you like what you're doing? He said, well, do you mean that I will travel too? And said, yes, you can travel. So I started doing travels and scouting trips around the world. I've been everywhere except Asia, a lot of trips per year. Actually, I was scouting the models that I was working for them when they were coming to Greece. So I was doing scouting and booking together. That's nice. So actually they were meeting you in their home country and then when they arrive in Greece, you were there for them as well.

13:00And what do you think makes a good agent? First of all, a good agent must be the one who understands if a model is going to do well or not, to see things on that model who can create a career or not. Also, a very good agent is the one who has a very, very good connection with the clients because the agent is not only the one who makes models in our market. The agent also is the one who talks with the clients about the models. So the relationship, the way of making the service to the client also makes a good agent. A good agent also is someone who is a mother or father, sister, brother, boyfriend, girlfriend, psychotherapist, and many, many other things to the models.

14:02Always with a limit. I always say to the people that I have at the agency that don't overstep the limits because this is going to make you a bad agent. Because it still has to be professional. Of course it has to be a limit. If you want to be a good agent, you need to understand where you stop. And what about scout? What makes a good scout? You need to know your market. You need to know your market. The market that you work for. not what internationally works. If you work in Greece, you have to understand which models are working well here, what the photographers like, what the photographers, they are in actually in most of the jobs, what they book, what they like in the characteristics of models.

14:59you have to have a very good eye. You may see someone in the street walking and someone who doesn't do the job might say nothing about the person that passes by, but someone who knows might see something that says, oh, let me talk to you. Let me give you my card. Because the good models are not the ones with lots of makeup on. Oh, no. Of course not. You know, they're the ones that you can't really tell. And I also think they're not the ones that think they can be models. They're the ones that haven't really thought about it, that don't think that they can be. Exactly. These people are working in the supermarkets.

15:44They are working in bars. They're working in other kinds of businesses. Definitely. They don't have social media that post 100 pictures per day. Exactly. These are the ones that we should look for.

16:11Talk us through the decision to open your own agency. So you'd been at Ace for 15 years. Again, I had no plan to open my own agency. The thing is that I moved from the house that I was living at that time and I went somewhere else very far away in order to decide what I wanted to do. Because I didn't know what I was going to do after that, after this experience. In the meantime, models followed me. and they said, Ksenia, until you decide what you want to do, can you do some stuff for us? That was a period of the economic crisis in Greece. Right, I remember, yeah. That was exactly the period. So that's why I didn't know what to do because it was the worst period for someone to do a business.

17:11How did that affect the creative industries here? It was nuts. Yeah. Very, very difficult for everybody. That period for Greece was really, really bad for all the businesses, for everyone. So it wasn't the right time to open a business. And I was really terrified with the idea. So these models that they followed me, they were models that they were not working in the Greek market. There were more international models, very good models at that time. With a computer in the house that I decided to move, I could do easily there. I could keep their schedule and work for them and have my commission also.

17:59So you started really becoming a mother agent. Yes, by having, what, 10 models? Eight, 10, something like this. Working from home with a computer, with a laptop. internationally. The clients in Greece, everybody knew me. And you knew all the agencies internationally. I knew all the agencies. I knew personally also people from agencies around the world. The Greek market, the clients that they were still working knew who I was. And sometimes they were calling me for advices because I was talking with them for 20 years on the phone. So they were calling me about prices. What would you give for this job, for this client, blah, blah, blah.

18:50So more models came with me, still living on the countryside with a laptop. But after a while, a friend of mine, two very good friends of mine, insisted very, very much to open my own agency. And I said, with what money am I going to do that? I don't have money to open an agency. So this friend said to me, come here. You have an accounting. She had her own company. You have a computer. You have a place for your interviews, for your appointments. So she had an office that you could choose. Yes. And another friend of mine said, if you need money, I'm here. So one thing brought the other. In two years, I had my own agency.

19:39I came back to Athens. I rent an apartment in Athens because until the time I was sleeping with two friends. I was saying that whatever comes, I am happy because of the time. And starting an agency sounds exciting, but the reality can be very different. What were your biggest challenges? Economic. I think that the biggest challenges at that time that I opened my own agency was only economic. I had the name, I had the experience, people helping me in all the way. But Greece generally suffered from the economic crisis for many years. So that period that I opened my own agency wasn't good. This episode is brought to you by Digital Twinsets.

20:33Digital Twinsets provides professionally created digital asset packs of real models and actors for responsible AI-assisted production. Every twin set represents a real person created with consent, approval and control over how their likeness is used. To find out more, head over to Instagram at Digital Twin Set. What would you say you're most proud of from Agencia's journey so far? Having the agency by myself afterwards. So you started with a partner. Yes. And then I stayed by myself. I was very afraid, to be honest, what the future would be. I had also very difficult times regarding the models that they were moving all the time, waiting when the market will pick up again in order to start bringing international models.

21:38that I always worked with back into Greece. Yes. Yeah. So actually in 2015, the market started picking up and I started bringing models from outside. I did some trips. I started having assistants. I brought another booker, another scouter, and starting slowly again, working in a very, very small agency of 40 square meters, three people. And I didn't have any visions. I didn't have any goals. I didn't have any targets, nothing. I was going every single day at the office, waiting to see what would happen on that day. Didn't expect anything. didn't wait for anything, didn't focus on anything. Every day was a new experience for me.

22:42And every single day were giving me ideas of how I'm going to work the following day, and then the following day, and then the following day. And tell us about the different boards you represent, because you're not just editorial models, are you? No, no, no. Actually, editorial agency will become much, much later. We started mostly as a commercial agency. Yeah. Then people were coming to the agency only for commercials. So I started doing the people division slowly, slowly. Then the four models or five models that I was bringing from outside, from outside Greece, they become eight, nine, ten. So in the ten models, you didn't have only commercial girls.

23:30You started having also fashion girls. The bad thing after the crisis was, for me, two things. The budgets went down. I mean, very, very down. The prices were very low. And also, we lost the magazines. The publications closed because of the economic crisis. So we had around 10, 15 names, international names, and we had two or three at that time. So the fashion models didn't have any... So for the work that there was, there was then a lot more competition as well. Exactly. And the fashion models didn't want to come in the market because they knew that the money weren't good. So since they didn't have the magazines, they didn't want to come.

24:37So I continue working with commercial models because the commercial work was getting up, up, up a lot. For people outside Greece who don't understand the market, now how would you describe it? Is it a mix of fashion, commercial, lifestyle? It's a mix. It's very busy. There's a lot of work here. So has it picked back up? To be honest, it's not something that I usually talk about, but I think that I'm the one who increased the prices. My agency. Tell us more about that.

25:46that it's, I couldn't even imagine. Why a girl to do that? So I was starting saying to the clients, I'm sorry, but I'm not working with this price. I'm working with this price. Of course, in the beginning, I lost a lot of jobs. They were going to other agencies. But you stuck for... And the bookers that I had at the office, they were saying, listen, we are losing jobs. And I said, only if we lose jobs, we have the opportunity and the chance to understand that these prices are not acceptable. So I think that I lost a lot of jobs. I think that the clients were very, and actually I heard that a lot, that the agency is asking a lot of money and blah, blah, blah.

26:38I knew that this was happening, but for one reason I said, no, we will stay. I prefer to lose jobs. I'm not sending models for this price. So after a couple of years, these actually stayed and the other agencies followed. I think that they followed. And two years after, I increased them a little bit more. So we are not in the best level of budgets in the Greek market, of course. I see what budget has Milan, for example, from the models that I sent there. I don't think that we are very far away. They are a bit better than us, but not much, much better. But we're in the UK, you know, our budgets are lower and lower and lower.

27:34I mean, you know, we don't get the budgets that we used to get in the 80s and the 90s. Of course, of course. And I'm really surprised with the German market. In my time, when I was working as a booker, sending models in Germany for one catalogue. Catalogue, yeah. With 2 ,000 euros, 3 ,000 euros for one simple catalogue, Greek models made a fortune from the German market. And now we have better budgets than Germany. We bring direct bookings. We do direct bookings from models abroad with two times better budgets than the direct bookings they ask our models from the German agency.

28:26What kind of model tends to do well in Greece? Are clients looking for sort of really polished, experienced faces or more sort of natural and relatable? First of all, the Greek market doesn't work with new faces. They want, the clients want models that they have an experience. So a good strong book. Not the book. Not exactly the book, but be able to make the job, to go in a studio and to do a shooting for any kind of job. And the photographers and the clients will be happy with the model by their expressions, their posings, their behavior, of course. anything that makes the photographer's life easier so a new face won't do very well here so i don't know what other agencies might do but i don't bring girls that they are not on the night 18 not 20 my best age for me for models here it's 20 to 28 not less not very young yeah also the models that they work very, very well here.

29:39It's simple what I'm going to say. Be beautiful. Just beautiful. Very good body, good skin, good hair and of course being able to win on the casting, to be friendly, to be clean, to be happy, to have a personality that actually gives the opportunity to the client to say, I want you. And do Greek brands tend to book local models or international models? International models. Do they like international? I think that it's 80 % international models and 20 % local models. And what about international brands? Do you get a lot of those coming in now to shoot in Greece? I am very happy for that. Yes, a lot.

30:39It has been after COVID, I would say. After Dior, you know, Christian Dior, yes. They came here, I think, in 2021. They did a huge fashion show in Olympic Stadium and also the campaign on an island called Milos. and this was a huge spread. The Greek atmosphere, air, location, light. So that promoted Greece. I think yes, I think yes. Other brands then wanted to come here. I think that after Dior, the thing changed here. And is it easy for brands to come and shoot here? No, I wouldn't say that it's easy because there is a lot of things that has to be prepared much before they come, especially if they go to islands, they have to see the boats, the transportation, if they need to go somewhere else before the timelines, the hotels.

31:48I think that the best thing would be to talk with a Greek production company, which they have done this millions of times. Not only for foreign clients, but for the local clients. They are doing that every single day. So they have the experience. And the contacts. And the contacts and everything. and we have very good scouter locations here, so they have a file with the best places for shootings. And they should contact a Greek production company that they can organize everything instead of trying to do them from outside Greece without having the knowledge. I think people do. I think that's a mistake.

32:34I think people try to save money by doing it themselves, but you're not. It's not because... No, at the end you don't save money. No, I agree. And maybe your work at the end is not going to be the one that you wished to be. For models that want to work in Greece, is it easy for them to work here? Do you bring them in on direct bookings or do you bring them on stay? We bring them on stay and direct bookings. So you might start them on stay to see how they... We do both. Yeah. We do both. Yes. Do you have model apartments? I do have model apartments. I have a lot, actually. Yeah, okay. And where do a lot of your, most of your models come from, the international models?

33:21Well, in the past, there were a lot of models coming from Russia, Ukraine and the East Bloc. But after the wars, these people, unfortunately, they stopped. But we mostly bring people from Europe. Yeah, because it's easy. Easy, quicker, faster, easier generally. And economic wise also. And what should models know before coming to Athens to work? It depends on the season they come. Yeah. Well, there must be good and bad seasons. Of course. Yeah, of course. They should know if it's summer that it's going to be very hot. And they have to be prepared about that. because I have seen models coming in and leave the next day.

34:09Surely this has happened. It was summer and she was from Scandinavia and she comes down and it was 35 degrees and said, sorry, guys, I can't be here. So she left. So which months are busiest here? May, June, July, September, October. A lot. Do you shut down for August or do you? We sat only for two weeks. Right. Nobody works in August. No. How do you manage if they're shooting in, you know, in the summer here? How do you manage the models in heat? They just need to be prepared. And this is something that starts from the client and the creative team. Yeah. They decide for a date. They look the weather.

34:58They see how it's going to be. If it's going to be very, very hot and they cannot cancel, because sometimes they cancel if it's very, very hot, but if they cannot cancel, they start very, very early in the morning. Because also the light is very, very much, much better early in the morning. So they start early in order not to be so hot. sometimes they stop when the heat is very high between 12 to 4 and then they continue after but if they cannot cancel they do something like this

35:40So tell me about some of the campaigns and projects that you're really proud of With Greek brands we don't have as many brands that they are famous internationally. But, you know, everybody knows Koresh. We work a lot for the campaigns of Koresh. And Apivita, also everybody knows Apivita. We do a lot of campaigns with them. My biggest, of course, goal and something that I'm really proud of is that it's our relationship with the Greek Vogue that I have been working with them for every single issue, two years on the row. And of course, I'm still working with them a lot. Did the magazines that left, have they come back?

36:31Except Vogue, that left and came back. Yeah. The ones that are still here, they never left. But we don't have new. Because, of course, you understand with the social media and the internet, I don't think that we're going to have people to go and buy magazines. You can see everything online. So sad. So sad. I'm very sad about that, actually. Me too. Me too. Going back, so what do you look for now when you're scouting a new face? two things. The one is to find a model that is going to be, who is going to do a really good job internationally. And the other thing is to find someone who doesn't need to be outside Greece, but he can do, or he or she can do very well in this market.

37:26These are two different things. It's not very common to do both. For example, Vassilis Lelidis that you know and you asked me about him. Yeah. Vassilis is a boy that can do very, very well outside Greece, but not very easily to do things in this market here because our market is a very commercial market. Yeah. Yeah. The look of Vasilis, it's not something that works very much here. So Vasilis Lelidis, he's a model that is doing very, very well internationally at the moment that you look after, that you scouted. How did you find him? A model of ours, who she is from Crete. Also Vasilis is from Crete.

38:19And one summer, I think, this girl of ours... saw him. She went to him and said, listen, do you think, have you ever thought about that? And he said, no. And said, would you like me to talk with my agency? Because I really think that... So he liked the idea and he sent us the pictures. I saw the pictures and I said to the girl, I need his phone to bring him by plane in Athens now. So you straight away saw him? Yes. And so we brought him in Athens immediately. Yeah. And I really was very happy when I saw him live, because it's different from the pictures. Yeah. And I said, OK, this is something we should talk seriously here.

39:11And then what was he like when you first met him, when he first came in? Was he confident or did he need to be developed? He was only 18 years old, just finished school at that time. He had no idea of the business. He had confidence. Yes, he did. He was making a lot of questions. He looked really interesting of what I was telling him. He said, yes, I'm in. Let's do that. I told him that if you really want to do that seriously, you're going to do exactly what we say. Whatever you think about doing by yourself, even one picture that you want to post on Instagram, we need to know that. I said, yes, I will do that.

40:03And he did that. And he did that. So we started with some pictures at the beginning. We put him in some jobs at the beginning in order to be able to understand what is this job for, how to be in front of a camera, how to treat with the client, how to pose, how, you know, in order to have the idea of what this business is doing. And you knew that he was for the international market, not for the green market. Especially Paris. Yeah, okay. Especially Paris. Yeah. I didn't check with other markets. So a very, very big agency in Paris. So was a very big interest for him. He asked us to fly him in Paris without signing.

40:56They wanted to see him live first. So I went with him at this trip and his booker, the three of us, went there together. The agency there really liked him when they saw him live. We signed with this agency and then we waited for the Passion Week. And he has just closed the Tom Ford Autumn Winter 2026 show. Yes. And previously Sakai, Van Nauten and Ypsiloran. He's the first Greek model that does Ypsiloran. Amazing. Congratulations. And what are your plans for him? Has he just been to Paris at the moment? He just came in. He just came back. The plan is to speak with the agency in Paris because we have a very strong connection and relationship about the planning of him.

41:58So we waited until the end of this week, actually, to be free from the shows. So to talk to him, to talk to them and see what we're going to do for the next steps. Yeah. And what makes him stand out as a model? I think that he fits a lot in the business as the business is now. If this boy was in the business between 20 to 25 years ago, he wouldn't work. He's just got a look that's just right for now. He has the right look for the right time. Yeah. This is the best thing on him right now. Plus, of course, that he has an amazing face. And when you're scouting, has Instagram changed the way that you discover talent?

42:47To be honest, social media, it's a field that I don't like. Personally, and not personally. I don't like the people I see there. The real scouting, you do it outside the street. And actually, three weeks ago, I found a boy that I said, wow. Just walking down the street. Yeah. Yeah. And I saw him moving and said, oh, my God, what's that? What's that? And of course, I talked to him about who I am, what I do. He had no idea. And he said, do you want to talk to more personally about what I do and what I think you should do? He said, yes, I'm interested. So anyway, he came in the agency, we signed, and I'm really excited about this new boy now that I'm going to work with.

43:50When you're advising models, do you advise them to stay in education? Of course. It's very important. Do you think they need to have something as well as modelling? The models are more attractive to the clients when they are not doing only modeling. The models should focus also in other things that has nothing to do with the modeling industry, with their studies, with another business maybe, another creative things that they find very interesting and they want to build something else. And by this, I think that they are more attractive to the clients. They like that they are not waiting in their room for the phone to ring and tell them you have a job.

44:45That don't think that since we say that we want to start with you, first of all, you start doing jobs in a week from now. Or you are going to make money that you don't need to do anything else. We say all these things from the beginning. and the models that they understand that and they look at something else for their future, but also in the same time they do modeling, means that they have a good brain. They have a good mind. And they're interested as well to clients. And they are interested. Even if they do a shooting, the clients can have different conversations with them. And what has running your own agency taught you?

45:35Do you like that pressure? No. No.

45:41No, no, because a stupid idea that I had when I made my own agency is that I'm going to have more relaxed time, no timelines. I will be able to leave for a week to go for holidays. This was the idea that instead of working for someone else, that I have to be there from Monday to Friday 10 hours a day. But in reality, you are now there seven days a week, 24 hours a day. Exactly. Exactly. And the pressure is mostly economic-wise, in order to be inside on timelines, to be okay with your obligations and your responsibilities. Also, the team is a very, very stressful and difficult thing. How many people are you now?

46:37Twelve. There's always a drama somewhere. Of course there's a drama. Yeah, I find that managing people is the best and the hardest part. I don't see the best anywhere. I don't see the best anywhere. I see the heart. Yeah. Trying to keep everybody happy. That's impossible to keep everybody happy. Yeah. And I think you have to understand that and be okay with that. Yes. Say, do you know, well, I'm doing my best. Yes. Yes. And to have a peace in the office. Yeah. In order for the work to be able to proceed. Peace. The peace, it's not something that I see every day. Okay. Do you all work in the office or do some of you work from home?

47:28We are all at the office. Yeah, we are the same. I think it's important. I think it's important too because the people there, sometimes they say, why don't we work from home? Yeah. Since our job is on a computer, I said it's impossible because this job is interactive. There are things that are happening the same time, the same moment. Problems, difficulties. You need to be able to communicate the same moment and not to call you and if you pick up until we know. And have Zoom calls. No, I hate those. We did that in COVID. COVID, yeah, of course. Which didn't work. Horrible. I agree. Horrible. What do you think the biggest pressures models face today are?

48:17AI. It's very sad the fact that the real thing and the real eye is going to be replaced by something which is fake. Yeah. But one photographer, a really good photographer that we have here, told me one day something really nice. And he said that, listen, Xenia, as a photographer, when I shoot a model, the best thing in the picture is the look, the eye, the look, how she looks at me. I take the picture at the moment that I see the best look. Nobody can do that in AI. You cannot have the look. The look in AI models is empty. There's nothing. Yes. So this will never die. This will never disappear.

49:17So even if they use that, even if they do that for some time, they will come back again to the real. believe that some regular models that they do, that the regular small jobs might be replaced from AI. But the ones that they have something that nobody can find on the computer will never, never die.

49:52Do you think models need to build their brand on social media now? The bad thing with the social media is everybody thinks it's a model. Yes. The influencers, because they make money from the social media and because they have 10, 20, 15, 50 ,000 followers, they say, oh, I can do modeling. I'm beautiful. They like me. They follow me. They pay to do some branding thing on my profile. But it's a very different job. They think that they can do modeling, but it has nothing to do. Yeah. Nothing to do. This is the second bad thing that happens. And the other bad thing that happens with social media is that the clients contact directly the models.

50:35They send messages there. To see if they can get them cheap or for free. Even if they see that they have an agency in their profile, they don't contact the agency. They go straight to them. And that's where we have to educate the model. We have to educate the models. But this happens so much that it's impossible to be able to avoid that. We have to have models that they understand the dangerous stuff that are behind that. It's difficult as an agency because if you say, oh, don't do something directly, they think that you're just interested in the money that you might be losing. And it's like it's bigger than that.

51:16It's not about that. It's about making sure that they're in control of where their image goes. Also, you know, it's damaging if models are just doing things for free or for less money. It's damaging for the whole industry. That happens because of the existence of the social media. Before that, we didn't have these problems. No. And even if we educate the model, even if we talk to them, there will always be models that they will accept offers from the social media and clients that they will ask models from the social media. This will never change. No. Unfortunately. And looking back, what are you most proud of?

51:58The fact that my agency has been established very, very well in this market and outside this market also. They know our agency abroad very, very well. And is there a model's career that has particularly stayed with you? Who are you most proud of representing? Yes. There is one guy that I found him when he was 21 years old. He's still a model of mine today, which he's 46 now. He has done a huge career around the world. He has been the biggest name around the world. And not only in Greece, I mean everywhere. What's his name? Marios Lekas. He has been in the fifth number, five in the models.com as a model.

52:58They were calling him the Greek God. He did all the shows. He did all the campaigns. He did a huge career. Huge, huge, huge. And I found him on a beach. And you still represent him today? Yes, we are together from that day until today. And of course, he's a very good friend of mine. And what do you know now that you wish you'd known when you first started? Oh, so many. See, the list is huge. I wish I was more patient, more diplomatic, which I haven't been, less emotional to some relationships that I had in the past, which actually put me back in things that I wanted to do and I didn't do. I always find one of the things I've learned is not to react.

54:01I think if something happens, you want to kind of react. And I've learned, no, I'm going to wait for half a day or because you don't feel differently afterwards. What you're saying right now, for me, it's huge. And I am jealous of that, what you're saying that you do. I have a book. I don't do that. I have a book because something will happen and it will really annoy me. Someone will do something and I'll be really annoyed or really. And instead of just reacting, I write it in my book. And then if I still feel the same way the next day, then I'll go and deal with it. Nine out of those 10 things I cross out the next day because they don't bother me when I read them back.

54:46Okay. And it's really helped me because I know I've reacted to some things. and then I've thought afterwards, oh, I shouldn't have done that or, you know, I'm making too much out of something small. Totally understand what you're saying. Very good idea, actually. Because sometimes things don't really matter, but at the time you really think they do. Yes, exactly. Well, I'm really grateful and privileged to have heard your story. I've loved it and I can see and hear, you know, how proud you are of Greece and, you know, what a beautiful country it is. You know, if you're thinking about locations for your campaign or your brand shoot, look at Greece because it really is absolutely beautiful.

55:29And there's so much here. Thank you so much. Thank you, too. Thank you very, very much, too. That brings us to the end of another episode of The Business of Modelling. If you enjoyed this, please subscribe, share and leave us a review. it really helps us reach more people who want to understand the many different sides to the modeling industry. Until next time, thank you for joining me on the Business of Modeling.