It's a bull market and nobody drinks anymore.

8:51Downtown Josh Brown:What do you think about minority stakes? Because that's the new thing.

8:54Michael Batnick:So I didn't realize Kushner owned a piece of the Grizzlies.

8:56Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah.

8:57Michael Batnick:He had to sell that to buy... He was a 5 % owner in the Miami Heat. Obviously, he has to sell that.

9:01Downtown Josh Brown:Don't you remember we had David Adelman here who explained Michael Rubin had to sell his piece of the Sixers and that's how he was able to buy that piece? Like, that's... Because if you want to get into gambling, for example, or if you want, or if another franchise opportunity comes along in the same league, you got to sell.

9:21Michael Batnick:But if, if this is just about flipping to make a couple, a hundred million dollars in a few years or whatever, that's going to be the, it's not going to be good for the fans. If they are purely looking at this as how do I make more money? There's going to be some nasty side effects.

9:34Downtown Josh Brown:The private equity guys are all in. They, if they put the word sports on the wrapper of a fund. It sells out. Is it Future Sports? What's this company that's going to be there to help hedge on sporting events and stuff like that? Not a prediction market. Hedge on the value of a team? It's something I'm probably butchering this. Is there an ETF for that? There will be. I took the pitch from Eldridge which is Todd Bowley's firm. It's private equity. He's made a ton of money at like Guggenheim or whatever and they own the Dodgers. Right. And not flipping. But like they're out with a deck and they're going to buy Indian Premier League cricket teams.

10:12Downtown Josh Brown:They're going to buy soccer teams. They're going to buy... By the way, it's as big as the NFL. What is? No doubt. Indian Premier League cricket in the other half of the world that we don't live in is as big as the NFL. Pillow Fighting Championship? ESPN? All right. You're out of here. Your son's taking a nap on this bench,

10:29Michael Batnick:It's a great story.

10:31Downtown Josh Brown:He's posing. Have you ever seen it? He's posing. Justin, what are you doing? He's like a... I'm telling you, this kid's been laying down He laid down on the train on the way in. He laid down in my office just now. He's laying down in the studio. What did you think of the stock exchange? Did you have a Baconator? No, I took him to Keynes.

10:51Michael Batnick:First time? Not right. Tell him what you said.

10:55Downtown Josh Brown:Tell him what you said in the stock exchange. Why isn't there a couch? Shut up. I swear to God. Someone tell Jay Woods. He's like a stuffed animal. This kid. Unbelievable. All right, let's do the show. Let's start it up. Compound and friends. Episode 255.

11:23Michael Batnick:This podcast is brought to you by VanEck. Look, we're in an era of rising debt, deglobalization,

11:30Downtown Josh Brown:and a massive physical buildup to power the AI economy. No, you look. That means more demand for energy, raw materials, and infrastructure. Historically, that's been a really strong backdrop for real assets. And VanEck has an ETF for that. It's called RACS, the VanEck Real Assets ETF. It's actively managed and shifts exposure across gold, energy, infrastructure, and natural resources based on what the macro environment is actually doing, not just what it's done in the past.

12:01Michael Batnick:Rax is your one-stop shop for real assets. Head over to VanEck.com slash R-A-A-X compound to learn more. That's VanEck.com slash R-A-A-X compound. Oh my God.

12:18Downtown Josh Brown:255? Man, what a treat you guys are in for. Returning champion Todd's own in the house. You could not be more excited. Todd is one of the best. When my inbox says Strategas, Todd Sohn, I'm reading it. I know you feel the same way. And a lot of Todd's charts make their way into compound content because we're such huge fans. Todd Sohn is the chief ETF strategist for Baird Strategas and Strategas Asset Management. He leads Strategas' ETF research examining industry trends and how investor flows fit with or against the consensus. He is also the author of Strategas Asset Management's monthly ETF field book, a compendium of charts focusing on the growth of the ETF industry.

13:12Downtown Josh Brown:Thank you so much for coming by. Thank you. We're so excited for this episode. This is the field book. What is that? Give it here. Why is it a field book and not a field guide? Because other folks use the word guide. Guide to the market to take it. There's no such thing as a field book. We just called it field book. We did a market research. Do you know what a field guide is? How to get through the forest. If you're a bird watcher, as Duncan is, you would go out into the field with your equipment and a book, and the book's a field book. This is the book. You go out in the field with this book on ETFs.

13:44Downtown Josh Brown:Are there birds in here? No. How often are you producing these? This is monthly. Wow. And this goes out to Strategas clients, investors in Strategas ETS, our products. And it's meant to just be everything you want to know about the ETF world. I love it. Field guide. Field guide. I love it. Field guide. Is it available as a trapper keeper? Yes. All right. Awesome. All right. So we were talking as we walked into the studio. I've never seen this many ETFs launched. It's nuts. Okay. Busier than ever. But say more, besides it being nuts, because everybody seems to be making money. If you launch a fund and it's a dud, it's almost like, who cares?

14:24Downtown Josh Brown:Move on. Just close it. We'll launch 10 at once. Okay. But it's not haphazard. It doesn't feel that way. It feels that different issuers have different game plans for what parts of the map they want to cover. And to me, it just, it feels, I've seen spaghetti cannon moments with ETFs. I was around 2010, 2011 when they were launching all the commodity ones and all the, and there was agriculture, a lot of nonsense. The ones that are coming along, I'm not saying they're all good, but there are some really great ideas coming, coming out. It's about, uh, if you're an issuer, what's your brand, what's your target market and what's hot, right?

15:05If your brand is you're a legacy fund manager from the 1940s, you're coming out with just core stuff, right? Plain vanilla. Is there an audience for that though? They go for the advisors. You know, maybe there's always advisors who are looking for something different. Dimensional and Avantis. Dimensional, Avantis, right? Systematic.

15:20Downtown Josh Brown:So you can still do something vanilla and hit pay dirt. It's going to be more of a grind though. Okay. You're not going to wake up and it's like, oh my God, I have a billion of my assets overnight. The way that happens is only one way really. Yeah. Either an extremely high income or a theme. Theme. DRAM. ETF of the year. That's the best example. Oh, it's ETF of the decade. Yeah. Thematic. That's the way to wake up with a billion dollars in your account. What a launch.

15:46Michael Batnick:Holy shit. Yeah. The Roundup guys are great. And they're doing excellent work now with photonics. They have a big one now. It's probably 200 million, not billion, 200 million. What is a photonic? I don't even know what a photonic is. Okay. It's another layer of the AI. It's a laser. Have you heard of their Halo ETF? Of course I know the Halo ETF. But the problem is I keep typing in the ticker Halo, which is a pharmaceutical company. It's Loja?

16:09Downtown Josh Brown:You know. Mahalo. They really need to buy… I think Halo is a pharmaceutical company's ticker. So I keep typing that in.

16:16Michael Batnick:Just buy them and spin them out.

16:17Downtown Josh Brown:It's like Halo Therapeutics or something. Halo something. All right. So will they have LOHA, which is not even Halo backwards, really? LO… It's just sort of some of the same letters. LOOPs. I can't even pronounce it. I didn't come up with the ticker. It's okay. But I do like the approach. And I think what's interesting is that Roundtail launched Halo. Yeah. Which is the antithesis of their hottest fund. Oh, absolutely. I think it's a great strategy, right? Well, for them, it's like a balance. It's a correlation thing, right? On one day. And you can structure a portfolio like that. One day, my memory stocks are up.

16:52The other day, my anti-AI stocks are up.

16:55Downtown Josh Brown:By the way, if the FBI is listening, I'm not promoting ETFs here. This is not a promotion. Please, don't buy it. I really don't want you to buy it.

17:01Michael Batnick:Todd, you know what's different about 2026, though? It's not just the number of new issues. It's the number of new issuers. At least, for example, have you ever heard of a company called Corgi?

17:12Downtown Josh Brown:I'm aware of it. I have no idea who they are or where they come from.

17:15Michael Batnick:So I only just found out about it kind of recently. Tell us their story. Okay, so Corgi, and if they're listening, I apologize if I butcher their backstory. They are a Y Combinator-backed company. I don't know Y Combinator. Silicon Valley money.

17:28Downtown Josh Brown:Wait, sorry.

17:29Michael Batnick:Y Combinator-backing ETF company?

17:31Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah, something like that. That used to be a badge of honor. Now they have a graduating class of 9 ,000 companies. I don't know. That's where the money comes from. And the folks there are basically saying, we still think fees in certain segments are too high. Levered ETFs and thematic ETFs. So they are going to launch everything under the sun. And they're just going to try and scale it up. So they did 30 different thematic ETFs. Everything that we know. They're copying the most popular funds, but for a lower price. But for half the cost, about 35 basis points. What a great pitch. And they don't have to make money.

18:05Downtown Josh Brown:They just have to sell it to some other schmuck. You just got to scale it up. Yeah. Right. And it's kind of the Hollywood box office approach. I release 10 films in a year. Seven are flops. Three are hits. That's all you need. And the hits will pay for the flops. Hits pay for the flops. And they're doing it with levered ETFs too. Single stock and index base, but at 50 basis points. Levered ETFs are usually what? 90 to 120. Do the other ETF issuers look at them like, guys, what are you doing? Oh, yeah. We have great businesses. Why are you wrecking our business? I think there's a little consternation.

18:33I applaud them for trying to do something different on the fee basis. But, you know, it's also a distribution game. If you don't have the distribution, then you're not going anywhere.

18:40Downtown Josh Brown:There used to be ETF conferences. Yeah. I feel like this would be a knife fight. Oh, it's definitely a knife fight. Like if we were all at the Diplomat Hotel and this was 2016, this could get ugly. And it's interesting because their thematic ones are actively managed. But I think it's probably more AI managed than portfolio managers. How's the performance or it's too soon? They're too soon. Okay. They're too soon. Now, they also have a Photonics ETF. Yeah, why not? I might have one. Do institutions care that they've never heard of Corgi? Would they ever trade it? Or does it need three years of seasoning?

19:14No, I think if they were to become the liquidity-dominant vehicle in a theme, they don't care.

19:19Michael Batnick:I think it's the basket of stocks. There's liquidity there. I don't think people care. If you're trading$100 million, it's different. You want the liquidity.

19:26Downtown Josh Brown:Wait, what do you mean? You mean as long as the underlying stocks trade?

19:29Michael Batnick:I don't think the brand name matters like it used to in 2018. Okay.

19:33Downtown Josh Brown:Of the issuer. To a hedge fund, no. But to a financial advisor, yes.

19:38Michael Batnick:Yeah.

19:39Downtown Josh Brown:Financial advisor. I'll give you an example. And I'm going to stay on this photonics, even though none of us have any idea with the whole photonic. Michael's going to go to the look. There are five photonic ETFs right now. They've all launched in the list. And there are three photonic stocks. Yeah, exactly. They're going to get watered down. They just have different proportions of each. Yeah. What's the big one? All right.

20:03Michael Batnick:Momentum. They target optical networking, lasers, and silicon photonic companies. I know what this is. It's a freaking laser. Yeah, freaking laser. I don't know what it is. Okay. There were four of them previous to the last week. Corgi, Cuddle, and two others I cannot remember all the time I had. Roundhill. Tema? Who's Tema? Tema. Is it Temu ETF? Temu ETF. Temu Emu. The four of these were around, and they were doing some volume. Roundhill launches their photonics fund and takes all the volume. And it's only three or four days old now. They're already doing more volume than the other four combined.

20:40Do you understand?

20:41Downtown Josh Brown:So are the active slash thematics going to be 10 basis point products by the time this is done? I think by the end of the decade, it's not unreasonable. Will the incumbents fight back and cut prices? They're going to have to. They're going to have to. Especially once these funds get seasoned and aged. And if you're seeing that there's no tracking error between them, then you have a problem. You know what's nuts? There's no referee. No. It's free market. If you rip people off like this in some other business, you're going to go to court. You might prevail, but there's no referee saying that ETF looks exactly like a different ETF.

21:17Downtown Josh Brown:You can't just do what they're doing.

21:18Michael Batnick:Remember in 2017 when Hack was mogged? What was it, Andrew? Right. And everybody was like, this is not right. This is bullshit. Boo that man. This is unethical. Nobody cares. Well, wait, wait, wait.

21:34Downtown Josh Brown:It's two different things. He had an ETF stolen from him. Allegedly, allegedly. Oh, yeah, for procure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Allegedly, he created an ETF. And then they got booted. You're right. It's not the same thing. And they found a way to get rid of him. What we're saying is like, if hypothetically somebody came along and said, look, I just invented ChatGPT. No, you didn't. It exists already. You can't call your product. Like there's nobody coming to rescue these incumbents as they get. If you can build a great product at a cheaper price, they will come to you. Don't you think this just ends at three basis points?

22:13Michael Batnick:Not for the leveraged stuff because nobody cares. Yeah, leveraged stuff is different just because it's supposed to be data-sable. Nobody's going from one that's 59 basis points to one that's 37 because nobody cares. You're trading at anyone. Unless you are a brand loyalist. I think this is going to be a great test of brand loyalty. Roundhill has developed their brand. People know the brand. These other upstart issuers who are trying to get in the space,

22:35Downtown Josh Brown:you got to work on it. Who else in that second and third tier? I don't mean that as a term of disrespect. I mean not BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street. The middle class, yeah, yeah. Because I felt as though Wisdom Tree had a brand. Right. It had like its adherence and, you know, the Jeremy's. Yeah. Who else do you think has a real, I mean, not how much could they sell the company for, but who has a brand that, because I know you could sell anything now. It resonates. You could start a company last year and sell it right now, but. The brand that I think resonates the most is. Direction? VanEck.

23:12Michael Batnick:I was about to say VanEck. I was about to say VanEck. I'm so glad you said that. SMH. SMH. There's nothing rocket sciencey there, but they've got the stranglehold. They have the best ticker in the world of ETFs to me. Racks? No, HODL.

23:26Downtown Josh Brown:They have Buzz. They did the social media one.

23:30Michael Batnick:Yeah. I don't know.

23:31Downtown Josh Brown:The meme stock one. The one shut down, I think. GDX is a huge product. Why do you think VanEck has a brand? They play their social game really well. The intern is on the, whatever that is. I don't get the joke. VanEck intern is their social media account, and it just tweets out random stuff. It's actually Jan. It's Jan. You're right. They do the ties. The ties are great for folks like me who wear a tie, and I respect that. Pacer ETFs? Good products. Do they have a niche or do they have a brand? They have a really good sales force. Good sales force. And First Trust. I've met those guys. Pacer and First Trust.

24:07Just relentless, boots on the ground, sales force.

24:11Michael Batnick:Gifts. Not gifts. Meals. Meals. Baseball tickets. Yeah, and they build products. They build quality, for the most part, products. But I don't think of them in terms of like going viral?

24:25Downtown Josh Brown:Granite. Granite shares. Direction. Crane.

24:29Michael Batnick:I mean, there's a million. Yeah, I mean, there's some.

24:31Downtown Josh Brown:I think like, I do think advisors care about brands because they have to answer for these products to their clients. Yeah. And I think having logos that are recognizable in an investor presentation does, I don't know if it helps raise money, but I think it helps clients feel good about what they're about to commit to. The brand, I mean, ticker sometimes, they know who you're talking to. Some people like the exotic tickers, and some people are like, well, I can't have this on a client. I'm agnostic. I don't, I'm not one of these people that's like, oh, it's cutesy ticker. As long as you can explain it.

25:06Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah. But the brand, and then how does the ETF work? Is it a quality product? Because there's products out there that are like, what is this? All right, let's do the chart. This is the annual number of ETF launches. This is a strategist chart from Todd. this is getting difficult to keep up with so what do you mean by that because because you have to write research on all these products i try to keep up with what's going on people want to know hey what new products are coming out when new etfs are coming out and just kind of keep track of everything and especially you can drop coverage of things that don't matter anymore yeah yeah but i you know a lot of our clients always want to say hey what are you seeing out there that's unique different uh not necessarily hot because they all they all know about the hot etfs it

25:47Michael Batnick:it's written up a thousand times there's like 20 a week yeah yeah but they just want to know like is someone doing something that's really interesting that we need to be aware of i'm talking the big institutional players that do not want to miss out on the next big whatever

26:01Downtown Josh Brown:so all right so if there's something thematic or active auto callables are coming up huge

26:07Michael Batnick:coming up more in my conversation billion dollars already calamos is yeah there's more of those popping up. I am not an autocallable expert. I can do autocallable kindergarten.

26:17Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah, I am. I'll explain it to you off the air. So what's your process to keep up? What do you, like, you read the news or do you have a filter? I've got the software, you know, Bloomberg, ETF Action, just going through everything each day. Most of the time, you can figure out what it is. It's pretty vanilla. Like, oh, 2x this or thematic that. But I also keep track of whatever a new filing comes in, a new registration for an ETF. I'm digging into it. just commit it to memory. Okay. And then, how do you decide which ones you want to write about? You're focusing on the volume. Like, are people involved in this or should I not waste my time?

26:52It's just me. Okay. I don't do pay-to-play. Okay. You know, of course, if you're a strategist client, maybe I'll give you an edge. Okay. If I'm going to make a list of 10 tickers I think you should pay attention to and you're a strategist client, of course, I'm going to be preferable to the non-paying strategist client. Right. But I also want to know, hey, where are the assets? I can't put something that's$10 million on a list in the note. But I want to know the volume, the liquidity, what's it doing? Is it paying out capital gains? That's kind of a no-no for me. There's these other cases of that.

27:24But it's a little bit of just due diligence. What's the new floor? Because I remember people used to say— It used to be$100 million.

27:31Downtown Josh Brown:Well, I thought it used to be$100 million, and now it could be$1 billion. Before something is like, this thing is real. So we've—within Strategas, right, we have our ETFs. With SAMT, we're getting pushback on, hey, get to a – call us when you get to a billion. Right. That's what I'm saying. It's at 890 million right now. They're like, call us when you get to a billion. I think a billion is the new 100 million. Yeah, exactly. Yes. In terms of like this is something we could put into an allocation and not look stupid in six months or a year. Yeah. They don't want to get burned. There's too much money at stake.

28:02Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah. And there's too many other established products. Can I tell you one thing that is funny? I thought – and I was wrong. You might have agreed with me or not agreed with me. I really thought direct indexing was going to halt the ETF. Maybe not the size of the market. I just thought it would calm things down. I don't think you thought that. I did think that. I just. I don't think you're wrong. Maybe for core products. I basically thought custom indexes will probably capture 10 % of the wealth management business. And what that will mean downstream is that there'll be less ETFs. What a horrible opinion.

28:38Downtown Josh Brown:It's just easier to buy. It's a thousand ETFs a year. It's just easier to buy a ticker. I want memory exposure. I buy the memory ETFs that are out there. And I just do it real quick. Retail doesn't care about custom indexing. Custom indexing to me is a wealth management product. It is. High net worth. But they try, like Vanguard, Fidelity, they all tried to push that in front of - And nobody wanted it. Retail investors. I'm sure some people are using it, but you're right. It's not - I don't need it. People are not climbing over the walls to get into custom indexing.

29:07Michael Batnick:Let's look at the categories because there's one that's not here that's going to prevent this from slowing down. It's only going to accelerate. Next chart. Todd has the annual number of ETF launches by exposure, and it's pretty diversified. There's obviously a lot of leverage. There's equity as usual, fixed income. Buffer is now a real category. Option income is a real category. Crypto is smaller, but commodities are still doing it. I mean, there's a lot going on here. Here's one category that you're going to see, I don't know when, predictions. Ooh, yeah. Okay, here's my thesis. Mike Mobison and Dan Callahan wrote a paper last week about prediction markets and all markets and the wisdom of the crowds and how it works.

29:48Michael Batnick:And they showed a line between what Calci predicts, like what's implied in the odds, and what actually happens. And it's basically one for one up and to the right. The market is usually right. The betting market is usually right. However, there's something called the long shot bias, which means that people are more structurally, people are more likely to bet on a long shot that will not win. So the long shots are overpriced, but the heavy favorites are slightly underpriced. So if you are minus 900, nobody's taking that bet, right? Who the f*** is risking$900 to win$100, right? Nobody does that.

30:23Michael Batnick:So the heavy favorites are slightly undervalued. Okay, hear me out. if there is a market, a basket, an index, an ETF that only buys the heavy favorites and set the line where it's an 85 % chance to win. All right, so there's a 15 % upside. There'll be some slippage, right? But that is a structural - 15 % is great. That is a structural impairment in the market. So an investment product, that's great. So it's, no, it's not fun. It's not fun, but who cares? So if you take every heavy favorite across, not just the NFL and the NBA, but across the Oscars, whatever the betting market is, and you say, we bet on every heavy favorite minus 850 and above when there's$10 million in liquidity or whatever it is, that's going to be an ETF.

31:03It's already been filed. Who's doing it?

31:07Downtown Josh Brown:Subversive? That sounds perfect. It's the company. That's literally the name. It's the company who did the Democratic and Republican trading ETFs, like the Cruz and Nancy. But you're going to see a million of these in the next few years. I think it's subversive. So it sounds like a company that's going out of their way to do things that... The SEC put the brakes on these things for now. They're open for common because once you open up prediction market ETFs, we're going to be doing that.

31:32Michael Batnick:It's going to be insane.

31:33Downtown Josh Brown:We are inventing new and exciting ways to lose our money, grind our portfolios. You will not be disrupted by AI.

31:41Michael Batnick:You are safe.

31:42Downtown Josh Brown:I hope so. People need you. So the idea, though, behind ETF was to hire a professional sports betting manager who finds value in the lines. So there'll be that too. Yeah. Like an actively managed hedge fund of betting.

31:56Michael Batnick:You're talking about like, what's Matt Damon's character in Rounders? Not Worm. Him and an ETF basically. Worm is Norton. Yeah. Mike something. Oh, yeah, yeah, Mike. Mike, yeah. Him managing an ETF is basically Rounders 2.

32:11Downtown Josh Brown:What? Oh, so can I ask you about buffer ETFs? Yeah, of course. This is the breakout category of the last two years, probably. Not crypto. Not crypto. Dude, six years ago. Buffer or you could argue option income. Both, both, both. They're both options. Well, the covered call ETFs have been around forever. True. Yeah, the first one came out in 2010, maybe. But they got sexy.

32:37Michael Batnick:They got real sexy.

32:38Downtown Josh Brown:Oh, that's like Jeppy and… Well, Neos. So actually, great topic.

32:43Michael Batnick:So Neos and Bruce Bond's company… Both of these categories were acquired by Goldman. Wait, what's Bruce's company's name? Innovator. Innovator. So Innovator and Neos were both bought by Goldman. Yeah.

32:53Downtown Josh Brown:$4 billion worth of acquisitions. What is the Goldman ETF strategy? I know it's more. I know it's more. If we asked six months ago, I would say I have no idea because they were like – Now you know. Now it's too – Okay, so they acquired a buffered ETF shop, Innovator, which for the uninitiated, it protects you on the downside over the course of the next 12 months, caps you on the – These are like the old school structured products that brokerages used to sell. Right. Okay. And then they also acquired Neos, which does option income ETFs, S &P covered call funds. So let me tell you, I ran into Tom Lydon at the New York Stock Exchange.

33:30Downtown Josh Brown:Today? The GOAT. The GOAT. Six months ago. He's with the guys from Neos. Yeah. And I don't even know. I don't even remember the guys. Some of them didn't even speak English. You know, he's buying the Lakers. Tom Lydon?

33:42Michael Batnick:Yeah. Yeah, why not?

33:43Downtown Josh Brown:I mean, so he goes, hey, man, you ever hear of these guys? You should check these guys out. he's like I'm just sort of helping them out making introductions right but these guys have a great product people love it and I'm like alright yeah I'll look into that what I should have said is Tom I don't care what it is please can I have 1 % what do I need to do to buy 1 % of this because this guy is like just striking gold every three years he's a great guy so they bought an income provider and a structured outcome provider you guys know this time out stop 2 billion dollars 2.3 for both of them 2.3 billion for Neos 2.3 for Neos I forget you know there was like 2 something and what was the AUM for Neos 30-ish 30 billion

34:34Michael Batnick:we don't know what the terms of the deal are 2.3 is probably like if this happens and if this happens and if this happens there's probably a lot of ifs but great for them

34:41Downtown Josh Brown:what are we wasting our lives doing

34:43Michael Batnick:yeah Tom you want to run the show we should do it

34:45Downtown Josh Brown:should I make Tom the CEO of Ritholtz Just sail off into the sunset? I mean, given his magical touch, then yes. He'll sell this company for$100 billion. All right. Anyway. It's enough glazing Tom Liden. They are catering to what I believe is the aging demographics of America. They want yield. Yield. They like buffer. Or downside protection. That's so brilliant. That's my guess.

35:09Michael Batnick:Goldman, on the recent call, Solomon was talking a lot about leaning into wealth. Now, they're doing the custody thing, but I did not see this one coming.

35:20Downtown Josh Brown:No, me neither. It's smart, though, because if they're really going to do RAA custody, it can't be for basis points on trades. There's got to be a purpose, and the purpose is to get more asset management revenue. And this is the product that makes it make sense. These are products that people in their 50s and 60s want. These products have legs, and it's sticky.

35:45Michael Batnick:The AUM is sticky. Oh, it's definitely sticky. Nobody's selling these products. It's not hot-themed money. You know what else? It's the opposite.

35:50Downtown Josh Brown:You know what else? Vanguard's not in these categories, or at least not meaningfully. On my hot take, and I think I'm probably wrong, but I think Vanguard will get into them. They have to. Yeah, he's probably taking meetings about this every day. I mean, they're in the ETF business. Like, why wouldn't you? They're not going to buy. No, they would just do it themselves. They'll do it themselves. Yeah. I just think it's a matter of time. Like, this is where the money is going and the growth areas.

36:14Michael Batnick:I can't believe they missed this.

36:15Downtown Josh Brown:Wait, so then does that make Goldman regret its decision if Vanguard comes in and hoovers up 80 % of the market or not really? Then it becomes a our wealth platform versus your distribution mechanism. I can't believe Vanguard is not in the RIA custody business. It's a whole other conversation. I just can't. I'm thinking about from the ETF landscape. Vanguard is low-cost core. Yeah.

36:39Michael Batnick:Not derivatives. Tom, I saw—Tom. Todd. Not Tom. We can't stop thinking about that. What the hell is your name? Call me whatever you want. I saw this today from James Seifard. I like this. That guy. All right. So James is great. Today, we have ETFs from Harvard Capital launching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll be actively managed funds that specifically target each firm's ecosystem. I love this. I think it's a great idea, Josh. Tell me what you think about this. So for example - Did you look at the holdings? No. So tell me about it. Wait, I don't understand. Let me tell you. SpaceX AI Lab Ecosystem ETF is an ETF incorporated in the United - Okay.

37:12Michael Batnick:The fund seeks to provide exposure to the portfolio eligible companies most directly linked to the SpaceX AI artificial intelligence ecosystem. So imagine you want to be in the NVIDIA business. You want to own the ETF of all the companies, CoreWeave, whatever, all the companies that do business with NVIDIA. I think this is a great idea. It's interesting. The largest one, I looked at the whole thing, the largest in the open AI ETF is SoftBank.

37:35Downtown Josh Brown:So what is – wait. So what's in the Google deep mind? Google? Like how much overlay? There's going to be a lot of overlap. There's a lot of overlap to other. I like the concept. It's interesting. I have to be honest with you, though. I think we're in a very specific market moment where, like, mom and pop investors are waking up and turning on CNBC. And making money. Well, listening to Leslie Picker very, like, specifically explain who's buying chips from who. People are not going to be that interested in this. in a year or two. People know way more about this than I've ever seen people understand because the media is so fascinating.

38:20Downtown Josh Brown:And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I think we're going to move on. That's usually what happens. That's always what happens. Think about it. Six years ago, we were like, innovation and disruption. I have to tell you that I was in this business when people would go on TV and with a screwdriver, take apart a tower, a computer tower, and point out the Intel chips in it. They used to do that with the iPhone, right? Right. So I was going to bring you up to modern times. But early in the game, they would take a Compaq or a Dell. They would open it up and they would say, look, it's a Pentium chip from Intel.

38:54Downtown Josh Brown:And that was like the investing theme. And people grew tired of that really fast. And then they did it with the iPhone. And I remember there was this whole suite of stocks like Skyworks and this one and that one. These guys make the glass. These guys make the antenna. People got bored of that. They're going to get bored of this. I think it's clever. And I'm sure they'll make a lot of money. I don't know. It's all about the distribution game now, right? Interesting ideas. So who's the distributor of this? It's Harbor Capital, I think, right? No, who's the investor in this? I'm asking the wrong question.

39:28Downtown Josh Brown:I think it's going to be retail. Who do you think is buying this?

39:29Michael Batnick:I like the idea. I don't think this is going to get traction.

39:32Downtown Josh Brown:Me either. I would tend to agree to. And we will delete this if it does. Yeah.

39:36Michael Batnick:No, I hope it doesn't. I want everybody to win. But Josh is right. This is also a bull market activity. Like this type of shit does not find a bear, obviously. You don't see this at bottoms.

39:47Downtown Josh Brown:No. Or at the start of cycles. But it's also, there's a fatigue that sets in. Even if there's no crash as a result of this, it's like, oh, I'm exhausted. You're going to see somebody come on Twitter and be like, remember we used to talk about the ecosystem of open AI? Like, it's going to feel stupid. I don't know if that's in three years or six months. Their challenge would be, why do I need this over a regular tech ETF? Right. If the holdings are the kind of thing. Wait, John, they're not sponsoring the show, are they? Who is this, Harvard? All right.

40:19Michael Batnick:Todd, what did we see in the levered universe over the last couple of weeks during the washout? Oh, yeah. Okay, so speaking of AI semis, right? We had a moment in July. Things got shaky. And you talk about tightening, monetary tightening. Korea decided to tighten. in their market significantly.

40:39Downtown Josh Brown:Not through interest rates, but through saying... No more 2X. No more... You cannot launch more 2X single stock funds. And if you want to trade them, you got to go through driver's ed. And they're serious about it. So that was a different form of tightening. But what I find interesting is... Wait, they made them take a course? They're putting in place all these different regulations now. Like you have to go through a... I think it was a week worth of simulated trading now to trade levered ETFs. I love that. Yeah, makes sense. Korea is a very homogenous culture, right? It's different than America.

41:11Downtown Josh Brown:The Koreans are Korean. They have the power and they have the cultural buy-in. If they all decide this is what's best for our communities and our families and our future retirement hopes and dreams, then we're going to – here, it's like the opposite. It's like what can I bet on next?

41:29Michael Batnick:I think what you're trying to say is they're very dim sum. What?

41:35Downtown Josh Brown:no no i'm making the point we don't have that kind of cultural buy-in if you get one person says i want to ban this there'll be another person right next to them saying you shamed i want to do five times the amount of this oh yeah yeah right we don't have a culture we all agree on yeah we don't have a shame so now the default is like can we gamble on it and will it sponsor podcasts yes and these are the only two requirements for something to happen um so they tighten their market. Levered long AUM. The levered space got up to$200 billion, which was a new high watermark, $500 billion in Notional, new high watermark.

42:10People started to get real uncomfortable, I think, in terms of their exposure there, specifically counterparties doing the swaps.

42:14Michael Batnick:Yeah, the air gets pretty thin up there. Yeah. And as much as it was a rough July for a lot of those stocks, the assets in levered long products only went down about 25%. That's not that much. And given the action today, like Sandisk was up, I don't know, silly amount. 15 % we're about to go right back to that high I know that this situational awareness fellow situational awareness I think you were doing that was great yeah he got off the field he's gonna come right back on and I think we're gonna be back in the same place

42:41Downtown Josh Brown:pretty soon I called that I called that very quickly like this kid this kid will be managing money tomorrow yeah you think this is a scandal it's not this is this is what Silicon Valley guys love the demand for leverage as much as July was a a reprieve a respite whatever you want to call it, is coming right back. We're not through this yet. And your son's asleep. I mean, am I that boring? We're talking about ETFs for three and a half hours. I can't believe it.

43:11Michael Batnick:Fantastic.

43:12Downtown Josh Brown:What is this so much? What is this retail cash?

43:15Michael Batnick:This is interesting.

43:16Downtown Josh Brown:What you got?

43:18Michael Batnick:I get a lot wrong, but sometimes I get things right. And this is one of them. That's okay. That I said early on when interest rates went all the way up and all the money went into cash, that this money was stuck, not literally stuck, but it was going to stay put, that it was not going to come out in the event of a stock market boom. I did think probably if you said, well, what if the 10 year is at 4.9? I probably would have said, yeah, then it'll probably go into bonds. Nope. No, you need Fed funds below 3%, I think for this to unstick. So that I could have foreseen that you would have the stock market boom.

43:54Michael Batnick:You would have interest rates going higher. You would have the Fed funds rate coming lower. And still, it's not leaving. Yeah. Yeah. I think get down to 3 % or a massive stock market correction. Like, you know, real.

44:08Downtown Josh Brown:Doesn't this line go higher in a correction? No, I think the opposite. When you – so let's just say this market – Because people get scared and they pull it into their bank out of the money market? No.

44:19Michael Batnick:I do think that this generation of investors will not run out of the stock market.

44:24Downtown Josh Brown:Wait, so for people listening, this is$3 trillion in total retail money market funds. And for - Retail. Retail. For context, it was$1.5 trillion the day before the pandemic started, which is six years ago. A little more than six years ago.

44:43Michael Batnick:I think if you get a 35 % meltdown in the S &P 500, money will come out of money market funds and go into the stock market. And that's probably never happened before. I could see that.

44:57Downtown Josh Brown:And then if you were to tell me - Are we all saying the same thing here? Are we saying Dow 100 ,000? All it has to do is fall 30 % first? Yes. Is that what we're saying? Basically. If you told me Fed funds rates were going to be below 3 % along with that, then yeah, that's what happened in 2007. What if it still doesn't move? What if it just never moves again? People just got lazy. I don't know. A lot of the economy runs on borrowed money versus spent money. It's very different now. I'm not saying that's good. But I am saying people are doing things with their assets without their assets having to be sold.

45:32Downtown Josh Brown:Like buying the Lakers? I mean, basically.

45:35Michael Batnick:Can I ask you guys a question? So the S &P 500 is at an ultimate today. I'm not even sure where the Dow is. Is the Dow at 56 ,000? I really have no idea.

45:45Downtown Josh Brown:Do you want to know exactly? I'm not a big Dow guy. Well, I am.

45:48Michael Batnick:Well, you just said Dow 100. That just reminded me. I really don't track it.

45:51Downtown Josh Brown:No, I think it's 48 ,000.

45:53Michael Batnick:I get interested when stocks are kicked out. of the Dow.

45:56Downtown Josh Brown:You think what? I get it interesting when stocks get out of the Dow.

45:59Michael Batnick:Unless you were talking about Michael. The Dow is at$54 ,000. $54 ,000. And the market is healthy, Todd. The market is very healthy. We've got a dashboard from Chartkin Matt. Fill this up, fellas. All right. How about this? Energy leading the way. I'm a fan because it's anti-beta to the S &P now. Yeah, it's tiny. Energy's beta has collapsed. It's like 2 % of the market. Yeah. Okay, so if you don't want to take a big swing, you buy natural resources ETF where you're going to get energy and materials and maybe some other stuff. But energy's beta is negative to the S &P. It is just a complete collapse.

46:36So it's a hedge necessarily, especially when bonds aren't hedging. Wait, healthcare, I said. Healthcare too. I'm talking about energy.

46:44Michael Batnick:Okay. So here's what we're sorting by RSI over 70. So healthcare, I mean, healthcare is working. It's been a while. It was really shitty in the first half of the year. Healthcare has been the bane of my existence. Why? For the last year and a half, two years, the case has been the same thing for healthcare. A massive money out of healthcare ETFs. Okay, you know, I start to think contrarianly. The temperature is very cold. And relative performance that is in its bottom decile. So bad, it's so good. So that's an interesting combination. Bottom decile performance, healthcare outflows. People hate it.

47:17So the contrarian to me starts to say, oh, look at this. It's finally starting to work. The joke I always use is healthcare took a GLP one. It went from 16 % to 8 % of the S &P 500.

47:27Downtown Josh Brown:I think people hate it as a sector, but they love some of the individual stocks. Because while that's going on, what you're describing, Lilly became one of the 10 largest market caps in the world. So I think it's – I think in healthcare more so than energy. Energy is one trade. Yes. Now, we have some stocks on our best stocks in the markets list from the energy sector. Marathon, Valero, HF Sinclair, what's called Phillips 66. So all three are all three refiners. We have Baker Hughes, a few. But like if I look at the energy sector on any given day, they're probably going to be all red or all green.

48:09Downtown Josh Brown:Exactly. Cannot say that about health care. Health care is very diverse. Extraordinarily diverse in terms of the number of industry groups. And then on a stock-by-stock basis, we're talking about you get a drug approved or not approved, it could mean 30 % market cap instantly. I think that's also why sector investing needs to evolve. You can't just buy XLV or XLI because industrials are super diverse. You're buying transport. You're buying power generation. Or airplanes or Uber. So you're seeing more, not necessarily niche, but subsector ETFs launch. Thematics. It's thematics. And that's the kind of the - Sectors are very artificial.

48:48Downtown Josh Brown:They come from the 1930s, 40s, 50s. They're not applicable. Antiquated.

48:53Michael Batnick:It's visa discretionary and not a financial. It's a tech. Or tech? No, it's a financial.

48:58Downtown Josh Brown:I should know this. Exactly. It's in the XLK, isn't it? You might be right. It shouldn't be. Well, what index provider are we talking about? Because now you're getting into index providers. Is it S &P? Is it FTSE? You know what's funny about this? MSCI? One of the big things like with financial TV, one of the tropes is like, what sectors are you overweight? What sectors are you underweight? You can't do it. It's just not helpful. I understand it's a good conversation starter. Of course. And maybe with tech or with oil, it makes sense because that is sort of thematic. Yeah. But like, what do you think of consumer discretionary?

49:30Downtown Josh Brown:I don't know which one.

49:32Michael Batnick:No, tech doesn't work anymore. Software versus semis. Yeah, it's true. Can we talk discretionary for a moment? And consumer? Oh, I brought one of your charts. Is it the weight chart? No, but talk to it. Oh, where did the consumer go? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Chart nine. I love this. This is interesting to me because the consumer is such an important part of our economy and yet both discretionary and staples weight in the S &P is evaporating. Staples, we know. It's a bull market. Nobody drinks anymore. They're 4.5 % of the S &P 500. That is a 50%.

50:00Downtown Josh Brown:It's a bull market and nobody drinks anymore.

50:02Michael Batnick:But you know what this is? This is Google and NVIDIA growing faster. That too.

50:07Downtown Josh Brown:Why? Are there big alcohol weights in here? It's just like… It's alcohol, tobacco.

50:11Michael Batnick:No, it's the denominator. The S &P is outgrowing them. Yeah. If it's not risk off, there's no reason to only own staples. And especially in the option income world we're in. I don't need staples for yield. Discretionary below 10 % is rare. That's interesting to me. That usually happens in tougher economic environments, of which is not the case right now. And that kind of speaks to how dispersed that whole sector is. But is – which one? Discretionary? Discretionary, yeah. Because you got hotels, Amazon, home building. Tesla. Is Tesla in there? Yeah.

50:42Downtown Josh Brown:Why is Tesla not an industrial? Am I like looking at it? Why is SpaceX not industrial? It's in communications. Yeah, how is Tesla discretionary? You're right. I think throw all of that shit out. It's from another era. Can you name me one person who works with geeks? No. You know a lot of people, right? No. It's probably some sort of cabal. I don't even know. Who is on the geeks? Who is geeks? Who is geeks? I don't know. I don't know. It could be some skull and bones thing. Yeah. What's that Simpsons episode? The skull whatever.

51:11Michael Batnick:Yes. What's going on with the small caps? Are anybody buying them? You've charted this for a while. Lack of interest. There's money coming back into small cap ETS, but I just get the sense that people are like, yeah, we're dabbling back in after three years of being out. I think there's a lot of reluctance. I think, though, following this Russell reconstitution, the next six to 12 months will be interesting for small caps because they had Bloom Energy, which was a$100 billion market cap. That's never happened in the Russell 2000 before. How come they can't update their rules? Okay. Yeah. Well, I think they make it semi-annually now.

51:44Michael Batnick:Yeah, but if a stock is two and a half times larger, if number one is two and a half times larger than number two, it gets out of there. Draw a line somewhere. You should be an index provider.

51:54Downtown Josh Brown:It's common sense. Batnik indices. That would make sense. I want to ask you about - Small cash are great, though. I want to ask you about the crypto ETF race. Is it still a race or has it been won? And like, is anyone going to give up? Okay. Okay. Crypto. The money is leaving crypto ETFs, interestingly. It's leaving. Is it going into – it's obviously not going into crypto.

52:20Michael Batnick:Wait, I thought they were coming back.

52:21Downtown Josh Brown:Are these people just buying AI? Are they just buying AI stocks? I think they're just buying AI stocks now. Right. Or maybe software. Can you blame them? Yeah, they got tired. They thought they owned the innovation of the decade, and now they realize they don't. It's ice cold. The amount of crypto ETF products, though, got stupid. I mean, we were doing 2X Dogecoin. Why? You've got to have it. Right. Nobody wants it. The one that's interesting to me is Hyperliquid because I actually have a tangible feeling for it. I can go on a computer and say, look at Hyperliquid. This is neat.

52:48Michael Batnick:I think that's super cool. So for people that don't know about it, explain it quickly. It's a perpetual futures exchange. So you were able to trade SpaceX synthetically on Hyperliquid before it IPO. And it got it right. Yeah, I think so. Because it's the market. Yeah, yeah. It might be not the most liquid market, but it's growing. Crude oil over the weekend. You can trade crude oil on the weekend. You can trade Bitcoin whenever you want. It's an exchange disruptor. That's interesting to me. All these other random crypto ETFs of which I'm naive and don't understand. Like, okay. Why can't we just be honest and say they're penny stocks?

53:18Downtown Josh Brown:They probably are. They're chain letter stocks. Why can't we just be honest with each other? They were supercharged because of the existence of Twitter and Reddit, which did not exist in prior penny stock bull markets. But it was penny stocks. Majority of advisors will buy the brand name, which is Bitcoin. Yeah. Some smart ones will say, oh, I like this. I don't know. Exactly. Whatever. I don't know. We had a financial advisor sitting in your seat talking about Ethereum. Yeah. I love him. I have no idea what he said. He's one out of 100. I have no idea. Like, I don't know if he does either, but it was great.

53:54Downtown Josh Brown:All right. I want to ask you about international ETFs. I haven't heard a peep about – I guess like Robinhood retail doesn't care about foreign stocks. There's no AI. I mean, there's AI, but there's no… But there's EM. You have Korea and that's it? There's Korea. Little Japan? Korea and Taiwan jacked up emerging markets, which is interesting to me. But so are you saying if there's no AI, there's no flows? There's no semi… I mean, they get flows only for model allocations. Like the real boring MSCI EFA. Stocks have not been bad. Japan's great. Japan's been excellent. Europe has been surprisingly good.

54:27Right. Korea, China's kind of a disaster. Okay. That's always the case. Okay. Nothing new there.

54:34Downtown Josh Brown:but people just don't seem to care. Are you surprised that commodity stocks never worked? To this day, have never worked. Commodity ETFs. They have their absolute, oh, like the actual. I mean the funds, the products. They come with futures role problems and they come with tax problems too, right? If it's not, if it's in a partnership, a commodity pool, you get a K1. Oh, I know. I won't buy these things. But I guess my question to you is, are you surprised as somebody who follows this industry more closely than anyone. Why did nobody figure this out? So you have this - They tried to. Yeah, the futures role problems with Contango and too boring for me to even get into.

55:13Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah. The tax side, the way it's classified, the gains are classified. There are some successful, actively managed commodity ETFs out there.

55:23Michael Batnick:Yeah, how about this? The sponsor of today's show, Wax. No kidding. They figured it out. So they have over a billion dollars in that fund. Yeah, and that - That's a real fund. A purpose in a portfolio. Right. Right. As a diversifier, as an inflation hedge, if that ever becomes a thing again. And you have someone at the wheel. I think it's David Shastler.

55:41Downtown Josh Brown:So that's different. You're talking about managed. Yeah. What I'm saying is like. You're just saying a plain copy ETF. I'm saying what never worked is like I just want an ETF product that will go up and down with crude oil. I don't want to hear about backwardation ever.

55:59Michael Batnick:But how come gold works? Because you can store it. That's it? Yeah. That's the whole thing? Crack the code. You can't store copper.

56:06Downtown Josh Brown:So you have to use the futures for like, I don't know, agricultural products because you can't store wheat forever. It'll go bad. It goes bad, yeah. That's all it is? That's the whole thing? It's always stored somewhere. This whole time. This whole time. That's a great answer though. Why is gold successful? You know what's so funny? Josh is going to be saying this for the rest of his career. It just goes in a vault and it just sits there. I never understood. No, I never understood why they couldn't give me oil or gas. yeah you can those are harder to store who is working on the compute ETF which you f***ing know is coming oh there's a whole bunch of them ProShares Roundhill maybe Defiance

56:44Michael Batnick:wait what do you mean by compute like the stuff like literally

56:47Downtown Josh Brown:we'll track the price of compute not we will buy Korean memory stuff that's the next oh I know it is rat race and the price of chips there's I have a list somewhere of all the thematic launches coming out including compute and it's getting stupid it but there's how many compute etfs what we see by year end they'll be let me let me back this up so the big thing that happened this week which we talked about already on uh what are your thoughts this week people that missed it um there was a cnbc infomercial i can't describe it any other way oh with the with the ceos they i'm i would say this is on closing bell overtime which i think is on at four o 'clock something like yeah so i think they called the network and said would you be interested in Jensen Wang?

57:33Downtown Josh Brown:And they said, I'm listening. Would you be interested in Jensen Wang, David Solomon, Apollo, Blackstone? Would you be interested in all of them? A lot of security, dude. A round table at the NASDAQ announcing a$500 billion partnership. And they said, you could have the rest of the afternoon if you want it.

57:53Michael Batnick:A round table of circular financing. Right.

57:56Downtown Josh Brown:All right. So now that is gentlemen, start your engines. Everybody on Wall Street watched it. It was 34 minutes I watched on YouTube. So now you have to assume you're going to get futures, markets on the price of compute, and then you're also going to get an ETF product. There's already registrations out there for compute funds. So who do you think has the most compelling idea or who do you think will get out the door first? I don't know who gets out the door first off the top of my head. Do they all file at once at the same time? I think they've all filed pretty close together. So then this comes down to brand loyalty.

58:30who has the best brand loyalty out of the thematic space right now, it's Roundhill.

58:35Downtown Josh Brown:This should be the top. But it's not thematic. It's a commodity. It's like electricity. It's like betting on the price of... If you're catering to retail, to allocators, that's a different story. You know, if BlackRock does a BlackRock computing tip, that's a much different story. Okay, so the CEO of BlackRock, Larry Fink, was part of this roundtable. He's the only one that didn't come in person. I think he thought they were all going to get whacked. Opening scene of The Godfather 3. Can I tell you about an ETF that got filed today? Well, spoiler.

59:02Michael Batnick:I never saw that. Speaking. You want to know what was filed? It's from 1989. You want to know what was filed today? Yeah. Jensen Huang interview ETF.

59:11Downtown Josh Brown:Stop. I'm not kidding. Who's launching this? You don't want to know. Is it our sponsor? No. Okay. Wait. What does it do? Companies he interviews are in the portfolio. What? I'm a little. Who does he interview? I don't know. Is he Jay Leno? Maybe it's the people who make the coat. The leather. Okay. Hold on. So they said during this roundtable, though, that compute is a new asset class, wealth management, blah, blah, blah. Todd, I don't know if you heard.

59:37Michael Batnick:There's a shortage of it.

59:39Downtown Josh Brown:How do I do compute? So hear me out. How do I do that? Is there a world in which in three years, financial advisors are showing a model asset allocation and there's a slice for compute? Yeah, it's a new commodity. Why not? So like it's here's my 1 % allocation to gold. just because, and here's my 2 % compute sleeve. All right, stop. The answer is no. There's electricity futures in an ETF now also. Okay.

1:00:07Michael Batnick:I like that. I heard that pitch. I thought that made sense.

1:00:09Downtown Josh Brown:I forget the ticker of it. In my day, you could buy the utility stocks. I'm just saying. Not anymore.

1:00:15Michael Batnick:Wait, the price of electricity is not going down. It should be going up. Ever. It's not sexy enough to buy utilities anymore. I can buy covered call on Bitcoin. Why don't I need utility? what's your

1:00:26Downtown Josh Brown:what's your what's your fall winter outlook as far as like what people are going to be doing what people are going to be talking about for ETS yeah I think the resumption of leverage well no I wasn't going to ask you about Broadway

1:00:40Michael Batnick:yeah literature what's your outlook

1:00:41Downtown Josh Brown:any hot novels coming up Todd like what give us like tomorrow's headlines today what do you think is going to be big stories I would not be surprised if we start reading about how some of these thematic funds are kind of falling on their face. Okay. Cynically. I say it cynically because there's so many of them. There's not enough money to go around. Okay. It is still very much a bull market for stocks. It's not, you know, that's not a crazy thing to say. You know what's funny though? If you do an IPO for a company and the stock falls on its face, people get hurt. Yeah. Because they bought it at the IPO price and it gets cut in half and there's no interest and the analysts downgrade it or don't even cover it.

1:01:23with a failed ETF, so long as it accurately tracks what it's meant to track,

1:01:29Downtown Josh Brown:if it doesn't attract assets, nobody gets hurt. Who gives a shit? Yeah, a couple of investors in, but that's... No, but why do the investors get hurt? In other words... They bought it. Hear me out. Hear me out. They launch 10 compute ETFs, let's say, between now and the end of the year. And the price of compute actually goes down. And the ETFs actively track the price of compute. Yeah. You might have lost money as an investor on the bet, at least temporarily, but the ETFs did their job. Oh, exactly. They put their package product. Here it is in the opposite direction. They launched 10 compute ETFs.

1:02:05Downtown Josh Brown:The price of compute goes up 50%. Of those 10 ETFs, eight of them don't raise any money. They're flops. Yep. That would be the price went up of the vehicle, but the product is a fail. Yeah. Nobody won it. Who gives a shit though? That's... Nobody loses money. That's what happened with tanker shipping ETFs. Things up like 1 ,000%, but it's not taking any money. Right. So is it a flop or did it do its job? It's doing its job. It's just nobody wants it. Nobody made money. Yeah, nobody wants it. Or people could be making money. They just don't need the allocation for it. Did you have fun on the show today?

1:02:37Downtown Josh Brown:I always had fun on the show. Okay. Are you unnerved by this or it's okay? Your child or Michael? My, my. Or boy. He's adorable, right? I like the pillow. Shout out to the nugget. All right. So, Todd, we want to thank you so much for all the unbelievable work you do all year. You are my primary conduit for, it's like three people on the ETF side. I appreciate that. You're the vessel. And you're in there. It's Bouchounis. It's you. I would have to think long and hard about the third person. You really - He's a great guy. You cover it. You cover it really well. I want to tell people how they could learn more about Strategas and potentially become clients of what you guys do.

1:03:17Institutions, BairdStrategas.com. or if you'd like to invest with us, strategusetfs.com. Okay. How many ETFs do you have now? We have three. And if you're interested in - Only three out of 900 launched? What are you guys so busy doing? We're working on it. All right. If you want strategus in an ETF, S-A-M-T. That's a move. All right, Todd, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thank you, guys.

1:03:39Downtown Josh Brown:Hey, thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks for watching. We appreciate you. Leave a rating, leave a review. We'll talk to you soon.

1:03:50Thank you.