Tom Lee and Dan Ives Explain Everything

16:17Downtown Josh Brown:In what way are we ahead of China? I know I know chat GPT got to 100 million users very fast and now of course it's a billion I know Claude is somewhat neck and neck maybe stronger on the enterprise not as strong on consumer but fairly close Gemini of course instant adoption because Google put it at the top of 12 of its products that part I know but I also know the Chinese have allowed these open weight models to proliferate. We could debate how open weight they really are, given Beijing's grip on the scene. I also know Baidu is not sitting around eating glue, and Tencent and all the Chinese players have their own entrance into the race.

17:05Downtown Josh Brown:How do you definitively make the statement, we are ahead? Are the models better, or is the monetization further along? How would you explain that?

17:13Dan Ives:There's one ship in the world fueling the AI revolution that's godfather of ai jensen so it's on the on the semiconductor side and when you look on the semi they're two to three years ahead of china their third rate chip is still probably a year ahead of where huawei is just to keep in perspective then you look at from a hyperscaler perspective where amazon where alphabet where microsoft is it's not even in the same category what you see in terms of big tech in china then from an from a model perspective anthropic and open ai you can't even compare those models to where we are in China from an open source perspective, whether it's DeepSeek or others.

17:53Dan Ives:China is ahead of us when it comes to robotics and energy. But the problem is that if you don't sell chips into China, and Jensen knows as well, who ultimately starts to narrow the gap? China. If you slow down model development, you know, again, on the like this week in Anthropic OpenAI, who wins? It's China because they're not slowing down.

18:17Downtown Josh Brown:So I want to pick that up, Tom, and come to you. As a portfolio manager, a CIO, an investor, I guess it was on Saturday.

18:27Dan Ives:Right during college football. Literally right in the middle of it.

18:30Downtown Josh Brown:Perfect timing. So everyone's minding their own business, watching college football, barbecuing at the beach and Dario Amadei, the founder of Anthropic, drops a blog post basically saying there is an emergency. I have seen things in my own labs that I am worried about. I've seen things happen at other labs that I'm worried about. And what we need to do as a society is immediately take steps to introduce outside observers into my company and other frontier labs. And we need to slow down this breakneck pace of development because if we don't, something's going to break. Super agents will hack us, et cetera.

19:19Downtown Josh Brown:So immediately he earns the support of half the people listening because they already think that. But the other half of the people, I won't say who, seem to have the attitude, look, if we're all going to die, goddammit, we're going to die from American AI. None of that commie crap. I want to be killed by the USNA AI. So the other half says, it's a hoax, ignore it, don't worry about it. How do you react to that when you hear that news? Uh, it's overdue actually, because, you know, every industry that grows always grows ahead of regulation. You know, there's this notion of SRO, self-regulatory organizations, and AI has zero today.

20:11Um, and it's coming at a time when like communities are protesting AI. There's like 38 anti-AI groups and there's like moratoriums on data centers. So to me, it's smart to say, let's self-regulate, one, and now we're acknowledging that we got issues so we can talk to the communities. It's not any different than wireless when, remember, 5G and people talked about the power emitted by phones? They tried to ban the cell towers.

20:40Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah. And there was federal legislation eventually that stopped that argument. That's right. And when I was covering wireless, you know, phones used to transmit at one watt. Now it's 25 milliwatts. because they were like, you're going to get brain cancer. Imagine if the FDA shut down the cellular industry because they didn't cut power. It's not that different than sort of limiting AI powers. We have multiple political battles over AI. One of them is resource use. Obviously, there's a lot of water, a lot of electricity. I know there's all sorts of arguments about why it matters, why it doesn't, but that's one vector.

21:16Downtown Josh Brown:Another vector is some of the founders of the largest AI companies have been a little bit loose, getting in front of podcast mics, making statements like 50 percent of all white collar jobs will disappear by 2030. And they walk them back eventually or they moderate their tone. But people don't unhear things. OK, so that's one vector, the job loss. And then the third, of course, is just this idea of a massive hack that could, you know, the next 1929 stock market crash or planes falling from the sky, things that we heard during the Y2K panic. it's the combined force of all of those that I think makes it so that you're probably right it's long overdue that the industry didn't have some sort of response but you seem to think the response is non-genuine meaning they're saying okay we need to calm down almost as though they're preempting other people from saying it yeah like think of it as it's 800 billion a year is the capex and it's going to go to 1.1 uh i don't think it's going to go to 400 it's really their want people to buy into this idea of like if i keep spending 800 billion a year we can help the community and by the way like we understand all your fears i i think it's a very smart move and of course as you know uh every ceo knows today they can they make public statements to influence politicians and voters not just shareholders dan is it marketing look i mean part of it is like

22:57Dan Ives:you needed to have a step in the right direction and safety no one no one denies that but the reality is dario himself and a lot of these tech companies like they created this pr nightmare themselves if you tell the american public you're going to lose your job to 50 white collar whatever And then electricity bills are going to go higher. They're not having celebrations when they build data centers in your backyard. You don't have to be Stephen Hawkins to figure that out. And part of the problem is that some of it is like when you get to the penthouse, then you stop the elevator so others can't come up.

23:34Dan Ives:So there is a regulatory capture piece. And that's why it comes down to like meta. You think they're slowing down? Look at how software stocks are performing. because everyone recognizes Anthropic OpenAI, they've had a huge lead. If you show up, who do you think wins? Software companies will narrow the gap. And I think Tom brings up great points, but you also have to separate between China's not slowing down. See, this is the reality. Yeah, actually. China, like... Well, yeah, to Dan's point, there is probably a big element at PSYOP, like where all this anti-data center stuff might just be China influencing public opinion here.

24:11Dan Ives:But if you... If the U.S. slows down, China wins. There's not even a debate on that. And that's why I just believe this weekend, you saw everyone back and forth go, it's a huge debate. But the reality is, and I think Jensen had a great commentary, and the Dell had a great commentary, because I think what they're basically saying, which is true, and George from CrowdStrike as well, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The innovation boom is happening. And at this point, you don't want politicians to basically put a halt on innovation because that would be the best thing that ever happened to Beijing.

24:51Dan Ives:What does China winning mean exactly? It means on chips, on models, on infrastructure, on robotics, all the technology that's going to be built in AI. If you slow down, they accelerate with Beijing putting gasoline into that. They're not slowing down at all. And that's why right now the reality is that I understand what Dario did, but I think there's unintended consequences about what he talked about. And then the average American consumer gets scared, some sci-fi movie, the robots are going to attack me. But also, Dan's got a good point in China winning, because remember, people rely on recursive loops.

25:38China controlling these models will make these recursive loops will like make you dumb, you know, like, or they'll like lead you to wrong conclusions. Like it's a kind of mind control. So I think it's important.

25:48Downtown Josh Brown:You guys have a view on the timing. So personally, I don't think it's coincidental that Mark Zuckerberg dropped Muse as a free to use open weight model on, I guess it was Thursday or Friday and within two days there was this emergency whoa whoa whoa we need to slow down is that too much of a conspiracy theory or do you guys think there's something to it I think it's

26:14Dan Ives:there's something to that concept along with just rising competition the anthropic researcher who was there for five weeks or six weeks you know obviously everything that that created but the reality is that this is not just Anthropic OpenAI and everyone else. Every other, it's the startups, it's the big tech companies that are going to narrow the gap and that's why this is not controlled by Dario and Anthropic. I think that message was loud and clear from Jensen.

26:45Michael Batnick:Do you think that we're going to be talking about this a month from now? Or are we going to be like, hey, remember when they said they were going to slow down? That was stupid.

26:53Dan Ives:Was that before the IPO or after they announced it? What do you think? I think you're going to talk about it. It will be, you'll hear it nonstop going into the midterm, especially the political debate, because it goes right into the big debate we're going to see in data centers. But the reality is, is that it's words versus action. And when you spend time in the Beltway, and we both have, you come out of there being like, these are not people that I want controlling our innovation. And I think that's the biggest risk that regulatory and the politics starts to halt.

27:32Downtown Josh Brown:Do either of you think there's a high likelihood of legislation even being proposed to tackle this issue between now and the end of the year? Or are they too busy still trying to pass the Clarity Act, which was first proposed three years ago for Donald Trump's second term? Like, how long does this sort of thing take to work itself through the pipeline? Yeah, I mean, can you imagine the bill? It's like, hey, AI can't be that good. Like, that's the law. Like, you know what I mean? So I think it's going to be tough. I don't know. I mean, I think it's smart to debate all these things. But as you know, it's like regulators understand they're behind.

28:14I think it's just, it's going to have to be self-regulated. And that's what they're proposing, right? We evaluate each other's model. They don't want the government sitting in the middle of that. Well, time out.

28:25Dan Ives:Tom made a very important point there about the self-regulation versus...

28:30Downtown Josh Brown:Immediately following the publishing of that op-ed, to your point, Sam Altman came out on X and basically said, yeah, we agree. We'll do the same thing. And then Elon Musk, I think he put a heart on it. So those are the three frontier models. Is there a fourth beyond DeepMind Gemini?

28:49Dan Ives:But the reality is, and Karp talks about it all the time, Palantir, sovereign AI. Because the biggest risk to the models is sovereign AI. I'm going to control my data. I'm not going to have the models access. And that's why, like, NVIDIA, Palantir, many others talk about sovereign AI. That continues to be the big debate versus the model. Because more and more. Explain that. Because you're going to have hundreds of models. Like when we're here at Future Proven, probably it goes all the way down to Newport by then. Like you're going to have hundreds of models. The models will eventually become commoditized.

29:28Dan Ives:Sovereign AI is basically sovereign data is that I'm going to have control on my data as a company. I'm not just going to let the model companies get that access because then you could argue there's risk ultimately to your business model depending on where that goes.

29:44Downtown Josh Brown:So corporations will train their own model with their own data that is not available to other models. And that's a risk to the general AI model. And they'll try to corrupt public data, right? I mean, competition is make public data less trustworthy.

29:59Michael Batnick:So Elon Musk is not exactly known for being a scaredy cat. What do you think his motivation is in saying, yeah, we actually do need to slow down?

30:07Dan Ives:Because the reality is that Musk knows from a model perspective, they're way behind anthropic and open AI. So they need to slow down so he can catch up. Look, this is like one of those things where, yeah, there's like Musk has talked about the concept of safety and he's been consistent with that. But the reality is anthropic and open AI are so far ahead. No one could really catch them unless there's a regulatory capture type of moment. And that speaks to – and that's part of the issue is that like on the weekend when that happened and everyone's like, oh, it's going to be a black month. And, you know, black month, the stocks are going to crush this.

30:45Dan Ives:Semis did. But the reality is like we're going to look out a month from now. And I view these as opportunities relative to the stock selling off on this moment. So, semis are down 19 % from their high.

30:58Michael Batnick:NVIDIA just keeps reporting miraculous quarter after another. and the stock cannot really get out of the mud, what is it going to take for investors to get excited about these stocks again? Tom, are we going to see new all-time highs for the semis in 2026? Yeah, I think, you know, if one wanted to think about NVIDIA and its model evolving and it has a low PE, that was Apple's story, right? Because remember, no one gave them credit for the App Store and the fact that they control basically all the real estate. and then one day Apple's multiple doubled. I think it is, anyone who owns NVIDIA should take comfort.

31:37I mean, you're paying 16 times and you're paying 50 times to buy Costco and 48 times to buy Walmart. And the market is going to flip it someday because if NVIDIA charged a membership fee, the multiple would go to 50, right?

31:54Michael Batnick:That doesn't scare you at all that the market is discounting it so much? You think the market has it wrong? But there's a whole history of stocks that get re-rated because it's reluctance. Like, many people have not made money in AI. You know, I talk to fund managers that have underweight or zero exposure to AI because they thought it was a bubble. But, like, it's very difficult to say this is a bubble because it's a structural story.

32:22Dan Ives:But the bears have called 10 of the last two downturns. Yeah. So this would be... So I think the institutional world still has a lot more room to buy more AI and to buy IPOs. And so I and I and it's then it's at family offices. I mean, Anthropic and OpenAI are creating wealth, but it's a narrow number of people that actually invested in that.

32:45Downtown Josh Brown:I want to pivot to one of the bigger stories from earlier this year that had a pretty surprising outcome. All four of us were at Future Proof citywide in Miami, which is almost exactly six months ago. And at that time in March, the biggest story in the stock market was the SaaSpocalypse. Some of the largest publicly traded companies in America, including Salesforce, Microsoft, virtually every software company you could think of, were in drawdowns that were anywhere between 20 and 60 percent. I should add, not one of them had missed the earnings quarter or had anything fundamental happen to their business.

33:28Downtown Josh Brown:I have never seen such a sudden sentiment de-risking in a group as large as these stocks were. Now we're six months past that. And it looks like the market has realized, oh, wait a minute. We may have gone overboard. I would love to hear just an update on how you guys feel about that idea that the LLMs are basically going to displace some of the most important publicly traded companies in the world.

33:58Dan Ives:I would say, and I thought at the time, in my whole career, it's the most head-scratching I've ever seen. Because the narrative - And you said that in real time, to your credit. Because the narrative, it was a false, fictional narrative that was a bad fairy tale. Because anyone that talked to any CIO or any user and understanding where the models were going, I'm not saying that like an Adobe and an Intuit that they don't have structural issues because AI. But the view that it was going to wipe out ServiceNow, it was going to wipe out Salesforce, Palantir, Anthropoc was going to eat their lunch.

34:38Dan Ives:That was almost like bad comedy, the concept of it. And I think it just shows in this market, narratives create the opportunities. Go back to like anyone that was at RSA's security conference, cybersecurity, like that was like in April. Anthropoc releases right around then, like, okay, cybersecurity, we're putting out a solution. Stocks are getting crushed. I'm with George from CrowdStrike. Like everyone's like, the space is done. Dude, there might not even be an RSA security conference next year. Now look at CrowdStrike. I'm just saying like narratives create the opportunity.

35:13Downtown Josh Brown:The three largest cybersecurity stocks, CrowdStrike, Fortinet, Palo Alto, are all up 100 % plus on the year. So that didn't take long for that narrative to take root and then just be completely uprooted. Yeah, I mean, one, I think investors now understand software stocks are downstream beneficiaries of AI. You know, they're not victims of a boogeyman. But the idea of like fire ready aim, like people pushing a button and basically taking their allocation to zero, that's gotten easy. I mean, remember what COVID did and people hit the kill switch. Every time the Fed says they're going to hike, someone decides the entire stock market.

35:57It's too easy to trade. Yeah.

35:58Dan Ives:Okay. And Josh, it's like the use cases. Now, as you get into the second, third, fourth derivative, it's software. Look at Snowflake. Look at what's starting to play. I think that's just very important, the use case side.

36:13Michael Batnick:Do you guys think that we're ever going to get the robot trade, like for real, for real? Is that what's going to take the S &P higher? When does that come? What does that look like? Well, you know, one, there are actually already robot use cases today. We have one making coffee right there. Did you see it?

36:35Downtown Josh Brown:I think it's at Franklin's booth. So that's a good use case. Everyone likes coffee. We have to be careful. That robot could kill us. I have to make the coffee kill everybody. That stops me. But, you know, I think it's a big deal because it's probably the opportunity to really create productivity in the economy. Imagine in the future, robots will bring stonemasonry back. So your home looks like the Louvre and they stone carve and wood carve. So I think it's a real multiplier. Is robotics a big enough TAM to be the next, next thing that the Dow is at 50 ,000? like what takes the Dow to 250 ,000, which I know sounds outrageous, but it's a quadruple.

37:26Downtown Josh Brown:We tend to have those every 20 years or so. Is it that or is it space? What do you guys think? From a macro perspective, robots could be a huge economic multiplier. Because remember, historically, the economy is labor and productivity is output. And productivity is a result of capital. OK, so it's only two units, two levers to pull. If you add robots, you actually have a third productive output unit that may not consume people or capital. So we could actually, an economy that solves robots could grow without inflation. Like, in other words, a Fed could let 7 % GDP growth happen. And actually, it could rejuvenate Japan because now there's robots will be economic consumers and tax paying units.

38:18This is going to solve like government deficits. So it's it might be an ideal scenario. Imagine like robots create their economy and humans just get the dividends. Right.

38:28Dan Ives:But also, I think it's it's physical AI is a broader set in terms like autonomous technology. technology. Yeah. And like, I think there's a bit, because you could argue physical AI will be bigger from a, from a CapEx spend than anything we've already seen.

38:47Michael Batnick:What is physical AI?

38:48Dan Ives:Physical AI is, I mean, you could talk about robotics, but it's really, it's what I view as like autonomous technology. It's like, eventually we're going to see more and more use cases on the robotic side. But physical AI to me is the golden goose. Like autonomous, true autonomous technology, I believe will be one of the biggest technology innovations that we ever see. That speaks to where Tesla is and everything that they're doing and why so much of, when it comes to robotaxi and the whole vision. Yeah, but just keep in mind, if it's physical AI, but they're replacing human jobs, it's negative to the economy.

39:29If it's robots creating their own economy, then it grows the economy. So it won't just be physical AI because actually that would replace jobs and the economy would shrink.

39:39Downtown Josh Brown:A whole ecosystem built around robotics where the needs of the robots become an input to overall GDP. Yeah, that's the only way to grow the economy because if robots are just replacing jobs, then the apocalypse is correct.

39:52Dan Ives:And for NVIDIA, and Jensen talks about this, physical ai in that sense robot that that's kind of the holy grail is tesla the primary way

40:03Downtown Josh Brown:besides an etf like if someone were looking for like what is the stock that has the highest likelihood of making me money in the robotic the autonomous future it's like tesla and everyone else, right? Yeah, I don't know. Or is NVIDIA in that race? I'd put SpaceX in that.

40:23Dan Ives:But then it's my view, at some point by the end of next year, those companies merge. It's my view, Tesla and SpaceX. How would that work? I mean, look, obviously, that's going to be the big question. But for Musk, that's the golden vision that Tesla and SpaceX are under one hood, not just from a data perspective, but in terms of all the AI technology that they're building. that that ultimately becomes one company. Be the biggest company in the world. Yeah, and I view it, like we've said, it's over an 80 % chance by the end of next year that Tesla and SpaceX ultimately merge. Can we have -

41:02Downtown Josh Brown:Oh, please, go ahead.

41:03Michael Batnick:One other narrative that I think has shifted, at least for me it certainly has. I was talking to Mark Noonan, your technical analyst. Do consumer discretionary stocks matter anymore? And I say this because we were talking last week on the show. If you look at a ratio of the equal weight consumer discretionary ETF, and you divide that by the equal weight S &P 500, that line has been going down forever. It continues to make new lows. So people go, oh, look at TJ Maxx or Ross Stores or what. It doesn't matter. Does it matter? Yeah, I mean, the problem with consumer discretionary, because I'm going to give you the strategist's understanding, is, do you know, historically, consumer discretionary is what you call the catch-all sector.

41:57So you define a stock as it's an industrial, a tech, healthcare company, staples, and whatever is not anything is consumer discretionary. So what you're highlighting is the uncategorized companies is actually just shrinking. You know what I mean? Like, because consumer discretionary spending hasn't changed, but now it's like your iPhone spent and that's in tech. And it's like you go to Costco, that's actually now in consumer staples. So that's really why discretionary shrinking. I mean, Delta is a consumer discretionary stock if you think about it, right?

42:34Michael Batnick:Like that is obviously discretionary spending. Yeah. But in theory, Delta actually should probably be considered an oil trading company because they own a refiner and they trade oil, and that's a source of their profits. I don't even know where Delta is. Is it a transport? Is it an industrial? I honestly don't know. It's an industrial because it's an airline. They're probably like a membership company.

42:54Downtown Josh Brown:Which is a transport. Right. I mean, they're like a membership. They want you to try to get Delta diamonds, so you just use Delta. That's like Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt. They don't even own the properties. They're a points company. Yeah. They're marketing and membership, and somebody else owns the real estate. That's why they're not real. Yeah. Okay. What are you guys excited about in the near future or for 2027? What are some of the things that we haven't brought up that you actually are bullish about? I mean I I will say that in this conversation with AI and then physical AI and robots it is not lost upon the financial industry that this is a huge deal because remember half like in the real world there's economy and then you have to represent it on a financial ledger so literally always everything that happens in the real world half of it happens in the financial world and the The financial industry knows they're not equipped to deal with robots because robots have micropayments.

43:58They could be fraud. They don't know who sends the instructions. So there's a real innovation taking place in the financial services world. Actually a lot of it is going to be built on blockchain. I mean, as you know, Robinhood thinks the entire system settles on blockchains and BlackRock and JP Morgan now sees blockchain as the future. So I think financial industry is going through a huge revolution in a good way. I think the best companies are going to turn into technology stocks. I think the PE of like J.P. Morgan is going to be 50.

44:28Downtown Josh Brown:The big financial services companies will start being valued more like tech companies. I think they need to be valued like that today because today on January 1, J.P. Morgan already knows like 70 % of its earnings without even like opening a branch. I mean, what companies have that visibility? Maybe Costco. Well, Costco trades at 50 times. So I think the financial industry is actually a big winner of AI and tech. Their multiples go up. But, of course, that means crypto is a huge winner because that's really where all this is going to take place.

45:02Dan Ives:Dan, you take on board with anything you just said? No. I mean, I think to further his point, utility companies, energy. When you think about the AI and the build-out, we're in the early stages of it's going to be an innovation boom in the United States. And we talk about Fourth Industrial Revolution. You talk about U.S. and China. Think about Middle East, Europe, Australia. The whole point is it's a two-horse race, us and them. And I still think it's very underappreciated, the boom that's about to happen in this country. I'm not just talking about five tech companies It's the spread It's the innovation It's the jobs that I ultimately believe More jobs will be created Than taken away when it's all said and done Because of the innovation boom That's going to happen Especially for so many young people From engineers to so many Other sort of industries That to me And that will spread across the market In the time we have left

46:06Downtown Josh Brown:What do you guys think? Can we do some tickers with the fellas? Sounds good. All right. Let's do a few. Love to just get, you know, not a research report, but like what people need to know about the stocks that they're involved with. Let's start with Apple. This is a company that we heard for two years, doesn't understand AI, is behind, doesn't have a strategy, et cetera, et cetera. The stock is probably the closest to a record high of all of the mag seven names and that lack of a capex budget for data centers or its own llm seems now to uh look more like an advantage than a than a deficit what are your

46:50Dan Ives:thoughts on apple i mean i think 20 of the world is going to access ai through an apple device the install base you talk about apple in the early days like in terms of not getting the valuation because of services and app store. I think it's something that investors are just going to start to appreciate as the consumer AI revolution takes hold, how Apple is going to be able to monetize. And I think Ternus obviously taking over for the Hall of Famer Cook, it's going to be an innovation and it's going to be AI enabled devices in a consumer AI world. And I think that's something where Apple now is going to be front and center in terms of how many consumers going to access AI?

47:31Downtown Josh Brown:Here's one for you. One of the coolest things that's happened over the last three years, all the tech stocks from my youth became the hottest stocks in the market again. The ones that are still alive. Cisco and Dell have seen their market caps triple or yeah, he flipped Bezos, right? Yes. Sienna is still out there running around, corning. I'm guessing you and I are the same generation. I'm guessing that's a lot of fun for you to watch also. Are you surprised by how popular the hardware box makers have become? Switches, routers, servers? You know, for many years, technology experts and tech investors always said, a company that's on the A shelf, when they miss numbers and they fall to D, they never come back.

48:21So there was this idea that, hey, Cisco is dead. It's never going to come back. And many years ago, already a lot of stocks were getting rejuvenated, you know. So I think it's what's proven is what we understand to be a moat is actually much more than a 12 month horizon, because all these companies are describing have an embedded customer base and they actually have real estate and they're already in the right places. You know, I mean, like advantages that can't happen. And like today, if you're trying to create a new wire frame, you know, bare metal company to do data centers, you can't do. So these it's good for the stock market because the stock market, you know, 30 percent of the return come from in the S &P comes from companies that didn't exist 10 years ago.

49:08But the majority of the return comes from all the value stocks, too.

49:12Downtown Josh Brown:Yeah. So that's why if someone doesn't think you can get to S &P 16 ,000, 80 % of what will get us there is already in your portfolio. Palantir.

49:23Dan Ives:I mean, look, I continue to view what Carpenter - This is one of your favorite stocks. Look, Palantir, it's gone from the teenager or elementary school to obviously going on its way to$200. I think it's something investors massively underappreciate how advanced their technology is. And obviously it started off in the government. But what they're doing on the enterprise world, it's changed the enterprise. It's changed the sales cycle. And I think this is going to be a name that's really going to transform the way enterprises spend. But if you compare the market cap to any metric, investors are appreciating it.

50:09Dan Ives:I think it's a true. I mean, I view it as like this is a stock that could appreciate four or five X from here over the next three to four years, given the cash flow. That's the next trillion one. Because to me, it's a trillion dollar name because it's about the free cash flow that investors, you know, they underestimate it. And then all of a sudden, it's not that expensive on a free cash flow perspective. I think Palantir is a good example. You talk about Dell or you talk about Cisco. This is just the start of just so many more of these companies find that next gear. Last one.

50:47Downtown Josh Brown:Anthropic, we think, comes public in October. What's your take on what we should expect? Will it open well? Will it be a trillion and a half, two trillion? Like what kind of guidance are you giving people that ask you about Anthropic? Is it a granny shot? Anthropic is going to be tough to qualify as a granny shot. Too hard. Yeah. I mean, you know, the Labs models, Frontier models, they're all racing because they think there's only going to be one that wins, right? So everyone else. They think it's going to be Google in search, right? Like, they'll be like the one category. Yeah, you're just going to be, they all solve to one and then that's it.

51:33So, I mean, it's a race. I'm sure people are going to need to own both. I mean, that's kind of how I would play it. But, you know, if it's value of$5 trillion, it's the same argument why it's valued at a trillion. So, like, we just want one out.

51:46Dan Ives:And Anthropics is a transformational name that's really, they're going to transition from a model player to really an enterprise player. I mean, that's essentially why, you know, you see them building that enterprise sales force to where they are. So, look, I think we are still early days. We've talked about this is a 1997 moment, not a 1999-2000 moment. I want to do one more thing.

52:10Downtown Josh Brown:Michael, you have the clicker? Okay. We're going to make an announcement. For those of you who like to travel and want to come to New York, we're going to tell you guys, scan this QR code. We are extremely excited. to be introducing a new event. This will be in December in New York. Rob, am I getting any of this right or wrong? December, New York. What's the date? December 8th in New York. The compound is coming to Broadway. Give that a round.

52:42Downtown Josh Brown:Everybody needs an excuse to come to New York around that time of year. Hopefully we can be your excuse. I'm super excited to let you guys know you are the first to hear about this. if you want to be able to get tickets because it's a big theater but not that big the best way to make sure you do that subscribe to the Compound Insider we're going to give the Compound Insider folks the first heads up as those tickets become available and we're super excited to see anyone there that wants to come out and support us as we take our show to a pretty big stage and again it's all thanks to all of you guys I want to say a huge thank you to our guests today two of the greatest ever to do it ladies and gentlemen Dan Ives one time Dan Tom Lee guys on behalf of all of our listeners all of our viewers you're so great every time you come on we appreciate it congratulations on all of your ventures and thank you so much for your insights and your wisdom thank you guys thank you so much we'll see you soon Thank you.

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