Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation

26:05Brené Brown:Yes. But otherwise, what's the point? I don't know. It's like... Did you watch Hamlet? No, I haven't. Wait, hold on a second. I'm not even recovered yet. Okay, it's a little bit like riding a roller coaster. You can get this sensation. I love those. Oh, you do? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you also remember, like you feel like you're falling and you're going to die, but you also know that you're buckled in.

26:42Brené Brown:I can, that's definitely what I do on a roller coaster. I can't do that in a visual medium. Only in visual. So can you, can you read a book with awkward interactions or can you, could you read Stephen King? Hysterically. I have read. I can read far past my tolerance for visual violence. Yes. And what is it about the visuals that transports you? I mean, is it literally just feeling like you're there and having all of your senses active? I blame my parents because we were not allowed to watch anything. Like we were, it was so strict. We couldn't even watch shows where kids were disrespectful to their parents.

27:29Brené Brown:Like, and we could watch, yeah, I saw Smokey and the Bandit with my grandmother who was like a Pearl Bird drinking, cigarette smoking, um, like no boundaries person. And I, even when I got home from my San Antonio summer, I was grounded for four weeks for watching a PG movie when I was 15, probably. Yeah. Like we just, we were very strict. And so I don't, maybe I didn't learn to differentiate, but I don't think it's that maybe I'm just visually porous. I believe that. I want to pose this moral question. Is there something wrong with me because I can't watch Game of Thrones? Or is there something wrong with the people who can watch it because they can watch it?

28:15Well, there's a lot more of them than there are of you. So I guess something wrong with could be defined multiple ways.

28:22Brené Brown:I don't care about population. I I mean, like, is it okay that I'm not desensitized to violence?

28:31So maybe no one's wrong.

28:32Brené Brown:Maybe no one's wrong. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't see this as a moral issue at all. Right, me neither. I watched the first two seasons of Game of Thrones and thought it was really interesting and well done, but found the violence too gratuitous and didn't want to go on. Why didn't you just tell yourself it's like a roller coaster? Oh, I did. But the images just like, I was just like, ah, there's a lot of good content out there. And a lot of the shows I watch, I'm not ambivalent about. So I don't need to engage with this one. Okay, you got to stop. I'm going to take you back. You just said and went like this.

29:08Brené Brown:The images were like, eh, ew. Like, let's go back to that moment. Unpack that for me. The images were what? I mean, it's, how would I describe it? It's like, it's gross and it's a little upsetting. And it's not like watching a Civil War movie where there's a reason for depicting it. Like, you don't have to show me all this. It felt like the gore version of clickbait. whereas when you watch The Office, it serves a purpose. Like they're making a point. Wow, I'm just realizing just how subjective all this is, right? It is because I guess, you know, as I listened to this discussion or as I reflect on what I just said, I think that maybe Game of Thrones was trying to make a point about the brutality of the world that they were depicting.

30:11but I don't know that that point needs to be made or at least it doesn't need to be made to me whereas you don't get the office without awkwardness and Brunei you are the queen of awkward it's in your tagline stay brave and you say stay awkward so don't you want to raise your awkwardness tolerance?

30:36Brené Brown:is it the

30:40Brené Brown:Oh, I don't even want to say this out loud. It makes me, I don't even think I want to know this about myself. Because I'm trying to think about whether it's the awkwardness or the rule-breaking that's really hard for me.

31:01Brené Brown:you know it's like i and and i'm not talking about political correctness because i mean that doesn't really bother me and i can find a lot of humor in that sometimes um but when you said maybe they were trying to maybe in game of thrones they were trying to teach a lesson or make a point about the brutality of the world they had created maybe but but i don't need to learn that lesson And maybe it's for me, maybe with the office, they're trying to make a point about the just terrible idea of putting groups of people together in the workplace and expecting it to go well. I don't know what the point is, but that's funny.

31:44Brené Brown:But they don't need to make it to me. I already know that. And I don't, and I just think it's the, it could be like my, the first born rule following, do you know what I mean? Yeah. That is just. Yeah. It could be. I just.

32:08I can relate to that. But I think that, I think world-class comedy is rare. and I think The Office was the funniest material on television for a whole decade and the characters are so, they're so quirky and so lovable despite the rules that they break and the norms they violate. I just, I think it's like not watching The Office is like not watching Friends or not having seen Star Wars. It's just a core part of our culture.

32:39Brené Brown:Don't bring Star Wars into it. Star Wars is like very much up my alley and Star Trek. But let me ask you this. I wish you were the kind of psychologist where you had like the couch and you could analyze me. What does it mean that if I'm going to share a meme with someone to convey something, 90 % of the memes I share are from the office? It means you're a careful student of culture, even when you're not fully up to speed or in the loop. it means you're paying attention that's yeah no because i think they're really funny and the memes are so good and like dwight and the beat for i could probably talk to you about it ad nauseum as if i'd watched it the other one i can't watch is veep i'm like the thing the thing the thought bubble that's going off all the time in my head is you can't say that you can't do that saying that is not okay you know doing that is not okay like that's what's going off in my head the whole time.

33:40Brene, but this is, I mean, this is, it's one of the core pillars of comedy. I'm sure you've read Peter McGraw's benign violations theory of humor.

33:51Brené Brown:I doubt, no, I have not. Oh, I mean, it's probably become the most influential theory of humor. And this, I mean, I think giant warning label analyzing comedy almost always kills it. But Peter does these highly entertaining studies in his lab where basically the easiest way to get someone to laugh other than just kind of simple physical comedy is you create a benign violation. So something happens that shouldn't, but it's also harmless. And people find that inherently funny. I think it's really hard to create clever comedy without violations of norms and rules. okay this is so helpful why this is so helpful i don't like it when people violate rules do you know what i don't like this is probably why i struggle with a lot of comedians although i i but although i can watch comedy specials and really laugh hard.

35:00Brené Brown:I do not like your reverence. It's related to the sarcasm discussion we had early on. Is it? Yeah, I think it is. That's my favorite kind of humor. But I'm very sarcastic. You are. That's true. But we don't always like to receive what we send, right? No, I like sarcastic people too. Case in point. Let's take a specific example. I just want to get your reaction to one of my all-time favorite office scenes, which I think is a great example of a benign violation. Okay. So do you know, do you know that Jim likes to prank Dwight and that? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So some of the pranks I think are just genius.

35:44And my favorite one is there's an episode where Dwight picks up the phone and accidentally slams himself in the ear with it. Like basically just clocks himself in the side of the head. And the camera cuts to Jim saying something to the effect of every day I've been unscrewing Dwight's phone. And the first day I put one nickel in it. And then the second day I added a second nickel. And for months I've been adding nickels to make the phone handle heavier and heavier and heavier. And today I took them all out. And then the phone handle is just too light. And he just whacks himself in the head. First of all, I mean, the genius of the person who came up with this prank, I cannot, I want to hang out with that writer every day.

36:34But more important than that is the fact that this is a benign violation. You are not supposed to cause your coworker to hit himself in the head, but also you're not going to leave a mark and it happened on TV. And the office is full of these kinds of moments. How can you not love that?

36:54Brené Brown:I do love that prank. I think that's funny. I do love a prank. Yeah. I do. I do love a prank. Yeah. That's funny. So how many of these do I have to give you before you decide that the pros are worth the cons? I don't know. I'm going to, I'm going to have to think about it. I do love a good prank. I mean, like, I'm a terrible person because, like, the funny, the Instagrams where I'm laughing so hard where I think I'm going to pass out because I can't breathe are, like, people getting scared.

37:28Brené Brown:Those are really funny to me. I don't know why because I scare really easily. I don't know. I'm going to have to think about it. I don't like the, did you think Scott's Tots was a funny episode where he promised all the kids and they celebrate them their whole K through 12 life and then it's time for them to graduate and they're going to be the first cohort going to college. and... I mean, that was a little sad. But what made me okay with that episode, even though it's not a storyline I would have written, it's not one of my favorite episodes from the show at all, is you have Michael Scott, and if you just take him at face value, you think he's a jerk.

38:07But what you forget is he's in this documentary stuck in Scranton, Pennsylvania at a paper company, and he's trying to become famous. He's trying to become a reality TV star. And so he does all these idiotic things in front of a camera to try to get attention. And it's a parody of how reality TV works in our culture. And that makes it funny to me. Because he's basically saying, this is what somebody would do to try to get famous.

38:36Brené Brown:Maybe I could watch it with you. You want me to, I'm going to pause and analyze every two minutes and I'm going to just ruin the whole thing for you. No, no. Maybe if you could just do a running thing, that would be really helpful for me. I'm in. I've been waiting for an excuse to rewatch it, but we should also listen to the Office Ladies podcast afterward. Yeah, I've listened to the podcast. I've listened to several episodes of it. You have no idea how much I love the actors in The Office. They are amazing. All right. They are amazing. We're adding this to our to-do list. Okay. Okay, wait. One request for listeners.

39:11If you have an episode that you want us to either move to the top of the queue or to talk about the implications of, let us know.

39:22This show is brought to you by Geico. You know, so much of what we explore on this show comes down to one question. Who shows up? Not when it's easy, not when it's convenient, but when it actually counts. We talk a lot about trust on this show. And here's what I've come to believe. Trust isn't built in the big moments. It's built in all the small ones that prove someone will be there for the big ones. And honestly, the people and things we trust most are the ones that are consistent day in and day out. That's what I keep coming back to. Whether it's a relationship, a community, or yes, even the insurance you choose, the question is always the same.

39:56When it counts, will they be there? That's what I appreciate about GEICO. When something goes wrong, you know they'll show up. Real people who care, straightforward coverage, and the kind of service that makes a hard moment easier to get through. We don't walk around thinking about who's in our corner until we need someone in our corner. And that's when you can count on GEICO. When it matters most, it feels good to have someone show up. It feels good to GEICO. Can we talk about how to get out of a conversation? So I need to tell you a story.

40:28Brené Brown:Okay. Oh, God, I'm worried. I'm so worried, y 'all. I'm so worried. Make me look good. Oh, it's not about you. Don't worry. Oh, perfect. Great. You're the contrast to the story. I thought it was something you witnessed. Okay. So we were at this conference last week and I went to the gym with a couple other attendees in the morning. And one of them is a fitness nut and offered very generously to play personal trainer and lead the rest of us through a workout. And so we show up, we're a couple minutes into our workout. And the other guy who's with us gets accosted by somebody I think I've met at the conference once before.

41:11And the guy basically just launches into what had to have been a nine minute story. And I'm watching my friend, he's got this look on his face, like he's trying to be polite, but he's also trying to figure out how to get out of the conversation. And meanwhile, it's holding up the whole rotation that we're in because we're on a circuit. And he's just too nice to say, excuse me, I need to do a set. Or could you cut to the chase? Which obviously would be a little rude.

41:41Brené Brown:And I watched that happen. I realized I have been this guy my whole life. I am constantly in conversations that I don't know how to get out of. I avoid phone calls. Sometimes I just don't even answer because I'm afraid if I pick up, I won't be able to exit the conversation. It just, it feels rude to cut someone off. And the contrast between that and what I saw you do in the middle of conversations, just say like, excuse me for a second and then give someone a reason to walk away. I was like, okay, this is a skill that you have that I want to learn. how do you leave a conversation without making somebody else feel bad?

42:23Okay.

42:24Brené Brown:I, I'm still like shocked about the workout person that came in, saw people working out and jumped into a nine minute story. It was, I, that was, yeah, it was shocking. And he was not reading the room at all. Okay. So I, I've, I've been thinking about it and I did pull an interesting lit review, which I actually think is helpful to talk about some of the research because I didn't really have words for what I did until I read the literature. The way I always think about it in my mind was I always thought about it, even try to teach it to my kids with this metaphor, pull the bandaid, rip the bandaid off and leave some relational sticky.

43:11Ooh. Tell me more.

43:14Brené Brown:That's how I always thought about it. Like, I'm going to exit stage left when I'm ready and when I need to, but I am going to do it in a way that's highly relational. And so had I not read the lit review preparing for this conversation, I wouldn't have understood what I was doing. So this is like a win for research. So I'm going to do these things. I didn't know they were, I didn't know they had names. Have you ever had that experience with research? Like you're like, here's what I do intuitively. All the time. And then here's, isn't it wild? Love it. God, I love it. I love it. So why do I love it so much?

43:55It's both validating and enlightening at the same time.

43:59Brené Brown:Yes. Okay. I feel seen and also now I can talk about it. Yes. It gives me language. Cause you know, it's not helpful to say, well, just, you got to rip off the conversation in like a bandaid atom, but just make sure you leave some relational stickiness on that person when you pull it off. Like, you're like, not helpful, right? Not yet. Okay. So here, here's, and we're going to put all of this research in the show notes so you can go to the actual articles. But here's some interesting things I learned. The polite assumption that they want to keep talking is almost always wrong based on the research.

44:37Brené Brown:Exiting earlier is usually doing the other person a favor. It's not a slight. I love framing this as pro-social. Yes. It was a landmark study of 932 conversations. Oh, wait, is this Master Yanni and Gilbert? Yes, it is. Yes. Okay. So, God, it's so wild that you do that. God, in this last season of my life, let me have the ability to recall research like Adam Grant. You don't want it. Amen. Okay. It's a curse. I do want it. Okay. It isn't. Okay. I want to talk about some of the findings of that research, actually, because I think they're very relevant here. Let's do it. But no, I want to hear the rest of what you found first.

45:18Brené Brown:Okay. This is what I thought was interesting. This is how you, something that I just kind of do intuitively, I guess, but it actually breaks it down. A typical closing has, well, one thing to say is they are collaboratively negotiated, not unilaterally announced. So I want you to sit with that for a second. Yes, it's so good that a conversation end or graceful exit is collaboratively negotiated, not unilaterally announced. and what helps that is a four-part sequence. One, a pre-closing token, which is, and this is across culture. Okay, well, oops, time's up, or oh, some kind of, oh, great catch up, I'll send that link.

46:15Brené Brown:Some kind of pre-closing token is really helpful, followed by an arrangement or summary. So okay or well, number one, I'll follow up on that. It was so good to see you. That's number two. Number three, terminal exchange. Take care. You two have a great conference. And then four, a farewell, which is bye-bye. So one, tell you a funny story about one. One, okay or well, this is your closing token. Two, an arrangement or summary. Great catching up. I'll send that link. Good to see you. Some kind of summary. Three, a terminal exchange. Take care, you too. Four, a farewell or bye. And then this researcher writes, skipping straight to bye feels rude precisely because it omits the pre-closing collaboration.

47:09Yep. Yep. Where, okay, this makes a ton of sense, where you're signaling that it's time for the conversation to end before you've actually said it out loud.

47:18Brené Brown:Do you know in another set of research, the signaling is so strong with your body, kind of like angling toward the exit area moving, that in this other study that I read, when patients see physicians start to do the signaling of a close, that's when they're most likely to say, oh, I've got a couple of last minute questions. I've got Just a couple more questions because they can see the collaborative dance start to happen. Yeah. Time's running out. I better spill. Okay. This is why, this is Brown and Levinson's politeness theory. Do you know this work? A little bit. Not well. Okay. Frames leaving a conversation as a face-threatening act.

48:09Brené Brown:It can imply the partner is boring or unimportant or that you're imposing a constraint. So this four steps really helps collaboratively in something. I just do it intuitively. So I will say, oh, shoot, it was so good to see you. I've got to run. Can't wait to catch up again. Much harder when you're in the same captive location. So I was thinking about the conference where we both were. Even if I've got to run from one huddle of people talking or just one other person to another one-on-one that is literally 10 feet away, I will still do this. Oh, shoot, I just saw so-and-so. I promised him I'd give him some information.

48:55Brené Brown:It was so good to catch up. Glad we get to be at the conference together. I'll see you soon. Tell me about these four steps for you. Oh, I like them a lot. I think, actually to go back to the Gottmans, in Gottman language, you're making a bid. You're making a bid. Here's a bid. I'm sending you a message that I would love to collaborate in wrapping up this conversation. And unless you're oblivious or from a different culture or neurodivergent, you're going to pick up that signal and start collaborating to close it out because it would be very awkward to track me back into it as I'm trying to leave.

49:33Brené Brown:I mean, I think that's right. Yeah, I like that a lot. And I think your list of caveats is also big, important. Yeah, I think a lot of these situations may, I think the caveats might capture some of the situations where it's hard because you initiate the collaboration and the other person denies the bid as opposed to accepting it. What do I do? Should I just be more direct? I don't want to hurt their feelings. Yes.

50:00Brené Brown:I think that's when I do the soft hand on the forearm. I'm so sorry. I'm so glad you're here. I want to catch up later. I've got to run. It's so good to see you. That's my, what I talk about when rip it off, but leave the relational sticky. One of the things I've been thinking about from a work perspective in the work that I do with leaders is this is why it's so difficult for transactional leaders to lead real transformation. They don't leave behind any relational residue, even when they have to cut things short. Exactly right. And so it feels abrupt and impersonal and just instrumental task-focused.

50:40Brené Brown:Yeah, I got what I need. I'm leaving now. Yep. So there's no collaborative closing. Yeah, you're a means to an end for me. I mean, that's exactly right. One thing that I highlighted in this little lit review that I did, I want you to diagnose this sentence for me. Are you ready? Ready. This is, again, this is part of how to, this is my how to exit a conversation gracefully lit review. For introverts specifically, the literature suggests the discomfort that drives early exit is not a social deficit. It surfaces a coordination signal the other person was likely also feeling but suppressing. Okay.

51:19So.

51:23Brené Brown:Do you read it again? No, I'm just thinking, I'm actually, I'm connecting it to the Masaryani and Gilbert paper. For sure. Okay. So that study of nearly a thousand conversations. The thing I remember so vividly from it is that of all those conversations, only 2 % ended when both people wanted them to. That's right. 98 % of the time, at least one person is not happy with how long the conversation went. And I think their takeaway, which is resonant for introverts, is it's better to leave too soon than too late. Leave people wanting more, not less. I think that's true. I like, in this research, Mastroianni?

52:13Brené Brown:Is that how we're pronouncing it? I think it's Mastroianni. Master Yanni. Okay. The authors frame ending a conversation actually as a coordination problem. The conflict is in coordinating the end, not in wanting to end. Right. Yes. Which is what you're saying. Yes, exactly. And the coordination is tricky in part because our feelings change during the conversation. Yeah. How often have you been in a conversation where the first few minutes you thought, okay, we didn't click, forget it. And then a few minutes later, you're really into it. Many. Yeah. So there's the dance, the dance of leaving is happening at the same time.

53:01Sometimes it's the dance of, wait, I actually want to stay. You know, it drives me crazy. What? When somebody says, sometimes people end meetings early and they say, I'm going to give you your time back.

53:17Brené Brown:I hear that all the time, every day. One of my biggest pet peeves. You don't own my time. You can't give it to me. This is a coordinated decision. I chose to meet with you. If I want my time back, I will claim it by ending the meeting. Or we should decide together. I've never thought about it that way. it does assume ownership of your time. It does. And there's a little, it smacks of entitlement to me. Like here, I'm going to bestow upon you this gift. I have power over you. And I am, I am unilaterally declaring that you have freedom. But without that, you'd be trapped with me. What if, what if I said, I would love to get a little bit of my own time back today and hope maybe that's helpful for you.

54:02Brené Brown:I think we can wrap here. Such a win. You're my hero. If you say that in any meeting ever, including right now.

54:12Brené Brown:Okay. One of the things that my takeaway from thinking about kind of how I do this and then reading this lit review again, which I found very helpful.

54:31Brené Brown:If you really struggle with a graceful exit, But we'll put this research in the, again, again, the show notes, but I would say the shortcut here is warmth and connection and genuine warmth and connection. I think if you have those things, it's easier to leave. If those things are not present, I would rely on the four steps and practice it a little bit. because I think it's very easy for me with people I generally care about to say, even with people that I care about, I'm thinking about some people specifically right now, one or two people in my life who probably I don't share. We probably have different levels of how long we'd like the conversation to go.

55:20Brené Brown:And mine is much shorter. Chronically. I mean, habitually, predictably longer. Do you address that with the person then as opposed to having to repeatedly find the graceful way to escape? No, I think I'm just graceful in saying I loved our catch up. I've got to run. It was so good to see you. No, because no, because I think to address it chronically would be to get ahead of what they might be bringing up. If they bring up something that's really tough or they really need me for something, I'm happy to extend that time. But I'm, you know, the other thing is I'm not. One Lent, many years ago, maybe 15, 18 years ago now, I gave up gossiping for Lent.

56:11Wow.

56:15Brené Brown:And I realized that I have a few very good friends and that I have a lot of friends where the connection is somewhat counterfeit. because what we mostly talk about is shit around other people. We just talk about other people in not a positive way, which is why I gave it up for Lent because it just, it actually, going back to sobriety, this is a clean little tidy thing. It's a cleanse. It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't work for my program, you know. So the folks that sometimes want more of my attention want to get my hot take on people that I'm not going to share a hot take on. Not that I don't want to.

56:53Brené Brown:It seems really fun and great. And I would probably enjoy it. And I'd be very good at being shitty. But I just can't afford it. Yeah, I respect that. I think, I wonder if you have an exception, which is there's, well, I think about the really critical function of what's called pro-social gossip. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I need to warn you that this person has a pattern of being a selfish taker. Watch out. That's different, right? Yeah. That is different than all we have in common is to talk shit about some other people. Yeah, that's not cool. Like, yeah, if we can't find a way to have an interesting five or ten minute connection that doesn't involve being hurtful toward anyone else, then I'm questioning either how hard we're willing to work for it or if it's just not there.

57:47So I think that's a big one.

57:49Brené Brown:And I have to just end this that I was telling Ellen and JT and Charlie this weekend that we were going to talk about the graceful exit. And I asked JT. JT told me the funniest story that he was he had saw he had seen a YouTube video about this conversation in the comments. Someone wrote, I don't know why I think this is funny. This is probably not going to be funny, but someone wrote, we always know it's time to wrap up in our family when my dad is sitting down and slaps both of his knees and then stands up. And all I thought of is like, well, in my family, whenever my dad would be like, well, I'd be like, oh, shit, get the casserole pot in your purse because it's over.

58:32Brené Brown:This is Exit Stage Brown family. So I thought that was really funny. I love that. It seems like we should all build a simple norm that everybody reads the same way. Oh, I'm going to go with this one. well it was nice to catch up all right this was fun um before we go i have to ask anything that you're watching listening to or thinking about that is interesting yeah that i did you watch jury duty no oh okay maybe i mean maybe this maybe this will fail for you because it's too uncomfortable, but it was one of the cleverest reality shows I've ever seen. It's a show about a bunch of jurors, only one of them doesn't know that all the rest are actors.

59:23What? Yeah. And I thought it was brilliant. And now they have a second season. It's Jury Duty Presents Company Retreat. And it's a similar premise. It's a fake family company with all actors, hires one real person. And Allison and I just watched the first episode and I think it's very promising.

59:46Brené Brown:Okay. I, okay, I will make you this, I'll make this commitment. I will watch, how many, how many episodes in the season of Jury Duty? I think it was eight, if I remember correctly. Okay. What about you? I'm going to watch it.

1:00:04Brené Brown:What am I watching right now? I'm mostly listening to stuff right now. So, well, I did finish The Madison, which is Taylor Sheridan's kind of new, he's the writer person behind Landman and Yellowstone. I couldn't watch Yellowstone because of the violence. I'm going to watch Landman. I love Billy Bob Thornton's Wild to me, and I like to watch him on screen. But The Madison, my sister told me to watch it, and I was like, I don't know. I thought it was the most beautifully observed television on grief. I felt such a loss and longing. I mean, the way grief is explored in it, I thought was really interesting.

1:00:58Brené Brown:And it is beautifully shot in wide open spaces, which is a Taylor Sheridan hallmark. and it involves fly fishing, which I'm obsessed with. I've never done it, but I just think it's so beautiful. Like it's very River Runs Through It. So I watched the Madison. I thought it was really great. Michelle Pfeiffer was wonderful in it. But I am going to watch the Jury Duty. I will, is it called the Jury Duty or Jury Duty? Jury Duty. I will report back. I'd rather you watch The Office. Just saying. I can't. they're not following any protocol or rules. We're doing a viewing party. It's happening. I'll watch one episode where the folks are going to push up an episode for us to watch together.

1:01:43Brené Brown:And be thoughtful, y 'all. Don't push up the cringiest because, you know, walk me into the cringe, the baby pool of cringe, and then I'll do the deep end if I can make it. And with that, Brene, it's been really delightful talking to you. And I have some TV to watch now, but I look forward to chatting again soon. This was so fun. I'll see you soon.

1:02:30over time through everyday consistency, follow through and care. Geico gets that. It's why they've spent decades showing up for their customers again and again with real savings and genuinely great customer service from people who truly care. Trust is everything and it feels good to have it. It feels good to Geico.