A Side Hustle From Her Bedroom Floor Became an 8-Figure Business.

0:00Madi Stefanis: Basically, I had an old film camera at home. I had no idea how to use it and I listed it for$50 and it sold for$250. I would literally get these crazy shipments of cameras and then sit on my bedroom floor for days listing them on the website. So I decided to start manufacturing my own cameras. So impressive. I ended up dropping out of university. I had 50 grand saved from my five years working at the supermarket. That was meant to be my house deposit. So I pulled that money together and invested it. It was probably the best decision. and the most worthwhile risk I've ever taken. If you could get a big microphone and everyone that's thinking about starting a side hustle, what would be something that you think might be helpful to hear?

0:37Madi Stefanis: There's so many opportunities for you to start a side hustle. Can I start off by just being so basic and saying, that's really important. I literally was stuck in my house. I could not get on my stairs. Can I actually do this without completely sacrificing my physical health and my quality of life? But I was 19 and we turned over$2 million in revenue in our first year. Oh my God. This episode of IOU, Some Money Education, is proudly brought to you by the Bank of New Zealand. When you're just starting out, managing your money should feel easy so that you can focus on winning at whatever you're doing.

1:12Whether you're flatting, saving to travel, or making a career move, they have all the tools to help you master your money from the get-go. Thanks so much, the Bank of New Zealand, for making IOU, Some Money Education, possible. Don't forget to check out IOU, The Practical Lessons, to put what you're learning into practice. Find the details in the podcast show notes. Maddie this is so exciting I love and the reason we wanted to get you on for many reasons all of your content everything you do is so great but I really like the idea that your business started as a side hustle so we've been talking a lot on the podcast about like there's a huge percentage of particularly Gen Z's I think it's honestly nearly 50 percent who are earning money outside of their full-time job and this has become I mean I don't know if it's a case of people aren't earning enough.

1:57And so they're trying to find ways to supplement their income if everyone just wants to own their own business. But for you, where did that inclination start from? Like, what were you doing as your full-time job? And how did you slowly start to earn money on the side? I mean, I know now it's a huge business, but at that time, where were things?

2:17Madi Stefanis: Can I take you all the way back? I can literally begin this story at five years old. Please. Oh my gosh. And you're going to laugh at me and I need to preface that I was five. So please don't take this is a character reference but as a kid in primary school in the playground supposedly according to my mother I was selling kids rocks and telling them they were magic rocks and so then my mother had to step in get me to refund everyone's$15 because I'd sold them these magic rocks which obviously I knew weren't magic but I think that was probably my first take on entrepreneurialism at a very young age.

2:48I would like to say five-year-old Maddie was a genius That is so clever and so funny. And maybe a little bit of a scammer, to be honest. Like, that is terrible. I think it's very, there's a lot of imagination. You've got stunning sales skills. I mean, if people are getting joy from their magic rocks, I don't think you should have had to refund, to be honest. Totally.

3:09Madi Stefanis: It set me up well. But yeah, to answer your question, I actually have never had a full-time job. I started the business when I was 19. So I was studying at university. I was working part-time for an Australian beauty brand. Prior to that, I was working at the supermarket for five years during high school. That was my part-time job as a cashier, like a checkout chick. So the side hustle was kind of always a side hustle. So you're probably entrepreneur at heart, really. It was sort of on the side at the start, but that obviously wasn't the intention. No, not at all. And I think that it's always this push and pull of nurture versus nature.

3:43Madi Stefanis: And I really don't know where it's come from, but I've kind of always been like this. What was your earliest memory of money? Do you remember having it, wanting it, trying to earn it, not having it? If you were to think about, okay, like one of the first visceral or emotional memories that I have about money, what comes to mind? I don't ever remember not having it. I think that perhaps my mom in particular did a really good job of protecting my sister and I from kind of anything that was going on in the family's finances. So I never had to worry. But she really instilled in me from a young age that I could have anything I wanted as long as I found a way to make it happen.

4:24Madi Stefanis: So the minute I turned 14 years old, the legal working age in Australia, I was at the supermarket working behind the cashier. So I think that that's probably my earliest memory. It was like, yes, I can have anything, but I need to find a way to make that money myself. What about your family setup? Like when you were growing up, what was it like? You said your mom sort of shielded you from any family finances. would you say then that you you haven't really absorbed any of those money stresses because you weren't privy to what was going on I think that in my early years no I'm a child of divorce so my parents split when I was 20 and I think that from then on I really started to kind of absorb some of the financial responsibility or at least have a greater understanding of what was happening in the family finances but for the most part my childhood was very hassle-free I'm kind of in two minds about the whole hiding the money stress from your kids because I think being that young and having to worry about money is not fun and it definitely pulls someone out of their innocence within childhood much earlier but we have also spoken to people on the podcast that were introduced to the idea of budgeting or family taxes and stuff early and I do think in the same way investing took a really long time to land for me it's almost like perhaps if I'd had some of those introduced to me at a younger age, it wouldn't have taken so long for me to accept that you earn money, you don't get all of it in your account.

5:51I'm split on how I think when it comes to whether or not kids should be involved or know about finances.

5:57Madi Stefanis: Completely. And I think there are certain things that kids can be exposed to. For example, I made my first investment in stocks when I was 20 years old because my mom pushed me to start investing in shares. She actually managed the majority of the family finances. So she did all the tax returns. She handled the accounting. and after I'd bought my first car, that was essentially what I was saving for. When I was working at the supermarket, she told me to start investing, and I think that credit to her, she raised two really determined, hardworking girls, because my sister and I, I often speak about my sister in a way where Ella will do anything for a dollar.

6:31Madi Stefanis: She will work four jobs once. She is such a hard worker and such a go-getter. She's traveled the world. She's seen more of the globe than anyone in my family ever has because she works for it, so I think that credit to my mom. She raised two very strong-willed women. That's amazing. I actually haven't really heard anyone talk about their family and the similarities between siblings in the same way you just did. Was it the idea that she demonstrated the way that she was with money or that she was doing it herself rather than handing it over to your dad? Do you have any idea where that came from?

7:06Because it's sort of interesting that both you and your sister have such an intense work

7:11Madi Stefanis: ithack yeah i think so look mom always worked throughout our entire childhoods it was not abnormal that she was rushing from work to pick us up from school or we'd often have to get public transport home because mom was still in the office my dad also was constantly working um so it was really demonstrated to us that everyone in the family unit was working hard my sister and i whilst we are so similar have very different values and money mindsets i often speak about how she will go traveling and stay in hostels and eat two minute noodles whereas i kind of sit on the opposite end of the spectrum.

7:42Madi Stefanis: So it's really funny that we are so similar yet completely different. That's so interesting. So you're more of a, I'd rather go to less places and experience it in a nicer way. And she's more, I will see every inch of the world and I am happy to share a room with eight random people. Absolutely. I really love nice things. I love luxury, but it's always just been a matter of me finding a way to make that happen for myself. Do you look at your own relationship with money and how you like spending it and do you critique it? Is that something that's quite conscious for you? Have you looked at the way that you think about spend, save, what you're investing towards and dissected that?

8:19I don't know. It sort of sounds like you're quite close to your own financial behavior.

8:24Madi Stefanis: Definitely. I think I'm very close to it. I run a weekly personal P &L, so I treat myself like a business. I am aware of every single dollar that is coming into my bank account and going out of it. So I'm not frugal in the slightest. I really value investing and setting myself up for the long term, especially as a founder, because I think financial security, running your own business is something that is hard to achieve, particularly in the short term. But I also really like to enjoy my life and I love nice things. So I think I found a nice balance of being able to do both. I'm so impressed. Please talk me through the personal P &L and how do I make one?

8:57Madi Stefanis: Honestly. And look, I do not sit in spreadsheets. I actually failed micro and macroeconomics in university and then dropped out. I just gave off. So I don't know how to use an Excel spreadsheet, I will get on calls with my CFO and literally everyone laughs at me because I'm so bad at doing the math, but I will quite literally sit down, pen and paper, and figure out all my expenses that are coming in, everything that's going out. Any, for example, payments I'm expected to receive in the next 30 days, I check my bank account every single day. My stock portfolio, I don't look at. I invest every single week, but for the most part, I'm really not checking it on the daily because I'm investing for the long term.

9:33Madi Stefanis: So that's kind of how I try to handle my finances, at least right now. I'm so impressed. I am so impressed. Oh my God. Right. I've got many questions. So how do you bucket your money? Do you have a particular amount that you spend on clothes, on makeup, on rent? How are you setting up your P &L? There's actually a really interesting talking point. So I will receive a weekly salary from the business. And for the past five years, since I started the company, I've always tried to keep that salary as low as possible because I'm building a company for the long term. So I basically take what I need to survive.

10:10Madi Stefanis: So my money hits my bank account. I put into my savings, my allocated amount of rent each week, and then whatever's left over covers my basic living expenses. And I'm not frugal with my expenses. For example, I think I very openly shed. I get my hair done twice a week. Like there are things in my life. Oh my God. What do you mean? A blow wave? Yeah, a blow wave, which is such a luxury. I think the thing about me is that I'm very open to cutting back on those expenses if my situation changes. So I'm no stranger to having to cut out getting my nails done or getting a lash lift or all of those kind of discretionary spending on nice to have things.

10:46Madi Stefanis: But I will say that clothes and investing comes from other revenue streams. For example, I really prioritize brand partnerships on social media. I think that it's important to speak on gifting, especially in the creator space and how that contributes so heavily to, I guess subsidizing your income if I'm being sent clothes from brands and I'm not spending money on them oh my god if any brand is listening send me new clothes because it's true it's the most expensive thing and also if you see people posting all of these new clothes or new outfits of course you kind of just assume that they've bought it but you're right that is one of the perks and being honest about that's I think really important yeah I think it's important to disclose even when it comes to beauty services.

11:32Madi Stefanis: For example, I get a free massage once a month with a spa that I partner with. So I think that it's important for people to understand that not all of these expenses are coming out of my pocket. Yes, I'm exchanging time and value, but I'm not actually giving up monetary dollars. And then in terms of how and what you spend your money on outside of aesthetics and beauty, do you value paying for food out, alcohol, trips? Because also you're saying you're taking kind of the minimum salary, I imagine you probably need a decent amount in New York to be able to do those things. Absolutely. Alcohol, I don't drink, lucky me, so that's not an expense.

12:08Madi Stefanis: It's not a line item on my P &L. My weekly expenses are basically food, lunch and dinner. I don't cook. The only meal that I cook for myself is breakfast, and that is because I've figured out in New York that cooking for one person in a single unit household is actually more expensive than just ordering in. Yeah, I'm transparently not the greatest cook, but I think I also really prioritize my time. So I kind of look at money as would I rather spend this money and save myself time? Like if I'm ordering in whilst I'm waiting for my food to arrive, could I be working and potentially creating more income for myself versus being in the kitchen for two hours?

12:44Madi Stefanis: I think I just identified my skills and cooking is not one of them, but there was definitely a time where I was cooking at home. These are all things that I've slowly built up in my life and my routine. They haven't all come at once. So what does a normal week for you look like now? How many hours are you working? What is the demand from the business at this time? And I think later in this conversation, I would love to go into more detail around the business. And I know there's been a huge amount of challenges that you've had to overcome to get to where you are. But can you paint a picture for what life and business and yeah, what your life looks like now?

13:18Madi Stefanis: Of course, it's probably a lot less glamorous than people would assume. I work pretty much every day since moving to the US because I'm dealing with multiple different markets. So we're working across Australia, the US, UK, and Europe. I will tend to take Saturdays off. That's often a nice day for me because nobody is emailing me. But for the rest of the week, I'm working often 8am till 9pm at night. It's so funny, isn't it? How glamorized owning your own business and working for yourself has been made externally. I think a lot of people don't understand quite how intense it is. And I also think in a way, and don't get me wrong, I'm a big advocate for people earning their own money, owning their own business.

13:58We talk about it a lot. And I think that it's a really brilliant way to future-proof your earning and your value and your building equity in your own thing. But I also think there's value in knowing what kind of person you are and what kind of environments you thrive in. And working for yourself is no joke. I think maybe what we've done on this podcast too much is really hammer home this idea of go work for yourself. It is a lot of work. And there's also great perks for working for somebody. You just have to know what kind of lifestyle that you want. But generally, you start your own thing. And people are like, you never work a day in your life.

14:36And I actually think that's kind of not true. You know, like, work is work. Even if you love what you do, is intense and it requires a lot. I don't know if you're feeling drained from working six days a week, but I think, you know, making sure you have at least 10 days off is like the bare minimum you should be doing. Absolutely.

14:54Madi Stefanis: I think there's a lot of sacrifice with working for yourself. Look, my physical health has really suffered this year specifically just because of the demand and the amount of hours I'm working. Sometimes I do really come to envy my friends in nine to fives just because job security, knowing exactly how much money is hitting your bank account every week, knowing that on weekends you can log off and actually enjoy your life is something that I don't always get to experience or enjoy. So I think there's pros and cons to both for sure. It's really interesting you say that about the physical health.

15:23I've really noticed that as well. It's quite interesting when you speak to people who have founded more than one business and they reflect back on the times in their first businesses where they massively blew out and how they really reposition everything in their head as like, I am the biggest asset to this business. If I'm tired, underfed, not eating the right stuff, not moving my body, not feeling energized, it's actually the worst thing I could possibly do for the business. But when you're in this constant grind of, oh my God, is money going to be coming in? Or I need to do more, more, more.

15:56It sounds counterintuitive. But when you say you've experienced health issues, is it significant or is it a small tip? And you're like, oh, need to look after that.

16:04Madi Stefanis: I have suffered from chronic fatigue for the past five years and probably had my biggest burnout this April. I was in bed for five weeks. So I didn't go into the office for five weeks. I did minimal work. And it was one of those situations where I literally was stuck in my house. I could not move and I could not do any work. So I think in situations like that, you realize that you are really the biggest asset to a business. And if you don't have your health, you cannot perform at all. That's so crazy. I know someone I've known, one of my really old school friends had chronic fatigue for years and years and years.

16:37Because if you don't nip it in the bud and really look after it, it can stay there. It's almost like glandular fever. It just like lingers in the background. I don't actually know. So if that's not true, definitely correct me.

16:47Madi Stefanis: No, you're absolutely spot on. Mine stemmed from glandular fever. I had tonsillitis every year from the age of 10 to 20 years old. Eventually they took my tonsils out, but then they found glandular in my bloods. So it's all stemmed from that. But for anyone that hasn't experienced burnout or maybe needs to clarify really what the symptoms are and how that feels, because it's such an overused word. And I think it's so hard, isn't it? Because on the one hand, when people start normalizing things like mental health or, to be honest, any kind of illness, it's helpful, I think, because it brings light to something that other people might not know about.

17:24But then when it gets to the point where people just throw it around like, oh, I'm a bit OCD. And it's like you've just wiped the counter. It's like, no, that's not OCD, actually. Yeah, it would be really interesting for my own personal research. What is the difference between being really tired and stressed and actually getting to burnout and chronic fatigue?

17:41Madi Stefanis: I can give you a really practical example, and it is so simple. I was at the point where previously I was living in a five-floor walk-up building. I could not get up my stairs. I would have to decide how many times a day I was going to leave the house. For example, if I wanted to go 10 minutes down the road to the coffee shop, that was my outing for the day. because getting back to my apartment was so physically fatiguing on my body. So I think that's probably the most practical example I can give you. Gosh, I'm so sorry that you experienced that. That must have been really scary. And also, especially when you've poured so much into this business, to be just completely unable to do anything, that must have been really hard.

18:17Madi Stefanis: Not fun, but we are slowly rebuilding and I am a big believer in everything gets better. You know, time goes on and I'm figuring it out. Am I right in thinking that the business was, even though you weren't in a full-time job, it was kind of one of the ways that you were making money? And then it started to grow, and then it became your full-time thing. Is that right? That's right. I can give a little bit of context. Basically, I had an old film camera at home. I had no idea how to use it, and I listed it for sale on Facebook Marketplace. I listed it for $50, and it sold for$250. People had started bidding in the comments.

18:53Madi Stefanis: And so to my 19-year-old brain. That was my light bulb, my little indicator that for some reason we were going into the pandemic and people wanted film cameras. So I started sourcing cameras all around the world and eventually it hit a ceiling where I was selling a vintage product that was limited supply. So I decided to start manufacturing my own cameras. And so from there, I started working in the business full time. I ended up dropping out of university, which in hindsight was the wrong decision because I only had six months to go and it would have been incredibly helpful to have a university degree for my US visa.

19:28Madi Stefanis: But that's essentially how I started working full time in the business and turning it into a company. So when you were selling vintage cameras and you realized there was a limited supply, I just think it's so, it's hilarious that you failed economics because that is the most clever thing ever, just to think something that is rare. And it's the same thing when it comes to investing, right? You've got to buy something ideally low and hopefully sell it high and something that's in a limited supply. So you really understood that from such a young age and saw the opportunity, which is amazing. How much money were you making when you were doing it in that way, sourcing and then reselling?

20:03And what was the decision to start manufacturing? Because that's a huge leap.

20:08Madi Stefanis: Yeah, it was. You're actually going to laugh. I used to have our monthly revenue on an A4 piece of paper on my bedroom wall. I would literally have one piece of paper per month and just write the total figure. This is so clever. I want to start doing that. It was so funny. I think we maxed out at probably about 70 ,000 a month Australian, but, and it's hilarious because I always get memories of it. I was sitting there taking photos of every single individual camera because no vintage, no two vintage cameras are the same. You have to photograph them, list them. They all have like individual little defects or scuffs or scratches.

20:43Madi Stefanis: So I would literally get these crazy shipments of cameras and then sit on my bedroom floor for days, listing them on the website. So it was physically a very demanding business model because I was actually doing everything myself. But it was a great side hustle. And I think at 70 grand a month, it kind of surpassed what you would consider to be a side hustle. Like that's a salary in Australia. For a whole year, not just a month. I mean, that's amazing. And were you the only person in the business at that time? Yeah, it was just me. I was doing absolutely everything. Looking back on it, especially considering we were in lockdown, it was a crazy time.

21:17Quite good, though. Very good time doing package stuff, too, because everyone was so bored and desperate for anything that made them feel excited. So everyone was ordering more online and also your home so you could work all the time and just get stuff sent.

21:31Madi Stefanis: Absolutely. I think the world's attention was online during that time period. But it was also probably the most isolating time in business I've ever experienced. I don't know anyone, or at least at the time I didn't, who owned a business or had run a company. So I was really kind of just trying to figure things out myself. But that's so brave. And I think a really amazing lesson for anyone that's thinking about starting, whether it's a side hustle or a business, because you do feel lonely a lot of the time. I think that's a really, even if you have a business partner, I mean, I feel that too. And also nobody knows what they're doing.

22:07So the fact that you can reflect now and say that was definitely more lonely than normal and that was quite hard, the naivety of it to just go and do it is so brave and impressive. Was there a moment when, I mean, I'm imagining it was probably the 70K a month because that's insane. But was there a big pinnacle that was a financial milestone? maybe it was the amount of customers that really made you think okay this is this is a full this needs my full-time attention I really need to rethink the strategy of this and look more long

22:42Madi Stefanis: term I think it was when I speak about my chronic fatigue probably the two worst times in my life were that period right there that's probably when my health was at its worst alongside April this year so I think that it was so physically demanding that I kind of wanted to restructure the business in a way where I wasn't sitting there photographing these cameras, listing them myself. But also it was heavily based on customer feedback. We had people in our DMs messaging us saying, do you have anything cheaper? This camera is too expensive or this is too hard to use. So I wanted to create a product that was at a more affordable price point and easy to use.

23:19Madi Stefanis: And that's kind of how the Reloader, which is our hero product now, came about. I can't wait to buy it, by the way. I'm going to Greece in September. I've been wanting to get a new film camera for ages. I actually have some old school ones from my granddad that are way too hard to use. They're like the super eight really cool film like video ones. And like there's some amazing cameras, but they're heavy, they're annoying, and I just don't use them. And I've been really in the market for something. So I feel like that is actually so perfect. What was the time period between, all right, I'm going to try and create something that fills the niche that people are obviously asking for and how much did you have to invest in a product development build to actually get it to the point where you were happy with it and could start selling it in a different way?

24:01Madi Stefanis: It took around 12 months, the entire product development process. Luckily, I continued selling vintage cameras during that timeframe. So that assisted with cashflow and having money coming into the business. I basically invested whatever active capital was in the business's bank account at the time, but I also pulled, I had 50 grand saved for my five years working at the supermarket that was meant to be my house deposit. So I pulled that money together and invested it to launch this camera to market. I genuinely thought I was going to put down a deposit and buy a house. And suddenly I had zero dollars to my name, but it was probably the best decision and the most worthwhile risk I've ever taken.

24:37It's so risky, but so cool. Like it's not that risky. It's amazing that you did that. I think there's so many learnings from what you've just said, and maybe there'll be some different ones that we can talk about later in this conversation, but just hearing you speak, I think that you had a financial plan. You had something that was going to carry you from, okay, this is going to take maybe 12 months to produce. I need a way to make money throughout that time so that when I get to that point, then I can start selling this product. I think it's just really, really clever because a lot of people get so fed up in their full-time job.

25:12They want to be earning more money. They want diversity of what they're doing for whatever reason. And I think you have to be so clever financially to make a leap into something, to invest in a product, to invest in a new venture, whatever that is. So it sounds like you did that in a really measured but also risky way. What were you thinking about in terms of should I use this money? How did you make the decision that it was worth the risk?

25:37Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I think at 19 years old, I was definitely a little bit scared, but I remember my mom saying to me, it was the day where I actually had to transfer my funds over into our manufacturer's bank account and she just looked at me and said you're 19 who cares like she was like just take the risk what's the worst that could happen like realistically I was living at home I had a roof over my head and she was like you will find a way to make it work oh your mom's iconic she's really making me realize how important it is to not be risk adverse as a parent you can massively clip people's wings if she had said it's not the most sensible thing to do actually Maddie maybe you should not you might not have done it well it's interesting because I have other people in my extended family who turned around and said to me what if you do not sell a single camera and the reason my mom is perhaps so supportive and excited for me to take risks is because maybe she wasn't afforded that type of mindset in her childhood yes but also you can either reflect exactly what you've been taught or do the total antithesis and a lot of parents, if they've experienced quite a low risk, risk adverse, this is the way that you should do things, it's very easy to then teach what you know and show your kids what you know.

26:53So the fact that she did that differently is really impressive.

26:57Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I think also this is such a random reflection, but it's one that's always stuck with me. My ex-boyfriend many years ago, his dad took out a loan for$50 ,000 when he was 23 and invested it all in the share market. And I feel like he also really encouraged me to begin my investing journey and that really shaped my money mindset too. So I think that little stories like that really do impact your money story and how you kind of approach personal wealth. I totally agree. I know that we've been really talking about all of these amazing successful things, you know, investing$50 ,000, creating a product.

27:33And firstly, actually, before we move on, how many of those units of that original camera that you had manufactured have you now sold? We have sold over 100 ,000 cameras, I believe. Oh, my God. That's so incredible. How many countries?

27:51Madi Stefanis: Like, give me some top line success stats. So many countries. I think there are very few countries that we haven't shipped to. but I was 19 and we turned over$2 million in revenue in our first year which I don't think I thought much of at the time I was so entrenched in the business that I kind of just kept working but in hindsight looking back now I was so young and that was a lot of money and obviously it's not cash that's sitting in my bank account because that's not how a company works but yeah I think that was a lot to achieve at 19 years old. I am absolutely shocked so before 19 was when you were doing the selling vintage cameras, you had a few incredible months, got up to $70 ,000, and then at$19 ,000, you invested in the new model, and you made$2 million in your first year.

28:33What's the total revenue? Is that something you'd feel comfortable sharing? I actually don't know, and that's a really good question. I think we would have surpassed eight figures. I'm so impressed. That is honestly amazing, Maddie. Like, how old are you now? I'm just turned 26.

28:48Madi Stefanis: Oh, my God. That's so impressive. We are actually about to launch to market next month a new product. It's a digital camcorder, a video camera. And it's really funny because this entire launch process feels very reminiscent of when we launched our first film camera to market. It is a completely new category for us, but we've just seen so much excitement from our community and it's a big risk. We're really taking a huge financial swing, especially because it's an electronic good. So I'm kind of betting a lot on this launch but it feels like a really exciting time and no it hasn't been the best year health wise but working towards this goal which coincidentally is also happening in September and we launched our first film camera in September several years ago feels really exciting and special I'm so impressed I'm so impressed it's outrageous um I'd love to speak about some of the less exciting less shiny times because anyone that has ever been either in a small business started a side hustle it is that the ups and downs of a small team of a small business is like having some kind of crazy roller coaster experience that is really difficult to put into words it's the highs are so high and the lows are terrifyingly low and I think for anyone that has done their own thing whether it's in a freelance capacity or exactly what you've done you know built a full-on global business with a product that you're selling there is yeah there's a lot of excitement there's a lot of stress what are some of the biggest setbacks or scares that you had in the early days or even in the last couple of years that upon reflection you're actually really impressed with yourself that you managed to get through it oh there's so many i don't come from a finance background i sit on the marketing and creative side of things, we have almost run out of cash so many times.

30:40Madi Stefanis: I'm talking$500 in the bank account, worried that we wouldn't be able to pay our bills. And I think that it's always been within reason, like we've had incoming payments from suppliers and I've always known we would be okay, but they are really scary moments. So I think that that's probably one of the hardest ones. Have you changed the way that you approach your finances to give you more comfort that you can lean into the creative and the things that you're really good at while allowing that because even what you shared at the beginning where you were saying you know I'm really you know money spreadsheets numbers not really my thing a lot of business and working for yourself is so much more about intuition about how and what your money should be spent on that's why you have an accountant that you mentioned you had a CFO did you put some of those mechanisms in place when you had some of those scary moments yes as soon as I onboarded I work with essentially kind of a fractional CFO, so he comes on board as needed, but we monitor cash flow really tightly now.

31:36Madi Stefanis: Cash flow is king. We definitely still take measured risks. I think that to grow any business, you kind of have to be willing to take those swings. But yeah, we definitely manage the finances a lot more closely now. Now, I think we also have the benefit of overdrafts, which a lot of businesses have. So for anyone who doesn't know, an overdraft is essentially like a cash reserve from the bank for X amount of money. It could be a few hundred thousand dollars. It kind of depends on your revenue and your income and your business size. But it is nice to know that for me personally, I do not like living in the overdraft and there are very few circumstances where we've actually dipped into it.

32:13Madi Stefanis: But I think that it's a nice backup plan to kind of know that it's there if needed. Going into business at 19 was quite difficult because everyone wants to take you for a ride at that age. So I think that there were so many situations along the way where exiting contracts became really difficult because people kind of tried to hold power over me solely due to my age. So there were several circumstances where I had to get lawyers involved to kind of help me exit contracts that I was well within my legal rights to do. But because I was so young and people I was dealing with were much older than me, they really tried to just take advantage of that.

32:50What kind of contracts do you have in that type of business? Is it almost like suppliers or department stores or people where you're providing a certain amount of product?

32:58Madi Stefanis: Yeah, a bit of both. Suppliers, retailers, I think you have to be really careful and kind of know what to look for. I am a big advocate for getting lawyers involved, particularly to review contracts. When you sign on retail agreements, you have to be really careful that often retailers will slot in clauses where if you don't sell through the product, they are within their rights to return it back to you. Yes, this is so gnarly. I've got a few friends in fashion businesses and I didn't realize that. It's so intense. It sucks because it's like putting all the onus on the person creating the product and not really any on the shop or the business that should be really making effort to move product.

33:35Madi Stefanis: It is super intense. And the issue is that if you're a small business and a retailer is requesting 5 ,000 units, you're investing decent capital in getting those products to them and then if they don't sell through you are almost potentially facing going bankrupt having to reimburse them for that product so I think that I've been really good over the years at putting a cap on the dollar value or the amount of stock they can return to us but I think that having lawyers on your side in those circumstances is really important I know it's expensive but they are worth every dollar I would have thought what you've done in terms of product is really clever though comparatively to other more trend-based fashion items you know like you've created something that's so evergreen is such a classic more of immediate podcast term but it's a product that doesn't really go out of fashion everyone wants to take cool photos everyone is invested in buying and keeping memories so I think there's something in that I would have thought to future-proof the product in the business it's a product that really lends itself well to kind of any stage of life.

34:40Madi Stefanis: I think that's a nice thing. It's a product that grows with you, whether you are in college or getting married or having a baby. So it's nice to kind of have a product that ages as you do. Were there any moments where you thought genuinely that it might not work? Because from what I hear in terms of the investment, I know that there was the moment where you invested in the camera and creating that product. And I imagine that was one of them. And also those times where you were really close from a financial perspective, like skating quite close to the, we have no money to pay for anything line.

35:14But it sounds to me, and I don't know if I'm just assuming this, but it sounds as though all of those moments, you probably still had the confidence or belief that actually you knew you would be okay. Were there any other times where you were actually really, really like, oh God, I don't actually think I can get through this.

35:33Madi Stefanis: From a business or a financial perspective, no. But I think from a personal health perspective, yes. Being the spearhead of a company, it really dawned on me, can I actually do this without completely sacrificing my physical health and my quality of life? I think that's always been a really hard thing for me to understand, especially this year. Yeah, it's been really interesting. And I think that I often think about whether this path forward and this career is something that I really want and is beneficial to my health and my body. I can so resonate with that so, so much. And I've had some really dire moments too.

36:11I was actually looking at some photos of myself from about a year and a half ago and my skin looks like it's not on my face. I'm like so swollen and so sad and stressed and like it was just it's crazy what determination to succeed or prove people wrong can do to override what you know you need to be doing from a health perspective and I also don't know if this is something you've thought about but probably being in your early 20s it's a little bit easier in the sense that when you get into sort of your 30s early 30s mid 30s people are expecting you to or asking are you prioritizing love life do you want to have a family you know you can't be that selfish that's the sort of perception externally I imagine probably as you start creeping towards late 20s you might start thinking right now I can be really can be try and be energetic and try and focus all my time and energy and growing this asset and the value in the business but what are the things I'm not willing to sacrifice personally and it's something that isn't spoken about enough because it's almost back to the beginning where I was like people glorify owning your own business you do sacrifice a lot you do and I honestly don't even

37:23Madi Stefanis: know if I want to have kids I mean not anytime soon but I'm not sure if that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make so yeah I think there's a lot of big kind of like borderline existential questions that come with owning your own business particularly as you reach your late 20s to mid 30s it's so weird isn't it because like I just love I feel like I'm saying your generation is if you're 20 30 years younger than me but I do really love that it's so not a given that we we as a collective are all really thinking about is that actually something that we want and are willing to sacrifice you know career financial business potential for because as much as you can do all the things you can't do all the things at one time and if your business is taking off at a certain period and you have to take five years to be very sleep deprived, looking after little mini people that desperately need love and attention.

38:17It's really hard to imagine how you could have your business baby and actual babies. I think there's a lot of female founders particularly that grapple with that because generally for a lot of guys, it's not their bodies that have to go through it. Okay. I would love to talk about the fact that you have only two full timers, but a lot of contractors. Yeah. Did you structure the business intentionally in that way? Can you run us through the thought process?

38:42Madi Stefanis: Yeah, I did. I really like working remotely. I love being able to kind of go anywhere and everywhere and just sit on my laptop and do my work. So everyone is pretty much completely remote. We work with contractors and I really like that kind of business model. I feel like everyone is a specialist in their field or that particular role. And so I can kind of call on them for exactly what I need. And it's easy. It's seamless. So I do really love working that way. Would you say there's any particular roles that you think are really important to have as either full-time hires or in person? Or is everything remote and contract actually fine?

39:18Madi Stefanis: I think we make it work. I think one of the areas we struggle with, particularly being such a young social-led brand, is not having a marketing team in-house. I think brands really benefit from filming user-generated content in the office. And so that is somewhere that we kind of lose out. We did have an office on the Gold Coast for two years. And I loved that. Liliana, who was working for me at the time, we performed really well on TikTok because we were both together in the one place and we could kind of cultivate that human connection and emotion in an office setting. So I think we really benefited from that.

39:52Madi Stefanis: But at this point in time, I think the contractor model works quite well. It definitely has its pros and cons though. Okay, let's wrap up with some final advice for anyone who is 19, 20, perhaps, actually, do you know what? This could be for anyone that's feeling a little bit scared about the idea of starting a side hustle or their own thing. Would you wish someone had sat down and said, don't forget these three things. It doesn't have to be three. Can I start off by just being so basic and saying, have an emergency fund. And And look, there's kind of two sides to this coin because I will say it is entirely dependent on your circumstances.

40:27Madi Stefanis: For example, when I started, I was living at home. I had a roof over my head and my parents were feeding me. And so outside of that, I really didn't need anything. All of those other things you can forego, whether it's eating out with your friends or buying clothes. If you're young and you're living at home, that's just a sacrifice you should make. But if you are well into your 20s or 30s and you're looking to start a company, have an emergency fund with three to six months of life expenses because if you're investing heavily in starting a business or taking a big swing or risk, you need to have a backup because you don't want to be in a situation where you can't pay your rent or you don't have anywhere to live.

41:02Madi Stefanis: And as much as I kind of romanticize the hustle mindset and the struggles and the doing whatever it takes, I think that you need a little bit of stability in your life as much as possible. That's probably my biggest piece of advice, even just put aside money for tax. I think that that's just a really practical piece of advice. What I can tell you is, and I think maybe it has a lot of my personality and me as a human, but I'm never tied to the item I'm selling. For example, I'm not a photographer by trade. I actually really do enjoy film photography now and it's kind of grown alongside the business, but at the beginning, I didn't know anything about cameras.

41:42Madi Stefanis: And I think that I've never shied away from trying to start a side hustle or sell a product that is not something I love. For example, say I wanted to start a side hustle selling vintage clothes. I don't wear vintage. I don't buy vintage, but I would happily step into business doing that. So I think that you don't always have to love the product that you're selling. A side hustle can be a side hustle, and it's okay for it to be about money. I think that's so important because a lot of people are sold this thing where it's like work has to be, you have to love it. You've got to believe in it. And like all those things are true, but not in such a literal way.

42:19It's work. And I don't think that there's any shame in saying what you're doing for work is to try and find and make financial freedom for yourself. It doesn't always have to be you're saving the world at the same time. Yes, amazing if you're not producing or adding to waste or amazing if you've come up with something that is a hybrid of all the things that you love. But it also doesn't have to be that way. And perhaps a lot of people feel crippled by the expectation that all the stars have to be absolutely perfectly aligned. Could just be an opportunity that you think you could make some money in and you can test it out.

42:54Absolutely.

42:54Madi Stefanis: And I think it's such a cool stepping stone because say you do something that you're not particularly passionate about right now and it's successful. Imagine what you could do once you have the funds to actually invest in something you really love and care about. Such great advice. Maddie, for anyone that's listening, so we end these episodes with extra credit. it. So it could be anything. We're basically saying if you are listening and you are too scared to sell a side hustle or a business or earn money on the side of whatever your job is right now, what would be some really practical tasks? It could just be one or something that could start to get someone feeling motivated or excited about figuring out how they could make more money in a side hustle.

43:38It doesn't have to be a full-on business and it could be, again, boring or random, but what could some practical activities be or homework for someone listening?

43:49Madi Stefanis: I think there are so many ways to go about side hustles. I would actually genuinely sit down and just spend a few hours on TikTok looking at what other people are doing. I'm a big believer that no market is too saturated. So say you come across someone who has a side hustle selling, I don't know, antiques and you think, oh, that looks really successful, but they're already doing it. So I'm not going to do it myself. I think that that's just proof of concept. They're doing it. It's successful. Why wouldn't you also do it? So I think that that's probably my biggest piece of advice, even just get outside.

44:23Madi Stefanis: I know it sounds so basic, but if you live in a city, go and look at what's selling in stores, see what people are doing on the weekends, how they're choosing to spend their time. I think that real lived experience and proof is the most valuable thing you can get. I think that's amazing because it's very similar with investing. And Vic talks about a lot where there might be a business she thinks is good to invest in, but she won't just take what she finds on a computer screen as the research that she makes a decision on. She'll go into a store. She'll speak to people. She'll try the product. I think zooming out more holistically to find an opportunity is really clever advice.

44:58And I think, you know, don't put pressure on needing to find an answer straight away. I am just going to throw something else out there. And I think that starting your own thing, and if your story is anything to go by, you are investing for at least five years in what you're doing, if not more. So there does need to be real conviction in the thing that you're trying. And that doesn't mean to say you should feel paralyzed by finding the exact right, whatever it is. But I do think that, yeah, you want to keep in the back of your mind, And you might be spending a lot of time selling something and having longevity and what that idea in business is, I think, is quite important, which is why cameras and what you're doing is such a good example of that in the sense it's not super fashionable or trendy.

45:47I mean, it is very cool, but in a different way.

45:49Madi Stefanis: Yeah. And I think it's also important to consider that a lot of side hustles aren't glamorous. I think I can speak to this from a New York perspective. Like this is a city of convenience where people want things and they want them done right now. The amount of people I've met in this city who house sit, babysit, walk dogs. There are just so many opportunities, particularly in cities where there are people here with high net wealth who value convenience. There's so many opportunities for you to start a side hustle. Maddy, thank you so much for sharing everything about your personal finances, your business experience.

46:24it's so I'm honestly so impressed at how much you've done in such a short space of time and for anyone that wants to follow you or find the products that you're selling

46:36Madi Stefanis: where is the best place thank you Sophie you can find us 35mmco on Instagram our website is 35mmco.com and you can find me my Instagram is maddystavanis it was honestly so great to meet you thank you so much thank you this was so much fun thank you so much the Bank of New Zealand for sponsoring this episode of IOU Some Money Education. There is an art to starting something new and just like any art form you need the right tools to make it work. Whether you're flatting or you're saving to travel, maybe you want to make a career move, the Bank of New Zealand has the tools to help you master your money from the get-go.

47:08And don't forget to check out IOU The Practical Lessons to put everything that you've been learning into practice. You can find the details in the podcast show notes. Okay quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing but we are not financial advisors. Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours.

47:39And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.