Don’t invest all your eggs in one basket

0:00Sophie Hallwright: Do you seek adventure and want to serve your country? The Central Intelligence Agency's Directorate of Operations is hiring. We are looking for individuals with a can-do attitude and a collaborative mindset. If you are looking for a challenge, apply online at cia.gov slash careers. Hi, I'm Sophie. I'm one of the founders of The Curve, and I went from being in 50k of debt, not understanding investing, knowing how to budget, save. I was a total financial disaster. Now I have two investment properties over 100k in the stock market and I'm in no debt. But I did not always used to be this good with money and investing.

0:36Sophie Hallwright: And it all started from the very beginning of this podcast. We're currently on a podcast break. So we're having two weeks off new episodes and we wanted to do some throwbacks to the vintage OG episodes that were released originally five years ago when I knew nothing about investing. If you don't need to go back to these throwback episodes, enjoy two weeks without us in your ears. But if you know anyone who's felt left out of the conversation when it comes to money, investing, or just really don't know where to start, please send them this podcast. We will be back for regular programming at the start of October.

1:12Sophie Hallwright: This is the fifth ever episode that we ever released. It was back in 2020 and this episode, I'm like, I don't want to give too much away, but we speak about one of Vic's favorite things ever and that is how to spread your risk. So how to invest in a way where you are trying to maximize the amount of money that you can make while minimizing the stress or the worry or the potential of losing money. If you're new to investing, you may not know this, but I'm going to tell you a hard truth. And that is, investing means you could lose some money. And you might be listening to that and thinking, well, no, actually, Sophie, that's not for me.

2:00Sophie Hallwright: I don't want to lose any money. The whole point of investing and diversifying, which is what this episode is about, is to try and explain that while there may be some investments that you lose money on, because not everything is going to go up and generate a return and make you more money or grow what you already have. There will definitely be things that you invest in that don't do well. And that's just part of investing. You are never going to pick or invest in 100 % things that go up. But what you can do is diversify so that you are investing in lots of different types of companies from lots of different parts of the world, businesses of all different shapes and sizes and all different types of industries so that if things do go down, you have other investments that are doing well.

2:50Sophie Hallwright: So if you think about your investments, you will get to a point where you have a what we call portfolio. And a portfolio is basically all the different things you invest in. So it might be your pension or your KiwiSaver, your super, wherever you are in the world. This is your retirement money. You may have money that you invest in stocks. It might be with fund managers like the Curve Fund. It may be that you have property. You may have money in bonds or term deposits. You may have cash for your emergency fund that's in hopefully a high interest savings account. The idea is that the whole picture of all of your money and all of your investments is called a portfolio.

3:25Sophie Hallwright: If you have everything in one asset class or in one type of business, it means that should something go wrong with that business or that industry, your entire portfolio, if it's invested in that same sort of area, could go down all at the same time. The idea of diversifying is that while things will go up and down and sideways, overall, if you are diversified and you're invested in lots of different things, that won't all go down or up at the same time. And that's the whole point of diversifying. If you look at your whole portfolio and it's gone down heaps, stressful. So the idea is, while we all have to accept that investments go up and down and that not everything is going to go up, you want to do your best to diversify across lots of different things, asset classes, countries, etc.

4:14Sophie Hallwright: to mitigate the risk. So that is what this entire episode is about. It's a really, really important one to understand. We also just actually explain how the stock market is like a literal marketplace, just like if you went to the farmer's market, the stock market is all based on supply and demand. So if you went to the, I don't know, a local grocery store and everyone was trying to buy white rice and they'd run out, they're probably going to start pricing that white rice more expensive because there's more people that want to buy rice than there are bags of rice to sell. So that is the just basic premise of economics, but also of investing and the stock market.

4:54Sophie Hallwright: So As well as this concept that I remember that talking about, and it took a while to land, but it's don't fall in love with a stock or an investment. And what she's basically trying to say is that you can do all this research or feel really good when you finally invest in something. You're like, yes, I've did that thing that I've been thinking or wanting to do for ages and haven't done. If you then make an investment, we often can be attached to that investment because we did research or we made a decision. It's almost like unconscious bias. The problem is if it then becomes risky or it's not the same business you invested in or there's objective information that says you probably should divest or pull your money out of an investment.

5:34Sophie Hallwright: You can be attached to it like you can fall in love with an investment. Just like you can fall in love with anything you've put time and energy into. A relationship, a friend, a job, anything. So we talk about how to know when to say goodbye to an investment because while you can think about when to buy investments, when to sell and know when to detach from something is also really important. So we touch on that in this episode. I've done it again. I've talked for a really long time. I'm very sorry. One final thing I will say before we get into this episode is, you know, like with fashion, how you can think, oh, there's these really cool Solomon shoes that everyone's got that I'm buying.

6:13Sophie Hallwright: It's hard, right? Because if you're buying the thing that absolutely everyone already has, there's not much left of it to buy. And when there's not much left of something to buy, it means the share price or the investment can't increase that much in value because there's not more demand. If that doesn't make sense, don't worry. It will once you've listened to the episode. But enough from me. Let's get into the episode. And thank you so much. If you have been sending this to friends or family or people that are new to investing, hopefully we have more people starting to get excited and invest.

6:47Sophie Hallwright: I must say Vic, I'm starting to feel like apart from the fact that when we listened to these episodes back, we both sound kind of like men and maybe need to smile a little bit more. Yes. But I feel like I'm definitely starting to understand and feel like we're moving. I know this sounds kind of cringy, but it does. It feels like each time we talk about the stuff, it's building on it. That's so good because that's obviously what we want all our listeners to get out of the podcast. I know. It's one of those things, I think, investing. You kind of do want that quick fix. I know that last time you said something like, if you want a quick fix, go to the casino.

7:22Sophie Hallwright: But it feels really good to at least be moving through and building on the knowledge as we go. It's really cool. Totally. Thanks for sharing. I actually am feeling also quite inspired by the whole, I know today we're talking about diversification, and you've talked a lot about the time horizon. I feel quite grateful to be learning about this now as I'm 30 rather than 75. Totally.

7:43Victoria Harris: You know, if only we had done this when we were kind of 18. Imagine if we learned this at school.

7:48Sophie Hallwright: Imagine if it was, it's such a shame.

7:50Victoria Harris: We learned how to play the recorder and how to do all those really important trigonometry. I mean, I've used that every day.

7:56Sophie Hallwright: Oh, same. Algebra, very important. Yeah. Hopefully there's younger people that are wanting to learn and kind of starting to realize how important it is to learn as early as you can. Totally.

8:06Victoria Harris: Yeah.

8:06Sophie Hallwright: So today diversification is our not having all our X in one basket analogy, right? Yes, exactly. That is diversification. So what does, in terms of the, you know, we've gone over the asset classes and how, and I'm guessing diversification, except in much more depth, is essentially investing in lots of different asset classes. Exactly.

8:28Victoria Harris: Yeah.

8:28Sophie Hallwright: No, that is spot on, Soph.

8:31Victoria Harris: But I'm such a good student. A plus for you. So investing in shares or just investing in general can be so volatile and so unpredictable, especially if you're at the higher risk spectrum of investing. And diversification is just the spreading out of that risk. Yeah, like we said, don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you drop that basket, all your eggs are gone.

8:55Sophie Hallwright: And you've got no breakfast. No breakfast.

8:57Victoria Harris: No eggs medics, no scramble, nothing. Nothing, exactly. Whereas if you are carrying two baskets and you trip and you drop one, you've still got one basket of eggs left. So the diversification is not putting all your eggs in one basket. We say that because with investing, you always make bad decisions. You always make mistakes. Even the best investors in the world still make mistakes. Because there's such a level of uncertainty and unpredictability when it comes to investing, you can't foresee things as clearly, then, yeah, you just want to make sure that you're investing in different asset classes.

9:34Victoria Harris: And we say different asset classes because asset classes move in different ways. They have different market forces, I guess you'd call it.

9:41Sophie Hallwright: So say the stock market has a total shits itself or something, but you have invested in a, I don't know. In a term deposit, for example. Or you have property, and the property market's completely separate from that share market. Yeah.

9:53Victoria Harris: And then it's also diversifying within, it's not just across asset classes. That's exactly what I was going to ask you. It's diversifying within that again. So diversifying isn't just diversifying across those asset classes, it's diversifying within them as well. So when we say put some money in a term deposit and put some money in shares, it's then also going, well, within that share, that bucket of your share investment, diversify within that again. Invest in a few companies or a few sectors. In different industries. In different industries. Exactly. So it's diversification on diversification, I guess.

10:27Victoria Harris: It's the more you can diversify, the better, in my opinion.

10:30Sophie Hallwright: So you could have a million different baskets of beds and that would be the way to go.

10:33Victoria Harris: Yeah, there is kind of a statistical analogy around... Too many years? Too many. They kind of say like 20 to 30 stocks is when you kind of reach your peak diversification. But I mean, that's that discussion.

10:45Sophie Hallwright: I mean, who has that much money anyway?

10:47Victoria Harris: I know. If we're DIY investing, you're going to be able to do that. When we talk about what I do from a day-to-day basis, it's kind of saying that 20 to 30 stocks is the tipping point of diversification, I guess. It's just saying that it reduces the risk around making one bad decision. And I think if you had all your eggs in one basket, you made one bad decision, you've lost all your life savings. Like, that is terrifying. That is terrifying. No one wants to be in that position. So just make sure you're kind of spreading that risk. Enron example, ages ago, just kind of before my time, but anyway, and that was a big energy company, considered a very safe investment.

11:28Victoria Harris: And investments always are until they're not. And everyone that invested in that lost all their money. So it's kind of, yeah, people that had maybe had 20 % of their investment in that and 80 % elsewhere come out better off. They get a little scrape, but they don't lose their whole lot. Exactly. You're like, damn it, I stupidly invested in Eron. But rather than like, oh my God, I now have no money and I'm starting again from scratch. That's super depressing.

11:53Sophie Hallwright: Impedian. Yeah. It's so good to know. And that is the absolute reality, right? There will be that investment that you lose everything from.

12:03Victoria Harris: Exactly. And it's not just on the downside. It's not just a negative view. It's also better to think about it. It could increase your odds of success. So you might invest in, say, five companies and four of them kind of do all right, maybe one to two, five percent per year or whatever. And then there's one that just blows the lights out and does 50 percent. And you're sitting there going, wow, if I hadn't diversified into that fifth stock, my wealth at the end of 12 months and the size of my investment would have been a lot lower. We try to say, yeah, as long as you have more winners than losers.

12:37Victoria Harris: and if you had five stocks, you only need two or three of them to do well. Yeah, you only need a few to do well. And hopefully on average, it'll all net out and you'll have a great returning investment. So it's just, yeah, increasing your odds of investment success. Another way to think of it is no one knows for certain what's going to happen or who's going to win the race. So let's bet on a few horses. Can we stop going back to gambling? I must say I hate gambling. Let's think of a different example. It's like saying no one can know for certain of kind of who is going to win the race or what company is going to do well.

13:14Victoria Harris: Yeah, okay. And what the market's going to do. So let's invest in a few and spread that risk in the hope that at least a few that I pick will do well over the long term.

13:24Sophie Hallwright: And that's bringing your risk down massively, right?

13:26Victoria Harris: Exactly. Yeah, you can't really talk about diversification without talking about risk. And if I think of an everyday example, one I heard of the other day was like a street vendor, for example, that sells fruit. And if he only sold bananas and there was a massive drought that wiped out all the bananas, he'll have nothing to sell. So if you were that street vendor or you invested in just that street vendor, then your return would be he's got nothing to sell. He's got no money to make. He's got no revenue, no profits. If that street vendor himself had diversified and was selling oranges and bananas.

14:03Victoria Harris: And mangoes and strawberries. Yeah, exactly. He's spreading his risk around with the fruit. And also, if you'd invested in that street vendor, and you'd also invested in an orange street vendor and a strawberry street vendor, then you're also spreading your risk. It's investing in a whole bunch of stuff that allows you. It's fingers and lots of pies. Exactly. Fingers and lots of pies. Okay. It makes your journey of being financially secure in the long run less risky and hopefully more successful investing in shares. And when I say you can diversify across different asset classes, you can also diversify within asset classes.

14:39Victoria Harris: An example with that would be during COVID, if you had all your eggs in one basket that was flight center or travel stocks. and when the world went into lockdown and there was no travel and there was no one was getting flights, you would have lost a significant amount of your investment if you'd just invested in those companies or that industry. Whereas if you'd invested in a few of those travel stocks, but you'd also invested in e-commerce companies or... Supermarkets. Supermarkets or Amazon or online retailers that have done significantly well out of COVID, then net-net. You would have lost in the travel department,

15:15Sophie Hallwright: but gained in others.

15:17Victoria Harris: Yeah, so net-net you hopefully would have been on par or slightly better.

15:21Sophie Hallwright: Does net mean levelling it out?

15:23Victoria Harris: Yeah, so if you netted off your gainers and your losers, then net-net you would have been hopefully in an okay position rather than just investing in... Flight centre.

15:34Sophie Hallwright: Yeah. Invention.

15:35Victoria Harris: Oh, God, that's awful. Yeah, I guess I mean the flip side of that is like, oh, well, you could have invested entirely in e-commerce and online retailers and Amazon and you would have done fantastically well. It's like, yeah, but that's... How are you meant to know? You're not to know. And the thing is, nobody saw COVID coming. Nobody could have predicted the impact and the fact that 12 months later we're still not traveling. Because there's no visibility, there's always things that come out of the blue. Every day there's going to be something. There's always things that impact the market. It might be a political situation, change of regulation that might just cut a company's revenue because they now have to abide by new regulation.

16:09Victoria Harris: You know, there's always things that come out of the woodwork that you don't expect. And so it's really, really, really important. to diversify across different stocks and different companies. I feel like that's really sunken. Yeah. And same with property, for example, in that asset class. If you can afford to invest in multiple properties, invest in residential and commercial, even though the asset class as a whole will move in the same way, within that, you know, something disastrous might happen to one property and then you've said, hey, at least you've still got another one and that kind of thing.

16:40Sophie Hallwright: I wish we could invest in like dog kennels or something, like something that was much less expensive than a house. Honestly, the thought about that, I'm just like, oh my lord. I say diversify in property. Can't even buy a door handle, let alone a door or a house.

16:53Victoria Harris: And that's the great thing about investing in shares is that it's...

16:56Sophie Hallwright: You can start lower. Yeah, you can start with$50.

16:58Victoria Harris: You can start with$100.

17:00Sophie Hallwright: And I think as well, just hearing you speak about learning from your mistakes and kind of growing from that, it's cool that you can do that with like stocks and shares. You can't do that with property. You can't go and buy a commercial property and then have a big whoopsie and learn from it. It's not the same. So if someone can't afford a deposit for a house, you can still dabble in investing and learn. It's just not the same amount of capital that you're starting with.

17:23Victoria Harris: You don't need to have a$200 ,000 deposit to be able to buy an average house in Auckland. It's just like, it's nuts. And there's the benefit of being able to get out quickly if you do make a mistake or if you do need your money.

17:35Sophie Hallwright: Can I ask what you've done and how you've diversified?

17:39Victoria Harris: Yeah, well, I guess I have invested in property. I bought a property about five years ago. I also invest in shares. And I've also diversified by investing in different funds. I also get asked a lot by friends, hey, I want to invest with this fund manager. What fund would you suggest? And I tell them, look, I can't actually give you advice, but you should just always diversify. And if you can't decide or you don't want to put all your eggs in kind of one growth fund, why don't you diversify? and put some in a more conservative fund and some in a growth fund.

18:14Sophie Hallwright: And does that mean we're in the same company? Or do you mean even as far as going from a different fund manager to a different company to another one?

18:20Victoria Harris: Yeah, I mean, if you had the funds, yeah, invest across different fund managers. That's even further diversification. Yeah, you can diversify with different fund managers. You can diversify different funds at those fund managers. And the great thing about investing in a fund is that the fund manager diversifies it for you as well because they're investing in anywhere, it depends on the fund, from 20 companies to 60 to 100 companies. So that's kind of what you pay a fund manager to do for you is that diversification piece. Because they've got a pool of money, right? They've got the experience and they've got ability to do that diversification for you.

19:01Victoria Harris: And when you invest in a growth fund versus a kind of conservative fund, The growth funds usually mainly shares, so it's a bit more high risk. And then the conservative funds are usually cash investments or... Bonds? Bonds, yeah. Low risk share. But fixed return.

19:19Sophie Hallwright: Yeah, there'll be low risk. Can you notice me trying to throw in my knowledge here? I'm like, oh, I know what a bond is.

19:24Victoria Harris: Yeah, conservative funds are usually cash. So there might be a bit of term deposits in there. There might be some bonds in there. There might be some small, small, small allocation to shares and companies. And when I say low-risk companies, I'm talking about companies that are very low growth but defensive. So think about, yeah, your electricity companies, your utility companies, companies that people use all the time.

19:52Sophie Hallwright: There's not a lot of room for them to totally fall to the ground, basically.

19:55Victoria Harris: I mean, there's still a risk because you're still investing in shares, which are higher risk generally. but because there's such a small allocation to them within that fund, the overall fund is lower risk. And you usually pay fees-wise, you'd pay lower fees on the more conservative fund than you would on the higher risk fund. And then there's usually a balanced fund within there, which is a combination of both. So diversification on diversification on diversification. If you separated your investment across fund managers, then separated it across funds, and then the fund manager or the portfolio manager of that fund diversifies across companies for you.

20:30Sophie Hallwright: So you've got your property and you also have your obviously invest in shares and in the stock market and things that you see and you believe in. But then on top of that, you also give your money to fund managers to then do it for you as well. So you've. Yes. That's so interesting. I would have thought that you would just do it all yourself because that's your job. So it's cool to know that you also are trusting those people with your money.

20:50Victoria Harris: Yeah. Gosh, I always make mistakes as well. So I guess I maybe should back myself a bit more, but I just love diversification. And I think it's, yeah, the more you can do it, the better. And even in my own personal money that I manage, that I've gotten shares, I've diversified. I'm very conscious to not invest in multiple companies in the same industry. Try and look and find, okay, well, what's the best company within an industry? Or hang on a second, I've got a lot of investments in clean energy or solar companies. So, oh, if there's a change in regulation or there is a change to that industry that could affect all those companies, then that could affect my whole share portfolio.

21:28Victoria Harris: So looking at your portfolio and going, okay, cool, I might have one healthcare company, one retailer, one financial company. Within my share portfolio, there's not a whole lot of eggs in one basket.

21:40Sophie Hallwright: Do you know what your fund managers are investing in so that what you're investing in from your personal portfolio is different again from that?

21:48Victoria Harris: Yes. Yeah. So they disclose what they invest in and they They usually only disclose kind of the top holdings. What is top holdings? Like the top positions in that fund. So the top five or 10 positions.

22:00Sophie Hallwright: Is that the biggest earners?

22:01Victoria Harris: It's the...

22:02Sophie Hallwright: The percentage of money that goes to those? Exactly. Yeah.

22:04Victoria Harris: But I kind of figure that, yes, you don't want to be doubling up, but it's diversified enough, if that makes sense.

22:11Sophie Hallwright: So you're not checking what they're doing and making sure you're not doing the same. You're not like looking at your portfolio and saying, oh, they've also invested in Flight Centre, I won't?

22:20Victoria Harris: No, and it's a bit hard because fund managers, it's so fluid and you don't get to see what they're investing in day to day. They only give you kind of a static update every month, for example. So it's hard to try and decide what not or what to invest in. You're not really comparing apples with apples, if that makes sense. You're already diversifying by giving some money to a fund manager. So I'm happy with that.

22:42Sophie Hallwright: You don't micromanage their funds.

22:43Victoria Harris: Yeah, I'm not trying to micromanage or trying to match up to make sure I'm not in what they're in. And then you give your money to a fund manager on the premise that they are an expert in what they do. You're trusting them. Yeah, you're trusting them to make the decisions for you. I mean, some people do the opposite and try to double down and think, oh, that's what they're picking for investing. Oh, I'm going to go and that's their top five positions in that fund. I'm going to go and invest that directly myself. And then you're kind of undoing your diversification.

23:13Sophie Hallwright: Diversification. Fantastic new word.

23:15Victoria Harris: You're kind of doubling down on what they're investing in.

23:19Sophie Hallwright: You might as well just give them more money for that fund.

23:21Victoria Harris: Yeah, exactly, exactly. But some people kind of like to do it themselves and the thrill and the excitement of kind of investing themselves. But they then again don't know when that fund manager is getting out of that position. True. So there might have been some news that's come to light that they actually sold that position and you've... Five years later, you're still on. Yeah, you're still on.

23:40Sophie Hallwright: So diversify, diversify, diversify across anything within the same asset classes just as much as you can.

23:47Victoria Harris: Yes, yeah, diversify, diversify, diversify.

23:49Sophie Hallwright: Is there too much in terms of, I know you mentioned before that, you know, 20 or 30 in terms of the stock market is probably as broad as you would go. What about the percentage you're giving someone is, you know, $1 ,000 here,$1 ,000 there? Is that too, is it spreading yourself too thin? Are you better to maybe have five ways that you diversify and keeping that as a solid amount of money?

24:11Victoria Harris: Yeah, I think it kind of depends on your personal situation. And some people might, you might not have the ability to diversify, you know, particularly when it comes to property, like you need a big chunk of money to be able to diversify. Oh, I'm totally talking about the stock market. Yeah, if we just talk about the stock market, then maybe each time that you want to kind of invest new money, you know, maybe look at an idea that's not currently what you're investing in. so yeah say you have you know a few companies say you've got five companies across healthcare you know a retailer a you know a media company and then the next one oh maybe I'll look at more of a financials company and try and find you know some people like to stick to industries they know as well and invest in I'm just going to invest in health in healthcare companies and diversify within because I know them because I know I maybe I'm an ex-doctor or you know that connected to it in some way.

25:00Victoria Harris: Yeah, and I will just diversify within that sector, and that's totally fine. It's don't think, oh, my gosh, I have to hold a bank because I need to budget to... Vic, don't want me to diversify. That's like, yeah, and if you don't know anything about banks or investing in banks, then you literally are just throwing darts at a dartboard and hoping that, oh, this bank that I invested in will do well. So it's not spreading yourself too thin, I guess, is what I'm saying. Okay, that's good advice. Don't get too hung up on it, but the more you can do it, the better. Yeah.

25:28Sophie Hallwright: Okay, brilliant. Diversification. Not diversification. Exactly. Not diversification.

25:35Victoria Harris: What are we going to talk about next time, Burke? So next time, I think we really need to talk about what moves the stock. What does the share price mean? What moves the stock market? Because we're talking about diversification. We're talking about how these asset classes move in different ways. But what moves the share price?

25:50Sophie Hallwright: So we're actually going to focus on one asset class and how that particular asset class, i.e. the stock market, moves and why. Yeah, exactly.

25:57Victoria Harris: And I think that's a really kind of exciting topic to talk about.

26:00Sophie Hallwright: Especially because, and I'm speaking for myself here, but I don't have enough money to diversify into property. So to really focus and hone in on the stock market, I think is a really cool start because it feels like whether you have five, ten, fifty, fifty thousand, it's something that we can all dabble in and start to learn more about.

26:16Victoria Harris: And what does the share price of a dollar mean? What does the share price of$250 mean? we'll really break that down so that you can kind of look at a share price and look at a company and figure out what to invest in

26:27Sophie Hallwright: oh I feel excited great you don't sound excited by the way great

26:34Victoria Harris: yeah no it should be it'll be really exciting it'll be a good episode as they all are yeah

26:39Sophie Hallwright: God we're good aren't we

26:40Victoria Harris: thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curb these conversations are designed to teach you everything you need to know to be better with your money from saving to investing to talking with your friends about your salaries all of that stuff

26:49Sophie Hallwright: and if you like what you heard we would love if you could please hit subscribe wherever you're listening and leave a comment. Let us know what you thought about the episode. And it only takes one second

26:58Victoria Harris: and it would really make our week, our month, our year. Yeah. Yeah. So please do it. Okay. Love you. Bye.

27:07Sophie Hallwright: Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors.

27:13Victoria Harris: Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

27:22Sophie Hallwright: And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this. She's got a breakaway. She's all alone. She's going. She's going. Oh, no. Wrong goal, kiddo. It's chaos out there. Their stomachs don't have to be. Introducing Culturel Kids Probiotics Plus Electrolytes Sugar-free, more hydrating than water alone From the number one pediatrician recommended brand Youth soccer is never boring But your kid's stomach should be Culturel Probiotics The science of a boring gut See website for details