Is being chronically single the new savings hack?

0:01Vic: Coming up in today's episode, we talk about Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, has sold $4 billion of stock, and we dig into what this tells us about the company and why a founder selling could be a green flag or a red flag. There is a fashion label that most of you will know. It's called Reformation, and it's about to go public for the first time. So we discuss whether or not Vic will be investing in it for the Curve Fund. The average cost of a date now in the US costs$189. Does this mean people are stopping dating? Or are we pivoting to things like coffee dates, walking dates, picnics? Quick PSA on this story.

0:36Time magazine reported on this, and it is a heteronormative conversation. So the stats that they reference are male-female dating. We realize that that's not the case, everyone was saying.

0:46Vic: And remember all the hype that was the SpaceX IPO? Well, it has come crashing back down to Earth. This is The Curve Weekly, where I read the finance news so you don't have to. I'm Vic Harris, a finance professional who had a career making money for other people. And I'm Sophie Hallwright, ex-TV radio producer who was very exhausted with not understanding anything about how to grow wealth or invest or anything to do with the economy, so we started this podcast. But before we dive into the headlines, we've got a word from today's sponsor. This episode of The Curve Weekly is made possible thanks to Pathfinder KiwiSaver Plan, helping you invest alongside your values.

1:19We're really excited to bring you the ethical hotline where you can ask all your tricky ethical questions. Each month, Pathfinder will answer the most interesting, popular, or polarizing question. To submit yours, follow the link in the podcast show notes. Pathfinder Asset Management Limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder KiwiSaver plan. A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi. Vic, you've had an absolute whirlwind of a month. How does it feel to be back in London? It's like, what was July? I know. It's like I've sneezed and it's just... Well, it does feel like you kind of went down a hole.

1:52Like you sort of did disappear for everyone for the whole month.

1:55Vic: Quite nice. Was it? I'm blank. I literally went home on a plane, went straight to my parents and just like hibernated for a month. It was actually great. Because they weren't there, were they? No, they weren't. Yeah, yeah. Oh, right. So you went back to 18-year-old Vic. Yeah. But it was also like, it's middle of winter. Nobody's really doing anything in New Zealand. Yeah. But then I had this one meeting at this cafe and a friend walked past and she was like, what?

2:23Vic: And I was like, you know when you're like awkwardly in a meeting and you're like, I'll talk to you in a seat. And you're like, sorry. And then I got this text later. She's like, are you back? And I was like, oh. I was like, no. No, I love my friends. It was just more like, then people are like, obviously they want to see you. And it's beautiful. And it's lovely. And I want to see them too. So sarcastic. No, it's like. It's beautiful. I want to see them too. But I was just, yeah. So. No, I think New Zealand's one of those places you kind of, you either go in like you did and sort of a show at home stealthy.

2:51I'm not going to see it. Or you have to have 150 coffees, which is so lovely and it's so nice to go. But you've got to commit.

3:00Vic: And then the last week, yeah, everyone's like, I want to see you. And I'm just like, sorry. We'll be back soon. We'll be back soon. No, the week you leave is the most stressful because everyone, do you know what I find? You go home, and this is what happens every summer that we go home. People ease themselves into the idea that you're back. They don't, they, you know, you obviously see them, but it's not like really concentrated time. And then the week before you leave that all of a sudden like, oh God, you'll leave it. Can I see you now, now, now? And you're like, no, because I've already been back for ages.

3:29Vic: And it's quite egotistical, but sometimes it's like, I'm back guys. I'm going to be at this bar between this time. Come see me. I think that's a better way to do it. I almost just expect that I'm going to just drop into normal social life and they're going to remember I'm around and constantly invite me. But also like, I'm kind of back every few months now. so it's kind of I'm back they're like did you leave? I wasn't sure I know everyone's kind of like oh you're back here now okay so the fund has launched the fund has launched thank so it's really funny because this is for ages we've been like something's coming oh like we haven't been able to talk about it and does it feel I mean for me I'm like it's so great the cat's out of the bag I sat on the plane and burst into tears did you and it was I was just more like I've had the most and I'm gonna cry now the most incredible messages from people like it's outrageous like friends from school when I was like 10 and we haven't spoken to each other you know and they're like oh my god Vic see what you're doing like it's just honestly ex-colleagues the community just like everyone and I feel so terrible because I haven't been able to go back to a lot of them but I was just sitting there on the plane and I was like wow it takes a lot for someone to reach out send an email send a text and you know like people can think oh you know the kids are doing great job or like you know amazing they've launched fun but it's like to actually sit down and put not pen to paper anymore but you know totally it takes an yeah and I just think it's like I don't know you're sometimes just so stuck in the weeds and trying to get this across the line and get it launched that you don't realize yeah you don't stop and smell the roses but no it has been amazing we've actually never had so many comments sort of podcast ever it was like 50 people commenting all these amazing messages and like we've had so many people dm and email and just yeah definitely wanted to say thank you to everyone that's been so supportive because holy shit i had one friend what is this

5:29Vic: what do you mean oh girl i was like where do i start i was you know i was kind of like oh but there's probably don't know what a fund is or don't know and i was like no fair enough like We're like, look at investments, look at fund. But it's like, now you can invest with us. But is it a trading platform? No, it's actually so interesting you say that because a lot of people have, especially over here in the UK, when I said, oh, we're launching a fund. And they're like, oh, a what? And I'm like, oh, Vic's going back to portfolio management. And they're like, it's a job? You know, what do you mean?

5:59I know. We should do a deep dive. Well, for anyone that doesn't know very, very quickly, Vic used to work as a fund manager. So she used to work basically as a professional investor where she would have a big portfolio of people's money and she would decide as a collective where she thought was the best investment. So she would divest from things that, you know, didn't seem like a good idea anymore and she would find new ideas and invest in that. And basically it's just giving your money to a professional. It's the difference between like DIY cutting your hair at home and going to a hairdresser.

6:26If you want to invest yourself, you can, but you can also give it to someone else. And so for anyone that doesn't know, we have just launched a fund that Vic will be managing. So it's essentially if you want to invest but you feel a bit scared or overwhelmed with options, you can just be like, Vic, help a girl out. I can take yours. Anyway, very exciting. If anyone wants to find out more about the Curve Fund or the Curve Investments, we'll link everything in the podcast show notes for you. But, Vic, I will just say absolutely thrilled to have you back on the podcast. all of us have just been like shit, you know when you're so used to something, it's like having a finger or a toe or a, you know, there's like I love being your toe

7:09Vic: I'd be the pinky, right? Yeah No, a very important pinky, you know and you're like, all of a sudden like, oh my god The pinky is the most unimportant toe No, okay, okay, big toe No, actually it's for balance If you don't have any of the toes, you actually can't walk Anyway, point is, it's bloody good to have you back I will say

7:28Vic: Okay Jeff Bezos. Our favourite guy. Our favourite guy. Amazon founder has just sold$4 billion worth of Amazon stock. Billion. So he's trying to throw another ball or something? Another marriage maybe? Yeah. Yeah, another super yacht. I don't know. $4 billion. How much of that is, like how much stock is that? So it's 15 million shares. Which is what percentage of what he owns? So he owns, so 1.7%. Is that it? oh god see most people would see that headline and think oh well amazon must be absolutely shitting itself if he's selling four billion and i think this this is why i wanted to put it in here it's like sometimes the news is so click-baity because i read it and i was like oh oh oh gosh well this is good for the click play and then start reading and i was like it's only 1.7 but i think it's a good i mean we always talk about how founders and founders owning stock i mean he's not involved in the business anymore he stopped being ceo in 2021 anyway yes it's only 1.7 percent of his overall holdings he still owns around nine percent of amazon is the largest shareholder and he has been selling down from about 14 percent ever since he stepped back from ceo imagine just having that money and being like i'm gonna cash in a bit yeah just a little bit you know just A few billion.

8:48Oh, it would just be so, honestly, even a hundred thousand. I would be, oh my God, fanning myself with dollar bills. But this is exactly like building a business versus like being an employee or having a salary job.

9:05Vic: You know, like when you're growing wealth and you have assets, there are times where you can, even if it is a huge stock portfolio, right? you get to a point you can be like, cool, I'm actually going to need some of that money because I want to do X, Y, Z. And so when you've built that wealth, you can tap into it. It's not obviously readily disposable like cash. But the reason this is in here is, yes, A, it's not a big red flag. I think the amount makes it feel like a red flag. But he also, if he really believed in Amazon for the next 10, 20 years, you wouldn't be selling. You wouldn't? No. Really?

9:44Even just Just a little bit. It's a tiny percentage. If you really believed that the business was going to absolutely fly. See, I kind of feel like in 10, 20, 15 years, he might not be alive. I think he might just be wanting to live his best life. No, I know.

9:55Vic: But if you genuinely thought, okay, this money is going to double in five years, you would be putting every single dollar in there. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like there is multiple reasons. Especially, I guess, when he's got so much money already. It's not as though he's needed. sell your yacht that's not going up in value yeah you know yeah yeah that's interesting so you're saying while it's not a giant red flag like it's being reported it's also it's not nothing no and he has set up certain periods throughout the year where they can sell stock so it's so that it prevents them from like insider trading and stuff and so founders ceos you know members of the board that that's how it's kind of set up when you're a public company and so this was like a window that they could sell and he sold.

10:44Vic: And look, Amazon has had a really good year. It's up to all-time highs. Its share price is at all-time highs. It's never been this high before. And its market cap now hit$3 trillion. So that is the value of the company. Yes, the shares times the share price. And the share price is the one that goes up and down. Usually the amount of shares that are available to buy and sell stays roughly the same. And then you've got the share price which moves up and down. So that's what market cap goes, you know, increases or decreases depending on the share price. And so because the share price has done so well, the market cap has done really well.

11:19Vic: And it's now worth, the company itself is worth$3 trillion, which is the same size as the entire UK economy. It's the same size as Amazon. Imagine building a company. I cannot. That is the same size as what was the financial hub of the world at one point. That is mind blowing. How do you not have an ego? Are you literally about to say the same thing? I wish think I was God's gift to the world. That is crazy. And it's so funny because you look at whether it's celebrities or founders that have all this money and you're like, it's so embarrassing how arrogant they are. Imagine if that's how you've done all your willpower and counseling and like to not turn into an egomania.

11:59Vic: Honestly. Imagine sitting here going, I own a company worth this entire country. I'd be like, you want to talk to me? Yeah. How about that? Line up. anyway jeff bezos still has 200 billion in amazon shares so he's still doing fine but yeah i guess the takeaway from this read between the lines um because someone could read this and people did the share price fell for a bit and it's now rebounded so be aware of the headlines that you're reading it's not all bad it's not all a red flag sometimes but um yeah and it's the The biggest thing you should look at is what size of their shares is it. Is it 20%, 40%, 50%, all of it that they're selling?

12:47Vic: If it's all of it, huge red flag. Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's a big portion, huge red flag. We've also had a new IPO, a women's clothing brand, which I know stuff loves. What do you mean? Are you saying you're pissed because I love this brand? No, I saw this and I sent it to the group chat and got like crickets. What group chat did you send it to? I was kind of like, oh, I thought this would pop off. And then when I put this in the prep sheet and I was like, surely they're talking about this? And then everyone was like, great prep sheet. But I was like, oh, my God, they didn't speak about it. No, no, no, we didn't.

13:19Vic: And I was like, what group chat are you talking about? The Instagram one. Oh, I fully missed it. Sorry. The picture. So the company is Reformation. And love Reformation. We love Reformation. We love Reformation. And it went public on the New York Stock Exchange. and the images are iconic. Wait, I've missed all this. We'll share them on the screen, but it is like girls with their heels on, like the trading for, oh, it's so iconic. And I don't know, I saw that and I was like, the world's changing. You know, how cool. They're making like finance cool. Yeah. Reformation. Maybe we should be wearing it.

13:57Vic: Yeah, we should. But anyway, listed on New York Stock Exchange last week, raised$200 million. And so the company's valued at about a billion, a billion dollars, which is massive for a clothing retailer. Look, day one didn't do too well, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Look, it's still above its IPO price, which is amazing news. I find the companies that come straight out the gates, all this hype, all this FOMO, do really well. Yeah, exactly. Just, you know, it's like, just be the cool stealth one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you don't want to shoot the lights out on day one because it means that there obviously wasn't the right balance of like supply and demand.

14:40Vic: And, you know, there was hype, which hype disappears really quickly. You want genuine people believing in the story, long to investors. I don't know. I just, I feel like when IPOs just kind of glide onto the stock exchange. I think it's worth bringing up Sarah Crampton, who has a really cool fashion. it's almost like a um fashion blogger like she's been around yeah i remember meeting her in sydney like 10 years ago but anyway she put a really good post out we should um we should share it or put something on the screen but she was basically comparing the fashion industry with finance in a really clever way i was like how have we not thought of this i know it was so iconic she's like stock exchange is like a department store an ipo is like when you when a company does a brand launch yeah and just like all and I was like oh my gosh it's like for all the fashion girlies out there so so so iconic just the way she explains stuff the thing with an IPO is I understand why the company wants to have heaps of hype because that is the only time the money goes into the business yes so for example if if the IPO is like valued really high it means the company's able to get more money because once it's only before IPOs though once it's on the stock market anything above that day or that price.

15:55Vic: So you want to get a high valuation for your business before you IPO because then that money. That's what I mean though. But then you also want to leave a bit of money on the table in terms of, yeah, because you want people to buy shares once it's IPO. But that's the thing. So what Vic's saying is you don't want all the demand to have gone basically in the IPO because that's when the share price will tank because everyone's bought it. So it's finding that right balance of buyers and sellers because if everyone's got what they want, you know, when the company IPOs in terms of, you know, buying shares, then there's no one to buy it once it IPOs.

16:31Vic: So, yeah, this is why it's really interesting to strike that right balance. And then also you want to IPO on the stock market when it's doing well so that people are feeling euphoric in buying shares. You know, if you bought, you know, in, what is it, February, sorry, if you IPO'd in February 2020 when the stock market was absolutely tanking, good luck. Yeah. All of this stuff adds to it. But let's talk about Reformation as a business. So it actually started as a vintage clothing brand, right? It wasn't actually creating it. And I remember even in London a couple of years ago, they had a shop in central London and they had vintage stuff in there.

17:11And I remember thinking, this is so cool that they have new and vintage. I don't think they do anymore. I remember when you first wore it and I thought it was a second-hand clothing store. What was it?

17:20Vic: Maybe it was. It might have been though because they did for a long time still have a bit of their roots of vintage in there. So they have a curated rack of vintage clothing. But let's just talk about the business, how it started, how it's gone because it is quite interesting. Am I right in thinking it started like around the time I left school, like 2009, 2010? Yes, no, it started in 2009 and it now has revenue of over 500 million and got a million active customers. Their clothes have been worn by like Taylor Swift, Kendall Jenner, Jennifer Lopez, Hailey Bieber. Like it's insane. It's so cool.

17:57Vic: And it has still got that sustainable angle to it, which is really, really great. And that's why a lot of people are loving it. What does it have in terms of sustainability now? Is it the way that like the textiles, the material it uses? Because it is really, really hard for a fashion brand to be sustainable or, you know, I mean, by nature, creating various different seasons of clothes where people don't actually need that many clothes. It's hard. The whole model of fashion, right, is new seasons, new collections, buy more, you know, like rotate your wardrobe. It's over consumption. Yeah. and like if we look at other IPOs like Allbirds that was sustainable fashion absolute flop Rent the Runway that was another kind of sustainable you know how renting.

18:47Vic: Rent the Runway. Like a designer wardrobe. Not a great name. No that also IPO didn't do too well so I don't know I'm hoping that this it's not I don't when I think of reformation I don't think of it as and maybe this is not right but I don't think of it hugely as a sustainable fashion brand. So maybe it's probably a blessing in disguise that it hasn't really leant on that kind of sustainable angle so much that it's got lumped into that kind of area. I don't know. No, I know what you're saying because I definitely agree. I think there's something about the sustainable angle that it's almost like, you know, I don't even know how to explain this.

19:31I feel like maybe I'm going to offend people. But you know how sometimes there's like an element of the health and well-being industry where people don't value their time or aren't paid well, whether it's like a yoga teacher. Yeah, yeah. Like there's some parts of the health and wellness space that people are making a lot of money out of. But then there's almost this like more sort of hippie side that is not really very… Taken seriously almost, which is horrible. It sucks because there's a lot of… Yeah, so it's sort of… It's not valued in the same way. And I do think that there's an element of the sustainability space that's similar.

20:04It's almost like you can't at the same time be profitable and taken seriously as a business while also…

20:11Vic: also it's the same with investing right it's like oh i want to invest in sustainable fund or a non-sustain like it's like why can't we just make it all one together you know like or why does it have to have labels on it and why can't everyone just be sustainably focused in terms of i mean i think it's clever actually that they haven't really really focused on that because what they've done is just create a really aspirational cool brand that has great styles and i don't think is that You know, there's some brands where it's so iconic, the season and the print. And everyone's like, oh, that's that brand from 2012 or whatever.

20:50No one remembers that long ago. But do you know what I mean? Whereas I feel like Reformation, their stuff, you still could wear after buying it five years ago. And it still looks really cool and isn't so synonymous with the brand.

21:02Vic: Yes. And like what I also like about it is a lot of their product is sold at full price. Because the discounting, that's when you start to encourage people to churn their wardrobes or overconsume. And so that's kind of also one of the green flags of this. And also, so when you're not discounting, that means that your margin, so what you're making on each item, is really high. And so that was another attractive thing of this. Also founded by a woman. CEO is also a woman. And the entire customer base is pretty much woman. we love to see it love to see it that's just absolutely stunning so yeah this is one that i'm looking at look i don't really i like to give ipos a bit of breathing space but this is one definitely on my radar for the fund 100 oh it's so fun that we can say that i know oh my god just in case you know in case you've missed it we have a fund yeah a fund so we may be invested in reformation yes yeah god that's good and like the amount of time sorry back background the amount of times we've been recording this podcast and we've been like is it gonna be in the god we can't talk about it yet this is just absolutely stunning and also the other exciting like all the ipos recently have been ai stocks or you know it's been like in defense but like they're so it's exciting to have something consumer focused yeah yeah yeah so um i think it's so hard with fashion labels whether it's Chuck Taylor's, is it Doc Martens?

22:35Doc Martens, yeah. Because if it's really trend-based, how is there longevity in a brand? I think it's so hard. Birkenstocks, there's some OG brands that can really stand the test of time. But from what we've spoken about on the podcast and what you've said, there's not that many businesses that can stay cool. It's almost like a cool new restaurant. It's cool for two years and then it doesn't do that well.

23:01Vic: Yeah. Unfortunately, Inditex, which owns Zara and a few other brands, is one of the companies that's done well. But again, it ebbs and flows, right? But it does well because it can follow trends in such a close way. Fast fashion is very different because something like Birkenstocks or Doc Martens, they're not constantly changing their shoe to match fashion trends. I think that's what's really difficult. and the private equity firm that owned Reformation and then sold it when it IPO'd, and this is what happens to a lot of companies, so the private equity will come in, you know, make a whole of the chain and then IPO it and then they sell a portion of their stake.

23:40Vic: They've only sold a small portion, so there's still large shareholders, which I kind of like. I'm like, okay, you obviously see that there's, you know, upside and there's going to be like growth going forward once it's a public company. But on the other side of things, they also backed Doc Martens. which has not done very well at all. It's fallen more than 80 % since I was up here. 80 %? So yeah. Oh, wow. Some green flags, some red flags. Coming up after the break is the cost of living crisis rewiring the dating scene. Stick around to find out. But first, we've got a word from today's sponsor.

24:15A recent study Mindful Money did found that 50 % of New Zealand investors are worried about greenwashing. And honestly, I get it. it's really hard to know what to trust these days.

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24:59Vic: Honestly, sound like a broker-regal sometimes, the cost-of-living crisis. Like, when is this crisis ending? This crisis has been going on for a long time. Crisis is, it's almost like the boy that cried wolf, isn't it? Yeah. Because I'm no longer crying. It's almost like when we started saying unprecedented times all through COVID. It was like, well, we're just in precedent times at this point, you know? No, but it's like, people were asking me when I was in New Zealand, oh, so how's the heat wave? I was like, oh, it's been stopped calling a heatwave because it's just hot all the time. There's no wave.

25:26Vic: The wave has just come and stayed. And it's kind of like this. It's like, this is just cost of living now. Yeah, let's draw the crisis. We're all in crisis. Everyone is in crisis because it's just so bloody expensive. Weirdly, I was having a big meltdown the other day because I've been trying so hard to be budgeting. It is halfway through the month. So, well, technically there's a week to go in terms of when I get paid next. if I look at my account and this is I would like to say this is from actually trying you know like I'm really trying to be good with my money I have 17 pence in my essentials do we say pence still whatever I mean it's I'm not into pence yeah same thing pence pence I said the other night I was like oh and it was 13 quid and it just rolled off the top and I was like look at me I'm a bloody local because we'd be like pounds pounds pounds pounds and then I have I have four pounds and 53 pence in my fun money I mean what the hell I've got a whole week and I am gutted about the fact that I have to lay solo this weekend to absolutely nothing because I can't afford to do anything even buy myself an apple at the grocery store and I was having a big meltdown about it because I was just thinking, oh my God, I'm trying.

26:42Why am I running out of money? And I did have someone remind me, inflation is really, and the cost of living is a thing. You think probably what you've budgeted and what you've put aside is enough, but inflation is constantly eating away, which means you need more and more to buy the things that you think you need. 100%. And I was like, thank you, because I feel crazy that I've done all this work to be clever with my money, and I just keep running out. It's like, no, inflation is meaning what you can buy and do with that money is less. So you need to put more money in those buckets. And it was just a real aha moment.

27:16Or make it grow more.

27:18Vic: But you can't when you're spending it. But this is my everyday money. This isn't me spending, you know, this is my transaction accounts. It's worse when I think of like my parents, right? Like at least we can take some risk and invest and grow our money for the next, you know, five, ten years. I think about my parents and other pensioners who, you know, they're now retired. They now have a pool of money they're drawing down on each month, each year. And that now goes this far. And they're not earning. I don't know. I'm just like, wow. They just sit there and go, shit, the price of butter is now, you know.

27:55Vic: $150. Yeah. Rather than what, yeah. Anyway. Love butter. Okay. It's also, however, the cost of living crisis impacting how we're dating. Yeah, it's just like filtering in throughout everywhere. How fun. Oh, my God. No, yeah. I mean, we don't need anything else adding to the dire straits that is the dating world, you know? Yeah. You have to have so much optimism and perseverance in today's dating world. And I will say, I think that the last thing anyone needs is some negative news that it's going to be harder. There was a Time magazine article that came out and it said the average date in the US now costs$189.

28:37Where are they going? And I'm like, what dates are you going on?

28:42Vic: But I guess that would be a relaxed dinner with one drink. Oh, totally. Yeah, if you're going for dinner and a drink and you're tipping in the US as well, like easily$189. There's stats out that show that 51 % of Americans now are going on fewer dates because of the economy. And in particular, Gen Z is going on way less dates. So it's sad that, you know, kind of poverty or the price of things, the crisis is having an impact on social lives in a sense and people having human connection. I think the thing that's interesting with dating is, you know, if it's a friend, for example, sure, you can go for a walk to a park.

29:21you could go and get a coffee you can do something more lo-fi I really do think and I had friends who were going on breakfast dates and you know 7 a.m walks I just you're not exactly setting the scene for romance to kick off so my point here is I do think in a dating or romantic sense particularly early on setting and spending money to be in an environment where something could bubble up I think makes a difference I think if you're going for a walk around a park you've never met someone It's the kind of thing you do when you don't need to be like chatting 24-7.

29:55Vic: Or by, you know what I mean? Or you've got a drink and you're having a bit of liquid confidence and you're like, you're talking about the meal and you've got like, yeah. Lighting. I mean, you get dressed up. And also where they take you and or like where you go, do you like the same cuisine? Yeah. And people judge people who don't spend money on them on the first few days. I'm sorry to say it. Which is the whole conversation, right? It's like, should we be less judgmental considering the environment we're in? And there's this whole conversation going on right now where people are going on coffee dates.

30:25Vic: And it's kind of become polarizing because it's like, well, no, I want to go for dinner or I want to go like what you said. Spend money on me if you like me. Yeah. But how do they know if they're going to like you if they've never dated you before? And then also, what if they're going on five dates that week at$189 a pop? Like, yeah. Anyway. Oh, it's really hard. Yeah. Maybe there needs to be a rule where you can – The second date. The second date is you can invest, you know. If the first date's good, then you go to$190. Yeah. Around. I don't know. And I want – personally, I want to encourage people to go dating and not be sitting on the apps and, like, you know.

31:01Vic: I don't know. Yeah. I personally would be okay with a coffee date. Would you? No. I don't know. I think I would rather go for one drink. I think coffee's the morning and I think it's the time of day. It's not so much about the money in that scenario. I just don't think if I met someone for a coffee, I'm going to be – That would be like, what do you want Sophie? You'd be like, um, um. Yo. What do you get? What do you think? Oh, no, no, actually, I'll get an, oh, nah. I'll just have what you had. Oh, nah. Sure. I've gotten way better. I'm just doing a normal flat white with normal milk these days, although I will say yesterday I tried a dirty chai.

31:37Oh, yeah, yeah.

31:39Vic: Divine. I ordered one like a few years ago, and the barista was like, dirty chai for a dirty dot dot dot and I was like oh I realized like dirty oh but I think it's quite interesting because there's 71 % of men still expect to pay for everything early on that is quite a lot and 52 % of women expect to split the bill at this point and so that to me shows that there's women that are aware of how expensive it is and they're willing if they want to go on a date and they want to connect with someone they're actually really willing to split whereas there's still this pressure from men that men feel to pay for the whole thing i'm more i want them to make the effort and pay on the first date which sounds weird because i've got financial podcast i don't know but i don't expect 189 first date i expect an effort i mean like do a picnic or like yeah go for a walk you would not honestly i would i and then the next date we can go and go oh we're sitting down here okay i'll um i'll just kick off my heels um oh you've bought cam and bert okay you would not be into it no but also that those stats 71 % of men expect to pay for everything everything early on and 52 % of women now split there must be so many people dating that go to the till to pay and it's freaking awkward because the guy's like well i don't want to you know disempower her by paying but then i don't want to seem you know like sure all these sorority's dead so i'll pay i don't know and then the girl's going he better not pay because i am so independent or he better pay because he better show yeah oh like but then i think it just comes down to communication it's the wild west out there but then i even with friends i get awkward pay it's so funny like paying for the bill also if someone you're right if people are going on two three dates a week that is outrageously expensive and it is unfair yeah i wonder how many women are opting out of dating versus men based on finances because if people are splitting and not expecting men to pay those are types of people that would be opting out of dating because they're like i can't afford it oh sorry i'm sorry what we pay to even prepare for the date this is a whole so this is the point that we've been speaking about on the podcast actually in the last few weeks we have been talking a lot about the beauty tax yeah i think it's true think about how much we did even to get ready for this podcast compared to if it was a guy they come and they just literally put on their clean underwear and clothes i had this conversation flower man i was like i had a podcast in new zealand and i was like oh thank goodness it's audio i don't have to put on makeup it was just audio only i didn't have to put makeup on and he's like why i said i just hate wearing makeup He's like, why do you?

34:24Vic: And I was like, oh, don't even get – I do not have time for this. I was like, because society expects me to because there is research that shows if you don't present yourself as a woman, anyway, different standards. And he was like, gotcha. I wouldn't be bringing that one up again. But, yeah, I do think – I mean, it's worth acknowledging as a guy. I think it's really amazing when there's awareness of how much we spend on what we look like. Well, even my niece asking my sister, why do you wear makeup and daddy doesn't? She's like, oh, wow. Like, it's so true. Like, she's old enough now. Why do you wear makeup and daddy doesn't?

35:03Vic: It's like, how do you, how? I would, I'd be like, this is on you. Like, I would have no idea how to answer that. Yeah. So basically what's happening here is less people are going on dates because they want to avoid the cost of dating. Which is really sad. And there's a movement to more coffee dates. but then people are like that's you know just a sign of low effort I also think it's just a bit of an understanding of like different circumstances and realizing that you are dating you're not the only person in this guy's or girl's life sorry is your point that I just don't judge I just think don't judge on the first date I know it's like yeah easy for me to sit here in my relationship and say that but like I think it's more about having a conversation on that date or like oh cool what you know what do you're expecting someone on the first date to say how do you feel about paying for it versus not no no just more like getting a bit of a bigger picture of their financial situation by asking about their net worth on the first date no so what do you do for work oh cool like are you in a startup yeah you're getting paid peanuts and therefore you don't have much money right now but you're building something greater or oh cool oh you You work as a lawyer and you have no life and you – sorry, lawyers.

36:19Vic: But, like, you know, and you work yourself – Ragged. Therefore, you should be able to pay. I don't know. Yeah, just have a conversation about communication. What you're saying is don't judge on whether or not someone pays or splits or doesn't pay. Try and get a bit more of an indication on their financial picture rather than assuming if they don't pay for the first date, they're financially inept or they don't have money or they don't like you. it actually might have nothing to do with any of those things. Yeah, or ask them even about their belt. Like, they might think, oh, no, women shouldn't pay for anything.

36:48Vic: And then you're like, whoa, okay, you know, what is that? I will say this is for sure not first date territory as someone that's been single more recently than you. No, but, like, I think, you know, if someone was like, oh, I'll pay because, like, women shouldn't pay for anything. If that, you know, that little comment can create a whole conversation. Anyway, you can get a bit of understanding about someone. Definitely. For example, even I remember actually someone in New Zealand that I went on a few dates with when I was back a couple of years ago. And they said they it was really interesting because we were talking about the idea of woman working after giving birth as in going in to whatever their career was versus the idea of being with the kids all the time.

37:29And I it was really interesting to hear what his take on that was. And if it was the same as mine, because that in itself, it's really a lot of it can be quite connected to money without realizing, you know, like. What is your expectation on me and on what I bring financially and what you bring financially? And what is the, are you super traditional or are you, you know?

37:49Vic: I read this article on the plane and it was, it's like, stop talking about the rise of independent women. We should be talking about the fact that it's, for so long, it's been dependent men. So they're dependent on having someone at home. so it's like so the whole like imbalance is not like yes women are becoming more independent but it's big but the biggest thing is that men have been so dependent on having someone and then again we're talking about very traditional roles here but like have someone at home and they've relied on that person so long so now this person's getting more independent and they're like hang on no no yeah oh my god and that probably makes a lot of sense there's so many stats around how men just cannot be single for very long is because the idea of like cooking, cleaning, washing, like, oh, it's so hard.

38:39How do I empty the dishwasher?

38:41Vic: But there are some really, really great men out there that do a lot. Yeah, we're so man-hatering. Love men. Love men. Not all men, et cetera, et cetera. Love men, love men, love everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:56SpaceX is making a comeback to the Curve Weekly. We haven't spoken about this since Lefto.

39:00Vic: will say yes spacex i mean you said it wrong spacex uh yes it's has it had a real fall from a bit of a um come back down to earth you know holy shit you did she's back she's making the pose oh my god the bum anyway spacex yes it has come back down to earth like literally and it's syrup share price they had a big part of the rocket fall off and like slam into the But yeah, anyway, it's like it hasn't had a good time. But share price wise, it is now trading at$108 a share. Yes. And it IPO'd at$135. So classic case in point of a company that comes out of the gates with a hiss and a roar. IPO does fantastically well.

39:46Vic: And then the stock has fallen 14%. Yeah. And is now well below its IPO price. I'm so happy about this. I feel a bit bad that I'm just absolutely thrilled. Also, the thing with this is it had its first earnings update. So it's first disclosed as a public company and you put out your financials. It actually did well and it bet what people were expecting. But it's spending, so it's CapEx, which is like you're spending on the future. That jumped six times the previous year to$18 billion. Most of that spent on AI. But the key thing also why the stock is weak and now below its IPO price is that there was this big chunk of sellers that were still shareholders of the IPO, but now they're out of this lock -up expiry.

40:36Vic: So they're out of the lock-up so they can sell their shares now. And so it puts a lot of pressure. There's 911 million shares that are now available to sell. So that is a huge, like if I was a buyer and you know that there's that many shares that have just effectively come to fruition to be able to be sold now. It's so not exclusive. It's like, why would I bother? Totally. I've got this big wall of sellers that they might not sell, but that's still massive. And those sellers have done fantastically well at IPO as well. Like, so they're still like making a lot of money if they sell now. So anyway, it's just like when you've got this big overhang, why would I be buying right now?

41:22It's a very good example of supply and demand. You know, if there is so much supply, something is less valuable. Yes. It's like if something is really common and you could find it in every shop, why would you buy it when you see it? Because you know you're going to find a million more of them.

41:36Vic: It's like if all three of us had shares to sell and then Emily, our producer, was the only buyer, she's got the pick of the, you know, I'll be like, take mine for a dollar. And you'd be like, no, no, take mine for 80 cents. No, no, no, I'll take mine for 70. And she's like, okay. I'll take the last one. Yeah, and then I'll go, no, no, no, I'll do 69. You know, like it's just, you're kind of, yeah, so. You're not exactly, it's almost, if you think about property as well, you know, people are like, it's a buyer's market or it's a seller's market. If there's so many people trying to sell their house and no one can ship a house, then it's a buyer's market.

42:07You want more buyers than sellers if you own the stock.

42:11Vic: It's simple sales. Yeah. But this IPO, yeah, I just wanted to give you a quick update. But it's a really, really good reminder about buying into a hyped IPO. And this is exactly why fundamentals matter. When you are buying a share in a company, you need to ask yourself, is it overvalued? Is it going to be making profit? But is it going to grow? Like all of that stuff. Is it going to continually deliver and beat expectations? And like, yeah, I just think this is, the sheer price was hyped. And we're now seeing that unravel. So for all those people like, damn it, I missed out. Don't worry anyone.

42:48Vic: You missed out. Investing is a long-term game. Yeah. Okay. So apparently we've had a message come through on the hotline. It's not a question. It's more of a comment. Vic, just for context, we released an episode this week. Actually, sorry, last week. on Botox and V8. Say it again. Love Botox.

43:09For context, I basically said to Vic, we cannot talk about it. Like it's not a thing. And then I saw you did a whole weekend episode and I wasn't around. And I was like, hey, she's like. Yeah. I just decided needed to be honest. So anyway, there's someone that's left a comment. I actually can't play this. So Emily, do you mind getting it up and maybe just play it? Did I love Botox? No, no. You're being honest. And I think that's what this whole episode was about. Brilliant episode on beauty standards and their financial impact. I am in my mid-40s. I think you nailed the trends, the ebbs and the flows across the decades and why it starts to drop off.

43:44We don't give a shit, but then also we do give a shit. We just don't have as much money to spend because we have children and mortgages and all that sort of stuff that goes with it. I too have fallen victim to the tension between wanting to be what kind of is in my head as a good feminist and also getting Botox. But I used to work in recruitment. We would say just have less than 10 years on your CV in that case. And then I once had a man tell me that it was really hard for women in the workplace beyond 46. Well, here I am and I'm thriving at 46. So I love the integrity of this episode. Well done.

44:22So good. So good. so if you haven't listened definitely go back we called it can women afford to not botox there's been so many comments that have come in there's also a sub stack that i wrote which is kind of a bit different to what we spoke about in the podcast but we'll link both of them in the show notes and thank you for everyone that's reached out someone i read a message this morning before coming in and she said i might actually read it it was really sweet hey i just wanted to send a message to say sophie i've just read the botox article and i loved it thank you so much for how honest you've been.

44:50I'm 34. I've never had it, but I feel like it's constantly discussed and I'm feeling a little bit behind by having not done it. But also I don't really want to, although I feel like I should. It reminds me of the expectation to shave your legs when you just start high school. Anyway, I loved the article. Love how honest you've been with so much of your life. I imagine it's jolly difficult to do with such a big audience now, but it's really appreciated. Hope you're well and congrats both on the fund. But I actually was thinking about that. It is harder to put stuff out like that now. I think in the beginning when we first started, I didn't really mind being quite honest about stuff like that or writing things that were quite personal

45:23Vic: it is like shaving your legs though yeah i remember when i started shaving when mom was like lost and she's like you're gonna have to now do that for you know for the rest of your life so dramatic no they're not it'll just grow back once i know anyway thank you everyone for listening to the podcast thank you so much for all of the amazing feedback that's come in with the fund if you have any questions that you want us to answer whether it's like actually questions about money or investing, you can either comment where you're listening to this podcast. You can send us an email or a DM on Instagram.

45:52But have a great week and we will see you on Monday. See you. Thank you so much for listening to The Curve Weekly. Make sure you hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening so you're always up to date with the latest finance and investing news. And feel free to leave a comment to let us know what you thought about this episode because we would love your feedback. We've got new Curve Weekly episodes for you to listen to every Monday, but until then, listen to Erasing the Curve. These are our in-depth podcast episodes where we chat about all things money.

46:17Vic: We're also around all week on socials if you're hungry for more Curve content and all the links are in this podcast show notes. We hope you have a great week and we'll catch you for the next episode of The Curve Weekly on Monday.

46:34Okay quickly, The Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing but we are not financial advisors.

46:40Vic: Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.