The investing guide I wish I had in my 20s

0:00Sophie Hallwright: Do you seek adventure and want to serve your country? The Central Intelligence Agency's Directorate of Operations is hiring. As a member of our team, you'll work on high-impact operations around the world, safeguarding our nation and making a difference. We're looking for individuals with a can-do attitude and a collaborative mindset. If you are looking for a challenging and rewarding role, explore available opportunities and apply online at cia.gov slash careers. Hi, I'm Sophie. I'm one of the founders of The Curve. And I went from being in 50k of debt, not understanding investing, knowing how to budget, save.

0:40Sophie Hallwright: I was a total financial disaster. Now I have two investment properties, over 100k in the stock market, and I'm in no debt. But I did not always used to be this good with money and investing. And it all started from the very beginning of this podcast. We're currently on a podcast break. So we're having two weeks off new episodes and we wanted to do some throwbacks to the vintage OG episodes that were released originally five years ago when I knew nothing about investing. If you don't need to go back to these throwback episodes, enjoy two weeks without us in your ears. But if you know anyone who's felt left out of the conversation when it comes to money, investing, or just really don't know where to start, please send them this podcast.

1:23Sophie Hallwright: We will be back for regular programming at the start of October. Welcome to the OG Curve episodes. So we recorded these, no joke, six years ago. This was at a time when I was financially 100 % illiterate. And I'm actually, I'm just not exaggerating when I say that. Anyone who's listened from the beginning of the curve will know I didn't understand inflation. I had no investments. I had no retirement funds. I had no idea how to budget, save, invest. And money was just this really terrifying part of my life that caused a lot of low-level anxiety. I listened to the questions that I ask and I almost want to go and hug little Sophie.

2:12Sophie Hallwright: But as much as I would like to sweep these episodes under the rug, because for me it's almost like wow I can't believe I knew so little that is the whole point of the curve that's why we started this podcast it's why the whole business exists is that there's so many people like me who never got any financial education when it comes to how to budget save invest and grow your wealth so that one day you're not hopefully working in exchange for your time. The idea of investing is that you build up a portfolio that hopefully is big enough that you can just, if you don't want to work, you can be work optional.

2:50Sophie Hallwright: So these are our OG vintage first episodes that we ever put out. We have decided not to do the intro to the curve because that was quite literally the first one we ever put out. Vic and I were like, oh my god, we're not pretenders. How are we doing this? But this is the second episode we ever released. It is the fundamental basics when it comes to finance and investing. So we discuss everything from what a return actually means. You'll hear us a lot in the podcast saying, you know, what was the return or what's the annual return or the returns are not very good. Returns is one of those words that's sort of thrown around by a lot of finance speak.

3:34Sophie Hallwright: and understanding really what that means is super, super important. So we talk about what does a return mean for the different types of asset classes? So what is the return you're getting on an investment? What is the money that you are earning depending on what you've invested in? This might be a really nice refresher. If you've listened to the podcast for a while, going back to these beginning episodes might actually be a really great thing to just, yeah, go back to the drawing board. remember the fundamentals of investing and maybe not maybe these episodes actually aren't for you but if you know about investing or you feel quite confident in these these basics I would highly encourage you to send these episodes as they come out to any of your friends or family or people you know because they can start again they can start from these beginning episodes and work their way up so that the curve weekly makes sense to them because we're very aware there's a lot of you who have listened from the beginning, which we're just so grateful for.

4:33Sophie Hallwright: But it's meant that there's probably a lot of people who don't know where or how to enter the conversation. So in this episode, we're going to cover volatility, which I remember when we first started the podcast, Vic would use that word a lot. And it felt like a complicated, confusing word that she was using. And I just, I don't know, for some reason, I found it hard for this concept to land. But yeah, we talk in this episode about volatility and how that is almost the definition of risk that a lot of finance people use. It's essentially understanding that different types of investments have different levels of volatility.

5:10Sophie Hallwright: So volatility just meaning how much do they go up and down and up and down? Because if you look at a graph of the stock market, you'll see that if you just even look at the S &P 500, for example, which if you don't know what that means, don't stress. It's the top 500 companies in America. So if you were to look at a graph of those 500 companies, you would see, say you looked at like a 12 month period, it going up and down and up and down. And there's all these little squiggles kind of looks like, you know, if you're like on a light detector and it goes up and down, depending if someone's lying, it kind of looks like that.

5:45Sophie Hallwright: So different assets go up and down in varying degrees. Some of them are way more volatile than others and that's really what we talk about in this episode understanding the different levels of volatility and how you look at that and then decide what's right for you because for some people they're really comfortable investing in volatile risky and I don't know if you're watching this or just listening but I'm doing like in quotation marks volatile or risky investments for me I'm very comfortable with very volatile investments because I understand the idea that high volatility or high risk can also mean high reward but if this is a new concept to you that might not have landed just yet and so this episode will hopefully help that make sense and just a premise I haven't given away the entire concept of this episode I think that when I reflect on these early episodes and what helped me really learn, you know if you think about almost non-fiction books and if you were to read a 15-minute blurb on say Atomic Habits, let's say you were reading a blurb and it just said Habits Stack, do X, Y, Z, you would probably think I don't need to read this whole book, I get the concept but you read the book because the more that you hear the same things repeated the more that the concepts land and I really found that to be true when it came to investing.

7:11Sophie Hallwright: So highly recommend listening to this. Even if you understand volatility, it might be really helpful to just go back to the drawing board because there's a lot of people panicking at the moment that we're about to have a big stock market crash and that there's a big AI bubble coming. Might be a really good idea to just revisit and reset the idea of risk, why you're investing, why you're investing in particular asset classes, and ultimately why risk isn't scary. If you are young and fun, and when I say young and fun, I mean honestly any age, but if you've got at least five years to put money away and invest, that is time.

7:48Sophie Hallwright: That's time to see volatility go up and down and sideways and you don't need to worry about it. So have a listen. Hopefully this is a really good reset or introduction to what risk means when it comes to investing. It's really cute to re-listen to some of these episodes and just be reminded of how fun and silly investing can be and how easy it is to learn this stuff. So if you're new here, welcome. I hope you really enjoy these beginning episodes. If you're not new here, we will be back in a couple of weeks. Enjoy this vintage throwback. Hope you have a great week. Here's the episode.

8:29Sophie Hallwright: Now we've got quite a lot of content to cover today, don't we Vic? We do. I've actually bought my notepad because I'm prepared to take notes because otherwise I forget important information. Good idea. Well, the great thing about this podcast is that you can rewind.

8:42Victoria Harris: This is true.

8:43Sophie Hallwright: Technology. Wow.

8:45Victoria Harris: Yeah. So today we're going to talk a bit about risk and return, compound interest and why Albert Einstein says that compound interest is the sixth wonder of the world. Can I just say on that, I'm pretty sure there are six wonders of the world. I know.

8:59Sophie Hallwright: Great quote. though.

9:00Victoria Harris: We're going to talk about different asset classes and a bit about diversification and why it's so important.

9:06Sophie Hallwright: So firstly, are we starting with risk and return? Yeah. Can I take a stab in the dark here? Go for it. Is it basically the bigger risk, you know, when people are like, higher risk, higher reward?

9:16Victoria Harris: Exactly. Yeah. Taking a step back. So investing is all about you're trying to maximise your return and minimise your risk. So you're right. Yeah, You're trying to maximize what you can earn from your investment and minimize what you can lose. Similar to most things in life, a doctor, for example, or a surgeon is compensated more for the level of risk that he's taking because he's operating on you. So his job's high risk. So he's compensated or his return, which is his salary, is higher. Reflecting that. It's like an atheist, right? Because their job is like the most dangerous, right? And obviously skill comes into it and all that.

9:54Victoria Harris: But like this is a shop assistant who's selling you clothing. Very little risk involved in that unless you're a shopaholic.

10:02Sophie Hallwright: Nothing wrong with being a shop assistant. But it's essentially like what you're saying is you're paid for the fact that you're really sticking your neck out.

10:09Victoria Harris: Yeah. Yeah. And the same is with investing. So if you're taking a lot of risk investing in something that's really risky, you should really be compensated for that level of risk. And when I talk about compensated, I'm talking about the return of that investment. So what you get back is going to be higher if it's a riskier and well thought out investment. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And the return is just the kind of the change in the price of the assets effectively. So, for example, if you're investing in property and you buy the property for God, it's like if you're in Auckland, it's like a million dollars.

10:43Victoria Harris: Five million. And then you sell it in 12 months time. That asset, that property has increased by 10 percent. then that's your return. Say you sell the asset in 12 months time, the difference that you make is kind of your return. And there's also other parts that make up the return as well. Like you can get rental income if you invest in property, which we'll get into a bit into later.

11:06Sophie Hallwright: Can I ask a question on that? So is it then loss if, for example, if an asset depreciates or it's a stock or it's a house that then depreciates in value, is that technically called a loss?

11:18Victoria Harris: Yes. So your return can be positive or negative. If the price increases from when you first bought it, then your return will be positive. If it decreases, your return will be negative. So you really want to look at when you're looking at return, if someone comes up to you, they're like, oh, my God, I just made 100 % in two days on my stock that I bought. You're like, cool. Yeah, but what is the risk involved in that? Like, that's pure luck, in my opinion. That's not skill. You should really be kind of taking a long term view when you're looking in terms of risk and return.

11:49Sophie Hallwright: Okay, so how would I know if something is risky or not risky? Great question, Soph.

11:55Victoria Harris: So the risk is effectively just the volatility of the asset. And when I talk about asset, that can confuse some people. What is an asset? Assets just either property, shares, cash or bonds. There's lots of different types of assets, but those are the main four. So the risk is just the volatility of the asset, the movement. And when I say volatility, I mean the movement. So it's the movement up and down. And it's the uncertainty kind of of how that asset will move in the future.

12:25Sophie Hallwright: So, for example, with Bitcoin, obviously, I mean, I know nothing about Bitcoin, but that to me sounds like a really risky versus something like a supermarket that you're investing in.

12:35Victoria Harris: Exactly. And you can see that in the price of Bitcoin. The price of that shoots up and it shoots down and then, you know, it's kind of all over the show. And right now it's super, super high. And so those movements is what's called volatility. And so that means that that's a really risky asset class or an investment.

12:53Sophie Hallwright: Because that's recently gone up by like, am I right, thinking 3 ,000 % or something crazy?

12:57Victoria Harris: So in my opinion, I don't think that's sustainable. Something going up that much is a really risky asset. And I would much prefer to invest in something that generates kind of 10 % return per annum. Steady growth. Yeah. And that's just my risk appetite. Some people would love to invest in Bitcoin and a thrill and they don't mind kind of potentially losing all their money. Because that's what you've got to consider when you're investing in anything really is that you can lose, you know, 100 % of your investment.

13:24Sophie Hallwright: That's terrifying. I know that we're talking about best case scenario here, but that is the reality, right? You could invest in something that's so high risk and you lose all your money.

13:33Victoria Harris: And you only hear stories. You only hear good stories. Nobody goes around tooting their own trumpet about all the money that they've lost. It's so true. And so you kind of get this warped perception that investing in property or investing in shares is really good and you can only make money. It's like, well, no, you can very easily lose money as well. But I guess coming back to that, like Bitcoin going up 3000%, like on the flip side of that, what's a low risk investment then?

13:57Sophie Hallwright: I was going to say, because all my money has sat in a long term deposit in the bank forever. And I'm guessing that's the worst or like the lowest return you could get on anything, right?

14:07Victoria Harris: Yeah, well, totally, especially where interest rates are at the moment. Like term deposits, they're generating 1 % at the moment, which is super low, especially for someone your age who can take a bit more risk because you've got such a longer time horizon. There's no kids and no responsibility. Yeah, you've got no dependents. Exactly. I guess with term deposits, they're low risk because they're held for a fixed period. They're held by a reputable kind of financial institution or a bank. and they're usually kind of backed by the government as well, some of them. So it means it's unexciting and boring, but it's a safe bet.

14:41Victoria Harris: But you're not going to lose all your money like you could in a stock. Exactly. But the return reflects that. That's why you're only getting kind of 1 % return-ish is because the likelihood of you losing your money is far lower than investing in shares. So if we're kind of comparing the two, term deposits got a 1 % return, but very, very low risk of you losing your money. Shares, you could be getting, gosh, anything. Let's say 20 % return. But that 20 % could also be negative 10%. So you're taking that extra risk. Netting out over time, your overall return for investing in shares, say if you picked a 10-year period, would be overall higher.

15:21Sophie Hallwright: Significantly higher. Yes. Yeah. Just out of interest, has the banks ever just had a total meltdown and people have lost their money in a term deposit? Can you actually lose in that or is it impossible?

15:31Victoria Harris: It kind of happened in the GFC. Like there was a lot of banks that got kind of... Hey, no abbreviations in this podcast. Global financial crisis. That was what happened in the global financial crisis was many people had money with the banks and then the banks did all this kind of crazy lending of your savings effectively, particularly in the US, the United States. Appreciate it. And that led to them, you know, getting into financial trouble and therefore having to get bailed out by the government. You know, so there is, if you're getting a return, there's still an element of risk, but much, much, much lower.

16:10Victoria Harris: Okay. Especially when you're getting 1%, which is pretty measly. And then also if you look within the asset class of shares, if you looked within that class, like there's companies that are way more risky than others. A supermarket, for example, people are going to continue to shop at a supermarket. Everyone needs toilet paper, especially in COVID. Exactly. It's a staple. It's a necessity. Versus the likes of kind of like a biotech company where the uncertainty of a drug becoming successful, you know, we have no insight into that. And, you know, even the company itself might not. So investing in like a biotech company, for example, the uncertainty around that is high, but the payoff could be significant.

16:51Victoria Harris: The return you get if that drug is successful could be significant.

16:56Sophie Hallwright: Imagine if you invested in the company that came up with the COVID vaccine.

17:01Victoria Harris: Yeah. Versus a supermarket where you're probably just going to, you know, your returns are going to chug along. You're probably going to get maybe 5 % return depending on which supermarket. But there's this uncertainty. So therefore, your return is lower because your risk is lower. So it completely depends on what you invest in. But yeah, high return means high risk.

17:21Sophie Hallwright: I feel like I've come up with a really good example, in case people are still not sure what you're talking about. If you go to the horse racing, which I hope not that many people do anymore, but say you bet on horses and you're betting on like Misty Star, who's won 10 years in a row, or you bet on, I don't know, Floppy Joe, who's never won a race in his life. If Floppy Joe wins, Floppy Joe, what a name, but say he wins and there's probably very few people who would have betted on him, right? So then if he actually wins, there's way more pool of money to share and therefore it's going to be a higher reward, right?

17:53Sophie Hallwright: Rather than just going for the safe option.

17:55Victoria Harris: Your payoff or the odds of Sloppy Joe winning. I should have thought of something better. Yeah, it's not on people's radar. They're not thinking about it. Therefore, when he does win, the return's way greater rather than everyone kind of piling into Misty Star. Something easy.

18:12Sophie Hallwright: Misty Star. I'm glad you remembered their names. Yeah, I know. Well done. Talk to me about the whole risk appetite scenario. So how would I even know how much risk I'm comfortable taking?

18:22Victoria Harris: Well, it's totally dependent on your personal situation. But if we're making generalizations here, I would say if you're younger and you've got a longer investing time horizon, or if you've got less dependents, so no kids, you've got no mortgage, you know, you've got a bit more financial flexibility, then you can take a bit more risk, you know, maybe put a bit of money in that biotech company and a bit into the supermarket as well. or, you know, just kind of... I mean, sloppy joe. And to put some more... That's gambling. But hey, we're not condoning gambling. No, no, no. But no, it's kind of...

18:56Sophie Hallwright: Especially not horse racing.

18:57Victoria Harris: It's, you can take a bit more risk because you can, you've got a longer time horizon, which means you can weather the ups and downs. Say granny, she has a 12-month time horizon and she... Oh my God, poor granny. That makes me sad. She needs the money in 12 months. She doesn't want to take a huge bet because come 12 months time, her investment that she made in the stock market or in a company could be down 20%. She's just lost 20 % of her savings. Whereas someone like us who are a bit younger than granny, we may not need that money in 12 months. So therefore, say we need it in 10 years, then that investment over 10 years will be a lot higher than it is now, but it might've had years of ups and downs.

19:35Victoria Harris: So what I'm saying is the average return over that 10-year period would be a lot higher than, say, a term deposit. But because granny doesn't have that time available to her, she needs to put her money in the term deposit.

19:46Sophie Hallwright: So she would have a low risk appetite. With someone like me with zero kids, no responsibility, I really could say, look, I don't need that$20 ,000 or$500 or whatever it is. I'm happy to part with that for X amount of time. And then you can, as you say, like weather the storms to see it go up and down, up and down until it's at a point where you're like, amazing, I've made some money here.

20:06Victoria Harris: It might be up$20 ,000, down$10 ,000, then up$10 ,000, then down$5 ,000, and then up$40 ,000. But overall, this is why we talk about averages because lots can happen in a year and you need to take a long term view when you're investing.

20:18Sophie Hallwright: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense to me. So it's essentially looking at your financial and your personal situation and figuring out how much money you're going to need in the next, say, five, ten years or whatever you're comfortable with.

20:29Victoria Harris: And when I talk about short term, I mean short term for me would be like sub two years. Sorry, what does sub mean? Sorry. Short term for me would be like below two years, like anything between now and two years time. I would say kind of medium term would be like five years and long term anything above 10. I mean, yeah, you need to kind of take a five year plus view, in my opinion, when you're considering an investment. And also don't invest outside your means. So don't, when you get your paycheck, don't invest the whole thing if that's all you've got to live on. Because with any investment, there's risk.

21:03Victoria Harris: You can lose 100%. So you don't want to be like living on the bones of your ass because you've lost, you've put all your money into the market and you've lost it all. Also, don't go borrow money to invest in the stock market. There's just... That must be 101 investing, right? Yeah. I mean, the hard out experts do it, but they know what they're doing and they've got risks and controls in place. But, you know, if you're an everyday investor, don't go remortgage your house to invest in the share market. because like I keep saying, you can easily lose 100 % and then you're left with more debt and you're in a worse position.

21:38Victoria Harris: So yeah, I would say invest a little bit here and there and maybe each paycheck you invest more and more until you kind of build the confidence and learn along the way.

21:47Sophie Hallwright: So something you mentioned, which I think probably ties into the compound interest thing, is basically the longer that something's in there, the more you're earning, right? So is that essentially compound interest? Good segue. Is it? Oh, my God. This is so well planned. So, yeah, compound interest.

22:07Victoria Harris: So I don't want to lose you all before. Because it sounds complicated, I must say. Yeah, and it can be a bit of a dreary topic. So we'll try and make it interesting. But compound interest, it's the fundamentals of investing and the fundamentals of finance. So if I was to ask you, Soph, would you prefer a dollar today or a dollar in 12 months? What would you say and why? Probably a dollar today because I don't want to buy a$1 lolly mix.

22:31Sophie Hallwright: No, but also like why would I choose to wait for a dollar if I can just have it now? Exactly.

22:36Victoria Harris: Spoken like a true millennial. Give it to me now. No, but that's the right answer. Like if I could give you a dollar now, you can go away, you can invest that. So then a dollar a year from now is actually worth more. So say you take that dollar, you invest it, you get a 10 % return. then at the end of the year your dollar is now worth$1.10 so you can go buy$1.10 worth of lollies. An extra snake like me. Yeah exactly so we're at the end of next year you've got$1.10 now you're earning 10 % on that$1.10 rather than the dollar so that's kind of compound interest is interest on interest on interest so you're starting off a higher base when you come into the next year of investing.

23:20Sophie Hallwright: So the percentage essentially of what you'll earn your own year is constantly growing as well, assuming you've made a good investment.

23:25Victoria Harris: The percentage is the same, just for example's sake, but the absolute dollar amount of that percentage, if that makes sense, is higher.

23:35Sophie Hallwright: So say - Well, 10 % of 110 is going to be more than 10 % of a dollar. Exactly.

23:40Victoria Harris: Yeah. So it's$1.21. So right now we've got a dollar, end of the year, we'll have$1.10, end of the next year, we'll have$1.21. And so you can see how your savings just kind of grow exponentially because every year you're starting with a higher base. Whereas if you just keep taking that money out every year and starting with a dollar, that's not compound interest. You're starting from scratch. That's what we call simple interest. It's just interest on the same amount, the same beginning amount every year. And that's simple interest. That's simple interest. So compound interest is just interest on interest on interest.

24:12Victoria Harris: That's why everyone says invest for the long term, because the longer you leave it in there, the more rapidly your savings or your investment will grow.

24:21Sophie Hallwright: Am I right in thinking, though, rapidly is probably not the way to think about it? Because to me, compound interest sounds it sounds it's like the long term gain. Right. It's what you were talking about before. It's like, OK, I'm happy to get rid of five grand for now. I won't touch that for 10 years. So the compound interest over that time will grow. Right. It's it's just knowing that compound interest is the long term.

24:42Victoria Harris: Yes. Yeah. And you need to leave it and allow it time to compound is kind of the understanding. Like if we use an example, so say you had$10 ,000 and you invested that at 10 % per year for 10 years. So 10, 10, 10. What is 10 % of that? A thousand? A thousand dollars. At the end of that 10 year period, you'd have$27 ,000. If we just go back to the simple interest example, so just your basic kind of interest, you would have earned 10 % on that$10 ,000, which is$11 ,000. So you're earning an extra$16 ,000 in compound interest versus simple interest, if that makes sense. It's crazy. It's just like, if you looked at it on a graph, it would be like a hockey stick.

25:29Victoria Harris: It would look like that's what your investment would look like. I guess the big caveat is finding investment. Sorry, hockey stick.

25:35Sophie Hallwright: Do you mean the bottom of it, how it flips out?

25:37Victoria Harris: No, no, sorry, the top. Okay. Got to be very specific. I just mean that it's maybe, it's like the side of a volcano. Okay. It's all quite steep. Yes, very steep. Okay. But the caveat is it depends on you getting that 10 % return per annum. And that's an average. So it can also work in the reverse.

25:57Sophie Hallwright: Yeah. Well, obviously we're thinking about good examples here. Yeah. Which is positive. Yeah, we're going to start positive. Yeah. But it works both ways with everything you're explaining, right?

26:05Victoria Harris: Exactly. But compound interest, if there's one thing you can take away, is you need to keep it in there for the long term. The longer you leave it in, the better. I just want to touch on that 10 % return. With you, for example, your money's in a term deposit. It's generating 1%. The compound interest on a 1 % investment is going to be so much lower than a 10 % return. That's why you hear people harping on about, Make sure your KiwiSaver is generating a good return or you're with a good fund manager because savings compounding at 1 % versus savings compounding at 10 % in 10 years time is going to be such a significant difference.

26:44Victoria Harris: So if you can make one small adjustment and get even a 1 % or 2 % better return than you're getting over the long term, it's going to be phenomenal in terms of your savings, in terms of your retirement, in terms of your wealth creation. So it's really important to make sure, you know, just to make sure that you're getting the greatest return you want for your risk appetite. Okay. If that makes sense.

27:06Sophie Hallwright: Yeah.

27:07Victoria Harris: Yeah.

27:08Sophie Hallwright: Risk return. It's definitely a massive topic, I think.

27:10Victoria Harris: It's one that we could talk about forever. Totally. So, yeah, with compound interest, really important. It's about the length of time and the return that you're getting. Those two things are so important and can make a huge, huge, huge difference. This is good. Yeah.

27:23Sophie Hallwright: It's kind of like, you know, the snail analogy when everyone's like, rather than coming quick off the block. It's like the tortoise in the hair. That's what I, it's not a snail. It's a tortoise, you're so right.

27:32Victoria Harris: The tortoise in the hair, yeah. You want to be with the tortoise, but not a really slow tortoise. Maybe like a kind of a medium fast tortoise. Okay, love that.

27:41Sophie Hallwright: Next time, Vic, can we go into asset classes? It's something that I know I hear you talk about a bit and I don't fully understand. So I'd love to kind of break that down fully.

27:50Victoria Harris: Yeah, I think that's a really good idea. Yeah, there's kind of four main asset classes. And yeah, I think it's really important to dig into each of those and why there's four and why they're so special. Pros, cons, et cetera. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. Awesome. Okay, great. Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve. These conversations are designed to teach you everything you need to know to be better with your money, from saving to investing to talking with your friends about your salaries, all of that stuff.

28:14Sophie Hallwright: And if you like what you heard, we would love if you could please hit subscribe wherever you're listening and leave a comment. Let us know what you thought about the episode.

28:20Victoria Harris: And it only takes one second and it would really make our week, our month, our year.

28:25Sophie Hallwright: Yeah. Yeah.

28:26Victoria Harris: So please do it. Okay. Love you. Bye.

28:31Sophie Hallwright: Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors.

28:37Victoria Harris: Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

28:46Sophie Hallwright: and always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.

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