The Weekly: Why Netflix’s shares fell & EssilorLuxottica's best day since 2008

0:01Vic: Coming up in today's episode, it is reporting season, which means it is a very exciting but stressful time for me as lots and lots of companies are reporting their financial results. First up, we cover Netflix. So it announced a$4 billion growth in terms of profits, but the stock market is not happy. It did not do well. The share price has fallen, so we talk about what that means. We also discussed Isilor Luxotica, which is a frames and lens company, one of the biggest in the world. And you probably actually have been to one of their stores, Sunglass Heart OPSM, or own some of their frames. They make frames for some of the top luxury names in the world, as well as they own Raybrand and Oakley.

0:42Vic: So its share price jumped 15%, which is the biggest share price movement since 2008. And we dig into why. This is The Curve Weekly, where we read the finance news so that you don't have to. I'm Vic Harris, a finance professional who's made a career making money for other people. And I'm Sophie Hallwright, ex-TV and radio producer who was sick and tired of not understanding the economy, how to invest or build my wealth, so we started this podcast. But before we dive into the headlines, here's a word from today's sponsor. This episode of The Curve Weekly is made possible by Pathfinder's KiwiSaver Plan, helping you invest alongside your values.

1:14If you've got a question about anything to do with investing while trying to be a good person, submit it via the ethical hotline via the link in the podcast show notes. Pathfinder Asset Limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder Kiwi Saver plan. A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi. I'm so excited. I'm such a freak. I feel like I'm such a freak. I'm turning into a nerd. I can't wait to talk about particularly Netflix. I don't know why, but I feel like it's juicy.

1:41Vic: Yes, it's my favorite time of the year. It really is. It feels like Christmas, but it's only October. It's great. It's great. It's reporting season. man. So basically for anyone that's not watching this podcast, Vic looks like someone's delivered her Christmas stocking and she's about to open all the presents. So every October, in fact, it happens four times a year. The companies that are listed in public come out with their results. It's like their report card and there's lots of movements that happen in the stock market around this time because people are making decisions based on the report cards.

2:16And one of them that I am just absolutely fizzed to talk about is Netflix because it's not it's not done

2:25Vic: very well I love that you're like you know this is such an exciting time for because I'm actually excited too it's a bloody stressful time let's put it that it's like yes getting in early and there's like oh okay cool that's done that that's up that that's okay that there's three four companies yep cool it's like you know it's like it's quite full-on but we're we're fine we're so fine we're like it's fine it's totally fine just four coffees deep it's absolutely fine no it is exciting but it is a lot of a lot of information you're you're looking at companies in the portfolio you're looking at competitors what does that tell you about you know possibly companies that you own uh is there companies you've been watching that are now uh you know really doing really well or doing badly and you want to buy them because they're cheap.

3:14Vic: Like, honestly, it's like, yeah, it's pretty full on. But it is exciting. So the headline here, and I've seen a few headlines. Have I read the articles? No. But they're quite dramatic. And I'll explain why I'm excited about it in a second. It doesn't sound like the stock market. Dramatic. Yes, so true. It's its own Netflix series. I would love at some stage, not now, but I'd love to name the stock market some kind of dramatic. Sally. Yeah, like we'd give her a name. We'd give her a personality. It's got to be Mary. Come on. You're right. It's got to be Mary. That's actually fair. Market Mary. Market Mary.

3:51Mary the market. From the OG podcast days, Vic was less confident on a mic, and every time it came to giving an example, she had to think of a name, and it was kind of like, do you remember that game where you would ask people to count to six, and they would be like, what's two plus two plus two? What's one plus one? What's three plus three? No. And then, oh, you haven't. Oh, my God. Actually, let's play it. Okay, wait. Take your headphones out for a second so I can tell the audience the secret word. Because you can't hear this. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me? She can't hear me.

4:20Okay. The secret word is carrot. So if she says carrot, my tricks worked. Okay. You can put them back in. This is so fun. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What's three plus three? Six. What's one plus one plus one plus one plus one?

4:37Vic: Five. Five. No, it's one plus one plus one plus one plus one plus one. Six. What's two plus two plus two? Six. What's five plus one? Six. What's sucks? Sucks. What's three plus three? Six. Okay, say a vegetable, any vegetable. Carrot. Yes!

5:07Why? I can't even remember why we're playing it now. What was the point to my story?

5:14Vic: Did you tell the audience I was going to say carrot? Yeah. How did you not? Oh, my God. That's so weird. So I can't remember how this came up, though. What were we talking about before this? We had an important point. When you can't think, like, it's front of mind. We're talking everything that I, every example was Mary. Right. So basically, yeah. So when Vic would try and think of a name, it was like she would glitch and the only thing she could think about was Mary. or when you call the doctor and they're like, I don't know, you're saying something and then it's like, you know, infiniculus. Oh, the phonetical fucking alphabet.

5:47Vic: It's like P4 and it's like penis, penis, penis, penis. And I'm like, I'm like, think of another word with P, think of another word with P. And then you're just like, P4 petunia. I don't know, it's like so hard. It's just like in your face. I do not get the penis P. that's so funny so anyway back to Netflix that's so I'm really intrigued the psychology of why carrot is is it because it's sex no but then you'd be like cucumber no no no I honestly don't know but it works every single time every time I'm gonna try it it's really highbrow content this is what Soph brings to the podcast compared to what I bring oh my gosh so funny but yes the Netflix result came out last week and this is a company that we own in the fund.

6:38Vic: And you're right, it hasn't done very well. And we've kind of been nibbling away in terms of buying. And it came out with a result that personally I don't think is that bad. But, you know, news headlines, they love to make people buy newspapers. So they're being dramatic. And the share price fell on the day of the result, but then it's now up more than what it fell. So people do tend to react. They're like, oh my gosh, this number is not what it's supposed to be. I'm going to sell. And then once they actually dig into the commentary or actually take a breather, go away, have a coffee, come back and actually read in detail, they realize, okay, it's actually, there's some green shoots here.

7:21Vic: So anyway, the key thing with Netflix is that it is getting competitive. And with YouTube, it used to be kind of Disney and Netflix, kind of battling it out. and now YouTube, it's YouTube and Netflix. And we own both. We own Netflix and Google. So I'm like, I don't really care who wins. Yeah, it's just funny because a lot of people, a lot of the headlines are very dramatic. I love the one, has Netflix lost the plot? It's like, lol. Yeah, this one was like, oh, here we go. Netflix is really chilling. Like, all of that is quite funny. Netflix is$300 billion problem. Oh, I know. So dramatic. So, so, so dramatic.

8:02Because a lot of people have been fired, like 6 % of staff. So that was all of the headlines that I saw. Because you obviously see people firing staff and you think it's shrinking, it's doing badly, it's having to lay people off because it can't afford to pay people.

8:14Vic: Yeah, and I think historically it was. It was very much like, oh gosh, there's a big restructure. Oh gosh, internally what's going on? They're cutting costs because revenue's not coming. But now you're actually seeing it because of AI. You know, we're like, actually, we don't actually need these people. or it can, yes, it's not a good sign, but it can also be. It's almost the start of the way up. It's like a refresh. It's a business refresh. Margins can improve because you don't have this like intense cost base. And as long as you're, yeah, as long as you're doing it in the right way. But I think also one of the key people that left was the head of content and he'd been there for like 20 years.

8:54Vic: So that was also a bit of a red flag. People were like, hang on a second, what is going on? God, you wouldn't want the head of content to be leaving, would you? No, but like sometimes some fresh blood. Yeah, 20 years is a long time. Yeah. And if you think of Netflix, it's evolved so, so much that sometimes you do just need some fresh blood. And, you know, they're moving into podcasts, games, live TV, you know, from where they were. I'm actually reading the book at the moment about the start of Netflix. So fascinating. One of the things I really wanted to bring up, because your whole approach to this is I actually don't think it's that bad.

9:28The key thing is that the revenue actually grew. Like it's up 12 % on last year. They're still making$13 billion in revenue. It's outrageous. Like what? Why on earth has the share price gone down?

9:43Vic: So with investing, you're always thinking about the future. Like, yes, you take into account, you know, when financial results come out, the current situation, but that's the last three months. People want to know what does the future look like? And so, yes, they grew 12%, but that is, their growth is slowing. And it has slowed from, you know, north of 20 % a year down to kind of 12%. But you're also, it's the law of large numbers, right? So when you're smaller, it's much easier to grow quicker and that therefore higher percentage growth rates than it is when you're generating$13 billion a quarter.

10:20Vic: To keep doing that quarter and quarter, of course your growth is going to slow. But then that just means that, getting a bit technical here, but the multiple that people pay for that revenue is going to be a bit lower. But that's the thing. When Netflix share price has fallen so much, people have already factored in they're slowing growth rates. So the fact that they came in at what the market expected at 12 % return per year of revenue growth, that's great, in my opinion. YouTube is growing faster, but Netflix is still growing and it's still only scratched this tiny, tiny surface of advertising.

10:52Vic: Whereas YouTube is free and it solely relies on advertising. Netflix is a subscription model and they're now introducing advertising. So you have completely different models. And yeah, it's just, I just think we're going to see a world where there is these two large players and for different formats, right? Like Netflix. I think Prime Video, Amazon, you know, could be a strong competitor. But I just think Netflix is spending so much on content. I can't remember the figure, but it's like 20 billion. It's spending$20 billion on content. Like, how you're a smaller player. I think they should be doing that.

11:38Vic: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Their content, I get a bit bored, you know. Like, I think it is really good that they're spending a lot of money. They need to. Yeah. And diversifying, right, into podcast games, live TV. One of the more negative stats or results that have come out is that the average viewing per subscriber fell quite significantly. And is this also, I guess, just back to competition? People are hopping around. They want to see what they want to see. It's not so much that there's anything wrong with the product. It's just that there's so much choice now that people hop around, whereas back in the day we were Netflix mainly.

12:17and then you'd occasionally hop on Apple TV or Amazon to watch Tell Me Lies or one thing and then you'd be back to Netflix whereas now it's not so much.

12:26Vic: Yeah and look that's versus 2023 like of course it had a lot more of a stronger position back then but it was also people were paying far far less and the fact that they have been able to increase the amount people are paying even though the hours that you watch has fallen, like that's kind of, you know, the margin that you're getting on that is great. Like it's, they have such a sticky customer base that right now I don't even notice. If they put up my Netflix by a dollar, a pound, I probably wouldn't even notice. And yes, some people would, and there's always going to be some people that churn, but even I might churn for a month and then they'd put some good content back on and then I'd rejoin.

13:11Vic: So I just think when you've got this huge flywheel you know you can spend more on content therefore you can attract more subscribers and yeah I do think we're in a world where we are going to be hopping around but I do think it'll be the survival of the biggest because you have the biggest budget but it's interesting that they're cutting a lot of the stuff that they were doing kind of as experiments or like really pulling back because I remember when we first started talking about the fact they were doing games and live streaming and we're like wow they're so creative they're really branching out but the fact they're doubling down on shows and films and kind of pulling back a bit on games is quite interesting you know when you make a big bet um people get excited the share price goes up and then it doesn't really pay off and now they're focusing back on what they're really good at yeah but i mean margins have still remained so strong and that's kind of yeah if they'd invested a lot in games for example and spent a lot of money and impacted much that's when you'd be concerned but you've got to try these things right you've got to try them um and with the beauty of Netflix, you can try them because it's part of a bigger beast, not hugely impact your margins or your revenue growth, but what has done fantastically well for them, and it's only so, so early, is live TV, things that you can only watch through Netflix, kind of like Sky in the UK and in New Zealand.

14:30Vic: They'll have just a rugby game or a basketball game or something where you can only watch it through that. It's kind of crazy that you haven't had that before. I know. You think about it now. Like, how have they not gone into that sooner? Because the rights are so expensive, you know, and you get rights for like, you know, the Super Bowl for, you know, X number of years or maybe the Super Bowl is a bit different in terms of like one year. But yeah, you get sports and then they sign deals. But I think that's absolutely right for disruption. Do you think then that's maybe just not being priced in?

14:57Vic: Personally, yeah, I just think I think Netflix is looking super attractive. Considering its share price has fallen, people have factored all these things in. You know, they're already factored into the share price. And that's why it's not way, way up here. It's because people have factored that in. So it's like now you're looking at going forward. Okay, with these new growth rates, these, you know, all these things factored in, what is the outlook for the business? It's not that it's not growing. It's just that it's not growing at a rate that it used to, which is normal. So, so normal. Yeah, this is one of the cheapest multiples of earnings the share price has ever been at.

15:31So I'm dumping.

15:33Vic: I'm diving in. I'm dumping? Are you dumping? I'm dumping. I'm jumping in. That was diving and jumping. Dumping. I was like, oh my gosh. I'm off to dump. I'm dumping. I'm dumping in. It's so funny. I'm dumping in. Coming up after the break, we talk about another company that has released its financial results this week. It's Isilor Luxatica. If you don't know what it is, stay tuned. But first, we have a word from today's sponsor. Pathfinder is the perfect choice for the principled investor. someone who wants to make a competitive return without compromising their ethics to do it. All KiwiSaver providers are likely to experience outperformance and underperformance at some stage.

16:09Ups and downs happen. At least if Pathfinder underperforms, it might be because they're avoiding climate change acceleration and human rights abuses. Thanks to Pathfinder's KiwiSaver plan for making this episode of The Curve Weekly possible. A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi. To learn more about how they invest ethically, you can read the Ethical Investment Policy and Exceptions Register, which is available on their website. I'm going to start with a confession. The part of running a business that I avoided for far too long was the business finances. I felt out of my depth.

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17:42Vic: Okay, this company I always struggle to say, and I've even spelt it out of how it's sale on Sextra today. spelling it's a law luxotica yes oh my god just like really fast it's a law luxotica it's a complex name given the actual business you know it feels like it could be more straightforward it is two companies merged but yeah i i agree just like call it er or something i don't know lens and frames you know lnf just go for something yes it is a lens and frames business it is one of the biggest in the world and it is probably a business that nobody has heard of but everyone uses or has used it was started many many many many moons ago in europe and the founder leonardo he actually started making eyewear for giorgio amane when i was born so 37 years ago and it owns the brand Ray-Ban so it makes Ray-Ban glasses and Oakley glasses those are kind of its flagship it also owns the retail chain's sunglass hut OPSM no way yeah and it also is the licensed design so it does all the frames for Prada, Miu Miu, Chanel, Burberry, Imani, Doce, Gabbana, Tiffany, Versace, Valentino so yeah damn it I was supposed to wear sunglasses on this episode.

19:11Oh, that would have been so fun if you had. Okay, I'll go get mine. They look really good, Vic. Wait, are they new? How many?

19:20Vic: No, they're so old. I just found them when I was packing up my... Oh, they're quite fun. I like them. I know. I was like, yeah, nice. Yeah, nice. Right, so they are kind of like what we spoke about last week when we were talking about the infrastructure of the factories that build the AI chips that no one really knows about, but everyone relies on. So they made these. Wait, they actually made those sunglasses? Yeah. These are Prada sunglasses. Oh my God. Who has Prada sunglasses they just forgot about and find when packing up? You are insane. No, genuinely, I hated these. And I was really gutted when I...

20:05You've had so many purchases like this. That is so funny.

20:08Vic: And then I was like, I just refused to sell them. But I was like, I'll re-like them soon, hopefully. You actually do? Yeah. I think they're great. Thanks. So talking about, you know, companies you invest in that you actually purchase from, now I don't feel as bad. Even if you do forget you've bought them. Yeah. Yeah. They do the frames for so many, so many designer brands. And they've got 20 ,000 stores around the world. and the founder who's now passed away was one of the richest people in Italy. So when you say stores around the world, that's all the brands though, right? It's not actually their store.

20:47Vic: They just make the frames for Prada, Miu Miu, Burberry, all those. They don't run the stores. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But because they own every part of that value chain from the lens, the frame, the retail store, that they get such great margins because they're not paying away a certain part to someone else to do. And they've got 30 % of the global lens market. And there's so much to unpack here because women suffer vision loss more than men. And it's obviously part of aging. So there's an underlying structural trend there. Underlying structural trend for anyone that doesn't get it. It's basically the idea that she's so excited she wants to get it all out.

21:29But that's very important. So a structural trend, I remember not understanding. It's basically, what is a trend that is going to be happening over generations? Like a long-term, massive trend, you know? Like not something that's a two-year, three-year trend, but long-term. The aging population. Lingering health issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of thing. Long, long-term. So something that if you think about a business that's in the space, if something that's a long trend, it's going to be benefiting from that trend for a really long period of time.

21:56Vic: The structural trends that are positive for this company is that, yes, aging population, meaning more people are going to have eye issues and need lenses and need glasses. There's also AI glasses. So they own Ray-Ban and Ray-Ban has partnered with Meta and Meta is producing AI glasses. So they are benefiting from that side of things. They're also benefiting from the structural need for people to have more eyewear and also kids. Kids more screen time. they're getting terrible terrible eyesight so there's lots going on so not good anyway last week i came into the office and the share price was up 15 and i was like oh my goodness must have been a good result was digging down this is the biggest jump in share price and a return in a day that this company's had since 2008 so pretty pretty exciting and look it did have an absolute roaring increase in the share price because people got really excited about their glasses and then it's kind of come back a lot since then.

23:01Vic: So people got overexcited, a bit dramatic, you know. Mary the market got a bit dramatic, got a bit excited. Mary. And she kind of had to get brought down to earth a bit. There's still excitement around AI glasses, but it just got a bit carried away. And I think with this result, the key thing is that the core business is doing really, really well. And therefore, the AI glasses kind of just the icing on the cake, really. So this business has been around for a really long time. Where are they listed? I mean, it's still quite young. It's 37 years old. Would we say that's young? Yes, we would. We would say that is very young, Sophie.

23:37Wow, God. Okay, so the curve's actually like an embryo.

23:41Vic: No, it's just because I'm 37, you knob. Oh.

23:48Don't you worry, you're nearly 38.

23:51Vic: Would we say that's young? Yes, we would. Sorry, but as a company, is it young? No. I thought this was a new thing that I'd maybe not learned yet, that actually a third year of companies really considered young, but surely that's not the case. No, it's not. I mean, 37 years, usually a company gets taken over or it might go bankrupt or I don't know, there's something, it gets merged with something else or yeah, it's swallowed up by another one. But it's, yeah, the fact that it's been around for that long is really good. And the consistent growth in revenue and earnings that it's had over that time is really, really good.

24:29Vic: And that's because it was run by the founder for so long and he had about 30 % of the shares. So again, he's running it like a long-term business. Gives me the kind of the same feeling of LVMH. I knew you were going to say that. I knew you were going to say that. Just like constantly like making acquisitions to make themselves stronger, more diversified. And yeah, but now they've got into this case where the founder has died. I think he left all his shareholding, his 30 % to his children. So there is a lot of family feud drama going on. And so it's kind of a bit like, yes, it's a positive that there's still a founder stake, but it's not as positive as just a headline, you know, family owns 30 % because they're not all going to have decision making in the same way or work together or there could be a point where it gets sold because they can't agree.

25:30Vic: So it's kind of a bit more of a red flag than a green flag at this point. Not ideal. Not great. Not ideal. But also kind of fun to learn about a business I've never heard about before. Yeah. And also the more I learn. Meta actually owns 3%. as well. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense in terms of AI glasses though, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I think this shows just how much AI is permeating into other areas that are not considered your typical AI sectors, right? Like this is a consumer kind of healthcare name and now it's kind of being lumped into, okay, if meta glasses take off, these guys will benefit, but will they benefit as much as meta?

26:13Vic: probably not because they don't own the software. Well, they're just making the hardware. How do we feel about AI glasses, by the way? Just really company. I know. Who the fuck needs to film on their glasses? I think there's been a few, like, creepy, creepy things, right? Like, what do they actually do? Like, what actually do they do? If you, like, watch a demo on YouTube, they're pretty incredible in terms of, I mean, yeah, you can, like, watch movies, you can read the news, you can film stuff, you can, yeah. It's like an Apple Watch, but, like, it's fine. Oh, God. Now you're talking about it, I'm like, sounds quite good.

26:45Vic: But also, I think if it does take off, you know, someone that owns 30 % of the eyewear market, you're just like… Will be killing it. Because if you look at the Snapchat glasses, they are freaking hideous. You could not pay me to wear them. And we've got Miranda Kerr, the founder's wife, trying to market them. I'm just like, even her, she's an ex-supermodel. Like, she cannot even pull them off. Oh my gosh, they're so bad. at least Mesa is partnered with is using Ray-Ban so it's like you know there is some kind of style there this is the issue with all wearables whether it's for health whether it's for entertainment obviously fitting tech in a ring for aura or sunglasses hard you need thick ugly but like god only for only for a short period of time right like the Apple watches are getting a lot better are now you know having different straps and like that i reckon as the technology improves they'll only get better and better aura rings as well we can get different colors now like i think do you have an idea as well save all your old shitty ones because they'll end up becoming the ipod nano or something oh totally it's like our um our journals i found some of them when i got home what the curve journals yeah that we did with an organized life they're pretty iconic now i reckon we could sell them for oh my god but i do think there was a spelling mistake in there there Smelling the steak wasn't there.

28:07Vic: I read that so many times and I was like, oh. And then we spoke a curve with, you know, two Vs or something. It was like, cool. Oh, it's not our best work. I mean, they were really cool, but not. Yeah. I'd love to do merch. I'd love to do proper good merch. You know, like fun hoodies. We'll take that offline. Just to finish on this is that more women have vision loss than men. So this is kind of a bit of a female angle here in terms of women being their kind of core customer base. And of the 1.1 billion people living with vision loss in the world, over half of those are women. And that's because we live longer.

28:49Vic: And obviously the biggest cause of vision loss is when you're later in life and are age related. And then biology, we have a higher rate of dry eyes because of our hormones. Usually we have lower income, so therefore we can't afford to get preventative treatment or so things just deteriorate. So yeah, we... This gets honestly worse. Go us. Worse, doesn't it? Like, when are we going to have a bone thrown this way, you know? I know. What's the actual... Like, if anyone's listening to this, it's actually comedic at this point. Could we brainstorm all the pros of being a woman? I want to hear all the really good, positive, great things.

29:27Could be weird. Could be like bizarre. Could be awkward. I want to know. I'm like so baffled.

29:36Vic: Yeah. But yeah, Isilor Luxotica. Nice, Vic. Isilor. I didn't even look at the prompts. It's probably a company that most of us have used or have bought from, but we're just very unaware of. So I'm glad I could enlighten you and broaden your knowledge today. You're so much for that. No worries. Before we wrap up today's Curve Weekly, we have got a question for the ethical hotline, which is very exciting. So we're going to throw to Lily, who is our ethical investing expert from Pathfinder. So today's question, I'm going to completely out her because, you know, why not? So our producer, Emily, I would say has always been very interested in ethical investing and understanding how you can be a good person.

30:17We love Emily. So she submitted a question and she tried to slide it through as if it was not her question and I was like, I'm actually going to out you for this because it's so good. And I'm quite excited to answer it. I'm not going to, am I going to drag her onto the microphone? No. Okay, I'll just read it. Does divesting from a company that I think is unethical actually hurt their stock price? Or does someone else just buy their shares and actually make no difference? Love this question. Thank you, Emily. She's dying. She's so embarrassed. This one's for you. Look, to answer this question, I think we need to talk about scale.

30:49Like if one person, Emily in this case, divests real quietly from a company, no, that's not going to make a difference, right? That's not going to damage the company's share price and it's not going to change the thing she's concerned about in the first place. However, at a larger scale, so like a bigger group of shareholders or a single shareholder who had more shares, absolutely, like the threat of divestment from that kind of a cohort could make a bit difference. Also, if you've got agitation from the outside, so that's like the inside, but if you've got protesting and people are kind of risking damaging the reputation of the company, that can be a huge motivator to the company as well to change its behavior.

31:34Why is this? It's because actually reputation forms like an intangible part of the overall company value. I mean, a really good example would be looking at what happened with Tesla's share price and Elon Musk when his political stance and involvement in the government piped up. That share price has been long term impacted by what happened in the last couple of years. Yep. And also Nike in the 90s is another really good example. They had child labor found in their supply chain. People weren't into it and they protested widely. And this is in the 90s, so this is pre-cancel culture, but their share price plummeted and they changed their policy as a result.

32:16I mean, we still think about that now. If I think of Nike, I still think about that. So I think the answer to this question is, while yes, maybe divesting your£500 or your$500 or your even five might not do anything. It's the broader context of talking about why, sharing it, I think making it a socially unacceptable thing to invest in can have ripple effects. If no one had kicked up a fuss or divested from Nike or from Tesla, then yeah, nothing would have happened. Equally, if one person had divested and not talked about it, maybe it wouldn't have hurt their share price. But it's when that happens at scale, it can be really impactful.

32:55Absolutely. And that can be scale as a number of shareholders or scale as in how loud your voice is talking about it. But also what I wanted to come back to is how it's also really important how Emily feels. So on the one hand, there's this idea of making a great change. And I also, I think that sometimes there's too much pressure on us to change the world. We're not going to change the whole world, but it is really important to act in good faith on our own behalf. And if you're not invested, like if you don't want to be, if you don't want your money supporting or amplifying something, it is actually of immense value for you personally to get out of that.

33:33So, you know, don't like shortchange yourself just because you haven't changed the company's behavior necessarily. It is actually also really important to invest in line with your values for your mental health. I actually really agree with that. And I think that it's almost like, I'm trying to think of a non-investing example. It might be even if you use like being a vegetarian as an example. Yeah, okay, sure. You eating no meat might not have an enormous impact on the entire world or the whole agricultural industry or anything like that, but it makes you feel better about the way you're interacting with the world and the decisions that you're making.

34:08You know, if you act in a certain way, generally that has more impact than just like telling people. You know, this is a weird example, but I remember ages ago, I picked up, I was walking with a friend and I picked up rubbish and put it in the bin. Because I have a real thing about rubbish on the ground. I'm just like, who drops their rubbish? It's such a rude thing to do. but rather than like banging on about it I just picked it up and they told me afterwards like just seeing the behavior made them think about it differently and so I think in the same way it can be with anything if you're a living example of of doing things that align with your values that can also have ripple effects on your community and people around you and that's also nothing to be scoffed at even though it might not be directly impacting a share price.

34:51Oh, absolutely. And also I think like to add on that, other people may be genuinely okay with things that you're not. And being part of a democracy actually means accepting diverse opinions. So if you divest and someone else buys them, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's like a, it's evidence of people being able to disagree, but live together. But you need to be comfortable about where your money is invested. That's sort of secondary to whether or not the divestment of one person can change a company. But I do think that question has two parts in it. One is like the soul and one is like the outcome.

35:23The outcome, yeah, not one person can change it. But you know, your soul is very important, Emily, and I think how you feel is really important. And so there's, you know, there's two parts to that answer. Lily, thank you so much for the research that you did and for always coming with so many like pieces of information that are so helpful. I think for me personally, I do often find I get a bit overwhelmed and I'm like, oh, too hard basket. So thank you for bringing amazing answers. And for anyone that would like to read the full answer to that, we've put the link in the podcast show notes. And if you've got a question that you'd like to get off your chest, then you can also do that by the Ethical Hotline.

36:00But thank you so much, Lily. The views expressed by Pathfinder via the Ethical Hotline are of a general nature and are not specific to Pathfinder's product. To learn more about Pathfinder and what they do, please visit pathfinder.kiwi. Okay, well, have a great week, Vic. You've actually frozen again. I can't tell if you put the sunnies back on what's going on there but I will now

36:22Vic: because the future is so bright oh also quickly sorry before we go I've got to stop doing that like sort of scary when I remember something you're like my mum whenever I try to leave the house she's like oh and whenever I'm on the phone I'm trying to hang up she's like oh and and I'm like oh my goodness no yeah yeah sorry so annoying but we have just put out a episode with Vic on her money story like her whole journey from being baby Vic to now and it's a really amazing episode so we'll link it in the podcast show notes if you haven't listened you sort of forget that a lot of people haven't listened since the beginning so to kind of go back over how you ended up in finance and how you learned about investing so young it's really a super cool story so have a listen if you haven't already and have a great week everyone bye bye see you thank you so much for listening to this episode of the curve feel free to leave a comment to let us know what you thought.

37:15We always love hearing your feedback. New episodes are out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, so make sure you're subscribed to be notified whenever a new episode drops. In the meantime, we're around on socials so you can find all the links in the show notes. Hope you have a great week and we will see you for the next episode. Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors.

37:35Vic: Our platform exists for educational purposes only and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision. We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours. And thanks for being here. You got this. Yeah, we know you got this.