Caroline Fleck: The Secret Therapist Trick That Makes Anyone Feel Heard

0:00I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. and if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you wanna make it easier, you wanna make it flow, you wanna feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is gonna help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode of The Daily Motivation Show.

0:38Hi, my name is Lewis Howes and welcome to The Daily Motivation Show.

0:49What would you say then is the step-by-step process for making someone feel seen and validated? Okay. The model I use is called the validation ladder. It includes eight skills. I won't go through them all. But essentially, validation conveys mindfulness, understanding, and empathy in a way that makes the other person feel accepted. So at the bare minimum, if I don't understand or empathize with someone, all I can do is be mindful and engaged. And to be mindful, you need to project non-judgment. So it's not just listening, okay? Because people can tell when you are listening and coming up with your rebuttal and your counterargument or your judgments.

1:33So you have to listen in such a way that projects curiosity. And we know how to do that. All right? You use specific nonverbals and you play this little game in your head, which is amazing and super effective. You want me to talk about it? Yeah. Kind of embarrassed. Okay. So a little therapist trick, but it is, it's how we attend. If I'm sitting across from someone and you're talking to me, the game I'm playing in my head is to solve or figure out this kind of two-part riddle. What's your point? Why do you care about it? And how do I improve upon it? How could I crystallize that argument better?

2:16I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just thinking on your feet. You're throwing all this together. So in my mind, I'm thinking just how do I make this point better than you're making it now? It's kind of like when you're in a debate and you have to argue a position you don't necessarily agree with. Right. Like why you should smoke. And you're just in your job is just to kind of formulate the best argument you can. That's essentially what you're doing. So you start asking questions to try and understand their position better. And you're just tweaking it and tweaking it. If you watch great interviewers, like late night hosts, you'll see, you can see them playing a version of this game.

2:58They're trying to pull out the best interview they can. Doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with what the other person is saying or whatever. They're just trying to crystallize that message and that informs how they listen and then the questions they ask. And without fail, there's a sense of genuine curiosity there because it's genuinely there. Yeah. But if there's someone that you're working with, whether it's an elite executive or someone who's suicidal and they're trying to make a point, in your mind, you know that's not what they need to be thinking about. It's actually hurting them or blocking them from creating what they want.

3:33Sure. How do you play the game of validating their point when you know it's hurting them or it's a false belief around something or it's not the truth that's going to support them and setting them free emotionally, psychologically? How do you play that game and then empower them to think a different way? Okay. So as I'm playing that game, I'm just asking at this level, it's just kind of mindful awareness that I'm projecting here. And as I'm listening, I am hearing the emotion. I am starting to make connections in my head. I am looking for what is the kernel of truth in what this person is saying?

4:08Where is this coming from? What is the feeling behind this? What function does this behavior serve? With suicidality, it's often relief from pain. All right. If they had a way to relieve pain, they would take it. And this is the only option they see. I don't agree with that. But importantly, validation does not require agreement. I'm a vegetarian. but I could validate why somebody would choose to eat me. That doesn't mean I agree with them. I just see the validity in their argument. And I can focus on that instead of the part that I disagree with. And importantly, if I focus on that first, the conversation around perhaps changing their opinion is much more likely to be successful.

4:55So validate their point first. Validate the valid, yeah. And then if you're trying to influence or persuade to seeing something differently, how do you move them in that direction? That's when I pivot to more like behavioral stuff. OK, so that would be, you know, we have all sorts of reinforcement shaping that we do to try and kind of nudge the person in the other direction. But the interesting thing is the person will just be more receptive to you. You're curious. They absorb that curiosity. So one of the other mindfulness skills we use here, there's that attending one, and then there's copying, which sounds so weird.

5:35But let me tell you, if you are like up at night, you can't sleep. Google the research on mimicry or copying. It is fascinating stuff. Like simply copying another person's body language. Okay. Does it get too weird if you're copying everything? It does. Like I scratch, you scratch. I switch my feet. Yeah, it does. I shift, you shift. It would. But here's the thing. So as soon as we were talking and I was starting to feel like, oh, this isn't going well, I would in my head just say like copy. I'm not going to be too, you know, drilled in, but I just give like myself a message copy. For you to copy me?

6:11For me to copy you. I just tell myself copy. And I slowly start to assume a similar position. Okay. And I'm intentionally doing that because I'm trying to attune to you. And this isn't me just being weird. Doing this activates mirror neurons, wherein as a result of copying your expression and your body language, I will start to feel, I will start to taste some of what you are experiencing. That is how mirror neurons function. We are designed to copy. Babies mimic the facial expressions of people, of their parents and caregivers. When we're attracted to people or we want to impress them or we like them, we naturally copy them.

7:05When we sense threat, we tend to close up. And interestingly, those are the moments oftentimes, conflict, right, where connection would serve you best. It's just not what we're wired to do. Yeah, because we're in the defense. That's right.

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8:20Again, have an amazing day, and I'll see you tomorrow with another episode of the Daily Motivation Show.