In short
How anxiety and fear-based “monkey mind” keep people physiologically aroused and prevent sleep; strategies to calm the mind and lower heart rate before bed to fall asleep.
Guest background
Dr. Michael Breus, a psychologist and sleep specialist who discusses reducing reliance on sleeping medications when not necessary.
Key claims
Most sleep problems have an anxiety component; the brain can override medication effects (example: telling an Ambien patient “you have cancer” can prevent sleep). Sleep improves when the body shifts from sympathetic “fight or flight” to parasympathetic “rest and digest,” often requiring a “runway” before bed to lower heart rate (target around 60 bpm) and reduce rumination.
Notable examples
Waking mid-night and worrying about kids/job/groceries; flipping on TV with tragedies; cases where medication may be appropriate (paranoid schizophrenia, severe pain after a motor vehicle accident).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Sleep Issues and Anxiety
0:45 to 2:24
Exploration of how anxiety and fear affect sleep quality and ability to relax.
“So you might have been safe physically, but emotionally, things weren't necessarily where you thought they should be or understood they should be.”
The Impact of Thoughts on Sleep
2:24 to 3:52
Discussion on how thoughts and worries disrupt sleep and create physiological arousal.
“able to relax and slow down their thinking.”
Achieving the Right Heart Rate for Sleep
3:52 to 4:38
Importance of lowering heart rate to facilitate better sleep.
“When we wake up in the middle of the night, we immediately go to the negative.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:24Dr. Michael Breus:Thank you.
0:30Hi, my name is Lewis Howes and welcome to the Daily Motivation Show.
0:41I would argue a lot of sleep-related issues are fear-based, right? So you might have been safe physically, but emotionally, things weren't necessarily where you thought they should be or understood they should be. And that fear can really play a role. Most of sleep issues that I deal with have an anxiety component to them. And when I think about anxiety, it's not like, oh, I'm afraid of this or, you know, I've got a phobia about that. It's there's a level. My heart rate is up. There's stuff going on. It's not it's not working here. And I'm I'm concerned. I'm scared. That will override just about anything.
1:17Really? Yeah. I give you an example. If you were a patient of mine and you walked in and let's say you were taking 10 milligrams of Ambien, I could utter one sentence looking at your medical chart. and i could make that ambient not work i could just turn you and say you have cancer boom you ain't sleeping that night right it overrides the pharmacy right this is the most powerful drug in the world is your brain and if you can figure out how to use that to your advantage now we're talking right so i'm not saying anything against pills there are plenty of people out there who use medications and and by the way there's nothing wrong with that there are certain situations where pharmaceutical intervention makes a ton of sense, right?
1:58If you're a paranoid schizophrenic, you get your Ambien, okay? You know, you've been in a motor vehicle accident, got terrible pain. Hey, you might need a sleeping pill. My goal is to try to get people off of those medications when they're not necessary. Almost everybody was able to sleep without pills when they were younger. So let's see if we can figure out how to get back to some of that. Yeah. And as a psychologist, then what shifts in the mind that causes people not to be able to relax and slow down their thinking. Right. What is it a traumatic event? Is it a, is it a, a reoccurrence of an uncertainty around events?
2:35Is it a constantly thinking about the past, worrying about the future? What ruminates in the mind that causes us not to sleep? All of the above, right? You literally hit almost all of them. So it's traumatic events, but it can be as simple as daily worries, right? I mean, here's the thing. You know, I've heard this many times. is a lot of people, they wake up in the middle of the night and they get monkey mind, right? Now, I'm not sure I have to give a formal definition of monkey mind, but I think we all know a little bit of what that is. It's, are you worried about your kids? Are you worried about your job?
3:05Did you get the right groceries? What's that noise? Letter in the house, right? There's a whole host of things that can be out there. This causes a level of what we call physiological arousal. What it does is it turns on what's called the sympathetic nervous system. So you've got an autonomic nervous system breaks out into two pieces, sympathetic and parasympathetic. This is the fight or flight was just sympathetic. And then the rest and digest is the parasympathetic. We want at least before bed and during sleep, we'd love you to be in the parasympathetic. But when you wake up in the middle of the night, here's the thing that's kind of crazy.
3:40Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night for a good reason? Has anybody run into your room and said, happy birthday in the middle of the night? I don't know. Hey, it's joyful. But not many times. Not many times. believe it or not, our brain is built. When we wake up in the middle of the night, we immediately go to the negative. And that can be problematic. And so you start to think about different things. Sometimes people flip on the TV. I got to be honest with you. You flip on the TV nowadays, it's tragedy all over the place. It's geopolitical stuff. It's financial stuff. It's emotional stuff.
4:11I mean, there's a lot of things that are influencing us on the regular. What I try to explain to people is you need runway to land the plane, right? So you need time before bed that we don't have all of those things going on so that I can lower your heart rate. So here's the crazy part is if everybody gets just one piece of evidence from, from this podcast, you want a heart rate of about 60 or below to enter into a state of unconsciousness, right? If your heart rate's above that, it's going to be tough for us to get you there. Now, don't get me wrong. There There are people out there with high blood pressure who may never get a heart rate below 60.
4:47But I'm just talking about a lowering of the heart rate pretty significantly to allow your body to begin to relax and then allow the sleep process to take over. And if your mind is constantly ruminating on stressful things or it's watching stressful things, it's going to be hard to bring it back down. Exactly.
5:10I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode of The Daily Motivation Show.
5:51Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of The Daily Motivation, and I hope you have an amazing rest of your day. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to click the link in the description. That will take you to the full episode of our main podcast on the school of greatness. And if you are loving the daily motivation, please follow us over on Apple podcast and Spotify and leave us a review over on Apple podcast right now. And if you want more exclusive content and ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on Apple podcast right now. And if you want to get even more inspiration from our world class guests and learn how to improve your life and take it to the next level, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
6:41Again, have an amazing day, and I'll see you tomorrow with another episode of the Daily Motivation Show.
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From the publisher
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Check out the full episode: https://greatness.lnk.to/1930DM
Dr. Michael Breus makes a wild point early: one sentence from a doctor could make 10mg of Ambien completely useless. That's how much your brain runs the show.
Most sleep problems aren't about your mattress or your schedule. They're fear-based. Low-grade anxiety that keeps your heart rate up and your nervous system stuck in fight-or-flight.
And when you wake up at 3am? Your brain immediately goes negative. It's wired that way.
Breus says your heart rate needs to drop to around 60 bpm before your body will even allow sleep. Flip on the news at night and you're fighting that the whole way down.
You need runway to land the plane.
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Topics
sleep anxiety, Dr. Michael Breus, fear and sleep, how to fall asleep, monkey mind, sleep doctor, parasympathetic nervous system, insomnia causes, heart rate and sleep, sleep without pills
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