Be An Everyday Person | Coach Buzz Williams

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1:03Welcome to the weekend edition of The Daily Stoic. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring.

1:54hey it's ryan welcome to another episode of the daily stoic podcast one of the benefits of being a writer is you wear whatever you want uh the rose line about beware of any enterprise that requires new clothes i think about that a lot i gotta wear what i want i gotta dress how i want you notice i'm mostly wearing band t-shirts these days and it's hot in texas so i usually wear basketball shorts. But when one of my favorite guests was coming, Buzz Williams, the head basketball coach at Texas A &M, he's a disciplined dude and an important dude. I was like, you know what? I should put on some real clothes.

2:30I put on pants and of course, Buzz showed up in basketball shorts and a shirt, which of course he did. He's a basketball coach. That's what he would wear. But the reason I'm telling the story is I just laughed when I saw it. One of my favorite stories in Discipline is Destiny is this story about Zachary Taylor. And here, I'll plug that in for you right now. How we dress and style ourselves is one of those tricky edge cases that makes temperance difficult to pinpoint. A person who is sloppy and slovenly can hardly be said to be particularly self-disciplined. But on the other hand, those who value the superficial, sharp creases, brand names, or the fanciest new styles over the substantive are equally off track.

3:18General Zachary Taylor hated wearing a uniform and disliked displaying his rank or honors, which were considerable. Yet when he met with Commodore David Connor on the Rio Grande during the Mexican-American War, Taylor dressed up to make his guest more comfortable, as full dress was expected for naval officers. Meanwhile, Commodore Conner, in a gesture of respect at his peers' humble style, came in civilian dress. All of which is to say that every situation, every person may require a different approach. Sweat the small stuff, but don't be superficial. Welcome to temperance. It's a balance of opposites by definition.

4:02Sometimes we have to be a bit of Commodore Conner, and sometimes we have to be General Taylor. We dress well, but not too well. We take care of ourselves, but never at the neglect of the people or things in our care. We take our appearance seriously without taking ourselves seriously.

4:21So anyways, what I find so sweet about that story and what I found so sweet about Buzz coming out is, you know, it's about empathy, right? You're like, how would this person like me to dress? What's respectful to this person? And the best scenarios are where they are also doing that for you. I really loved this conversation with Buzz. He's awesome, as always. If you missed part one, definitely check that out. But actually, my favorite little nugget from Buzz is this thing. He talks about being an everyday guy. And here, I'm going to run a clip of that real fast. The best thing we do is every day.

4:57But the hardest thing we do is every day. and all that September proves is who's an everyday guy. And if you're not an everyday guy, it doesn't mean we love you less. It just means you're going to have to sit over there on the side. Right? You have to be everyday and it's not going to change and it's not going to go away and I'm not going to lose my patience and go, oh, never mind. We'll just do it again tomorrow. No, we're going to do it today. And that's what makes our program our program, but that's the hardest thing. He's a great basketball coach and a great thinker, and a student of the game, but also a student of human beings and life.

5:31And you can find Buzz on Instagram and Twitter at Team Coach Buzz. And I'm going to take my kids out to watch A &M play at least a couple times this year. I'm excited to see that. I hope you enjoy this episode.

6:00Think of this idea, okay, this idea of like, we focus on what we control. I think that must be interesting as a coach, because you have what seems like a lot of control, right? Coaches are powerful. They're important. They can do this, run these laps. You have a lot of discretion. And yet I've got to imagine the longer you do it, either as a coach, you become egotistical and convinced you're the puppet master can make anything happen. you become a tyrant, or you're the kind of coach who in almost more of a Zen-like way, become aware of how little control you have over things and the tension between that must be an interesting balance.

6:41I think early, this is, I just finished my 30th season in coaching. 17 now I've been a head coach. And I would say before I knew you, or before I'd read any of your work, I would say I was on the way to egotistical, power hungry, driven for the wrong reasons, probably at a normal rate, maybe slightly faster. And I think now that I'm wherever I'm at in my career, I'm completely against that way and much more aware of the constant tension in every possible way and how little control I do have. And that has changed how I have spent my time as a leader, but it's also changed how I do many things within our program, whether it's with my staff, whether it's with our team, who I hire, who we recruit, because I think the greatest impact I can have is on the hearts and the minds and the souls of the people involved, regardless of their title, regardless of their age, regardless of where they came from.

8:02I feel like that is more my calling, so to say I'm not saying that courage is my calling but yeah I feel like that's more my purpose than what's my favorite sideline out of bounds play to score uh with two seconds left so I'm not saying I don't care about the sideline out of bounds play but I think early in my career to be vulnerable I think I was wanting to have the right sideline out of bounds play so that the narrative would be what a great coach buzz is. And so we would spend an inordinate amount of time in preparation, if by chance, which it's a low percentage chance, that that occurrence would happen, that we would be prepared.

8:52And now I'm almost probably to the other extreme. We probably need to have a sideline out of bounds play to score, guys. if we need one I'm going to call it time out that might be one thing and here's the other thing if you guys don't mind we're going to give some time to specials a special situation on these days and I've just created within the routine of what we do that everybody's aware we're going to work on that sideline out of bounds play or whatever but it's because my heart has changed on what I believe the most important impact should be. It sounds like, and I can relate to this, you're a little less outcome focused and more process and people focused.

9:40I found this, I would say early on, I was like, how many copies is this going to sell? How is this going to do? What am I going to get? As opposed to like, what are the things that I need to do? How can I get lost in actually doing it and be present for it? And the paradoxical thing was, it has, for the most part, translated into better outcomes. I just spend less time thinking about and aiming at very specific outcomes because that part's not in my control. I heard this story about John Wooden that he practices the team very intensely throughout the week. And then right before they would go on, run out of the tunnel, he would say, well, guys, I've done my job.

10:24And there's something about the handing it to them Yeah. Now, obviously, when you would watch for sideline footage, he's clearly coaching. He's not just like sitting there, but he's basically saying the bulk of my contribution was last week and 10 years ago leading up to this moment. I'm not going to grip everything so tightly in the minute it's happening to get it to go a very specific way, because that's actually much less in my power than I would like to think it is. So I've read, I think this is your 12th book. I've read the other 11 and I've bought 2000 copies of the other 11 to give them away.

11:01And you know what? I've learned a lot from you on the work is the win, not to take it away from what you do for a living or even make it about what I do. But it's almost regardless of industry. We live in a world of expectations. And then we're constantly trying to meet those expectations as if when we meet them, okay, we made it. And then we realize, no, it's got to go to the next one. They just moved the expectations. Let's just keep changing the goalpost. And so I think what I have sensed trying to be ultra self-aware over the last, I don't know, five, 10 years, and I see it even evolving in that timeframe is, well, we live in a world of expectations.

11:49And so I've just kind of quit paying attention to those expectations. I'm not saying that they're not a part or they should go away or I get all of it. But if we live in an expectation world, I've just let that go and tried to be consumed with today, regardless of the result of today. because whether we win this game or lose this game, if I'm going about the process or the work the right way, I don't think it should alter or affect what I'm going to do tomorrow, right? If I'm going about this the right way, what I'm doing today, the intent and the purpose and more maybe the why. So are you saying that the result of today should change what I'm doing tomorrow?

12:42So, no, it may alter it if it makes the process better the next day, but that's the only reason why. Yeah, it's like, look, if a professional baseball player strikes out at one at-bat, I mean, they know they're getting multiple at-bats in that game. Unless they did something extremely wrong, right, or they learned something dramatic about the pitcher in front of them, the best thing for them to do is to act as if it never happened, whether they hit a home run or they struck out, right, is to go up and do your thing exactly the same way the next time. And the problem is we see the thing in front of us as this looming, enormous thing, as opposed to one of many reps of that thing.

13:22And look, if you don't win any games, they're not going to let you coach anymore. If I don't sell any books, it obviously matters to a degree. It's just you realize the more you're focusing on these very specific outcomes, it's actually taking you away from putting more resources at doing the thing it's making you worse at the thing that's interesting i'm listening to what you're saying there's a hundred over a hundred years of experience on my staff with me yeah you know most of those guys and they've been with us some of them from the very beginning no matter where they joined the the tour at and um during this past season on an off day following a win one of them who's been with me over a decade he was like hey coach it's kind of different than what you once were and I was like I hope so I mean surely I'm a little better yeah is that what you're saying he goes no just like you don't really like get hyped up and you don't like just snap completely he goes you get excited I'm not saying that and you don't get upset I'm not saying that but it's just it's kind of more level even kill yeah and i go yeah i don't know if that's good or bad i said but it's good internally for me yeah i said just because i think i have a more direct path on what i'm supposed to do and i'm more comfortable in how we're doing it and i think some of the emotions whether they were good or bad in an immature way were because of the result of what had just transpired and I I'm trying to improve on not ever using the word win yeah and never using the word lose with our team and I don't want to be Nick Saban and say It's the process.

15:20I'm not trying to steal a mantra, but I have to be careful in a world of expectations with a group of 20 year old men who are living in a different world than I live in, whose historical perspective is very narrow. and this is their chance and I want to give them their best chance. So I want to make sure that what I'm providing for them gives them their best chance, not specifically to on the floor, but in all categories of their life. And if they're on a roller coaster, cause they're seeing me on a roller coaster. Well, I don't think in a world of expectations that gives them the most stability.

16:03And it's almost like I feel like some of the instability that comes from all of these expectations, that's not really who you're competing against anyway. I think the leverage should be from the instability. Well, what is the leverage? Well, the leverage should be the stability if you have a path on the purpose and the how and the why to the instability that comes from all the expectations.

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19:46what's like probably a 19 year old who's trying to make the nba or get out of where they're coming from through the game of basketball yeah this thing they've been good at their whole life that they're deeply passionate about and love the lesson they need from their coach is probably not that winning is really really important and losing really really sucks they know that what they need from you is the ability to bounce back from both of those, right? The ability to be like, there's this great passage from Mark Strelitz, he says, to accept it without arrogance and to let it go with indifference.

20:23That's what you're teaching, right? You're going, hey, we won, that doesn't say anything about us. We lost, that doesn't say anything about us. We got to go do the thing tomorrow and the day after and the day after and and yeah winning shouldn't knock us off our block and losing shouldn't knock us off our block the only thing that we should be concerned about is if we think we didn't do what we were trying to do right like i gotta it's like did i think the book was good did i do my best did i put everything into it great some random reviewer it You know, I got a real shitty review on this book from someone.

21:02That guy who I don't know, who I didn't care about eight seconds ago, I never even heard of. Yes. Him saying that I didn't do this thing I wasn't even trying to do to begin with, that doesn't determine whether it's good or not. And if I overcorrect, I now on the next project, which is what I'm on to, that guy's voice is in my head. I'm not going to do as good a job because I'm going to be trying to please this one person as opposed to following the process and values and ideas that I should be focused on. But I think you've done an extraordinary job of not allowing the 99 positive comments versus the one negative comment.

21:42I think you handle the criticism and the praise the same. Yeah, sure. You have to. I think how you go about that is the secret sauce. Yes. And I don't know that I'm mature enough to go, all right, well, let me see all 100 and let me just read them just so that I can be happy about the 99 and then be upset about the one. And so I don't know if this is the right thing. So I've just tried to stay away from all 100. but I don't exactly, I haven't completely figured out how to do that to be transparent. No, no. Look, it would be amazing if someone was so secure, so self-aware, so rational that they could take all the feedback and, and just deal with it.

22:30Like it didn't matter and it didn't have impact. The highest level of stoicism is, yeah, you could have someone spit in your face and then someone tell you that the best and not have either of those things register with you. But I think that's extremely hard and extremely unlikely. And so, yeah, creating a bit of a bubble, a protective space around you is really critical. It can't be absolute because then you can start to live in some fake reality. But at the same time, the more you insulate, there's a letter from Hemingway to Fitzgerald or Fitzgerald to Hemingway, I forget it. But he basically says, look, if you read the good reviews and you let them matter to you, you got to read the bad reviews and they're going to matter to you.

23:13And it's better to just be like, look, does it matter? Did it do what I was trying to do? And do the people I care about that I'm close to that love me regardless, are they like, you did it? You didn't do it? That's the only kind of feedback you want to let into the inner sanctum. And I've got to get better at that because I think it's directly proportional in my opinion. I think it's directly proportional that my growth is based on the willingness to accept the truth. So even if the one negative is the truth, my growth is based on, can I accept that without running away per se and saying 99 said this was great this guy over here said it's bad yeah but i think my growth over the rest of my life is can i receive the truth am i filtering the truth through the right filters to receive it and go whatever the truth is good or bad i'm not going to run away from it sure i think that that's where I've where I have to continue to figure out how to improve because of the exposure like what you're doing you're you're everywhere and so okay well there's going to be 99 good things and one bad thing yeah so how are you filtering are you paying attention to all 100 or just like no I don't even look at it buzz I'm paying somebody else to look at it uh because I'm just going to keep going on what I have planned.

24:49And I think that's where I have to improve because I want to receive the truth and I don't want to run away. But I think that the truth, as long as it's filtered appropriately, is directly proportional to my growth. But I also think you have such a powerful role in modeling and teaching this to like, so look, you're a grown ass man. You have a sense of who you are, you have 30 years of accomplishments, you have other things outside the game that can balance you and fulfill you, right? I got to imagine it is so destabilizing and dangerous to be 20 years old and have tens of thousands of people cheering for you, millions of people following you on social media.

25:33That means hundreds of thousands of people not liking you on social media. And so to be able to sort of maintain, the Stokes would call this having an inner citadel, Just a sense of your core worth and strength, what's in your control, your agency as a person that's indifferent to all these things that are happening outside. That's something you accumulate over experience and time. Most of us are not thrust into the literal arena where people are going like this or like this to you. That would just be insane as a kid. I try to give them a lot of grace. Yeah. Because I think everything you said is exactly what it is.

26:15I feel very lucky that my book slowly succeeded. Because if I had gotten everything I thought I wanted, which is what I have now, on my first book, would it destroy me? I think so. And I've tried to find unique ways to connect with each of our guys. Because if they're at our level, they are that. Whether they're doing it in real time at that particular day. but I try to ask them more questions than make statements on. Yeah. How do you feel about that? Like, how do you think about that? Like, teach it to me. Yeah. And they're like, well, you're the coach. And I'm like, I know, but I'm 51. Yeah.

26:55Like, not being a jerk to you. Like, I already made it. Yeah. You're trying to make it. And I'm watching what you're going through. And how can I support you? how can i give you help how can i show you grace because i'm watching it happen and i'm like i'm offended like hey shut up yeah he's the kid alone yeah yeah not to negate the passion towards your team but like their kids i know his mom yeah i know where his mom lives yeah like he's doing great yeah yeah like he's he's an overcomer he's an overachiever that he's here like if i showed you you'd be like good job miss every shot yeah yeah and i think i've seen it more clearly as now some of my children are the age of our players and see like 15 years ago when i've got little kids, I didn't see it like that.

27:58And it wasn't the exposure that it is now, but I've learned a lot from our guys on, Hey, thanks for teaching me that. Yeah. That's a powerful lesson and I'm going to do better and I'm going to figure out a way to help you. Yeah. And the next version of you, it's real. It's real. So what is it? Cause you had this awesome video about what's an everyday guy are you tough enough to be an everyday guy i think i don't think it has anything to do with ball i think a lot of it has to do with how i was raised and what i witnessed as i was growing up is whatever it is that you're trying to do what however you deem success are you tough enough to do that every single day and i think that time if you're basing it on talent well talent at some point in time probably will prevail, but not always.

28:50And so if you remove talent, then it becomes consistency. Then it becomes discipline. Then it becomes, how are you spending your time? And are you tough enough to do those things every day? And like I tell our guys all the time, I would like to win, but I want to win playing my hand and I'm okay losing if I'm not playing my hand and my hand is what I believe is right. And I can't sacrifice what I believe those things to be are right. And I'm not saying that I am right. I'm just saying an everyday person is who I respect the most. An everyday person, their talent is going to improve because they're tough enough to do it every day.

29:36Hey, I can't shoot. Well, it's like compound interest. Just shoot then if you can't shoot. Hey, I want to get stronger. Go in there and lift weights. Hey, I want to lose some weight. And I just think maybe it's counterintuitive to constantly talk about the end. Hey, you want to lose some weight? I can tell you how to lose weight. Don't eat breakfast for 200 days and walk on the treadmill. do that for 200 days and then get on the scale not going the other way around sure and i think that's to me that's what an everyday guy is yeah it's like uh it's the difference between my friend austin cleon talks about he says uh you know a lot of people want to be the noun they don't want to do the verb you know that's good and that's really good i think it's it's like we want these end states we want to be seen as x but we don't understand that it's really a result of doing y right like people people want to publish books they don't want to write books but publishing is a byproduct of writing of the writing and and yeah improving is a is a byproduct of doing the work having a great jump shot is the result of having done many many jump shots so so much of what you're being praised for publicly is whatever it is that you're doing privately.

30:58Yes. Yes. Whether it's somebody making a jumper or somebody writing another bestseller. Ron, how are you doing that? There's layers to that. Yeah. But somewhere in that layer of what you've done over the last 15 years, somewhere in that layer, you've continued to refine the process. and somewhere in that process is included, I'm going to do it every day. Now, I may write more on Wednesday than I do on Saturday when I'm taking the kids to get donuts, but somewhere in there, the consistency of I'm going to do it every single day for me, where I'm from, how I grew up, that's what I respect is the toughness to do it every day.

31:49We just took our kids to an outdoor performance at the Nutcracker. They had a snow cone, and then they went insane in the car ride home. And one of the things I try to remind myself when that's happening is that I don't control my kids' behavior, especially when they're too far gone like that, but I do control how I respond, right? That's stoicism, but it's also what Dr. Becky talks about. Dr. Becky is a clinical psychologist and a best-selling author, and she founded Good Good Inside, which is there to give parents practical, actionable tools for handling those everyday challenges with confidence.

32:24My wife introduced me to Dr. Becky's books. I love them. I've recommended them a million times. I've had her on the podcast. And as it happens, Dr. Becky is hosting two live Q &A events for Good Inside members. I am one of them. She signed me up for it about a year and a half ago. I've loved it ever since. On December 1st, you can join Dr. Becky for her How Not to Raise Assholes event, which is about avoiding entitlement and raising kind, empathetic kids. And on December 15th, she's hosting her How Not to Lose It Over the Holidays event, which I'm sure we could all use. As I said, I'm a big fan of Dr.

33:01Becky. She's been a great influence for me as a parent and just as a human being. And daily Stoic listeners can join for 15 % off with code stoic 15. You just got to head over to good inside.com to catch the events.

33:22The success is a lagging indicator of the things you were doing. It's a quote shirt. I sent it to you. Yeah. Yeah. All success is a lagging indicator. And so that's the point on, uh, the biggest loser or the best jump shooter or the best author. Yeah, if you're asking me about this, no question is a bad question, but that's the wrong question. And to what you said, like, I don't want you to talk about my Twitter feed. I don't want you to talk about my Instagram reel. I understand how I got a million followers. I understand how I have an email list of 1 million people. What you don't understand is where it started and how it got to that.

34:02and if we're only talking about right now, well, then you're never going to get it. I saw this thing with Chris Rock. He was talking more about inspiration, but I think it's true here. He was saying a comedian makes the money during the day, but they collect it at night. So it's going around thinking about the things, working on the things, riffing about it with other comedians. That's where it's made. But then it's when you go up on stage for eight minutes or an hour, whether you're in a club or you're selling at a theater, that's the lagging indicator coming true. But the work, the important part was earlier that day or probably earlier that decade.

34:45So good. Yeah. Publishing is collecting, but writing is where the money's made or the gym is where the money's made it's doing the thing that's the important part the public facing part is this accidental byproduct of doing the thing and i think uh too oftentimes it would be like me understanding what you do i don't i enjoy and i learn from and i grow from what you do but the interaction the association the tour all of the things that come with writing that book that's a very small percentage of the actual work yeah for sure and that's one thing that uh as my career has unfolded the percentage of time that goes to what comes from this versus what it took to make this diametrically opposed.

35:50And it's very easy, whether it's money, whether it's ego, whether it's power, whether it's followings. You have to be really careful that on that 180, you don't go all the way over there and tip the scales upside down. And I think that's why an everyday guy over time, it's not the first one. it's not the second one can he do it again can you do it again and if you can it is based somewhat on talent but it means you have kept in proportion what's required to do the actual work yes yeah an everyday guy is in the gym early whether it was a blowout loss the night before or whether you won a championship the day before they're in the gym whether it's been a good season a bad season whether they're feeling great, whether they're not feeling great.

36:46They're just, they're doing, they're doing the thing. When you write your third bestseller, human nature takes you to, well, Ryan, you can go speak across the country to fortune 500 companies and arguably give less time, less mental energy and make more money than when you write the next book. You just totally described the business that I'm in. Most nonfiction authors make more money from speaking than writing. And it's much easier. I mean, look, it's hard to get up on stage. It's hard to command an audience, but it kicks your ass less creatively to just talk about a thing you've already done than to do the next thing.

37:36And so the temptation is, hey, yeah, I just want to go collect, right? I want to collect the rewards from the thing. Like 90 % of the talks I give are still about The Obstacle is Away, a book I wrote 10 years ago. So I could just wake up every day and just collect dividends from a thing I already did. But to me, waking up and doing the next thing is one more intellectually challenging and fulfilling, but it's also harder. And so it It keeps me honest, I think. But yeah, I empathize and understand why you don't want to do it. There's an expression that a writer is someone to whom writing does not come easily.

38:21But speaking is easy comparatively. And so, yeah, you can just keep doing... You can go towards the easier thing or you can go towards the harder thing. And I think it's human nature to go towards the easier thing. We're like water. whether that's the success that came from the obstacle is the way book versus it's time to write the next one. And I think that how you handle that equilibrium of easy and hard is what constitutes your sustainability. But at some deeper level, it's why are you doing it? Are you doing it so you can make a million dollars speaking in 2025 on the obstacle is the way well to your point you could have done that in 2018 when it had been on the new york times bestseller for 92 weeks like just just run around but then you wouldn't have the relationship you have with your wife or uh walking running swimming with your boys like it wouldn't have turned into this and like that's why I respect you and anyone like you that you're you have constantly fought human nature now I'm going to go over here and I'm going to work what are you going to do tomorrow I'm going to work oh I thought you were going to speak no I told him to stop Mark Batterson who I think is a brilliant author who has started a church he's about your age and what he has done in his world is phenomenal.

40:01Author, I think he's written 14 New York Times bestsellers, kind of got to know him the same way. And I have watched his career unfold from afar. We're not best friends. I'm not suggesting that. But I've watched how he has stayed true to his mission. sure uh bob goff another author you know bob goff lawyer has created academies and helped thousands of orphaned orphans outside of the states and his rule is i'll speak but i have to be home before dinner yeah and it's kind of like kid rock you know when kid rock got uh maybe addicted to the wrong things uh one of his rules was i'll go sing at the concert but i have to be at home by midnight huh and so based on where the concert was was based on the type of jet he had and based on where the fbo was relative to the concert venue and based on the car service on who they picked up.

41:12And like when he would finish the, whatever it's called, the mic drop, when he was done, they said that as soon as he walked off the stage that the door was already open and the driver already had started the car and he just got in. And they said that when he got to the tarmac, that when he pulled up to the FBO, the gate was already open. The driver never stopped. took him right to the gate. And they said that as soon as he got up the last step of the plane, they were already shutting it and the plane had already started and he was in the air. And they said that when he landed, it was the exact same.

41:52And that he quit asking, you know, there was a period of time, I guess, when he was really popular. I don't really, I've just studied this scenario. They said that he would do the exact same thing when he landed in detroit just to get home just to get home wow and that he turned down that you know how like uh on some of those shirts that you wear on the back it may have had the concert tour date they said that uh you could when you would uh buy those shirts if you really looked at the cities it would be a certain portion of the united states but it was all based on he had to be home by Midnight, but nobody ever knew that.

42:33Wow. Yeah. I was like, oh, I like that guy. I like that too. That's awesome, man. Do you want to go check out some books in the bookstore? Please. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.

43:21We'll see you next time.

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