Christina Pazsitzky On Teaching Comedians Philosophy

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2:07Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors.

2:57Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. There is obviously this perception that stoicism is boring, that it's dour, that it's devoid of any and all emotions, any sort of zest or joy for life. We've talked many times about how this isn't true, but I think one of the areas that we can really combat this is by showing that the Stoics had a sense of humor. There's jokes even in meditations. Mark Surrealis repeats this weird joke we don't quite get about how this guy is so rich and his house is so full of stuff he doesn't have any place to go to the bathroom. So even Mark Surrealis, who people don't seem to think as, I don't think many people would read as funny, actually is funny.

3:44And the Stoics love the theater, right, which is where they would have seen comedy, not just tragedies, but also comedy. and that's why I love talking to comedians and in the case of today's episode we have an interesting quirk where we are talking to an Oxford trained philosophy student and a hugely successful and very funny comedian the one and only Christina Pazinski aka Christina P you've probably seen her many specials on Netflix you've probably seen her hugely popular podcast which she hosts with her husband, Tom Segura, Your Mom's House. She has her own podcast, Where's My Mom's At? And just an overall really smart, really hilarious person.

4:30I first heard her when she was on Marc Maron's podcast many years ago, and now she is a fellow Austinite. I did Tom's podcast, Two Bears, One Cave. And when I was there, I gave a book for her that I thought she'd like this book I've been raving about called Baby on the Fire Escape, which is about the creative life, but specifically some of the struggles that creative mothers have had. And we ended up connecting. And then she and my wife became friends. They came out to our ranch recently and we putzed around and had fun. And anyways, I'm a big fan of her work. I think she's very funny. We did a long, awesome episode here in the Daily Stoic studio.

5:12I'm splitting it into part one and part two, so you can better listen to it, so you can break up the listening. You can follow her on Instagram at the Christina P, that's Christina with a C, or on Twitter at Christina P. You can go to her website, Christina P. Online. She regularly performs here in Austin at the Comedy Mothership, among many other shows. You can see her first one-hour special, Christina P. Mother Inferior came out in 2017. Then she did one called The Degenerates, which was shot in Las Vegas. You can also see that on Netflix. And then her newest special, Mom Jeans, which came out in 2022, is awesome.

5:54And you can check that out on Netflix. Also, you can listen to her podcast, Where My Mom's At, anywhere podcasts are found. You can check out your mom's house everywhere. You've probably seen it on TikTok and Instagram. The clips are very, very viral because they're always funny. And for now, you can listen to me and Christina P. talking philosophy, parenting, life, creativity. And whether it's possible for the Stoics to be funny, I say yes. And here we go.

6:36I can't imagine there's many comedians that have studied philosophy at Oxford. Have you run into any other ones? Nobody's stupid enough to do that. What idiot gets a degree in philosophy? You fucking moron. What drew you to it? Well, I'll tell you, I, you know, I was a very depressive teenager. A lot of anxiety at 13. I had my existential crisis at 13. I realized my parents were fucking worthless. and I was like, I got to raise myself. Yeah. But thankfully I had a bitchin' pair of tits so I could buy cigarettes at 13 years old. So my life was complete as long as I could smoke cigarettes. And anyway, I had really dark thoughts.

7:15And then I studied philosophy as a freshman. I had my first class and I was like, oh my God. In high school or college? College. Okay, where'd you go? I barely eked through high school. I mean, I don't even think I broke a thousand on my SATs. I couldn't study at home. It was a mess. I get into college just by the skin of my teeth. I went to the University of San Francisco. And I got in on academic probation, like such a loser, barely getting into college. And I'm in great philosophical questions. And this brilliant man, Dr. Mankus, rest in peace, he's dead now. But he gave me Heidegger's What is Called Thinking, not me, the whole class.

7:49And it was this idea that there's a layer to thinking, what is called thinking, not just thinking, what am I going to eat? Am I going to take a shit? Are we going to have popsicles? Are we going to screw? But like thinking. And my brain fucking lit up. And I was like, this is what I've been waiting for. Answers to the universe. This is it. This is it. And then I just, I was obsessed. I was obsessed. Yeah. And then it taught me how to be, how to think, how to be free. Like Sartre says, the existence precedes essence. I can define my future. I can think for my future. And this is one thing I want to teach my kids.

8:20It's not about what am I going to learn in school, even though that's important. I believe in learning stuff. But to form your life actively, nobody fucking tells you that. Nobody told me like, hey, if you don't plan your life, life will run you over, man. You need a plan, homie. Get into it. And the one good thing about philosophy degree, which I would say if you're for anybody thinking about getting one, is that it teaches you to think clearly and to speak clearly. And I know so many dumb motherfuckers in this world who can't even think. I mean it. And I'm fucking bored when I talk to 90%. I love you because I think you're just brilliant.

8:54My eyes glaze over because I'm like, Jesus, I know where this is. I know what you're going to say. And not that I'm so brilliant, but I think about dumb things. This is what I love doing. Yeah. And I get very frustrated. You just picked that up from the internet. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You're just repeating something you heard someone else say. That's what Jordan Peterson said yesterday on Instagram, you fuck. I know that guy. Yeah, yeah. But I also feel my brain dissolving after having two kids. But what was really great about philosophy, it teaches you how to think. It teaches you how to write.

9:23It teaches you how to analyze reality. And it really got me out of the matrix of how women are supposed to be and stuff, too. That was another one. I was like, oh, wait, this is bullshit. Like, oh, none of this fucking bad. Like, yeah, like I always laugh when people blame society and society tells women. It's like, do they? Is there a mandate? Is there a rule? Like, you have to be a Kardashian. I understand that it's hard to not compare yourself when you're a young, impressionable girl. but it's like you can also go I don't need to do that I can be my own thing I can do my own thing things can be systemically fucked up and unfair and all that and then you and the Stoics would say still you control how you respond to that that doesn't mean that we shouldn't address the larger problem but the fact that the system is what it is doesn't uh absolve you the individual from the necessity of figuring out how to navigate it and not be corrupted or broken by.

10:23Or even thrive in it. So when I started comedy, there were no women. And I could have, and I'm from, I was broken by it. I was like, oh, there's no girls. I'm going to be the only girl at the comedy store. And then I went, I'm the only girl at the comedy store, like home alone, you know? And he's like, oh, I made my parents disappear. I made my parents disappear. And it was like the party moment where I was like, I'm the only one in the game. Great fuckers. Watch me run. Yeah. You don't like it? Suck my tits. I don't care. I don't like you. I don't care. You know, Dr. Drew's who introduced me to, same thing.

10:56I was in a philosophy, I was taking a class on Aristotle. It was like ethics in the meaning of life. Yeah. And I mean, Aristotle's great. And we did Aristotle and we did Camus. Wait, who taught your class? Dr. Drew? No, no, no. I went to Riverside and I was just taking a regular philosophy class with a philosophy professor who's interesting and I'm reading it. And then I went to this thing. I got invited because I was writing for the college newspaper. I got invited to this thing in Hollywood that Dr. Drew was speaking at. And so I asked him if he had a book recommendation. He recommended Epictetus.

11:28So that's how I ended up being introduced to the Stokes. And I was like, this is way better than what I'm learning in school. This is like actually usable shit from like real people in the real world as opposed to just abstract questions. And yeah, it just totally changed my mind. But what like, how did it, it grabbed you by the nuts? What was it? Do you remember? There's this passage in meditation that I think hit me, especially as a college kid. He just talks about like how hard it is to wake up in the morning. You know, like he's like, he literally goes, he's like, at dawn when you awake, And then he like interrupts himself and he goes, but it's warm under the covers.

12:06And he goes, is this what you were put here to do? You know, to huddle under the covers and be warm. And like, so he has this like dialogue with himself about getting out of bed in the morning. And that's not what we think of philosophy as being. Philosophy is like, how do you know if you have free will? Or, you know, like it's questions that are interesting, but it's not like, let me help you get out of bed early. You know, I just, I fucking loved that. And it's so readable and accessible. Especially the Greeks. It's the Stoics. Yes. Yeah, the Stoics especially. And it's because Mark Surrealis was writing to himself.

12:42And so it feels like he's writing to you. He's not writing to the audience. Wow. He's writing to you. And there's a parallel to comedy there in that the most specific comedy is the most universal. Yeah. And so here you have a philosophy text that wasn't written as a philosophy text. It's notes in a diary that somehow becomes the most universal and, you know, sort of memorable of philosophy texts. Yeah. Because he wasn't thinking of you. He was trying to be honest with himself. So there's no, it's totally stripped down. There's no performative element in it. There's no artifice. It's just him talking to himself.

13:24yeah because once you get self-conscious it gets no it gets inauthentic yeah once you start thinking about the audience too much like there's a certain level you have to where you're like i have to explain this premise properly i have to yeah like they're gonna tell you if it's working or not really the laughter but yeah are we rolling on this ish okay okay we can cut some just start we can cut off your eyes are a little puffy hold on i gotta put on my glasses i had some filler done in LA when I was there and it's still a little puffy. Sorry, I'm not doing this to be insane. I just look crazy.

13:58My eyes are too puffy. Listen, I know your wife is fun. Okay. You're used to insanity. Look, I wore all my Chanel for you, my love. I'm so pumped. Can I tell you something? Yes. Ryan Holiday, I never really do other people's podcasts. Really? No, but I love you and I love what you're doing and I believe it's intrinsically valuable as the philosopher per se. Yeah. It's a service to humanity. And I like, I hate making chit chat. Yes. And I think it's so important to have real conversations about things that matter. Well, yeah, if you do your own podcast, you're not super excited to then just go do another one.

14:30It's usually like, I talk fucking enough. Can I curse on this show? Of course. Oh, fuck yeah, dude. Yeah. Wondery lets you curse. Yes. Although I often do get angry messages from regular people about it. Really? Yeah. I'm like a California person, so I say like and I curse and stuff. And people think it's not professional or whatever. But I can't turn it off. I can't turn it off either because I listen back to one of my shows and be like, oh, I wish I hadn't F-bombed so much. Yes. Because what if there are kids in the car or something and then, I don't know. When I wrote The Daily Stoic, my editor asked me to remove cursing.

15:05She was like, look, I think we can really sell this in like religious stores. And if you curse, you won't be able to. And I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot. and we sold zero copies in any religious stores. And now I wish I could go back and put some of my cruises in it. Well, right. You know, that's interesting you say that because like as a creative person, the initial thing is like I want the most amount of people to like me. And then you're like, they're not going to give that up. Yeah, they don't like you anyway. Stop it. You're not going to appeal to that person that's just not into you, right?

15:31It's not going to fucking happen. Most of the few things that I regret about stuff that I've done, it's never that I went too far. it's always that I pulled my punch because I was concerned what a certain audience was going to think and those people ended up not liking it for other reasons or that I didn't, that I even existed at all was upsetting to them so like I didn't get the credit that I thought I was going to get. Yeah, well and too like I will write bits that I'm like oh yeah I'm going to get cancelled on this one and I'm almost excited when it airs I'm like ooh Netflix it's going to be juicy and no one cares and it's the innocuous throwaway line or just something you're not even thinking about, the Twitter will blow you up for and you're like, okay.

16:14Yeah. So you can't predict what anybody's going to like or dislike. No. And, uh, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's better just to do what you think you want to do and not care about what other people are thinking. Yeah, I agree. And that gets easier the older I get, the less shits I give. Oh, what's that? Not giving a fuck book. What's his name? The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Mark, he's great. Yeah. Well, I think people think about the last part of the title, like not giving a fuck, but like actually the weight in that title is the subtle art because it's like there's some stuff you should give a fuck about and other stuff that you shouldn't care about at all.

16:52It's really knowing the difference that is the whole thing. Or as he says, where to put your fucks. Yes. Which is essential because I do think, and I think the lovely part of having children is it whittles down a lot of time. Time to think, time to be idle, and time to give a fuck about things that aren't crucial. Yes. Especially when your children are very, very young and you start to go like, oh yeah, why did I? Oh my God, I cared about so many things. Well, I really like Tom's bit about not having time to argue with people once you have kids because who gives a shit? Yeah, you're right. Fine, great.

17:26Yeah. Yes. Because you argue all day with small children. Well, that's why I think so funny about Elon Musk. This dude has 10 kids. He's the richest person in the world. He's running like eight companies. And he wakes up and he just argues with random people on the internet. Like he's retweeting like cat turd too or whatever. Like these are the people that he's having conversations. That's a real account. Yeah. Oh, it is? Yes. That's a good one. Yes, it's his alt-right stupid account. But the point is like, don't you have like a lot going on? Like how do you have time for this shit? So, okay. So I have friends who are deeply successful, deeply time constrained men, and yet they get into these, did you see that thread on Reddit?

18:07Did you see? And I think it's because it's a lovely place to displace your anger, right? Like either it's road rage or it's like getting mad about something somebody said on Twitter. It's a safe place to display rage because you guys can't fight in each other anymore. You can't like go into a ring and fight lions or whatever the hell as the Greeks did. Yes. So now you guys have to duke it out in a safe space. Is that maybe it? Because women, women in general, are we not, are we doing this stuff? I don't know. Yeah. Maybe your interactions are with actual people. Like, can you believe so-and-so said, like it's about real people that you actually know.

18:41Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. As opposed to just like tweeting 50 ,000 times a day. Yes. We like to do it. Snip, snippety snips behind closed doors. Oh my God. Coffee. Well, it's like there's the group chat and then there's the one. Yes. Then two people jump off to talk about what someone just talked about in the group chat. I love that. I do too. Yeah. But I think also it's people are looking for any distraction from having to be in their actual lives. Of course. Like if you were actually spending time with your 10 kids, you would never open Twitter. You know what I mean? Or if you were running just one of the companies, you know?

19:19I know. That's so true if you were really engaged. because people always say, oh, you know, your children, they grow up so fast. I'm like, well, you're not spending enough time with your kids. Yeah. Because if you're really there, if you're really there every day, like, yes, I understand time is a construct and you feel slower, it feels faster, but it feels about where it should be for me. Yeah, we spend so much time with them. It's like, what? No, like I talk to people and they're like, oh, yeah. Like I was talking to this person I knew and they told me how they saw like Top Gun like three times in the theater.

19:50I was like, what? You have a two-year-old. Like, what? You know? Or my favorite, I love TikTok. It's where I get all my news and information from. And I love the people that are into the lifestyle, swinging and polyamory. Oh, polyamory, sure. Because you're like, who's got this much time to be invested in their orgasms and in their genitals? Like, if just really, like, you're an adult. If you're in your 20s, I got it. That's fine. Sure. But you have, like, adult responsibilities. you're building a career you're putting books in the in the wall and you're like who am i gonna f with my wife who are we gonna hot wife tonight it's it's absurd yeah yeah how do you have time for this how do you do that some of them also have kids so you're like what i know it's crazy i know yeah could you imagine and you kids find out oh my god that's super weird also i would well we were it's actually samantha and i were talking about someone about swinging i thought you were gonna say we were talking about swinging um we're talking about so at the time no we're talking about someone who's very into that and we were like you know what the worst part about it is it's not that they do it the worst part is it's that clearly part of it is that they need us to know that they're that that is the crux and that's the crux is the i think that's why like this identity politic thing if that's what we're calling it i'm not i'm i'm an able-bodied non-binary semi-gluten-free lesbian whatever and it's like a good for you yeah be if it's fluid you're just going to change the shit tomorrow so i don't want to have to learn all your things today sure and see nobody gives a shit yeah nobody truly cares about your fucking who you're banging what gives you an orgasm i don't want to know at dinner yeah i don't care right no deeply and and uh you could just not only crazy if it's so great just enjoy it you know what i mean like you don't need to like convert anyone to it just bang well like today i was reading um there's a comedian that came out, he was living as a straight man and he's like, I am now pansexual.

21:53Wayne Brady. Right. He seems like a nice guy. A lovely man. Yeah. So let's take him out of the equation. But I think the idea of taking out a press release. What is pansexual? Is that where you're attracted to everyone? You're horny. You're just anything. So like most people.

22:10Yeah. I'm horny, guys. Taking out a press release. I want to bang. Yeah. Like, why do the – and he has kids and stuff too. It's like, okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Now we're just going to text about you and make fun of you, you know? Yeah. No, it is – it's a time thing and then who decides to make this like their entire identity – the polyamory thing is nuts. Polyamory. So complicated. It's just shut the fuck up. Live your life. You haven't figured anything out. The problem with poly is they're like – so we're introducing a third into our pod and it's all about communication.

22:44So you have to talk about your feelings and then talk about your feelings that you've had in the feelings. And you're like, Jesus, all this talking, just so that you can squeeze another person's titty. Yeah. How much better could it be? It's really no diff. Yeah. I mean, sex is in the mind. And I think you learn that. It's funny. I was just talking to a comedian and he's like, I don't understand these men who, we were talking about somebody that had multiple children outside of his marriage. He was married for 40 years and acted like a normal person. But they had like a second family? Not a family.

23:15Just fathered, just had so many children. Sure. He Johnny Appleseeded. Yeah, yeah. And you're like - That's a fetish though, I think. Really? Yeah. It's like, I think people, they like the idea of reproducing. Ew. That's so narcissistic. Of course. It's bad enough you do it with your own two kids. But what was my point with that? I guess - Oh, he fathered all these kids. Just like the amount of anxiety and the amount of work for what? an orgasm is what my friend said. And I was like, God, that's so true. Like, what? But if you're not actually doing any of the work, you're just writing a check, which is what I think a lot of people are doing.

23:53Yeah. You know, then it's, you're not like, I've, I've been talking about this distinction between like having kids and being a parent. Oh my gosh. And I think a lot of people have kids, but then it doesn't change like their actual life in any significant way. Oh yeah. And so I think like, if you're, if you're just like someone who has kids, then deciding that actually your main pursuit is, you know, opening up your marriage or whatever. It doesn't really, it's not a serious impediment in any way because like you were already just doing whatever you wanted all the time anyway. Right, right, right.

24:26Exactly. But having children should be an impediment. Of course. In a major way. It's a huge responsibility. Yeah, it's a life. I was a workaholic before I had children and you, okay, let's talk about this. Yes. Let's talk about, let's talk some shit. But the women's movement taught me that I could have everything, right? I could have the career. I could have my children. And it's all good. It'll work out. Okay. Well, so my husband and I were on the same career path. Yeah. Okay. We have children. Well, who's going to stay home? Yeah. Right. This guy. Yeah. Who's going to breastfeed and take the kid?

25:04And so there's an ethical duty. There's an imperative. One of you has to raise these kids. So I could go on with my career full throttle. Sure. Sure, I could be a Supreme Court judge or whatever. The women can do anything. Okay, but who's going to raise the kids? And I know that's such a crazy antiquated idea. Like, oh, women, just go back to work. Like that, what's that? Sheryl Sandberg, was that her name? Lean in. Yeah. Lean in. You fucking, first of all, okay, I guess some women have to lean in. Maybe they're the breadwinners. Sure. I understand it. But as a mother, as a human being, I don't know how you do it.

25:40I don't know how.

25:50I'm picking my kids up from school today and then doing our weekly routine, which is I take them over to Whole Foods. We get all our groceries for the week. Then we have dinner. It's one of their favorite things to do. It's one of my favorite things to do. And then my wife loves it because she doesn't have to take care of it. This holiday season, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner, Whole Foods Market has what you need to delight everyone at your table. They even have heat and eat sides from the prepared foods department. You can make Whole Foods your one stop shop. Everything follows Whole Foods Market's strict ingredients standards.

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27:07well I think it's also I think it's also true for men or it should be true for men too like people talk about work-life balance but what they're actually talking about is trade-offs like you can't have you can't have one thing without the cost of another thing there's an opportunity cost everything so if you decide you're going to do this thing and you're going to be good at it um it requires sacrifices um and this guy's name is Austin Cleon he lives in in Texas. He's great. He wrote this book, Steal Like an Artist. Oh, yeah. I love that. Yeah. His thing is work, family, scene, pick two. Work, sorry, work?

27:43Work, family, and then like the scene, like the hangouts. Polyamory. He's like, pick two. You can pick two. Right. You can either swing. Right. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yes, I agree. And so, yeah, there's like lots of cool perks that come with my job. Like I get offered to do shit And it's just like sort of not even a question about whether I'm going to say yes or no, because like I already said yes to this other thing. Now, I guess in some relationships, the dude says yes to everything and then somebody else picks up that slack. Yes. That seems kind of shitty to me. Oh, oh, sorry. This guy. No, but on the other hand, our career is a little show business.

28:20There's a very finite window. So just don't get me wrong. I'm very happy my husband's making the bulk of the money. That's who should right now. He's very funny too. Yeah. But there's trade-offs. There's 100%. And you have to choose which one you will take. And I think with children, I've heard this great saying that it's pay now or pay later with children. You invest at the top or you pay the price later in adolescence and adulthood. And I'd rather be there. I just can't. But then again, my parents, I know I also overcorrect. I've been told my therapist tells me I'm, I overcorrect because my parents were so boomer self into themselves and into their polyamory.

29:00They weren't polyamorous. But you know what I mean. So now I'm trying to figure it out, honestly. And I don't malign anybody for choosing their career. That's not true. I secretly judge. I definitely don't judge when there's no choice. I agree. You know what I mean? At some level, it's kind of a champagne discussion. What does that mean? You know what a champagne problem is? No. A champagne problem is like, do you want this champagne or that champagne? It's a rich white people problem. Oh, sorry. Yes, you're absolutely right. Yes. This is a good problem to have. 100%. You know, it's like, am I spending too much time with them?

29:33You know, when other people are like, I'm not sure I can pay the power bill. You know, like that's a different discussion. Yes. But when it's a choice, then you can be judged for the choice, I think. Yeah. But then there are women that are like surgeons and stuff. And how the hell, you don't, okay, that's it. You're a surgeon. You can't lean out of that. Can you dip out of surgeon-ing for a decade? Yeah. You can? Sure, probably not. Probably not. Right. Well, anyway, you choose your battles. You choose your heart, as your trainer says too, right? Yes. Choose your heart. No, it's true. Do you have a trainer?

30:10But I think there is this – because you can basically do anything and you're not supposed to judge people for doing stuff. Oh, right. People do get very caught up in just sort of basically what the philosophers just call sort of the pursuit of empty pleasure as though that that's where meaning and happiness comes from. And it's not. Well, let's define empty pleasure because this is an interesting discussion, distinction to make because I've also developed an appreciation for the atelic, atelic events. Okay. So like there's teleological stuff that you do for an end. Yes. And then the atylic is like just sitting down and watching the leaves blow.

30:52Sure. And you're like, that's kind of rad, dude. I really developed a real love of atylic activities. But is that the same as what you were saying? No, no, no. I mean, I think that's funny, right? Like the word Epicurean, people think means sort of the pursuit of pleasure and like to the point of hedonism. So you go like, oh, this person's polyamorous. They're Epicurean, right? You say that. But actually, like when you read Epicurus, he's like, wow, what a delightful cup of water, you know, or he's like, look at the leaves falling. You were just saying he's he's getting excited about very basic pleasures.

31:28Right. He's not like chasing fine foods or the fanciest, you know, establishments or the, you know, he's not participating in orgies or something like he's these are really basic pleasures. So I think those are available and accessible to anyone at any time. But people get really caught up in, you know, like even Seneca writes about how it's like people travel from place to place. He says like someone flipping over their pillow trying to fall asleep. Wow. You know, you're just like, well, maybe it'll be better. And it doesn't make no difference at all. It's totally in your head. No. And so I just know people who are like, I really want to find someone.

32:10I want to really be happy. And then it's like, so stay in one fucking place for like a week. You know what I mean? This isn't like, stop breaking up with people, you know, like six months into the relationship every time. Like life is about settling is the wrong word, but it's about making decisions and sticking with things. Right. You choose it and then you stay the course and in those struggles of the course is where you find, I don't even say happiness, some momentary glimpses, but really contentment, long-term fulfillment and contentment. I always loved Martin Heidegger, who loved the Greeks.

32:47The meaning of being is located in care, care. And I love this idea of where we lend our attention to, we lend our care to. It's a really cool word, like you lend your care to. And that is where you find the meaning of being, of living, is in care. Like, oh shit. So what I focused my attention on is really what's going to matter. It's not always going to be pleasurable. He didn't go into all that stuff with the Greeks are talking about, but yeah. And then also what you said reminded me of like, remember those old hippies like Ram Dass and they're always like, it's be here now. And then it's, that was saying that was like, wherever you go, there you are.

33:24Yes. Wherever you go there. And I never understood it until I got much older. And I was like, yeah, you're still going to have all this madness. It's all here. You may as well work it out with the same person that you trust in this circumstance that you've built that you kind of, right, jive with. In Lady Bird, the nun says something like that. She goes like, isn't that what love is, paying attention? It's like what you spend your time. Someone said that to me once. They said, you know, love is spelled T-I-M-E. And so it's like, you say you're doing it for your family, but like what does your calendar look like?

34:01Yeah. Or you say you love your work, but like how much time are you actually spending on it? Yeah. Well, I know so many, I mean, especially when you're a creative person, it's so difficult, excuse me, to start that process of being a 20 something or a 30 something or whatever. And you're like, I think I want to be a singer, a comedian, a dancer, whatever. And it is a Herculean thing to get over the fear and the hump of that. And then the discipline of sitting down and doing that activity to get better at it and get better at it. Like The War of Art is my favorite book. It's incredible. I know you discussed that one too.

34:37You're a huge fan. There's a reason like that. It's the discipline. And in that disciplining yourself is where the fulfillment. Yeah, the resistance. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's the procrastination is hard. And then also the putting, I think an underrated part of it is like the willingness to put yourself out there. Oh, that's terrible. That's terrible. That's a whole other fucking discussion, man. Yeah. Just like you have to be bad in public for a while is so, it's why it's good to start when you're young. Yeah. Because you have less shame or maybe a little more narcissism, a little more ego. It would be hard to start something that I'm embarrassingly bad at in public right now.

35:20Oh my God. Well, I was just, I literally, when you were saying that, was thinking to like my first five years in stand-up. Yeah. And how grateful I am to have grown up in a non-social media. Yeah, you weren't like, here's my clip. Yeah. Or just like, yeah, or like someone else puts the clip up. Sure. I would be, like, I'm not one who saves all my old videos, my old stand-up. Like, I don't want to see it ever again. Yeah. I hate what I did last week. I hate what I did last year. Sure. But the, you know, I always think about the Beatles too. they did their 10 ,000 hours what is it in Germany in that bar yeah and imagine I always think imagine if YouTube had existed back then and the Beatles started their first they're on hour 20 of the 10 ,000 and they're like look at my new band mate and all the comments are like you guys suck the Beatles are shit and the Beatles probably would have been like I can't do this this is garbage give up yeah what if they gave up because of public opinion Ira Glass called it he said there's a taste talent gap So like you get interested in music or art or comedy or, you know, anything, right?

36:31Sports, you love the thing, right? So you know who all the best people are, you know what all the best work is, right? And then you suck. And so, and you have, but you have good taste. You have a sense of what's good and what you're trying to do. And you are not physically, emotionally, like creatively capable of getting anywhere close to that thing. So one of the necessary skills or traits to get to mastery is the ability to live with that chasm to like keep going, even though you're like every day, what you're expressing is not even good by your own standards. No. And you're probably poor because Tom and I were broke for a decade.

37:18Like, I mean, pure, Like I won't, I still won't shop at Trader Joe's because we lived off of Trader Joe's for like a decade. It was misery. Yeah. And to deal with like the stress of the external world, the internal world, and to hang in there. And also the court of public opinion too. Sometimes club owners tell you you suck. Sometimes other comics tell you you suck. And to be like, no, I'm going to stick to this. One day I will be good. One day I will be good. But don't you think that's why ego is so common in most of the creative profession? Because early on, ego can be adaptive, right? Because the delusion allows you to keep going.

37:55For sure. So if you're talented but egotistical, you can sort of push through what would make a more self-aware person just want to kill themselves. Of course. Yeah, the delusion. Then you get good, but now that ego thinks you're still better than you actually are and you're a dick and you think the world revolves around you and you end up destroying what you've built because you're an egomaniac. Right. That's the famous level. Yes. And I've seen that happen so many times. That usually happens in comedians who get famous too quickly and their talent doesn't match their level of fame. Yeah. Now, thankfully, most of the time, comedy is a excruciatingly slow grind that takes about 15 years to get good, great, good-ish, 20 years you've made it.

38:43And if you haven't, something is amiss in your life. Yeah. Usually the cream rises to the top in our business. But, yeah, thankfully it's that slowness of fame and that being poor and suffering for so long that you usually won't want to sabotage your success. I mean, if you look at a guy like Joe Rogan, who's been doing it for, what, 30, 40 years now, he had the slow, steady rise. And my husband and, you know, yeah, it's the ones that get it too easy. It's too cheap. Yeah, I think I started my first website in 2005 and my first book came out in 2012. And that was fast. That was fast. You know what I mean?

39:23Nobody gets to write a book when they're 25 or 26. No. Like I was very, like, that was lucky. And then, you know, they didn't really start selling until several years after that. And so, you know, it took a while. It took a long time. Like, it took a long time. And then you talk to people and they're like, I'm thinking about writing a book. And you're like, have you written literally anything else anywhere to any public audience? And the answer is no. It's like, you don't start, you know, at the World Series. No. And I love this thought of what you said, like, well, what makes you hang in there?

39:54Yeah. Some of it is ego, but then the other bit is, for at least comedy, passion. I have to really like it. A blinding, you have to be obsessed with stand-up. And I am obsessed. I still am. I love comedy. I love joke. I love failure. Now I'm on the other end of stand-up where I'm actually making a living and whatever, moving tickets. Great. It happened. Praise Allah. I can't believe it. so now actually is the fun where i go i'm competent and now let's flounder like i'm working out this new bit i want to make fun of this really touchy subject how am i gonna do it and now i'm working it out and i actually enjoy that rockiness of like oh i gotta solve this problem it doesn't destroy me as it used to because it used to like really cut into me like oh my god i'm not funny i suck i should quit now you just kind of go like yeah i should quit no i and just keep going.

40:47Because you build a resilience to failure, a tolerance for failure. People talk about like, they go, trust the process, right? Yeah. And it's only actually, like that's very hard to do if you haven't experienced the process. So like the first time I wrote a book, right? You're starting at zero and then you're hoping you get to the end and then it comes out and it works. But you have no idea like what's between these two points. Then the second book, you have some sense. You're like, okay, it's hard for a while. But now I've done it so many times that I get excited about starting a new book because I not only get excited about the process of starting, like starting fresh, getting to do it again, but I don't get that discouraged throughout the process because I'm like, there's always the point where you think it's not going to work.

41:31There's always the point where you hate yourself. You know, there's always the point where you get distracted. You know, you start thinking about other stuff. Like I know all the sort of peaks and valleys of the process. So I can be like, yeah, if I just keep showing up every day, eventually I'll get there. Yes. And also, because I was listening to you talk about that on a prior episode of just showing up every day. Same with stand-up. Like the reason people are like, why did comics get paid so much? They're just telling jokes. It's like, yeah, well, if you're selling tickets and people have paid and committed to coming to see you and your dog died that day.

42:06Yeah. you're still going to have to go up and be funny. You find out your mom's diagnosed with cancer. Guess what, bitch? You're telling jokes that night because that's show business. So the ability to be funny on command, and that comes from this tolerance that you're talking about of failure. But anyway, that's fucking gnarly, dude. The self-loathing. Oh, and showing up. Sorry, that's what I'm saying. The showing upness. But some days suck so bad creatively, and you're in your head and you hate everything and you hate yourself. And I think some days I'll just be like, I can't, I can't, I shouldn't even touch this.

42:41I'm poison. That's like an extra level of mastery because early on, if you listen to that excuse, like I'm not feeling it today. Yeah, then go. And then you never do it, right? Because you never feel it. And then you get a little bit older and more experienced the way that an athlete goes, my knee's feeling a little weird today. I don't want to blow out my knee. So I'm not going to push this. I'm going to go rehab or I'm going to do this other thing and watch film instead. So the, it's like at the beginning, you have to cultivate this muscle of like, I force through anyway. Yes. And then older, I was actually just writing about this.

43:18The motto of the Royal Air Force is something like Ad Astra. It's Ad Astra is what it's shortened to, but the Latin motto is basically something like through adversity to the stars. And the writer, I had him on, his name is S.C. Gwynn. He's this amazing Texas writer. He was talking about how, yes, that's like obviously how you succeed. He's like, that's also how you like crash and die. And so you have to cultivate, you go like, we didn't pass the checklist today. We're going to send the plane back for repairs or the weather is looking a little, let's not do this. And so, yeah, as you get older and more experienced and better at it, knowing when to push and when to step back is its own.

44:02That's another part of the process. It's an art form too. There are some days where I'm like, I should not be texting people back. Today is the day I will not email back. I will not be returning your phone calls. Mommy needs to go out on the lake or whatever, look at my leaves or be with the kids or not be with the kids, sit alone in my weird book room and just get weird. You know, like, but that's also part of a creative process too because your brain is like sometimes solving or working through stuff. Don't you think like those dark days are kind of imperative to the creative days? Because after I have a dark spell, then like all the creative stuff comes out.

44:42As I've gone on my, I used to be like, okay, I got to write for a certain number of time, you know, time per day, or I got to get a certain number of pages per day. Or now I just go, I just try to make one positive contribution every day. So like today I literally changed one sentence in this book that I'm working on. And that, so like I succeeded, I showed up. I can't do that every day. Some days I need to do a lot more, but I just radically lower the bar to a level that I just do one thing. And so I'm always making a contribution. And who knows, that contribution might matter to someone or it adds up, but also just the idea of like, I'm going to make it low enough that I can never accept procrastination and then always feel like I'm creating momentum.

45:29I'm making progress. procrastination i've i've watched people very close to me really wreck their lives i'm talking lives on procrastination not just career stuff i'm talking like should we have a baby i don't know and there's a time limit things are very time limited you're not here forever yes there's The arrogance to procrastination. Ooh, let's talk about that. That's exciting. Well, the Stoics would say you're assuming that tomorrow is a given. Yes. But you could get hit by a bus. Oh, for sure. Yeah. The aliens could come tomorrow, our new overlords. Yeah. And that's that. Sure. It's a wrap.

46:16Or your window could close, like you're talking about, biologically or just career-wise. Oh, yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah, the trend could change. Anything. A lot of that stuff could happen. The economy could crash. Oh, yeah. That's why I loved the existentialists when I was in college, because they talk about that. Like, this is it, dude. This is not a drill. And I feel like the existentialists particularly were, I mean, they were European, French. So they saw two world wars real close together, and a lot of them died, and it was fucking horrible. And so I think that sort of hung over their sense of the world, which is crazy as things have been here, you know, the last decade or so.

47:01You really can't. It's still things that felt very stable and very comfortable and very nerfed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, COVID sucked. I'm not going to lie. But it wasn't the same as a world war. And my husband's really been into World War II right now. Yeah. He's watching all the – Yeah. Yeah. That's how you know you're a dad is when you're in the World War II. When your kids get you Costco books about World War II. The thickies. Yeah, the toilet reading. Dad toilet reading is like Hitler stuff. Yeah, that's real tragedy. That's real life. Your country is just shredded. Tragedy. Seneca's thing was the one thing all fools have in common is that they're always getting ready to start.

47:42Ooh. I've seen that too. I've seen that. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. I'll do it later. Or I'll do it after my kids grow up or I'll do it when I retire or I'll do it when I make a little more money. I'll do it when the economy, you know, or what people have been saying from COVID, when things go back to normal. Yeah. And they never follow up. Yeah. I'm trying to think because I remember dealing with procrastination in the beginning of my career too. And then something flipped. Maybe like I think because I saw the – oh, I think what it was is like you realize the process of like you write a half hour. You write an album, you write an hour.

48:19Like there's a project and you have to have your project completed. So now you have something to work towards versus just this infinite, I'm going to be a writer. Well, like, no, no, no, dude, start with like writing a short story. Maybe it just starts there and then go to like, just write. I know how daunting it must be to write a book. I can't even imagine like all these chapters, the table of contents. How do I, what do you, like, I don't even know where. You don't have to write the table of contents. They do that for you. Oh. Or like an outline? I don't know. I don't know where my mind's going to go unconsciously in this process.

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51:49What comedy has going for it that not many of the other arts do is that you can get your reps the easiest and it's the most built around getting your reps. Like I have to give a talk tomorrow and I haven't given one in six weeks. There's no way, there's no other talk. Like I can't, like, because in my line of work, basically all the gigs are corporate gigs. So I can't just go like do a warmup corporate gig. You know what I mean? Like I can't. Hey guys, thanks for coming. Yeah, I can just show up at some random business and go like, I want to talk to everyone. So like there, what's cool about comedy is not just that you're supposed to go up every night, but like you're supposed to go up multiple times a night in some places.

52:29So you're just like, you're always practicing. And even the best people are demonstrating the fact that like, you're all supposed to be practicing at a certain level. And there's this sort of equalizing effect of like someone who sells out stadiums and someone who's trying to, you know, make it are both performing at the same club for the same amount of time. On the same stage. I mean, even right now I'm working out a new hour and I do it very quietly here in Austin at the mothership. I'll do the small room. Yeah. And yeah, I love that part though. I mean, look, I don't know. That's, that is maybe one of the few art forms.

53:05Yeah. We're all comrades. We're all in the trenches together. And I've heard some of the biggest comedians you know of say the most self-deprecating behind closed doors. Oh my God, I'm the worst. I hate myself. And you're like, really? You hate yourself? If you hate yourself, then I'm, I'm golden. I can't believe that someone so hates themselves. Like, yeah, it's just getting over. this. Yeah. I think it looks effortless to the audience, but everything has been done hundreds of times, hundreds and hundreds of times. And the easier it looks, the better the person is that's doing it. It's like surfing.

53:40You're like, I should look so easy. Like, no, it's not. It's so hard to surf. Yeah. I was trying to think of what you were talking about during World War II. Oh, the existentialists. They saw the whole world just... dark oh but what was really what i loved about them and what changed my life and i think what's interesting about the stoics too is that it's really if you read them you're like oh it was did this guy like develop psychology and psychotherapy like independently yeah yo like the greeks had it figured out yeah the greeks really had it and then the french came along that fucking descartes and ruined everything and he was like actually how do we know we can't even trust our own minds.

54:19And everybody was like, dude, what are you doing? We have this shit figured out. And now every idiot's like, yeah, how can I trust this is a simulation? Like, okay, even if it is a simulation. What are you going to do with that information? Who cares? It still feels as real as the real. So like, fucking let's move on, Frenchie. But what I do love, Jean-Paul Sartre, is what he said is that existence precedes essence. Whereas prior, it was essence, right, it precedes existence, that this acorn is going to develop in a certain way no matter what. Like you're kind of predetermined, your essence. The Greeks were big into this stuff, the essence of whatever, animal, the essence, the soul, the anima.

55:00And then that determines everything else. But he flipped it and he was like, no, no, you can, you're not determined by your past. Just because you're in the shape of a woman doesn't mean you have to act like a woman or just because of your race or your whatever, you can be whatever the hell you want. And I was like, oh, you mean I'm not my crummy family? Like I'm not tethered to, I'm not doomed or cursed because of my upbringing or blah, blah, blah. It was very liberating. I've joked about this with Epictetus, who's the stoic who was a slave. Oh my God, Epictetus? I never even heard of this guy.

55:32Yeah. It's funny. He, even Epictetus never questions like the institution. Epictetus? Epictetus. Epic. Epictetus. That's how I say it. Other people say it differently, I guess. Oh, Titus, a potato, a potato. She's dead. Who cares? He's fucking dead. Yeah. But, and his name, his name just means acquired one. Like he doesn't even have an actual person's name. But he never questions slavery. Like he's like, here's how you make it work inside slavery. So I do think when I look at the Greeks and the Romans who I like a lot, one thing I always try to remind myself is that they had much less sense of agency or dynamism.

56:09Like even Mark Sturulus becomes emperor. He doesn't want to. He's just like, they made me the emperor, you know? Like he didn't go like, yeah, you know, you can, your dad doesn't like get a pick what you do. You know, like there was a sense then that like, you know, like if your dad does this, you do this. And if your family does this, you do this. And the idea that like you could start a company and, you know, create generational wealth. This was all incomprehensible to the Asians. So it's not until much later, you know, really probably the 1800s, 1900s, that the idea that like your life could be anything you wanted it to be, like there's no real philosophical understanding of that until kind of like post-war America.

56:52Right. And so I think we, that's a great invention. That's a great invention that you can do whatever you want. And that like society, race, gender, et cetera, it's all bullshit. Yes. Go where you want, live where you want, do how, do things how you want. That's a, that's not, the Romans didn't, the Romans were like, what? No, if you're born a slave, you're a slave. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Goddamn. And then did they really send them into the lions? Is that real? Send the Christians to the lions? Did they send the Christians? Well, I mean, yeah, people, the gladiators obviously fought in the arena and then later that was supposedly a punishment for the Christians.

57:30For the Christians, like these Christians are so annoying. Is that what it was? They were just annoying? No, it was just a way, it's like, how are we going to punish these criminals? And like, let's watch them fight in the - Which is so rad. I love their hedonic sense, right? Weren't they like effing a lot and puking and eating and puking? And then they had a real sense of hedoness. I'm sorry, I'd like to get a pen because then I forget my ideas. Oh, all right. Do you have a pen, mommy? Why were they like that? Is it because it was a pre-Christian society? I think so. There wasn't also a sense of like, I don't know, that every human being...

58:06It's important. We've made a lot of inventions that each person is, you know, deserves dignity and respect and equality. It's such a new idea. These are new ideas, you know? So new. People don't... I remember reading Hobbes and Locke. So what is that, 1800s? 1700s. Even before. Okay. So there are two couple of Brits and one is like, yeah, life, liberty, and property. That's where it starts. The pursuit of happiness, is that even - That's the Jefferson invention. Yeah. That's later on. So the origins of the American dream are like, you can own, you get life, liberty, and property. You should own stuff.

58:44Stuff is the most important shit. And then later we were Americans where it's like, all right, you can be happy. Like you should do what the fuck you want to do. Very recent in humanity. Totally. How interesting. Yeah. And even that, like, one of the things that's always like an interesting, it's like, how many offenses were punishable by death when they were writing this? And it's like, sneezing, punishable by death, you know, or whatever. So I think that I've always, this is a cancelable thing. Sure, let's do it. But like when you go like, how could they have slaves? And it's like, well, also like the punishment for like stealing a piece of bread was like, you know, death or slavery.

59:24So like, you know, man's inhumanity to man when everyone treats everyone shitty. Yeah. I think it was harder to go like, hey, I'm not going to treat someone shitty, you know? Of course. So there's just a general cruelty and heartlessness. I think it's important that we realize that that is contagious. And one of the reasons we developed politeness and manners and even like political correctness is that it matters. Like it's part of the elimination of violence and cruelty. As long as we're not canceling comedians for making jokes. I absolutely, that is my pet peeve. Don't come after us. That's nonsense.

1:00:00It's all meant to point out absurdities. Nobody's advocating hate. Shit, what did I say? Epictetus says, when you find yourself offended, remember you are complicit in taking offense. Ooh, ain't that the truth? And imagine the hubris. Is that the right word? To be like, I'm offended. Like, oh, you're so important. You're so important that you get to be offended by fucking what? Words. Good for you, shithead. oh yeah I was thinking of Foucault's Discipline and Punish did you ever read that one so Foucault I mean everyone I like Foucault because he's this like fun gay guy right French, obviously fun and he talks about how we became civilized this idea of the public scaffolds remember like back in the day what you're saying somebody stole a loaf of bread in the market who's going to watch them get drawn and quartered and then you'd bring your kids and your kids would they'd push the kids to the front Yeah, think about what that would do to your six-year-old to watch someone get chopped into four pieces.

1:01:03Oh, my God. Yeah. That's gnarly. And I'm even weary of him playing like Roblox if the game is too violent or whatever. Yeah, so you're watching people get violently punished. But the civilizing element is to put the punishment behind closed doors is what he says. Like, yes, we still murder people. We'll give the lethal injection, but it's behind closed doors. We're very civilized about how we kill now, which is lovely. can comedy be funny what sorry can philosophy be funny yeah there's some oh my god Nietzsche probably one of the funniest writers if you um yeah yeah read Nietzsche read his one-liners I'm trying to think of a there's one good one men love two things most danger and play and he loves women because she is the most dangerous of play things that's a good one it's not funny but it So it's just one that just came off.

1:01:54Yeah. And he hated women, which always makes me laugh too. But I think it's that he was so harmed and hurt by women. His own sister supposedly. It wasn't she like, I don't know if you know, but kept him hidden in bed or whatever. He was sickly. He had syphilis. He got syphilis from a hooker. And yeah, the French are really funny. Not the Germans, not so much. They're very strict, very stringent. I think that thing from Camus is funny where he's like, should I kill myself or have a cup of coffee? I love that shit That's fucking life Yeah Yeah Like It's such a perfect Existential question That's both brilliant And Like Commonplace Yes Do you know Like it's so high and low At the same time Oh yeah You know Dostoevsky I love Notes from Underground The opening to it He's like I'm an ugly man I'm a mean man Or whatever My teeth hurt And he likes to Poke the tooth that hurts because it gives him joy to hurt himself.

1:02:54And, you know, because you do that. Like you get a little boo-boo and you pick at it and there's something satisfying in that self-harm, that tiny bit of self-harm. Yeah, I like that too. Yeah, they're funny, but not all of them. Yeah, the English. No, you know who's really funny? Barkley. Wait, who wrote Why I'm Not a Christian? He was an English guy. He was really funny too. You know one of the stoves died of laughter? No. Yeah. Impossible. Yeah. His name was Chrysippus. And I ask every comedian that's interested in stoicism if they can explain it to me. So the idea is he's sitting on his porch and this donkey walks up into his front yard and it starts eating these figs out of his garden.

1:03:37And the person walks up and goes like, I'm so sorry. you know, and Chrysippus says, you should get your donkey some wine to wash down those figs. And then he starts laughing at his own joke. And he laughs so hard for so long that he dies. He's just like, so is it a, is it a, you had to be there joke? Is it something that I'm not understanding? Is it some philosophical lesson? But I love that he, like we think of the Stoics as being like dour and, and, you know, not fun. And here this dude literally laughs himself to death on his own joke that's not even funny. I think it's a cautionary tale for comedians.

1:04:18Like, don't want to laugh at your own material that hard. Maybe that's what it is. Like, it's so shameful. Like, I see it as shameful. I'm like, ew, don't laugh at your own joke that hard. Yeah. Or it's just like the things that make us laugh the hardest are never actually that funny. You know, like they're not these elaborate premise, you know, like multi-part, like high jokes. No. It's somebody points at something and that thing is funny or somebody farts or whatever. Farts the best. The most ridiculous things are the funniest. Of course. Like I, yeah. Okay. Well, what makes you laugh without fail?

1:05:00My kids. I mean, of course. Yeah. They're insane. Yeah. The one my wife and I laugh at all the time. we were sitting at this like this pool in my in-laws neighborhood and we're all sort of sitting around eating and my son walks up and and and he goes and he throws this thing on the table and he goes is this the dead bird that you were talking about and it was a dead bird that he picked up off the ground and to this day we can't were you talking about it yeah we were not talking about a dead bird we don't know why he picked up the dead bird and he said it was such like i found the thing you're looking for you know just they're just like if i had died laughing in that moment i would i think i would have i would have understood what chrysippus is going yeah yeah it's so absurd the absurdity of that and it tickled you in such a way because you're like i wasn't talking about well like what was what was your reaction was it i'm like what is happening what first off it's like shit you just touched a dead bird you put it on the table we're eating now i have to like sanitize your entire body.

1:05:56And also, are you a psychopath? Did you kill this bird? Yeah, that's always the worrisome thing. There's a bunch of things. Yeah. But just the, what? They're so mentally ill. Small children, they act like crazy people. Yeah, it's so funny to me. You know what? This is so horrible, and I'm totally going to get canceled for this too. But if you've ever watched your mom's house, it's like, it's always a stream. We call them cool guys of weirdos, of people that are, I call them outliers, the, you know, the marginalized community on TikTok, the weirdbeards. Those people make me laugh so hard. Like, God, this is so inappropriate.

1:06:37You're probably just going to cut this out. But there was this one girl, she was doing vlogs to Hitler on YouTube. She'd be like, hey, Hitler. so nathaniel says we're like we want to vlog nandler sorry that's so funny that made me laugh for years like that kind of stuff but not the but i'm bumped very very rarely there's a few that stick out in my head yeah like david tell is a great joke writer like david tell will make me laugh for years you think of a line you're like god that was so funny yes do you watch tiktoks I'm obsessed. I only watch Instagram reels of TikToks. Oh, why aren't you on the pure thing?

1:07:17I don't know. I'm afraid of it. Get there. I'm afraid that once I start, I won't be able to stop. Yes. Because it's so addicting and the algorithm is so good. And like Sam will sometimes just have to come by and just go, thank you so much. Just unplugged you from the matrix. Yes. TikTok, here's, okay. So here's why it's valuable to society. I agree. I don't care for like the dances none of that stuff interests me but like during the pandemic I would go on TikTok and people would be like in Queens, Brooklyn Queens, New York, people would be like oh my god these are the bodies right now being dragged into an ambulance I know I'm sorry to do the voice but you're like oh my god this is a real pandemic when stuff happens in the world I go to TikTok because that's just the average person going hey this is happening versus like CNN or Fox News, which I mean, I don't know.

1:08:11Does anybody even trust? I don't know anyone that watches television news that isn't like a million years old.

1:08:21It's like people who are watching sitcoms on like NBC. Yeah, like tuning in for an all new episode of This Is Us or what? I guess I'm watching this. It's awful. I know. I listened to this interview with the head of Viacom or something, maybe it's Paramount, whatever the one that does the TV is. And they were talking about, the person was like, why do you just air like 13 episodes of ridiculousness in a row? The Rob Dyrdek show, who I know I've had on the show. I love Rob. He's great. But he was like, because the people who care about what they watch are not turning on TV. So he's just like, what happens is basically like somebody turns on MTV and then they just don't turn it off.

1:09:08And they don't seem to change the channel when ridiculousness is on. So we just pack the whole day with that. And yeah, you just realize there's different levels of consuming stuff. And the worst thing you can do for your brain is watch the actual news. Oh, I think so. I think reading the news is okay. But I think anyone that is getting their news from television is just rotting their brain. Yes. First of all, let's point out there is some value in background TV. I like Netflix. Sometimes I'll be so brain dead that I'll be like, what's the dumbest thing I can put on? I'll watch Mean Girls. I like Mean Girls.

1:09:43It's a great movie. Just have it on the background so I can text to people. But yeah, I agree. Because the news is mostly hysteria-based. It's the language and the tonality. It's intended to create hysteria. Whereas if you watch the news, like I actually, when the shit hits the fan on something, I'll download Al Jazeera on my iPhone and see what those folks are saying. I'll be like, oh, this is clearly. When I'm at like the airport, you know, like CNN has a deal with most major airports and they pay for CNN to be on in the airport. There's a special version of CNN. What? Yeah, it's like airport CNN.

1:10:18And so, for instance, like they never show airplane crashes. There's like certain things that it's – Makes sense. Right. But the idea is like if you catch it, if like that's running, you will not be able to turn away. Even if there's no sound, you just – so like when I'm at the airport, I have to like physically turn away. That's how much I don't watch the news. Like this Orwellian TV like that just can see you wherever you are. And then you just see something to be out. And like I see it like when you turn on the commentary shows on ESPN. Oh, God. You see the formula that they're doing, and it's so laughably stupid that you realize that that's also what the news, it's like, is LeBron James the worst basketball player of all time?

1:11:00You're like, what? What? Are people discussing that? And then like, yeah, they talked about it for an hour because it's so aggravating. And it requires a straight man. It requires Stephen A. Smith to be like, yeah, I have strong thoughts on this. And so like, that's the whole thing. They need, it's like professional wrestling is basically what you're watching. So like what I find like something's happening with a pandemic is that I want to read a book about a different pandemic from like a hundred years ago. A hundred percent. Oh, okay. I get the broad strokes. So now when I get like current information, I know where it slots in to the general framework of like how humans respond to stuff.

1:11:42Brilliant. Because Dr. Drew during the pandemic was like, you have to read this book. What is it like? The Hysteria of the Masses. or something of the masses. It's about like how that, the dissemination of information lends to hysteria and what happens and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh yeah, it all just repeats. We're all, history's on a loop. Yes. And yeah, it is. And people respond the same way. The same way. Like, wait a minute, we've never had this happen. Like, actually we have. Yeah, literally exactly 100 years ago, the exact same thing happened. Well, even now with, and I think it's calming down, but even with, you know, the monitoring of people's language, the cancel culture, the monitoring and the canceling.

1:12:21You didn't like what that person said in 2008 on Twitter? Uh-oh. I mean, this is how it ramped up to communism. I don't know. My dad's always telling me about that because he grew up in Hungary and he's like, this is how it starts. I remember when Michael Richards got canceled for dropping the N-bomb at the Laugh Factory, which obviously I don't agree with. Yeah, didn't he just scream the N-word like a lot of times at a black person for no reason? Just one. Yeah. But I remember that, you know, the outrage and my dad was like, oh, here we go. Another cycle of this stuff once it starts happening.

1:12:55I was like, yeah. But anyway, and then Trump happened. That was weird. I don't know what's going to happen now. When the aliens land in 2026, I think it is. When are they landing? Will any of it matter?

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