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The Daily Stoic

9 Mar 2025 · 18m

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Do THIS to Handle Chaos

In short

In this episode, Ryan Holiday discusses George Raveling's philosophy on navigating chaos and uncertainty in life. Drawing from Raveling's vast experiences in sports and beyond, the conversation emphasizes transforming life's challenges into opportunities for growth.

Main points

  • Ryan Holiday: Host, author, and speaker known for his work on Stoicism.
  • George Raveling: Former basketball coach and Nike executive, sharing life lessons and insights from his remarkable journey.

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Transcript

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0:00I'm recording this on a Monday, and Monday is our grocery store day in our family. I usually pick my kids up from school and we go over to Whole Foods, get all our groceries for the week. Although here very shortly, we're going to go over there to get our Thanksgiving turkey because they've got a bunch of great options. Turkeys start at$149 a pound if you have Prime with organic birds at$299 a pound. And they only carry no antibiotic ever turkeys that will bring quality to your table at a great price. Whole Foods has great everyday prices on all your Thanksgiving essentials, whether you celebrate with a massive family or just a few close friends.

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1:20Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

1:59Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another Sunday episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. Seneca has a thing about how, you know, what you want is not a large number of years at the end of your life, but you want something to show for it. And he said, this is a tragic thing that a lot of people have but a number at the end. And one of the most incredible people that I have met in my life has both a large number of years, as I said, but also just one of the most unreal life stories that I have ever encountered. And I am enthralled by it. And I've been asking him questions about it since I met him about a decade ago.

2:40And so about a year and a half ago, his son called me and said, hey, my dad's getting up there in years. I know you guys go way back. Do you think anyone would be interested in doing a book about her for my dad. And I was like, Mark, this is son's name is Mark. I was like, Mark, I am pretty sure someone would be interested. And I called my publisher. And like a week later, George had a book deal. And it's sort of the cherry on top of an incredible life. This is a man who, when George was born, the life expectancy for a black man was like 34 or 35 years old. He has doubled that and more, and he's still here.

3:25And it's a journey that includes bringing Jordan to Nike and driving around Wilt Chamberlain when he was in college. And then it happens to include being on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the March on Washington and walking home with the I Have a Dream speech. He's someone I try to talk to every couple of days, someone who in the course of interviewing him to help get his thoughts down for the book, I was just pinching myself. I am so, so lucky. That has culminated in this book that George is putting out. It's called What You're Made For and it's lessons from his incredible life. It's not a memoir so much as it is a collection of lessons from his story.

4:10and I was very lucky and felt very fortunate. And as I said, pinched myself every day that I got to sort of download this and help convert it into prose for him. And we've got some signed copies of it in the Painted Porch. George signed them, I signed them. It's a limited run of about 500. Not many of them are left. So you can grab those. I'll link to those in the show notes. And today I wanted to bring you a chapter from the audio book of What You're Made For. and it's a very Stoic idea. It's about, George has this philosophy about how you create order from chaos. So that's sort of our job, to bring order to the messiness and disorder of life.

4:49And there's a bunch of Stoic reminders in it. I asked him and the publisher if we could throw that together and they said, of course. Basically, he's saying one of the things we're made for is to create order from chaos and that's what this chapter is about. And I do hope you grab one of the signed copies before they run out or grab the audiobook wherever audiobooks are sold. To create order from chaos. When you see a successful individual, a champion, a winner, you can be very sure that you are looking at an individual who pays great attention to the perfection of minor details. Coach John Wooden.

5:31At 62, I was tapped to run the second largest division in a Fortune 500 company, Nike, despite having no prior corporate experience. Initially, I turned the job down three or four times, convinced I didn't have the necessary skills or knowledge. For the first time in my life, I truly doubted my own abilities. I confessed my doubts to the executive who offered me the job, Adam Helfand, saying, Look, I think you got the wrong guy. I don't think I can do this. I don't think I have the skill set for it and I don't want to get too deep into this thing and fail and make you look bad Adam refused to let me back out You're not getting out of the job, he said You're staying in the job Here's what I want you to do When you leave the office every day leave a yellow pad in the middle of the desk and when you come in the morning write down the three most important things you gotta get done that day in that order That day, do not do anything else but the first thing on the pad And if you get the first one, then you go to the second one That will put structure to your day And it will give you a sense of purpose Then he asked me a question that put it all in perspective How many people do you think get the most important thing they have to do that day done every day?

7:01I thought about it for a moment Probably very few, I admitted Okay, Adam said So every day, put your notes on the pages and save them And at the end of every month, you bring them in and I'm going to go over them with you That simple system ended up working wonders It kept me focused on what mattered most And gave me a clear sense of accomplishment at the end of each day Suddenly, this daunting new role began to feel manageable The structure Adam provided aligned with my comfort zone Enabling me to tackle tasks effectively With that framework and a renewed sense of purpose I felt capable of handling anything This experience reinforced a belief That had guided me throughout my life and career One of our fundamental purposes as human beings is to create order and structure from the chaos of existence.

8:06The world we live in is fundamentally chaotic and unpredictable. The path forward is rarely clear or straightforward. There are always obstacles to overcome, setbacks to weather, and unexpected detours to navigate. It can be disorienting and daunting. But in that chaos lies opportunity The chance to forge our own way To create meaning and purpose Where none exists This idea of creating order from chaos is not new In fact, it's been a fundamental aspect of human thought For thousands of years I remember coming across a fascinating concept From an ancient Egyptian culture During one of my deep dives into world mythology A subject I'd grown increasingly interested in As I sought to understand different cultural perspectives On life's big questions The Egyptians had a concept known as Ma 'at Which represented order, balance, harmony, justice, and truth Ma 'at was personified as a goddess But was also understood as a cosmic force that maintained the universe against the ever-present threat of chaos and disorder known as ISFET.

9:32Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought, this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin, and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

10:17We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven it across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course. Because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism, too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you.

10:56Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

11:09One of the most powerful stories in Egyptian lore is that of Horus and Set, a tale that vividly illustrates this eternal battle between order and chaos. Osiris, the wise and just ruler of Egypt, embodied Ma 'at, the divine order that kept the world in balance. Under his reign, Egypt flourished. But this harmony was shattered when his brother Set, consumed by jealousy, murdered Osiris and seized the throne. Under the rule of Set, the god of chaos and disorder, Egypt was plunged into turmoil. The land turned barren and people suffered as the balance of Maat was disrupted. Osiris' son Horus was destined to reclaim his father's throne and restore order to Egypt, ensuring that chaos would not prevail.

12:08Guided by his divine heritage, as Horus grew, he understood that his destiny was to challenge Set and bring balance back to the world. The battle between Horus and Set was not just a physical struggle, but a cosmic conflict between Ma 'at and Isfet. Set fought with unpredictable fury while Horus relied on strategy and discipline. Understanding that restoring Ma 'at required more than brute force, Horus sought to outmaneuver his opponent. The battle tested Horus repeatedly. He faced setbacks but always rose with renewed determination. Through perseverance and unwavering focus on his purpose, Horace gradually gained the upper hand.

12:59Finally, he emerged victorious. With Set defeated, Maat was restored and peace returned to Egypt. This myth serves as a powerful metaphor for our own struggles against chaos. We each face our own Set, the forces of disorder in our lives. Like Horace, we often find ourselves confronted by chaos that threatens to overwhelm us. We have to fight to impose order on chaos, to create structure and meaning from disorder. In our own lives, set might take the form of unexpected setbacks, overwhelming responsibilities, or the sheer complexity of the modern world. Our challenge, like that of Horace, is to remain focused on our greater purpose To use our intelligence and determination to overcome these forces of chaos The story of Horace and Set teaches us that creating order is not a one-time event But an ongoing process It requires vigilance, strategy, and the unwavering commitment to maintain balance in the face of constant challenges Just as Horace had to continually fight to maintain ma 'at We too must consistently work to create and maintain order in our lives As we look at examples of how this principle plays out in the modern world We can see echoes of Horace's struggle and triumph I saw this principle powerfully at work in my friendship with Bob Knight Bob was famous for his meticulous planning and attention to detail He'd carry around a stack of index cards in his pocket, each one filled with notes and reminders, practice plans, drills, points of emphasis, agendas for staff meetings.

14:57Even when Bob seemed to be acting impulsively or emotionally, it was all part of a carefully considered approach. There was a method to his madness, an order underlying his chaos. That lesson stuck with me in my own coaching career. I sought to provide structure and purpose for my players that extended beyond the X's and O's of basketball. I developed my own system for creating order and imparting wisdom. Before each practice, I would gather the team in a circle and spend five minutes sharing a story or life lesson. These weren't about sports. They were about life. I might share an anecdote about perseverance, discuss the importance of integrity, or explore concepts like empathy and leadership.

15:48After practice, I handed out articles for the players to read. These weren't sports articles either. They might be about current events, profiles of successful people from various fields, or pieces on personal development. The goal was to broaden their horizons, to help them see life more holistically beyond the basketball court. This structured approach to mentorship allowed me to impart wisdom and values even amid the unpredictable nature of a basketball season. I wanted to create an awareness in their minds of other things in life beyond sports, which tends to dominate the lives of college athletes.

16:32years later one of my former players told me he had saved every handout in two boxes in his garage coach you know all those handouts that you gave out at the end of practice he said i've got every one of them it made me feel incredibly good to know that these articles had made such an impact that the players had taken them more seriously than i'd realized at the time This innate human drive to create order out of chaos May be more than just a metaphor It may be hardwired into our very biology In her book, Naming Nature Carol Kasich-Yoon describes a fascinating case That illustrates this point A British patient known as JBR After suffering brain swelling from herpes lost the ability to categorize the natural world.

17:28He couldn't distinguish between a cat and a carrot or a toadstool and a toad. Interestingly, his understanding of non-living objects remained intact. This case, and others like it, suggests that we possess a built-in neurological mechanism for imposing order on the natural world, one that's crucial to our ability to make sense of our environment. The reality is that the world we live in is fundamentally chaotic and unpredictable. The path forward is rarely clear or straightforward. There are always obstacles to overcome, setbacks to weather, and unexpected detours to navigate. It can be disorienting and daunting.

18:15But in that chaos lies opportunity. the chance to forge our own way to create meaning and purpose where none exists. By imposing structure and order on the disorder around us, we can begin to chart a course through the unknown. We can break down big amorphous goals into tangible achievable steps. We can cut through the clutter and noise to focus on what really matters. This, I believe, is one of the highest callings of the human spirit To be a force for order in a chaotic world To create structures that allow us and others to thrive and grow It's not an easy task by any means It requires vision and discipline Resilience and adaptability It means being willing to take risks To step outside our comfort zones to bet on ourselves even when the odds seem long.

19:15But the rewards are immeasurable. When we embrace the challenge of creating order from chaos, we tap into a wellspring of meaning and purpose that can sustain us through life's trials. We become architects of our own destinies, builders of something greater than ourselves. As you contemplate your own path and purpose, don't fear the chaos and uncertainty that inevitably lie ahead. Embrace them as opportunities to impose your own structure and meaning. Have faith in your ability to create order from disorder, to find your way through the wilderness of possibility. Because that is what we are made for, to be builders and creators, to shape the raw material of our lives into something beautiful and meaningful, to create order and chaos.

20:13It is a challenge worthy of the best that lies within us.

20:21Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and would really help the show. We appreciate it. I'll see you next episode.

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21:30No interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for. And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're going to have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you want to remove distractions, go deeper into Stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium, and we are offering a limited time discount of 20 % off your first year. Just go to dailystoic.com slash premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.

From the publisher

In today's episode, discover George Raveling's powerful philosophy on navigating life’s chaos. With years of experience guiding top players and coaches, he reveals how to turn uncertainty into opportunity and transform life’s challenges into a winning strategy.


🎙️ Don’t forget to listen to George Raveling's interview on Apple Podcasts and Spotify


📕 You can grab copies of What You’re Made For signed by George Raveling and Ryan Holiday at The Painted Porch. 


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Follow George on Instagram, X, and YouTube: @GeorgeRaveling  


Connect with George on his website: https://coachgeorgeraveling.com/


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