Garland Robinette On The Stoic Principle That Shapes His Incredible Life

0:00I'm picking my kids up from school today and then doing our weekly routine, which is I take them over to Whole Foods, which is a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.

0:30ingredients standards so you know it'll be delicious and good for you. You can also order online for pickup and even delivery in select zip codes to skip the crowds. Shop everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. I got an amazing night's sleep last night. One, because my six-year-old fell asleep in the car at like six o 'clock and he transferred him from the car seat to the bed and it stuck, which is just magic. So he's in bed way earlier than normal. But I sleep really well every night because I have a 8 Sleep Pod 5 Ultra, which is 8 Sleep's best product. I've used 8 Sleep for many years now.

1:09And it's just totally transformed how I sleep, made me sleep better, made my wife sleep better. It's amazing. So basically, 8 Sleep is this topper that goes over your mattress. It can heat and cool both sides separately. It can raise and lower each side separately. So it helps you fall asleep faster, stay asleep, and then wake up better. Eight Sleep buzzes me to wake gently every morning as opposed to some loud blaring alarm. And then I can check the app and it tells me my sleep score. It even helps me optimize my day based on how I slept. If you want to survive the holidays like a pro and just generally sleep better, Head over to 8sleep.com slash Daily Stoic and use code Daily Stoic to get$350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra.

1:58The best part is you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it, but I know you will. Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep, shipping to many countries worldwide. See details at 8sleep.com slash Daily Stoic.

2:15Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these Stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring.

3:09Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. Some of you know this, some of you don't. I moved to New Orleans. to write what became my first book. I don't know exactly why I picked New Orleans. I wanted to live somewhere very different than where I'd grown up, than where I went to college, than where I was working. And I just wanted to live a writer's life. And New Orleans seemed like a place you could live cheaply, go on long walks, be surrounded by history and characters. And one of the great New Orleans characters is actually today's guest. If you saw Spike Lee's documentary, When the Levees Broke, you might know the name Garland Robinette.

3:52If you've seen the movie Anchorman, well, you kind of know his story because it feels like they ripped a bunch of headlines straight from Garland's life. I'll give you the sort of top line of it. He's born basically to swamp people. He becomes an orphan. He gets drafted. He fights in Vietnam, terribly, grievously wounded, comes back all messed up. He's working as a janitor at a TV station. And one night, the anchor is out and they ask him to fill in. And he goes on to be a legendary television anchor. He marries his co-host. It's national news. They make a Ron Burgundy, Veronica Corningstone-esque couple.

4:33Then he becomes a PR specialist. Then he works in radio. He happens to be working the radio one day when this little thing called Hurricane Katrina happens. His broadcasts reach all around the world, reach American presidents, shame a nation's terrible response. And that's only like the first, third, fourth, fifth, sixth act of this guy's life. He goes on, there's a painting from Garland in my office of the great Walker Percy that I look at almost every day. he is uh just an absolutely fascinating guy he's currently writing a memoir about a lot of this but i'll just let you get into the story this is when i finished this interview my producer walked in and said that might have been one of the best interviews ever done i thought that also and i think you're really going to like this check out his art it's fascinating he's a brilliant artist.

5:33Like I said, I've got one of his paintings hanging here in my office. You go to robinetstudio.com, R-O-B-I-N-E-T-T-E studio.com. You can follow him on Instagram at the Garland Robinette, just an absolutely perfect New Orleanian name. I met Garland when I was living in New Orleans, and he invited me on his radio show. We had dinner a couple of times, then he moved to Austin. We've bumped into each other every once in a while. And I thought, it's been a while since I've seen Garland. Let's have him come out to the studio and do the show, which he did. And I think he crushed it. And I can't wait for you to listen to this fascinating interview with an absolutely fascinating person.

6:19You probably heard the headlines about all the different cuts to foreign aid and food benefits. This is having a profound impact on the world's poorest people and the world's poorest communities. But, you know, just hearing about that, that's not what stoicism is about. Stoicism is, to me, what you're going to do about it. And that's where GiveWell comes in. GiveWell is trusted by tens of thousands of donors each year because they provide free and independent research that helps you understand how to have a big impact. GiveWell has spent the last 18 years researching global health and poverty alleviation, and they direct funding to the highest impact opportunities.

6:58Over 150 ,000 donors have already trusted GiveWell to give more than$2.5 billion over the last several years. And research suggests that these donations will save over 300 ,000 lives. I myself am one of those donors. I donate to GiveWell every year. It means a lot to me. And you can find all their research and recommendations on their site for free. And thanks to the donors that sponsor this research, GiveWell doesn't take a cut from your tax-deductible donation to their recommended funds. And if this is your first gift through GiveWell, you can have your donation matched up to$100 before the end of the year, or as long as matching funds last.

7:34To claim your match, go to GiveWell.org and pick Daily Stoic from the drop-down menu under podcast. That's how they know that you heard about GiveWell from the Daily Stoic, and you'll get your donation matched. That's GiveWell.org, code the Daily Stoic to donate or find out more. My family owns a 2023 Toyota 4Runner, and honestly, it's my favorite vehicle that I've ever owned. Around town, it's smooth and reliable, but where it really shines is on our trips into the backcountry. We've taken it on backpacking adventures to Colorado and New Mexico, loaded it up with gear, and never had to think twice about whether it could handle the terrain.

8:06That's what Toyota trucks are built for. Off-road confidence, rugged durability, and the freedom to explore. Toyota has a long history with the outdoor community, and they're committed to helping more people get out there and experience what nature has to offer. From remote trails to scenic byways, Toyota Trucks empowers you to take the detour, roam freely, and discover places that still feel wild and untouched. And they're not just making great trucks, they're working to expand access to adventure so more people can connect with the outdoors and pass that passion on to the next generation. Discover your uncharted territory.

8:36Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. That's toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

8:49Yeah, I was trying to think, when did I do your show? It would have been like 12 or 13 years ago. It would have been forever ago. Oh, absolutely. I was telling a friend last night, I was telling him I was coming here, and I said, my staff brought in this book, trust me, I'm lying. You got to read this. And I said, I ain't got time to read. God damn it. Doing five, six hours of research every day. my executive producer insisted that I bring it on so I read it one night and I came back and I said Jesus Christ we gotta get this guy on because that was my business communications I'd never seen it put that way and so we gotta bring him in so over the years I've tracked you not closely but I've watched and I remember telling my friend last night, how in the fuck he went to his editors and said, I know trust me, lying is going to be a blockbuster, but I want to start doing books on this story.

10:01Well, they were not excited. They were definitely not excited. I can't imagine. Well, it was funny because... Most of them don't know what the Stoics are. They do now because of you. but before. Well, my editor told me later that they basically were just humoring me and they hoped that it would come out and not do well. And then I would just write more marketing books. God. But I did that in New Orleans. I was, I remember. I heard that one of your pieces. You were living in New Orleans, did that at Tulane Library? I wrote, trust me, I'm lying in New Orleans and then I wrote the proposal for The Obstacles of the Way there and I sent it to them the week that Trust Me on the Line came out.

10:46That's always what I wanted to do. Why did I think we got you out of California? I don't remember. I remember I was on my book tour or something and you had emailed me and I of course knew who you were because everyone in New Orleans knew who you were. And I remember I came back for it and did it. And then I don't know how much longer I lived there after that. I don't remember exactly what it was. I had no idea you lived there. We had dinner in New Orleans. I know that, but I thought you were just on a book tour and you came by. No, no. To write, trust me, I'm lying, I very much needed to not live in like a media city and it was very nice to live in a place where nobody cared and basically may as well have been 1980 or 1880 you know what i mean like the city is just not say you're right yeah it just lives it's its own thing with its own like time zone and vibe and i i needed to yeah i needed just a totally different way of thinking to do that book.

11:53Well, I've always said the city was very, very, very good to me. Yes. But it's a great place to visit, not to live. As soon as I finished the book, like I lived there for like eight or nine months while I was writing the book and I loved it. And then as soon as I finished the book and I was like trying to do business related things, pertain i was like i gotta get out of here this is insane it was just like no and the city had not changed at all it was just my when i was totally focused and consumed with what i was doing it was great and then as soon as i looked around and was like this is insane uh i can't operate here well see it's not part of the united states it's not part of it's south america yeah Because when people say Mexico, Ecuador, Argentina, great food, great architecture, great culture, great music.

12:54Yeah. Crime, stupidity, bad streets, bad infrastructure. Well, it's like nature is constantly trying to claw back whatever gains civilization has made. Yeah, I mean, catastrophically in some cases. But just on a daily basis, you're like, oh, the swamp is reclaiming this street. And if civilization does not fight back, it will not be a street much longer. It's a doomed city. It really is. It may take another 20 years, but it's doomed. It's not going to make it. Do you miss it? No, not at all. Not at all? No, I love Texas. Yeah? I didn't think I would like it at all. My wife made us move here. I wanted to go other places, North Carolina.

13:43Get out of the South? I wanted out of New Orleans, period. And the South. I think the South is just stupid. And we got here, and I thought, oh, fucking rednecks with the pickup trucks. I love it. This town is like a fucking postcard. I know. It's like Disney's Main Street or something. I had breakfast across the street and I thought, this is the way to live. Yeah, I like it. Oh, I love it. I absolutely love it. And I didn't think I would. Yeah, New Orleans is great, too, after you've lived there, then visit. Because then you can go to all, it's like having grandkids or something. Great place to visit.

14:26Yes, exactly. It's all upside and on the downside. Not live there. I always used to tell my wife I've been shot twice. I'm living in New Orleans. We'd walk down the street, and if the wall was here, I made her walk to the inside so we got to the end of the wall I could see around and be ready. I said, I don't want to live like this. Yeah. Constantly worried. and I had a very good friend there. Sunday afternoon, 12 noon, unloading groceries, two kids walk up, give me your whatever. He was slow doing. They shot him, paralyzed him, lived for 12 years, totally paralyzed, very rich guy, a great part of New Orleans.

15:22I thought, I can't live like this. I can't. I'll kill somebody soon myself. I have to leave.

15:33There's the walkability is, of course, amazing. The shade is amazing. The architecture is amazing. You know what I mean? Like you miss all of that. You get to Texas, you're like, where are the trees? You know, like where are the – why is everyone so spaced out? But there's a cost to it also. Yeah. And in Texas, what I found, it's really like 20 states in one. Yeah. You go to Kerrville and you go, what the fuck? Yeah. Is this mountains or close to mountains? Have you been to Big Bend yet? Going this August. It's incredible. You're going in August? Yeah. It's going to be hot. Yeah, well, we're used to hot.

16:15Not this hot. This is like, Big Bend is like, they're like, don't go hiking after 9.30 a.m. Well, that's like New Orleans. Don't go out after 12 noon. New Orleans is like, you better shower three, four times a day. Big Bend is like, you'll die. It's a wet, hot. Yes. Yeah. No, I've jogged in Las Vegas, so I know what you're talking about. I guess if you've been in Vietnam, you're not sort of like, you're like, whatever the weather is. You know what Vietnam is? Exactly South Vietnam, Louisiana. Yeah. That's why so many immigrants ended up there. Exactly. I mean, when I flew into the main base, Thompson Newton, I got out and went, fuck, I flew 30 hours and I'm back home?

17:06It's the same shithole as I left. Because you grew up like in the swamp, basically, right? I was in the swamp. I mean, no sidewalks, no lights, just in the swamp. Yeah, definitely. My mother was a cajon. She talked like that job. I'd bring friends home trying to interpret English. What'd she say? She said, my friend, she loves you. Oh, I see. She loves you. Oh, God. But I had a very interesting life there. Yeah, your life is a movie. So you grew up in the swamp, and then you got drafted? How old were you? I flunked out of three colleges, kicked out of one, flunked out of two, getting ready to get drafted, so I joined the Navy because I'd never been in a fist fight, didn't like sports, You came from boat people?

18:14Huh? You came from boat people? Yeah. And I said, well, I'll have clean sheets and hot meals. Yeah. You ever see Apocalypse Now? Yeah. That's what I was on. The fucking four-man, no officers, fiberglass boats in a bayou. Yeah. I went through three boat crews. I'm the only one that came home. I mean, it was. How old were you? I was in my early 20s because I'd been through so much college. Everybody else was 18. I was the old man of the boat. Yeah. Yeah. And how long were you there? There were 13 months. I went to the hospital twice, probably for about five, six weeks total, but 13 months overall.

19:07That's what I want, right? This guy, this Dr. Eagleman, when we went out to have lunch, I'd read his book and I said, look, can I ask you something personal? I'm crazy. I love to fight. I'm always in fights at bars and I'm well known. I'm always afraid people could find out how crazy I am. And he said, what's your history? I got to Vietnam and he said, wait, wait, you're wounded? Yeah. Where did they send me to the hospital? What did they give you? Oh, morphine for the pain, he said. And that was it? You came home? No, I went back to combat. He said, wait a minute. How many times did you go? Twice.

19:58He said, you were morphine? Did they ramp you off to go to combat? No. He said, that's why you're crazy. Dopamine is running through your brain. You love danger. When I was listening to your MMA interview. With Frank Shamrock? I was thinking, he didn't know it. Yeah. He was an orphan like me. Yeah. He went through violence like me. He ended up in prison. I almost did. that dopamine, he was saying, I got a million dollars worth of insurance, so I said, now I can just go ahead and fight. Well, that's not true. Yeah. His brain wasn't saying you could get brain damage. Right. And not get insurance.

20:48Right. And really pocket the family. The dopamine was just saying, I love the feeling of, I think I'm going to die. I think there was a cure. Living on the edge. Oh, I won. Boom, dopamine. And dopamine immediately goes away. If serotonin doesn't come in, you just go looking for the next dopamine hit. And that was me. So you sort of get messed up over there. You come home. And you end up as a janitor, right? My best friend called me and said, hey, won't you come here with my wife? We'll go to Burger King and get her. I said, you fucking soft Americans, I've been eating sea rations from 1943 for 13 months.

21:35You're just crazy. You're just angry and ramped up. Oh, just, I mean, I think, I truly think I was on the verge of schizophrenia. But got a job as a janitor because I had no education. Right. And four months later, I'm the key TV anchor in the biggest news operation in the South for 20 years. No, it's like a Horatio Alger story. You're not supposed to go from being the janitor to being the on-air talent in a TV show. It's like if that was in a movie, they'd be like, you've got to put some more time there. You've got to spread this out. If I wrote my life story, which many friends have said I should, I promise, I guarantee, not being modest, The editor would go, this fucking guy's lying.

22:24That's bullshit. Come on. Janitor, TV, at the zenith of TV, I quit, go to the corporation that I cost$40 million because I did a documentary. And the CEO and I were almost in a fistfight. He offers me a job. I saved their stock, have offices all over the world, other companies come to me, form my own company, make a shitload of money, have a daughter at 54 years old, totally enamored by her, quit my company, go take care of her, just be a dad at home. and a month later, friend calls that had a radio show and said, I got cancer, I'm getting chemo, can you come in for one night? Sure. Katrina, I'm there 10 years.

23:24What the fuck? I guess, I mean, knowing you're hooked on dopamine, that's a pretty good, the through line is just crazy circumstances and high stress. Your, Gretchen Rubin, said, the brain is listening for danger and opportunity. That's exactly what dopamine is. Yeah. Exactly. And I would never have had the opportunities accomplish what I did because I loved the danger of, oh, fuck, I lied about TV news. I've never been in a TV station. You want me to what? The guy got drunk? You want me to take over the thing temporarily? I don't know how to read a profit. I don't know. I'm scared. I love it.

24:14I'm scared shitless. Right, right, right, right, right. Corporation, mining in gold and oil and gas and copper. Scared the devil. I don't know how to do this shit. And that's what does it. The mind loves danger. Well, they're faking it till you make it. There's the edge of, are they going to find out I'm not qualified? I can't do it. Stay here. I'm going to figure it out live. It's an MMA fighter walking into the ring, as he said, I'm afraid. Yeah. And the minute you're not afraid, you're not going to do it. And if I remember from your story, you weren't just, I mean, obviously this was the sort of golden age of local TV.

24:56Oh, I had the zeno. Weren't you like on the cover all, because you and your co-anchor were together. So it's basically the plot of Anchorman. The first, yeah, I was Ron. Burgundy. Burgundy. Yeah. We were the first couple to get married on the air. We were in People Magazine. We had a wedding, St. Charles Avenue. We had to put a live truck 10 blocks down to another church. church people found out that there were over a thousand people when we came out of the church street cars stopped no traffic and saying helicopters whole fucking thing i was a janitor a couple of years earlier oh it sounds like a prank like trading spaces definitely sounds like ron burgundy bullshit how did you i mean how did you keep it together Because one of the interesting things about people that are sort of hooked on that is that they're often very successful.

26:00But then when things go well, there's also kind of an element of self-sabotage. The worst three times. The minute. And I always say you can go back. I've been interviewed 10 million times. You can go back and read it. I've never said a bad word about a wife. Truly. Yeah. Wonderful women. They had bad taste in men. That was it. Because the minute my wife, picket-fin, showed up, all the money in the world, two houses, a beach housewife. Divorce gave them everything. To every time I was bankrupt all the way down the road. And I just could not stand happiness, peace. So I had to. Do you think you just didn't deserve it?

26:51Or why couldn't you stand it? It's a overwhelming thing. Yeah. It's going to sound so ridiculous. If they hadn't come in and said, hey, your time's over time to go home, I'd have been dead or I'd have been insane because I was over the edge. Did you feel anger about, like, because I think about, it's not like you chose to go there, right? somebody, it's not like you probably think we even should have been there. So your life is changed. The course of your life is changed by the fact that, you know, a bunch of bad decisions were made. How do you, how have, how have you processed even having to do any of that?

27:36I don't trust government. I don't trust the law. Uh, I know a lot about legal because of everything I'm covered from corporate to news to radio talk. I don't trust much. It's no longer anger, lack of trust. It used to be I don't trust and I'm going to get you before you get me. Yeah, sure. I mean, I joined a fight club. In New Orleans? 52 years old in Alabama. And my wife and child didn't know about it. I mean, I'm an old man fighting 18-year-old kids. And I got the shit beat out of me like the 7th or 8th or 9th fight I had. And I had to come home with a broken nose. You just wanted the rush and you wanted to feel the pain, basically?

28:32The danger. Yeah. MMA, same thing. I was just sitting around talking to my friend Ryan. And it's very nice, but God damn it. You know, let's go get some danger. Has that declined as you've gotten older at all? Well, I heard you say that you didn't think much of psychedelics. Yeah. Well, I said I don't think much of it except for extreme cases. Yeah, military. Yes, exactly. Well, I have not thought much of my whole life to a point on the book. We tell people, if you smoke potter, your drugs will kill you because there's only four guys. Yeah, and you didn't want anyone. Somebody freaks out in a firefight.

29:18You got poured. I got started. I'm dead. Yeah. So you do it. We'll kill you and get somebody new. And I just have been totally getting shrugged. But since I've been here, I've retired. I listen to podcasts. I know you text me anytime I get mentioned anywhere, and you're on top of it, like the day they come out. I love this guy, Lex Friedman. Have you ever heard of him? I know, Lex, yeah.

29:49MIT roboticist. Brilliant guy. And he had two people, one from Harvard and John Hopkins, talking about government-granted testing of psychedelics. That's bullshit. Then I heard Joe Rogan. Same thing. Then I heard Sam Harris. Same thing. And I said, well, fuck, I still got nightmares. My mom was 80 years old and screaming at night. My wife and I could sleep together. So I said, what the fuck? Yeah. So I, and believe me, getting mushrooms when you're my age, they think either you're homeless or you're a cop. When I finally got them, I knew my wife would kill me if I took them. So she went for a hike and I didn't know anything about it.

30:48I grabbed a handful and ate them. Oh, my God. So anyway, I did a lot more research, and we started doing the microdosing, my wife agreed. And I know it's a slight difference, but the John Hopkins people in particular, I learned about these hero doses. I went that for five hours and it cured me. Really? I mean, overnight. It just rewired it or reset it or something for you? Well, what Hopkins and Harvard and Stanford and the one in Houston will tell you, it builds new neurons. Yeah. They do MRIs, and they watch it and rebuild neurons. It goes in different directions. And their theory is that MMA in particular for veterans are— Oh, MDMA?

31:51MDMA, that they're as fucked up as I am is the best thing to use. But I went with the heroes, and it was just horrifying because I learned. You know, I always thought we had little parts of our brains from the past, little flashbacks that we could access. There's a videotape in there. Of everything you went through? Of your worst moments. Oh. Where you don't see little pieces. You see the whole fucking thing. Yeah. For five hours. It was just playing it again for you? But then it was gone? About three or four days later, I started sleeping for the first time in my life. What was that like? A relief?

32:39It was wonderful. I mean, it's been 40 years. Yeah. Afraid to shut your eyes at night. It's crazy. Yeah, you were just white-knuckling it the whole time. White knuckling it but having a good time with the danger of it. As I saw my wife last night, I said that the obstacle is the way. Yeah. He wrote it, I lived it. Yeah. That is, if anybody could read any book, that's it. Wow. That's it. Because people think, you know, pain to me. Pain, danger, I'm going to run from, you know, get away from doing something. That's not it. You just go. The Vietnamese call it a tsak mao, walk into the pain. Yeah.

33:34Walk into the pain. And that's the only book, not because I'm talking to you. I'm too old to bullshitting. But that book is the only book you can read copiously. The only one I've ever read where I go, every young person should be required. and breathe. You gotta go read by it.

33:59Function is the only health platform that gives you the data that most people never get. And it gives you the insights to start doing something about it too. With Function, you get access to over 160 lab tests annually, from hormones to toxins to markers of heart health, inflammation, and stress. And for an additional fee, you can also access MRI and chest CT scans, all tracked in one secure place over time. It's a near 360 degree view to see what's happening inside your body, which is why so many top health leaders are all behind function. If you want to give someone or yourself something truly meaningful this year, give them the clarity that comes from knowing their health.

34:36Most gifts fade, but this one helps your loved ones stay healthy. And you can own your health for just$365 a year. That's just a dollar a day. You can learn more. Join using the link. Go to functionhelp.com slash Daily Stoke or use code Daily Stoke 25 for a$25 credit towards your membership. So we live on a Halloween street. We knew it was a Halloween street when we moved there. And then it has quickly become a Thanksgiving and then a Christmas street. Everyone's vying to outdo each other with their decorations. And I'll admit it sneaks up on us, especially as the competition gets more and more.

35:15The holidays are here. And if you're looking for holiday decor or last minute refreshes around the house, get what you need fast with Wayfair. That's where we got a bunch of our Christmas decorations and a bunch of essentials because we have some of my wife's family visiting us for the holidays. Blankets, linens, all that kind of stuff. You can get all of it at Wayfair. You can also get big stuff like sofas and dining tables, beds, desks, and more all shipped for free. They don't have huge delivery fees for furniture. Find all your must-haves from furniture and decor to appliances and cookware all in one convenient place.

35:49Get last-minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones, and decor to celebrate the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

36:05But what's interesting is you went into the pain for a long time and then it turned out there's a way around it. I got lucky. Yeah. Because most people like me end up in prison. What is interesting is I was at Andrew's Air Force Base recently and someone asked me about that. They were talking about moral injury, which is when you do something or you see something or you are part of something that's terrible, that stains you, that changes your brain chemistry. You know, how do you reenter society? You can't just – you know, stoicism to people means this idea of just – you know, white knuckling it or just going into the pain, toughing it out.

36:49Nobody's strong enough to do that. You can't just experience something like that and then rub some dirt on it and go back to regular life. Well, I'm oversimplifying, but stoicism is using your brain to live life. Yeah. chemicals are what rule you yeah and you can't control life yeah you have to and you have to if you if you don't process the emotions and deal with them whether it's in therapy or with medically assisted therapy like you're talking about if you just stuff it down it comes exploding out when someone bumps into you at a bar or you look around and you've got this beautiful family in a white picket fence and you go, I'm not worthy of this, or you have some self-destructive edge in you.

37:39You can't, if you stuff it all down, it comes exploding out. Oh, absolutely. My poor daughter has heard me more nightmares and anger. We were at a stop by St. Charles Avenue, had a beautiful convertible, and she's probably seven or eight, and the light was still red, and the guy behind me beeped. I jumped out of the car, ran back and grabbed him by the shirt. I'll kill you, mother. And he said, the car behind me. I had to go, the light changed. I'm sorry. I walked back and driving off, you know, you can tell somebody's looking at you. I looked over and said, little kid goes, what is wrong with you?

38:26And you have kids. Yeah. You're just. Yeah. Your heart just drops. You go, what is the fuck wrong with you and why can't I fix it? I went to two of the top shrinks in New York that handle only survivors, plant crisis, car crisis, or war. And they worked with me for three weeks. And the third week they said, yours may not be the war. You may be mentally ill. They put me on lithium and everything else you can think of. So I hired a detective to go find my blood family. I find my father in Ennis, Texas, in a VA hospital, shot in the left shoulder. Same fucking place I've been shot. Schizophrenic, mental institution, his whole life.

39:29and I just got through the two shrinks and said, you may just be mentally ill. Have you read the book, The Body Keeps Score? I think you would like it, but it's the idea that these things happen to us. We endure these things. It's not just in our brain chemistry, but sort of just literally in our bodies. And that if you don't find some way to process or some kind of support system, it doesn't end well. I think you'd like it. Yeah, I'm not sure I'll read that. Yeah, he's talking about this guy. He was dealing with this veteran who, I think it was Korea maybe or whatever, and at the end of their sessions, the guy gives him his watch, the watch he was wearing in Korea that was, you know, like broken when a landmine went off or something.

40:19And he was pointing – it strikes the doctor. He's like time basically stopped for this dude when that happened. And he was never the same. And it was only in – he went on and had a seemingly normal life. But there was always this undercurrent of – I'd like to read that. I think you would like it. One of the key moments in my life, this guy, Eagleman, we're at lunch and he's explaining dopamine, serotonin. Saying that's what caused all this shit. And we talked and towards the end of the dinner said, wait a minute, wait a minute. I wanted to be a priest before I went to Vietnam. You did? Yeah. Yeah.

41:07I never had a fist fight. I had asthma. I couldn't play sports. Baseball scared me. I was afraid I was going to hit by the baseball. Football was too dangerous and it hurt too much. Never fistfight, no nothing. And I go to this place for 13 months. Right. Come out the other side. Different person. Nuts. And a killer. Yeah. I mean, a killer. And I said, who's the bad guy? Who's the good guy? Yeah. And he said, I don't think there is anybody. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, good people have good chemicals that society agrees with. Sure. Bad people have bad chemicals that society didn't agree with.

42:00Those bad chemicals almost always are brought about by trauma. Childhood, whatever it may be. Sure. If you don't mind my asking, how was your childhood? It's all right. It was all right. It was average. I would say it had the appearances of all the things being good. There was no defining events like yours, but there was an undercurrent of something missing. But you're driven. Yeah, very much. Why? um you know i i saw this meme the other day that was like um uh daddy issues in in women lead to like sex work yeah daddy issues for men lead to podcasts

42:54uh you know there's some some part of you that wants to be seen or heard or taken seriously And that's probably rooted in some sense of not getting what you tried to give your daughter unconditionally. Do you know what I mean? Yep. So there was, I have no complaints materially about my childhood or life. But there was something. But you are driven. Yeah. Very much so. I mean, in a good way. I mean, but that's an interesting point. Your point about chemicals, right? Is there's sometimes people have, you know, issues or chemical imbalances or coping mechanisms that are adaptive and some that are not, right?

43:47That's what he was saying. Yeah. I've got a friend that's a major Catholic. That's how I grew up, which I hate. Me too. I love him. And he was saying, I don't believe about brain chemicals. I said, I can give you enough LSD right now that you become a motherfucker. Sure. Or I can give you some sort of chemical that will make you angry. Or I can give you a chemical that will make you so fucking docile. Well, you could be a mass murderer. And it's funny, he works at UT. He's a professor in physics. And I said, right there on your campus in the bell tower, Charles Whitman. Yeah, one of the first mass shootings.

44:41Eagle Scout, straight A student, never had a speeding ticket, nothing. Goes up and slaughters all those people. left a letter. When you do my autopsy, check something's wrong. Yeah. And they found a tumor on the part of the brain that causes anger. Yeah. So I said, yeah, self-determination. Sure. Self-directed. It does have an effect, but you got to have the chemicals that are going to mesh where you want to go. I read someone, I read a sort of an essay from a trans person. They were a woman who became a man. And they were talking about when they started getting testosterone, a lot of their opinions about men that they thought had to do with specific men, you know, and culture.

45:39He was like, oh, I get it. Like, I get it. I get where that's coming from. which isn't to excuse it, but it's to, it's, we do as a society tend to assume everyone should behave a certain way and that everyone's capable of behaving a certain way. You think about this, like people who have affairs, you know, you're like, that's obviously not okay. You, you said you wouldn't do that. You did it. You lied about, there's all the reasons that it's wrong. And then And you go, but maybe if you measure their levels and your levels, you wouldn't be so glib about saying they should just not do it. We don't have a lot of empathy for people who are just chemically, biologically, genetically different than us.

46:28Oh, you tell people, married sex is like having a brand new swimming pool. you're in it every fucking day you love it yeah six months into it you're in it three times a week a year later you're barbecuing while everybody else gets in the pool and it's it's a joke sure but dopamine when you meet somebody yeah and it's the right dopamine 12 18 months later is serotonin and Oxycontin doesn't work in, it's over. Yeah, I think William Blake has this line about when you conquer an urge to realize that actually it was just that your urge was weak enough to overcome. And for some people, that's not the case.

47:25I think that's what my friend said. I was weak enough for it to overcome. because I'm not sure if I'd done the hero's dose at 40. Yeah. If I'm doing Fight Club at 50-something. Or to even think a lower dose of the things that you took, maybe no effect at all. We're having a very different conversation right now. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. This has been a great podcast. I don't want to keep you any longer. No, no. We got more to talk about. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You know I have this painting you gave me. It's in my office where I write. Yeah, I know. I saw it last time. That's very nice.

48:05Did you ever meet Walker Percy? Oh, yeah. You did? I'd go to his place. In Covington? Lunch, and yeah. What was he like? Like you. He was driven. But, see, I think it's a complex I have from not having education. Sure. I love talking to people that think like you think, that think like he thinks. And the reason you read, I heard it in one of your podcasts, you gather all the information that's been written a thousand fucking years ago. Yeah. It's not just to be educated. It's because you get so much smarter when you do it. And that's the way he was. He and I used to argue religion and talk science.

48:58He became very Catholic, right? Pardon? He became very Catholic. Yeah, and I was born to become a priest and then hate the Catholic Church. So we used to go around. He had a fucked up early life. I didn't know that. His father, basically every male in his family committed suicide, like generationally. His grandfather was a senator. his father you know his his grandfather was hunting with Theodore Roosevelt when he didn't shoot the bear that became the teddy bear wow that's how far back his family goes but then his so his father committed suicide then they think his mother committed suicide and he ended up being adopted by this guy his uncle Will who wrote this book Lanterns on the Levee which is like one of the beautiful sort of Southern memoirs about, you know, that era.

49:50And so he and his three brothers get adopted by this guy who's almost certainly, he was a confirmed bachelor who wrote, he fought in World War I. He's a confirmed bachelor in the South who wrote poetry, right? So it's basically a closeted gay man in the South and you could not be a gay man. Then he gets raised, you know, basically in Greenville, Mississippi, and he becomes best friends with Shelby Foote, the historian, their boyhood friends. But then he's going to medical school at Columbia, and one of the courses they have to dissect cadavers, and he gets tuberculosis from a cadaver. Whoa. never basically never recovers it's why he has he basically is in quarantine in a sanitarium he can't fight in world war ii so he misses you know the seminal event of his generation and yeah sort of never never recovers emotionally or physically from that stuff and that's that's where the movie go and all his books come from this sort of sense of there's a chapter with this other doctor i'm reading in here He said the dopamine, depending on your levels, is as close to schizophrenia as you can get.

51:16And that begets creativity. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, he started writing in his late 40s, maybe early 50s. I remember that. And then, yeah. But I think one of the great American writers. And that's so cool that you got to know him. Yeah, I got to know the big playwright, Tennessee Wayne. Really? Yeah, he lived right down the block from the TV station. And I had two very, very gay friends, and they introduced me to him. And we got told we could talk and visit. How old was he then? Was he pretty old? I think he was in his 60s. Now I look at it, it seemed that old. But now what's interesting. Then it seemed old.

52:08Only in a town like New Orleans could you get to know. The benefit of New Orleans is that it's such a small town where 90 % of the people are doing nothing. That's right. So the people that are doing interesting things, it's a small club. Amen. Amen. I don't know if I ever told you the way I started painting. I never painted. Yeah. I used to sketch real quick. and when I got to do the anchor thing, I was scared shitless every night for two years. So I'd kind of sketch the floor crew when we go to commercial because I don't know what to say. Just something to do with your energy. Yeah, and one of the floor directors, unbeknownst to me, would take my scripts because I'd throw them in the trash, take them out and save the little sketches.

52:57He came to me one day and he said, look, going to Loyola, he said, you're well known. If you let me Xerox these and sell them, I think I can buy my books. I'll pay half of whatever I get. So if you can get people to buy that shit, you go ahead and keep the money. So about, I don't know, shortly thereafter, the head of Loyola calls me. because they owned the TV station where we were. He said, I see art all over campus. I said, art all over campus. He said, the little guy, I can recognize some of the floor crew. I said, oh, yeah. He said, how would you like to do a portrait? I said, well, I've never done portraits, but I always sketch.

53:48I just like to sketch. He said, well, you want to give it a try? I said, sure. Who is it? Pope John Paul. I spent two days with Pope John Paul. I had to go to the art store and say, I don't know. That's his famous visit to New Orleans. Yeah. I said, I don't know if you have oils. I don't know if you have water color. And they said, pass out. So I chalked it on paper. So I thought I'd sketch him, did it. It became the poster for his visit, which sold over three states. And within six months, I was doing portraits for$20 ,000 and$25 ,000 apiece. I did Jimmy Buffett. I did the owner of The Saints.

54:32I did movie stars. I did Brian Williams' daughter and on and on and on. So I was janitor, TV, Pope. Artists. What the fuck? It's insane. It's insane. I'm still painting today. Before the breakthroughs you had later, was painting a way to deal with the emotional issues and the stress? Once I did the Pope's poster, I thought, shit, I don't do things. I've never done it. I enjoyed that. It got to where not only was it good therapy, I always said if anybody saw me painting, they'd call it a shrink. because I'd put on Tchaikovsky's Third Concerto in B-flat minor and be screaming it through the studio and throwing paint, scratching and tearing it.

55:30And it was great therapy. I just loved it. Absolutely loved it. Have you read Churchill's book on painting? No, I have not. Churchill wrote this book called Painting as a Pastime. So after World War I, where he not only saw combat and was gassed and saw all the terribleness that was trench warfare, but he had before the war been like one of the fastest rising politicians and celebrities in the world. And basically, he blows it. His reputation is destroyed. He's bounced out of power. So he has this nervous breakdown. Yeah. And his sister-in-law says – they're at his house one day and his sister-in-law gives him her children's paint set and says, I think this might be helpful for you.

56:19And he falls in love with painting. And I'm not sure Churchill that the world knows in the second half of his life, you know, we'll fight on the beaches, Churchill, you know, the defiant Churchill, the Iron Curtain Churchill. So the great Churchill, I'm not sure if that Churchill exists without the Churchill that falls in love with painting. Yeah. I always tell people that I played classical music from the time I was seven to the time I was 18, did concerts, everything else. And only music and painting do you truly lose time. You go something. It's like when you're writing. You may brag and say, man, Steph, I've been to the best you've been in an hour.

57:12You've been here four hours. You've been there. That's what – the people that are blessed with creative chemicals are the most blessed because I don't think there's anything that tops that. But don't you – I wonder if everyone is capable of it. Because if you look at Churchill's paintings, they're not good. Like he wasn't good. But that wasn't the point. No, I agree. The point was the doing. Like the paintings, actually Brad Pitt bought one for Angelina Jolie that just resold for like 10 or 11 million dollars. That painting is not worth 11 million dollars because of its artistic merits. It's worth 11 million dollars because of what the painting did for the person who painted it.

58:00Yeah. Right? Yep. But it taught him how to look at the world like an artist. It taught him to go outside. It forced him to be present. I totally agree that anybody can do it. I had this big studio on the North Shore, big 30-acre farm, two houses. One whole house was a magnificent studio. I saw your little one at your house. I saw your little studio. Yeah, but this one is this combined with your building there. I had two good friends, both of them multimillionaire, big businessmen. And they're watching me paint one day, and they said, usually I can't draw a stick figure. I said, tell you what, I'm going to put you in here with an easel, put you in here an easel.

58:48What's your favorite music? Country, classical. I'm going to play some music. I'm going to close the doors. I'm going to give you some booze and drink as much as you can. I don't care if you throw shit on the canvas, paint it, put it, whatever it is, just emotion. Yeah. Go for it. And when it's through, I'm sure it will throw it away and see if you like art. Yeah. One lives in Phoenix now, has a 2 ,500-square-foot studio where he does modern art. And the other one does folk art and his entire barn got transferred into a studio. So you're absolutely right. It's within all of us. Yeah. But are you given the opportunity and the encouragement?

59:39Yes. If they hadn't said, come on, try the Pope. Yeah. Sure. I'd have never done a thing. No doubt in my mind.

59:51Human, your body has a performance superhighway. 60 ,000 miles of blood vessels that deliver oxygen and nutrients to every cell. This, of course, is your cardiovascular system. It's the foundational system that powers everything we do. Both elite athletes and longevity experts invest directly in the cardiovascular system because supporting healthy blood flow is critical for energy, recovery, mental clarity, and overall performance. That's where human comes in. That's human with two Ns. They started out of research at the University of Texas, near where I live, and have 15 years of experience making award-winning supplements for nitric oxide production and healthy blood flow, now used by over 160 pro and college sports teams.

1:00:39Human Cardiovascular Health Daily is a plant-based and made from clinically studied ingredients like grapeseed and seed kelp extract. It supports nitric oxide production for healthy blood flow and energy while also supporting blood pressure and helping support the delicate interlining of your blood vessels. Just two capsules each morning will power energy and recovery while also playing the long game by supporting long-term vascular health and healthy aging. Human has an exclusive offer for our listeners. You can visit human.com slash stoic for an extra 15 % off your first purchase. That's enter code S-T-O-I-C stoic at checkout.

1:01:14That's human with two N's dot com slash stoic for an extra 15 % off with code stoic at checkout. Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns.

1:01:53There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in. We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course, because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour.

1:02:31And of course, this is stoicism, too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you. Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

1:02:58In the book, Churchill says, like he says, the most important thing that like a important, powerful, busy person can have, he says, you have to have one or two hobbies and they have to be real. Right. It has to be you can't be listening to classical music. It has to be playing classical music. It can be looking at paintings. It has to be doing paintings. And it can't be watching sports. It has to be running or biking or playing. Like you have to do something that gets you, if not active, that gets you lost. Like there's this scene. I talk about it in my talks, but Churchill is staying at the White House and he walks into the Oval Office.

1:03:37It's late at night. And he sees FDR. and FDR is going through his stamp collection. And Churchill would have understood this immediately. Even if he thought collecting stamps was a dumb hobby, he would have understood why FDR was doing it and what he was getting out of it. Because Churchill's other hobby was bricklaying. He would lay bricks on his property. And if you go, you should go to Chartwell. You can go to his estate in the English countryside. And it's ringed by this brick wall that he built. And one of the buildings is his art studio. And you can see what this guy, especially in the years that he was kind of exiled or in the wilderness, as he said, that this is where he spent his time.

1:04:21This is what, this is how he processed his frustrations, his anger, his, his impatience. This is how he thought about his plans for the future. Like he would not have been able to emotionally withstand the stress of the 1930s and the 1940s without these positive adaptive coping mechanisms that he picked up. You know, on another subject, I read in Wall Street Journal, AM radio is dead. All the car companies are cutting it out, saying it interferes with electrical in the electric cars or whatever. This, I think, one man's opinion, I think is it. Is it. I think news is going away because of AI. Yeah.

1:05:15I think, what is it, Doug, I read 52 % of Americans read on a seventh grade level. So reading is not going to be what it was. It'll always be there. But this, Joe Rogan right now has a video, AI video, of him interviewing Stephen Jobs. Yeah, yeah. And you can barely tell that it's not real. I know. Soon it will look absolutely real. But this, at a certain time from a certain place, you have a guarantee it's going to be real. You can't fake it. And an hour, you don't have the time. I wanted your interviews to be longer. Yeah, I know. I do like listening to those two-hour ones. But one, yeah, I don't totally have the time to do it.

1:06:16And then two, I feel a little weird imposing, like asking for that much time for people. People are going to get testicles. You want to talk to me? Sure, I'd love to. And it's only for an hour. And you're talking three hours later in there. Yeah. And I was in Vietnam. And then I painted a pulp. And shit. Shit. It is funny. Audiobooks have had a similar impact in that I hear from people that they were like, I didn't read books until audiobooks. And I think there's some authors and writers and publishers that have a kind of a snobbish view of that. But I think by whatever means you take in the information, more power to you.

1:07:06I think there is something special about reading. like you're here, you're reading this book, you've taken notes. I think that you have a highlighter. To me, that is the way, the best way to get what an author has done. But listening to them on podcasts, watching videos of them, you know, listening to audiobooks, whatever gets you out of your comfort zone, engaging with material, absorbing big ideas, I'm all about. I agree. And the main, most of the books I read now, I heard on a podcast. Yes, yes. It's probably the biggest driver of discovery. Oh, really? Yeah, sure. Go get a book. Well, because if the person can keep you engaged for an hour or two, the chances of them being able to deliver that in a book are pretty high.

1:08:02Whereas conversely, if I listen to my podcast, I'm like, this person's annoying. This person's wrong. This person has no idea what they're talking about. I'm not going to go get the book. So it's a nice way to – like I was just in New York and I did two – like I did CBS this morning, which was a super cool opportunity to reach lots of people. I had five minutes. I had five minutes and I was asked questions by four or five different people. That's like how can I explain something I've been thinking about for years? How can I explain a whole school of ancient philosophy in 12-second sound bites?

1:08:36But in a podcast like when I did Rogan, when we talked for two and a half hours, you can really go in depth on something. You really can. You really can. It's a much more conducive medium. I'm probably swayed way too much towards podcasts because before the accidental radio show, my ego wouldn't fit in this room. I was an asshole egotist. I wrote a book about this. when I did the radio show first 10, first 20, first 30 shows were Ryan what do you think and you said oh no wait a minute I don't detail that and then it was Ryan I disagreed and I'd come off and I'd have my staff meeting and they'd say kind of kicked your ass didn't he what do you mean well you said that and he said you're wrong And you didn't have anything to come back.

1:09:43Yeah. Okay. So you better prepare for the. And then finally it got to a point where just shut the fuck up. Ask them a question. If you disagree, ask it in a question and listen and learn. Yeah. And that was my introduction to critical thinking. I don't know what critical thinking was. Well, you may be the only person to have a media platform to go that direction because it's usually the exact opposite. There's this David Foster Wallace essay about talk radio hosts. Have you read it? Yeah. And he's like, just go sit in front of a microphone and try to talk for 20 minutes. the the ego you have to have and the self-absorption you have to have to think not only do i deserve this but that just me pulling thoughts out of my ass is interesting to millions of people like like that's really like when you think about like limbaugh or these other radio hosts their secret skill it's not the sound of their voice it's their their self assurance that they deserve two hours directly in the ear of millions of people just reacting to fucking news as it's happening.

1:11:06The reason I got pushed in the critical thinking was, janitor, okay, TV, you're talking a piece of glass with the words flowing past you. Sure, yeah. You're just a teleprompter. Takes no fucking brains. You got a lot of hair, you're average looking, you're good to go. Getting the corporations, if you have a good idea that makes money, you're good to go. You get in a radio talk show, they ain't no prompter. They ain't nobody sitting there a partner to fill the dead air. Yeah. Ain't nobody, if you're interviewing somebody on quantum physics, to go ask them about the double. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to be interesting, to be not just interesting, but so interesting, they'll sit through the next commercial break and watch you do it again and not turn the dial.

1:12:05Because you got to, I learned, okay, this is hard. Yeah. If you shut up and listen and you go, so I thought so-and-so, is that right? No, it's not because ABC. Sure. Okay. And by little, I was getting educated because I no longer was doing a show to show by how tough I was or who I was. I was doing a show to teach me something. I don't understand. There's an Epictetus line, it's impossible to learn that which you think you already know. And that's what's wrong with the world today. Of course, yeah. I called them when I had the radio show, I used to piss off two million people. Demidones and Republicans.

1:12:59Yeah. Because it's just cults that are built to echo chamber, everything you thought is right. Yeah, what does my party think of this issue? That's what I think of that issue. And with critical thinking, you can't join the club. Sure. You can't get into an echo chamber because you're not looking to see how right you are. Sure. You're looking to see where you're wrong. Yeah. It took me about 30 years to read that part. So the final part of your story is these medical issues you've had since, right? Is there one? Well, so it's not like it's been smooth sailing up until now, but then it's also not like it's been smooth sailing since.

1:13:50You had a bunch of health issues like the last couple of years, right? Isn't that why you had to leave the radio show and some other stuff? Yeah, I want to show you something. I'm a robot. Okay. What is that? Okay. All right. This is my voice now. Yeah. Okay.

1:14:11This is my voice now. What's happening? This is my voice now. What is that? I have two computers in my brain. There's a battery here. Oh, I'm feeling that electrical surge go through me. I have to turn my brain off at night and on during the day because the electrical charge gets too much for the brain. You've got to have a rest. Yeah. And what is that? What happened? You know Robert Kennedy? Yeah. Junior or whatever. He has essential tremor. That's what's wrong with his voice. Oh. Wow. As when I was on radio, I type, and I noticed my hands starting to tremble a little bit. Uh-huh. Then I noticed the voice coming up and down.

1:15:07And then we started getting calls from people saying, is he okay? I went to Mayo in Minnesota. They said, you have something called essential tremor. And if we don't operate, you won't be able to feed yourself. if you want to be able to walk, won't be able to talk. Worse version of Parkinson's. In a five-hour operation where you're wide awake and they drop two computers in your brain and everything's okay. I mean, I can paint. I can do that. Before it was that. It's never easy with you, is it? No, no, no. No, here's the best part. Last year, you're going to think I'm so full of shit. Last year, I developed, I see a scar?

1:16:01Yeah. I developed a little white spot and a white spot on my tongue. Went to the doctor and said, you got cancer. You did a biopsy. Yeah. And I said, well, what do we do? Chilling with therapy or what? Because I've had cancer before. Something we just skipped over. Yeah. He said, now you've got three to six months to live. What? I said, okay. So I made the tour of the country, said goodbye to all my friends, came back, went to him again. He said, well, it's an omission. I don't know how it's going to stay. September I go to him. He comes back. He does another bopsy. He says, maybe two to three months to live now.

1:16:46I've got a guru in Florida. She's a female. And she does all this Kiefer and stuff that I've never had COVID. And I think it's because of her. And I tell her about it. She says, you can self-hypnotize, can't you? I said, yeah, I do it all the time. Wait, what's that? Self-hypnotism. Yeah. Where you hypnotize yourself. Okay. I know how to do that. Oh, all right. Because one of the top hypnotists in the world was Dad Me Ewing out of New York. I'm New Orleans. He was a bone surgeon. But he got interested and wrote a book that thick. I saw him on the Today Show. Went to him to stop smoking cigarettes.

1:17:35Told him I thought hypnosis was bullshit. He said, let me try it anyway. And it worked. Then he taught me how to do it myself. So my guru says, I'm going to send you a tape of a neuroscientist doing a TED Talk about placebo. Placebo effect. She's done a major study with MRIs and CT scans. Said, won't you go ahead and self-hypnotize it and every day tell yourself you're going to have cancer. I said, come on, Jennifer. She said, what have you got to lose? I said, all right. So I started doing that. And a doctor friend calls and says, look, I'm saying what you got. Let me cut it out. That may give you two, three, six, eight months along with your wife and daughter.

1:18:25I said, all right. No, stick with the hypnotism. Yeah. So we go. I've been doing that for three months. So we go and he does the surgery. And we go back. We take stitches out. I said, doc, do you find a lot of cancer? meet him by a little bit. He said, go on, there's no cancer. You're like the luckiest slash unluckiest person of all time. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I mean, it's true story. I am fucking cancer free. I had two doctors in Houston that the best of the best say, you're gone. We can't do chemo, nothing. And I go home and... What was before Before the magical miracle treatment, how did you take that?

1:19:19I was good. Yeah? Yeah. The second time I got here, I got hit in the lower stomach or shrapnel. I thought I'd have my dick blown off because it was just all blood and guts. Well, you don't get much more scared than that. Sure. I thought I was going to die. I got a helicopter out and the whole thing. I thought I was going to die when I got this too. So I've come near death so many fucking times that this is kind of like, okay, okay. It's a great life, very unusual life, and an old fart time ago. It was my family took it hard, but I was, it was like somebody said, once somebody screamed, I said, yeah.

1:20:07That was it. And then what's the feeling when it's not there anymore? Is it the same? Is it total even keel either way? No. When you're told you don't have it, you go, what the fuck am I going to do now? Huh. Because your brain went, life is over. Yeah. You say goodbye. Right. When total are you friends? Bye-bye. And now you go, so what do I do now? Yeah. And if it wasn't for painting, I don't know what I'd do, sit around and drool. But I work out five days a week with weights and bikes and jogging and 80 years old and strong as an old fart can be, and I don't have any health problems. I mean, I got a fucking remote in my pocket to turn my brain on and off.

1:21:07I was with a group of people at UT a couple of months ago, and they were talking about AI. And I said, you know, I think eventually we'll have so many replacements and we'll be like robots. And they said, no, come on, it's never going to get it. And I said, you don't think so? I said, how about hips? Sure. How about heart? Yeah. How about all the repleturing do now? And I went, how about this? And I did that bit in the, what the fuck? I said, I'm a robot. I'm a walking, talking robot. Sure. I mean, so when I look at... You live long enough to become a robot. That's right. When I look at chemicals and electricity, I really wonder.

1:22:04I used to put people in categories. I like them. They're my book. Now I go, I don't know what their chemistry is. I don't know what their electricity is. Or maybe just who they are right now. Maybe they'll be different after they work out. Maybe they'll be different after the postpartum depression leaves. Maybe they'll be, you know, who knows? I heard you in your podcast that they say, I handle stress, I just go, I go run. Yeah. And I thought, Rogan says it all the time. Motherfucker, go to the gym, go run. I'm dealing with this right now. I'm not writing as much. I'm not working on a book right now.

1:22:48And so I'm noticing that clearly I developed that practice to function as a human being. And so when I stopped doing that, other stuff comes up. It's not, again, it's not as maladaptive as drinking or getting into fights, but it keeps me regulated. And so when you take away that source of regulation, then you have to figure out either you're okay being unpleasant to be around or I've got to figure out some substitute or some way to deal with whatever the underlying thing is. is, and this is, I think, where hobbies obviously come in, because the nice thing about a hobby is that like, you know, your professional success is going to rise and fall.

1:23:36But the hobby, painting or running or woodwork or whatever it is, it's always there. And it doesn't, it's not about winning or losing or recognition or sales or, you know, any of that. It's just always there. And something you love like writing, painting, music, the thing I like best about, I never like being the same. Sure. I don't paint like that anymore. Right. I do here, in here, in here. I've got to grow. Yeah, I've seen your art is very diverse and it's gone through. I've got to grow. I've got to change. And that goes back to the obstacle is the way. Sure. Because if you don't, you're going to hit this, well, trying this new form of pain kind of looks like shit.

1:24:28Yeah. You keep it and you go, well, that's not bad. Right. You may not use it, but you use a piece of it. Mm-hmm. Well, if you don't go to the obstacle. Sure. You never get there. It keeps the ego at bay too, because if you stick to where you feel good, right, you're always puffing yourself up. But if you go to where you're not good, where you're uncomfortable, where you're challenged, even if you don't get great at that thing, you have the benefits that come from being a student, from being humbled. You know, so you have to constantly be seeking out. You have to go towards the harder way to do it or the different way to do it.

1:25:10Absolutely.

1:25:14Again, that book, not because you wrote it. I gave it to my daughter. And I said, the minute you get comfortable and a little bored at work, think about another job. Think about disrupting your life. Even if you fuck up, think about doing it because I told your mother and I are sitting here with enough fuck you money to be retired and I paint and she hikes and you have a nice life in Austin. But if I hadn't, I'm a janitor, I'm a lie about TV, I'm a good corporation that hates me. All the good stuff's on the other side of the risks and the gambles. That's it. The obstacle is the way. That ought to be a fucking book they teach in school.

1:26:07I'm serious. Because it's really critical thinking should be the way. Yeah. Because if you're not hitting an obstacle, that means your ego is taking you through what the obstacle is. Yeah, there's a John Wheeler quote. He's a physicist. He said, as your island of knowledge grows, so does the shoreline of ignorance. So as you learn stuff, what it should be doing is exposing you to stuff you don't know. Like as soon as I hear about a new writer, let's say like a new author, I read something and then I go, not only did I not know about this person, now that I know about this person, I'm learning all of their influences, all the like, and so suddenly you get thrust into this new world where you're exposed to all these things that you didn't even know that you didn't know.

1:26:57And that's the process that helps you sort of get exponentially better, right? Because if you're just sort of putzing around in your little paddock of comfort or familiarity, every once in a while you bump into something that you don't know. But if you're patrolling the edges, those edges are getting wider and wider each time you're being exposed to more and more things. And not only is that self-fulfilling, you're always learning more and more things, but you never become an egotist or an asshole. You never think you know it all because every day you're just waking up and you're being constantly reminded of all the things you don't know.

1:27:34Yes, exactly. If I had a point in my very strange life as to what was the best part, be radio talk. Yeah. Because, I mean, within two, three months, my ego was gone. and all I could think of is, okay, I got a guy coming on, we're going to talk physics. Going home for six hours, read everything I can and ask him. It wasn't about telling him what I knew. Sure. I'd go and learn him from him. I didn't know that. Sure. God damn. You know, I don't know if you've seen this, but if you're talking here, there's real power to it. People are listening in the car or iPhone with the jogging or whatever. If you go to a cocktail party and you say the same thing, I used to tell people all the time on a radio show in New Orleans, I'd do three hours on quantum physics.

1:28:45And when I got through here, I had the guests that read it. I thought, boy, it was brilliant. We were at a cocktail party. I said, guys, you hear the pecan thing? No. What happened? I mean, five minutes. Can I get your drink, Garland? I just remember I got to burn my hemorrhoids out. I got to leave for a second. I mean, this, there's something about it that makes a mystery or something. There's power to it. Well, I'm very glad we finally got to do this. Yes. And I got to return the favor. Yeah, yeah.

1:29:26Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. I'll see you next episode.

1:29:48Look, ads are annoying. They are to be avoided, if at all possible. I understand as a content creator why they need to exist. That's why I don't begrudge them when they appear on the shows that I listen to. But again, as a person who has to pay a podcast producer and has to pay for equipment and for the studio and the building that the studio is in, it's a lot to keep something like the Daily Stoic going. So if you want to support a show but not listen to ads, well, we have partnered with Supercast to bring you a ad-free version of Daily Stoic. We're calling it Daily Stoic Premium. And with Premium, you can listen to every episode of the Daily Stoic podcast completely ad-free, no interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for.

1:30:42And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're going to have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you want to remove distractions, go deeper into stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium, and we are offering a limited time discount of 20 % off your first year. Just go to dailystoic.com slash premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.