How Stoicism, Eastern Philosophy, And Fitness Work Together

0:00You know, you don't have to let big wireless and your overpriced phone bill suck the joy out of the holidays this year. because right now all of Mint Mobile's unlimited plans are 50 % off. You can get three, six, and 12 months of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month. It's their best deal of the year, and it makes it really easy for you to give your expensive wireless bill the Scrooge treatment. All Mint plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text at the nation's largest 5G network. Plus, you can bring your current phone and number over to Mint. Actually, we just signed up for a Mint Mobile plan to use the social media phone here at the office and we didn't notice any kind of change in the quality of service or network or any of that just a whole bunch of savings turn your expensive wireless present into a huge wireless savings feature by switching to mint shop mint unlimited plans at mint mobile.com slash six that's mint mobile.com slash six limited time offer upfront payment of 45 for three months 90 for six months or 180 for 12 months plans required 12 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term only greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy capable device required.

1:02Availability, speed, and coverage very easy meant mobile.com. I got an amazing night sleep last night. One, because my six-year-old fell asleep in the car at like six o 'clock and he transferred him from the car seat to the bed and it stuck, which is just magic. So he's in bed way earlier than normal. But I sleep really well every night because I have a 8Sleep Pod 5 Ultra, which is 8 Sleep's best product. I've used 8 Sleep for many years now and it's just totally transformed how I sleep, made me sleep better, made my wife sleep better. It's amazing. So basically 8 Sleep is this topper that goes over your mattress.

1:41It can heat and cool both sides separately. It can raise and lower each side separately. So it helps you fall asleep faster, stay asleep and then wake up better. Eight Sleep buzzes me to wake gently every morning as opposed to some loud blaring alarm. And then I can check the app and it tells me my sleep score. It even helps me optimize my day based on how I slept. If you want to survive the holidays like a pro and just generally sleep better, head over to eightsleep.com slash Daily Stoic and use code Daily Stoic to get$350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra. The best part is you still get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it, but I know you will.

2:26Trust me, your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep, shipping to many countries worldwide. See details at 8sleep.com slash Daily Stoic.

2:38Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

3:21Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. Back. I've talked about this before, but I'm fascinated by the intersection of Stoicism and other schools of philosophy. Obviously, I was introduced to Stoicism first. That's what I sort of fell in love with, and then I've gone on and studied Zen Buddhism. I've read the Bhagavad Gita. I'm fascinated with any ancient text of wisdom, of the warrior ethos, of the guide to the good life. And so I'm always looking for opportunities both to take in ideas from other schools and also take the ideas from the Stoics and introduce them into different cultures, into different regions.

4:02I haven't got to travel as much to give talks about stoicism outside the United States as I used to. But back in May of 2022, I gave a talk to a company called CureFit in India. They have more than 500 fitness centers and gyms all across the country. They had over a thousand employees on this sort of all hands-on virtual talk that we did. Of course, it would have been amazing to be there in person. It was not logistically feasible at the time, so we did it remote. I gave a nice 30-minute talk on how we apply stoicism to physical activity, how we apply stoicism to leading a big company, how we apply stoicism to getting better as people and as leaders.

4:50And that's what I'm going to bring to you today, get a little glimpse into this interesting health and wellness company, how stoicism connects to these different cultures, how I tried to make it relevant to them. And you can be a fly on the wall and listen to that. Thanks to CureFit for having me out or having me on and enjoy this interview.

5:27Well, I, of course, wish I was with all of you in person. I was just explaining I've never had the privilege of coming to India. I wish I was there with you in person, although I will say I was not unhappy to miss the flight. One of the benefits of COVID, of course, is that it's allowed us to reimagine how we do certain things. And I always try to look for the positive side of things. So the fact that I just put my kids to bed, came back to the office, and here I am talking to you all the way across the world, that is a miracle of technology and innovation, just as I imagine you guys have had to find and create certain miracles in your business as COVID has created a number of challenges, but we might say also opportunities at the same time over the last two and a half years.

6:21But now that I do have you, what I want to talk about today is ancient philosophy, specifically Stoicism. And I know ancient philosophy, again, specifically a philosophy like Stoicism, it probably doesn't seem like it has that much to do with fitness, right? Philosophy, fitness, they're supposed to be on total opposite ends of the spectrum. But of course, that's not only not true today, but it wasn't true in the ancient world. In fact, there's a great Latin expression that I love, mens sana incorpora sano, which basically means a strong mind in a strong body. The philosophers weren't these academic geniuses and then physical weaklings.

7:10In fact, they had to be good at both. And specifically in Stoicism, the physical practice was a key part of what made the Stoics great. Cleanthes, an early Stoic, trained in boxing. He was a boxer. And we can imagine that his training in the ring also prepared him for the fights and arguments and battles of philosophy. Chrysippus, another early Stoic, was a sprinter. And we can imagine in moments that he was tired, that he was frustrated, that he didn't know if he had what it took. He could remember what he learned about himself on the track, that you have to push past those reservations. You have to cultivate that will, that inner strength.

7:56And then specifically, one of my favorite Stoics is a guy named Epictetus. Epictetus is born a slave, and he becomes one of the most powerful and important of the Roman philosophers. he would talk about weightlifting and he talks about weightlifting so specifically that to me, there's no denying that he had this practice. But he says he uses weightlifting as a metaphor quite often in his talks. And he would say, the weightlifter who lifts weights, if you said, oh, you've been lifting weights, show me your muscles. He said, you wouldn't want to see the muscles, he says, you want to see what the person could do, what they could lift, right?

8:40To me, he's talking about functional fitness there, right? That we don't pursue health and wellness to impress other people to look beautiful, although that can be a byproduct. He says, we do it because it makes us better at what's important. And one of my favorite lines from Epictetus, again, talking about physical fitness. He says, if you want to be beautiful, he says, make beautiful choices, right? And so to me, that's what you put in your body. That's what you subject your body to. That's what you're chasing after. It's not, again, impressing people. It's not vanity. It's the things that make a real difference that make you better.

9:23So as we talk about Stoic philosophy tonight, I wanted to give you the three disciplines of stoic philosophy. And I think this is a discipline particularly well-suited to what we've faced over the last two years, but what we all face as entrepreneurs, as leaders, as people operating a business, as people trying to help other people in this world, is that we run into resistance. We run into obstacles. And the Stoics would say that the first and most critical discipline in life is the discipline of perception. How we see things, how we perceive things determines what we're going to be able to do about those things.

10:04Epictetus has this quote, and I actually saw it on the wall of a spring training facility for a baseball team that I spoke to a few years ago, the Pittsburgh Pirates. They like this quote so much they put it on the wall. Epictetus says, you have to remember, it's not things that upset us. It's our opinion about things, right? So the world is objective. It simply is. And then we have an opinion about those things. And so understanding that our opinion is this kind of superpower that we have, it's deterministic, is the most critical part of Stoic philosophy. So, and I'm sure you guys have encountered this, people like this in your centers all the time.

10:48If someone doesn't believe it's possible for them to make progress, if they don't believe that they are capable of changing, of growing, of improving, of getting better, of getting faster, of getting stronger, it's of course impossible. If a business doesn't think that they can solve problems, if they think they've hit the ceiling of their growth, if they don't understand that they have agency, that they have control over how they respond to things, of the changes that they make. They're obviously not going to make changes. Now, of course, just because you believe you can do something doesn't mean that you can.

11:25I can believe all I want that I can dunk a basketball, but I'm not tall enough to do it and it's probably not going to happen, right? But if we don't believe we have the capability, the capacity to do something, it's not going to happen. So this is really the first part of Stoic philosophy, this understanding of what parts of this equation do I control and what parts of it do I not control. And the focus then on what I do control, the stoic focuses on what's in my control. Epictetus says that's our first job. What part of this is up to me? What part of this is not up to me? And so we find out that we have to focus there.

12:07We have to focus on the part of the dichotomy of control that is up to us. I would say that for me, the discipline of perception, which you might also say is the discipline of perspective. How do you see this? How do you understand it? How do you interpret it? This is this key part. I happen to find that running, which is the physical activity I do most often, swimming being the other, biking being the other, I find that I get the most clarity about the world and about my life when I'm being active, when I'm pushing myself. Seneca says that we have to treat the body rigorously so it's not disobedient to the mind.

12:45I love that idea. This idea that we're challenging ourselves, that we're deciding who's going to be in charge, right? Our emotions, our reactions, our fears, or that part of ourself that can get better, that wants to get better, that wants to improve. What part of ourselves is going to be in control? I was at a gym here in the United States a few years ago, and I was just getting in the pool to go swimming and someone recognized me and they said, oh, you know, I loved your last book. And I said, well, if you would believe it, I actually wrote that book in this pool. I was about to get in the pool.

13:20And they said, what are you talking about? How could you have written this book in the pool? But it's true. I would write in the mornings. I would try to focus on what I'm doing. I'd get as far as I could. And then when I was stuck, when I was struggling, I would drive down the street, go to the gym and I would swim. And there in the pool, being active, putting myself in a flow state, away from the screens, away from the noise, away from work, I would often unlock certain ideas or insights that would allow me to do what I did better. So for me, the discipline of perception is this critical first step.

13:53How do we see things? What's the story that we tell ourselves about these things? Are we focusing our energy on our efforts on what we control. And then that leads to the second, and I would say equally critical discipline, which would be the discipline of action. This is discipline number two. Action, of course, is what we do in response to what we perceive. Of course, you don't manifest losing weight. You don't manifest growing the business. You don't manifest breaking through with a client or hitting a new PR in the gym. You get there through work. One of the great American presidents, Theodore Roosevelt, would talk about the strenuous life.

14:41The strenuous life to me is the life of action, not talking about it, which a lot of people do, not dreaming about it, which a lot of people do, but doing it, which far fewer people do. People want to be stronger. They want to be faster. They want to start a business. They want to write a book. But you can tell how badly they want it by where they put themselves. One of my writing friends and heroes, a guy named Steven Pressfield, he says, you have to put your ass where your heart wants to be, right? Sit in the chair and write. Go to the gym. Get on the treadmill. Get in the pool. Sit with the trainer.

15:24And this is not just true for breaking through in terms of our physical fitness. But if we want to be smarter, if we want to be in a position of leadership, if we want to expand our parts of our business, are we actually getting there, putting ourselves in a position to do that thing? The Stoics say, don't talk about your philosophy, embody it, right? Don't dream about it, be about it, as we say. One of my favorite quotes comes from one of the earliest Stoics, actually the founder of Stoicism, Zeno. He says, how do we get better? How do we grow? He says, well-being is realized by small steps, but it is no small thing.

16:06So this idea that we get better, we improve, we grow, we claw ourselves out of a hole, a crisis, a problem, an issue of trust, a setback. How do we do it? By really small steps. There's a great writing rule, again, that I love that says, look, the secret to writing a book is just four crappy pages a day, right? So don't dream about doing this whole big, enormous transformative thing about being perfect. Just try to make a positive contribution every day. That's how I think about my books. I say, did I make a positive contribution today? That could be adding one note card. That could be editing one sentence.

16:49That could be reading one book, it could be writing 20 pages in a sprint of inspiration. But the point is, you make a small bit of progress every day, and this adds up. Many Mickles makes a muckle is an old English saying, right? Stuff adds up, the work adds up. You guys see this every day with people, the person who shows up every day and does a little bit is the one that gets better than the one who dreams of transformation or goes in and does some amazing, enormous workout, but they only do it one time, right? The person who's obsessed with some PR, they get heavy, but they're not doing the reps.

17:30This is the person that doesn't get better. So we can call this the process, right? We tend to focus on outcomes, where we want to end up, how hard it's going to be to get there, how wonderful it's going to be to get there. The Stoics say, you know, focus on the process. And I think the Stoics and other traditions are aligned here. You focus on the work, not the rewards. As it says in the Bhagavad Gita, you're entitled to the work, not the fruits of the work. You're not entitled to the outcome because you don't control the outcome, the Stoics would say. But you are in control of whether you showed up today, whether you put in the work, whether you had fun putting in the work, whether you were present while you put in the work.

18:22Again, I think about this when I write. I don't know how my books are going to sell. I don't know if they're going to hit the bestseller list. I don't know if people are going to like them or not. But I know I was successful if I did my best, if I put everything that I had into it, if I showed up. And then if I am successful, if there is the external rewards, that's extra. But I don't expect it and I don't feel entitled to it.

18:53The world is full of tours. But you don't choose a Toyota truck to follow the beaten path. You choose it to find the places in between. The detours, where each adventure pulls you toward the next. And wrong turns turn out right. So why would you ever take a tour when you could take a detour? Toyota Trucks.

19:27That leads to the third and the final discipline of stoicism that I wanted to talk about. that I think this idea that we're not entitled to the rewards, what that implies is that sometimes we do everything right, but we don't get what we wanted, right? We put in all the work and we didn't close the sale. We had a great year, but we didn't beat the numbers. We stuck to the diet, but we didn't hit that goal in time, right? We don't always get what we want. We don't always succeed. And the Stoics would say, this is why we have to cultivate willpower, what they call the inner citadel, the strength, the resilience, the fortitude that allows us to bounce back in the face of that adversity.

20:11There's this thing called post-traumatic stress, right? When we experience real adversity, real pain, real loss, real difficulty, and it's difficult to bounce back from that. But there was an interesting study of athletes done a few years ago. These are actually elite athletes in Canada. And they found that there isn't just a disorder coming from post-traumatic stress, but there's also such a thing as post-traumatic growth. And they found that often athletes came back from an injury, although maybe they were a little bit slower. Maybe they favored their knee or their arm a little bit as a result of the injury that they suffered.

20:50But they also maybe understood why they like the game more. They understood their teammates more. They studied the game more. So they came back better and stronger from what they went through. And so this idea of post-traumatic growth is what I want you to focus on, because that is something we control. We decide whether we're going to be made better for what we've gone through or worse. I wrote a note to myself. I was in the middle of opening my own business in the middle of COVID. I just started to open a small bookstore here in Texas where I live and everything went sideways. You know, we got hit very hard very early here in America with COVID.

21:29And I wrote a note to myself. I said, 2020 is a test. Will this make you a better person or a worse one? Will you grow from what you've gone through? Will you be improved by it? This is the choice that we have. The ability to bounce back from injury, from setbacks, from rejection, from disappointment. This is a key asset. This may be better than being fast, being strong, being brilliant. Can you be harder to discourage, harder to defeat, harder to turn away? Are you a person who grows from adversity? That's the kind of person that we want to cultivate being. The Stoics say that there isn't just the bad stuff that happens to us.

22:15There's just the stuff that happens to us. And they tried to cultivate what they called amor fati or a love of fate. Marcus Aurelius would say that what you throw in or on top of a fire becomes fuel for the fire, that it turns the stuff of life into flame and brightness and heat. And I'd like to cultivate that image in my life. Am I turning the events, the things that are happening to me into fuel, my becoming better and stronger as a result of my experiences. So those are the three disciplines of stoicism, the discipline of perception, discipline of action, the discipline of will. But I want to show you what they look like in practice.

22:58Marcus Aurelius, I mentioned, is the emperor of Rome. And he's trained his whole life for this opportunity. And he's there. He's doing a good job. And then if I could take you to the year 160 AD, a plague hits Rome. It's brought back by Roman troops from the frontier. They bring this plague back to Rome and it overwhelms Rome. It's a horrendous plague. Millions of people die. And Marcus Aurelius staggers under this a little bit. He says, it's unfortunate that this happened. But he tries to catch himself. He says, is it unfortunate that this happened to me or is it fortunate to happen to me? Am I strong enough to deal with this?

23:47What parts of this can I control? What can I do about it? And that's what he focused on. He gets medical experts. He puts them in charge. He continues his physical practice. He continues his study of philosophy. He doesn't run away. He just tries to do the best job that he can. And as it happens, the plague is not the only thing that he deals with. There's flooding. There's wars. There's a coup. It's one thing after another. And in fact, one ancient historian writing about Marcus Aurelius says, you know, Marcus Aurelius doesn't meet with the good fortune that he deserved. He said his whole reign was involved in a series of troubles.

24:27But that happens, right? Like the last two years, you could be like, it's been one thing after another. And maybe in your personal life, it's been going on even longer than that. There's been divorces and bankruptcies and health issues and everything you can imagine. It's being thrown at you one thing after another. But that ancient historian didn't stop. He said, yes, it's unfortunate that it's happened to Marcus, that his reign was one thing after another, that he didn't meet with the good fortune that he deserved. But he says, but I admired Marcus Aurelius all the more for this. He says, because he never lost command of himself or the empire.

25:10He survived and he was better for it. That's what we're trying to cultivate as stoics, as entrepreneurs, as leaders, as professionals in our field. We're trying to be the kind of person that is made better by what we suffer through, by what life throws at us, by what we have to endure. And how do we do that? We do it exactly as Marcus Aurelius writes in Meditations. He says the impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. He says the obstacle is the way. Everything that life throws at you, the resistance, the doubt, the struggles, the distractions, all of this is an opportunity to become who you were meant to be.

25:52Marcus Aurelius is not Marcus Aurelius without the floods, without the plague, without the coup, without the wars. He's great because of what he went through. If things had been ordinary, if things had been easy, if he'd gotten everything he wanted, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to be as great as he was. And so how do we, again, how do we do this? How do we take these trying times and turn them into opportunities? It's a three-part process. And Marx really summarizes those disciplines for us. He says, objective judgment now at this very moment. He says, unselfish action now at this very moment.

26:30He says, willing acceptance now at this very moment. Objective judgment, that's the discipline of perception. Am I seeing this clearly? Am I focused on where I can have influence, what I control? Unselfish action. That's the positive contribution that we're making today. That's being part of a team. That's focusing on how we can be of service, what we can do for others. It's moving the ball forward, not being discouraged. And then willing acceptance. This is the resiliency, the fortitude required to be like, it doesn't go my way sometimes. And it's hard, but I'm not going to quit. I'm going to accept what's not in my control.

27:07I'm going to endure this. I'm going to persevere through it. Objective judgment, unselfish action, willing acceptance. That's all that we need. Now, if I could add one last thing to this, it's a key stoic idea. And it's something I try to meditate on once a day. Marcus Aurelius writes in his meditations, he says, memento mori. He says, you could leave life right now. Let that determine what you do and say and think. And I keep this little coin on my desk. I carry it in my pocket. To me, the art of memento mori, the practice of this in stoic philosophy is a key part of all of those disciplines.

27:49We think of the fragility, the ephemerality, the shortness of life because it puts everything in perspective. As Seneca says, don't think of death as a thing in the future. Think of it as something that's happening right now. So don't leave anything unfinished. Don't leave anything undone. Don't waste a minute. That means being distracted or feeling sorry for yourself. Focus on what is in front of you. Focus on the opportunities in front of you. Focus on the people around you. Don't take anyone or anything for granted. But seize that moment now while you can. to be strong, to be creative, to be resilient, to be unstoppable, to do great and important work.

28:37This is what the Stoics are talking about. This is what Stoicism is about. It's not this dry, dusty thing. It's not this academic, impractical, abstract thing. It's something you can use every single day in whatever position of leadership or service you happen to be in. And it's what I try to apply in my writing practice, my physical practice, in my personal life, my entrepreneurial practices. And it's made me better, stronger, more resilient, more creative, and ultimately gotten me in better shape. So that's the connection between philosophy and fitness. It's been an honor to talk with all of you.

29:18And what I'm really looking forward to is answering your questions. And I appreciate the opportunity to chat with all of you.

29:31Thanks for listening to the Daily Stoic Podcast. Just a reminder, we've got signed copies of all my books in the Daily Stoic store. You can get them personalized. You can get them sent to a friend. The obstacle is the way you go is the enemy. Stillness is the key. The leather-bound edition of the Daily Stoic. We have them all in the Daily Stoic store, which you can check out at store.dailystoic.com.

30:08My family owns a 2023 Toyota 4Runner, and honestly, it's my favorite vehicle that I've ever owned. Around town, it's smooth and reliable, but where it really shines is on our trips into the backcountry. We've taken it on backpacking adventures to Colorado and New Mexico, loaded it up with gear, and never had to think twice about whether it could handle the terrain. That's what Toyota trucks are built for. Off-road confidence, rugged durability, and the freedom to explore. Toyota has a long history with the outdoor community, and they're committed to helping more people get out there and experience what nature has to offer.

30:38From remote trails to scenic byways, Toyota Trucks empowers you to take the detour, roam freely, and discover places that still feel wild and untouched. And they're not just making great trucks, they're working to expand access to adventure so more people can connect with the outdoors and pass that passion on to the next generation. Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. That's toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. Look, ads are annoying. They are to be avoided if at all possible. I understand as a content creator why they need to exist.

31:15That's why I don't begrudge them when they appear on the shows that I listen to. But again, as a person who has to pay a podcast producer and has to pay for equipment and for the studio and the building that the studio is in, it's a lot to keep something like the Daily Stoic going. So if you want to support a show but not listen to ads, well, we have partnered with Supercast to bring you an ad-free version of Daily Stoic. We're calling it Daily Stoic Premium. And with Premium, you can listen to every episode of the Daily Stoic podcast completely ad-free. No interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for.

31:58And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're going to have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you want to remove distractions, go deeper into Stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium, and we are offering a limited time discount of 20 % off your first year. Just go to dailystoic.com slash premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.