It Can Change Everything | A Real-Life Example of How to Build a Coaching Tree

0:00Ryan Holiday: When we open the bookstore, we have Tracy's down the street. One of the things that happens when you have a business is like, you get all these people that are trying to sell you these different products and services. Oh, this is the right platform. This is the right tool. This is what you should use. Most of it's not good. Most of it's a scam. Most of it doesn't help. But the most important choice we made with the Paint and Porch, other than physically where we were, was using Shopify. We have used Shopify for over a decade, first with Daily Stoic, now with The Painted Porch. It's a choice we've never regretted.

0:33Ryan Holiday: It's a major part of the business and we wouldn't have succeeded without it. They've grown with us over the years. We've grown with them for almost 10 years now. It's great. And we're not the only ones using it. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses and brands all over the world. They do 10 % of the e-commerce in the US from household names to Gymshark and Allbirds to little brands just getting started and little things in between like Daily Stoic. Everything is all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer service, which we have used many times at Daily Stoic and with The Painted Porch.

1:18Ryan Holiday: It's time to turn those what-ifs in to sales with Shopify today. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash stoic. Go to shopify.com slash stoic, shopify.com slash stoic. So this is like the best time of year in Texas. You know, the weather's getting good. You want to spend time outside. Our patio furniture is just like falling apart. So we're going to upgrade our little patio outside the house, our back deck at the ranch. and the first place we went to find some new chairs, a new rug, we're going to get a porch swing, was Wayfair. It's been wonderful. Get out there, enjoy the spring before it gets too hot, too crazy.

2:04Ryan Holiday: Delivery was super easy. Wayfair also has installation and assembly stuff so I could spend my time writing instead of getting angry at some frustrating instructions. Ordering online is easy. It's all delivered right to your door. Wayfair products have over 20 million verified five-star reviews to help you make the right call. And I recommend shopping with Wayfair Verified, your shortcut to the good stuff. Their team of product specialists vet everything by hand using a 10-point quality inspection so you know you're getting a great piece no matter your budget. Get prepped for patio season for way less.

2:38Ryan Holiday: Head over to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Way fair, every style, every home. Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world.

3:03Ryan Holiday: It can change everything. The right thing at the right time can change everything. Zeno discovered Xenophon's writings on Socrates in Athens and went on to found the Stoic School of Philosophy. It was just there this summer. The Stoipokile is where it all began. A young Marcus Aurelius was given a copy of Epictetus' lectures from his teacher's personal library and relied on that book for the rest of his life, even as emperor. James Stockdale was handed the same works by a professor at Stanford, and he'd used what he'd learned to survive seven years as a prisoner of war in the infamous Hanoi Hilton.

3:44Ryan Holiday: Aunt Tracy gave me a copy of Man's Search for Meaning when I graduated from high school, which in retrospect set me up perfectly a few years later when I was turned on to the Stoics. I've been raving about the novels and writings of James Salter lately. If you haven't read his book, The Hunters, it's great, so is his memoir, Burning the Days. But he has this great passage in his novel, Light Years. It says, the book was in her lap and she read no further. The power to change one's life comes from a paragraph, a lone remark. The lines that penetrate us are slender, like the flukes that live in river water and enter the bodies of swimmers.

4:22Ryan Holiday: When these paragraphs or pages come into our lives, they not only change us, they change the people around us too. How many people learned about stoicism from Marcus and Stockdale? What about the men in that prison camp that were saved by Stockdale's heroism? How many lives have been shaped, even saved by the ideas from a book given at the right moment? And I've been thinking about that here. It's graduation season, right? We have young people in our lives, nieces, nephews, sons, daughters, the children of our friends. And it's this entry point. It's a chance for something to enter their life that could stay with them that could change them?

5:03Ryan Holiday: Like what would you have wanted someone else to hand you at such a pivotal time in your life? Something that could have helped you stay grounded during your first big break or breakup to remind you that courage and discipline and justice and wisdom, the things you needed, they're there for the taking if you know how to develop them. So we thought we'd put together a couple quick recommendations along these lines to give people you love this graduation season. I'm going to give you a couple, and then I'm going to give you a couple sort of themed lists. I just did one on books I wish I read when I was younger.

5:40Ryan Holiday: I think I'll play that for you as well. But look, obviously, Mark Shreles' Meditations. This is a book that changed my life at 19. It's one I keep coming back to, one that I picked up on mornings and evenings and afternoons for the last two decades. I've read it hundreds of times because every time I read it, I get something new out of it. And I just think there's something immensely powerful about the thoughts of the most powerful man in the world. And I got it at the right time in my life. I wouldn't say I wish I got it earlier. I would say I wish more people got it that early. Of course, we have The Leatherbound and The Daily Stoic Store.

6:15Ryan Holiday: We also have The Daily Stoic box set, which is The Daily Stoic and The Daily Stoic Journal. You can grab all those. Two books I've been raving about recently, How to Be a Leader by Plutarch. Plutarch's actually grandson or grand nephew was the philosophy teacher of Marcus Aurelius. That's pretty cool. He was both a writer, a chronicler of history, and did some of the great biographies of Cato and Caesar, Cato's daughter, Portia Cato, Cicero, Demosthenes, the 300 Spartans. He wrote these great books and essays, mini biographies of some of the greatest men and women who ever lived. But he was also a politician himself.

6:50Ryan Holiday: I have a whole chapter in Wisdom Takes Work about Plutarch as both a writer and a doer. Speaking of which, a related recommendation on character by General Stanley McChrystal. I've loved that. He's a four-star general. And there's a bunch of stoic advice in there. I've been giving that to a lot of people. Also, just recorded an episode of the podcast with Senator Mark Kelly. And this is like literally five minutes ago. I'm walking to the bookstore and this mom comes in, her son is an athlete and has just gotten into reading. And I gave him a copy of The Way of the Champion by Paul Rabel. And I gave him a copy of Letters to a Young Athlete by Chris Bosch.

7:29Ryan Holiday: That's another timely one. I was lucky enough to work on both of those books. What else would I recommend book-wise? I'm trying to think, grad, in your life, somebody going through something. Oh, I like The Movie Goer by Walker Percy. That's sort of Catcher in the Rye for Adults. So Good They Can't Ignore You by Cal Newport. You know what? Let me just play the other books that I wish I'd read earlier. I'll play that for you now. Someone was asking me books that I wish I read when I was 18. I can think of a bunch. I did read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations at 19 and it changed my life. I think this is a book every young person should read so i'd start there robert green's mastery is a must read for anyone that age general mccrystal's on character as a young person you're obviously thinking a lot about success you're thinking about ambition but you should be spending more time thinking about what kind of person you're going to be so good they can't ignore you it's not about finding your passion it's finding the thing that only you can do i think every 18 year old should read autobiography of malcolm x not just the first part but the second part of the book is the important one I liked this book recently, Necessary Trouble by Drew Galpin Faust.

8:41It's a nice coming of age L 'Amour. Louis L 'Amour's Education of a Wandering Man.

8:46Ryan Holiday: Anyways, that's today's episode. The right book, the right time. How can you be the person that enables that? That's what today's episode about. And then let me get you to the rest of the show right now.

9:05Ryan Holiday: hey it's ryan welcome to another episode of the daily soic podcast uh i am exhausted i just got off the phone with my wife and she was like i'm so tired i'm like delirious we're both exhausted because we we went to the spurs game last night in san antonio and um it was an incredible game i don't know when you're listening to this this is we went to game two which was like a incredible blowout. My kids had an amazing time. They are also quite tired. Well, well past their bet time. But some of my fondest memories are playoff basketball games, going to see the Sacramento Kings when I was a kid. And so I had a chance to do that.

9:37Ryan Holiday: I've gotten to know the organization over the years. Manu Ginobili has read some of the books. I know R.C. Buford really well. He's been an awesome supporter of Daily Stoic and the Painted Porch and stuff. I was texting him about something because I was watching game one, or maybe it was the last game in the last series, I forget. But they were like showing the crowd and it was like showing the multi-generations of Spurs leadership and alumni. And I just sent him a message. I was like, it's so amazing to see that on TV. It just was really inspiring to see like this whole town and community coming together to support the team.

10:12Ryan Holiday: He said, you got to come out to a game. And I was like, I'm not going to ask you for playoff tickets. And he said, no, no, come sit in my box, bring your whole family. And so I did. And yeah, sitting there, Manu Ginobili is in the front row. Tim Duncan is right in front of us. Bruce Bowen is there. And then I'm looking down and I'm seeing Brian Wright, the GM. You're seeing Mitch Johnson, the coach, like organizations, for-profit organizations, politics, life, period. We don't do succession plans very well. There's an old TV show about this called Succession, right? But like other than, you know, Hadrian handing it to Antoninus, handing it to Marcus Rielis.

10:48Ryan Holiday: There's not a lot of great success stories in history of like a GM like R.C. Buford stepping aside so Brian Wright can take over, supporting him, it going well, right? The draft went beyond it, which is incredible. Watching this team go through a rebuild but not fall apart in the process is absolutely incredible. Then Greg Popovich, one of the longest serving coaches in NBA history, having some health issues, getting towards the end of his career, stepping aside, but staying in the organization. So Mitch Johnson can take over, who's now doing incredible. You know, Tim Duncan was briefly an assistant coach, which he was doing largely to support Greg Popovich.

11:35Ryan Holiday: Manu Ginobili still with the organization. All you need to know about the San Antonio Spurs is that in their new practice facility, which they just built a couple of years ago, they had to build an alumni locker room. Like even though San Antonio is a small market, even though these players have unlimited money, could live anywhere in the world, so many of them have stayed in Texas, stayed in San Antonio, and still come to the facility, even though they don't in some cases work there, but just want to be a part of the organization, want to contribute, want to be around the people. And by the way, the team wants them around.

12:08Ryan Holiday: It's just an incredible statement about cultural values. And by the way, this isn't just how they treat the players and the coaches. You know, I've had RC on the podcast. He came on when we were doing the Daily Stoke Leadership Challenge, and I wanted to do deep dive. He's now the CEO of the Spurs organization, which includes the arena and a bunch of other stuff. So he moved up to a bigger job, but it was also fascinating to watch the learning curve for that, how hungry he was to learn and develop new skills. I was talking to someone the other day who knew R.C. and I was like, but you're an AI expert.

12:46Ryan Holiday: And he's like, yeah, R.C. wanted to understand how to bring AI into the organization and that's what I'm teaching him. So here's a chunk from that episode, which I think is worth sharing. How do you think about that risk management of like, who do you think we can get to buy in and who is just doing their own thing and they're not a fit for the Spurs? I think we're probably more aligned with they're not a fit to the Spurs and haven't taken the risks that an organization like the Patriots have. They've got such structure and stability built up for so many years that there was a structure and a process and a system that they knew how to manage the risks that they did take.

13:27Pops got an expression, they am who they am, which is kind of like character is fate. And more often than not, your risks don't outperform the reward would be my guess.

13:44Ryan Holiday: Well, isn't there a certain amount of ego in that too? The idea that like we tell ourselves, I'm going to change this person, right? Like, no, everyone else failed because they're not as good as we are. they don't have this, you know, the idea that you're going to change someone or reform them. It can come from a place of compassion, but it can also feel like it comes from a place of ego. When you get in the way of yourself, ego is the enemy. You know, Manu brought me that book first. And there was so much that when you have failures, there's so much of that that is apparent and how you get in your own way.

14:28Ryan Holiday: One of the things you and I connected with specifically about Duncan and Tim Robinson, because I wrote a Daily Stoic email about it, but to me was a lovely illustration of the Spurs culture. When Tim Duncan was inducted into the Hall of Fame, he was saying, you know, people often ask him, what did David Robinson teach you about leadership and about being a good man and all these things? And he said, I don't think David Robinson ever had a single conversation with me about any of these things. He just embodied it day to day on the court. I just thought that was so beautiful. Not even day to day on the court.

15:06They both live their lives and hold themselves to standards that raise the standards of everybody around them. And, you know, in 19 years, Tim Dunkel was never late once to a practice, to a meeting. He wasn't doing that to demand that of anyone else. But what he demanded of himself raised the standards for all of us. David was very similar. David's impact in our community will live on for years because of the building blocks that he put in place that he'll never see the cathedral eventually finished. But he set such a great example and challenged us all to really care for each other.

15:49Ryan Holiday: And does that make it easier to create a culture when you have these sort of tentpole individuals who are embodying the ideas? You know, it's like if Tim Duncan won't let himself get away with this, who am I? Does it sort of allow you to create a culture around them? Well, I think they create the culture. We're people who work with them. But when you're best players, when you're leaders, when the people who are the examples for your organization and the community set the culture, then it's up to the rest of us to buy in and to take ownership of it in a way that we all want to build the culture together.

16:30Ryan Holiday: I think what's fascinating about the Spurs is that like, obviously, it's a dynasty. Obviously, it's a place that players wanted to go. I love Texas, but it's a relatively small market team or it was for many years. How did you create and make San Antonio a destination when you're not New York City or Los Angeles or whatever? It strikes me as one of the most impressive things that you guys that you've managed to do it, but create a culture where people not only wanted to come. But I mean, how many how many players still live in San Antonio? You know, how many players spent their entire careers there?

17:08Ryan Holiday: How did you think about creating something both sustainable and desirable in in the market that you were in? The sustainability of the success is built around the people and the people who others wanted to come play with. And then I think the structure that POP put in place, the community, one great thing about our community is that our community allows these superstar players to live their lives. And they don't have to live reluctantly going through life because they will get overwhelmed. And South Texas, Central Texas does a great job of letting people be who they are and supporting and sharing in their success in a non-judgmental and also a non-invasive way.

18:00Ryan Holiday: Sitting in the box also was a family whose kid worked in the video department. And I remember I was talking to R.C. one time, and this is going to connect to today's episode, but I was talking to them about the coaching tree of the Spurs organization. I was making the mistake that maybe you're making mentally right now, thinking about the coaches and the players. And he was like, no, no, no, I'm also really proud of what our salespeople have gone on to do, what our video people have gone on to do, what our stats people have gone on to do, what our marketing people have gone on to do. They see themselves as an organization that makes people, that grabs people that they think have potential, helps them realize that potential and understands that a lot of them are going to go on to somewhere or something else and then maybe come back at some point, which is also a key part of sort of the resiliency of the organization is that there's such a good landing place for talent and for people who have had an off year or been fired.

18:55Ryan Holiday: and people know that the Spurs will let you come back. And so it encourages them to try new things. It encourages them not to burn bridges, encourages them to speak positively about the organization. It just helps their reputation across the board. Anyways, the story I wanted to say is I remember one of the first Spurs games that RC had me come out to, getting in the elevator to go up somewhere. And I notice that the elevator operator has a championship ring on. And I go, what's that? And he goes, oh, the organization gives us all rings when we win a championship because we're all contributing.

19:29Ryan Holiday: The elevator guy saw himself as part of that Spurs organization, part of their coaching team, which is what is going to queue up today's episode. Seeing that sitting in that box, my kids getting to be a part of it was just absolutely incredible. And it confirmed something that I wrote about in Right Thing right now. I have a chapter in the book about coaching trees, specifically about Popovich, but I'm really speaking about the Spurs organization as a whole. And I wanted to bring you that today because it's something that changed my life. I'm part of the Robert Greene coaching tree. People who've worked for me are part of my coaching tree.

20:03Ryan Holiday: And it's changed how I think about success. I want to expand the definition of justice. Justice isn't just giving someone their due, like as far as consequences or whatever. whatever. It's how we think about what our duties and obligations are as human beings, as leaders, as executives, as entrepreneurs, as athletes, et cetera. So let me bring you that. And I want to thank RC again for the generosity. Also, he was one of the people that bought like a hundred copies of Right Thing Right Now when it came out. He does that for all the books and he gives them away. Just an incredible guy. It was an incredible experience.

20:40Ryan Holiday: And let's get into it. Grow a coaching tree. By all time wins, Greg Popovich is perhaps the greatest coach in the history of the NBA. When one adds to that his number of championships, five, his number of winning seasons, 22, his unbroken streak of playoff appearances, 22, his winning percentage, 0.657, his Olympic gold medals, two, and the fact that he did it all with one team, he may well be the greatest coach in the history of the game of basketball. But there is another metric besides wins and rings, less considered but more important, that should make the case for him as the greatest coach in sports, his coaching tree.

21:21Ryan Holiday: In sports, a coaching tree is defined by the coaches and players and executives that a coach has discovered, hired, and mentored, and what they go on to do in their own careers. Greg Popovich's coaching tree is so extensive, as one sports writer put it, that it's actually more like a coaching forest. In the course of becoming the longest tenured coach in all of the major professional sports leagues, Greg Popovich would take under his wing multiple Hall of Fame players like Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and Manuj Nobly, who not only made up one of the greatest dynasties in the modern NBA, but stayed in San Antonio and became leaders in their community.

22:00Ryan Holiday: At one point, nearly 30 % of all the coaches in the NBA had worked for or played under Popovich. and his protégés have independently won 11 championships as head coaches and one G League championship. Five times someone from his forest has been named the NBA coach of the year. Of the current 23 black head coaches and GMs in the NBA, seven spent time under Popovich at the Spurs. Becky Hammond, the 2022 WNBA head coach of the year, spent eight years with the Spurs, where she was the first female assistant coach in the NBA and the first to serve as an acting head coach after an ejected Popovich designated her his replacement.

22:43Ryan Holiday: And she won two straight WNBA titles as a coach too. And if one were to begin to trace out the coaching trees from the coaches in Popovich's coaching tree, you would touch nearly everyone in the NBA and NCAA basketball. It was this thought that struck Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA, during the 2022 finals, which pitted two coaches whom Popovich had coached, hired, and mentored against each other. The Spurs were more than just a basketball team, Silver said. They were practically an academy for future coaches and team executives. If Popovich was running an academy, a non-profit, mission-based educational organization, these accomplishments would be quite impressive.

23:27Ryan Holiday: The fact that he managed to do this while operating at the highest level of a cutthroat game where he's actually helping, if not producing, the competition. This is something he has done outside of his commitment to winning, both as an ideal and as an expectation of his employment. This is not the old boys club either with a bunch of people scratching each other's backs or one leader making identical replicas of themselves. No, it's the act of opening a door, extending a ladder to a diverse group of unique leaders, different types of athletes, coaches, and executives as they each reach to fulfill their own potential.

24:05Ryan Holiday: So as you look at your career, it bears asking, who have you given a shot? Who have you helped get ahead? More revealing how similar to you or unlike you were these people. Yet far too often, we are more interested in how to get someone to give us a shot or how to get another one or a bigger one or a better one. We think that by thinking about others, we jeopardize ourselves as if life or work was zero sum. Highlander syndrome says there can only be one. No, there is room for all of us to succeed, far more to succeed than currently are.

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27:19Ryan Holiday: George Marshall advanced in his career, was able to get to the top of his profession and do well there. precisely because he understood that his job was to help other people, to build an army full of talented officers. While other generals fought tooth and nail for their own advancement, wrote letters to their superiors lobbying for promotions or choice assignments, Marshall was advocating for promising young men like Omar Bradley and George Patton, Walter Kruger, and most of all, Dwight D. Eisenhower, whom he nurtured into history-defining talents. His coaching tree, you might say, was the oak upon which the allied victory depended.

27:56Ryan Holiday: In this life, of course, we are measured by our accomplishments as individuals. We strive to realize our potential and do our best. But after a certain point, this means only so much. What matters more, what matters over a longer horizon, is who we have helped to succeed along the way. To be clear, it's not just sports where a coaching tree counts. Socrates bought us Alceobides and Xenophon and Plato. Plato, in turn, brought us Aristotle and Aristotle Alexander. Emerson not only generously supported the literary scene in New England, but actively encouraged talent wherever he encountered it. I greet you at the beginning of a great career, Emerson gushed in a letter to a struggling Walt Whitman in 1855, which Whitman promptly added as a blurb in front of his then undiscovered self-published masterpiece, Leaves of Grass.

28:46Ryan Holiday: Without Emerson, the careers of Nathaniel Hawthorne, William Ellery Channing, Amos Bronson Alcott, and later William James, Emerson's grandson, and Alcott's daughter, Louisa May Alcott, would have gone very differently. Generosity is the seed of a great coaching tree. Thomas Wentworth Higginson, in addition to his work as an abolitionist, helped mentor and publish the poetry of Emily Dickinson. Frederick Douglass encouraged and mentored Ida B. Wells, whose anti-lynching work, as well as her work for women's suffrage and in helping to found the NAACP in 1909, were brilliant extensions of the legacy of Douglass, a man born into slavery in 1818.

29:26Ryan Holiday: Martin Luther King Jr.'s legacy is also burnished by the fact that John Lewis went on to become a congressman. Andrew Young became ambassador to the UN. Diane Nash won the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Denzel Washington paid for Chadwick Boseman to go to college. Walker Percy was adopted by his uncle Will, and then he in turn was a quiet mentor and teacher to the biographer Walter Isaacson. Percy also discovered and helped publish, posthumously, John Kennedy Tewall's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, A Confederacy of Dunces. George Carlin met a young Gary Shanling in a comedy club in Arizona in 1968, and after he read Shanling's Jokes Notebook said, I think you're funny if you're thinking of pursuing it.

30:09Ryan Holiday: Shandling, in turn, would mentor the director Judd Apatow, Kevin Nealon, Adam Sandler, and Sarah Silverman, alongside a generation of comedic talent in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. And what of the people these trailblazers never met, but whom their work influenced, whom their example inspired? This is true multi-generational impact, an infinite web of butterfly wings flapped, of lives changed, and better futures written. That's the thing. Not all of us have the power to change or improve the world within our own lifetimes. By supporting, encouraging, and influencing others, including our own children, our efforts can live on.

30:47Ryan Holiday: Mentor, patron, sponsor, ally, teacher, master, guru. Inspiration. There are so many names for it because it's a role defined by so many different roles. But what matters is that we are the candle that lights another, which lights another, which lights another, because through this whole worlds are illuminated and delivered from darkness.