Mel Robbins | What Would a Stoic Think About The Let Them Theory?

0:03Welcome to the weekend edition of The Daily Stoic. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these Stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal, and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring.

0:54Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. This is the first episode I am recording in the new year. Yesterday, we took a very frigid cold plunge in the Gulf of Mexico. I said that as it should be said. It was like 65 degrees. We try to start every year with the cold plunge. It's also the first day in the New Year New You Challenge, which I hope you are doing alongside us. My wife and kids and father-in-law all did it, as Seneca did 2 ,000 years ago, throwing himself in the Virgo aqueduct to start off the new year. This is where his quote about treating the body rigorously so that it's not disobedient to the mind comes from.

1:36It's also what we build the challenge around. It's not too late to sign up. We haven't closed it just yet. You can sign up at dailystoic.com slash challenge. We're already on to day two as I'm recording this. We're picking a stoic word for the year. It's going awesome. I'm loving the community. I'm loving seeing you all in there. And if you procrastinated a little bit, I hope you can still sign up and catch up very quickly. I'm getting ready for day three myself. Anyways, it's a new year. And I was reading this article in the New York Times about the best-selling books of the year. What had moved in publishing, what hadn't.

2:11And it's funny, I just had a call with my publisher about this. And my agent was saying the first sign of a recession is that Bible sales go up. He learned this for many, many years in publishing, and that was something confirmed in the article. So that was alarming. In slightly more positive news, there was a little section in the piece about Mel Robbins. And it was saying that Mel Robbins' book, The Let Them Theory, had sold 2.7 million copies in 2025, which is insane. That's roughly how many copies the Daily Stoic has sold in 10 years. So it's a monster hit. And in fact, I was in Greece this summer walking along a pretty desolate beach in Ithaca.

2:56And I saw the green cover and I said, oh, is that the Let Them Theory? And of course it was. And I sent a picture to Mel and she texted me back and she said, my daughter and I sat down and designed that cover to be something that would pop on a beach. And I said, well, mission accomplished. And we talked about this when she came out to Bastion Texas back in October. And we had a lovely session doing the podcast. And I'm excited to bring that episode to you. I'm going to split this up in two parts. So she came and sat in the studio. We had this conversation, which I am bringing to you now. And then we did a little walk through the bookstore and then we walked across the street to the Bastrop Opera House where we did a live podcast.

3:39I'll bring that later in the week. But for now, here is me and Mel Robbins talking about the Let Them Theory and stoicism, how the two connect with each other, how the two can inform each other. She passed along some interesting misconceptions about the Let Them Theory. She talked about why she's optimistic about the future amidst all the chaos in the world. And she was just awesome. I love this conversation. I think you're going to like it. If you don't know who Mel Robbins is, well, you should. She is the host of the Mel Robbins podcast, which is one of the biggest podcasts in the world. You've probably seen clips or heard audio from clips of them because they get repurposed on Instagram and TikTok all the time.

4:19She has sold millions and millions of books, and it is on pace to be the best-selling nonfiction book of all time. She's also the author of the multi-million copy selling, The Five Second Rule, The High Five Habit, and seven number one audiobook releases on Audible. It's nuts. You can follow Mel on all platforms. She is at Mel Robbins. We quickly sold out of all of the copies she signed of the Let Them Theory and The Five Second Rule, but we still have some copies of The High Five Habit at The Painted Porch. You can grab that. Thanks to Mel and her team. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Happy New Year.

4:58And I'll see you in the Daily Stoic New Year New Year Challenge. If you've already signed up, if you haven't, just grab it at dailystoic.com slash challenge.

5:09I didn't even know you have a book out right now. Tuesday. It comes out this Tuesday? No, no, last Tuesday. Last Tuesday. How's it going? What's it about? It's about wisdom. Okay. So I just finished this series on the cardinal virtues. So I did courage, discipline, justice, wisdom. So I've been working on it since 2019. 2019 and I just finished the whole thing 2019 yeah wow because it's four it was four books it was supposed to be four books in four years but I I stretched it out a little bit yeah so it's been a lot that sounds like it and how's it going good I think yeah I can't wait to read it so did you see the list this week no huh what's today today yeah it came out yesterday oh it did yeah so you're number one on number two fuck yes well unsee me yeah I know yeah I was thinking I'll let you have the number ones.

5:57Well, tell you what, I would love to see you at number one. I've done it before. I did it on the last one on Right Thing Right Now. That debuted at number one. So once you do it once, it's nice. But everything else is gravy from there. How do you think about that? Because I was like, I've done some work over the years of like not attaching so much to external stuff. But I do think like as far as like letting people do stuff, I think one of the things that people struggle with is letting other people succeed. Yes. Right? Like, obviously, you have no say over whether other people succeed, but letting it not bother you and letting your mind wrap around the idea that it's not zero sum.

6:37I feel like people struggle with that. People? Me, myself included. Like everybody. Yes. So there are so many things I want to say about that one question. Okay. Because in the question, you know, how do you deal with other people's success? How do you not let it bother you a lot? Of course it used to bother me. And I think the reason why other people's success bothers you and the reason why you get jealous of what other people are achieving is because there is a part of you that dreams of having those things and that you are also simultaneously probably blocking yourself from taking the actions to create it.

7:21or you are talking yourself out of it. Or, you know, the other thing that happens is, I think part of the success, particularly of the let them theory, is because there's so many things about this book that I can explain and I can't explain. And there's something magical about the timing of this. And there have been so many times in the past where I have watched somebody else succeed. I have watched somebody else be invited to interviews. I've watched somebody else's work be celebrated. And I have sat in the corner in my house and thought, how did they get that? Yes. What about me? Like, when's it going to be my there's something wrong with me.

8:02And in those moments, I would just say to myself, Mel, you know, you don't have a control over when things happen. Yeah. But you have control over what you do about it. Sure. And the definition of stoicism, basically. Well, I'm excited to talk to you because I feel like I wrote a book about stoicism without truly being a master of stoicism. I mean, it's basically stoicism, Buddhism, detachment. It's the core of several things, which is the idea of like there's some stuff that's up to you, some stuff that's not up to you. And your happiness depends on you figuring out the difference between those two things.

8:35Yes. And for most of my life, I did not know the difference. Yes. Between those two things. And so I was very unhappy and very self-critical. And I remember so many times when I kept thinking, when is it going to be my turn? And then you would start to go, it's never going to be my turn. And I feel as though I can sit here now and say, I actually understand why the success didn't come until now. Yeah. And I personally believe because it wasn't meant to. I was building in the dark and I was learning and growing and failing and preparing for the at-bat moment that mattered. And I see that very clearly now because this book is not only the best thing I have ever done and the thing I've worked the hardest at, I also know it's the legacy that I'm going to leave on the planet.

9:31Sure. And it is something that is happening at a moment when for so many people, life feels so out of control. And the simplicity of it, the timing of it is part of the reason why it's become such this magical phenomena. Yeah. Part of what you're missing when you're like, well, when is it my turn? Why is it happening to them? Not me. Is you you can't actually understand that there might actually be some future better moment that it's building towards. And that if you got what you think you wanted right now would actually not be as good as it could be. Yes. Well, this applies to dating, too, you know, that you kind of stay in something and tell yourself there's nothing better coming.

10:19Yeah. And you're afraid that there's nothing better, that the best days are behind you. And it's not true. And I don't say that because I think that just having a positive attitude is the way that you solve your problems. I say that because I know the settings in your mind. Yeah. Impact the biology in your body and they impact whether or not you feel encouraged to take the actions that change everything. I'll tell you a really good book story. So I remember when I first wrote my first book, The Five Second Rule, there was not a publisher that would touch it because I was nobody. And I had this dumb thing that while I was speaking about it on stages, you know, I didn't have a social media following.

11:01I didn't have much of a newsletter list unless you were related to me. You were getting emails from me. And this was back in the day where I kid you not, Ryan. So I'm the kind of person that when I want to win at something, I become a student of the thing I want to be the master of. And I obsess over what is everybody else doing? And then I figure out the formula and then I do what everybody else is doing, what everybody else was doing. So we're talking 2016 here. What everyone else was doing. Do you remember the days where you would create a paperback galley and then you would sell those in the back of an event?

11:35So here's what I was doing. I was schlepping duffel bags of paperback galley versions of the five second rule with me as I was going to one speaking event after the other. Duffel bag full of books. I bring them to the back of the conference room at the Marriott Courtyard. I got them out. I've got my freaking notepad. I was such a dummy. I didn't even use an Excel spreadsheet. And I would ask people to pay me$20. And I am going to give you a paperback version now. Yeah. And then if you write down your address, I will order you a copy on Amazon and ship you a copy to your address with the$20 you sent me.

12:19Wow. So I was manually trying to get pre-sales. Okay. And I didn't know how else to do it. Yeah, sure. And so I accumulate, I don't know, two, three thousand names. Yeah. And I'll never forget this story. So I am self-publishing the book and I am self-publishing the audio book. Yeah. And I still think that there's some world where I might be able to make the New York Times list. OK. I don't know that they don't really. You're not even being considered. Yes, not even because I'm on nobody's. I'm nobody. Yeah. I've got this incredible tool that's changing people's lives. I'm making a living speaking.

13:06I am paying off my debt because of it. This is amazing. I write the book because I can't answer people's emails anymore. And so I am so excited. I've done all these presales manually. Yeah. I have a newsletter list of, I don't know, 10 ,000 people at this point, mostly people that have been in the audiences at the Remax local real estate thing. And, you know, like this is the kind of speak. So all of a sudden, the book is going to be released the last week in February 2017. And I get news two weeks beforehand that Tony Robbins has moved his book up six months and is releasing on the same day. Yeah.

13:47And just to put in perspective, at this point in my life, every event I went to, people would ask me, are you his wife? And so I've never met him. And I to this day, I've never met him. And I have absolutely like, hi, Tony. Yeah. But he was just sort of this kind of figures. I'm like, can somebody just please see me? Can somebody recognize me? Sure. So for the book comes out, I blast my email list. I also have a couple clients, speaking clients, that have agreed to buy like a couple hundred books that week, pointing them all to Amazon because not a single bookstore has the book in it. I have recorded the audiobook, and my husband has gone to Amazon.com and found ACX, which is Amazon's audiobook publishing platform, and he has uploaded the audiobook that we have recorded to Amazon.

14:38So long and the short of it is, the book comes out, all the pre-sales that we had manually put in go out, the book immediately lists as unavailable. Because they didn't have it, they hadn't printed it up. No, because we had worked with a self-publisher to print like 15 ,000 copies. Back in the day around 2017, if they got a flood of orders, they had no way to connect the dots between what was actually happening and inventory. Yeah. So they just immediately put a close for business sign up. So I have seven speeches that week all lined up. I'm traveling from Omaha to Vegas to Reno to like every little thing to give a speech.

15:23I am planning on telling the audiences to buy the book. It's not available. Every airport I land in, there's Tony's book. There it is. There's the Robins everybody cares about. And I remember the day that the New York Times list came out. I was in Salt Lake City and I had landed and I was coming down the escalator and I got a phone call. Hey, the list came out. You didn't make it. Yeah. Of course I didn't make it. Yeah, right. You didn't even know the game. I don't know if you've ever done this, but have you ever walked into a public bathroom and walked into a stall and sat down on a toilet in your pants and cried?

16:08I have not. No. Okay. Well, so I have. I came down the escalator. Everybody's there with their welcome home from your mission signs. I hang up the phone. I haul my iPhone across the luggage area. I walk straight for the women's bathroom and I cried. And I thought, I am the world's biggest idiot. Like, I am an idiot. Like, why? When is it going to work out? Like, I have been working so hard to get out of debt. But this book is like this rule is making a difference. Like I'm a good person. Yeah. Like I'm trying hard. Like when is it going to be my turn? And I had forgotten about the audio book. Right.

16:50Now, here's the interesting thing. It took like three weeks to get it all sorted out with Amazon because I didn't know who to call. Right. There is no one to call. Yes. Yeah. Even when you have a publisher, there's no one to call. Right. And I just was like, I guess I failed. And here's what I kept saying to myself. And this is what I want to say to absolutely anybody. that is at a moment where they see everybody else succeeding and you're saying, when is it going to be my turn? Why isn't this happening? I'm a good person. I'm working hard. I don't get it. I kept saying to myself, I refuse to believe that if you work this hard and you are a kind person that is doing their best, I refuse to believe that it's not going to work out.

17:34Yeah. I have to believe that this is leading me somewhere incredible. I just don't know where yet. And that little setting, this must be leading me somewhere. I just don't know where yet. It helps me to keep going. And long story short, the book like didn't really sell at all for the first, I don't know, six weeks or whatever. And then all of a sudden, an envelope arrives in the mailbox from Audible. And I was like, what is this? And I was like, oh, wait a minute. Oh, the audio book. Sure. And I opened up the envelope and it was like$25 ,000. And we were still profoundly in debt. I mean, we were chipping away at the debt that we had.

18:25I mean, I remember I was like falling out of my audio books. And so I from that failed book launch, I discovered the power of audio books. And I also discovered a completely different business model in publishing because in 2017, I self-published an audiobook. And that audiobook and the reason why the check was so big is because every bit of my marketing effort that went to Amazon, the only thing available was the audiobook. So people bought that. And that went on to become the most successful self-published audiobook in history. It also made The Five Second Rule the fifth most read book of the entire year on Amazon.

19:13It has never made the New York Times bestseller list and probably never will. Because it's never qualified. Never qualified. And I don't care because in that experience, which was excruciating, I discovered the thing that was meant for me. And so in life, for me, it has helped me profoundly because it is you against you. I do believe that success is a matter of not quitting. And that if you can hang in there long enough and you don't put a deadline for when you're going to achieve the things that you hope to achieve, I believe there is a really like, I'm talking 90 % chance you're going to make it happen.

20:07So we had a unusual little first world problem in our family. We built a little house down on the Gulf Coast, almost done. And now we're in the process of furnishing it. And we had to get mattresses for all the rooms. And so it was like, what mattresses do we want? And I was asking a friend, you know, what mattress do you have? Do you have a mattress you love? And they were like, I love Helix. and as it happens that's who we grabbed a house full of mattresses from and they are coincidentally enough today's sponsor it's obvious why people love their helix mattresses they're not just comfortable they're comfortable for a reason you you fill out this quiz that matches you with the perfect mattress based on your preferences and your sleep needs we ended up getting the midnight mattress since it's got that medium firmness it's not too firm not too soft.

20:57And as it happens, it's their best selling model. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand. It's been tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. They've got free shipping, seamless delivery. Like, honestly, the mattresses came sooner than we were thinking. We were doing this all. And then like the mattresses arrived sooner than the beds, which was awesome. Helix delivers the mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US. And you can rest easy with the Happy with Helix guarantee that ensures seamless returns and exchanges. It's a risk-free customer-first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new mattress and includes a 120-night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty.

21:39Go to helixsleep.com slash stoic for 27 % off. That's helix.com slash stoic for 27 % off. Just make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. helix.com slash stoic. Just this morning, as I do every morning, I was taking the supplements that I take. And if you're not taking any supplements, well, January is a good time to think about doing that. Choosing the right supplements can be confusing because there's so many brands and, you know, it's kind of a low trust category. It's not super regulated. The products are easy to make and the companies don't even have to say everything that's on their label.

22:19That's why we are happy to work with Momentus and why I take their supplements. They've become a high-trust brand in a low-trust category. They don't just meet the industry standard. They built the Momentus standard, which is their commitment to doing things the right way, not the easy way. Momentus sources only the highest quality ingredients on the planet. Their whey protein comes from grass-fed European dairy cows. Their creatine uses the purest form of creatine monohydrate and nearly every formula is made with clinically backed highly bioavailable nutrients with no fillers and no artificial sweeteners my wife is like allergic to everything she's very sensitive about what she puts in her body and what she doesn't and she loves their stuff too if a product doesn't meet the momentous's standards it doesn't hit the shelves in a space where trust is rare momentous is redefining what trust looks like and right now Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35 % off your first order with promo code DAILYSTOIC.

23:16Head over to livemomentous.com and use promo code DAILYSTOIC for up to 35 % off your first order. That's livemomentous.com, promo code DAILYSTOIC.

23:30Well, one of the things that Stokes talk about is that it matters what race you're trying to run. So one of the lines from Epictetus, which I think about a lot, he says, if you only run races where winning is up to you, you will always win. And so the problem is, yeah, we're mostly running races where winning is not up to us. So if you're trying, if the race you're trying to win is the New York Times bestseller list or the Nobel Peace Prize selection committee or, you know, something where some committee or gatekeeper or somebody other than you decides what that success is. Well, then maybe you'll get lucky, but you probably won't.

24:07If the race you're running is trying to make something that actually reaches like real human beings, that race is much more up to you. You have a much better chance. The thing you should quit is stop trying to impress certain people or check certain boxes because that's what you've decided success is. When you redefine and it's over here, then all that hard work and effort is actually directed at something. You were working extremely hard in a thing that it was actually impossible for you to win because I didn't know. Yeah. You're literally the work you're doing does not qualify for the arcane, complicated black box metrics.

24:43But can we go back to your original question? Yes. Right. Yes. Because you just gave the second answer to what I was going to say about success. I am one of the most intentional people other than you that you will ever meet. OK. OK. And I always think about the outcome and then try to reverse engineer a way to get there. But here's what matters about success. What is the outcome you're measuring? Yeah. And for me, like you just asked me about the list. It came out. I didn't even know. Right. Right. I don't have the metrics to our podcast because that's not the metric that matters. Once a week, I'll say to like our COO or my executive producer that I've worked with for 10 years, Tracy, I'll be like, so how are we doing?

25:32We doing OK? Is there anything bad I need to know about? Yes. Yes. Because the second you take your eye and you start measuring success up here, you take your eye off the ball of the thing in front of you. Right. That's creating the impact and the success you were seeking in the first place. Yeah. And so I think it's really important, and I've gotten better and better and better at this, in understanding what does success look like on my terms. And I don't do a project at all until I define what success would look like. So, for example, when we decided to do our first tour last year, I had a very simple goal.

26:11I want to have a lot of fun doing this. I want to challenge myself creatively because I've never done anything like this. I go and give a one-hour keynote in front of a corporate audience. I'm like a human defibrillator waking people up at a corporate event at 10 o 'clock in the morning. You know that job. I've never been in front of a drunk audience on a Friday night for entertainment. People who chose to be there. Yes, exactly. I also said I want every single show to get better so that on the closing night at the Apollo Theater in London that we can say that was our best show. Right. I want the audience to be gobsmacked.

26:51I want people to be so shocked by what they just experienced because they were not expecting that. Yeah. And I don't want to lose too much money. And every time I would say that on a call, my business partners, my sister-in-law, would you please stop saying that? Turns out we lost a lot of money, even though it was a sold out tour, because production is very expensive, and we learned a lot, and we achieved everything. I didn't say I wanted to sell it out. I didn't say I wanted to make a lot of money. And how you measure success is actually everything. Yeah. Right, because it changes whether you're dependent on the gods or luck or whatever smiling on you or whether you can will it into existence or not.

27:38Well, and what's interesting about this phenomenon in this book is that there are so many unexplainable things that have happened that could never have been orchestrated. Yeah. that are so magical that I feel that my job was writing the book. And now my job is to sit back and to, as this thing is like a rocket ship, to sit back as if you're in an airplane and look out the window and recognize, like I literally feel ancestors and ancient wisdom circling around me like the dots on that book. carrying this message through, because I do believe that this is a timeless message, even though the theory is something that I created and it's a new tool.

28:34I believe that ideas have a life of their own. I think Elizabeth Gilbert talks about this a lot. And that for whatever reason, I'm the one that became the messenger in a way to repackage all of this research and ancient wisdom in a way that people could use it now. Yeah, nobody knows where ideas come from. And there's something I think, especially when it works, it's healthy to be like, yeah, I don't know where I came from. It's good to own when things don't work. And then I think it's important when it does work to go, here's the ways I was lucky, the magic of creativity. And then someone once told me that there's like a difference between a hit and a freak.

29:17And you know what I mean? Like a hit is kind of in your control. You can do all the right things. Oh, no, this is like a supernova freak. Yeah, this is a whole nother level. How does that feel? It feels, it's really humbling, honestly, because I don't think it's me. I feel that I'm just so happy in a moment where people feel really worried and scared about what's happening in the world, that people are turning toward a book and a book that can help them lean back into their life. And I love the Trojan horse of this theory because when you first start saying let them, the Irish version is fuck them, it has this edge to it that helps you detach.

30:07But the second part, the let me part, the thing I'm the most proud of is that this is making people's marriages better. It's making them better friends. better sons and daughters. It's bringing families together because it forces you to see people as they are, to accept them as they are, instead of constantly trying to control and judge and change the people you care about. Well, it's a beautiful tension between resignation and empowerment, right? And I think sometimes people struggle with that. They hear ideas of resignation or acceptance. Those are like not great American concepts. Like we don't like that because it seems like you're giving up your agency.

30:50But really what you're doing is giving up your delusions of agency about the parts that are not up to you and then seizing your agency on the parts of agency that actually are up to you. So yeah, you say that a lot in the book, the idea of like, it seems like it's about them, but really it's about the me. So you're letting them and then And you're leaning into the me because it's I don't control them, but I do control me. So what am I going to do about it? Yes. And the other thing that I think is really important about it is that I do believe the research and the research that I say is from Dr.

31:25Aditi Nurikar, that 83 percent of people, especially here in the United States, coming out of the pandemic in particular in a chronic state of stress. Yeah. And the number one source of everybody's stress is other people because they're super annoying. and very frustrating and they break your heart and they schedule zoom meetings at five o 'clock on a friday because they have no life like i just and i never understood because i've been a huge fan of your work i have tried to study stoicism i'm married to a buddhist ryan it's so annoying yes my husband's a death doula you want to talk about a profoundly that's heavy present calm man that's my husband of 29 years yeah and meanwhile i'm like the steering wheel of life and and if you're not like me you're probably married to or dating somebody like me sure or your mother was like me or your sister's like me and i have tried to let things go but to me letting something go feels like losing yeah it feels like no power i've i have read victor frankel's man search for meaning probably a dozen times.

32:33I could not apply any of it in a moment where I was stressed or frustrated or hurt. I could not remember to recite the serenity prayer. And what I have found transformative at a cellular level is saying let them and let me are tools. And I can remember that in a moment in modern life when the outside world gets in here or some annoying idiot takes up space up here. And it has helped me protect myself from all of the very real things that I have no control over. And in doing so, and you know this because you are the person that everybody turns to when it comes to stoicism and applications in modern life, what happens is you go, Jesus, I have so much more time.

33:37I didn't realize I could be calm. Yeah, yeah. I think you don't have to go through your day just being pissed off all the time. I was the person, I am not proud to tell you, that would come home every day and I would be on edge and stressed out and snapping at my kids. And then I would blame work. Yeah. And I was giving the worst to the people who are the best. That's really hard. I feel guilty about that all the time, too. I'm like, I'm pretty good, like in the world, not getting like I feel like I'm polite. I feel like I'm courteous. I feel like I'm patient. And then I go, wait, I'm giving like the best to the people I'll never fucking again.

34:20And then because your kids don't have a choice about where they live, that you're like, you get the leftovers. And obviously it should be the opposite. Yes. And there is something about protecting yourself all day long so that you're not gassed by the time you walk in the door. It's made me a different boss. It's made me a different wife. It has completely transformed the way I feel day to day. I did not realize how hard I was making life for myself. Well, I think about that with my kids. Like, I've never had a teacher or a babysitter or anyone else be like, your kids are the worst, you know, like they're always like, your kids are angels that are well behaved.

34:59And I'm like, that's not what I'm seeing at home, you know? And I realized, oh, wait, they're actually being incredible out in the world. They're doing the same thing I'm doing, which is they're behaving and masking and following the rules. And then at home where they feel safe, they're wild maniacs. And I should I should take this as a compliment, not as an indictment. Like if I thought they were good and then, you know, it's terrible report cards all day and they're getting in trouble all the time, I'd be like, okay, something's wrong. But it's actually exactly the way you want it to be, which is like, it's like if your behavior is pretty good, but in your head, you're like, fuck this person, that's better than the alternative, right?

35:37And so that's how it should be. For children. Yes. But keep in mind, I'm walking in the door and acting like an eight-year-old. Yes. Yes. And so when you are an adult, you have the ability to get a hold of this. And it is so liberating and so freeing. I've been so excited to talk to you about this because I am curious about what you see about the let them theory, what you see about it all. I thought there's this interesting passage that Marcus opens meditations with that I think it's got a little let me in it. Tell me what you think. OK, so the first part, he opens meditations with a list of acknowledgments from everything he learned from all his friends.

36:14But then he says this is a famous passage. He says, when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself the people I will deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. And he says they are like this because they can't tell good from evil. but I've seen the beauty of good and the ugliness of evil and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own. He says, and so none of them can hurt me and no one can implicate me in ugliness. He says, I can't feel angry at my relatives or hate him because we were born to work together like feet, hands, and eyes, like two rows of teeth, upper and lower to obstruct each other as unnatural and to feel anger at someone and to turn your back on them are obstructions.

36:54And what I like about that is the first part you think is going to be cynical and jaded and nasty. And then he's like, but that's them. And like my job is just to not let myself be like them and also to work with them regardless. That to me is stoicism and the idea of you let them be them and you still have to make sure you are who you're supposed to be. I am so grateful that you picked out that passage. And I'm going to tell you why. It explains what has been the single biggest impact that the let them theory has had in my life, other than transforming me from being the stressed out, controlling, judgmental freak and being more peaceful and powerful and more intentional about how I respond.

37:46I can be very intentional about business, but not in charge of my emotions. The biggest difference that this has made is in my ability to change the dynamic in a relationship, particularly with family members who are very challenging. Yeah. And until I had these tools, I spent most of my life bracing, you know, everybody has like, just think of the person in your life that is super challenging, but you're not going to cut them out because you want a relationship with them. Yeah. You just wish they were different. Yeah. You just wish they thought different things and acted a different way. And it could be anybody.

38:28It could be your adult kid. It could be your parents. It could be a brother. It could be any. It could be your spouse. If only you're more motivated. If only this. And the judgment that you bring and the wish that somebody were different is part of the tension. But we don't see it. And so for me, that passage beautifully summarizes what I've experienced, which is let's just take everybody's got somebody. who's got like a narcissistic personality style in their family. And we brace and we wish it's going to be different. And as we go into interactions with people, you're kind of on edge. This person has been this person since you've known them.

39:06Yeah. They're not changing. Right. They're certainly not changing because you yelled at them. Yes. And they're not changing because you want them to. Yeah. Because people only change when they're ready to do the work to change for themselves. And so the strategy with the let them theory is you force yourself to just let them be. Let them be who they are. Let them be who they're not. And that includes if they have opinions that you're offended by. That includes if they drink too much. That includes if they're rude. That includes all those things that you want to change. And you may be correct that it would be wonderful if they would change.

39:44But the major mistake I was making is I thought if they changed, things would get better. What this taught me is the moment that you force yourself to accept people as they are, which actually is love, and you create this space between you and the other person where they are allowed to have the dignity of their own experience, they are allowed to have their own opinions, they are allowed to screw up their life. They're allowed to be addicted. They're living their life. So when you say let them, you create space for acceptance and non-judgment. You create space for compassion. You create space since you're removing the judgment to actually lean in and be more curious about what's going on.

40:32And then the let me part was revelatory for me because I would always get so on edge about these. oh God, is so-and-so going to be there? Do we have to, oh God, you know, we all have the person and the extended family that now my energy shifted. And so I'm going in different. And so when I started saying, well, let me, let me just ask myself, what do I value? And if I value family or if I value showing up for people, or if I value long-term friendships, okay, well then I'm going because it's my value. I'm choosing. And if I know who I'm walking into, let me look at what I can control. I don't have to stay overnight.

41:12I can just stay for two hours. And if they're upset by that, let them. And I can leave any conversation, any text chain, any dinner table, any time I choose. And when you start to realize, wait, you're not trapped. You actually have more power. You go into it calm. And what does this person present you the opportunity to do? So the passage that I built the obstacles the way around is also a quote from Mark's real history says, and he's specifically talking. I made the quote more generally about obstacles, but he's specifically talking about difficult people. It's like people who get in our way.

41:48Yes. He says what what what these people forget is we always have the opportunity to adjust and adapt. And he says, so the impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes what he's really saying is this person who you are seeing as an obstacle is actually an opportunity. So that person who has views very different than yours or that person who's always late or that person who's too loud or that person insert whatever the thing that person is. not only are you not going to change it, you should see them as an opportunity to practice putting up with that, right? To being curious about that thing, forgiving that thing.

42:25Not getting triggered by it. Exactly. Like, hey, I'm just, I'm going to go into this difficult situation. And the upside in it for me is that by the time I leave, I've practiced being patient with a person who really bothers That makes you better. So they're not going to change, but actually you change in your relation to them and you become better. And that's the idea is not just that difficult people aren't this curse on your existence, but they're this challenge to you that you can be improved by. It's obviously easier to say than to do. But if you can if you can go into it with this mindset, you do get better over time.

43:03And something even cooler happens. At least this is what I've discovered. Yeah. So typically in a family dynamic, the most immature and challenging person has the most power. Yeah. Because everybody's tiptoeing around them and everybody's bracing and it shifts like that energetic web. When you start to say, let them, I know who my uncle is. I know. I like, just let them be who they be. I'm still going because I want to see my parents and I'm just going to let me I'm just going to stay calm and I'm going to keep it light. And that's it. Yeah. And the second is I'm just going to take off like no big deal.

43:42When you walk in to a any kind of meeting like that or family gathering like that and you are settled and you're calm. Yeah. And you are unfuckable with. You're now the most powerful person in the room. Sure. And and it shifts everything. You're not as bothered by people. You're not playing into it. Yeah, it is the most like it's sort of like, you know, when people are screaming at you and there's a little bit where you like just check out versus somebody who's really mad who just is like they're not reacting. but you know they're in control of that anger. Like that is a scarier person too because they're actually in control of themselves.

44:25And so you and me personally, I speak for myself and this is what we're hearing from readers around the world that instead of cutting people out of their life, they're able to create the space to have people in their life as they are. And what's the term for that? Gray rocking? Yes, yes. You don't allow them to trigger you, get you worked up. Yes. You understand, hey, this is what they want me to do in this situation. I'm just, I'm not going to give you that. It actually helps you apply gray rocking because if you get all triggered by your narcissistic, you know, personality style X, now they have power over you.

45:08But when you go let them, this is why I'm divorced to this motherfucker. Like, let them do that. Now, let me remind myself. I get to choose how I'm going to respond to this. And I'm not responding to this text. Yeah. And if they text me 17 more times, I'm not responding because I get to choose what I'm going to do. I'm in a gray rock or I'm just going to do the thing where I'm really bland and then they go away. You know, like letting someone have the last word is having the last word, if you understand it. You know, like like you get to decide, hey, I said what I need to say. This conversation is over.

45:41They can keep talking, but the conversation is over. And so it's deciding how you're going to perceive who has the power and who doesn't. And you get to decide. Yes. You know, the other thing that I think is important to say, because this is one of the this is one of the things that that is a misconception about the let them theory, which is, you know, you're just saying let people abuse you, let people walk all over you. It's actually not that at all, because when you are in a situation, whether you're dating somebody or you're working for somebody or you're in a family situation where somebody is wildly disrespectful or abusive to you in any way, it's already happening.

46:19Yeah. And you're not allowing it. It's happening to you. When you say let them, you're not saying I'm letting them do this to me. When you say let them, you're forcing yourself to recognize that this is who this person is. How they are treating you is how they feel about you. and if the number one rule about life is you cannot change another person you can only change yourself then when you say let them you have to this is the radical acceptance part you're having to see with clear and sober eyes the situation you're in yeah and then you go to the let me part and this is where you start to coach yourself and say let me remind myself i'm not stuck in this job I may need to pay my bills, but I can use my weekends to brush up the resume and find something else.

47:10Let me remind myself if the behavior is unattractive because they don't want to put a label on it, Ryan. And you know what that means? It means they don't like you, but they like sleeping with you. So let them not put a label on it and let me ask myself, is this attractive? Yeah. They're going to do what they're going to do. Yes. And I'm going to decide whether I participate, witness it, put up with it, subject myself to it. That's the part that's up to you. And you're going to say, I'm going to let you do this over here. Right. I'm going to go do this over here. Yes, because so many of us get stuck in very broken patterns and relationships because we live in a fantasy in our mind instead of seeing the reality of the situation that we're in.

47:55And, you know, wanting things to change, that's a good thing. Wanting somebody to heal, that's a beautiful thing. Wanting things to get better, that is a wonderful thing. It's the fact that we go about it by thinking the powers and changing that person versus accepting the reality and saying, okay, since I can't control what they're going to do, I just have to focus on what I'm going to do. And maybe it's nothing right now. Maybe the first step is I'm just seeing this for the first time. And I've been so scared about paying my bills, it hasn't even occurred to me that I can't change my boss, but I could, over time, start to change how I spend my time and I could start to take the actions that get me to a different job.

48:38Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned misconceptions about the book. That must be interesting because, you know, anyone that puts anything out in public, there's going to be misconceptions. There's going to be criticism. There's going to be people who just don't like it. And then obviously when you succeed at a very large level, one of the things you have to wrestle with is like the number of those people becomes quite large. Right. Like, I don't know. No, no. If you sell a million copies of something, the number of people who didn't like it starts to be in the tens, if not the many tens of thousands of people.

49:11Right. It's just like you think about how many people don't like Taylor Swift. Lots of people like Taylor Swift, which means lots and lots of people don't like Taylor Swift. Right. And so the idea of what's interesting, I don't think about that. But that's my point is that that's a skill you have to learn. Letting people have opinions about you. Yes. That are negative. OK. Because they will. Yes. But here's here is the most liberating thing you'll ever learn. If you wake up every day and you do the best that you can to make decisions that make you proud of who you are, you apologize when you screw up and you do the best with the best of intentions you can lay your head down on the pillow every night and be proud of yourself and when you're proud of yourself and you know who you are and you know your intentions and you know the way you operate you don't think about other people at all because you actually know the truth yeah and i think you get in trouble in life.

50:14Like I cared a lot about what people thought about me when I didn't like me. Yes. I care that that you're hoping if they like you, then you could like you. Correct. And that's also why this has been so transformative for people, because it reveals this very subtle and hidden thing that most of us don't realize is right in front of your face, which is before you do anything, the default is to stop and think about what somebody else might think. Like even just the act of posting something online, most people will select a photo and I'm like, oh, not that photo. And I thought not that photo. OK, maybe this photo.

50:52OK, this photo. All right. Let me put that a filter, filter, filter, filter. OK, now let me start writing a cap. Oh, is that too much? Too much for who? Yeah. Too much for who? There is this assumption that there is something you could do that would guarantee that another human being will have a thought that you can control that will pop into their mind or that they will have an emotion that you can guarantee is due to what you just did. And what's happening when people read this and they start to say, let them, they're noticing that that resistance that Steven Pressman talks about. It's almost a thousand percent based on your fear of other people.

51:32Yeah. And we don't realize how much we're thinking about other people and how manipulative we are with what we do and what we say. See, like people pleasing. That's not a weakness. That's manipulation because you're acting in a way to try to manipulate people to like you. I used to be a huge people pleaser. And this taught me that people are going to think what they're going to think. They're going to say what they're going to say. They're going to make up lies about you. They're going to hate you just because you're successful. You're going to, your example is going to bring up stuff for them that they haven't dealt with.

52:04Let them, let them, give them the dignity of their own experience. And let me focus on living my life in a way that I feel good about myself because I know who I am. I know how I operate.

52:22This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. I actually just finished my online therapy session just a few minutes ago. The year's coming to an end. I guess I could have pushed it till January, but I thought, you know what? No, I want the holidays to go well. I want to be focused on what I should be focused on. I want to take care of myself. I want to get better. And that's where today's sponsor, BetterHelp, comes in. Therapy is a great way to get an unbiased perspective on your life. It's how you can get a weight off your shoulders. It's so you can focus on the future. It's so you can break old patterns and be who you want to be in 2026.

53:00With over 30 ,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. They've served more than 5 million people all over the world. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct. They are fully licensed in the U.S., and they even do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. If you aren't happy with your therapist, you can switch to a different one at any time from their recommendations. If you want to leave some stuff behind, leave it in the past, leave it in 2025, well, BetterHelp can help you do that. And you can sign up right now for 10 % off at BetterHelp.com slash DailyStoicPod.

53:37That's BetterHelp.com slash DailyStoicPod. stoic pod. I'm at the office right now, but I'm heading home. The family's at the house and we're already like, do I need to pick something up on the way home to cook for dinner? What do we need to do? And then my wife reminded me, no, no, we had a HelloFresh box come in. Now we don't have to worry about dinner today. HelloFresh is America's number one meal kit. They've delivered over 1 billion meals and their recipes take 30 minutes or less. Everything shows up at your door ready to go, no parking lots, no checkout lines, no forgetting ingredients, and all those recipes are made with wholesome ingredients like sustainably sourced seafood and 100 % antibiotic and hormone-free chicken, just go to hellofresh.com slash stoic10fm.

54:23You get 10 meals free, plus a free Zwilling knife on your third box. Offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan.

54:42I think everyone has that experience as a kid. You go to the store and you get something. You're like, I love this shirt. I love this thing. And then you get to school in it and then people are like, that shirt is dumb. Yes. And that's where you learn, oh, my opinion is not the opinion that counts to me. Yes. It's what other people think. Yes. And the irony that people are so sensitive, like in the arts or in the creative space is like, the whole point is like, what do you like? That's why you're the artist. And yet here you are going like, audience, tell me if this is good or not. And then you're not doing your job.

55:14Your job is, do I like this photo? Do I think this sentence is good? Does this sound cool to me? That's the job of the artist. And you're actually neglecting it. And you're saying to the audience, no, no, you make the decision for me. Yes, it's true. I think about this a lot because I have somebody that I love deeply who is an artist and a musician. And I can see the wrestling with like, you know, there's just like 11 songs waiting to go. And the wrestling with the is it good enough for who? if it's good enough for you. And it's a very hard thing to learn, especially when there is so much negative feedback coming at you.

55:57And so many examples is where we started about everybody else's success. Like I don't, I live in Vermont. I don't see what everybody else is doing. I also don't look for it. And I've cultivated friendships with peers of ours because my family doesn't know what I'm going through. Yeah. Only the people that are in our industry kind of know what you're going through. And so I'm very careful about who I take advice and who I take criticism from. Sure. Because if I don't respect you or I wouldn't want to trade places with you or you haven't done the thing that I'm trying to do, then I'm not going to listen to your feedback, most likely.

56:42Well, the selective ignorance can be helpful, too. Like, let's say, like, letting them is the theory and the work, right? To get to a place where, hey, you found out all your friends went on vacation without you, and you're wrestling with feelings, and you're like, you know what, let them. Or a New York Times review comes out, and it's negative. You go, hey, I'm going to let them have their feeling. That's the skill of it. But I think you can also help yourself by just going by just spending less time on social media, by saying, hey, I have a rule. I don't read reviews or deciding to live in Ramon or rural Texas.

57:17Like by not living in New York City and going to parties all the time where all I'm hearing about is other people's success. I'm I'm more able to be like everyone's doing their own thing. Yes. I'm doing my thing over here. And I just don't know a lot of what's happening that if it if I did know it might bother me and I'm going to have to do some work. Yes. But I can I can cut that off at the source. Yes. And there's another layer to the success thing. So I used to be one of the most insecure, jealous type of friends you could ever have. great i'm not proud to tell you this at all when my husband and i were struggling massively financially i remember we i had this experience we're really good friends of ours move from our town to like the nice town yeah and they not only move there all of a sudden they got a nice house like with a long driveway ryan and we've all gotten that invitation where you're driving up the driveway and you turn to your spouse and you're like, how the hell did they have this fucking money?

58:22And I love my friend and I'm happy for my friend and I know they've worked really hard. I'm just really sad for me. And, you know, I've got a lien on my house and I've pulled my kid out of town soccer. I don't want to fucking kill my husband because I want to blame it all on him. I'm unemployed. And then they swing open the door and they hand you that glass of wine and I grip it like a freaking blankie and I'm going around the house, Ryan, holding it like this. I've got that smile like this because I can't contain the anger and the jealousy and the sadness and she's winning and I'm losing and her house looks like a freaking restoration hardware store And now I'm drinking like crazy and we come around the corner and she has the white kitchen cabinets and she has the marble on the countertop.

59:23And I'm thinking that bitch stole my Pinterest board, Ryan. And I drink myself into the ground and then I get into the car. And I am so emotionally immature that I turn to my husband and I say, why couldn't you have gone into finance? Why did you have to like people? And the poor man is like shrinking in the driver's seat. Like, I don't know. I wish I had. It would make her life easier. The thing that's interesting about that experience, because you're going to feel it in life. Of course. Is that I didn't understand how to live life in a way that someone else's wins are not your losses. Yeah. That other people, 95 % of the stuff in life, they can't block your way.

1:00:13You do that. Yeah. It's not a zero-sum game. Someone else's success, not only does it not prevent you from being successful, you know them. It probably actually helps you be more successful if you could figure out how to see it that way. But I couldn't for a long time until I recognized that all of that friction, whether it's jealousy or anger or frustration that stirs up inside you, it's actually very personal. Like if somebody drove down the block here and they had a cyber truck, I wouldn't feel anything because I don't want one. Yeah, I know. It's a fucking doll. It's just like, I don't want that thing.

1:00:53But if somebody drove down in like a vintage pickup truck, I'd be like, oh, because the things that stir up inside you, they are deeply tied to your dreams and to the things that are meant for you. And I started to see that, oh, wait a minute, like all of this friction is just like a directional signal. It's like, you know, some sort of GPS off in the distance saying ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it's your self-doubt that's blocking you. It's your inaction. You can work for a decade and make the money to renovate your kitchen. You could paint your kitchen cabinets white right now. Yeah. There's a million ways that you could achieve something adjacent to that if you recognize that you are capable of doing it through your attitude and your actions.

1:01:42And you understand that all of that stuff that gets churned up is your body and mind and soul trying to say, wake the hell up. Like, you could do this. I remember I wanted to get into podcasting for so long because I had started in radio way back in the day, like 2007. seven. And I kept telling myself, it's too late. Yeah, I'm too old. That that freaking monk Jay Shetty, he's already said it all. Fucking Stephen Bartlett. Screw that guy. Ryan Holiday. He's already got his show. Like, I can't write a book now. Like, oh, my God, everybody's already said it. I talked myself out of doing it for probably four years.

1:02:21Yeah. How sad. I know it's it's not just like, hey, there's some stuff that's in your control and some stuff that's not in your control. It's that when you are directing energy, emotions, resentments, et cetera, at the part that's not in your control, what you're doing is taking away energy that could be spent on the part that's in your control. Say that again so they hear you say that. Please. It's like we have a finite amount of energy. And are you going to throw it against the brick wall over here or are you going to throw it on the sort of open road over here? Like where are you going to put it?

1:02:52Are you going to put it where it makes a difference or are you going to keep throwing it where it doesn't make any difference? But it feels so good. Sure. To complain about other people. But it feels so good in some way to be like, screw that guy. Well, it's safer for sure because there's no chance of you actually getting the thing. So all you have is the resentment. It's true. It's rough. It's rough. Why did it take me 54 years to figure this out? Well, I think that it's why did it take the human race this long to figure? I mean, we know this. Like ancient people said it. Psychologists have said it.

1:03:25Your grandparents probably told you this. Knowing it and then being able to apply it, it's not just like it takes a while. It's a gradual thing. Like even something like the theory or something like stoicism, it feels like an epiphany when you hear it for the first time. And there is like a lot of power in that. But mostly that's the least valuable part. The part of it is that sort of slow creeping or gradual ability to apply it more and more in your life or in the situations that actually matter. Yes. Just knowing it's not that. Well, that's the thing. That's one of the other reasons. I mean, there's many reasons why this thing has exploded.

1:04:05One of them is the simplicity. The second is that it's a tool. Yeah. There's a very big difference between what you need to know or why things are happening and how to apply it. Yeah. And the third reason why I think this thing has exploded is that as you read it, you're like, oh, I know this. Yeah. Because it's reminding you of what you know to be true. Yes. And the fourth reason why I think this has exploded in popularity and impact is as you're reading it, you're like, my mother needs this. My sister has got to read this book. My entire team needs to read this book. And it's funny. I was talking to Bert on Two Bears in a Cave.

1:04:43And he's like, I just love this book. I love this book. And, you know, everybody needs to read this book. And I said, well, actually, that's one of the reasons why it's so popular is because if you're frustrated because you've been trying to change somebody, people read the book and then they're like oh my god i gotta give this to my husband because i'm sick and tired of trying to make him do change we're gonna turn him over to mel and then all she's like leanne you gave me this book as a gift like she's like exactly and it worked yeah i do think people struggle with the popularity of stoicism i think i've seen some criticism of your book in this where people are like but the world's falling apart what about injustice what about the things that are wrong?

1:05:22And I actually think it applies perfectly, right? There's this line from Solzhenitsyn that I love where he says, you know, let evil come into the world. He says, let untruth come into the world, but you have to say not through me, right? Oh, say that again. That is gorgeous. Yeah. Let untruth come into the world, but not through me. Oh my God. And that's the idea, right? Well, here's what I believe, because I am very optimistic. I'm optimistic despite the fact that there are things that are profoundly wrong right now. And the reason why I'm optimistic is because the kind of transformative change that truly takes hold, whether it's in a family or it's in your community or it's in a nation or it's the world at large never comes from the top.

1:06:16Yeah. It always comes from within. It starts within you or within someone else. And then it ripples out through you. Yeah. And what I love about this quote that you just said is that you don't have a choice about what's happening out there, but you do have a choice about whether or not it gets in here. And if you protect your peace and your energy, what that means is you are not succumbing to that darkness. You are one of those people that are staying in your power and you are operating in a different way. And that has a huge impact. We just had a guy by the name of Dr. Todd Rose, who you would love on the podcast.

1:07:09He wrote this book called Collective Illusions. He was a professor of education at the Harvard School of Education, and he now runs a nonpartisan think tank that has collected the world's largest private data set on what people actually believe and want in life. It is the most empowering and encouraging research you will hear. And it's, I think, the most important podcast episode we've released in the last two years. Because he explains in a very, like, just data-driven way that, first of all, one out of every four interactions online is a bot. And that is a very conservative estimate, not political, but like very, you know, estimate that they think is probably not accurate, probably more, and that they can tell you that 90 percent of the content that you see is coming from five percent of the voices that are extreme.

1:08:03The worst people. Yes. And we are at a record levels of people admitting that they're self-silencing. Yeah. Because and this goes to what you were saying about nobody wants to be the weirdo in middle school. You know this, but in case, you know, you're watching and listening and you don't know this, Dr. Rose was explaining that your brain is wired for connection and being the weirdo or being the one that disagrees with everybody, it actually triggers in your brain this painful experience that is the same part of the brain that governs physical pain. Nobody wants to be that person that everybody is outcasting.

1:08:44And so when you have the loudest, most extreme, same craziest, awful voices, and they're dominating everywhere, the vast majority of people self-silence because they start to tell themselves a lie, which is everybody else must believe this too when they don't. And the data set's really interesting because the way that he does the data is he has this thing called the success index where you would go into a room, I'd go into a room. They give us a list of 60 attributes, everything from family to meaningful work to fame to money. And you've got to rank them in order. What does a successful life look like to you?

1:09:23And so you can't go this or that. You have to actually rank them. So there's trade-offs. Of the top 10 things that people privately say, this is a successful life to me. Eight of them are exactly the same. And the number one thing is doing something with my life that makes a difference for other people. Number one, doesn't matter what religion, what political, whatever. Now, this is where it gets interesting. They then come in and say to you and to me, okay, Mel, now I want you to do the same ranking, only what do you think other people put? Yeah. And everybody puts fame, status and money at the top when it was almost at the bottom of theirs.

1:10:05Yeah. And the research and they've done this in all these different categories proves that people want the same things. Yeah, we may disagree on policy and the way to get around and whatever else, but we are in this collective moment of silence. And he also talks a lot about the example of the Velvet Revolution, which I did not know. It is the only time a communist government has been overthrown without a single bullet fired or single person killed. and it happened in the 1980s when a poet wrote a play that was a satire about the it's one of the check i mean i'm gonna get this all wrong because geography is not my strong suit and i did not take european history so i know that the haters are going to come in let them please link in the comments below they can teach you dr todd rose there's an 80 page beautiful paper that's free that you can read all about the Velvet Revolution, where this playwright wrote this play that was sort of a satire, but it was just low level enough that people were laughing hysterically, but the government didn't realize it.

1:11:12And people started to go, this is like so stupid. I'm going to go back to gardening. I'm going to write some poetry. And then all of a sudden there was such a groundswell. The same thing happened when gay marriage became legal. There was a vast majority of us that believed and wanted it to be. And then everybody's self-silencing. And then finally, people are like, why can't my brother get married? This is stupid. Why can't my friend get married? This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In fact, it's not fair. And then the silent majority became the vocal majority. And so I am optimistic because I believe with every cell of my being that 90 % of people want the same things and are weary because they don't believe other people do.

1:12:06Yes, and you send a powerful signal when you say, hey, I'm not going to participate in that. Hey, I'm not going to be a party to that. Hey, that's not good. Hey, that's not how I treat people. I'm going to show you how I treat people. Yes. And so that's the idea is like you control, you don't really control what's happening in Washington or Brussels or what all the corporations in the world are doing, but you control how you run your business. You control what you teach your kids. You control how you treat strangers. Well, you're a good example of this, by the way, because like one of the top 10 things, by the way, that people rank that that mean a successful life is I am engaged in my community.

1:12:43Yeah. When you made the decision to move to a smaller town to give your kids and your family a different experience, you also got engaged in your community and you opened a bookstore. I'm not kissing your ass. I'm actually using this as an example. Most people believe that being involved in your community is one of the top 10 things that means you're living a meaningful life. And 90 % of people are not involved in their community. I know it's funny you tell people like, oh, I opened a bookstore and they go, oh, I've always wanted to do that. Like you just hear that people go, I always wanted to do that.

1:13:17And I go, you know, it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't easy, but it's not like there was an entrance exam that I had to pass. Do you know what I mean? Like there, there, you just do it. And it's like the five second rule. You just decide to do it and then you fucking do it. That it's that you have to, you have to decide to do the things that you want to do. Yeah. But, but what I want to say is that yes, changing your attitude and managing your stress and changing the settings in your mind so that you start to become more hopeful you start to believe in the better nature of people you start to get out of the house yeah and you operate with kindness you go down to hospice and volunteer or you go down to the school and you volunteer or you go down to the nursing home and you volunteer or the local parks and rec and you volunteer and you start to meet your neighbor and you start to get re-engaged and you start to reconnect with the basic goodness and decency of most people.

1:14:17And you are now part of the solution because what you will find, and you probably feel this way too, is that when you live in a tiny town, everybody has to participate for the town to work. And when you are up close with your neighbor, even if they voted differently, you realize, wait a minute. Most of the things you interact with them about have nothing to do with politics at all. So I can let you watch Fox News in your house. I don't really care. But as long as you're cool while we're chatting a coffee in the morning. Yes. And you might find they're really frustrated by what they see with ice.

1:14:46Sure. And you might find that they didn't feel that they voted for what they're saying. And so, again, I personally feel I get a little woo. I do believe in the physics and the quantum nature. And I believe energy is currency. Yeah. I think in life, whether you're a leader or you're a parent or a friend or whatever, you bring the weather. Yes. Because you can be a storm or you can be the sun and a beautiful bluebird day. And when you set the tone, because you bring the weather with your energy, that changes everybody around you. Yes. And your kids are actually the place you're going to have multi-generational impact.

1:15:28Yes. Is at home. Yes. You want to go check out some books in the bookstore? I would love to. All right, let's do that.

1:15:38Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it and I'll see you next episode.

1:16:04Thank you.