Pete Holmes Doesn’t Buy Your Excuses (PT. 1)

0:00I'm recording this on a Monday, and Monday is our grocery store day in our family. I usually pick my kids up from school and we go over to Whole Foods, get all our groceries for the week. Although here very shortly, we're going to go over there to get our Thanksgiving turkey because they've got a bunch of great options. Turkeys start at$1.49 a pound if you have Prime with organic birds at$2.99 a pound. And they only carry no antibiotic ever turkeys that will bring quality to your table at a great price. Whole Foods has great everyday prices on all your Thanksgiving essentials, whether you celebrate with a massive family or just a few close friends.

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2:47Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their lives.

3:33Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of The Daily Stoge. podcast. I am recording in a slightly different place than normal, so it might sound a little different. I apologize. We're setting up a little office here in Austin. We've been having to drive in to take our kids to school and then drive back to the bookstore. It's just been a lot. So we're setting up a place in town that we can at least do some of our work and that may be alternate days. I've been running a lot on the Town Lake Trail. What does this have to do with today's episode? Well, I was actually on my way to pick up my kids from school and Samantha was in the car.

4:06We were driving in Austin one Friday afternoon and have the map on, we're listening to music. And then all of a sudden the call comes in on the Apple CarPlay. I don't know about you, but I like never answer my phone. And 95 % of the calls I get are not calls that I wanted to get, right? It's always spam or it's the bank with this or that, or it's, you know, it's some little work thing. And the name flashed up was Pete Holmes, the comedian, one of my favorite people. I was surprised to get the call. We've known each other a long time. I think we maybe talked on the phone one time, though. We text and I see him every once in a while.

4:42But he was calling and I answered. I go, hey, Pete, what's up? And he goes, I'm so surprised you answered. He's like, because nobody answers their phone anymore. And I was like, I'm surprised you called. Nobody calls anymore. And I was like, but I'm so glad you did. And we chatted for a few minutes and Samantha was in the car and laughing the whole time. He was working on a project. He wanted to ask my advice about like some of the sort of industry stuff in publishing, which was a lovely little conversation. I first did Pete Holmes' podcast, You Made It Weird, which is one of my favorite podcasts.

5:16He has some of my favorite interviews. He's just uniquely him. And by the way, if you want to listen to an amazing episode of Pete Holmes' podcast, listen to his interview with Robert Greene. I've known Robert Greene much longer than I've known Pete, but it is one of my favorite interviews of all time. And I got to know Robert better from it. It's one of my favorites. He's the best. I think I was first on Pete's podcast maybe when Stillness is the Key was coming out. But he was on the show virtually back in July 2020. And then he was in Austin for a comedy festival. And I said, hey, do you want to come out?

5:49And he did. And we had an amazing conversation. He talks about what philosophy and spirituality means to him, how he thinks about suffering and pain in his life. Of course, we taught the Stoics, Mark Starelius, and also just sort of like practically like how you identify with your work, how you say yes and no to things. It was lovely. And I was so glad that he got to do this. And I was glad that he called. And I do hope he calls again. I take lots of walks like when I'm at my house. But because I'm out in the country, I don't really get any service. That would be an awesome time for me to call people.

6:23And I think about that. Like if I lived in the city, I would do that more often. But it's lovely, you know, when you get to talk to someone that you don't get to talk to often enough. And he's one of my favorite people. This was one of my favorite interviews. I think you are really going to like it. If you have no idea who Pete Holmes is, you should watch his show on HBO, which I think had three seasons. His most recent stand-up comedy special was fantastic. He has a great book called Comedy Sex God. Not Comedy Sex God, but Comedy Sex God. A little play on words there. And his podcast, You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes, is one that I download all the time when I'm going to be traveling because I know they're long interviews.

7:05I know I can get lost in them. And he helps me pass the time. He is one of the great stand-ups of our time, which is actually something we talk about in today's episode. and you can follow him on Instagram and on Twitter at Pete Holmes or just listen to this podcast.

7:25Do you have to do like a ton of sets? No, I don't have to do any sets. Well, it's like a festival, right? I know what you're saying. Yes. I don't know why I took that moment to assert my independence. I don't have to do anything. I don't have to do shit, dude. It's almost like that question was a reminder to myself. I don't have to. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. Sure. Because all I'm running into comedians and everyone says, are you so tired? Because they're all doing a million things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, I just want to be like, you don't have to. That's what I want. In fact, are we recording?

8:00Yeah, yeah. That's my message to everybody. You don't have to do anything. Obviously, that's not ultimately true. But I look at a lot of people doing a lot of things and my message would just be like, maybe just stop. I think it's not just that we do a bunch of stuff that we don't have to do. It's that we do a bunch of stuff we don't have to do. And then we say we're selflessly doing it for like other people. Like I do it all for my family. And it's like, I can't believe you said that. That's not why you do it at all. Last night I did, I have this new joke. I can't believe you said that. I have this joke.

8:36I'm sorry to interrupt. No, no. But I was, it's a completely true story. I was watching, there's this terrible Mark Wahlberg HBO Max show and that's not a recommendation. I don't know why I watched it. But I actually do know why I watched it. I admire how productive he is. He's actually very funny in some things. I believe it. Yeah, the other guys. This isn't an anti-Wahlberg joke. You're way too tall for this table. I'm very sorry. No, not at all. People weren't my size when this table was made. This was Joan Didion's. And she's a very tiny little lady. And we don't have a lot of... Giants. Giants.

9:15We had to put risers on it, and you're still... Yeah, no, I'm bigger than a Didion, if we've learned anything. So anyway, in the documentary series, docuseries, Mark Wahlberg says his son is sort of joylessly going through this, like a filing clerk. Mark gave him every baseball card. Yeah. Like he just bought him the entire series of cards. And the son is very judiciously going through looking for the good ones. But not, look, I can't help but be, I am being judgmental. I think that sucks. I think that sucks. This sucks. You've made it a job. You've made it a job. Look for the, anyway. And do I spoil my daughter?

9:56Absolutely. So I can't. But anyway. Doing it for your family. He says, everything I do, I do for my family. And then it cuts to him like in Singapore on a motorcycle with a samurai sword through his leather jacket and i'm like no you don't you live in a 40 million dollar house you already did immediately you already did it dude i swear when i start talking because these are mythic figures mark walbrook is like a paul bunyan yeah i get up i get up before i am and i deadlift a horse you know like it's he's he's america yeah so it's hard to go against him and then i say like you have 500 million dollars i go you don't do it for your family yeah don't put the burden on them yeah and I'm dead serious.

10:38Yeah. My father used to say that the dad in succession says that like, it's like a thing. I know that one of those is real, but I just mean like the reason they wrote that into succession is because our dads were saying that. And that's not to say that you shouldn't do it. Just don't fucking lie. Don't lie. Yeah. that's the next part. Yes. No, this joke is a hundred percent Ryan holiday approved. I go, just be honest. Say, I like doing movies. It makes me feel like a big shot. I like being good at something. I like do, I like being somewhere where everyone's excited to see me. I think it's important.

11:10It makes a difference. I feel called. I'm talented. It's a gift. You know, Stephen A. Smith? Oh, I don't know. He's hilarious. He's the sports broadcaster who's like on TV all the time. He does like 12 hours of TV every day. Okay. And I was asking him something. I was like, I forget even what it was, but he was like, you know what? He's like, for me, I don't see my daughters as much as I'd like to, but the good thing is they always know where they can. He's like, part of the reason I do all this TV and maybe I'm, I could look at the tape And maybe I'm unfairly judging it, but it was something like, I'm on TV, so my daughters always know where I am.

11:41And it's like, they want you to be three doors down the hall. Like, what are you? And it's just one of those horseshit things that people say, especially when you're powerful and important and people cheer you for it. Yeah. Instead of going, that is very sad. Yeah. And I probably said, I probably just politely moved on because it was, I don't, I'm not here to confront you. But like, that's dumb. What you're saying is dumb. It is dumb. It's more than dumb. You know, I am affected by it as well. It's a cultural hypnosis. Yeah. It's a type, it's like this person, my father, everybody, anyone that says that is a victim in a certain sense.

12:21Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they didn't make that up. They're modeling it. It's what was sold to them and they're reselling it. I just like to be part of the generation that goes, no. And the last part of that joke is, because I really, I reverse engineered it because I wanted to have this line as I say, so I'm on stage. The context matters. And I go, I am not doing this for my family. I go, this is for me. I left my family and I said, you go and do likewise. Find something that excites you, that makes life worth living, that you will leave your loved ones for. And it gets applause. Yeah. Because we know this, I'm not like flicking the lights on, on some dark secret.

12:59We know, but like, I think you and I are both interested in those like hypnosis is the word. It's like, what are we saying? What are we, yeah, that's absolute delusion that we're saying. And kids are good at pointing that out. My daughter would be very happy if I, I mean, she doesn't mind that I leave. I might be deluding myself, but she rolls with it and she's a champ. And I try very hard not. In fact, I successfully don't tour very much. Yeah. And so when dad leaves, all she hears is I'm getting a present and we're back to spoiling. Yeah, yeah, no. It's like, on the one hand, it's a very privileged thing to find the thing you will neglect your family for.

13:36No, that joke is soaked in privilege. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I mean, it's great. It's a gift to be like, I have these people who I love more than anything. I also have this other thing that's close. That's right. Or very exciting and rewarding and all that. So it's very lucky. But yeah, I think one of the things I'm noticing is like, not only do you go, I'm doing it for them. That's not true. You're doing it for you. Or you're doing it for the money or whatever. Or you're doing it, honestly, a lot of times you're doing it for other people. Like if you think what you do is of service, you're doing it for other people.

14:06Yeah. But I'm noticing just how hard it is. Not that I'm gone, because they get along without me pretty well. Yeah. It's that it's the coming in and out is disruptive and causes stress and strain. And so I'm not only not doing it for you, you would prefer that I not do it. Yes, that's right. And so - It's actively against you. Like me going, oh, and then when I die, you get the money. They're not like, oh, great trade. Or like, oh, this is why we drive this model car instead of this model car. It's all worth it. So the reason you have to be honest about it is so that you can be honest about the day-to-day trade-offs with them and not pretend like you're doing them a favor.

14:48Right. Like my wife points this out all the time. Like you're in a nice hotel room. Yeah. I'm doing double school pickup as a result of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, it's not to make me feel guilty or say that I shouldn't do it. No, you just have to own it. But I don't get to throw myself a parade on top of getting to do the thing that I love to do. Well, that was part of the joke. It kind of got cut. I've only done, I've done the joke three times. And one of the times I was like, I'm not doing this for my family. Like, oh, poor Pete's got to go sling dick jokes like I work in a coal mine.

15:17And that's with respect to people who work in coal mines. Like, it's cosplaying. A lot of people do do things for their family. The insult is when the dad from Succession, who I know is fictional, or Mark Wahlberg, or if I said I'm doing this for my family. Again, I like what you said. I have to be honest with Val as well, is it's both. We need to be subtle. I need her to say, I think a key to, I think I have a very healthy, if you want to call it successful, love romantic relationship. And one of the keys to that is to be very honest about your needs, your feelings and your needs. Yeah. And both of those are very embarrassing.

15:58But with Valerie, I feel safe. She's a really safe person to go. She always says, thank you for working hard for the family. Yeah. and she also knows i went to bed at 11 last night and i slept till 10 30 this morning and she was up with the baby right with the baby she's six but you know what i mean like leela has been having who cares allergies she gets up in the night like you're we're both just rocked yeah you know what it is you have two all the time so it's both but i'm also like look i i was just gonna go off how it is kind of hard what I do. Like my pain body, to use an Eckhart Tolle term, wants to go, yes, and public speaking is the number one fear.

16:39And if anyone had to do what I had to do tonight, you wouldn't be chilly doing a podcast. You'd be in your hotel room sharpening stakes for vampires. Like you'd be terrified. Sure. Okay. But I also believe that I'm being paid for all the shows I did for free for 20 years. You know what I mean? It's all of those. It's very hard and it's stressful and it's all these things, but my wife points out and she's right. Like, it's also my dream and it's not hers and it's not theirs. Yeah. You know, like, like you're getting to do the thing that you... Thank you. Like her dream... Don't burden them with it.

17:11Yeah, like... I wish I could stay, but I have to do Transformers 9. Yeah. No, you don't. You want to. Right. You want to. Your spouse's dream was not for you to be a stand-up comic, right? Like they had their own... And so it's just about acknowledging that when you're part of a team, everyone is giving up, just as I'm giving up things. We're all making trade-offs. Yeah. So you don't get to act like you're not getting something in exchange for what you're giving up and the work you're doing and all that. Yeah. But I want to talk to you about another joke. Tell me. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to.

17:43No, no, no. I did sort of my podcast. No, no. This is great. I love it. I thought you would like that. I totally did. And you said a phrase from a joke. I'm currently workshopping. Well, even to go to that, I had this friend who said once, because people go, well, I got to buy a house. and I got to invest my money. You got to put my money to work. And he was like, no, you don't. He was like, your money doesn't have to grow. You don't have to put pressure on yourself. Again, this is privileged, but not that privileged. His point is just like, people feel pressure to always make like, like that the end of life is to have a large pile.

18:11Right. And that if you don't do that, you're somehow not optimizing or making the most of what you had here. It's the corporate delusion. It's like, if we're not growing, we're dying. Yeah. You can see why that view is very good for the mortgage industry. If you want to buy a house, you should buy a house, but don't buy a house because you feel like it's the responsible thing to do. And if you don't buy a house, you're being irresponsible. It's like these decisions should incorporate a variety of factors. You don't have to get promoted to the highest position. You don't have to be, you don't have to do any of it.

18:41And I think that's, there's a good phrase. Like you are choosing to do it and it might be good to do, but you don't have to. So stop acting like you have a gun to your head and you're a saint. Right, right, right. I see this with my daughter with Duolingo. She's very, I don't even want to say she's learning Spanish. We're doing Duolingo. You're playing a Spanish-related game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She loves the screen time, let me tell you. But she loves her streak. Yeah. She has like a, I think her streak is 87 days. So we're proud of that. And then the way, I hate what I'm about to say, but the way I get her to do it is I say, we don't want to break the streak.

19:16But I've tried to stop saying that. In fact, I've corrected myself and been like, no, learning Spanish. I've tried everything. I'm like, sweetheart, it's like I speak Spanish a little bit. So it's like a secret language that you and I will have. Or we went to Mexico with her. It's like, isn't this fun? Like they're speaking Spanish. Like she got bit by an aunt and I had to speak Spanish. I was waiting for her to go like, oh, it's really just the streak. And I'm like, that's so many of us are living for the streak. Yeah. Or the score or the bank account or whatever it is. That's probably better than not.

19:48Like than the people who don't, they're like, why does the streak matter? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's more because you think it matters, you have to be able to hold this countervailing notion in your head at the same time, which is like, it is made up. Right. Like, the obligations are made up. We need both of those energies. We need both of those energies.

20:13Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

20:58We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course, because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism, too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you.

21:37Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. We just took our kids to an outdoor performance of the Nutcracker. They had a snow cone and then they went insane in the car ride home. And one of the things I try to remind myself when that's happening is that I don't control my kids' behavior, especially when they're too far gone like that. But I do control how I respond, right? That's stoicism, but it's also what Dr. Becky talks about. Dr. Becky is a clinical psychologist and a best-selling author, and she founded Good Inside, which is there to give parents practical, actionable tools for handling those everyday challenges with confidence.

22:21My wife introduced me to Dr. Becky's books. I love them. I've recommended them a million times. I've had her on the podcast. And as it happens, Dr. Becky is hosting two live Q &A events for Good Inside members. I am one of them. She signed me up for it about a year and a half ago. I've loved it ever since. On December 1st, you can join Dr. Becky for her How Not to Raise Assholes event, which is about avoiding entitlement and raising kind, empathetic kids. And on December 15th, she's hosting her How Not to Lose It Over the Holidays event, which I'm sure we could all use. As I said, I'm a big fan of Dr.

22:58Becky. She's been a great influence for me as a parent and just as a human being. And Daily Stoic listeners can join for 15 % off with code STOIC15. You just got to head over to goodinside.com to catch the events.

23:18All right. So you have a joke about the president moving into the White House. And does he, what happened? Where did you hear this joke? On your podcast. Oh my God. Your two episodes of Garrett are incredible. But you had a joke about - Oh, he gave me a great line in that. Yeah, go ahead. So your joke is about what happens to the president's used mattress? What happens to the mattress? Does each president get a new mattress? Yeah. Okay. So several years ago, I gave a talk to what's called the White House Communications Agency. People don't understand the White House is a military installation.

23:48It is run by a joint installation of all the branches of the government, all the military. So like the army, navy, whatever. So like the cooks are navy cooks. Oh, wow. Because where the president is, is the United States. And so the White House is a place, but also wherever the president is, is the White House, right? Because he has to have all his... So there's the president as a phone person, and they have a car person, and they have a... Can I interject with a tiny theory? He's... They're our dad. Yeah. And the Secret Service is his dad. Like, he protects us, but then he also has these parents that would, like, die for him and die in front of bullets.

24:24There's something really... I think that's one of the reasons why we struggle with electing a female is like, but it's dad. Yes. And the vice president, even though it's a man. Who's the dad's wife who's taking care of all the stuff. Just like for many years, like the first lady was like responsible for all the entertaining. Like someone has to be responsible. Like Jackie O, yeah, for example. But so the, and yeah, this is all male because they've only been male presidents, but. I love this. Are you going to tell me something about the mattress? Yes. So, but like somebody's responsible for the podium.

24:54Someone's responsible for the nuclear football. Obviously, the Secret Service does a lot of this, but just the whole operation around the president is run by what's called the White House Communications Agency. And I talked there in 2017 or 18 or whatever. So I know the person who was formerly the head of the White House Communications Agency. Oh my gosh. So I said, hey, I heard this joke on this podcast. I got to know what happens to the president's mattress afterwards. He was like, I was there when Trump was elected the first time, and I watched them tear literally everything out of the presidential bedroom.

25:32Carpets, drapes, it all gets replaced. The carpets? Just a fresh— A whole new room. Have you heard the expression that the Queen of England thinks the world smells like fresh paint? That's hilarious. Because everything has to, so you're walking in, this is just the life of someone that powerful. Everything is nice and fresh for you all the time. There's an Indian expression too. If you wear leather sandals, the world is covered in leather. Yes. Yeah. And there's a Louis C.K. bit where he goes, lions think people are the things that are going, it's like very funny. Very, very funny. So he was like, there's a joke.

26:06He said something like the president gets the cabinet they want or something. And he's like, my understanding is the president, if they want a Tempur-Pedic mattress, they get a Tempur-Pedic mattress. So it's probably just a - But it only has four years. That carpet only has four years. Yeah. It's a huge waste of carpet. Carpet I feel less about, but a mattress is so, like picture a dumpster. Not a dumpster. What am I trying to say? A dump. Yeah. I guess it was in the word. There's mattresses and tires. Yeah. Those are the two things that were like, how do we get rid of these fucking things? Four years, new mattress.

26:42Yeah, and that could be, I mean, he could be like, it's a little lumpy. I want a new one. Oh, for sure. I'm sure there's an unlimited budget for mattresses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's off the charts. So Jimmy Carter, who is known for being so responsible and meek, still got a mattress that only, he only had it for, was it eight years? I would imagine so. And yeah, it's interesting to think like they're not moving into an empty house. Like it comes, it's a furnished. A furnished house. So I'm sure at some point during the transition, somebody comes in and says, OK, I need 15 minutes of your time, Mr.

27:13President-elect. Yes. What kind of mattress do you like? What's your breakfast? Somebody asks them. I guarantee that's what happens. What kind of showerhead do you like? Yeah, exactly. I don't think Trump was using Biden's showerhead. I think everything's got to go. Yes. Which then brings up, it's like, you call it Lincoln's bedroom. Dude, that hasn't been Lincoln's bedroom for a long time. Well, I'm ready to blow your mind because in my office, I have, you know, like a door jam, like the crown molding that goes over a door. Yeah. I have a chunk of that from the White House. Wow. Because when Truman was president, he took the White House down to the studs.

27:50The White House was at, you know, 1945 or whatever was a shitty hundred year old house. Yeah. A hundred and what? When did it? I guess it burned down in 1812. But like, it's a shitty house, right? And the United States is now the predominant power in the world. This is the command center of the world. We've got to make it look good. Also, it's not secure or safe or strong. I've thought about that, too. I know the windows are bulletproof, but I'm like, there's so many windows. So you can see a picture. You can see he basically, they take it down on the studs. It replaces it with steel girders. Truman spends most of his presidency living at Blair House, which is like across the street.

28:28Wow, they rebuilt it. And so the... You had to be like, I'm the president and I can't even live in the White House. The builders stole like little things and then they've slowly appeared or it was went to go to the dump and someone was like, hey, I'm actually going to protect that. And so different pieces of it come up for auction from time to time. So I have a chunk in my office. That's incredible. Yes. It also begs the boat analogy is when you replace every part of it. Yeah, exactly. Is it still the White House? Well, so that's another delusion, by the way. What? Any permanent idea. It's like, that's fake.

29:05It's absolutely fake. Although there's another interesting way. So the Senate is staggered, right? So not everyone's up for reelection every year, right? So theoretically, the Senate is still the same body that's been there since George Washington was president. Because there's always been overlapping members from previous. And that models us. Like as long as I have a memory of yesterday, the continuity of me, it's like the string in the pearl necklace. It's like the Senate is the same string. Yes. We love that. It seems powerful. Well, the ship at Theseus thing is fascinating. My youngest is like obsessed with boats and ships.

29:44So I got him like a piece of old Ironsides, like which is we have the U.S. Navy has the oldest active ship in the U.S. Navy is old Ironsides, which is from like the War of 1812 or whatever. but obviously it's not the same ship because they've had to repair it so like it's this i mean it still floats it still works how much of it is original i mean good chunk of it's not because i have a small piece of it right yeah and so yeah is it the same white house that lincoln lived in is it the same white house that who madison lived in was washington is it the same one because it burned out in 1812 what what makes it the same yeah yeah or chicago there's there's this musician i reference him all the time i wish i knew who it was but he was on lsd and he kept, he was in a hotel room in Chicago and he kept touching things and going, is Chicago, is not Chicago.

30:34And if you've ever done a psychedelic, that is a great bit to do on a psychedelic is to be like Texas, not Texas. Like separation is the funniest thing. And watching our kids grow up too. My daughter's about to be seven. So cellularly she'll have been completely, she's probably been replaced multiple times because as a child, it's happening at such a rapid rate. I've heard people be like, oh, your kids are constantly dying. That version is gone. That version is gone. I find comfort in something more extreme, which is like what you call my daughter never, it's not there. In the same way that this isn't there.

31:10It's just whatever. How long do you have to be in Texas to be Texas? Is there some magical point? And how many times do I have to tell Lila her name is Lila? And then she goes, I'm Lila. Like it's all, everything I do is for my family. It's all thought. It's the Senate. If we can string together some continuity of beliefs, then it's real. And of course, I know this is a very lava lamp, like college, but I find all the most interesting things, it's a shame that they're only interesting when you're like on drugs. And I'm trying, that's not, obviously that's not true with you and I, and I'm assuming the listeners of this podcast, but most people, you're just like, what you call you is a cluster of sensations and thoughts that appear in a spacious, eternal, timeless, spaceless, boundless field that you go, is me?

32:02Is not me. But the feeling of my knuckles on this table and the feeling of me squeezing my belly occur in the same field. And we love that. That's the Senate. I think the problem for people is people think philosophy is like this way of, is this riddle that like tricks you into thinking you don't exist, right? There is no self. How do you know you exist? And what am I supposed to do with this information? Right. Right. But philosophy is actually more like your words hurt me. And then a stoic goes, how though? Like, show me how. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What Rupert Spire would say is, on whose behalf are you protesting?

32:38Yeah. Like, show me that. Obviously, it can be intellectually interesting to sort of take this all the way down to like, how do we know we're not living in a simulation? But for most of us, it should just be more like, yeah, why am I taking offense to this? Or like, why am I said I have to do this? Like, my therapist sometimes corrects me and she goes, no, no, what you make up about this is. Not this is. Or you're just realizing like, oh, no, no, the thing just is something. And then I have an opinion about that thing. And most of the time, a lot of the time, that opinion is making me feel shitty or insecure.

33:14It's almost always making you feel that thing. And so it's like, if philosophy is about helping you with that, and then maybe there's some professional mystics who can take it all the way to the, actually, nothing is permanent, nothing's ever lasted. How do we, you know, start with the mental tricks to help you just live better. Yeah. You're not going to just suddenly be questioning the purpose of everything and everyone. Right. I actually think going to the closed door saying like we all live in a simulation or there is no self or everything is a dream or whatever. Is there really such thing as right and wrong?

33:49Yeah, sure. That's just kind of like an amusement ride. Yes. And I think, I'm going to use a spiritual term here, but the ego, the separate self uses that to just seem important. It's the same thing as wearing a Raiders jersey and being like, I'm like these guys. Their strength is my strength. And when I go, this is a simulation, you're just kind of bolstering the fake thing by going like, you didn't fool me. The purpose of what you would call philosophy, what I would call mysticism, who cares, is actually to go through that door and to realize that what you seek is only veiled by the seeking of it.

34:25So when we're looking for peace and happiness, this is all Rupert Spira, by the way, which one of these has to be him. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. The nature of your being, the nature of awareness is peace. It's the lack of agitation. It's the lack of yearning. It's the lack of seeking. It's the lack of resisting. And then the mind gets activated and we start seeking. Oh, I hope this podcast goes well. That's fine. That's dance. That's play. But it does kind of rob me of my nature. So receding back, philosophy for the sake of knowing what's going on and then flexing that for people is stupid.

35:03When realizing anything that points you to the nature of the self, the only self there is, being, peace, patience, kindness, happiness, joy, that's valuable. I know it's stupid to now step back into our mind and be like, that's valuable. But I did that this morning. I was having a crummy morning. Crummy. and I you know I start my day reading Rupert and it reminded me that it was like it's my seeking for a good day that's keeping me from it the analogy that he uses it's like consciousness or awareness is the screen and this is the movie and there's no peace for the characters in the movie they'll eat sandwiches and feel happy sometimes they'll get hit by a car and be sad other times, but it's completely in flux all the time.

35:51What isn't in flux? The screen. Let's find the screen. Go to the experience of being aware and don't say, I don't know how to find my being. You're having that experience right now. It's not esoteric. It's go to it. I promise you know how to. That's going to the screen. That's step one. Step two is what is the nature of the screen? right and the nature of the screen just like a screen is spacious to me successful spirituality is how spacious are you not how good are you at winning a debate or whatever spacious you just mean like chill what do you mean allowing yeah the nature of the screen you could say the nature of gone is this yes it's this it's almost offensive how yes it is yeah and when we realize that we are that yes.

36:42I'll give you an example. I took an Uber here and the guy was listening to Christian Rock, which happens a lot in Texas. And I'm only a little embarrassed to admit that it can be a little triggering to me because I grew up in that world and whatever. Those were good meaning people, but it didn't do me a lot of favors. It kind of confused me and scared me. So when I hear that music, I used to sing that music. I used to lead the worship team. I'm listening to it and I'm like, and I'm like, no, like, let's just try to like be with what it actually is. And this is the other thing that came to mind.

37:19I'm reading nonviolent communication. I actually guess I could say I've read it. There's a little bit left. And he tells a story that really changed. I have other examples of it, but it was a good one. He tells two stories of getting hit in the nose. Maybe you heard me say this on my podcast. He got elbowed in the nose twice in the same week. same force, same blood, same everything. One time it hurt like the Dickens. The other time it didn't hurt. Same exact fracture. And he was like the first time he was breaking up for fight both times. The first time the kid, he was pulling off the other kid.

37:52He hated this kid. This kid was a shit, a bad student, just a smart ass and had rubbed this guy the wrong way. He hit him in the nose and it really hurt. The second time it was this sweet kid that he actually had a lot of love and compassion for because he saw that he was kind of picked on and his heart was open to him, got elbowed by this kid. That's how fast the brain will build a story. Right. The interpretation of this person did it because they're bad and this person did it as an accident. And that's what I mean. It's like, do you want to use this powerful tool to interpret everything down to a kind of nothingness or nihilism?

38:27Or do you just want to do it so you're not taking shit so personally anymore? I'm just saying most people just take the most effective 80 % of the thing and leave the 20 % to the people who are really into it. Don't let the sort of mystic woo-woo part of it confuse you or deter you from the fact that the bulk of this is very practical and very helpful in the course of your normal life where you have a job and kids and you're not a monk at a silent meditation retreat. I would say that last 20 % is bolstering yourself to the point where you can convince other people of it and win debates. And then And how silly is that?

39:06And I'm guilty of this all the time. You've bolstered up something that you just spent all that time convincing yourself doesn't exist. And Eckhart Tolle talks about that. It's like monks bowing to each other on meditation retreats. That is, that's a little candy. You're special, I bow to you. But also, to your point, let's not get gunked up too much. There's this, I think it's Rumi. He's like, it's going to be a terrible paraphrase, but he's like, you're in the orchard. Yeah. Stop asking who planted the orchard and just eat some apples. That's a terrible paraphrase. No, in meditation, Mark Surriles talks about, he says, you don't have to delve into everything that lies beneath.

39:43You can just kind of, and I think there's something, Nietzsche was not always a big fan of the Stoics, but he said, sometimes the Stoics were superficial out of profundity. And there's something about just kind of staying on the surface that's like, hey, I got hit in the nose, you know, or, hey, I like this apple. I don't need to know why it came here, who planted it, or just like, hey, the stock market went down today. Not the stock market went down and now my portfolio is fucked and now I have to work longer. And then, by the way, why did this happen? It happened because of this policy. Right.

40:17And it's these idiots who voted for this. It's just like, it's just news. Accept it as information and move on. And if you heard that it happened to someone else, you'd be like, it is what it is. But what happens to you, you just need so much more in the way of explanation. and then you need to ruminate on it and you're not really doing yourself any favors.

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41:15That's an epiphany anew at least once a month where I go, oh my God, when it's me, it seems to be so meaningful. When you're having an issue, I'm like, Ryan, you're just the screen. You know, like when it's happening to me, I'm like, this is urgent. That's why like, I'm with you. Everything we've said, what my teacher Rupert Spira teaches is called the pathless path, meaning it's not even a path, meaning it's not even something we need to explain. It's when, whenever, anytime, good times, bad times, just kind of quietly keep a tether in the fact that you are the screen, not to have some sort of afterlife, reward or the thrill of being smarter than everybody.

42:01Or like me listening to the Christian music and being like, I find this theologically unsound. Good for you, Pete. I wonder if part of it is you're just like, you're a little embarrassed that you used to like be this person. And since you're not that person, there's a little bit of sort of projected shame of like, you're seeing yourself in that and you didn't like that in yourself. So you can't just, you can't allow this person to earnestly be dumb about something. When, well, I went through all of this. I was like, not even in like a, there's a way to be pious in this way. I'm like, I don't know this guy's experience.

42:36He might be, and without a doubt, I'm being real, classic Christian praise music has, when I say converted, I don't mean into Christianity. I mean, fundamentally changed the way people view the world and how they interact with it. And we would call that enlightenment in some circles. Like you, you recognized through those sets of symbols, just to me, I remember singing those songs and just wanting so badly to believe them. Like, and kind of feeling my, just for me, the theater of it. And I was like, and the winning of it. It's so winning. No, I remember, no, like you get taken to your friend's church and they're like, it's got really good music.

43:17And then you're listening and you're like, I guess. And is this supposed to be doing something for me that it's not doing? It's not, yeah. I saw this meme once this girl was talking about how she grew up going to church, listening to music. She was very moved by it. And then she went to a concert at like 20. And then she realized like, oh, it's music that I like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think you can kind of, depending on your awareness of things, you can kind of go, oh, I used to be someone that that worked on. Yeah. And then when it doesn't work on you, there's a little cognitive dissonance of like, you're like suspicious or cynical about it because now you're someone who feels like it doesn't work on you.

43:56And then it existing, you're like, I don't know. I sometimes listen. I go, what? Yeah. This wasn't obvious to me before. There might even be another thing going on, which is a little bit of a mourning. I felt that way walking around Austin. And I was like, just this morning during my crummy morning. and I was like, oh my God, like I don't drink anymore. And I'll tell you this, when you stop drinking, Austin makes less sense.

44:27I was just walking going like, it had, for me, when I had my rocking times in Austin, it was so much about alcohol and like getting that kind of loose that you want to go to a piano bar and you want to eat pizza or chicken fingers or whatever it is. and I'm like now I love the morning like my favorite thing about Austin I got up at 10 30 still if you get up at 10 30 you're like an old man feeding the pigeons nobody's there and I went to a coffee shop and I was there was no line I was like this is incredible because everybody's fucking hung over and I had this like pang remember in Mad Men where he goes nostalgia is a wound.

45:09That's where I think most people learn that from Don Draper. But I was like, it felt melancholy to me. I was like, I don't miss drinking and partying. And that sounds like cocaine. I just mean staying up and mingling. There was a time for it, but you can't help but go like, oh my God, I'm 46. I'm a dad. Like it's all going. And then again, this isn't very much philosophy, I went, but is the sense of awareness or being, whatever word you like, is it a different awareness that's aware of 46-year-old Pete that was aware of 26-year-old Pete that used to tear it up? Or is it the same? Is the screen different?

45:50It's all... It all happened real fast. I was downtown. The mind interprets it day by day by day, but the screen, it just... It's like the book is already close. Rupert has a great, I want to hear your downtown thing. He's like, all of time is already written. It's in a book and the mind perceives it as page by page, but there's a comfort in going like, yeah, I've told you this before. You said, I think about all the time that I should write a book called, yes, thank you. You just go, yes, thank you. Now I'm the 46 year old guy feeling a little bit sad that I used to like eat pizzas. You should be grateful that you got to do it as opposed to missing that you're not currently doing it.

46:29Yeah. And that you don't know what's next. Yeah. And you could, by, by sort of pining for what was, what you're doing is rejecting what is right now. Yeah. Like there's going to be a time when you're 80 and you're like struggling. You're like, I wish I could just get up and go for a nice walk outside. Like I have some much older friends or, and that you're just like, oh, you can't like just get on a plane and go to another city. That is like a thing you have to think about now. And so that, that version of Pete will be like, remember I was just, I got up at like 10, I was walking around Austin and you weren't there for it.

47:06Yes. I'll even do one more extreme and say, yes, thank you to the nostalgia, to the pain, to like that, that to me is like enlightenment or self-realization or conversion or whatever. It can't just be a good feeling because good feelings appear and they disappear. So it can't be essential to you. Again, I'm paraphrasing Rupert. So anything that's appearing and disappearing isn't what we're talking about when we're talking about the self. The screen is there when the movie is a bummer. The screen is there when the movie is absent. Like waiting for a consistent and constant state of euphoria is like saying, again, this is Rupert, when the movie shows me an orgy where everyone's eating pizza, then I'll see the screen.

47:54Yeah. Who cares? Pete's resisting the day. Can I allow that? Like really extreme, fierce yes, thank you-ness and be like, it's even further than saying when I'm 80, I'll miss this time. It's like, no, I'm actually going to say yes to my being like a little bit miserable about it. Well, it's very easy to say yes, please, or yes, thank you when you're like looking at the Grand Canyon or your kid is running to jump in your arms or you're like on stage, it's very easy to do it to the things that you actually want. The whole point is, can you get to a place where you have gratitude and acceptance? Like the Stokes use this word ascent, A-S-S-E-N-T, like not, you know, not like up a mountain, but just like accepting this.

48:39And I think there's something about the gratitude or the saying, the practice being like, yes, thank you, this is it. That's just deciding to, this is what it is as opposed to what I want it to be or not want it to be, it just is. And the whole point is, can you do that when at some level you actually don't want to say thank you? That's really the only time it matters. No, that's the best use of it, though. Yes, that's the only time. Being grateful for things you should be grateful for, to not do that is in gratitude. Gratitude as a practice has to be, can you do it when you don't want to? And I think another way to think about this is with discipline or with courage or any of the virtues.

49:16If you're not afraid, then you can't be courageous, right? If you're not tempted or if you want to do it, then you can't say it was discipline. Again, back to that, I do it all for my family. No, you did it because you wanted to do it and it happens to be in your family's best interest. For the life that you desire. I don't like alcohol. I just don't like the taste. So I don't make a big thing about the fact that I don't drink because it's not really about self-control. There's other things that I don't do that I want to do that I go, hey, I'm a person who doesn't do that. Yeah. That's about discipline.

49:49Right. But I didn't drink last night because I find it yucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like - You can't claim sobriety or the virtue of - So when you're in golden hour at the beach - Yeah. And you're just like, it's so wonderful to be alive. I'm so grateful. I'm so happy. If you can't do it there, there's something wrong with you. The point is, can you do it in traffic? Well, yeah, on the tarmac of a delayed flight. But that's when it'll feel really, really good. Because again, what I was reading this morning, it's fresh on my mind, is the separate self. So the seemingly private inside self, which as we've already kind of covered is a cluster of memories and thoughts and sensations that we go like, these are consistent, they're me.

50:33Isn't an entity, it's an activity. And the activity is seeking and resisting. So when you say, yes, thank you, you're neither seeking nor resisting. So what's revealed is what we've been calling the screen. so when you're in on a tarmac which isn't that unpleasant but it's pretty shitty people tend to lose their shit a little bit on a tarmac and you say yes thank you to that you see that again the movie playing is a guy bored on an airplane but the screen the fundamental mystery that is the most exciting thing in the world maybe not to the mind yeah is as present there as it is when you're in a three-way on the beach.

51:14Well, Robert Greene, his episode on your show is one of my all-time favorites. Really? Not many people know him like that. And you got like fun, funny, like mischievous Robert, which most people get to sort of serious - It used to be in character. Yeah. Yeah. And they get the intellectual, professional Robert and you got him talking about like upper deckers and stuff. Like it was amazing. But he told me once, and he gave me this dichotomy that I think about all the time. I wrote it down. I framed it. It's on my wall. And he was talking to me specifically as like, I was thinking about leaving my job to become a writer and, but I had some time left, but he just said, he's like, there's two types of time in life.

51:50There's a live time and there's dead time. And you get to choose what every moment is. And so his point was like, you have to work this job for another year before you quit to become a writer. Are you just going to kill a year of your life? Or is this year going to, you're going to look back and be like, that year set me up for all the stuff that I'm doing in the future. Like, I really got a lot out of that year. And so I kind of think about, like, I just flew a ton and every single one of my flights was delayed for multiple hours. Oh, wow. And I would just go like, okay, is this a live time or dead time?

52:18What phone calls do I need to make? How many miles am I going to walk in the airport? What book am I going to have read? You know, like, how am I just not going to erase three hours of my life because United said we would take off at seven. And in fact, we took off at 10. so I was just like, I'll die. You know, like, why would I kill myself for three hours? Or just for no purpose, I'm just going to go like, this time is insignificant and not worth living. When we kill time, time is killing us. So you never get those three hours back. And I'm not saying you have to be like Mark Wahlberg and get a workout in, but I'm just saying like, what are you going to do in that time?

52:59Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, That would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.