Stoop and Build ’Em Up | Stronger Stoics Together

0:00Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, discipline, justice, and wisdom, and wisdom into the real world.

0:15Stoop and build them up. Zeno lost everything in a shipwreck, a family fortune, his occupation, his entire future swallowed by the sea. On at least two occasions, Seneca lost everything he'd worked so hard for. First, illness derailed his legal career, and it took him a full ten years, his prime years, to recuperate. operate. Then, just as he was getting things back on track, he ran afoul of the emperor and was banished from Rome for nearly as long as he had been infirm. Zeno and Seneca, like countless other Stoics and people throughout history, were members of Rudyard Kipling's club, the one where we learned to watch the things you gave your life to broken and stoop and build them up with worn-out tools.

0:58There was nothing Zeno could have done to prevent that shipwreck. There was nothing Seneca could have done to prevent that illness or that exile. Just as there was nothing that you could have done to prevent this or that bad break. But here you are, facing it. That's life. Stuff happens. Then what? We can whine about it. We can shift blame. We can become bitter or disillusioned. Or we can lose and start again at our beginnings, Kipling writes, and never breathe the word about your loss. Shipwreck, exile, failure, getting fired, a season-ending injury, none of these things are good. They are certainly not things we would choose.

1:36But for a stoic, they can be good if they make you good. It's not unfortunate if one finds a way to make something fortunate from them. So stoop down, pick up the worn-out tools, and start building again.

1:55Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. It is pouring rain here in Austin right now. It's about to go for a run. And I said, you know, maybe there's a chance the rain will die out a little bit. So why don't I record some stuff? The kids are at school, so it's quiet. Maybe I'll just record for a little bit, change the order up. So that's what I'm doing, just waiting out the rain. It's those spring showers. Spring sort of snuck up on me. I don't know if it snuck up on you, but it sort of snuck up on me. And that's why the Daily Stoic Spring Forward Challenge is perfectly timed.

2:29It's going to start on March 20th. I'd love to see you in there. We've got an awesome discount for Daily Stoic podcast listeners. Just head over to dailystoic.com slash spring and enter code DSPOD20 to get 20 % off. In today's episode, I wanted to bring you some of the Q &A from last year's Spring Forward Challenge. Thousands of Stoics all over the world did the challenge together. I got better, they got better. I think you might get better by doing it with us this year. But here are some questions we answered from folks in the Spring Forward Challenge.

3:06Hey, how are you? Thanks for having me on. And I just really want to say thank you because um you know i was in a car accident in uh 2003 that left me paralyzed from the waist down oh wow and uh then your challenge came about um because i receive all your newsletters and i just thought it was a great opportunity and the my favorite challenge within that was the one about just trying to forgive yes it wasn't necessarily about forgiving um anyone in particular but forgiving the situation that I found myself in, instead of being so angry and sort of feeling victimized about it, was just trying to find peace about it and trying to reframe the impression and look at this as an opportunity to like, well, you know what, maybe you were going at 100 miles an hour.

3:53Why did that accident actually happen? And maybe take time to regroup. And I really found that very beneficial. And I loved writing all of this down and then burning it up like you asked us to. And yeah, it was actually very therapeutic. So thank you for everything. Well, it's incredible to hear your story. I can only imagine that anger and resentment and, you know, sort of grievance would be a part of anything that would, you know, you would lose something like that. So that's very understandable. And you might, you know, Epictetus loses at least partial use of one of his legs through this torture that he went through.

4:26I can imagine why he would be, you know, he would have, In his case, a specific person did a specific thing to him. So he would have, you know, sort of every justification for fixating on that. And I think his point was, no amount of fixating on it is going to change it, though. And so how do you sort of move forward? When you say you're not angry at a specific person, you're just sort of angry at the world that it happened? Yeah, I think it's very easy to fall into that trap. I'm like, well, why was I chosen? Sure. And so instead of feeling somewhat victimized and just being angry at the universe or the cosmos, I think you were talking about metaphysics a few minutes ago, right?

5:09It's kind of understanding the situation. And actually, I've really come to embrace it the last, you know, two weeks of being home. I've been writing more. I've been reading more, you know, kind of this minimalist kind of approach. And I've really found it beneficial and, you know, just kind of repeating these mantras every single day that I'm writing to myself and then, you know, constantly reading the lives of the Stoic. You know, I just read about Cato, too. And, you know, what I learned about Cato was his inability to compromise. Right. So, yes, I have I have a lot to learn from that as well.

5:42How do I compromise with this situation as well? I'm fascinated by what you're talking about. And it strikes me. I do this in my own life. you know, there's two ways to look at what happened, right? One way is that you were unfairly chosen to have this terrible thing happen to the other way to look at it. I was just writing about this in the book that I did with with George traveling. He has this terrible car accident that he does manage to walk away from. But, you know, the the police officer comes up to him after the accident. He goes, you know, 95 percent of the time when I come upon an accident like this, I'm putting somebody into a body bag.

6:19And his point was like, you were lucky that you lived, that you were chosen to live. And so it's interesting how we can look at the same situation and go, hey, why was I so unlucky that I lost this in the accident? And just as easily, we could say, how lucky am I that I survived the accident versus dying in said accident? And this is that stoic practice of what handle are we going to grab? And obviously, I try to practice this in my life in much less serious situations, but we're so quick to focus on what we were deprived of as opposed to what we were given, or we focus on what was taken rather than being grateful for what they didn't also take that they just as easily could have taken in that same swoop.

7:04Hi, Ryan. Thanks for being here. You speak a lot about in the challenge of saying no, you share that picture of your schedule, which is blank. No, you can't pick my brain, et cetera. I'm always trying to gear towards something like that myself. Do you mind speaking about sort of grappling with that and any friction that comes up with also the goals to bring the circles closer to you, the mentoring importance that you talk about a lot on your podcast and also in the challenge as well? I try to balance that. I'd be curious to hear your balancing act. Yeah. When I show a blank day in my calendar and I say, this is my ideal day.

7:43Obviously, I'm being a little facetious. That's pretty rare. But mostly what I'm saying when I see a blank day in my calendar, when I see it, it's not that I'm not working. It's that I haven't scheduled a bunch of distractions from the work, you know, and it's it's when I am doing a bunch of things that I shouldn't be doing that I find myself much less generous, you know, to somebody who emails me or somebody who walks into the bookstore. Like, I think one of the problems is we end up saying yes to so many things that we don't even know all the things that we're saying no to. And when we're overtaxed, when we're overcommitted, when we're just bogged down, I think it makes it hard for us to be compassionate, to be generous, to also to take advantage of serendipity, right?

8:28Or random things that come across our path. And so I'm just trying to be more conscious of having large blank spaces so I can be a little bit more free-flowing and what I say yes and no to. The problem for me is when it's like, I have this at nine o 'clock, this at 10 o 'clock, there's a two minute break between. And if one goes long, then I'm right. And like, so not only do I literally not have that much time, but I'm stressed and I, and I am like really hoping and expecting things to go. I need things to go a certain way, right. Or else I can't physically or literally do all the things. that's just not me at my best you know i'm best when things are chill and i think most of us are are there going to be moments where you know there's some big thing that you've thrown yourself into there's some really important thing you're solving or you're in the middle of a disaster of course all that goes out the window then the problem is i think day to day we're often in this sort of crisis management mode and it's totally self-inflicted and it's it's doing nothing for nobody.

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12:26My question is, and I did the New Year's New Year challenge, love the burn the anger list. I'll do it again. but I started to think as I was writing the list down is what's better to burn this or to reframe and accept these things and or address them. And it's probably a combination of all the above, but just curious on your thoughts on those two different approaches. No, I think that's right. I mean, look, there's even a slight contradiction in the days we have the idea of writing these things down and burning it. And then we also have the idea of making amends. These are, you know, different ways of getting at the same thing.

13:06I think the idea is, you know, how do you get this off your shoulder? How do you get it off your chest? How do you get it out of your mind and onto the page or into the air? The idea is just to stop carrying it around. And we just carry around too much stuff. We carry around mental load, emotional load. We're just carrying too much stuff. So whatever processes it, whatever gets rid of it, that's what I want. Like, look, do you throw this stuff away or do you donate it to charity or do you sell it? Those are three ways of accomplishing the same thing. One's better for your pocketbook, maybe one's better for the world, one's faster.

13:48And I think depending on what the thing is, that might answer your question. But then also, one of the things I find when I'm getting rid of stuff, just to be real specific, is we'll go, OK, we're going to get rid of this stuff. And then we say, oh, but that's valuable. So we should sell it. And then what that really means is it's just going to sit in the garage longer. Or it means we say we're going to donate it. And what that really means is we're going to drive it around for a couple of weeks in the trunk of the car. So we're really just doing a doom box thing, really just moving stuff around.

14:19And so whatever helps you process the thing faster helps you move on. I'm all I'm all about. So I'm agnostic, I guess, is what I'm saying. Yeah. Great question, though. Lisa, what's up? Thank you. I'm new. I got the Daily Stoic Journal and it's helped. And I've been reading meditations at the same time. So this is a bit of a one off. But I'm struggling with the concept of reason versus emotion. I'm empathetic and somewhat intuitive, and I rely on my emotions to help guide me with impressions of others and how to move forward. And I combine that with what I think is logic and reasoning. And I'm not sure when I'm reading through meditation, it almost seems like the emotion part of it, which I'm interpreting as the reactiveness.

15:19is what I've got to watch and catch and just let it go. But there are parts of me I can't let go. It's part of my reasoning and logic. Could you comment on that and help guide me to other reading or whatever? Well, look, I don't have a problem with the idea. And I don't think the stoics do being guided by your emotions, being informed by them, instructed by them. The problem is when we are led by our emotions, when we are in the thrall of our emotions, you know, like if you're angry about something, maybe that's because there's an injustice there. Or maybe that's because, you know, you are recognizing something you don't like about yourself.

16:02Right. That's a valuable piece of information. Now, punching someone because you're angry, calling them mean names or sending an angry email, not so great. And so the idea of our emotions informing and instructing and opening our eyes to things, great. Unthinkingly being led by our emotions is something very different. And I think intuition is probably right there in the middle between those two things. Intuition is sort of hard-won experience. Maybe it's even an experience or lessons you haven't quite been able to articulate, but some part of you knows, but even though you don't know, I like all that.

16:45So the Stoics, I would say, try to be less emotional rather than emotionless, right? It's not about reducing or eliminating our emotions, but it is about not being overcome by and directed by our emotions. And that's the distinction I would make. OK, because I can cry from joy. Sure. I feel so deeply. and when I'm reading through this, I'm like, you know, I'm picking and choosing what resonates with me and what can help me have serenity and a stronger mind, but I don't want to lose that aspect of me, and that's okay. Look, you can cry from sadness also. We just did a Daily Stoic email about how often we, how many stories we have about Marcus Aurelius crying, but I think there's a difference between crying because you're sad or crying because something hurts and then, you know, giving up or quitting, you know?

17:44So, so it's about what you do after the, the emotion. I guess I have a logistical question. Okay. There's so much stuff coming at us, um, every day. I mean, if we just restrict ourselves to the things that you do, you know, we have these challenges that have something every day. There's the Daily Stove emails. There's the Daily Stove book. And that's only this one universe, right? There's so many things and so many good ideas. There's so many, you know, you see these things like, oh, I want to do that. I want to, you know, I want to incorporate this into my life. How do you, in a structured way, you know, incorporate this and remember everything.

18:29I mean, I know you literally can't remember everything, but how do you not lose sight of it or lose your grasp on these various ideas that you want to incorporate? Yeah, I don't think the Stoics were parochial or dogmatic. You know, Seneca talks about how he wants to learn from every single one of the schools. He reads widely. I think the Stoics would have been fascinated by Buddhism or Confucianism or Hinduism had they known about it. They would have found things to like. They would have found things that they disagreed with. And I think both schools would have been better for that discussion.

19:07So obviously, Stoicism is mostly what I write about. But I think if I'm the only person you're getting anything from, you're swimming in a pretty small pool. So I try to read widely. I try to enrich my life with as many different sources and ideas and schools of thought as possible. Now, ultimately, I do sort of come back to a core set of ideas that I find I need the most help with. And I go over them over and over again. This is also from Seneca that we sort of linger on the works of the master thinkers. But we got plenty of time. We should read as widely as possible and try to absorb as many sort of disparate ideas and benefit from as much ancient wisdom and modern wisdom and cutting edge science as possible.

19:54That's kind of how I think about it. Do you do anything in a structured way or do you just kind of let yourself absorb these and hope that those things that are most important to you just rise to the top over time? Well, I guess to use the word we were just talking about, I sort of try to be intuitive And I just kind of go towards what I feel like I need, what I would like to learn about, what I don't know about. And I just kind of follow that. And then sometimes I come back home and start over again. So I'm much more intuitive as opposed to like, this is my practice. And I read six pages from this every day and two pages from this.

20:30I'm kind of just going through. My question is, and I know we're going around it in different ways, because it really is the spring challenge is getting rid of stuff. I mean, that's the heart of it is spring cleaning, right? So I'm just looking for, I think there's this blending of emotion and identity that keeps us grasping for things and making it so inefficient. So yesterday, so I had boxes of books and it took a lot for me to give away the will to power Nietzsche, my college book, like I'm not reading it and it was just so inefficient that I was still grasping so I'm looking for something that's just a little bit more of an efficient way to just immediately make the decision let it go make the decision let it go and because I could spend a month with thousands of books no no I totally get it the emotion that we project or the identity we project on the thing makes it hard to get rid of.

21:35And it feels pointless to get rid of it. And look, I can't give you any advice specifically about books because I am a hoarder of books, as you can tell from even this set behind me. But I'll tell you something I've been doing with my kids. I forget who I learned this from. Maybe it was from Dr. Becky. But when we're at a store and they're like, I want this or I want that, I want this, I want that. A lot of times what my kids are doing is that they're just, it's like they just saw this thing for the first time. They're worried that if they don't get it right now, it will disappear forever and they'll never have a chance to have it ever again.

22:10Even if this is a place we come, you know, every Saturday. And so one of the things we learn what we do is we just go, okay, we can't have that right now. I'm not saying we can't have it ever, but we can't have it right now. But in the meantime, let's just take a picture of it. We'll just take a picture of it. My phone is filled with thousands of pictures of stuff my kids saw in stores or even saw in videos that they liked that they have never once asked to see ever again. But just the idea of like, hey, I'm going to I'm going to capture this for a moment. I'm going to validate this feeling that you have because it's perfectly valid to be attached to this thing or interested in this thing.

22:49In your case to go, this is my college copy of Nietzsche. Look, here's the cover. Here's a passage that I underlined, you know, whatever. You don't have to lose that, especially if there is some way to keep a piece of it forever. But do you need a, you know, a one and a half pound memento of that thing? Maybe not. And so, I don't know, that's something I've been doing and I've been trying to apply on things that I don't need anymore, but I have trouble getting rid of because I'm attached to I just take a picture of it. I like it. I think that's sort of the journaling, like, because that's what I need is the efficient tool.

23:30And so just creating sort of a photo montage journal of loved it. It was important. Somehow I identified with it as being I'm an intellectual or, you know, whatever, you know, whatever it was and then dispense with it, you know, and that could be a clothing item to, you know, just, oh, how beautiful. all that blah, blah, blah, blah, take a picture. That was a lovely wedding, blah, blah, blah, out. So I like that. I think that's really helpful. Thanks, Ryan.

24:21this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say thank you.