Stop Asking For The Third Thing | with Right Thing, Right Now Excerpt

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1:04Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

1:44Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. So I got a text from R.C. Buford, who is the CEO of the Spurs, and he was the GM of all the great championship teams. And I thought he would be sending me a note because the spurs are in the book. I talk about the coaching tree of the spurs and how impressive that is, that organizations are great not just because of what they do, but what the people inside them go on to do. So I thought he was going to recognize that. It was a surprise I told him about in the book. But instead, he sent me a note about a chapter that's in part three of the book, this don't ask for the third thing, which is a really key, I think, important stoic exercise, something I struggle with.

2:27I think we all struggle with. He doesn't strike me as someone who struggles with it, but he saw something in that and then admitted it to me I thought was pretty cool. And so I wanted to run that chapter for you now from the audiobook of Right Thing Right Now. And I'll give you another sort of personal connection to it, right? I wrote what I think is my best book. Like I became better for doing it. I worked really hard on it. I think it has a bunch of my best writing in it. I'm really proud of it. And then you might have listened on the second part of the Max Joseph episode. There's me getting my call from my agent.

3:01So me writing a good book, me getting to put that book out in the world, people getting to read it. That's thing one. That's thing two. The third thing, what this chapter is about is that, is the recognition, the attention, the gratification that comes from that. And actually, I found out yesterday that the book hit the list for the second time. All really cool. I'm grateful for it. But I've tried to work over the years at not asking for that, not needing it, not letting it change my original feelings about it. So if I had phoned the book in, if I thought it was garbage, and then everyone said it was good, does that change the fact that I know I cheated it, that I didn't give my best, that there was problems I didn't have the discipline or courage to fix?

3:43No. And the fact that I think it's good and then I got the recognition or the gratification doesn't change anything either. I do want to say I so appreciate everyone supporting the book. I appreciate you listening to this podcast. I try not to be motivated by those external things, but it does mean something to me. It's more to me than what Seneca calls these preferred indifference. Like I want it more than I don't want it. If I had a choice, I'm of course going to choose it. But I try not to let it motivate me. I am trying to get better at taking the compliment when the third thing is offered, accepting it, appreciating it, feeling grateful for it, recognizing it, but not needing it.

4:21And so that's where we are. Here is don't ask for the third thing. It's one of the hardest things to do in all of Stoicism, but I think one of the most important. You can grab the audiobook for Right Thing right now. Good character, good values, good deeds, anywhere books are sold. You can grab signed copies at store.dailystoic.com. You can swing by the painted porch. I just signed a bunch of them. or support your local indie retailer or anywhere you get your books. I appreciate it. This is one of my favorite chapters in the book. Enjoy.

4:53Stop asking for the third thing. What the writer Dawn Dorland did was incredible. She gave her kidney to a stranger. By literally opening up her body and giving away a piece of herself, she saved someone's life. Even more beautifully, her donation inspired the spouse of the recipient, who was not a match, to give their own kidney to someone else. What an angel. Most people who knew her saw her that way. Except one. As Dorland began to post about her donation and the recovery process, her friends were supportive. But as nice as they were, what stuck out to Dorland was that one of them, an acquaintance and fellow writer named Sonia Larson, was oddly silent.

5:33And so in a moment that they would both rue forever, she wrote the woman to ask why. What would ensue was a tragic, almost comic conflict, whose escalation even the most imaginative novelist could not have predicted. Dorland's very human desire for recognition, to be appreciated for what she did, Larson's cynicism and sensitivity, the social faux pas, the fragile egos, the whims of the creative process and the power of social media would collide first in a fictional and unflattering short story. Larson wrote about a woman with a white savior complex and would culminate in lawsuits, accusations of plagiarism, and a flood of publicity.

6:15The nicest thing that Dorland had ever done was turned into a farce, portrayed as an act of narcissism or worse. Larson, in turn, spent thousands and thousands of dollars she didn't have to defend her art in court from Dorland, whose thin skinness and need for attention all but prove the caricature Larson had portrayed in her fiction, none of it should have happened, none of it except the original sin, or rather the original kindness. But this is what the ancients would have told us, that nothing good results from trying to chase down gratitude or recognition for what you've done. When you've done well and another has benefited by it, why, like a fool, do you look for a third thing on top?

6:54Credit for the good deed or a favor in return, Marcus Aurelius would ask himself. And repeatedly, Marcus would return to this idea in meditations because, like the rest of us, he was frustrated when his best efforts weren't always understood or appreciated, let alone repaid. In fact, that was the fate of a leader, he later joked to earn a bad reputation while doing good things.

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8:58It's long been said that being a good person is a thankless task. But if you're doing it for the thanks, how good are you really? It's not just that chasing the third thing will get us in trouble, as it did for Dorland, but that it undermines what we've done. In a sense, both of her acts are incomprehensible. Writing to a friend to say, in effect, why haven't you acknowledged this incredible thing I've done? So extra. Giving up a vital organ for someone she'd never met, also extra. And yet the former tarnishes the beauty of the latter. When Churchill called America's rescue of Europe after World War II the most unsorted act in history, he must have in part been referring to Truman's waving off of recognition or legacy.

9:39I'm not doing this for credit, Truman would explain. I'm doing it because it's right. I'm doing it because it's necessary to be done if we're to survive ourselves. But the thankless of it, the selflessness of it, that was what made it great. That was also what made it so strategically brilliant. Certainly the Soviets could have never done it themselves, and in fact, the offer itself, which was extended to the Soviet bloc, was baffling to them. So Truman spent all his political capital to give capital away to a largely underwhelming reaction at the time. But he had been there before. For decades, his politically clean hands had been unrecognized.

10:16In fact, he was unfairly given a reputation for being corrupt. It was not right. But then again, neither would the alternative have been. Should Truman have taken bribes because what the hell everyone already thinks I'm corrupt anyway? Better to do right and go unrewarded than to do wrong and go unpunished. Besides, the doing is the reward. Feel amazing for doing an amazing thing. You don't need anyone to tell you what you are. The Bible reminds us in Matthew 6 too not to sound the trumpets announcing what you've done. Jesus also reminded his followers that when one looks back behind them when plowing, they allow the horses to drift.

10:53And so it goes when we look back and admire what we've done, relishing our specialness or generosity. It's a distraction from moving forward. It's a lapse in judgment. But it's hard. We want to hear that our parents are proud of us. We want our spouse to say thank you, to acknowledge what we do for them. We want to be made whole for what we've done, given, sacrificed. More than that, we want recognition, respect. We want appreciation. And when we do good things, we want credit. Is that so unreasonable? Here's an argument that it is. You didn't do anything you weren't supposed to do. As a talented and intelligent person, it was your job to do that thing.

11:32Whether it was a nice gesture or some difficult-to-pull-off feat, you did what you were capable of doing, what you were trained to do, what you were expected to do. You are supposed to be generous. You are supposed to be kind. The fact that no one is rushing to throw you a parade is its own kind of compliment in a way. We're not surprised because we know you. We know who you are. Of course you did good. Of course you helped someone clean something up or took the blame when it wasn't your fault. Who better to do it than you? What's surprising or rather disappointing is to find out that you did it for the wrong reasons, that you were more self-involved than selfless, that it didn't come from a place of strength and generosity, but of insecurity and thirst.

12:13There is nothing more desperate and calculating than a person who goes around thinking about legacy as if anyone is around to enjoy their posthumous fame. They're ungrateful? No, it's ungrateful to expect more than the pleasure of knowing why you did what you did. Do it with a smile. Be the beautiful person who just goes through the world doing their job, doing good, never expecting or asking for anything. Think of the good Dorland could have done had she just moved on to the next good deed. Instead of trying, in vain, it turns out, to earn an acquaintance's approval. Imagine if she had spent the energy convincing even more people to donate their kidneys to keep the chain going.

12:51Wouldn't that have shut Larson up? Wouldn't that have been the ultimate refutation of anyone's cynicism and doubt? But anyways, that was her call. Let's just focus on doing the good we can do. Let's forget about credit. Let's forget about gratitude. We don't need anyone to appreciate us to recognize us. We do good because we are good, and everything else is extra.

13:19Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.

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