The First Person to Say NO to Ryan Holiday’s Book Recommendations

0:00I'm recording this on a Monday, and Monday is our grocery store day in our family. I usually pick my kids up from school and we go over to Whole Foods, get all our groceries for the week. Although here very shortly, we're going to go over there to get our Thanksgiving turkey because they've got a bunch of great options. Turkeys start at$1.49 a pound if you have Prime with organic birds at$2.99 a pound. And they only carry no antibiotic ever turkeys that will bring quality to your table at a great price. Whole Foods has great everyday prices on all your Thanksgiving essentials, whether you celebrate with a massive family or just a few close friends.

0:37Everything they sell has high standards to help you shop with confidence. Enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market. Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed? Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler? Sleep Number does that. Cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your Sleep Number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's the final days of our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only$17.99 for our C2 mattress and bays, plus free premium delivery.

1:11Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com today.

1:20Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

1:58My wife and I own a small indie bookstore outside Austin, Texas. And not too long ago, the comedian Pete Holmes was in town to do a gig, and he stopped by. We talked books, and these are the books that he left with.

2:14What are you reading these days? Well, I'm a grouper. Rupert. And let them on a book. You don't have that. You should. I don't know why I'm down. It was one of those times where you just see the title and you're like, I think I get it. And then it turns out you get it. I mean, I think that's very much to us. Isn't it just like, why are you trying to change or control something that's not yours? Totally. Which is like basically what all of life is about. Most of us, most of the time. Yeah. I've been doing it. Yeah, of course. Just let them, just let it. Well, I thought the premise of that book, the story, she's like, you know, my friends are on vacation and they didn't invite me.

2:51I'm going to let that. It's like, yeah. I mean, the absurdity of the things that we won't let people do is like, it's embarrassing. It is. If, yeah, it's embarrassing what we try to prevent other people from doing. What do you mean other people are having fun with happening? That's not allowed. Totally. It's nuts. Have you read this? This looks funny. This guy's a... Where's your boss? This is the parenting section. This is parenting, but it's a book about having kids from a philosopher. And the funny story, which sounds like one of those ones that a comedian would tell, but you know isn't exactly true.

3:32But his son is like, I need a philosopher. I need a philosopher. And he's like screaming for his dad. His dad brushes in. He's like, I've trained for this moment. And his kid wanted one of those flossing sticks. That's the, like, it's like you had to know that he didn't mean a philosopher. Yes, but I do love it. That's in this book? Yeah. It's funny. I'll give a lot of commentary on it. I don't like this cover design. Why not? So much that I won't buy it. Well, you're not allowed to buy them. Oh, really? But what do you hate about the cover? Well, these are Calvin and Hobbes ripoffs, which happens so much on it.

4:10I don't like the joke. Is this title about us? I think so. It immediately makes me not trust this author. Okay. No offense, God. But I'm like, you made me read this, and I felt nothing. well also I'm just realizing I'm on the cover are you? you like it? no no no I mean I do like the book I'm sure the book you like the concept of the books are only books that we like but I interviewed this guy when this book came out and I must have said this but I didn't know I was on the cover blurb it how many books have you blurb that you haven't read? me and 20 so the best thing is just to have a policy of not blurbing books just say like sorry Sorry, I don't blur books.

4:52Have you read this? This is good. This is up your alley. Yeah. Oh, the parents' Tao Te Ching. This is sort of like, it's loosely based in their thing. Yep. You're going to uncover, do you want to hear a bias I have? I'm like, everything is not as good as just reading the Tao Te Ching. Well, of course. Of course. But you can do that and then also read this. Yeah, that's true. I also, what? Oh, I need my phone because most of my books are audiobooks. I do have some. You only do audiobooks? Well, I drive a lot. Right. Oh, yeah, the Ojai Drive. Yeah, the Ojai Drive. So I rip through a lot of books that way.

5:32Let's see how many books I can give you that you immediately put back and are not interested in. I wouldn't read this. It's impressive. I wouldn't read this. I wouldn't even pretend to read that. But I'm, you know. That's amazing. It's sort of like picking a bottle of wine. Have you read Good Inside? Yeah. Do you like Dr. Becky? I love Dr. Becky Kennedy. Dr. Becky is amazing. Yeah. But I would get that on audio. For me to want to read a book, a book, it would have to not, like I would read Good Inside to learn something. Yeah. And I'm like, I might as well just, as opposed to like an experienced book.

6:07Yeah, yeah, sure. Have you read Outdoor Kids and an Inside World? No. That's good. That might be up your alley. I don't know why, but I immediately, I'm not into it. Is this a cover reaction? I don't like the title. What? You would disagree with the idea of having an outdoor kid? I don't like it. Okay.

6:29You know what? I read this. That's good. It's a good book. Tribe is very good. Did you recommend Tribe to me? Maybe. His book about dying is very good. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, this one. Yes. Very good. He's just, he's hanging out with his wife one day. He doesn't feel well. He goes to the hospital. He, like, just an artery burst inside his body, and he bled almost out entirely, just for no reason, just could have died, has a near-death experience in the hospital. Like of what kind? Like it floating outside. Like the real time. And so the book is an exploration of, one, how quickly you can die, but also how the interesting, that's a point that other people made, but how similar the near-death experiences are for people that they all often describe very similar things.

7:15And so it's more mystical than you would expect from someone like Sebastian. It's very good. Okay. I would be into that. All right. Take that one. Let's see if I can get, how hard do I have to work to get into it? I also like the sides. Yes. This is not an ego trip. This is a guy that goes, like your books. Your books are nice. You want to be able to finish it on a flight or a couple of drives? This is smaller than yours. Yes. It's like a hundred pages. I also, I do love Milky Glad. Yes. Yes. But I don't want to just grab an author. Uh, well, what, now I have to work hard. Uh, you might be... You ever had anyone put them back?

7:54Usually they just huger me.

8:05I don't even know about memoir. You don't like memoirs? I think you would like a gift from the sea. It seems very upper style. This is sort of riff on stillness and quiet. Okay, it's an older woman. That makes me more interested. Yes, the book's from the 50s, 60s. I like this paper. Yes, it's a beautiful little book. I think you would like that one.

8:39It's not telling me anything about it. Well just read it. I see how this is done.

8:53What books do you read to your daughter? She wears your kid stuff. Hey Mike. Now we're in the... oh you know what? What? It's very similar to a book she loves but it's not. What book is it? There's these fake anthologies about dragons and unicorns. This one's dragonology. It's not that one though, so I guess it's not a good idea. Yeah, like this one, they have little pockets in them and stuff, like treasures and things. These books are popular. Yeah, like my kids love these. This is, that's a little too much, I think, for my daughter. A lot of words. Maybe for me is what I mean. Oh, when I open a kids book and there's like a paragraph on the page, I go, nope.

9:42You know what I'm writing? There should be one sentence. Uh, no. What is it about? Okay, this is a kids book. I think I told you. That is amazing. I hope I tried to ban in Texas. I need a new butt. Yeah, because it has a crack in it. It's amazing. It's fantastic. I should ask that kid. Yeah, no, this is right at my daughter, Daly. What's the kids book? What is this? Why is there a fake? Oh, does it make sounds? I don't know. This is like a... Oh, it makes me sound. Does it? I don't know. I told you about my kid's book. It's called Spells to Cast on Your Parents. Oh, yes. Because you were the one that was like...

10:24You had incredibly things to say about. I'm doing the other work. You're just doing it, right? Or did you sell it? I sold it and I'm doing it. When I did kid's books, I was like, you know what? I don't need a book deal on a deadline to write 800 words. Let me just sketch it out and then figure out what I want it to be, and then I'll figure out what the best path to do. I ended up self-publishing these two just because I wanted it to be longer or something. I see. So I was like, you know what? I'll just do it myself. Yeah, I think the art of the kid's book, because I read kid's books every single day,

11:04is underappreciated. Because there are some ones that are absolute dog shit. Maybe we talked about this. I love the ones that are like, and I'm not this anti-woke person, but they're just trying to shoehorn a horribly dark historic event into a kid's book that they don't need to read about. We have those. Yeah. Absolutely. We don't need this. No. It's rough. Yeah. What are we doing? Oh, my daughter loves Mr. Turtles. specific iteration of Ninja Turtles, but I think she's level one on this. Yeah, we have these, but like for her. Have you seen the Minecraft movie? No. It's great. Amazing. What? Yeah.

11:45No way. We're going to watch, I mean, my oldest is eight, but like we're going to watch the Nacho Libre. Nacho Libre is great. Napoleon Dynamite is great. We just watched Napoleon Dynamite. It's that, but with the IP of Minecraft. I mean, like they wear a lot of the same clothes. Like it's ridiculous. this like is it the same director yes it's the director oh okay so and and then obviously it's jack black didn't get anything funny and so it's actually like yeah i mean i i would say no one laughed harder in the theater than in our family and like it was almost like in there like it was amazing i thought it was incredible oh that's so cool i'm happy to hear that that's very good uh oh i lived you're probably not into Minecraft yet are you no i i also thought that was like a you're really not supposed to let them play mine.

12:26That's Roblox. Roblox. Minecraft is like very low-key. These guys, I think about these guys a lot. I know Adam. How'd they do that? Dragons of Tacos. Yeah, but like what's the difference between a bad idea and a good idea? Yeah, I think that's... I also have issues with Grumpy Monkey. I'm not great at Grumpy Monkey. I'm not mad at it, but the lead's name is Jim Panzey, which is great. Yes. But then every other animal isn't, they don't even try to make it. Oh, they don't continue that? Yeah. Oh. Come on. I can't think of any, but I have one. While I was reading it to Lila, I was like, his name should be this.

13:07And she's six. And she's like, yeah, don't set up a gimmick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But other than that, I like this. Great. Have you actually done Curious George? No. BJ Novak was like, no, no, you got to get the actual full Curious George which it's like amazing. Really? Yeah, and all you can do is it actually is incredible. But look, I love this sentence. Because with the hook on the string and the string on the stick and the cake in the box in his hand, George went back to the lake. That's great. I just like, That's great. No, this one, this is all the actual, there's one where he goes to space.

13:43It's actually - That is excellent. Do this.

13:50I love this, thank you. So you're only willing to accept children's books, apparently. You won't. We don't. You know, we don't. We just read Where the Sidewalk Is. We've read it many times. Do you recommend this one or this one? I don't know. I'm not a J.L. Sofistian person. I mean, I don't dislike them or anything, but... Are you guys into Bluey? We love Bluey. Something's got to go back. My carry-on doesn't have space. We can mail them to you if you want. Oh, really? All right.

14:27Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation. location getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

15:13We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course. Because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you.

15:52Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

16:05You want me to have one backpack? One backpack.

16:12Hi, what a pleasure to be here. The kids picked out some books for your child, but I don't know if it's those books. I don't know if it's fine with my children to tell you. Okay, let's do that. I would love to meet them too. I don't know anything. It's one of those situations where I was like, here's my phone. Fun. How's it going? Well, what a great story. I'm doing really well. Thank you. really well. Yeah, I love it. Books by the Foot. Did he tell you about Books by the Foot? Yeah. I get really distracted in podcast studio because I am cataloging the titles. I found myself reading the titles.

16:52I'm following the conversation, but I'm a little distracted with it. And there's an L. Ron Hubbard right by Ryan's eyes. Right by his eyes. You know this? Yes. There's two in there. Yeah, but there's one like, is it to say like... Yeah, it's actually, this is like a sneaky sign. Just so you know, any second. It's your gateway. I sort of felt that coming. Yeah, there's a lot of books that feel like it's calling me out, like Driven to Distraction, like Your Brain on ADHD or whatever. And I'm just like, I don't need to be attacked while I'm... I saw The Ab Diet. Yeah, a lot of abs. There's like a dad bod diet.

17:29Do Hard Things stood out. And Ryan's books. I kept seeing Ryan's books. I'm glad that that... Sounds right. And that's not the entertainment way. I should be paying attention to what I'm saying. I'm going to be back to climate change. Oh, here's the Robin Inception. No, anytime. That's what we're doing. Oh, and we have two wheels. Oh, wow. Flins or fun? I always want to make a sequel to this. Outlive, and then what? And then. Peter. When you've won, and you're 93 and doing squats. Well, who cares? I actually really like Peter. I do too. Hilarious. But I do think it's funny that like that Brian Johnson guy, the other one who's like obsessed with living forever.

18:13The one that looks like a vampire. I don't know him. Oh, it's like the people who are obsessed with living forever don't seem to be living lives worth prolonging that much. Which is true Marcus Aurelius joke. Yes. So there's enough. You're afraid of dying and not being able to do this and he's jumping on a box. There's Seneca has a similar joke where he's talking about this criminal who's set to be executed. And the emperor walks by, one of the more cruel emperors. And he's like, please don't kill me, don't kill me. And the emperor goes, oh, you're really alive, are you? Wow. And how many people's lives are some version of basically already dead?

18:53Yeah. Well, that's kind of the joke I'm making there, or I'm trying to make. Because I keep living so you can keep checking your O2 levels or whatever. I do, though, believe that he enjoys that. Hey, guys. But to your point, with this book, your death happens now. Yes. That's the disturbing thing. Yes. Whether you're 99 or 29. Yeah. It's happening in the present. Well, Seneca's other point is that. He says, like, it's wrong to think of death as something in the future. Yeah. He says the time that passes belongs to death. The time what? That passes belongs to death. So we wrongly think of death as this conclusive event, as opposed to death being every second that's passed.

19:39So like a 90-year-old, you die at 90. You've died 90 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? For 90 years, you trailed like a star. Yes, and because you can't go backwards, that time is dead. And so thinking about the passage of time as this kind of living death, It's supposed to create a sense of urgency. Well, that's useful. What I'm saying is less useful. It's like when you die, it'll be the only thing that's happening. Yes, that also true. That's why we like movies, because movies depersonalize it, and you see someone dying. Yeah. And we think we'll see ourselves dying. Yes. But you won't.

20:12It'll be subjective, like The Sopranos, which is the most unsatisfying ending to a show ever. Are these your boys? Yes, yes. Hey, dudes. You guys got all your Easter clothes on. That was a fancy upgrade. Do you want to... They picked our books for your shot. Ooh, let's see what if they'll... This one? His daughter's name is Leela. They picked out some books for your daughter. One? What's that dragon book we're listening to in the car? Dragon Girls. Dragon Girls. Yes. Seems good. So good. What's this one? There's other one of them.

20:52Dad! Those are for you or you probably. The bakery dragon. That one's good, actually. My daughter loves dragons. Oh, we actually have this one. Do you have 100 dragons named Brockwood? That was the other one that they were trying to do. I think we have the bakery dragon. I know I've read it. But you have 100 dragons named Brockwood. We don't have that one right now, but that's the other one that they really want to be sure. Oh, this is Jones. Pick this one. Oh, thanks. I'm going to take this one, too, because I think we read it in a store. And didn't buy it. You can't do that. Everyone can. This is not a library.

21:30This is a library. If she likes dragons and she doesn't have a hundred dragons named Broccoli, they also wanted to give her that one, but we don't have it to the price. Oh, okay. Thank you. It's a good one. Appreciate it. The book I'm making has a dragon. Really? Gotta have a dragon. Of course. Has a small black dragon named Jessie. Is there a pun in the name or no? His name is Jesse Or I should say You said Jim Chimpanzee or whatever No, but I don't establish games And not follow through Right, right But I would say that it fiercely follows the rule of If you set something up You can continue with it Yes There's not Look, Grumpy Monkey Wish you all the success in the world In fact, you're doing just fine Without me wishing you success both.

22:18And I think the art is fabulous. The plot holes. I just, you know, I guarantee if I met that author, I would be like, did you try? And they would say yes. And we couldn't think of one for the gorilla. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. But there are ones for like giraffe or. So, so some of it has it and some don't. Just one has it and none of the others do. That is, that is annoying. Yeah. I don't like that. Yeah. I don't want that. All right, let's do this. I I read a lot. It's sort of my job. You can't write without reading. For almost 15 years now, once a month, I send out an email with my favorite book recommendations for that month.

22:54Books that I've been reading, books that I've been going through, books that changed my life, that inspired me, that I can connect to what's happening in the world. And you could sign up right now at ryanholiday.net slash reading list.

23:09look ads are annoying they are to be avoided if at all possible i understand as a content creator why they need to exist that's why i don't begrudge them when they appear on the shows that i listen to but again as a person who has to pay a podcast producer and has to pay for equipment and for the studio, in the building that the studio is in, it's a lot to keep something like The Daily Stoic going. So if you want to support a show but not listen to ads, well, we have partnered with Supercast to bring you a ad-free version of Daily Stoic. We're calling it Daily Stoic Premium. And with Premium, you can listen to every episode of The Daily Stoic Podcast completely ad-free, no interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for.

24:03And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're going to have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you want to remove distractions, go deeper into Stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium, and we are offering a limited time discount of 20 % off your first year. Just go to dailystoic.com slash premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.