The Hobby That Changed Ryan Holiday's Life

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1:05Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

1:44Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another Sunday episode of The Daily Stoepackets. You hear me talking about travel on the show pretty often because it's a part of my life. I'm on the road quite a bit. I limit it now that I have kids. I try to limit how long I'm gone so I don't get to be as adventurous as I used to be. I don't get the full experiences of the places that I go. I don't travel the way other people do, right? Some people travel for food. Some travel for nightlife. They travel for work. They travel to get away. I would say I travel for the swimming. I mean, that's not really why I travel.

2:21You know, I'm on the road because I'm giving a talk or I have a meeting or, you know, I'm visiting family or something. But if I'm on the road, one of the things I'm going to do there is I'm going to look for somewhere to swim. If you saw me on the Stillness is the key book tour, thank you for coming out. But the little secret, the double benefit of that is that I had planned the whole tour around swimming in cool athletic club pools. On that tour, which is in 2019, I swam at the Olympic Club Pool in San Francisco, the Washington Athletic Club in Seattle, the basement pool, the university club in DC.

2:54It's not my favorite pool there. I like the William H. Rumsey Natatorium a little better. The New York Athletic Club, which overlooks Central Park, the Denver Athletic Club too. By the way, if my voice is a little whatever, I apologize. I'm 25 pages left in the audio book for the 10-year anniversary of The Obstacle's Way. I'll tell you more about that probably next week, but my voice is a little worn down. But I actually once accepted an offer from my Dutch publisher to speak in Amsterdam. I said, but you got to show me a good time. And to that, I didn't mean the nightlife or the brothels of Amsterdam.

3:31I meant that they had to find me a really cool swimming pool, which they did. the tour that i'm doing in toronto and vancouver and dublin and rotterdam that's less than two months that's in november you can still get tickets by the way ryan holiday.net slash tour the main thing i'm thinking about is like which hotel am i going to stay at how close is it to a pool uh what's the coolest place i've done hamstead heath in london i'm excited to maybe do that again although it might be too cold i'm a little worried about that um hit me up with their swimming recommendations, by the way, or just come to the talks.

4:04You can tell me after ryanholiday.net slash tour. We're going to do some Q &As beforehand. The person I guess I have to blame for all this, though, is Robert Green. He and I were just talking on the phone yesterday or day before yesterday. I was reminding him that he got me hooked on swimming in 2007. I grew up on swim teams, but I'd fallen out of the habit in favor of running. But when I started working in downtown LA, I moved to 6th and Spring, like an old building they'd converted. And he's like, oh man, if you're living downtown, you got to join the Los Angeles Athletic Club, which I'd never heard of.

4:35But he said it has one of the greatest swimming pools in the country. And it's actually one of the oldest athletic clubs in the country. It's created in 1888. This pool they built in 1912 is an engineering marvel. It's eight feet deep. It's six stories off the streets below. You're looking into windows of other tall buildings as you're swimming. And it has this enormous glass atrium. You've seen it in a million movies. The last thing I saw it in was that show Goliath on Amazon. But he said the real secret was the reciprocal benefits. Like I'll never in my life be able to afford or be invited to join the New York Athletic Club.

5:10But for like a hundred bucks a month, my membership to the Los Angeles Athletic Club got me in the door. As Robert reminded me though, it's the back door. They make the regular people go through this like hidden entrance. You don't interact with any of the other regular members in their fancy lobby. But the thing that Robert got me most excited about back then was the rock pools in Sydney. He told me, these are bucket list level good. So when I was just there for the talks that I've been running as part of the Thursday episodes, and thanks to everyone who came out for those, I accepted a gig in Australia because I wanted to go in those pools.

5:41And I went back. And part of the reason I was excited about this tour and to bring my family is I wanted to take my kids to them. And it was awesome. I did Icebergs and Bronte and Clovelly, although Bronte was closed this time. but I made up for it because I got to go into South Curl and North Curl, Manly. I swam at the Cook and Phillip Park in downtown, the Melbourne Public Baths when I was in Melbourne. I've spent hundreds of thousands of miles on the road over the years. And I got some favorites, I'll tell you. Hampstead Heath, like I was saying, Balmory. There's this one in Helsinki that I went to.

6:15I've done two talks in Helsinki. And I remember I looked up a cool swimming pool. I get there and they go, just so you know, you have to swim naked. And it's true. It's women on some days, men on some days, but you have to swim naked. The Biltmore in downtown LA is another one. Reminds me of what the swimming pool in the Titanic look like. There's Gellert in Budapest, which is this cool bath to think. It draws from the same springs as Marcus Aurelius. Sydney's Olympic pool, Bada Shift, which is a pool that floats in the river that goes through Berlin. The saltwater pool at the New Orleans Athletic Club.

6:48I wrote a good chunk of, trust me, I'm lying, and obstacles away in that pool. The Venetian pool in Coral Gables is amazing. Texas, I love swimming. The rice plants that flow in the San Marcos River, Slide Rock in Sedona, Lake Tahoe, the Blue Hole in New Mexico, Jacob's Well. I've swum in streams and oceans and bays and hotel pools and public parks. Okay, this isn't an ad for all those places. Like, what's so special about swimming? Well, look, it's low impact, whole body exercise. It's good for you to be active. To me, that's the bonus. What I love about swimming is it's one of the few places on earth where screens can't reach you.

7:26People talk to me about like headphones you can listen to underwater. Big, big hard pass for me. I like that my phone doesn't ring there. My eyes can't wander to the big TV that's playing CNN on the gym. My eyes can't wander at all. They're locked to the bottom of the pool or the pond, prisoner of the black line, to paraphrase Joni Mitchell. It's just the rhythm of the kick and the stroke and the breath over and over and over again. It's like a meditation to me. I don't remember if it was the 24-hour fitness off I-35 and 35th Street, or if it was the YMCA off Town Lake in Austin, but someone came up to me once and they were reading Ego's the Enemy.

8:04And I laughed and I was like, thanks, but you know I wrote that book in this pool. And they were surprised, but it's true. When I run and when I'm in the water, words just pop in your head and it always kind of surprises you. You stop writing. You go do this very opposite that are a different thing than writing. And ideas just kind of come to you. I've had to get better at like not losing the thread, not losing the thing I thought of while I was, you know, exercising. I love when I lose count of how many laps I'm on because it means I really did get locked in. And I go, oh, I guess I have to swim some more.

8:38That's not the only problem I've solved in the pool. I've had investment ideas. I've planned difficult conversations. I've gotten over grudges. I've calmed down. I've gotten much needed space.

8:54Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Baskerville County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove in Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation. getting me to and from my house, it unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

9:39We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course. Because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you.

10:18Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

10:30I remember when I woke up one morning in Los Angeles, I was staying at the athletic club on tour for Stillness is the Key. and it was the day I was supposed to find out whether I'd hit the bestseller list or not. And I was expecting that I probably wouldn't. My alarm went off on my phone. I grab it. I go to turn it off and I could see there's a bunch of texts. And I knew they'd be congratulations or condolences. But instead of checking, I took the elevator down to the sixth floor and I swam. It was just another ordinary rewarding swim. And I came back to the room and I found out that I'd hit not just the New York Times bestseller list for the first time, but I debuted at number one.

11:11And that was great. But I was actually like more proud of that little act of discipline that had preceded it, that I ignored the phone, that I went to the stillness, that I had that experience, because I also knew that if I hadn't hit the list, I'd have been glad for that wonderful morning swim all the same, that I hadn't ruined it. It's fitting too, I think, because I wrote in stillness that there are a few better ways to settle yourself in the present moment, to wash away the distractions and the noise and the trouble of everyday life rather through being around water, natural water. There's just something about it.

11:44The sight of it contrasted against the environment you're in, the sound of it, the feel of it closing in around you as you take the plunge. Sometimes I think that half the victory of swimming is just that, that jump or the dive in. The payoff's obviously different depending on the season. In the summer, Barton Springs and Austin is a welcome relief against the heat. One winter, I guess it would be 2015, Robert and I went swimming in Barton Springs while it was literally snowing. This is the day I got married. That was a different reward, a different sensation. But the aliveness sort of creeps back into your body as you shiver to get warm.

12:22You're invigorated by doing something crazy. Seneca had that habit every year. He would plunge into the Tiber River to kick things off. He said he was a cold water enthusiast and that he celebrated each new year by taking a plunge into the canal. Obviously, he didn't know about Wim Hof or the science that surrounds, you know, cold plunges and cold water. He wasn't on a swim team. He wasn't literally cleaning himself, but he was starting the new year clean. Even better, he was challenging himself. And water plays a big role in Marcus Reelus' life too. He liked to spend time in bathhouses, as Romans did.

12:59He said he washed off the dust of earthly life. And I mentioned that pool in Budapest. That is the cool thing. Like Marcus really spent time there at the Roman camp of Aquincum. That water coming up from whatever that natural spring is, is the water that Marcus knew. The same thermal pools. There's this great book called Why We Swim by Bonnie Toy. She talks about like why humans swim, what our attraction to water is. She came on the Daily Silk podcast when we were just getting started. And she said something that really struck me. I think I asked her what stands out to her as a lifelong swimmer and water enthusiast.

13:38Everyone knows that feeling of plunging in, of jumping in and just feeling that feeling. And I think that's the feeling that we're after. It's that washing away of just for that moment and beyond. You know, if you really get after it, that it feels like it wipes the slate clean. I love that element of it. It really does feel like you've left behind whatever it was that was preoccupying you when you got in. There is the fear element. And to know how to swim or actually to not know how to swim is to be constantly reminded of your mortality in water. And then once you do know how to swim, you're still reminded of it because you understand the precariousness or this porousness, you know, between those states.

14:37And I think that, again, part of the daily practice, part of the daily ritual for me, not so much in a pool, of course, because of the, you know, that it is this circumscribed known place that's safe. But to be in open water, to be swimming in open water or to be surfing for me is like this constant awareness in the ocean that the ocean is hazardous. Constantly renewing hazards and risk and me having to conquer fear to do that thing. I think that is so useful. I think about that a lot lately. Swimmers, no matter how regular their practice is, have that meditative quality. It is that cleansing, immersive property that we talked about.

15:24And it's all of those things. And it feels really good. It feels really good in a way that's different from land-based exercise. So for all those reasons, swimming has been a predominantly solitary practice for my life. But as I've gotten older, now that I have kids, it's something we do together. I'm going to leave to pick up my son from school in a little bit. Barton Springs is closed right now. There's some pipe problem, so I'm probably going to take him to Deep Eddy. I know I'll get excited about that. Hey, buddy, you want to go to Deep Eddy? And I know he's going to say yes. In the last couple of months, we've done the Blue Hole in Georgetown, Land of Park in New Braunfels.

15:57We did Barton Springs. Krause Springs was cool. You know, sometimes the kids are hesitant to jump in or they're intimidated by a rope swing or a diving board. The same goes for us as a parent. And only the night before we were like, you know, how would the day go? Will it be a disaster? Isn't there a bunch to pack up? I'm thinking about that now, you know. Oh, but is it going to push dinner later? Is it going to be grouchy? Is it going to blow up my face? Same thing. I want to plan a road trip. I want to get them back out to Balmore. They were excited about that. But it's a lot, you know. It's a lot.

16:28It could go poorly. But after we do it, after we work up the courage and do it, you're always glad that you do. And I guess that's the message of today's podcast. That's the real message of this thing. First off, to pay forward what Robert Green gave to me all those years ago, it's made my life better. And I think it will make yours better too. And to tell you how excited I am to see some of you folks in London, Dublin, Rotterdam, Vancouver, Toronto, just booked all the travel. So grab those tickets, ryanholiday.net slash tour. If you are in Texas, you got to check out some of those swimming holes.

17:02We have a book in the bookstore called like the swimming holes of Texas that I like. just next time you go to a place just just google you know like natural swimming hole swimming hole whatever it's a great habit to pick up what ask people what what's the coolest place to swim where you're going and then make the time to do it when i interviewed matt quinn of mount joy on the podcast yesterday and he was saying he likes to go for run in every city and and he's on tour right now with his band i think they're playing the moody center tonight um and i said but you got to add swimming, like seek out swimming, because there's something about you have to plan getting to the swimming pool, especially if it's a natural one more than you do running, running, you just put on your shoes and you step outside, planning the swimming component of the trips.

17:44It's just enriched my traveling experiences, enriched my life. And I hope it enriches yours.

17:56Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, That would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it. And I'll see you next episode.

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