The Life of Cleanthes

0:00My family owns a 2023 Toyota 4Runner and honestly it's my favorite vehicle I've ever owned. Around town, it's smooth and reliable, but where it really shines is on our trips into the backcountry. We've taken it on backpacking adventures to Colorado and New Mexico, loaded it up with gear, and never had to think twice about whether it could handle the terrain. That's what Toyota Trucks are built for. Off-road confidence, rugged durability, and the freedom to explore. Toyota has a long history with the outdoor community, and they're committed to helping more people get out there and experience what nature has to offer.

0:29From remote trails to scenic byways, Toyota Trucks empowers you to take the detour, roam freely, and discover places that still feel wild and untouched. And they're not just making great trucks, they're working to expand access to adventure so more people can connect with the outdoors and pass that passion on to the next generation. Discover your uncharted territory. Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. That's toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours. You hear that? That's not just a Toyota truck. That's the sound of no crowds. No alerts. No distractions.

1:11And no telling what you'll find next. You know, like a detour. So why would you ever take a tour when you could take a detour? Toyota trucks.

1:30Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic Podcast. On Sundays, we take a deeper dive into these ancient topics with excerpts from the Stoic texts, audiobooks that we like here or recommend here at Daily Stoic, and other long-form wisdom that you can chew on on this relaxing weekend. We hope this helps shape your understanding of this philosophy, and most importantly, that you're able to apply it to your actual life. Thank you for listening.

2:09Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another weekend episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. We brought you the life of Zeno recently, who obviously I talk a lot about here on the podcast. We talk about him quite a bit in Lives of the Stoics. I actually think Cleanthes is more interesting. He's not just a philosopher. He's a boxer. He was a water carrier, like he watered, basically a gardener, manual laborer, a real humble sort of salt of the earth kind of dude. In Lives of the Stoics, I present him as the apostle, Zeno being the prophet. it. In a way, the apostle is a harder, humbler, much less glamorous role, but as Zeno would have had to admit, one without which the prophet's work would never find an audience.

3:05In today's episode, I'm going to bring you Diogenes Laertes' biography of Cleanthes, and I'll let you listen to that. We had this excerpt read by Michael Reed, who does a great job. And then if you want to dig in more on Cleanthes, check out Lives of the Stoics and enjoy.

3:46plus powerful AI features that help you do it all with ease, from editing images to drafting emails to summarizing large documents to multitasking, so you can organize your holiday shopping and make custom holiday decor and search for great holiday deals and respond to holiday requests and customer questions and customers requesting custom things and plan the perfect holiday dinner for vegans, vegetarians, pescatarians, and Uncle Mike's carnivore diet. Luckily, you can get a PC that helps you do it all faster, so you can get it all done. That's the power of a Dell PC with Intel inside. Backed by Dell's price match guarantee.

4:24Get yours before the holidays at dell.com slash deals. Terms and conditions apply. See dell.com for details.

4:39Cleanthes was a native of Assos and the son of Phonius. He was originally a boxer, as we learn from Antisthenes, in his successions. And he came to Athens having but four drachmas, as some people say, and attaching himself to Xenon, he devoted himself to philosophy in a most noble manner, and he adhered to the same doctrines as his master. He was especially eminent for this industry, so that as he was a very poor man, he was forced to undertake mercenary employments, and he used to draw water in the gardens by night, and by day, he used to exercise himself in philosophical discussions, on which account he was called Freanteles, from Freer, a well, and Anteleo to draw water.

5:29They also say that he was on one occasion brought before a court of justice To be compelled to give an account what his sources of income were From which he maintained himself in such good condition And that then he was acquitted Having produced as his witness the gardener in whose garden he drew the water And a woman who was a meal seller In whose establishment he used to prepare the meal And the judges of Areopagus admired him and voted that ten menae should be given to him, but Xenon forbade him to accept them. They also say that Antigonus presented him three thousand drachmas, and once, when he was conducting some young men to some spectacle, it happened that the wind blew away his cloak, and it was then seen that he had nothing on under it, on which he was greatly applauded by the Athenians, according to the account given by Demetrius the Magnesian in his essay on people of the same name, and he was greatly admired by them on account of his circumstance.

6:35They also say that Antigonus, who was a pupil of his, once asked him why he drew water, and that he made answer, Do I do nothing beyond drawing water? Do I not also dig, and do I not water the land, and do all sorts of things for the sake of philosophy. For Zenon used to accustom him to this and used to require him to bring him an obel by way of tribute. And once he brought one of the pieces of money which he had collected in this way into the middle of a company of his acquaintances and said, Cleanthes could maintain even another Cleanthes if he were to choose. But others who have plenty of means to support themselves seek for necessaries from others, although they only study philosophy in a very lazy manner.

7:26And, in reference to these habits of his, Cleanthes was called a second Heracles. He was then very industrious, but he was not well endowed by nature, and was very slow in his intellect, on which account Timon says of him, What stately ram thus measures o 'er the ground, and master of the flock surveys them round. What citizen of Assos, dull and cold, fond of long words, a mouthpiece but not bold? And when he was ridiculed by his fellow pupils, he used to bear it patiently. He did not even object to the name when he was called an ass, but only said that he was the only animal able to bear the burdens which Xenon put upon him.

8:17And once, when he was reproached as a coward, he said, That is the reason why I make but few mistakes. He used to say, in justification of his preference of his own way of life to that of the rich, that while they were playing at ball, he was earning money by digging hard and bearing ground. And he very often used to blame himself. And once, Ariston heard him doing so, and said, Who is it that you are reproaching? And he replied, An old man who has gray hair, but no brains. When someone once said to him that Arsicelaus did not do what he ought, Desist, he replied, and do not blame him, for if he destroys duty as far as his words go, at all events he establishes it by his actions.

9:11Arsicelaus once said of him, I never listen to flatterers. Yes, rejoined Cleanthes, I flatter you when I say that though you say one thing, you do another. When someone once asked him what lesson he ought to inculcate on his son, he replied, the warning of Electra, silence, silence, gently step. When Alacedaemonian once said in his hearing that labor was a good thing, he was delighted and addressed him, O early worth, a soul so wise and young, proclaims that you from noble blood are sprung. Hecaton tells us in his apothemes that once when a young man said, if a man who beats his stomach, gastrozi, then a man who slaps his thigh, mirazai, he replied, do you stick to your diomera's eye, but analogous words do not always indicate analogous facts.

10:11Once, when he was conversing with a youth, he asked him if he felt, and as he said that he did, why is it then, said Cleanthes, that I do not feel that you feel?

10:27Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County. I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

11:12We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course, because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism, too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you, discover your uncharted territory.

11:53Learn more at toyota.com slash trucks slash adventure dash detours.

12:23abused him in this manner, he answered him gently, saying that it would be a preposterous thing for Dionysus and Heracles to bear being ridiculed by the poets without any expression of anger, and for him to be indignant at any chance attack. He used also to say that the peripatetics were in the same condition as liars, which though they utter sweet notes, do not hear themselves. And it is said that when he asserted that, on the principles of Zenon, one could judge of a man's character by his looks, some witty young men brought him a profligate fellow, having a hearty look with continual exercise in the fields, and requested him to tell them his moral character.

13:09And he, having hesitated a little, bade the man depart, and as he departed, the man sneezed, I have the fellow now, said Cleanthes. He is a debauchee. He said once to a man who was conversing with him by himself, You are not talking to a bad man. And when someone reproached him with his old age, he rejoined. I too wish to depart, but when I perceive myself to be in good health in every respect and to be able to recite and read, I am content to remain. They say, too, that he used to write down all that he heard from Zenon on oyster shells and on the shoulder blades of oxen from want of money to buy paper with.

13:57And though he was of this character, and in such circumstances, he became so eminent that though Zenon had many other disciples of high reputation, he succeeded him as the president of his school. He died in the following manner. His gums swelled very much, and at the command of his physicians, he abstained from food for two days, and he got so well that his physicians allowed him to return to all his former habits. But he refused, and saying that he had now already gone part of the way, he abstained from food for the future, and so died. being as some report 80 years old and having been a pupil of Xena 19 years and we have written a playful epigram on him also which runs thus I praise Cleanthes but praise Hades more who could not bear to see him grown so old so gave him rest at last among the dead who had drawn such loads of water while alive.

15:13Thanks for listening to the Daily Stoic podcast. Just a reminder, we've got signed copies of all my books in the Daily Stoic store. You can get them personalized. You can get them sent to a friend. The obstacle is the way. You go as the enemy. Stillness is the key. The leather-bound edition of the Daily Stoic. We have them all in the Daily Stoic store, which you can check out at store.dailystoic.com.

15:50Look, ads are annoying. They are to be avoided, if at all possible. I understand as a content creator why they need to exist. That's why I don't begrudge them when they appear on the shows that I listen to. But again, as a person who has to pay a podcast producer and has to pay for equipment and for the studio and the building that the studio is in, it's a lot to keep something like the Daily Stoic going. So if you want to support a show but not listen to ads, well, we have partnered with Supercast to bring you a ad free version of Daily Stoic. We're calling it Daily Stoic Premium. And with Premium, you can listen to every episode of the Daily Stoic podcast completely ad free, no interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for.

16:44And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're going to have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you want to remove distractions, go deeper into stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium, and we are offering a limited time discount of 20 % off your first year. Just go to dailystoic.com slash premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.