The Truth About Banned Books (And Why It Matters)

0:00Ryan Holiday: We were looking to spruce up our front porch. The weather's finally getting better. We wanted to spend some time hanging out outside with the kids. So we got these awesome hammocks and we actually got them from today's sponsor, Wayfair. If you drove by our house, you'd see us out there with our kids reading. We've got this new kitten all hanging out in the hammocks. It's been awesome. and that's because on Wayfair you'll find quality materials that stand up to real life. They sell furniture and decor that's built to last and when you shop with Wayfair Verified it's your shortcut to durable pieces that are hand vetted by product specialists using their 10-point quality inspection.

0:33Ryan Holiday: They've got thousands of products at every style and budget whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom this holiday season. Wayfair's got great reviews as well, so you can find more than 20 million verified five-star reviews from real shoppers. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase. Head over to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Let's talk about banned books because there are people who don't want us to be talking about banned books.

1:13Ryan Holiday: Book banning. Book bans. Book banning. Book ban. Banning books. Hundreds of books banned from schools. And we're actually learning that it's happening more often here in Texas than any other state in the nation. I don't just mean the people who are in fact banning books. but if you've ever seen a post or an article about the topic or you've seen it come up on social media you'll notice that the comment section are swarmed with people just straight up lying about what's happening i've seen this since we opened our banned book library here on main street in historic bass strip texas it's a lending library people can take a book leave the book the whole point is in response to the book bans that have happened all over texas including in this very county all over the United States and all over the world, we wanted to strike back by making those books free and accessible and by presenting people a chance to highlight their favorite book that's been banned or challenged or questioned.

2:06Ryan Holiday: But I've noticed in the comments a lot of people speaking a lot of nonsense about this topic. So I wanted to take a second to address some of those things. My favorite comment is the people who say something like, look, there's a difference between between banning books and taking books out of libraries, or people go, you're oversimplifying. These books haven't been banned in the sense that people can't read or own them. They've just been removed from school libraries and classrooms. They've been taken out of curriculum. You know, we refuse to use taxpayer money to buy them. It's like, sir, you're describing book banning.

2:45Ryan Holiday: I don't know how to say this to you any other way. You're like, oh, I don't believe in censorship. I just think people shouldn't be allowed to say or hear certain things. That's what censorship is. Book banning is not just throwing them in the street and lighting them on fire. It's not just, oh, you'll go to jail if you'll read this. When we talk about book banning, we're talking about anyone trying to restrict the public's access from books, trying to make it impossible for taxpayer money to support certain titles, trying to put pressure on authors or teachers or librarians or retailers from carrying or supporting certain titles because you disagree with it for religious reasons, because you disagree with it for political correctness reasons, because you disagree with it ideologically, because you disagree with its content.

3:36Ryan Holiday: Whatever the reason is, right, book banning is when we're trying to prevent people's access to books. Now, this leads to the next and probably the most common pushback you see when people try to raise this issue of book banning. They go, oh yeah, it's banned, even though you can still buy it on Amazon. Apparently, the argument here is if the book is commercially available or literally available anywhere else, it's not banned. Okay, if a specific school district bans a book, it is banned there for those people, and it's reasonable that people in that school district, but all over the country and all over the world would have a problem with this, right?

4:15Ryan Holiday: I think it's stupid that the USSR banned and suppressed Tolstoy's A Calendar of Wisdom for its religious content, right? Because it had Christian themes in it just as much as I would have a problem with Christians banning a book in the United States. Both those books we could speak of as being banned. But here's my real problem with this argument, and I've used this analogy before. In the South, leading up into the Civil War, there were certain books that were banned. Uncle Tom's Cabin, for instance. It was a criminal offense in some cases to read that book or to even talk about that book. Now, was it still widely available in Boston or California?

4:54Ryan Holiday: Yeah, but it's still a big problem that it's been there. So this excuse that because the book is available somewhere. It's not a problem that it's banned elsewhere. This is a ridiculous argument that I cannot imagine anyone advancing in good faith, which leads me to another common crisis. And they go, look, book bannings were a thing of the past, right? When the church would ban books or governments would ban books. But what's happening today is a minor issue and not a big deal. I think it is a big deal, but that's also what we're talking about. When we're talking about banned books, we're talking about how historically, for hundreds, thousands of years, governments, churches, institutions have banned books and tried to prevent people's access to them.

5:36Ryan Holiday: And those are the books that we're talking about that we're celebrating that we're trying to put in people's hands, right? Catholic Church has banned books, but also, historically, one of the most banned books is the Bible. It's important when we're talking about banned books that we're specifically not just talking about books that are banned right now, that maybe you actually do think are inappropriate or dangerous in some way, but it's important. This is an inclusive issue. We're talking about Galileo's books being banned. We're talking about Marcus Aurelius appearing on a church list. We're talking about all sorts of scientific texts and religious texts and philosophical texts.

6:12Ryan Holiday: We're talking about books being considered obscene in the 1950s that no one would consider obscene today. We're talking about how some books were considered dangerous in when they came out and now are considered dangerous because they're anachronistic, right? Huckleberry Finn being a great example of this, it challenged racial ideas when it came out. And then today, some people think it's inappropriate because it uses the N-word and that could offend people, right? When we're talking about banned books, when we have a banned book library, or when we celebrate Banned Book Month, we're talking about all books that have ever been banned, And by talking about them, we're trying to bring awareness to what a problematic and timeless impulse this is.

6:57Ryan Holiday: Look, just because you can't go to jail for reading a book, it's not made illegal by federal law, doesn't mean there aren't book banning. There are thousands of books that have been banned. Look, this book right here, this is a children's book, a hilarious children's book called I Need a New Butt, which my kids love. spoiler alert the guy needs a new but because his has a crack in it it's a hilarious edition here it farts a school principal read this to his students here in texas and you know what happened it's a hilarious book it says but a lot so the kids started saying but and some parents complained and then the superintendent fired that principal okay did congress pass a law that said no one can read this book did the texas state legislature pass a law that said no one could read this book No, that didn't happen.

7:46Ryan Holiday: But any reasonable person would say if you are firing teachers or principals or harassing librarians until they quit simply for talking about or making certain books available, that is a form of book banning and censorship that has no place in a free country. OK, so it's just dishonest to say that there is no book banning happening in the U.S., that this isn't serious, that the stakes aren't high. And it's definitely dishonest to say, oh, this is only happening for sexually explicit books. This is only happening for an incredibly small number of controversial books. Actually, no, it's happening for completely innocent, completely appropriate books.

8:28Ryan Holiday: Also, this impulse that to protect kids from sexually explicit books, it might be well-intentioned, but it causes all sorts of problems. The people that are banning books are really just trying to protect children from these books that are pornographic. What about these totally insane gay sex books? Those should have been banned. Look, do I think it's revealing that your problem is with books that have gay sex in it, not books that have sex in it? Yeah, you're probably tipping your hand a little bit. Look, would I hand each one of these books to my kids? Probably not. If they came home and they're reading it, would I smack it out of their hands and tell them never to look at or speak of something again?

9:06Ryan Holiday: No, I would have a conversation with my children about what's in this book, which by the way, is what books are about. The real problem with these bands, however well-intentioned they start, is they tend to make a lot of mistakes, right? They paint with a broad brush. I'll give you an example. Here in Texas, there was some controversy about this book called Lawn Boy, which I actually haven't read. I have no interest in reading. I probably wouldn't read it to my kids, but apparently it's like a gay coming of age book. There's some sexually explicit things in it, or so I have heard. Okay, but this woman gets up and she demands that her school get rid of this book, Lawn Boy.

9:42Ryan Holiday: It's totally inappropriate, right? She's ranting and raving about it. Well, it turns out the librarian gets up and explains they don't carry that book. They carry a different book that's about mowing lawns. Okay. So again, the impulse, however well intentioned is inherently problematic and it tends to lead to dangerous places. Look, when I was a kid, I went to the library. I remember getting what I thought was a Western. I loved Louis L 'Amour books, which by the way, have some adult themes in them. And suddenly, you know, I'm reading some fricking bodice ripper lady Western. And I was like, what is this?

10:15Ryan Holiday: And you know what I did? I talked to my parents about it and they said, Hey, probably don't check any more of those out and that was the end of that right i thought the problem was that kids these days were sensitive little snowflakes and we didn't like that now these same people are saying this future fighter pilot or admiral or navy seal can't handle maya angelou's memoir we don't trust them with these adult themes in these books it's ridiculous you know they banned um rupee cores milk and honey one of the best-selling poetry books of all time so millions of copies number one on the new york times list popular with people who for being honest weren't reading a lot of poetry before instead of celebrating that instead of saying that's a good thing people were mad that there's some sexual themes in these poems but the sexual themes are there because she's writing about her me too experiences like there's a difference between pornography and sex ed, just like there's a difference between graphic sexual themes and having to talk about graphic sexual things that have happened historically or to an individual.

11:21Ryan Holiday: And in fact, like sexual assault activists and people in women's shelters and all sorts of groups have said, hey, this book helps with the healing. It helps with understanding. It helps with destigmatizing something that otherwise people are dealing with in private or with shame. I actually had no idea that this was one of the banned books. And I reached out to Rupi, her publisher was nice enough to send dozens of copies of the book to the banned book library, because something like 15 different school districts have banned this book, and then another half dozen or so banned one of her other books.

11:55Ryan Holiday: Like, this is real, and it is happening. We were looking to spruce up our front porch. The weather's finally getting better. We wanted to spend some time hanging out outside with the kids. So we got these awesome hammocks, and we actually We got them from today's sponsor, Wayfair. If you drove by our house, you'd see us out there with our kids reading. We've got this new kitten all hanging out in the hammocks. It's been awesome. And that's because on Wayfair, you'll find quality materials that stand up to real life. They sell furniture and decor that's built to last. And when you shop with Wayfair Verified, it's your shortcut to durable pieces that are hand vetted by product specialists using their 10-point quality inspection.

12:31Ryan Holiday: They've got thousands of products at every style and budget, whether you're simply replacing an appliance or transforming your home from top to bottom this holiday season. Wayfair's got great reviews as well, so you can find more than 20 million verified five-star reviews from real shoppers. Find pieces made for real life and get even more value with Wayfair Rewards. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase. Head over to wayfair.com to shop all things home. W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

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14:04Ryan Holiday: steps in and gets it canceled because he doesn't like the ideas in the book. Now, again, did the authors go to jail for writing this book? No. Is it illegal in the state of Texas for it to be taught in schools? No. But when an elected politician is stepping in to prevent access to a book or ideas in a book when they are punitively going after authors and writers that they disagree with and don't like, that's a problem. And I don't think it's a stretch to call that book banning. And if you want to call it something else, what you're really doing is splitting hairs so you don't have to face the reality of this problem.

14:40Ryan Holiday: Okay, the other one we get with the banned library all the time. They go, what about Camp of the Saints? I'm sure you have Donald Trump's Art of the Deal there. They'll name some conservative book that may actually have been banned at various points, which I don't think is a good thing. And they'll somehow try to undermine the existence of our banned book library because we may or may not have it. It's not a good faith argument because they haven't actually been here to see if we have it. But fundamentally what they're saying when they say this is, I don't understand how a lending library works.

15:11Ryan Holiday: I have personally out of my pocket paid for hundreds of books to go in this library. I've spent thousands of dollars. I feel strongly about this one or this one or this one. But the idea is it's donation based. If you think that's a book we should have in this band book library, put it here. I'm not censoring these titles that would be kind of ridiculous no but what you are also saying when you're saying this is book banning does exist and you don't like it when it happens to books that you think people should read so in a way we agree right I don't think we should be banning books okay if there is a book that you have read that you think is important that is banned send it to the library that's what it's for just send it to attention ban books 912 main street we'll put it there.

16:01Ryan Holiday: Okay, one of the other arguments you'll see a lot is look at this dumb passage in this book, or look at this extreme passage in this book, or this book is advancing some woke ideology or whatever. This is what we saw when the U.S. Naval Academy removed at the direct order of the Department of Defense and the President of the United States over 400 books from its library. Now, some of those books were really good and really important. Maya Angelou was on that list. There were books about the Holocaust. There were books about Black service members in the Navy over the years. Those were there and that was an abomination that they were being removed.

16:34Ryan Holiday: Now there were other ones that just looking at the title, my impulse was similar to other people's. That doesn't sound like a very good book. It sounds like social science gobbledygook, quite frankly, but libraries carry hundreds of thousands of books, especially academic ones, right? So scholars can have access to them. Students can have access to them. So taxpayers payers can have access to them. They are not in the business of picking winners and losers. They are in the knowledge business. I will fully concede lots of books that have appeared on banned book lists over the years are incorrect, are stupid, in some cases incredibly offensive and toxic and even dangerous.

17:20Ryan Holiday: I mean, look, Mein Kampf is one of the worst books ever written. Now, book banning is itself an evil. It is also, I would say in many cases, a direct violation of everything that a free society holds dear. So just because a book is bad doesn't mean it should be banned. And it certainly shouldn't be banned by an angry mob or at a city council meeting or a school board meeting or because a lot of people tweeted about it on the internet. That is a bad process, which leads to bad policy and leads to bad outcomes. I can fully say as an author, most books are shitty. Most books are bad. Most books are not worth reading.

18:00Ryan Holiday: But that is very different than saying that should be suppressed by government fiat or by a mob. One of the things you'll hear people say is they'll go, oh, these aren't bad books. These are some of the most famous well-read books in history, right? Catcher in the Rye, To Kill a Mockingbird, Fahrenheit 451, 1984. Yes, it is laughable how many classic books have been on banned book lists over the years. And I don't just mean when they came out and then when they were controversial. I mean, like right now. By the way, some of the efforts, mostly by Republicans, to restrict and change academic standards, if applied equally, would also make the Bible inappropriate and inaccessible to kids.

18:44Ryan Holiday: So people just fundamentally don't understand how extreme this has gotten and what the implications of it would be and are when we allow it to take effect. Another version of this is they'll go, people should be able to read whatever they want in their private life. My problem is when we're using government money to support books or ideas that I don't agree with. Okay, but you understand that you personally, just you or you, a minority of people, don't have veto power over what the rest of us do with taxpayer money. You understand that the purpose of a library is to spend the people's money on books that people are going to like.

19:25Ryan Holiday: Not all people, but everyone should be able to find something that they like. Like, libraries are socialism. I don't know how to tell you this. The point of a library is to spend the people's money on art and ideas and information, and then it's there to be accessible because it is a public good. We didn't say, hey, what do you think people should be allowed to have and not have? In fact, we have laws. We have this thing called the First Amendment that says the government doesn't get to prevent people from accessing those things, doesn't get to apply it in equally or selectively. The last one I want to address is this idea that all this talk about book banning is much ado about nothing.

20:08Ryan Holiday: It's hysteria. It's a moral panic. Only a very, very small percentage of schools or people or places are engaged in this. Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. First off, it actually is much bigger than people think, as we were talking about. Thousands of titles across thousands of schools, thousands of instances. Again, not just now, but over the centuries, this has been a problem. when we talk about book banning, we're not just talking about this moment. We're talking about a historical trend that has historically always led to a bad place. There's a famous quote that says, wherever they burn books, you can be sure eventually they will burn people.

20:50Ryan Holiday: When we're talking about book banning, if you need people to concede that it's not widespread, it's only happening in a handful of instances, great. Then we're early to it. Let's nip it in the bud before it becomes more pernicious, before this becomes common practice, right? Before it ends where historically it always ends. Look, there's lots to say about banned books. It's good that the topic is controversial. It's good that it is creating debate. That's what books are about. People should be talking about them. They should elicit strong opinions. This is all wonderful. What I would do is challenge you not to find ways to rationalize this or dismiss it or pretend that it doesn't exist.

21:34Ryan Holiday: I would challenge you to face what's actually happening here, to not deny it, and to go read some of these books. Look at some of the titles that are on these lists and read and engage with them and encourage your children and the people in your community to do the same thing.

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