Tom Segura On Career, Comedy, And Craziness

0:00I got an amazing night's sleep last night. One, because my six-year-old fell asleep in the car at like six o 'clock and he transferred him from the car seat to the bed and it stuck, which is just magic. So he's in bed way earlier than normal. But I sleep really well every night because I have a 8 Sleep Pod 5 Ultra, which is 8 Sleep's best product. I've used 8 Sleep for many years now and it's just totally transformed how I sleep, made me sleep better, made my wife sleep better. It's amazing. So basically, Eight Sleep is this topper that goes over your mattress. It can heat and cool both sides separately.

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2:59Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their actual lives. But first, we've got a quick message from one of our sponsors.

3:49Hey, it's Ryan Holiday. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. This is part two of my interview with Tom Segura, the excellent and very, very, very funny comedian. I didn't mention this in my intro last time, but we have a kid who works here at the bookstore. He was working here over summer break. He worked here while he was in high school, and then he came here back this summer. His name's Austin. And he obviously likes books or he wouldn't work at a bookstore, but he was telling us how excited he was earlier this summer to go to a Barnes & Noble in Austin to meet his favorite comedian, to get him to sign a copy of a book that he loved.

4:29And that was today's guest, Tom Segura. He wrote this great book called I'd Like to Play Alone, Please, which is a collection of very funny essays. Tom signed a handful of copies when he was here at the Painted Porch to do this interview. and he walked out with a bunch of books that I recommended that, as I'm saying, I will post. But I really enjoyed sitting down and talking with Tom, one of the funniest people on the planet. His new special, Sledgehammer, is hilarious. Ball Hog is great. Disgraceful is great. Completely Normal is great. And then his other one, Mostly Stories, you can check out, I think, all of them on Netflix.

5:02You can watch his podcast on YouTube where he has an enormous following, one called Your Mom's House, which he hosts with his wife, Christina P. He was an excellent guest on the podcast and his other one, Two Bears, One Cave, which I was on. I'll link to that too. Thanks to Tom for coming all the way out. And I'm looking forward to going and seeing Tom when he performs in Austin, which he does on a regular basis. He's working on new material, which is something we talked about at the beginning of the first episode. You know, what it means to sort of clear out, to work on something for a long time, get it out of the world, and then have to start over from scratch.

5:36Well, that's what I am in the midst of myself, having just turned in my next book and then needing to start on the next one. So I'll let you get into this interview with Tom Segura. You can follow him on Instagram at Tom Segura. Find tour dates at TomSegura.com. Check out his many, many specials on Netflix and check out his new book, I'd Like to Play Alone, Please, which we have signed copies of here at the bookstore.

6:06So when I got signed by a big time management company, I was like, oh man, this is like, and this was like who everyone was saying, like you got to try to get with these people. I was like really feeling myself. Yeah. I was supposed to start on a new show. I was working in post-production and this was going to be like a pretty big post. You work in for set runs, like this would be a 12 week or 16 week kind of run and i was gonna i got a promotion and they were gonna give me overtime for the first time yeah and they would work us like dogs and i just walked into my post supervisor and i was like hey man you know this thing happened yesterday i signed with a manager i was like so i'm not gonna be able to like you i've made it i've made it because i have a manager yeah and then i remember i call i was like yeah yeah he goes oh you have an audition for this movie tomorrow it's first time i had like a big audition and i was like yeah i uh i quit my job and he goes what i quit my job he goes why i go because i'm working with you now and he was like oh okay um well we'll see how that like he didn't know what to say yeah and i was like oh man i i just cut like my life support no i i feel like i accidentally did that like like i bought my first house like with my my pay stubs not my like 1099 sure you know what i mean so i like i was like a regular person living life and then i had this artistic thing on the side that eventually overtook it yeah and yeah you want like you want to give yourself as much runway as possible and i don't think people understand it's like if you blow up your life to pursue this thing which sometimes you have to do to get out of stuff sure but it's like you're not going to have the leverage to not do shit that you don't want to do or that you shouldn't do because you don't have any money and you literally need to live.

8:02You know, like I got offered the first book, my first sort of offer to do a book came in like 2008 or 2009. Oh. And the obstacle, which I ultimately did with The Obstacle is the Way, but The Obstacle is the Way didn't come out until 2014. Yeah, I was going to say, okay. And Robert Green, who was my sort of mentor, was like, you have to turn this down. And I was like, are you kidding me? He's like, first off, it's a shitty deal. Like they're offering you no money up front. It's not like a big publisher. Like he's like, but that all aside, content wise, like you're not ready to do this. And that was extremely hard.

8:38Like you're getting your shot and I have to like be like, I'll wait for a later shot that might not come around. It's the hardest thing. It was so hard, but he was totally right. Because if I was, if I'm now looking back at the obstacle and what is the way and I'm like, I'm a little young. it would have been insane to write that at 22 or something like that you're lucky that he told you but you're luckier that you listened yes um and i uh it's a hard i remember a very similar lesson everything was there was a a period where now it's like specials come out every week and you can self-produce and it's easier to and it's fantastic yeah for those comedians and also for stand-up comic it's great that you have so much coming out but some people shouldn't be putting them out yes the what happened before specials was albums right yeah and so in like the early 2000s is like as albums albums were the hottest probably in the late 90s early 2000s and then it's a slow thing it aligned with music where like album sales just started to decline yeah but there were people who had like number one album there were some big people big big ones so i remember right when i was like i'm probably only that's why it's a it was good that i listened also i was like five years in maybe and i was working this weekend with david tell who's like he's every comic's favorite my favorite comedian of all time i mean he's just he's amazing and i was a huge fan yeah i couldn't believe i was working with him and throughout the weekend we're like you know just talking about this and that and i was like yeah you know i'm trying to figure out whether i um i should do it out i think i should do an album you know you think i should do an album and he goes uh do you have an hour you're in love with and i go no right he's like like i think there's your answer he just kind of walked away and i was like oh yeah like just just because somebody goes you can yes record one yeah doesn't mean like that that's literally when you should go let's record or let's shoot this is when you go oh this is fully cooked and ready to go.

10:42And anything other than that, like people are getting now these opportunities to shoot these things. And you're like, Hey man, like, have you been like, have you even been working this hour? Yeah, sure. Like it's not, it's not ready. Seneca had this word, uh, euthymia, which he said is the sense of the path that you're on. And he said, not being distracted by the paths that crisscross yours, especially from those who are hopelessly lost. Ooh. And that's extremely hard to have at any age, like, but I think younger, you know, you're like, well, someone's doing this and someone's doing this because you're measuring yourself against all these other people.

11:19But then as you, even as you become successful, now all of a sudden there's all these things that you can do. Yeah. And it takes an immense amount of discipline. I think also confidence, just like sort of self-awareness and sort of strategy to go like, here's when I'm, here are the things I want to do. Here's when I want to do them. and not really paying attention to what other people are doing or everything that's coming into your inbox. It takes all those things, right? Because you also, that comparison thing, it also just shifts. You just compare yourself to new people, more successful people, people who are doing incredible things.

11:57But I also feel like you get this, if you're not too caught up in that chase and in your own ego and everything, you actually learn to like really settle into the fact that you you intellectually grasp like oh like he's i'm not comparing myself to what ryan's doing whatever he he just did like he's on his own path and you kind of get this thing where you're like you're not you you find that it doesn't make you go like what about me like you know like you did i did do that at 25 and like now when i hear about that. I don't go like, like, what am I going to do? You know? Like, well, it's also helpful to realize, um, like some people are profoundly unhappy and then other people don't like doing the thing.

12:42So like, like I try to remind myself, like I like writing. I like writing books. That's what I enjoy doing. So I didn't get into writing as a means to an end to do something else. That is the end. That is the end. Yeah. And so, yes, there's definitely different opportunities and different ways to monetize it. And some of that helps you do the thing. But if I'm like, well, so-and-so just started a company or so-and-so's speaking this many dates a year, I go, that's all great. But my main thing was writing. Like the reward for getting successful at this thing should not be that I don't get to do the thing anymore.

13:17If the reward for me is doing the thing. If you hate it, like I'm sure there's standup comics who don't, who are good at standup comedy, but they love acting yeah yeah they love right or whatever so so for them it's they're getting in and then they're getting out yeah totally but if you don't want to get out don't follow the people who are getting out or you're going to get out and be unhappy i've seen i've seen both examples um it's fascinating to watch because you can tell the ones who like the first acting thing that they're like i'll see you guys later and like and they're fine because they're happy with that what's more interesting almost is the people who turn down uh some of those opportunities that come when you have stand-up success yeah and you're like you don't want to do they're like i don't want to do that shit yeah you're like really you almost can't believe it at first because we're also kind of we're all brought up now it's shifted yeah so if you're in your 20s now doing stand-up you don't have the same kind of model that we had but our model was like you do stand-up so that you can get a sitcom.

14:18That was the win. Now people turn down those things left and right. But you're also definitely not supposed to say no to things that could pay you a lot of money. Sure. That's stupid, irresponsible. The other thing though that is crazy that some people still have are unaware of is that high like high level big time touring comedians make way more money. Sure. And even like some of those talent agents who represent actors are just kind of learning this they're like yeah you know like that committee is going to lose money yeah doing your thing lose yeah like he has to really want to do it you know i remember because i worked at a talent uh managing agency when i first moved to la and um i signed this youtuber and uh i was like in the break room or something and some guy came up to me who was like a reality star television manager or something and And he goes, I heard you sign this person on YouTube.

15:11He's like, what are you going to do? Commission ad checks? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, he just thought that was like the craziest thing in the world. Which is, of course, now what everyone wants to do. Of course. And that's where the money is. And it's, yeah, first off, if you don't understand how the business actually works, you think you're making a good financial decision. But actually, long-term viability and independence is always going to be the best financial decision you can make. but you're you're just not you're not supposed to like i remember this wasn't that long ago in 2016 after trump got elected i got and i i'd more or less gotten totally out of the sort of media marketing world but i got offered uh a job as the um uh press secretary for like a cabinet member like so i'd move to washington dc i would be a player this uh it would have been like a whole twist like it would have been a it it could i could you could see it put aside from the fact that the whole administration is uh unconscionable and i wanted zero part it was that administration that offered you yes yeah but but it would have it i mean who knows what i'd be doing now right um i mean i know what i'd be doing now because i'd be one of these it didn't work out well for anyone that took those jobs for the most part like the best ones had to like testify for the january 6th commission right and the worst ones are way worse yeah but the point is it's hard when people want you to do stuff to be like i appreciate it but it's not for me yeah which is what you said kind of right yeah like yeah i kind of i mean i honestly what flashed through my head was my wife's gonna support me i had my youngest was just born i was like my wife is gonna support me we're gonna do this distance and then i was like flash forward a couple years when i think about why we got divorced it's gonna be because i took a job in a city that i don't live in and don't want to live in don't want to live yeah and i was like so it doesn't matter how good this is yeah one version of what i want my life to be is to not blow up the life that i currently have and then it was like then it was like the logistics of like then you got to put all your money in like a trust and i was like my career was just starting also to i was like i work so hard to get to be a person who writes about whatever i want then i'm gonna have a job like what would your what would your job have been it's a it would be press secretary press secretary to academy so you're like you do all their media stuff you said you'd be good at that too yeah i definitely could have done it yeah um i also think i would have liked to have you as my manager back then yeah that would have been fun but i also i like again yeah i remember i was like these people all drive nice cars they seem important they have lunch at fancy places but i was like what do they fucking do i know you would have been suits every day too by the way yeah well i was like but they don't do anything i was like they literally don't do anything they take a chunk of other people's money i don't hate all agents or managers i like mine and stuff too but i'm just like they don't do their their contribution to society is not a creative one you know and i was like that doesn't One of their facilitators, basically, right?

18:24Yeah, I was like, that doesn't, that's not, that doesn't, that doesn't, I think everyone has kind of a unique potential, like a unique thing that they can contribute. Yeah. And you got to figure out what that is and do that. How long were you a talent manager? I wasn't a manager in the sense because I was a kid, but like, I was like an assistant and I was signing people. So I was like going places. Yeah. So I was like on a desk for a little while and then I got promoted to being like a new media person that I dropped out of college. and then I got fired in this sort of controversial way. Really?

18:56I think we might have told this story on your podcast. Really? Yeah, so I was working for Robert Greene at the time and so I had his books on my desk and one of which was The 40 Laws of Power and the manager of the company, one of the partners at the company, one of the partners was a fan slash friend, that's who'd hired me and who I was working for, but his partner became convinced that I was like plotting or scheming. And this was this after you had worked with green? I was still working with, I was working with, I was doing these two things at the same time. I got you. But so then we sort of had it out.

19:32Wait, convinced that you were plotting to like take over? I don't know that I was just, yeah, that I was like an ambitious kid who couldn't be trusted or something. Who reads 48 laws of power. It was hilarious and insane. And then also it sucked. I mean, I hated it, but. Yeah. Any system that makes you do shit for a long time to maybe someday not have to do shit is probably a broken, corrupt system. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, they used to start in the mailroom. Then there's not really mailrooms anymore, but then you would start answering phones. Sure. And it was just the fucking worst. Yeah, some people love it.

20:03That's the crazy thing. Some people's like, they love that business. You know what I mean? Like, you meet them and they're like, I started in that room and then I moved up. and you could just see them light up talking about it. They love it. Yeah, I guess I should be more understanding. I want to ask you, because you know how sometimes in conversation I've seen you on other podcasts, you'll be like, oh, you know, Marcus Aurelius said this. Seneca used to say this. Are all those, do you stay fresh by still? Talking about them? And like, you know, going back and reading parts of it sometimes? Because it can't all just be from when you read it the first time, right?

20:40No, no. No, I think, so I think that's actually an interesting question. I think philosophy isn't something that you read one time. It's not like I read a novel or this, like I read it and I got it. It's supposed to be this process that you're engaging in. So to quote, Epictetus says you should write about it, talk about it, share it, and you should be engaging with it. And that's the process. So that's what I'm doing just like as a person who's interested in this stuff. and then I have this extra benefit of because I talk about it and I'm supposed to be writing about it, I'm publishing. I'm engaging with it all the time, which is also the philosophical process.

21:21So I have a recall because I'm supposed to be popularizing and sharing the ideas, so I'm engaging with it. It makes sense. I think the same thing holds true for, I say this for health and fitness, that you shouldn't keep it to yourself. You should talk about it because the more you talk about it, you almost are prompting yourself to be accountable to it. Do you know what I mean? So if you're like, you shouldn't eat this for this reason, you're also having the extra benefit of reminding yourself why you don't eat that. Yeah, it's like when someone's like, so what do you eat? You go like, you say the things and then you're like, yeah, if I haven't eaten that, that's what I should eat.

21:57Or like, what do you do for workouts? And it's like, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, if I leave here. Three days a week, I do these things. That's why I think it's good to like have the conversation all the time.

22:12Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

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25:17What's about making it part of your identity as opposed to just this thing that you know? Yeah. And then there's a benefit for me, obviously, also of writing about it. is like, I have to be like, oh, I can't, I can't act differently. Which applies to the same thing, right? Because if you're asking me about like workouts and stuff and I'm like, then I can't be like, I'm just not, I don't, I'm not going to do it this week. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Someone told me like when people ask you to do stuff, you can reply like, I have a rule that, right? So like, you know, like, you know, like I have a rule, I don't accept, you know, like free gifts or something like that you're saying to yourself what the rule it's not they don't actually need to know but you're saying to yourself that's my it's your reminder and it's reaffirming it's like with boundaries you're like sorry like i don't go in uh i don't you know i don't go in other people's hotel rooms or something like that right right you're like i don't do that it's weird i know but that's me it's not you and then you don't find yourself in people's hotel rooms you shouldn't be sure you know sure or if you're like i don't do drugs you know like i i don't i don't do that no that's the thing man I'm completely sober if you're just like sometimes sometimes not then someone's like and then yeah that's a good way to approach it yeah but I also some of the reasons I say them is then they get cut up and they go on eclipse and things there's also a performative element of it that's a little weird but yeah people are like how do you know all this stuff it's like well it's my that's like my job it is and you're literally like I was just in your office yeah and there's just like crates of notes.

26:53So like, yeah, I could see, now like even seeing that go, oh, okay. Like at least like I could see you're writing this chapter, you access this information, you reminded yourself of this quote from this, you know, it makes sense how it kind of is. When I actually learned that as a research assistant, that's how I started. Like my job was to find that stuff for Robert. That's crazy. So you sort of develop a habit and then that habit generates the stuff that you do. 48 Laws of Power, to me, by the way, feels like somebody talking about the Godfather movie. Yeah. And you being like, oh, I haven't seen, I haven't read that.

27:31Oh, really? But I've heard, like I'm saying, I've heard it talked about in the same way. Sure. You know, like this is unbelievable. Still, I'm like, I have to read this book. Well, Bill Simmons had a thing where he's like, you should always have one movie that you haven't seen. He's like, I've never seen The Big Lebowski. And he won't see it just because it bothers people. you know oh just so like get a rise out of that that's kind of funny so but there are things like that where you're like at a certain point you're just like i think like that ship the ship has passed and like i feel it'd be weird to go back the funny thing is if if it's super influential yeah in pop culture and you wait a while you'll see derivative versions of it yeah and then the original won't hit it won't it won't have the same impact if you see a movie like a comedy comedy especially because what happens is a comedy that is a breakout comedy has something in it that's kind of even though there's no totally original premises and stuff there's something there's some quality of it that they're doing kind of for the first time sure and then when it's a hit there will be all these knockoff versions of it and you will be if you don't watch that original you'll be unaware that you're watching knockoff versions of this big thing and then when you finally go see it you'll be like oh i i've seen like yeah yeah 20 versions of this it won't have the same impact on you it's also a little awkward like i remember actually in jim gaffin's first special the comedy central one he has a joke he's like has anyone seen the movie heat you know and they're like that's from eight years ago but i want to talk about it now yeah you're just like you don't want to be you've been pretending that you've seen it or just like not admitting that you haven't seen it and now you have but to talk about it is to admit that you were late yeah i'm late on i'm late on shows almost all the time yeah i mean look i'm i'm out i'm out at night i'm performing at night um i do have a little bit of that thing too that i don't know what the origin of it is where everybody's like have you seen and i'm like oh fuck off yeah like you know like i and then when i do watch those things i'm like this is amazing i kick myself same that's i still remember breaking but everyone's talking about breaking but i'm like what is everybody talking about and then i started breaking bad as the final season was airing and i was like this is outrageously good you guys seen this show it was like yeah i know it was the most amazing show but yeah i mean i um yeah i haven't seen a lot of the big shows i completely miss i just did that with succession with like i started just as i was finishing and it was it was amazing yeah but also I found that as I've had kids and then as I've gotten like it's not that I don't it's like I don't need whatever those shows do for people and so like what I really want to watch is like a rerun of The Office or Seinfeld for like the 8 ,000th time or sports like I want to watch something that like the stakes are very low and I don't want to be emotionally manipulated you know I also feel like yeah I mean I also have this thing where I'll watch two episodes or something yeah and not But one of the things about streamers that I don't think we talk about enough is like, okay, so the old model was like, it's got to be good enough that you're talking about it and then you look forward to it every week.

30:46Yeah. Now the model is like, basically, they're just trying to steal as much time from you as humanly possible. Yeah. Right? So you watch one hour of Bloodlines or whatever, and then it doesn't have to be that good. It just has to be good enough in the last five minutes that you let the autoplay start the next episode. and so realizing that you're just kind of being emotional for me realizing i was just kind of being emotionally toyed with to spend hours vegged out in one sitting yeah it kind of broke the spell of it for me and then i go like i like feeling good and these things inherently make me feel bad same thing with like twitter the point of twitter is to make you stay there hate yourself and humanity enough that you keep tweeting and checking and you could also just not do that Yeah, I've all but abandoned, and not because I have some grand plan to do so, almost all social media.

31:42Yeah. I mean, the only social media that I'm active on is Instagram. Yeah. Somebody manages, like does TikTok for me. Somebody does Facebook for me. I don't even know. I don't even know how to log in. Who are those people? Yeah. And Twitter just kind of sits there. I sometimes just go, oh, I should repost that there. I don't really think about it. Right. I mean, that's sort of, you know, I'm happy about it. I'm not like, I'm not bummed that that's the reality of it. I get more done when I'm not on those things. I'm never on social media and I go, I'm so glad I did that. Like afterwards, I never feel good.

32:20There's like, it's not shame, but it's just like a, that triggered things that are not conducive in me to liking my life. Sure. Chris DiStefano, a buddy of mine, a really funny comedian, a little while ago. Yeah, he's been speaking a couple times. Yeah, he's fantastic. He told me a few months back that he gave somebody else the login. And what he does is when you see a post of his, he has recorded it, but he sends it to that person to post. So he's like, I don't see anything. That's how it is for all of it gets done and it's scheduled. Yeah. And every once in a while, I'll check to see how stuff's doing or get messages from people that I actually know.

33:01Because that's the problem is that it is also how you interact with people. Or you find people that you want to be friends with because you're fans of their work and they connect with you. You're like, oh shit, this person tagged me. I didn't know. That's a sort of a high level cool thing to have. But when I see like, Elon Musk has 11 kids. He has 11? He has 11 kids. He runs three or four companies. he's the richest person in the world and he tweets like 90 times a day almost like he owns the thing but like he should be too busy no i completely what's wrong with you and also if like if you're in that position let's say you send some tweets you're like all right this is like some you know kind of messages i want out he's just like replying to a guy who's like your shit sucks it's a cat turd six said something anti-semitic and i'm gonna be like wow you make a good point he's replying to people who and he's like making fun of them like you have time for this how do you have time for this well he's like seeking out culture war issues to to like get mad about i don't understand it at all i really don't understand it something is breaks in people's brains and in their soul and then it's a feedback loop where it yeah makes you worse like something about this too the the actual purchase of twitter yeah i think might be related to his activity on because he made an offer that he then did not want to.

34:27And then the SEC, everybody got involved. They're like, no, they're holding you to this now. And so this like, on paper, I mean, I don't know how anybody looks at this and goes, this is a great investment. It may be the worst investment of all time. It seems insane. And also when you compare prior purchases of massive social media companies by individuals and or companies for large amounts of money, have all ended in disaster. So when you look at an acquisition of something like this, and you go, it's Twitter for$44 billion. And you're telling me that this is a savvy... Has anyone torched their brand in a shorter amount of time?

35:12The other thing that I have never heard, I don't know, I've never heard people analyze this, but one of the big things in brands globally is brand recognition. Yeah. Right? Like, one of the most recognizable brands would be like Rolex. Everyone knows what that is. A Coke Mercedes, right? And Twitter is like a pretty well-known thing. And to change the name of it. Oh, that's just stupid on a whole. It's a strange thing to do. But I mean, people liked and admired and respected Elon Musk like 18 months ago. It's a very strange, it's a strange, and here's the thing, he has a bunch of super fanatics.

35:51That's some new people. They just suck. Yeah. He has people who are like, but they admire him in a way that doesn't even seem like somewhat rational. They're, it's a Messiah thing, right? Where they're like, this guy is a God. And they actually believe that his motives in everything is to better humanity. I'm like, are you fucking out of your mind that you think that all of these things are just, I'm just here to help people. you buy that yeah and you ask these people and they completely do buy it they think that it's it's just the the betterment of all humanity is why he's doing all these things like you think that's why he spent 44 billion dollars because he's such a champion of free speech like it's it's i don't know man it feels like i'm living in uh you know like make believe land when when you when And you hear these arguments.

36:43And the worst part is when you decide to engage in that conversation, because you know how nonsensical it is. It's like, I'm not even going to talk to one of those people about it. Well, one of my favorite ideas from the Stoics is, Marcus Ruella says, you know, remember you always have the power to have no opinion. And he fundamentally lacks the ability to just not have opinions about stuff. It's like Paul Pelosi gets viciously attacked by a crazy person. And it's like, I'm going to speculate about why that happened. Yeah. And I'm going to speculate something that if true, if not true is abhorrently cruel.

37:19Right. So what if I just, what if, what if I didn't have an opinion? And then if I do have an opinion, what if I just kept it to my fucking self? That's like a sort of basic discipline and decency that a human being has to cultivate. Sure. And you see how he is this incredibly successful person who just makes his life harder over and over and over again. Why do you think that is? He's bored? I think he's bored. I think he has no one around him that can tell him anything. And then I think he's also fundamentally unhealthy and unbalanced in the sense that it's not normal to be doing all this stuff.

37:55So there's probably like uppers and downers, you know, that maintain the whole thing. And that is bad for the human regulatory system. And you also chase, I think, because you experienced this, I've experienced this, which is when somebody goes, man, you're brilliant, right? They go, you're the genius. Yeah. And there's this part of you, the first time that like, you know, you get like this dopamine hit from it, right? They're like, you're fucking so brilliant. Yeah. And, but there's this part of your brain that goes, that is over the top, superlative. Yeah. Like that's hyperbole. And it's, and you get regulated and you go like, you're not.

38:35Yes. Right? Or you tell your, like, I'm not. Like, it's nice to hear, but I'm not. And I think when you hear it from so many people, you have this choice where you go, like, maybe I can just kind of, like, float in this space. Just live in that all the time. Yeah. And I think he kind of does. I think he kind of goes, like, he likes the fact that people, like, a serious newscaster will start their interview by being, like, you are a genius. And he's just like, I mean, he's obviously a very bright guy. I'm not saying that he's not. But I think you start to like want to live that, you know, like to feel that 24-7.

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40:21That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com, promo code STOIC. This deal is exclusive to listeners, and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I'm picking my kids up from school today and then doing our weekly routine, which is I take them over to Whole Foods. We get all our groceries for the week. Then we have dinner. It's one of their favorite things to do. It's one of my favorite things to do. And then my wife loves it because she doesn't have to take care of it. This holiday season, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner Whole Foods Market, has what you need to delight everyone at your table.

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41:21You have a great bit that I love. I won't make you perform it unless you want to, but it's about how once you had kids, you just like you didn't have time for certain stuff anymore. And I do think of all people, Elon Musk should have no time for this. But even if you only have one kid or you have anything, you don't have time to get in arguments with strangers on the internet. You just don't have time for it. No, you don't. You got to post and release. You got to move on. Yeah. You're just consumed by too many other things. Yeah. Like even, I don't know, I have a lot of freedoms because of my job.

41:58um but even today you know come here i gotta split i gotta go to a thing then i gotta get the kids yeah take them to this class and then it's like yeah you just regulated with um things to do but that you it's important like they go like oh like family like ties you down it ties you down to reality yeah because to earth because you can't do anything you want whenever you want it. No. And it's actually important that you have those burdens because it's like ballast. It's the assholes that keep you in line, man. Yeah. Yeah, they're just like, Jesus, they're so funny, man. But yeah, no, I was thinking about how, you know, I was thinking about on the way here, how my kids are the ones who have made me like be aware and laugh at my um my outrage when like when i've gotten upset yeah and i'm like no one's ever done that to me you know in my whole life yeah like i'm driving they didn't take it seriously they don't take it because you're a joke of a person yeah and you are when you're doing that i'm driving the car and i think about this that like how everyone else has reacted.

43:14I'm driving the car and it's like, you know, whatever they're doing back there, I'm like, knock it off. Hey guys, seriously. Hey, if you know, you know, I'm going to count to three. You know what? When we get home then, taking the stuff away, guys. And then I'm like, I've had to fuck, you know, like, God damn it. And as I'm doing that, my youngest is laughing so hard. And I'm in a full, like, full, like, rage. Knock it off. He knows you're totally impotent. You can't do anything about it. And then he's laughing so hard that I turn back and I start to laugh to myself. And that's the part that's never happened.

43:52You know what I mean? Sure. When you go, I'm fucking serious. Everyone's like, all right, all right, all right. But this is the only time where I've done that and then laughed and I'm driving. I'm like, that got me nowhere. How silly do I look? then I even in my own head go this is not worth getting as upset as I just got and then this kid is just like do that thing again like he thinks it's a bit yeah yeah sure no as an adult you have made up that it's not pathetic and ridiculous to be yelling in your closed metal box at someone else traveling 80 miles an hour away from you in their own metal box but your kid that's the most absurd thing in the entire world absurd yeah yeah they've also checked me in a different like at home i'm very upset about something and i've had them be like hey i'm like what he's like i'm a kid you need to talk to me i'm like what the fuck man like and i start laughing again and then i realize that he's right that's the crazy thing is this a fucking seven-year-old just being like as a as a kid you just need to talk to me in a normal voice I'm like, okay.

45:01Could you please not paint the walls? They weaponize stuff and it's so brilliant. Like I was asking my son, I was like, hey, I need you to do this or whatever. And he goes, is it okay if I say no? Yeah, yeah. I was like, where did you, that's like, you got to put on your clothes and be like, my body and my choice. You know, and he'll get these things that actually, that's actually like a good point. And that is a thing that you should know. And I'm glad that you know it. and why am I the only person that you're using it against? You know, like a stranger, you'd probably be like, sure, put a new shirt on me.

45:33Like, but like me, I'm doing it and you're going to get in my way about it. But like, so where did you get this? And it just stops you. It's like when he was like, is it okay if I say no? It was so earnest that it stopped me cold. And I was like, I mean, I guess. It doesn't, what I'm asking you to do, I don't even know why I'm asking you to do it. It doesn't actually matter. So sure, yes, you can choose to say no. And it kind of just stops you just like that. It does. And it really makes you think about how stupid things are. So why do we have to be on time? What are these rules about? I don't know why we have to be on time.

46:06I just made up in my head that it would be bad if we got here at 10.06 instead of 10. And I don't even want to go to the thing that I'm rushing us towards. And you don't want to go. So we should take our time. Then we don't have to be there as long. It's like, great point. The other day he picked up a copy of The Daily Stove, which is on the counter. and goes, oh, look, it's daddy's book, The Daily Butthole. Just like, great, appreciate that. So there's also just an inherent and repeated humbling that having kids is. I get called so many names. Butthole is like one of the most popular. Yeah, the other day I couldn't get this flashlight that I plugged in.

46:44It wouldn't come on. And then I come in the room and it's on. I go, how'd you get that to work? And he goes, I used my ass. I go, hey, man. I go, no, seriously, how'd you get it to work? He goes, I did. And I go, I really want to know. And then he comes over and he shows me that he used his ass to like to push it into the wall. And I go, okay. He goes, maybe you could try using your ass. And I go, okay, thank you very much. Like, but yeah, it's a lot of insults. I get a lot of insults from these guys. I have learned like whenever my kids say that they saw something or that something happened that I just have to believe them.

47:17Yeah. You know, they're like, I saw a monkey riding a tricycle. And I'm sure you did. And then sure enough, there's like a monkey riding a tricycle. Yeah. Actually, what happened with your son? And I don't remember exactly, so I won't like, you don't have to say what it is. But your son has like a weird nickname, right? And my son goes like, can we send this to computer? And I go like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I went to my wife and I was like, what the fuck is, who is this person that he's talking about? And it was your kid. Yeah, yeah. You know, he wanted to like send him something from Minecraft or whatever.

47:44And I go, oh, okay. I'll just assume, like, I assume you don't know what you're talking about because you never know what you're talking about. And in fact, you always know what you're talking about. and I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about. That's totally true. They say things that are, you know, when it sounds outrageous, it is actually true. Yes. Yeah, it happens all the time, all the time. No, like I remember he would come in our room in the middle of the night and go like, something woke me up. And we're like, sure you did. You just want to come in our bed. And then one night I slept in his bed or I fell asleep in his bed.

48:16And then sure enough, at like two in the morning, something my neighbors were doing woke me up. And I was like, it was actually a really good lesson to me, which is like, hear them, like actually put them in. Because again, they might be wrong. Like there, there isn't actually a monster in their closet, but it turns out there, there's this thing that's lighting up and it looks like eyes. Yeah. And that's terrifying. And so it's also this, like, you think, you know, but you don't. And if you just listen, they'll tell you. And then the other thing I've tried to remember, this is a great piece of advice.

48:47I got a parent and they said, the language of children is behavior. So like they don't know what they're experiencing and they couldn't articulate it if they did. So their behavior is telling you something. So you have to listen to that also. That's really interesting. Yeah. The behavior and, and they basically tell you, they do tell you, they lie. Yeah. But they do tell you what happened. They don't, they, they, every time like they tell me something that they, saw or experienced. My kid just got into somewhat of a fight at school. One of them did. And I was like, but I mean, I learned, you know, the story changed, but the bones were true.

49:32You know, the bones were true. Yeah. It's like, I don't think my kids have ever said, I'm tired, I'm hungry. Yeah. But when my oldest hit his brother, he was saying, I'm tired or I'm hungry. You know, it's like they're speaking. They just don't have the words to say those things. And then so if I can sort of go, okay, they're speaking with their behavior. And I have to like, I'm reading you loud and clear that it's time to leave this party. Yeah. You know, like you are telling me, because actually we found this with my son. He would do this thing where he'd be like, I'd be like, you know, if you throw sand at the beach again, we're going to have to go home.

50:10And then it's like, oh, he wants to go home. He wants to go home. He wants to go home. Right, right, right. And actually, because why is he throwing it after we said this? It's like, oh, he didn't know he could just ask to go home. Right. And because he didn't think that he has the power to tell the whole family that we can leave. But he does. He could say like, hey, I'm ready to go. And be like, okay, well, we'll wrap up. He doesn't know how to do that, really. Yeah. And so going like, oh, they're trying to talk to you. They just don't have the words to do that. That's really interesting. And then people are talking to you all the time.

50:39Like, you know, like your spouse isn't being a bitch. She's tired or hungry. Right. Right? Or like the person in front of you is having a hard time. Like they're not a monster. They're just having a hard time. They're not being that way on purpose. They would rather not be this way. Right. You can, it doesn't make it always possible to put up with it, but it makes it easier to put up with. If you have awareness. Yes. Because I think the big thing is that like most of us, a lot of us are living in this place in our head where voluntarily or involuntarily you're not considering any of that you're not considering with your own kids you could be like the fuck would you throw the sand again for you know yeah you're not and then you have to go like oh like you have to take yourself to the place where you go i should be reading behaviors i should be reading the fact that like i met i met up with ryan today and like he was you were acting a certain you were you know whatever like threw a glass on the ground like yeah i should i should read into that there's something that's causing that you know but the fucked up thing is we do it for ourselves we go like i'm not an asshole i'm tired exactly yeah uh but then for other people we're like they're an asshole yes i read this thing one time about um the justice system about how when somebody who's close to you commits a crime but you know them well your wife sure you plead to the court like she should please show mercy because you know this person so well so if it's someone i know and care for treat them this way yes and when it's a stranger you're like fucking drop the hammer on them yeah like put them away forever right yeah so it's like it all depends on your relationship sure to it and like your relationship to yourself obviously you're not closer to anyone so it's always like please have some compassion for what i did yeah i i read about a study one time that was saying like they they could look at judges where they're they're just seeing the same case over and over again so like a traffic court judge or whatever, where it's like they could compare apples to apples.

52:41And the judges were more lenient in the morning and they would get less lenient towards lunch. And then after lunch, they would get lenient again. And then towards the end of the day, just because they're tired and hungry. And you're just like, oh yeah. So we think, you know, we think we have these philosophical principles, these ethics or, you know, these standards we do, but then our biology and our physiology is acting on it at all times. and we're pretty forgiving of ourselves. We go like, I am not a bad person. I just lost my temper in this moment. That was the worst moment of my life. But then other people we see as fixed or conscious or culpable for everything we did.

53:21You knew better. Yes. But you didn't, or they did knew better, but they did it anyway. Just like, you know, you're not supposed to eat donuts, but you passed a donut shop and you bought one. It doesn't say anything about you as a person necessarily. You made it, you made a choice. Yeah. An individual action that doesn't necessarily represent the whole. Yeah. And the other lesson here is to have those, move your court time to 8 a.m. or 1.30, it sounds like, right? Well, and then also probably like rich lawyers know this and they assign like different people. Like what time are we? Let's just reschedule.

53:52Yeah. Like people, there's a whole other level that some people are operating on that you, some clueless guy has never gotten in trouble before. Or ends up with the$11.50 court appearance and does three years in jail because he wasn't afforded the same. So he just wanted a sandwich. Yeah. Well, to go back to that welfare thing we're talking about, the reason poor people eat bad food and they use their SNAP benefits to do it is that, one, they tend to live in food deserts. They don't go to Whole Foods where they're choosing between these things. They go to – they're choosing between 7-Eleven and Food Mart or whatever.

54:30and then also like willpower they tend to think is a finite resource so if if you have to ride the bus to work every day like you're going to be more tired than the person who drives their luxury car to work every day and then when it comes time to choose what they're going to eat for dinner yeah like they're not going to be like i'm going to make something healthy they're like literally just any calories anything just put something in yeah i did love the ted cruz bit though i thought it was amazing oh thanks i can see why you cut it but it was spectacular i like to say you know in that um i say in the bit and i've said it off stage i said it may or may not have been yes yeah the uh member of y 'all kata as they call it great guy yeah the funny thing i'll tell you this funny thing about that bit is um because i i remember you know like we always say that like you know like we all talk about covid right yeah so during the trump years all of us had at least it wasn't necessarily a joke even like like a harsh i hate trump yeah you just talked about him in some way i had a bit that i don't even fully recall i guess how sparingly i did it but i had a bit about him about the person about trump i'm sorry about trump and um and you would find that it would land really well and then you could you could tell that you were in like a red market even though that my point is that even though it wasn't like a sure a harsh bashing trump but it was more like about his personality, his bravado and stuff.

55:58And so, you know, you just kind of, you just register these things in your head. You're like, oh, that told me something. Like I was in Green Bay, I remember. And they were like, they kind of pulled back. I was like, this is a real red market, you know. Fine, kind of move on. It's not even my forte to do. But the funny thing was telling that Ted Cruz bit, you know, it's like a, it's the final thing, the reveal of saying his name. and that shit killed in every market. Yeah. Including in Canada, in Central America, I did it. I did it in Europe. And you're like, this person is loathed universally.

56:34Yeah. And then you kind of go, how does this person get elected? Yeah. Because I'm saying it in every city and everybody is like cheering for this guy being a bad guy in this story. Even the other senators don't like take groups. He's like the least popular singer. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember I asked Al Franken that. He has a good joke about that. He had a really funny bit about it. He was just like, even the shittiest people think he's a piece of shit. He was pretty, yeah, it was pretty great. But yeah, it's funny that someone could be that universally disliked. How do you wake up every day?

57:07I don't know. And I don't even know like. I almost respect it. I do too. It's like, it's almost a version of we're saying like, ignore the, don't read the comments. He has to really be able to be like, nope, I'm right to everyone. It's pretty wild. Yeah, there's like a Michael Scott-ness to it. Yeah. Like you're just the worst. Everyone thinks you're a fool, but there's some part of you that doesn't allow you to realize that or you would change. You're like, I'm pretty great. Well, this is amazing, man. Thank you. This was a lot of fun. I'm sorry that I had to split early. Good. We did a lot. Okay.

57:42Sweet.

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