What Comes After Surviving the Unthinkable | Kyle Carpenter

0:00Ryan Holiday: Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. there's a Emily Dickinson poem where she's talking about the 300 Spartans and she talks about how you're almost ashamed to be alive when you hear about things people have done like that that's sort of how I felt when I was in the room with Kyle Carpenter here's Obama talking about Kyle. The man you see before you today, Corporal William Kyle Carpenter, should not be alive today.

0:50Ryan Holiday: Hand grenades are one of the most awful weapons of war. They only weigh about a pound, but they're packed with TNT. If one lands nearby, you have mere seconds to seek cover. When it detonates, its fragments shoot out in every direction, and even at a distance, that spray of shrapnel can inflict devastating injuries on the human body. Up close, it's almost a certain death. But we are here because this man, this United States Marine, faced down that terrible explosive power, that unforgiving force, with his own body, willingly and deliberately, to protect a fellow Marine. When that grenade exploded, Kyle Carpenter's body took the brunt of the blast.

1:39Ryan Holiday: His injuries were called catastrophic It seemed as if he was going to die While being treated, he went into cardiac arrest And three times he flatlined Three times, doctors brought him back Along with his parents, who call Kyle's survival our miracle We thank God they did Because with that singular act of courage Kyle, you not only saved your brother in arms you displayed a heroism in the blink of an eye that will inspire for generations. Valor worthy of our nation's highest military decoration, the Medal of Honor. That was the day that Kyle was awarded the Medal of Honor, the highest military honor in the United States.

2:24Ryan Holiday: As I said in part one of the episode, back in 2010, Kyle was a 21-year-old Marine on a rooftop in Afghanistan when a grenade landed near him. And instead of running away, he threw himself on top of it, saving his buddy's life and his own. And so in today's episode, this is part two of the episode, Kyle and I talk about resiliency and patriotism and the importance of service. As I said, Kyle is a medically retired United States Marine who received the highest United States military honor, the Medal of Honor in 2010. You can follow him on Instagram at chicksdigscars, that's chick just with a K, C-H-I-K-S, digscars.

3:03Ryan Holiday: And you can grab signed copies of his memoir at the painted porch. By the way, I always try to weave in new stories when I'm doing talks. I just saw Kyle in Austin that day when I was speaking in Austin, and I'm going to be on the road again. I'm going to be in Australia in October. I'm going to be in Minneapolis and Chicago and Detroit. I'm going to be in San Francisco and Portland, taking the whole Daily Daily Stoic show on the road this summer. A couple more dates about to be posted as well. You can grab tickets to that at dailystoiclive.com. And I'd love to see you.

3:50You know, in the beginning, to embrace the unknown allowed me to step onto those yellow footprints at boot camp to try to become a Marine. And really a life of services is, especially in the military, it's kind of like an entire journey, whether that's four years or a whole career of unknown. And then through my recovery and just life in general is, is an unknown journey. You can, you can, you know, prepare yourself. Uh, you can, you can try to, to learn and, and to become resilient throughout the difficult journey. But you never really know what the day or what life in the big picture is going to hold.

4:35But, you know, I joined the Marine Corps to discover who I could really become and who I really was. And they say, be careful what you wish for sometimes.

4:49Ryan Holiday: sometimes but you probably thought that was you were going to find out who that was you know in battle not in a hospital room but one led to the other and that's what i've been thinking about on this book that i'm right now because i'm so i'm writing a book about stockdale and you know stockdale goes to the academy he thinks he's enlisting in world war ii he misses world war ii then he thinks he's going to fight in korea like all his buddies do like hudner wins the Medal of Honor in Korea. I have his orders where he's like begging to be sent to Korea. And they're like, it would be detrimental to your unit if we sent you to Korea.

5:26Ryan Holiday: And so he does. So he keeps thinking that he's missing his moment. Right. Then he goes to test pilot school and he thinks, you know, that's this is my thing. And then, you know, Jaeger breaks the sound barrier. He's not one of those. Then he misses like astronaut school and he thinks he's, you know, So like, yeah, he's like, what? You know, he keeps, but he doesn't know because you can't know that it's actually preparing him for this day in 1965 when he gets shot down. And then he can't even conceive then of what, you know, the next seven years are going to mean. But like, you don't know what life is preparing you for.

6:07Ryan Holiday: All you can really do is be ready for something that you can't even conceive of. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, whether it's through that journey or that moment that you're shot down, you become a POW. You know, I encourage people when I speak or when I have engagements on the road to, you know, embrace that struggle. Yeah. One, I think to be realistic that, you know, life is a very difficult journey at times. Sure. But it's also equally as beautiful. And most importantly, it's worth living and it's worth being here because those moments are impossible to describe how immediately, I won't even say dark, just avoid things become.

7:00But, you know, to know that that life is difficult and when you face that adversity to embrace it.

7:08Ryan Holiday: Yeah. And you really, I mean, in a way, I feel like you don't have another choice. I mean, if you want to sit exactly where you are right now or right in that moment of adversity for the rest of your life, that's really the only other option. But to embrace the struggle and understand that there's always a silver lining. There's always that light at the end of the tunnel. And when you reach that, which, you know, everyone heals in their own time in their own way. So I'm not telling you I'm not one of those that say, oh, just, you know, brush it off, get back up and keep going. I mean, sometimes it takes an entire life to try to continue to get better.

7:49Sometimes it is just inching or crawling forward. But in the right time to know that when you move forward, you hold on those silver linings, you reach that light at the end of the tunnel, you will not only look back and be proud of yourself. you'll realize that the journey was worth it and you will be the strongest more perspective driven more grateful version of yourself and ultimately in that moment you know it's never there's never a finish line but in that moment when you're on the other side you'll realize that you're the best version of yourself and don't you think this is like i think having a physical

8:32Ryan Holiday: practice is a metaphor for that, right? Like every time I run, every time I jump in cold water, every time I lift weights or whatever, I don't want to do it, but I'm glad after that I did it, right? It's the feeling afterward that the shitty part is for. And that, you know, sometimes, and it's not just like, oh, hey, the endorphins, you know, you do the thing and then you get a little rush of endorphins at the end. Sometimes you don't feel anything at the end, but tired, or whatever. But like six months later, when you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you're like, I am in the shape that I want to be, or you have to pick up something heavy and you can pick it up because you did the work.

9:18Ryan Holiday: That's what it is. And yeah, I think that's the metaphor for life is like in the shitty moments. And it's not just in your own life. It's like every relationship has these dips and the good parts in the relationship are never those dips. They're at some point after those dips, if you don't quit and, and just knowing like, yeah, it's, um, you get through the hard thing because of what's on the other side of the hard thing. Absolutely. And, or to, you know, cross that finish line of whatever you're working towards and to know that you stayed consistent and driven and you got out and did the things that you needed to do.

10:02And this is a race or this is an accomplishment in life. Yeah, or rehab or whatever. You stayed on the path and it's okay to veer sometimes, but you stay on the path. You stay, you know, committed to yourself most importantly, and you cross that finish line, whatever that is, I think, uh, you know, it's hard to describe those moments because, you know, they're yours and they're yours alone, but, but, um, you know, to look back and for me, one of the most pivotal moments aside from going with a big group of wonder warriors to jump out of a, a good airplane when, when we were in the hospital together, uh, which, which, you know, brought great value.

10:47Um, you know, cause my once non-existent beating heart, you know, was beating and I realized that I was still, I still had a lot of surgeries left. I was still extremely banged up. My arms didn't work. I didn't have any teeth, but to have gone skydiving that time in the hospital, you know, you went skydiving while you're still in the hospital. Like they took you guys, me and my buddies had to get our doctors to sign permissions lists. Uh, I think I told my after. But yeah, I mean, it's crazy. The doctors will say, well, if it doesn't injure you any further, hopefully, and you are X amount of time, you know, away from a surgery and it's going to be good for your spirits, then you can do it.

11:32And so we went skydiving and it just, it was one of those pivotal moments that just showed me and kind of re-energized me that, hey, might be a little banged up, but I'm still here. I still have life and, you know, I can still get after it like a Marine in a way. But it really was when I crossed the finish line in my first marathon. Yeah. It was a very emotional moment because I had set that goal of a marathon when I had just come off the ventilator. I couldn't do anything on my own. I mean, I needed a team of six to eight people. They had to make an announcement on the floor for people to come hold all my tubes and help me just go to the bathroom in bed.

12:17And so laying there in the bed and thinking to yourself, which is pretty much all you can do in the state that I was in. But I thought, you know, what is something that down the road I could attempt or if accomplished that would show me that I wasn't just still here. I wasn't just still Kyle, but somehow it showed me that I was actually better and stronger than I was before. And I thought, well, you know, I've never ran a marathon before. And as comical and unrealistic as it seemed at the time, you know, I'd already realized that if I could sit up in bed, which is a monumental task after you've been unconscious and your body's been atrophying for five weeks.

13:03But I realized if I could sit up in bed, I could work on hanging my feet off the edge. If I could hang my feet off the edge, I could work on standing. If I could stand, I could take a single step. If I could take a single step, I could walk. If I could walk, I could run. And maybe one day I could attempt that marathon. And so when I crossed the finish line, so I ran the marathon in October and I medically retired and left the hospital that July. So just a few months later, safe to say I might still be recovering from that a little. From the verify? Almost 10 years later. But when I crossed that finish line, all I could think about, cameras everywhere and millions of people and so much noise.

13:49But all I could really think about in the place that I was in was that hospital bed. Yeah. And I had proved to myself that I did it. And I remembered all of the surgeries and all of the therapy and all of the believing and hoping and kind of persistence through therapy every day that allowed me to be in that moment. And beyond that, all of the people that helped me, those that resuscitated me off the battlefield and throughout the hospitals, because I was resuscitated three times by the time I got to Walter Reed.

14:24Ryan Holiday: And think even of the people who invented the technologies that made those things possible. Like, like, it's not just like, oh, hey, all the doctors you personally met, but just think about every person, all the trial and error, the people who didn't make it, you know, that made it possible. So at that moment, when it happened to you, they weren't like, this is the end of the story. Yeah. And so not only just for me personally, that moment, but as time has gone on, I realized that from the moment I crossed that finish line for the rest of my life, and it doesn't have to be a marathon, but for the rest of my life, I realized after the fact that now I can tell people, you can do it.

15:09Right. And it's not because it sounds good or I read it in a book. I'm telling you because I know you can because I did it. Yeah. And that that was just a very powerful and kind of pivotal moment in my journey.

15:24Ryan Holiday: You know, when you do hard things, one of the things you take out of them is you're now you have evidence, not just belief, you have evidence that you're a person who can do hard things. And that that's a huge gift. Because life is one thing we know for certain is there will be more hard things in the future, big and small, but it's not going to go the way we want. And there's going to be moments just like you experience in a marathon where you're like, is this worth continuing? Is it possible? You know, like, why does this suck so bad? You know, you have all those feelings and then you realize, oh, yeah, mostly what you do is don't listen to those feelings.

16:02Ryan Holiday: Like, that's the main muscle you're building. Like, you're obviously building muscles in your legs and arms when you run. But I think you're mainly listening. You're mainly developing the muscle that decides who's in charge. like Seneca's is we treat the body rigorously so that it's not disobedient to the mind you're it's like no no I decide and I imagine those muscles were already pretty good for you as you went through the process of becoming a marine because that's mostly what they're teaching you is like you can do real hard shit and uh look at where you were when you started look at where you are now that's proof of concept but yeah every time how powerful the mind is yeah I think uh yeah Yeah, that's important to understand that your mind is infinitely, it can be.

16:49Yeah. Now, again, you have to work on it and it's a deliberate effort, but it can be stronger and more resilient than you could ever imagine. Yeah. And it can carry the body and impact your journey of life. It can also be a doom loop.

17:09Ryan Holiday: You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. And it can be a doom loop because you're making the wrong choices and you haven't learned the right lessons, you know, can also be a doom loop because it's medically, you know, malformed and it needs to be treated. You know what I mean? Like that's that's the other thing is it's like your mind is your friend and it's also your worst enemy and knowing when knowing when to trust it and knowing when to be like, not only can I not trust it, I need to get help. Yeah. Because I need to get something between me and these thoughts, whether it's a journal, whether it's asking someone for help or it's like, no, no, no, no.

17:49Ryan Holiday: I need like medical intervention right now. And that's all that is kind of the same. It's the same process, actually. And it's weird that we don't celebrate that as an act of courage. also like there's a there's a line of meditations which whenever i do military talks i always bring up because it's one of the only instances where mark's really is who was a soldier specifically talks about fighting he says you know we're he says we're like soldiers storming a wall he says if you've fallen and you have to ask a comrade for help so what i love i think that so what line is fucking perfect because it's like when people ask us for help like if your friend comes to you and says, I need help.

18:34Ryan Holiday: You're not like, what a fucking pussy. You're like, dude, thanks. You know, I would love to help. Like you're like genuinely. And then we're struggling or we have doubts or we need help. And we're like, I don't want to bother anyone, you know, or I don't want them to look that way. I mean, even though we know objectively, that's not what their reaction is going to be. Exactly. Yeah. No, well said. And I mean, coming from the military culture, I mean, I guess I understand the toughness on ask for help, all of that, but coming from the patient and just human side of me, it is difficult to understand because everyone, if you are alive, you know that life is hard.

19:21If you are alive, no matter who you are, where you're at in life, someone has helped picked you up when you've stumbled.

19:29Ryan Holiday: Yeah. And everyone knowing how difficult life is at times, the adversity that everyone faces, it's the most understandable thing to need or ask for help. Well, there's almost a selfishness to it, right? To not do it. It's like, this is their job. Their job, like you probably, maybe you picked this up in the hospital where it's like, their job is to get you what you need. And actually you're harming yourself and them by not telling them what's going, you know, like there's this instinct, the shame where we hide or we go, oh, it's good or I'm okay. And it's like, you're fucking things up, you know, like, like, and also if you take it, which I think we should, that we are, we have important work to do or an important part of the team, you know, that we have important contributions we can make by not getting better faster, by not, asking for the help by not getting back to full strength, you're like depriving the world of yourself.

20:32Ryan Holiday: There's a way you could look at it. It's like, oh, this thing isn't like, oh, I'm, I'm being tough and I'm just going to do this on my own. By doing it on your own, you're actually acting in a selfish, destructive way because you're not able to do what you should be doing. Yeah, very true. And a disservice to not just yourself, but whether it's those wanting to help you, whether your family needs you to be better for them. If you are a teacher or you have influence over others or you're in charge of others in the workplace, it's not just you to get to think outside of yourself, there is a lot of things and a lot of people that you affect.

21:19And so it's just, you know, that's why I say struggle should never be compared. And, you know, it's okay to struggle. I mean, it's normal to struggle. Everyone has since the beginning of time, you know, all the way back to the caveman banging rocks together, struggling to get a fire going. And the world is a very daunting and complex and scary place to add to your own journey and your own struggles. So, yeah, I'm so glad this came up because, you know, if you're struggling in whatever way, whether it's asking just a friend or being, I think it's important to spend time talking to yourself, which sometimes people look at me like, okay, This is kind of lost it, but, you know, to spend deliberate time to five minutes to talk to yourself.

22:13So you so you always are able to, as you said earlier, say, hey, this is just a tough day or this is temporary adversity that I know that I need whether you do it or not. But these are the things that I probably need to do to get back on track or to get better or to say, hey, I'm feeling like I'm in a place I've never really felt before. Or I'm feeling like it's getting a little more difficult to crawl out of this space that I'm in. and then understanding that, okay, this is different and maybe I do need, you know, to bring in a little bit bigger guns here to help me out.

23:04Ryan Holiday: Yeah, right. Yeah, you wouldn't feel guilty calling in air support or something if that's what the battle demanded, right? That's what they're there for. And they're fucking raring to go. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then for some reason in life we're like, Like someone went to school to help you with this thing that you're like, I don't want to bother. It's crazy. It is. But, you know, it's a journey. And thankfully, you know, there are voices out there. And I try to do my little part where I can. But just that I think it's, you know, up to those struggling, just like military veterans and civilians.

23:49There is that gap of lack of understanding. And I tell veterans, it's just as much up to us to educate the public and it's just as much up to the public to want to understand who we are and what we do and where we come from. so you know it's up to you to get help but all those voices that are you know in a good place in life or have gotten through that those tough times that understand you know to continue to put the word out there that you know it's okay to be down and out it's okay to get that help but like like so many things you know it's a team effort

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27:05Ryan Holiday: There's different kinds of courage, right? We celebrate physical courage, you know? That's what the Medal of Honor, that's what the Flying Cross is about. That's what most of the awards are. But I think about, right, so Tom Hudner wins the Medal of Honor for trying to save his friend Jesse Brown. I think of the moral courage to be the first black aviator in the Navy that doesn't want you. Oh, unfathomable. Right. And so that distinction between the physical and the moral courage, it's also at the same level, it's like putting your ass on the line, you know, at the same level, it's like putting yourself out there in a deeply uncomfortable, at times dangerous situation where you don't know what the outcome is going to be.

27:49Ryan Holiday: Because it's not like, you know, I think that's something that we lie to ourselves about when we tell our history. We go like, you know, Jackie Robinson or Jesse Brown or Wes Brown is the first graduate of the Naval Academy. They weren't the first ones to try. You know what I mean? Like they were just the first ones who didn't get kicked out or driven out or intimidated out. So like the courage is not just the moral courage. It's also the physical courage and the physical self-mastery. These were, this is a dangerous thing that they did. And it was, again, not a thing in a moment, but a day-to-day showing up must have been incredible.

28:35Ryan Holiday: Just as you said, unfathomable is really the only word for it. Yeah, I mean, to know, just to make it to that point, to become that aviator, that graduate. it, you know, you go back even further than that to just continue to survive. Yeah. Imagine dying for a country where you are legally not allowed to ride its buses or vote in its elections. Like the courage and faith and commitment is unfathomable. Again, the only word. Yeah. And just one of the many things that I guess makes me so patriotic is knowing those that went through all of that and still serve the country. It's just, it's, you got treated so terribly, but you still were willing to raise your right hand for a country that didn't see your value yet.

29:35Ryan Holiday: Yeah. In a way you believed in the country more than everyone else. Than itself. Yeah. But even when people weren't around you, giving you a hard time or making life difficult for you or making you feel devalued, even when you're on your own by yourself to know what you're going to have to make it through that next day. Yeah. And that next day. And that's on top of how scary it is to land on an aircraft carrier in a prop plane. I mean. You know, like just the weight on top of the weight that's already, the white guys are also like, you know, dealing with butterflies every fucking day. So then you put on top of that, they don't want me and they might not be helping me when I need it.

30:24Ryan Holiday: They, you know, like I'm, I have to sleep with one eye open. It's insane. So like you were saying earlier, just, uh, not exactly the same, but the journey of, you know, persevering until that moment where It's just this amazing and powerful moment for yourself, but also all that came before you and everything you and those, you know, whether it's of your skin color, your culture, your family, you know, those that are the first to graduate from their family who it's not that their parents. I was in the Marines with guys that first generation American and it's not that their parents would have gone to school or they didn't want to But they worked 15 hours a day every single day hard physical labor for their entire lives Just to hopefully that next generation or their children to be able to have that moment and Just like those moments on the roof, you know, everyone obviously talks to me and interviews me and documents my story, but that moment and my ceremony in DC, all cameras are on me, but it's really a moment.

31:43It was a moment for us all. And the Medal of Honor, it just represents, it's a very heavy and beautiful burden because it represents so much. It represents generations Generations of courage and sacrifice. It represents those that not only never made it home, but those that are still guarded today at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Those Marines that were on the ground with me in Afghanistan, the children that were killed from trying to learn how to read. They got caught learning, trying to learn how to read. And the next day they were killed and thrown and discarded on the side of the road in a dried out river canal.

32:30It represents ideals.

32:31Ryan Holiday: Yeah. Do you know what Truman would say when he would give a soldier the Medal of Honor? Because he gives it to Hudner. No. He would say, I would rather be getting this medal than be the one giving it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he would rather be the soldier who won the Medal of Honor than the president who got to give it. and uh which is obviously an incredible thing to say and i think goes to your point about like what actually represents the best you know is it the highest office or is it someone who lived up to the ideals and then famously like congress you know knows about this and towards the end of his presidency there was this movement to to see if there was a way to give truman the medal of honor because he had served in world war one and he finds out about this and he's like absolutely fucking not.

33:16Ryan Holiday: You know, he's like, I have done nothing to deserve it, even though, you know, he famously had done quite a lot as president. But he was like, he believed in it so much that the idea that they would be bending the rules or making an exception or devaluing the thing to make a political statement, he was just like, absolutely not. Even though at some level, he probably wanted it more than anything. I just think that's so perfect. Yeah. So what is the life been like for you now? I mean, on some level, I'm sure you wake up, you're grateful, and then you're also like, and what am I going to do today?

33:53Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone else, it's still an ongoing experiment and figuring it out. But, you know, I can't say one specific thing that I do all the time.

34:05Ryan Holiday: I mean, the thing you wanted to do really badly, you can't do that anymore. That is correct. I think that's the beautiful thing about service and just wanting to make a positive impact on people around you in the world. That can happen in an unlimited number of ways. And so, you know, whether you're just, you know, the average person out there or a veteran going through transition, there is always a next chapter and another path. I think sometimes it's just spending that time with yourself, thinking about things deeply, and you don't have to have the perfect plan, but just narrowing down, you know, whether it's what are my interests, how do I want to help, How do I want to make an impact?

35:01And so, you know, professionally, a lot of what I do now is public motivational speaking, which was completely unexpected. You weren't planning to do that at 21? Absolutely not. If I had to say, I probably would have stayed in an entire career. I was kind of already thinking about what I wanted to do next in the Marines. But at first, my first group that I ever spoke to was about 12 elementary school kids in a Sunday school class. It's a little foggy. I was still super medicated. I mean, it was early on in my journey. Kids are great, though. I love kids. As you know, they ask everything they're probably not supposed to.

35:44So the teachers would say, hey, don't talk about this and this. and all the hands go up and that's all they want to know. But, you know, I enjoyed it. It was just kind of got me out of the hospital at the time. And, you know, for many years, I didn't even understand or I didn't even realize that I had a platform or a story that I could use to help other people.

36:11Ryan Holiday: Right. It was just like you said, I was figuring it out. I was trying to heal and and figure out this new body that I had. And so the engagements were very small, more local at first to South Carolina, which I recovered in DC, but I kind of went home back and forth depending on where I was at in my surgeries. You know, years later, it was a local Rotary Club. And at some point along the way, I just, I realized, you know, maybe there's something here. You know, people would share their stories of adversity with me. And, you know, it was a journey and it was an evolution. And sometimes it was getting off stage.

36:57And for many years, I just winged it, which drove my parents crazy. They're like, what, you're going to go up and just not have anything? I guess. Like, I don't even really know what I'm doing here. But as time went on, you know, I would get off stage and I would say, oh, well, you know, no one really knows what a fire team is or a squad. So now maybe you should just say team. And I slowly started to kind of bridge that gap and the verbiage between military and civilian. And then I had a few encounters where just light bulb moments where, you know, I get off stage and people would say, well, I was never in the military.

37:37but, and then proceed to tell me their own version of struggle. Right. That's when I realized like, whether it's my book or speaking, although I got injured by a hand grenade, no matter where we come from or what knocks us down as human beings, the feelings that follow are universal. Everyone knows what it feels like to be knocked down, to have those moments of victory, happiness, hopelessness, sadness. And so that kind of really started the journey of being deliberate with my message, my intentions and what I wanted to get across to. You know, I try to never do the same thing twice. Every group, every person is different.

38:20And so that's how I tried to approach things. But, you know, other things, whether it's serving on the board of different various nonprofits from mental health to wake surfing, which do kind of bleed over. You know, wake surfing is maybe a little selfish because I do love to wake surf, but whether it's boards, whether it's just taking five minutes to spend with a veteran, no matter what it is, going back to that world of an unknown that I was living in in the hospital, I just try to focus on the time that I have and the overall impact that I can make. So I don't know exactly what's going to come my way.

39:02I don't ever want to just be this one thing. And kind of all those things combined, I've just settled on, hey, life is a crazy, unexpected and beautiful journey. I don't know exactly what I'm going to get into, good or bad. All I know is that I want to make the greatest impact on the world that I can with the time that I have. You know, as kind of wide ranging and vague as that is, Because it also allows me to be focused enough to, if I have 10 things in front of me and I can only do two or three, to say, hey, I'm going to do these three things because I feel like that's where I can bring the most value.

39:47Ryan Holiday: If you've got a mission, you know what aligns with it and what doesn't. Yep, or make the most impact. And a lot of what I do and my fellow recipients do is it's rarely individual endeavors. Yeah, sure. It's more being force multipliers for good organizations or people, causes, or companies that are out there already doing great things. Sure. And that it's not make or break whether we help or not. You know, they still got their thing going on and they're doing a great job. But if we can get up there and say, hey, whether it's, you know, hiring these veterans or giving to this organization or, hey, just just do the right thing in the moment, you know, just to spread that positive impact, that hope.

40:38And to remind people that, you know, this country, although it's like no country, it's not perfect. It's an ongoing experiment that, you know, freedom is a powerful. It's worth it to go to your book. And a beautiful thing. Yep. It is worth it. And people that are listening and all the people out there, no matter who you are, where you come from, what you believe in that, you know, you are worth it and you're worth serving and sacrificing for and spending years in a hospital bed. And like I said, my book, you know, Deep Scars on Our Body, because these ideals that built this country that gave us the foundation we have and that allow us to continue that pursuit of trying to always, you know, just like in my recovery, even though sometimes it can feel like inching forward that, you know, we are always trying to get a little bit better.

41:40Ryan Holiday: And look, sometimes there's setbacks. Sometimes you go in the wrong direction and then you got to get your, it's not, it's not a line like this. Yep. And you don't have to read much history to know that 1776 to now has not been this. Maybe if you zoom out long enough, it gets rid of the moments like this, but it was a pretty squiggly line. Yep. But I think through those, just to hold on to the hope and optimism that if we continue to try to stay on that path, to try to stick together, because it might be, you know, people tell me sometimes that I'm optimistic to a fault. And I understand that.

42:24Sometimes maybe it can be seen as a weakness or naive, and I'm not naive, but I will always believe that there is more good than bad.

42:37Ryan Holiday: I think that's a lovely place to stop. You want to go check out some books in the bookstore? Oh, yeah, for sure. Let's do it.

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