Why Bert Kreischer Thinks He Needs a Stoic Coach

0:00Ryan Holiday: Shopping at Whole Foods is one of the things I do in our family. Like the grocery shopping is my job. So I was glad to be able to do that even on vacation. And then, you know, being here in Hawaii, it was the same Whole Foods experience we're thinking about. But then also a bunch of regional stuff, too, that they only have at this Whole Foods. We love shopping at Whole Foods because there's always new flavors and foods to choose from whichever Whole Foods you are like, whichever Whole Foods you happen to be at. So save on regional flavors at Whole Foods Market, and maybe I'll see you at the Whole Foods in Austin sometime.

0:35Ryan Holiday: Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, designed to help bring those four key stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom into the real world.

0:49Ryan Holiday: Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. You know, it's hard to put stuff out in the world, right? You work really hard on something, then you put it out there and then other people get a say, right? They decide whether they're going to laugh at the joke or not. They decide whether they're going to buy the thing you're selling or not. They decide whether to vote for you. And that's really hard, right? In a way, it challenges one of the most important principles in stoicism, which is to not care about things that are not in your control. And that is outside your control.

1:21Ryan Holiday: And yet you can't do your job well or be compensated for that job if you can't figure out a way to both care and not care. I don't know. It's a challenge. So when I had Bert Kreischer on the podcast, this is one of the things we talked about because his new show, Free Bert, had just come out. Like I heard him walk in. I was sitting in the back of the studio working on something. I heard him come in and he was just hearing from like people on his team about where it had landed, like how it was doing on Netflix, because Netflix in real time is showing like what the most popular stuff is. Right. In some ways, Netflix is a black box.

1:57Ryan Holiday: They don't tell you exactly how many downloads or how something's doing. Like with Amazon, you know, there's a ranking and you obviously want to do well on that ranking. It's really challenging, right? It makes you vulnerable. Even if you think what you did is awesome, well, now there's a big thumbs up or a big thumbs down telling you whether that's true or not. So that was something we talked about on the episode. This is part two. And he had just found out that he had debuted at number two, which was well-deserved because it's a great show. Samantha and I watched all six episodes. I thought it was really funny.

2:28Ryan Holiday: And in part two of my interview with Burt. We talk about why he wants a Seneca in his life, his definition of success, his current sobriety, and as we were just talking about, not letting other people's opinions determine your mood or your sense of whether you did a good job or not. And of course, he tells some insane stories. If you didn't listen to part one, you should. You could start with that. But Burt Kreischer is a stand-up comedian and actor. He's the host of Two Bears, One Cave. You can watch his movie The Machine on Netflix and then his new show Free Burt. He is a touring stand-up comic who sells out arenas all over the world.

3:09Ryan Holiday: Not only was Burt hilarious, but he was super nice. He invited everyone on the Daily Stoic and Painted Porch team to come see his show. A bunch of the people went and they said it was hilarious. He let them come backstage after, invited them to the after party. I had to leave to go pick up my son from school right after the interview. and he shot the shit with Samantha and everyone. He said, you got to talk to my wife. And the next thing you know, she's FaceTiming with Leigh-Anne. He is just a incredibly sweet and kind human being. I asked Whitney Cummings what I should ask Bert. And she just said, like, Bert's got it all figured out.

3:43Ryan Holiday: He's just winning. Not just he's successful, but he like is in a loving marriage and has a great relationship with his kids. She's like, he did it. That was totally the vibe I got. I think that's the vibe you're going to get. Even if you're not a fan of his comedy, I think you're really going to like this episode because you just get a glimpse into who he is. And I like what I saw. You can follow Burt on all platforms at Burt Kreischer. You can watch free Burt on Netflix. And I hope you like this episode. Enjoy.

4:12How do we get Seneca's in our lives? Oh, an advisor? I would love, like right now I've got a personal trainer and an assistant. Yeah. Okay. And all we do is giggle and just fuck around.

4:23Ryan Holiday: But I would love like, I would love like a 70 year old man. I was thinking about this. Like, I'm not like an addict. I have some addictive tendencies, but I was like, I'm really jealous of people who are in recovery who have sponsors. Like someone you call before you do something dumb, you know, or just like, I mean, I just had a shitty day. I'm thinking about, you know, what do I, it would be wonderful to have a sponsor. That should be a concept we have. I mean, ideally your parents are this or your grandparents are this, but not everyone gets that deck of cards. So at a certain point is like, you know, they can't understand because you're doing dealing with things that they've never dealt with.

4:57I'm always jealous of people that go into rehab. I would love to go into rehab just three months. You can go. I can't. I got too much shit going on.

5:04Ryan Holiday: Maybe that's your addiction. The work. Yeah. You can't take. I think about this. I did a thing once I went to a it's not a rehab, but it is a rehab. But they have a thing you go for like a week and you just work on all this stuff. You go through the program, but not the addictive part. And it was just like the amount of work I had to do to get seven days in a row off my schedule was like, oh, I do have a problem. Like, oh, yeah, you know, it's like what? Because it's something to think. It's like you have all this success. You have money. You have theoretically you have power or and then you're like, but actually you have no power because your calendar is in charge.

5:40I'm on the road for 25 days straight, like every day for 25 days straight. And then I'm on the road touring for nine weeks straight. and I only have like a couple days here and there to get back. And a lot of times like this week, I'm just going to drive to Alabama because I'm like, you know, screw it. It's easier to stay in the bus than to fly home on Sunday or fly home Monday to come home to go back on the road Wednesday. You're like, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. And your kids are out of the house. My kids are in college and it's just me and my wife. But at the same time I go, like I had a buddy that went to rehab and it was like perfect timing.

6:13It was so great. and he came back and he was so grounded.

6:17Ryan Holiday: I was talking to Matt Berninger, that he's the lead singer of The National and he was saying like, you know, you think like a week will be a vacation and then he was like, it was only in the pandemic where it was like, he started calming down like six months in. Yeah. Like you think you can get restored or relaxed or back, you know, with taking a couple of days off and then you're not even close. You haven't even begun to start winding down. I remember on the ride back from the pandemic, we were in New Orleans and we were driving back. And I had said, I had been in D.C. the weekend before and I was partying.

6:55Oh, like to go into the lockdowns? To go into the lockdowns. We were in D.C. We were doing D.C., Boston, dot, dot, dot. And then we went to New Orleans. And in D.C., I was partying in the mornings doing a radio show. And I knew I was partying that night. And I knew that we were going out and we were pulling all nighter and going to Boston. And then, and I said casually to my, you know, laying in my bus, I was like, I was like, God, I need like a break. Like if you can give me like just, I don't know how it's going to happen. And I'd said like, give me a TV show or something or like a movie or something to slow me down.

7:25Yeah. Because the road's killing me. And then the next weekend, the pandemic hit and they're like, yo, you got to drive back to LA. And on the ride back, I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to stop drinking. When I get home, I'm not drinking through this as long as this lasts. I didn't know it was going to be that long. Yeah. Seven days in, I've never to this day done this. Seven days in, I fell asleep in a hammock. And I, in my backyard, in a hammock. And I woke up and I went, and I didn't have any thoughts. Yeah. I didn't have any fears. I didn't have like, oh, I'm late for this. It was the craziest fucking feeling.

7:57I know. But anytime I quit drinking, like I'm not drinking now. And anytime I quit drinking, I literally, I'm like amazed at how easier life is. Sure. Like I went to bed the other night. I had press at like six in the morning and I'm in New York and the national championships game is on and it's a great one. And it's now midnight, 1230. And I'm like, God dang it. So I got drinking brain in my head and I'm like, I'm going to be a mess tomorrow. I go to sleep, I wake up at six. You know, I was like, I feel great. Right. I was like, wow, this is why do I, you know, and they all have dreams about drinking and think I'm going to be hung over.

8:28And then I wake up and I'm like, ah, that was a dream.

8:30Ryan Holiday: Actually. Okay. Look, I got a quote that relates to this. I wanted to, I'm going to give you this quote. You tell me what you think of it. Okay. If you accomplish something good with hard work, the labor passes quickly, but the good endures. If you do something shameful in the pursuit of pleasure, the pleasure passes quickly, but the shame endures. Oh, I just think about jack shacks. Can I imagine those dudes who go to jack shacks and they're like, just like, you know, like a massage parlor where they get jerked off? I have a friend. I had a friend who was married and had kids and he was just, he was addicted to jack shacks.

9:01Jesus. And he was like, he was like, it's crazy. Like all the feelings going in are so great. And it's like my heart's racing in this and that. And then the second I come, I am filled with shame. And I'm like, that's why I don't go.

9:13Ryan Holiday: We think about like, it's going to be fun to go out drinking. And so that's like the pleasure part. Yeah. And then it's like the hangover the next day. That's a different person. Like it's not all part of the same. Like if you had to, you take the pleasure and then you put the afterward feeling on top. It balance, you're like, oh, this probably isn't worth it. But when you separate the two, you're able to rationalize it to yourself. No, not me. So, okay. So I'll tell you the difference I have. So I'm very punitive. Okay. So, and I love to close a bar at fucking 3.30 in New York City. I love to close a bar at 4.30 and see the lights starting to change up in the sky.

9:51I love that feeling. I love. It's my worst nightmare. Are you serious? Yeah. I don't even want to be up till midnight. Okay. I love the feeling of getting after it. I love when someone goes, are you going to have one more? And then you go, yeah. Or when you get there and you're like, do you want a drink? And then you watch the room crumble and everyone's like, are you going to get one? And then you start seeing everyone's, I'll get one, I'll get one. And then you get lit. I love that feeling. Now, here's the problem with me. And this is, I think, I know for a fact what I'm dealing with in my head right now, because this sobriety is very different than any sobriety.

10:28It is a health-induced sobriety. it is like yo we had a health scare you got to be on these pills and you can't drink on these pills and for for six months and so i had to look at that as a very different beast usually i get sober for a month and i'm like great i feel great let's get back after it yeah three months great let's get out you know so i had to think i had to think more long term about this but the problem is i love closing it down but i also love getting up a little hungover with my my brain thing a little sideways. This is why I had a problem with the Hemingway quote. It's a little sideways, getting a cup of coffee, getting in the gym, murdering in the gym at like 8 a.m., 10 a.m., and then that endorphin rush that I have through the whole day is crazy.

11:10The problem is, if I can get rid of any part, it's not that morning tax that everyone feels like they pay, and it's not that I'm out too late they pay. It would be 5 o 'clock, what I call the witching hour. At 5 o 'clock - The next day or the - In between days. Okay. Every day at five o 'clock, I have this feeling of like, it's almost like a hopeful, like, what are we doing tonight? Like, where's the adventure at tonight? Yeah. Who wants to have a drink? Like that energy of five o 'clock, usually when I'm not drinking, I just am very mindful of busying myself in the witching hour.

11:45Ryan Holiday: Yeah. So stand up is really great. Like if I do stand up, I don't drink. I would never drink until 930 at night. Yeah. But that witching hour, that's where it's tough for me. Waking up, I have no problem waking up hungover. As a matter of fact, I would argue it's my superpower, is that I can wake up hungover as fuck, go to the gym, kill it. I mean, kill it. And then after I do, the endorphins that hit me, cold plunge, sauna, are like through the roof. I feel better after that than I do waking up sober. That's the truth. Even if you do all, like, so if you woke up, you're stone-cold sober, you work out, you do all this stuff, you have a great creative, you think you're worse off if you haven't drank?

12:24Sometimes you wake up when you don't drink and you didn't sleep well, but you have no excuse. Right. And you're tired, but there's no reason you're tired. And then you're like, oh, all right, let's just start. And then if you're on blood thinners, not supposed to have coffee. So you're like, I guess I don't get coffee. Right. I will tell you the one difference. And I'm journaling about this now. I started in my 53, 53, I decided I would journal.

12:48Ryan Holiday: Okay. Because I wanted to have more original thoughts. I woke up national championship, 6.30 call time. I woke up a little early and I was going to go work out. And I went to the gym. I was very tired and I was at the gym and I was like, I feel good, but I'm like, I don't want to work out. I go to the gym and it's packed because it's fucking 20 degrees in New York. And then I decided to go for a walk in Central Park. Here's the difference. And I saw this. When you're sober and you've been sober for a week, couple weeks, few weeks, the blinders open up. Yeah. When you're hungover, you do get blinders.

13:19And I watched a dude with blinders just smoking a cigarette, trying to get his dog to take a shit in the snow. And he was like, and you could tell his world was right here. He had been out all night. He was like, come on, booty. Let's go. Come on. God damn it. Shit already. All right. And he's smoking a cigarette and he's cold. He doesn't have gloves on. No coffee yet. And he's like, God damn it. And he just wants to go back to bed because his blinders are here. And I'm, you know, I'm sober. I feel great. I got a new lease on life. I'm healthy right now. and all of a sudden my blinders are out here and I'm seeing the trees and I'm seeing the rocks and I'm going like, I'm shooting like videos to my daughters.

13:53I'm sending videos to my daughters about like, yo, I just want you to know how happy I am. That seems better. It is better, but you know, I mean, you look at like people with depression and you're like, they're not drinking. Maybe they are. Maybe they are, I don't know. I know, but I think I'm a little bit of a different, I feel like I'd beat myself up in the morning if I've been drinking and I go, let's get after it. Let's get in the gym, let's push it. Let's see how hard we can go.

14:14Ryan Holiday: You have like this kind of like, Like Dr. Drew said to me when he called it exercise bulimia, where you eat bad and then you work out. Yeah. My sister called it hypogymnasia. She's like, you go to the gym too much. You're going to the gym because if you don't punish yourself as much, you don't have to work out as hard. Yes. And I was like, yeah, but I don't think sober I work out as hard as I do hungover. Sure. Yeah. So maybe it's like that little bit of shame is kind of like an edge for you and it makes you feel a little bit alive. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing like getting up and going like, you piece of shit.

14:48You earned this. You wanted to be out last night. You earned this. No, no, no, no, no, no. You want to be the fun boy. You want to be the party boy. That's great. That's great. But you're not going to be the fucking joke. You get in the gym. You sweat this out. And that first second you feel sweat.

15:02Ryan Holiday: I like that feeling where it's like right before you sweat and you feel like you're like a little bit all clogged up and then it breaks. It breaks, dude. I hate stretching and I will, I will lean into a stretch and go like, Like we do shoulder taps every morning and I'm doing shoulder taps going like this, going like, if I go slower, the sweat starts sooner. Yeah. And I love that feeling of the first sweat. And I love my favorite feeling of any workout is when you finish and you lay down on the floor and you just, I love that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I went to the gym yesterday. I don't do a lot of gym stuff.

15:34Ryan Holiday: I usually just run or swim. It was a good workout. But then I was like, I still have to do the cardio thing to get that feeling. Yeah. Where I'm not like even. when I hung over you, the sweat kicks in so quick. That's true. That's true.

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18:18What does a day of yours look like? Do you read at night? Yeah, I usually read before bed. Really? Like my manager? The show just came out. Everyone's trying to talk to me.

18:27Ryan Holiday: I know that feeling very... I was going to ask you about that. Like, you know that feeling? I think about it. It's positive and negative. if it's like you have a day where you crush it or the day that's bad. And it's like, I try to go like, am I going to waste this entire day, either like doom scrolling or celebrating, or am I going to tune it out and just like for, for book publishing, the sales are basically Sunday to Sunday, but then you don't find out whether you hit, where you hit the New York times list until Wednesday. And so I go like, I'm not going to fucking waste Wednesday or two. You know what I mean?

18:55Ryan Holiday: Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to have an unproductive day because I'm waiting around for news or I get the news and then I spend all day celebrating or I get the bad news and I spend all day like, you know, how the fuck, you know, that's really funny. I was thinking about that because I was like, well, tomorrow's either going to be a good day or bad day. Yeah. But I'm thinking about that last night. Yeah. And I'm listening to you talking about stoicism. And in this stoicism conversation, I heard the boxer slept 11 hours. Yes. And 11 and a half hours right before his fight. And then he slept four hours before.

19:27Floyd Patterson. Yeah. Yeah. Floyd Patterson. Yes. And I know that at like probably what, three in the morning, uh, Netflix will get numbers for in the morning, five in the morning, whenever it's like six in the morning, whenever they get numbers. And I know that they're going to text me, not numbers, but they're going to text me where I land on the chart. And I was in my head, I was like, I'm doing negotiations in my head. I'm like, all right, if, if free Bert gets in the top 10 breaks, top 10 trending, that's a win. That let's just leave it at that. That's a win. And I go, what if it doesn't get in the top 10?

19:53And I was like don't don't think like that it's gonna get in the top 10 it's gotta get in the top 10 right and then i was like but i don't know look at the top 10 there's a lot of big ones his and her is like the hottest show right now and i'm like okay stop so it's not going number one we get that but like where are we gonna go i go if it gets to number six that's a win i go if it got to number like four there's i mean look it's got america's got talent or whatever the big uh star search just came out and all i go all right stop all this unless this i go the stoic just goes to bed yeah

20:19Ryan Holiday: And this talk doesn't worry about it. One of my proudest accomplishments is not the first time I hit number one on New York Times. I remember I was in L.A. doing press. This is when Stillness was coming out. And I was staying at the Los Angeles Athletic Club, which is one of my favorite places to stay because they have this amazing swimming pool. And I get up because it's West Coast. So the news is on the East Coast. So I get up, even though I'm getting up early, they have the news. And I can see there's just like, you know, my alarm goes on my phone. I can see just a bunch of texts. And I go, OK, so this is either good news or bad news, right?

20:47Ryan Holiday: It's my agent either being like, you did it. It's amazing. Or like, don't worry about it. You just get, you know, like it's about the, it's about, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a marathon, not a sprint. The fuck it is. Yeah. And I was like, you know what? But the marathon isn't at the back. I was like, I'm going to, I was like, I'm going to wake up. I'm going to go swimming. I'm going to do my journaling. Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is crazy talk to me. Keep going. I was like, I'm going to, I was like, I'm going to do my normal routine as if I don't like news good or bad. I'm going to do the routine and then have a good morning.

21:21Ryan Holiday: And then that way, whether the news is good or bad, I've had a good morning. And I'm like prouder of the discipline to do that than the discipline to it. That was my first time hitting number one. So the news was good. But I'm actually like I think back. I was like when I think back of whether I'm a person who's capable of delaying gratification or like exhibiting some sense of self-control. it's that I looked at my phone, knew it was news I wanted, and then made a good healthy decision instead of deciding to blow up my day right there. Okay. I'll give you the exact opposite. Okay. So I woke up at six o 'clock this morning and I just woke up naturally like, oh, I gotta go to the bathroom.

22:02And I go to the bathroom and I'm like, cause I drink a ton of water before I go to bed. I go to the bathroom. I get back in bed. I'm still really tired. And I go, I'm gonna go to sleep. I go, there's no way they got numbers yet because I'm thinking LA. So we're up to sleep. I wake up at like eight. Now I know that sometimes when you're in LA, the numbers, you don't get like answers until later in the morning, like nine o 'clock in the morning is usually where I get it at in LA. And I go, don't look at Netflix. And then I was like, well, who doesn't look at Netflix? I was like, wait, the answer is there.

22:35Why are you afraid of the answer? Why don't you find out your truth now and I go but don't do it and I go why don't you just start your day and I go yeah but the answer is there what are we going to not look at the answer so I go to Netflix and it's just the wind's wheel spinning and I go no that's the Lord telling me not to look at Netflix don't do it close it I closed it and then I was like I was like I'm out and then I was like hold on okay let's just go to the let's get let's go to the login page and see if free births on the login page like the where your names are yeah so I go and it's fucking goddamn Mike Epps and I'm like fucking shit okay so I go all right we didn't have a good day it I would be on the I would be on that on the login meaning not not the i'm saying where you're all your accounts are so i go no no no no and so i go to my text and i got like four texts i go okay all right no one's up i get it and then and then one of the texts is a group text and in the group text i see a name who works at netflix and i go it must be from last night yeah like it must be from late last night like i congratulate we were in a group text with all the netflix people and so i click it and it's a screen grab of the top 10 trending and it's, and free birds number two, which I was like, if I can get it than you expected wildly, like beyond my imagination better.

23:44And then I'm like, and then I read the text and they're like, congrats, fucking dot, dot, all these great things. And then I go, great. And then I go, yeah, thank God. And then I go to Netflix. I look at Netflix. I see it. And then I see me on the front page and it's like top 10 trending. And I'm like, nice, nice, nice. And then I'm like, it's almost like I got, I'm going to this. I apologize to your listeners. I sometimes I tell a story to explain a story and it's so not helpful. I was in Naples, Florida one time and I got out of a Starbucks and, uh, and I heard a crash. My glasses had been fogged over cause from the cold to the hot.

24:18And I heard a crash. I thought a transformer exploded and there was a French guy walking towards me and he goes, you are a lucky guy. And I went, no, yeah. And I thought he just knew me. I was like, I actually am. I'm very lucky. life. Yeah. And then he goes, one inch, you're dead. And I went, yeah, one inch and I'm dead. And I was like, huh. And as he walked by, I turned around and a huge palm frond, like a 400 pound palm frond had landed at my heels and it, and it just missed my head. And I realized had I not stopped, had I not moved forward or had I stopped a foot earlier to clean my glasses, had I stopped a foot later, I'd be dead or very badly injured.

24:59And I said, wow, I have a second chance at life. And I wish that lasted longer than 30 minutes. And so as today, I get that news, I go, that's great. And I don't realize, hey, Bert, let's take this good news and figure out how we would have worked out if it had not been good. And let's work on that side of you, because also you will get bad news one day. And that bad news would have ruined my, I would be a much different interview today had I not gotten that. And it's so crazy. I have no control over that. And as we talk about stoicism, I go, I'm sure there's times George Washington was like, that's not the turnout I wanted.

25:40God damn it, Bunker Hill or whatever, you know? No, he lost like a lot of battles in the Revolutionary War, like way more than he won. And I bet he fucking journaled the next morning and it was like, God damn it, Martha, this isn't what I thought was going to happen. My teeth hurt. Like I'm fucking getting fucked in the ass left and right by these. And then I just go like, instead of going like, it's almost like the gratitude disappears. And I don't have full grasp of how much that should mean to me.

26:11Ryan Holiday: Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I think there's a couple of things there. Number one, it's like, if you can get good at not seeking out or being so dependent on the good news, it means you're also going to be not so wrecked and vulnerable to the bad news, which is inevitable. Okay, so can you work it backwards-forwards? Can I work it where I want to start with not getting wrecked by bad news? Yeah, that's a better place to start, right. And then have it help me with not getting, working with the good news because the bad news will defeat me. I have one day in particular that I remember reading something a guy posted And it was like, I was just like, like you said, I hit a post and I go, wow, 98 ,000 likes.

26:57And I go, oh, let's see what the big boy is doing today. And then you hit comments and the first one's fucking horrible. 148 replies, all defending me. But that first one hits me and I walk through my backyard, which is beautiful. I mean, out of all the things. Better than you could have ever dreamed of getting in your life. I will say that in my life, I wanted yards. I want space. I want yards. And in LA, they're hard to come by. And we got so lucky with this house that we have such a spectacular backyard that I had to stop doing the podcast at my house because people would come into our backyard and go, what the fuck?

27:34And I was like, and it started making me self-conscious. But this backyard that I love, and I love walking through the grass under the huge trees in my backyard in LA. I love walking that long walk to my gym. And I, I, I was, as I was walking and I was just couldn't appreciate my backyard for this comment. Yeah. And I thought, I really thought I got on the treadmill and I go, I can't, I, that's the day I literally had to stop reading all comments. Cause I said, I cannot allow someone who doesn't know me and absolutely doesn't like me, but doesn't know me, doesn't know me and doesn't like me for whatever reason is internally has to be theirs.

28:09I can't have them own a day of mine.

28:12Ryan Holiday: Yeah. Like, and then I, they have real estate in my head and I no longer get to enjoy my day. Right. When I've, I deserve to, everyone deserves to enjoy their day. Of course. And I listen, I get it. I put myself out, I'm putting myself out here and there are people that won't like this. You talk too much. Why don't you talk more about Socrates or whatever? And then, or Socrates. And so, sorry, it's a 10 bill. But like, I understand that I put myself out and I understand that if you're listening, you're allowed to hate me. Sure. You're allowed to live your life and like your life. Like you just have to figure out a way to do that.

28:42Ryan Holiday: Everyone does. That isn't dependent on what other people say. Yes. And that's, I think that's the work of it. I try, like, here's what I would say. Like, let's say you were sitting here on your show. Was it number 22? Because I don't know, something else happened, right? Here's what I would walk through. I'd be like, do you like the show? Yes. I'm very proud of it. Did you have fun making it? I loved it. Did you get better making it? Yes. By the end, I'm such a better actor. Does it say what you set out to say? Yes. Well, okay, that's complicated. Yes. A lot of what you wanted to say. I wanted, yes, 100%.

29:16100%.

29:16Ryan Holiday: And then did you make some money on it? Yeah. Like, you're going down the list. Like, whether people like it or not is, like, the 15th layer of success. Do you know what I mean? Like, what I've tried to do on my books, and I'll give you a thing afterwards where it's a little bit of the downside to it. But, like, I try to go, like, hey, I already fucking won. And like, first off, I get to do my dream. So that's a win. Second, like I challenged myself on the project. I got better. By the way, the way advances work, I'm already in the money, right? And I said what I wanted to say. You know, I had fun while I was doing it, blah, blah, blah.

29:50Ryan Holiday: Like I already got 95 % of what I'm going to ring out of this thing. You know, like now if it happens to become a flywheel and it's spinning off royalties, that's extra. And if people, if it's winning awards and people are saying they like it and it helps them, again, that's all extra. But I already got most of what I could ever expect to get out of it. And I got all the parts out of it that were in my control, right? Like you don't control where it debuts. You don't control what people say about it. So like if your definition of success for a project, is it largely based on the parts of it that are up to you?

30:26Ryan Holiday: Or is it largely based on the parts that are up to other people? To me, that's what you want to think about. Okay. Well, that's really tough. That's really tough. because I will say as a standup comedian, my success is entirely based on their response. So like I can't go, but I did great. They just, you know, I got the money. I got the, I like, like say I do tonight's show or I don't know where the fuck I am. I thought I was at a theater and I'm not, I'm at like some different venue. So I thought I was, I thought there was a place called the Moody Theater. The Moody Theater is an arena. Okay, whatever.

31:02Well, I don't know what the fuck I'm at.

31:03Ryan Holiday: There's like five Moody's in Austin. It's really - I'm one of the Moody's. Yes. And so - But I think you're in the big one. Where UT plays? No, I played there before. I'm in the smaller one. I'm in like a, but it's like a three tiered kind of like, it's like ACL Live or something. Yes. Okay. So - Oh yeah, Moody Center, Moody Theater. Yeah. And then there's Moody Amphitheater, which is outside. And then there's a Moody Blues. You're not old enough. That's the band? Yeah. Okay. I was like, is there a Moody? how old are you i'm 38 okay i was there's an episode of the simpsons where they can drive through vegas and it's just the moody blues are playing every every casino and i think about it all the time what's your favorite simpsons quote favorite simpsons quote oh like do you have a like my favorite simpsons episode is the trash uh the trash commissioner episode where it becomes the trash commissioner and then the food critic those are my two favorites my favorite so like The things that live rent-free in my head, number one is when Homer's making hot dogs for everyone, and he goes over to the cop, not Barney, what's his name, the cop?

32:14Yeah. And he has a drink, and he goes, Topper for the Copper? I say that almost every time. Topper for the Copper? I say that all the time. And then my favorite quote out of any Simpsons is when they have Stampy the Elephant and Lisa gets Stampy the Elephant and Homer brings clearly an ivory salesman over. And Lisa goes, she goes, Dad, I think he might be an ivory dealer. And he goes, Lisa, what makes you say that? And she goes, well, I don't know. His boots are made of ivory. His key chain's made of ivory. His belt buckle's made of ivory. His hat's made out of ivory. He goes, Lisa, clearly with someone with that much ivory would not be in need of more ivory.

32:58I told Conan O 'Brien wrote that episode. Oh, he did? I think I'm almost certain that I told him the first time I ever met him. Ivory salesman's my favorite line. And he just rattled it off.

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35:51I forget what I was saying. Oh, I was saying stand up. Yes. The audience matters. The approval. So like the machine, my movie did not do well in theaters and I ignored that. And it was Tom who brought it to my attention maybe rightfully so or not rightfully so but like it came out i got a text from arnold schwarzenegger and he was like number four in the theaters and the box office isn't bad congrats that's that's awesome these days well it only made like 14 000 in the theaters and 14 million dollars yeah it would cost 35 million dollars to make it did not do well in the theaters yeah but i was like a first grader looking at my lunchbox going like fuck yes i love peanut butter and jelly i love twinkies and i'll eat an apple because mom says i'll eat an apple right and didn't look at any other people's lunch boxes and then i think tom was the one that was like so how do you feel about the machine and i go fuck i'm excited i go it's awesome i all i was thinking about what you said i moved to serbia for three months to make a movie i made a movie i starred in a movie and i i saw a premiere of a movie where the response was through the roof with everyone in the theater everyone told me how much they loved it and in my head i was again tom goes but it you know it you know casually just like it didn't do well in the theater not to like case but just my best friend and i went yeah but i think it's a number four and he goes out of five and i was like in my head i'm really glass half fulling it and then i started reading like i was like i was this is when i was reading comments i would read like reviews of the movie and they were somewhat i mean they had to be accurate because i feel like reviewers i don't feel like reviewers have a grudge against someone they don't know right and so and they were like what a narcissistic move to make a movie about yourself.

37:31And then I was like, Oh, I mean, that's like 90 % of art. Yeah. And then, and, but then I'm reading them and I'm like, Oh my God, Oh my God. Oh my God. And I remember someone Netflix was like casually, we're at a Lakers game. This guy that works at Netflix is pretty big up. He was like, uh, nice. I said, what? And he goes, tanks in the movie theater. It's going to crush on Netflix. And I was like, huh? But I was already in failure mode. I was like, wow, this thing I was so proud of. It's almost like having a, your kid and send them into first grade and then finding out your kid's a nerd. And you're like, but I like my kid, You know, and then I came back and then it streamed number one on Netflix movies for a month.

38:04It was number one for a month. And then the reception was crazy, but I already had this negative vibe. See, this is what I mean.

38:11Ryan Holiday: Like, you're whips on around, and something closer to your original opinion of it was actually the accurate thing. I think that's the accurate thing. And I remember going, I'll tell you another one. I'm going to give you a perfect one. This is the most accurate one. And by the way, this is one that your listeners will be able to go, okay, I'm not going to sit and watch a movie. I'm not going to watch Burst's new TV show. Please do. It's free. It's streaming on Netflix. I'd really stand by it. It's really good. It's good. I think. Yeah. Thank you. the Tom Brady roast yes uh Tom and I did together I saw I we got done and I was through the roof I was ecstatic with the experience it was one of the coolest things I've ever done I think Tom and I did great we had a solid double I don't think we were Nikki or or or Tony but but listen we weren't we weren't Kim Kardashian or Ben Affleck right so anywhere in between there I was like listen as long as they're not talking about you Tom came in the next day and he's like you know we bombed And I went, what?

39:05And he was like, we bombed. They say we bombed. I go, who? And he goes, the internet's saying we bombed. And I went, well, I'm not listening to them. And he goes, but they're saying we bombed. And I go, I don't give a fuck. I go, I was there with you. You stood next to me. Like, when we got done, we hugged because we did great. Like, the room, we were in the room, Tom. And then no one that night told us we bombed. They hugged us and said, great job. So wait, what are we listening to, the internet or what our experience was? And he goes, the internet. And I went, why would we listen to the internet?

39:36And he was like, that's what they're saying. I mean, you got to acknowledge it. And I was like, I don't. And he goes, well, we're having Tony on the pod, Tony Hancecliffe on the podcast. And then Tony really reads the internet. And then Tony's, and then Tom's like, the internet says we bombed. I go, not me. And then Tony just goes, I guess you weren't in the room. And I was like, what the fuck are you? Literally, I think in the podcast, I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, I'll give you flowers to say you crushed, but let's not let's not Monday morning quarterback this and say we bombed we didn't but then I was I'm torn on that Tom Brady roast when people ask me about it because I go I have Tom the internet and Tony's response and then I go am I a delusional kid that goes my experience trumps it but when you say that I stand by I was in that room not one person listen the biggest backlash I got out of that is I read everyone's prompter and I'll stand by that.

40:28And everyone can suck my dick. I think I fall in love with the idiot that reads everyone's prompter. I can't believe that you wouldn't love a what about Bob character who just sat there reading everyone's prompter and giggling to himself. I was shocked that that made people hate me. I thought it was hilarious. I was like blown away that I go. So I, in my head, I was like, if you hate me for reading prompter and you're saying I bombed I I can't be on your page and that was the first like right after that was my first lean into stoicism of like well hold on am I am I crazy if I make my truth the truth

41:05Ryan Holiday: yeah I mean look obviously there's the realities of the business like if you're getting up there you're you're on tour and it's getting no laughs in the room yeah like like if I go hey I care about whether I'd accomplish it. If the book sells zero copies, that's going to affect the advance next time. And then the next time, and then there probably won't be a time after that. Like there is the reality is like, same goes. Like, um, if you're a salesperson, you're like, well, the call went well to me. Like at the end of the day, like if they don't buy, you don't get your commission and then they fire you.

41:36Ryan Holiday: But like an athlete that is like an athlete's got to go, Hey, the shot felt good coming off my hands. It's not going to go in a hundred percent of the time. Yeah. Right. So like you, you got to get out of the, what do they think? What's what you got to get out of that and back into the thing as quickly as possible. Back into the thing that makes you. The part that's in your control, which is the act itself and the, the doing of the, whatever it is. My thing, my big, my big force lately has been pull out both sides, try to get rid of both sides and just stay playful in life. I want to stay playful.

42:09I want to giggle. And there's like a sparkle in life that if you can hold on to that, I think that that's my driving force in life. And I want everything to have that shine and that sparkle, you know, and, and not have to attach alcohol or food to it to get the shine or sparkle, just to be able to go walk down the street and go, or walk through Central Park and go, I'm seeing all the trees. It's beautiful, you know? It should be fun. This should be fun. It should be fun. Stand-ups should be fun and silly and goofy. And it's like, that's -

42:37Ryan Holiday: But I just always mean life. Why should life, like, life sucks in a bunch of ways. So the parts of it that are up to you should be good. Yeah.

42:49Ryan Holiday: Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us. And it would really help the show. We appreciate it, and I'll see you next episode.