Your Worldview Is Only as Wide as Your Curiosity | Chet Garner

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1:52Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each weekday we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, a short passage of ancient wisdom designed to help you find strength and insight here in everyday life. And on Wednesdays, we talk to some of our fellow students of ancient philosophy, well-known and obscure, fascinating and powerful. With them, we discuss the strategies and habits that have helped them become who they are and also to find peace and wisdom in their lives.

2:37Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of The Daily stoic podcast. We were out in Hutto, which is a town about 45, 50 minutes from Bastrop last weekend. I actually got this like amazing sandwich. It was incredible. Like the bread was made of egg, put in a waffle iron. Oh, it was so good. I sent a picture to today's guest and I said, I am in Hutto because of you. This is all your fault. And I was talking to Chet Garner. Chet Garner is, if you live in Texas, he's the host of the show called The Day Tripper, which is this Emmy award-winning travel show that started on PBS. And they just do these day trips all around Texas.

3:19And I started watching it when I first moved here because I love swimming holes. And I saw this episode about this place called Luling that we were thinking about going that had this sort of old mill that you could jump in the swim. You could jump in now the lake that was associated with it or the pond that was associated with it. I've been a fan for years. And then we have this thing with our kids where we try to limit screen time like everyone else. But when we watch stuff, we want it to be about real life. Like if we're going somewhere or we're wanting to learn about something, how do we watch stuff that opens up our minds?

3:48And then we go do that stuff in real life. So we have taken so many trips because of Chet's videos, which you can find on YouTube at the Day Tripper TV. And now actually my wife's out of town this week. We're going back to Hutto because there's this big hippo statue that my kids want to climb on again. And they want to get pie from this restaurant. What was it called? The Texan Cafe, something like that. They got a bunch of pie when we were there last time and we're going to get it again. So this is what my life is. I try to find places that I want to go and we travel there and I like being able to do it in the car, not having to get in an airplane.

4:23That's not really what today's episode is about. Today's episode is about travel, experiences, understanding the world by hitting the road, which I actually have a chapter about in the new book, Wisdom Takes Work. That's the fourth in the Cardinal Virtue series. Like you got to travel. If you don't travel, if you haven't seen the world, you are missing out. You do not know all the things that it is possible for you to know. By the way, you can pre-order Wisdom Takes Work at dailystoic.com slash pre-order. There's a bunch of awesome pre-order bonuses. But full circle, which we talked about at the beginning of this episode, one of the first episodes of the Day Tripper happened in the Daily Stoic studio when it was John's barbershop.

5:07And we talk about that at the beginning of the episode, which is pretty cool. Chet has a similar life to me. He owns a couple buildings in one of the prettiest little towns in central Texas. Georgetown has probably got the prettiest little square. No offense to Bastrop. Bastrop has one of the best main streets, but Georgetown has one of the best town squares. And so that's the other place my kids want to go. They want to go out to Georgetown because there's another toy store that they like, and there's a swimming hole they like there too. So I may be in Hutto and Georgetown this weekend. We'll see how much energy we end up having.

5:40But this is all Chet's fault, and I think you'll get hooked on his stuff, even if you don't live in Texas. We nerd out about the philosophy of travel. We talk a lot about Herodotus as well, who's the main character in the Hit the Road chapter in Wisdom Takes Work. So you can follow Chet on Instagram at Chet Tripper. You can go to the daytripper.com, which they break down all the episodes. They have links to all the different places. And then, of course, follow him on YouTube at the daytripper TV. You can catch it on PBS stations, wherever you are. Check out his stuff and hit the road. Pre-order Wisdom Takes Work at dailystoke.com slash wisdom.

6:22I don't know if you watch the daytripper or if someone on your team watches the daytripper or something. Okay, cool. I've watched hundreds of episodes of the Daytripper. Shut up. Yeah. I'll tell you this. I know that you have been in this building before. That's how much Daytripper I've watched. When we walked in, I thought this was still John's hair design. And I was like, oh my gosh, wait, no, it's a secret podcast studio, which maybe I shouldn't say that on a live. No, no, you can say it. No, we've watched many episodes of the Daytripper. I've lived here a long time. And then it wasn't until recently we were like, has he ever been to Bastrop?

6:54And we looked and we're watching this episode and you come in and then you walk into John's Barbershop. And I was like, how did we not, how did we not know this? This is crazy. You got like a shave probably in this. I don't know. It might've been on the other side of this wall. I don't remember exactly. I've got the photos so we can match them up exactly to where I was. And we did that whole, like, we tend to jump on pop culture references a little too quickly, but like I was getting a straight razor shave. and it was about the time like Sweeney Todd was real big and we told John that like he was gonna serve me meat pies as a Sweeney Todd reference.

7:31And he was like, what is that? I was like, it's the only musical movie about a barber and you're a barber and you haven't watched it. He was like, oh, whatever. Related to that, that we sometimes have a hot dog vendor down the street and I took him a copy of a Confederacy of Dunces one time. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was really excited and he was kind of like, eh. And then I realized this might be insulting. like yeah like it's the only book i knew about a hot dog guy and then i was like oh wait the guy's like a clown in the book like he's not like he's not a good yeah yeah yeah some references don't land so maybe the barber's just offended by the sweet we had like i think it might have even been that first bat it was the bastrop episode we made a sweeney todd reference then we made a there will be blood reference with i drink your milkshake and then it's like all of these my kids have no idea what these things are.

8:22They haven't aged well. I know it was weird that he didn't tell you because when I bought this place, they told me this was the, at the time, the oldest continually operating barbershop in tech. Like this building had always been a barbershop. Really? So he was like, yeah, he had a picture of like it being a barbershop in the 1800s. Oh, that's cool. And then I remember, so two funny things when we got the place is that when we bought it, we promised the people we were buying from, I think that's why they sold it to us, that we would let John stay and keep doing it as long as we work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:52And so I came in and I was like, hey, John, you know, we're chatting a bit. And he goes, I go, so have you been here a long time? He's like, yeah, I did all these renovations myself. And I go, oh, really? When was that? And he was saying it like it was like added value. Like it was like, I just got a deal because he was throwing it up for you. And he was like, oh, you know, like when I got back from the war, like 69. And I go, I don't know if you can call them renovations. 50 years after they were done. Hey, it's all relative, man, you know? It's all relative. And so, yeah, he'd been here a long time.

9:24And before we bought it, he'd cut my hair a couple of times. When I was in town, I'd sometimes have him cut my hair. And he did an okay job, I guess. Then one day, I'm walking by, and I see him reading, because he was done a long time. He was reading a magazine with a magnifying glass, like at the front. And I was like, I think, I called my wife. I was like, I don't think I'm going to get my hair cut anymore. and I'm not sure how much longer John's gonna be able to do this because he he said like I think I got a couple more years I just want to do it and then when I'm done you know you can do whatever you want with it and it was not long after well this I remember so I had to I was gonna get a shave at an old-fashioned barbershop on the Bastrop episode and so I had to like let my scruff grow out so that I could do it and I had to plan you know you film stuff out of order like okay what am i gonna have post shave before shave and how it all works and john gave me what is goes down the worst shave i've ever had in my life because he was um he was nervous the cameras were on i mean he's a small town barber his hand and i was like the straight right his hand was shaking the whole time i remember we just played it up we were super nice and i left i was like we had to go to walgreens buy a razor and shaving cream and i i think i shaved in the maxine's bathroom across the street because i like i can't do this i look like a mangy dog it was all i was like but i don't blame him i mean he yeah of course you're not you don't have practice shaving on camera yes the sweetest guy and how many people come in and get straight razor shaves anymore it's probably he's like what he actually it's like a it's like the diner lobster sketch on snl like you want the lobster yes i do oh yeah and he comes up like he's singing a sad song like oh no You're not supposed to order that.

11:10Don't order the lobster. That's true. There's times where we're out on the road and I'm like, this is the most interesting thing you've got on your menu. And they're like, please don't order that. No one wants to. Please don't. Because no one gets it. But look, it's creative or whatever. Yeah, it's like you go to a – whenever you are at a restaurant and it's got like the three-ring – like the bound menu. Oh, like the Cheesecake Factory. Yeah, you're like, this should not be – you can't be doing all these things well. this is too many yeah this is too many options i don't need well your mexican food and italian food yeah yeah that's exactly right that's exactly right we did go to one place i was one of the funniest spots like it was a it was a taco shop and a fresh bait store for fishing sure and a u-haul vendor rental there was a fourth business thrown in i can't remember like i love this place no i've seen many many episodes of i think the first daydripper episode i saw was lulling uh and that's early stuff right yeah i think i saw it when it was i mean before not before youtube but i saw it when i was on tv that's the first couple times i saw you know in tv yeah yeah i feel that way now yeah well now it's this whole media thing which is cool so i thought that was interesting too but no i've seen many many episodes over the year and like we have young kids so like all they want to do is be on their screens all they want to do is yeah yeah we fight against that too.

12:33And so we kind of found like, hey, if, if we watch stuff about the real world, then we can, first off, that's better. Just, you know, it's like, if you're watching a documentary, I don't feel as guilty myself. If I'm, if I'm binge watching something on Netflix, I'm watching a documentary. I'm like, Hey, this isn't just raw entertainment. But we found if we make our kids watch stuff about places in the real world, then they're like, I want to go there. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. So that's kind of like, I mean, From the beginning of making the show, I was like, man, if people watch my show and then they just stay on the couch and flip the channel, I kind of failed.

13:09Yes. I want to make a show that inspires people to get off, get in their car and go have real life interactions. Totally. Which seems crazy now. And it's like, look, if we're watching some exotic YouTube channel about people backpacking in Europe. Sure. There's a bunch of logistics that are required to do it. Exactly. This is like, oh, we're watching it on a Saturday morning. Let's go now. Yeah. And so it's actually been nice. I would encourage people, obviously watching your stuff is awesome, but I'm sure there are equivalents wherever they live. It's been great because it's like, oh, hey, here's an off the shelf itinerary for, you know, where did we go a couple of weeks ago?

13:50Kyle. Because we watched a thing about Kyle. Yeah. Do you have pie? Did you go get some pie? We got the pie and then we shot zombies. and the, uh, the rage room place. Yeah. Like they didn't know that was a thing. And so they're like, I got to try that thing. It's amazing when you create something that like actually hits and it inspires people go. So what you're telling me is super encouraging. So, so thank you. No, no, it's been, it's been awesome. I'll get notes from places and they're like, Oh man, I could tell when the, when they walked in that they were daytrippers. Cause they were like, looked at the menu, knew exactly what they wanted.

14:23And then other people, this is the, maybe it gets a little creepy. They're like, oh, Chet set on this wall. I want to, can we have that table so we can sit right there? I'm like, that's so strange, but. Well, speaking of New Orleans, have you ever read Walker Percy? Uh-uh, no, I haven't. It's called The Movie Goer. It's like one of the famous novels about New Orleans, but he talks about that. He calls it certification. So he's in this movie theater watching this movie. There's a scene in the novel. I don't know if it's real, but he's in this movie theater watching it. And they drive by the movie theater that, in the movie that he's in the theater, right?

14:53Like it's a movie in New Orleans. And he's like, it's this rapturous experience. Like anytime your TV life intersects with your real life, suddenly it becomes significant. Inception. I mean, right? You're going into different levels of it. And I think in a social media digital world, people are really interested in, because they are craving like experiences. Sure. They're like, well, I watched that. I want to go see that thing that I watched. I want to go touch that. And so it's sort of, that term has become a thing to refer to. like you can take a Seinfeld tour in New York City and visit all, you know, what are people chasing?

15:29It's not real. I mean, you just did this in your Plano episode. Yes. Yeah. We went to the Dallas, Dallas mansion. Right. Right. It's like, why would anyone do that? But people are interested in seeing, like, they could go to Lyndon Johnson's house. They could go to the house. They could go to all these, but there's something about having seen it so many times that people want to go see the places that were basically not much more than establishing shots in television shows. 100%. It's not like they filmed the show in that house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was exteriors in the pool. Yeah. Right. But like, I'm guilty of it too.

16:03I've got my favorite movies and like, I've got, I mean, in the beginning, I was obsessing about like, oh, oh, the, this movie was filmed in this spot. Like, well, there's a gas station barbecue joint for right outside of Bastrop where Texas Chainsaw Massacre opens it. And then people flock to that. Yeah. I guess it's just a way to interact with, you know, just these things that seem fiction and then like, oh my gosh, they're real. I think what it does is it makes your real life seem more like the glamour. It makes the ordinary not ordinary. Like you could go to any other gas station that serves barbecue.

16:35Sure. Yeah. But that one has been on TV, so it feels special. And then you can take a picture of it and post that. So it becomes extra. So it's like the feedback loop of like, they filmed something here. So I went there in person and then I filmed something there. Now, now, now I don't hate my life so much. So much. Well, like, I mean, you're kind of getting into the genesis of the show. The day trooper was a way to glamorize small towns to make travel accessible for people. So, you know, cause I like, I got to travel Europe and stuff like that. I was like, these towns are cool. But like what's mostly cool about it is the fact that there's beautiful pictures of them in the travel guides.

17:19And, you know, you've been told that you've got to see these places before you die. I can take similar beautiful pictures of downtown Bastrop and romanticize it in a way that it makes the ordinary special so that people get out and come see them. You know, it's certified. So we use the word. It's certifying it as as visitable. And life is a lot of marketing is is that right. They're like, this is the best of this, even though that's something you pay for. Or like, you know, this was seen on this show. Like if you were at a comedy club, you could just wait three seconds to see if you find this person funny or not.

17:56But you want to hear that they were featured on X, Y, or Z. Oh, totally. It's all about setting the context with which you're about to consume this thing. 100%. 100%. In my world, in the echo chamber I live in, right? one of the biggest things that can possibly happen for a restaurant, barbecue joint is to be named on the Texas Monthly Top 50. Yes. Because that's the certification that this is amongst all the barbecue, the hundreds, maybe thousands, this is the ones that are worthy. I mean, the Michelin stars came out. That was a big deal too, right? Yeah. And the Michelin star guide is propaganda from a tire company.

18:33But after a long enough time, it becomes significant. Sure. Exactly. Exactly. I think we're getting into a world now, too, where curation is one of the biggest things that matters. I mean, you should do such a good job. Like, the bookstore is super curated. You've said of all the ancient philosophers, here's the ones you should read. Yes. And you've got the credibility. And so what I do is just that in the small town Texas travel world. It's curating it, taking this giant world of knowledge and then distilling it down and saying, hey, these are worthy of your attention. Yeah. It's funny that I got that stamp, though.

19:05I mean, I wasn't setting out for it.

19:14We just took our kids to an outdoor performance at the Nutcracker. They had a snow cone. And then they went insane in the car ride home. And one of the things I try to remind myself when that's happening is that I don't control my kids' behavior, especially when they're too far gone like that. But I do control how I respond, right? That's stoicism, but it's also what Dr. Becky talks about. Dr. Becky is a clinical psychologist and a best-selling author, and she founded Good Inside, which is there to give parents practical, actionable tools for handling those everyday challenges with confidence.

19:49My wife introduced me to Dr. Becky's books. I love them. I've recommended them a million times. I've had her on the podcast. And as it happens, Dr. Becky is hosting two live Q &A events for Good Inside members. I am one of them. She signed me up for about a year and a half ago. I've loved it ever since. On December 1st, you can join Dr. Becky for her How Not to Raise Assholes event, which is about avoiding entitlement and raising kind, empathetic kids. And on December 15th, she's hosting her How Not to Lose It over the holidays event, which I'm sure we could all use. As I said, I'm a big fan of Dr.

20:26Becky. She's been a great influence for me as a parent and just as a human being. And Daily Stoic listeners can join for 15 off with code STOIC15. You just got to head over to goodinside.com to catch the events. Look, when you're hiring, you don't want just anyone. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward. And when I need candidates who match what we're looking for at Daily Stoic for any of my businesses, we trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs, because when you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. You can give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed's sponsored jobs.

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22:10Well, so where our worlds maybe, I thought I was trying to think of a way our worlds kind of intersected. Do you know who Herodotus was? The name, man. So he's the first traveler. Basically, the guy that invents travel literature is also the guy that invents the concept of history. So around like the fourth, fifth century, This guy decides to travel. He's sort of, there's basically all these wars and things going on. So he's kind of, he's basically exiled. And he's like, I'm going to travel and I'm going to talk about it. And no one had ever done that before. And he decides not just to write about what he sees, but to like ask the people about why they do what they do and where they come from.

22:49And so he sort of, he writes this book called The Histories, which is like our story of the 300 Spartans, right? Okay, yeah. That comes from him because he talks a lot about the clash between the East and West because he's traveling around. So this one guy, just this very curious traveler, just decides to head around. He's like the first person to travel for no reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he wasn't thinking, oh, I'm capturing these stories to live as a narrative for the future. You think he was just indulging himself? I think more directly, he wasn't like, I have to get over here to buy spices or I have to travel over here because the army is going over.

23:28He was like the first person to just wander around and record what I see. And so he's known as the father of history, but he's really also the father of travel journalism in any form. Oh, my gosh. I need to study this guy. It's fascinating. I think I know of the tale through the 300 story of the Spartans and then. father of history. And a bunch of the stories we know are all from him. That makes sense. Oh, see, that's fascinating. Yeah. And he's just kind of like, well, why do you do this? The Greek word was, I think, nomos. He was like, what are the norms? Like, why do you guys over here do this?

24:03And over here we do this? And he, like, I mean, obviously this is a time of immense sort of, the whole idea of cosmopolitanism doesn't exist. So it's like, over there, they're barbarians, and over here we're civilized. And he kind of is like, well, what? You know, like, Okay. He's interested, actually. What a fascinating thing, like to be curious about another culture. Yeah. I mean, surely maybe that existed. There are a lot of people I've encountered in life who just aren't that curious about how the world is out there. No. You know, I'm infinitely curious about little towns, little things. You are as well.

24:37But there's a lot of people in that time. I'm sure it was the pervasive mindset. Like, I don't care what the barbarians are doing. They're barbarians. Surely they don't have anything to offer me. Would you know why they're called barbarian? A barbarian was basically anyone who didn't speak Greek. Oh, okay. Anyone beyond the wall. It's basically referring to the Persians because when they talked, it sounded like gibberish. And the gibberish in Greek sounded like bar, bar, bar, bar. That's barbarian. Oh, that's funny. Like just the childlike simplicity that that is based on. And then he goes, well, I wonder what they're saying.

25:17Like he actually went and he asked. Okay. And we get all these myths and stories. Some of them are obviously preposterous and he's pretty credulous about them, but he's just like the first guy that was like realizing like, oh, the Egyptians have a history and the Persians have a history and the Ionians have it. He just goes around and he cobbles together these histories. Oh, that's fascinating. Okay. I got to read some of this stuff. Yeah. Well, some of the best stuff, I mean, this is kind of on a smaller scale. I've found old travelogue books from like the 1940s traveling Texas or before the 1920s.

25:50Like people who just kind of wandered around and made notes of like the times when our town squares weren't like renovated. They were active and alive and there were giant gaps between towns. And of course, you couldn't drive very fast. You were in a model. That's why they were separate towns. You know, yeah. So those things are fascinating. That's a thread throughout history of people just being curious of, I wonder how they live over there. Well, and realize that one of the big things that kind of blew my mind was, and maybe some people it's basic or some people it sounds like, you know, like a galaxy brain nonsense, but realizing like they didn't live in the past.

26:22They lived in the future. Like they lived in the most, any era was the most advanced era in the history of the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the golden age. Look at all we have. Yeah. Right? And so it didn't feel like, they didn't believe they lived in antiquity. They believe they live right now. They're the here and now. One of the worst rides at Disney and also one of the best rides was, it was like a rotating, was like the World of Tomorrow or something, where you got Walt Disney in different eras. And he's explaining to you why this is the greatest era in time. Yeah. You know, and they all look kind of miserable to us, but it helps you understand his perspective.

27:03You're absolutely right. Or like at Disney World, there's like the people mover as a ride, like basically like an escalator as a ride. Oh, yeah. You know? Or like the thing at the airport you stand on and just takes you around. They were like, this is the beauty. This is it. Look. We're not moving our legs. 50 years later, you're like, I took one of those in my hotel to get to the park. That's funny. Yeah. We were looking back at old footage. And so I've been doing what I do for 15 years. Some of our early episodes were like Bastrop, but also downtown Austin. Yeah. South Austin. And it occurred to me like, oh, dang, I'm making a historic documentary.

27:40Yes. I was like, what? But it's true because in a couple decades, this is capturing an era. It's going to be looking back like Austin in the 60s or something. For some people, what you captured in a particular episode is Austin before it sucked. Like before it became what it is now. It was the perfect time. Although if I watch it or some person who's just moved here watching it, they go, oh, it wasn't good. like none of the good stuff had happened yet. Oh yeah. So there's something kind of, there's something kind of funny about watching that where you go, Oh, this is all just this. We're trying to take a moment and create it as a fixed thing.

28:21When in fact, it's just kind of always been in flow. Always moving. I got to Austin in 99 when I came to go to UT. And at that point we were all saying, Oh man, Austin sucks. Now you should have seen it. Yes. A couple of decades ago, you know, or like maybe less than a decade when Linklater made slacker, the film just kind of wandering around Austin. But then they were all talking about, you know, the glory days of the Armadillo World Headquarters. And so Austin is always, you should have been here yesterday. But that's literally every, they're also the myopia. That's, I think what travel does is everyone says that about every city in the entire world.

28:55Yeah, yeah, that's true. Everyone thinks like, you know, Philadelphia was better. Philadelphia was better 200 years ago. You know, like there's no. You're like Rome now, man. And you should have seen it. Yeah, because everything is constantly being made and remade and changing. Yeah, that's true. That's true. What better illustration than our kids? Yeah, of course. My gosh. Constantly having to appreciate, well, this is what I've got now. And not to get too nostalgic about what I had then. Yes. Because it was just as hard. And I was nostalgic then about what I had before. Yes. And not also getting trapped in the forward looking.

29:32Well, I can't wait till this happens. That's going to be the best time. Yeah. So, you know. You had this experience as a parent where you're like, I can't wait. I can't wait till they can watch themselves. Can't wait till they can walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All this stuff. And then you get to those moments and all you think about is how you wish. Oh, man. Remember when we could just put them down? We didn't have to worry about them going anywhere. Uh-huh. You know? That's true. And then you're like, where's my 16-year-old? They know it's curfew. You know? It happens like that. That's where we are right now.

29:58Yeah. We just got a driver. And I thought, and driving is the most terrifying, but also, it's the worst and also the best. Sure. You know, because you've got him on a snow day, like, okay, you know, like, hey, buddy, be careful. But then also, like, he could drive himself to practice. So you'd wait off your shoulders. It's amazing. It's amazing. We've got a big family, too. So, but, you know, I just constantly trying to live in the present and say these are the good old days. Yes. Right? One of the things I've tried to realize as a parent is what I'm rushing towards is the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:28At a big level, you're rushing towards death. That's what we're doing. Right. All of us. But you're also just rushing towards a thing you will 100 % guarantee miss. Yeah. You know? And it hit me the other day, I'm not just going to miss this like, oh yeah, when my kids are old and moved out, I'm going to miss the noise and the mess. But it's like when my wife and I go for a date, the thing we desperately needed, the first thing we're like, I miss the kids. Like you're going to miss it like six hours from now. Immediately. Immediately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not looking forward to the kids moving out.

30:58I love it. You know, but also like it's exhausting and there's the schedules are a nightmare. But, you know, constantly having to remind myself like there'll be a place for the future. There was a place for the past. I've got to get like, this is where I'm at right now. Well, it's so exciting, this idea that we never step in the same river twice. And I think it's something interesting that like, you know, they say in traveling, like you can't go home again because you're not the same person and the place you're coming home to is not the same. Not the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something about, I imagine for you, you've been going to these places for a decade and a half, a whole life in some cases.

31:33And you've been in this building before, but it's different. Also, you're different. Yeah. Also, the world is different. And so there is this kind of mystical, miraculous thing about how it's always changing and you're always changing and it's never the same. Yeah. I think travel does that. I mean, it can literally be said, travel changes you. And it doesn't have to be on a grand scale. Yes. It doesn't have to be that backpacking trip to Europe for a month, you know, just going out and taking a day trip to Fredericksburg, wherever, Bastrop, here. There's just so much it does as far as broadening our eyes into the fact that there's real humans that live in different places and they're kind and they make great food.

32:16And, you know, they treat me. If I treat them kind, they treat me kind. Yeah. And then also like the different cultures. I mean, when I was in college, you go to Fredericksburg and like literally hear German spoken on the street. And like these people, like they're not tourists. They actually legitimately live here. And that blew my mind because I was putting so much energy into going to Germany to hear people talk German when it was just right there. And so not enough can be said about how much travel shapes our minds and broadens our worldview. you. And then there's something too, I think about going somewhere and going like, oh, they live in their own world here and are dealing with their own shit here.

32:53Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like in his book on Australia, Bill Bryson talks about like reading the newspaper in a country you're not from. Okay. And you're like, oh, this is weird. Like they're, they have their own scandals, their own things that they're worried about. Yeah. And then also though, I think one of the benefits slash curses of being an American is they're also talking about America from a distance because you can't actually, like I was in Austria for a month this summer and you're just like, on the one hand, it made some of this craziness here seem clearer to me because you're like, oh, this is what a country who's not Democrat or Republican just thinks about the big guy.

33:32Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. And then on the other hand, you're like, oh, by not following it day to day, some of this stuff isn't of global significance. It's just stupid or weird or whatever. petty. Or how was Big Brother doing over there because it's going to influence how life is here. But also when they get into the drama and the soap opera of it, you're just like, oh my gosh, we seem so petty. I was in Lockhart this weekend and I picked up the little Lockhart newspaper. And it was like, these are what the high school kids are doing. And you're like, oh yeah, they only care about, this thing only cares about this thing.

34:03And there's something freeing and clarifying about that. Yeah, they have, I mean, the world outside doesn't concern them. I still, Ryan, meet people who haven't left their county. So, you know, Texas has 254 counties. I'll be in the panhandle and legitimately talking to someone and they'll be super interesting, you know, and just whatever slice of life. They're kind. They've got stories. And then I'll start talking about the beach and then they've never gone to the beach. I know. Isn't that crazy? And like, or the Capitol, they went as a high school kid to the Capitol. And that was it. Yes. You know, and they've been up there doing their ranch thing.

34:39Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. I'll never forget it. I was dragging my wife to Vicksburg. I wanted to see the Civil War battlefield. Okay, yeah. And we spent the night in Natchez. And we're in Natchez in this diner. And the waitress goes, where are you guys from? And we were saying, and we're like, we're going to Vicksburg. She's like, oh, I've always wanted to go. And I go, it's 25 minutes from here. You know, what do you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, it's a free park. You know, it's not like, hey, I've always wanted to go to Disneyland or I've always wanted to eat at the French Laundry, where there's some like finance.

35:09You probably drove as far to get to your job here today. You don't live across the street. You drove 20 minutes to get here. Right. But you've never driven 25 minutes to just see this thing of national global significance. You know, this is where you start to get sort of like your superiority complex. Like it's better to have gone and seen these things. Is it really? I mean, I think for me personally, yes, I needed to see these things. I needed to have those experiences. But there's people out there with a totally different mindset that they're just as content, maybe more content than we are. Well, I think if you're a curious person, you do stuff like that.

35:50And then also you're curious about the people who don't do that stuff. You know, like, tell me why. So you just never, you've never been on an airplane? And they're like, yeah, there's never. Tell me all about this. Right, right. Crazy. Gosh, and it stuck in my head even more than when you look back upon the World War. And you were plucking these people who had never left their county out, shipping them to Europe to fight a battle against forces that hadn't really been explained that much to them. It's just good guys versus bad guys, possibly. Imagine you're some kid in Texas. Yeah. You get drafted in World War II.

36:27You get sent to fight fascism and bigotry and prejudice. But that's what your hometown does. Yeah, that's right. And so the disruption and the roiling, also, you're a black kid from Texas, you get sent to there, you know, you stop in London first, and you're allowed to go in bars and restaurants. So just the kind of passions that get unleashed and what that does is it changes everyone. Yeah. You can never go home again after that. Exactly. That's without a doubt. On both sides. Like, on the one hand, you got a taste of freedom. On the other, you got exposed to your hypocrisy. And now when you get home, you have to choose to either double down on said hypocrisy or you're deeply unsettled with it.

37:14Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you're fighting your own revolutions over here because these ideas are swirling and you can't live with the inconsistencies. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. And I mean, the whole point of segregation was if we keep the people separate, they can't have that discomfort and question how it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's a flawed premise, but then the system is about buttressing that flawed premise, right? It allows it to perpetuate because you're not actually face to face with. We don't want to deal with the turmoil. We'll keep them separate. We'll keep these people isolated. They won't talk, and this will be best for everybody.

37:50Yes. Which never works in the long run, ever. Right. That's why banning books and things like that's always a bad idea. These ideas are going to come to a head. They're either going to sort of work their way through or they're going to explode into revolution. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's one of the interesting things Haradis talks about is he hears about this practice in like India where they eat their dead. And he's telling someone about it and they're like disgusted. And so he brings them over and he goes, okay, so what do you guys do? And they're like, well, when our ancestors die, we cut off a little piece of them.

38:25We cook and we eat in. And then we have a piece of them in us. Yeah. And the Greeks are like, this is disgusting. Your barbarians are horrible. And then he's like, okay, well, what do the Greeks do? And they're like, well, we take our ancestors and we put them on this bed of sticks. And we light them on fire and we burn them up. And they're like, how is this disgusting? How could you possibly do this? How disgraceful. And basically it's this idea that like what is barbaric is simply that which is unfamiliar or unusual to us. 100%. 100%. I think that's kind of what you take from travel and from also from reading and from his, you go, oh, all this stuff is made up and weird.

39:05It just, it's, if it's what I come from, there's a familiarity and a normalcy to it. And it's only when I'm removed from that context or I'm forced to interact with someone who is rationally and calmly and reasonably describing what they do. And, and by the way, appalled at what I do, but you see the kind of absurdity and relativity of all of it. That's right. That's absolutely right. And what does a fish know about water? Nothing until you take them out and then they're now they're dying. Like, so it's I agree with you 100 percent. The great pundit Matt Damon. I don't know if this is his quote or not, but you might have heard this quote.

39:38He's like, we could solve a lot of the world's problems if we just all had thicker passports. You understand the idea? I don't know if he said it. It gets attributed to him all the time. I don't think you need a thicker passport. It just takes that stepping outside of what your fishbowl and experiencing people in their fishbowl and realizing like, oh my gosh, we have a lot more in common than what we don't. And then also you're doing great over there with totally different cultural practices than me. And I've got a mutual respect for it. Well, and what is cool about Texas is that it is so big that you can travel quite a bit and never put a stamp in your passport and experience different climates, different altitudes, different lifestyles, literally different countries.

40:24There's all these different ethnic enclaves. And then also you can travel back in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To the days when people didn't leave their county. Yeah. You know, like it still happens. I was just in the valley. So Rio Grande Valley, Brownsville, McAllen, all in there. And I was mourning, you know, this nostalgia. You look back over travel. I remember the days when I was young, we would go jump the border and we would have an afternoon and a meal in Mexico. Yeah. In these border towns. And it wasn't abnormal. We did it every summer. Yeah. And my parents would just give us money and wouldn't watch us.

40:58It's like where I learned how to kind of speak hack Spanish and then how to barter. Like, I don't want to pay. Yeah. It was the Onyx knife. You know, like I was like, I'm obsessed with getting an Onyx knife. Like I didn't want to pay$10 for it. Let me get it. Can I get it for eight? You know, whatever. And I was mourning the fact that we can't go over like that anymore. Yeah. But then down in the valley, what's happened is the border has just moved over here because this is where people are spending money. Yeah. And there's a lot of cultural, political reasons. But that experience that I remember from jumping into Mexico is very much in South Texas right now.

41:32And so you can walk around. I mean, I was on streets. I couldn't find anybody to speak English to me. And it was in Texas. Yeah. And they're doing great. Yeah. You know, it seems like a totally different world. It's like this, for all intents and purposes, this is a different country. Right. And I'm still on the U.S. side. I'm in Texas. And these people are, you know, everybody's doing great. Well, there's not that many places in the world that you can drive for hundreds of miles and not cross any borders. state or international. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like there's, I was telling someone yesterday who's, it was here from Europe and I was like, there are ranches in Texas bigger than many foreign countries.

42:15I think there's a ranch in Texas bigger than Germany. Certainly Texas is bigger than many European nations. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But there's, there are spots within it owned by people that are certainly bigger than Belgium or, you know, it's insane how big it is. The King Ranch, I think, is bigger than, you know, multiple states combined. Yeah. And it's a single ranch. It's broken into different units, but it's one person's property. Yes. It's crazy. We went to New England a couple years ago, and I remember, like, seeing state lines like county markers, you know? I was like, wait, hold on. I mean, you could walk across Rhode Island.

42:51It's a full day's walk. Part of me has always wanted to do that. Yeah. I don't know, for no reason other than just to say I did it. Yes. but in texas in texas like yeah there are not many counties you could walk across gosh no no no no i mean yeah so like we we have to plan our show uh very intentionally like if we're going out west it's not seven hour drive yes yeah we get we get that crap all the time like that's not a day trip like but just depends on where you start right for the people in fort stockton it was i mean you could if you leave austin you can you can have dinner in big bend and then yeah if you start the 24 hours when you arrive to there, you can get a lot done, you know, but it's, it's not an ideal.

43:30Have you gone out to Big Ben? Yeah. A bunch of times. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's actually one of my big, uh, I think it's wonderful, much better to be a place that people want to come than a place that people are fleeing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm very pro immigrant, not just like globally, but just like, I hate the don't come here. Don't California. Yeah. Yeah. The door's closed. Yeah. Yeah. But, but like, I would say one of my criticisms of all of many of the people that are moving to texas is they are they are locating in texas but it is not their locus so like like they're not they're not coming here like they're not moving to austin and then going and now the panhandle is my beach and big ben's my national park and whatever they're they're here and then they're flying everywhere they're saying they're they're going on vacation in hawaii and they're they're skiing in colorado which is all fine but like they're not actually exploring Texas.

44:24They're just living in Austin or Dallas or Houston or whatever. Because if it's proximity to an airport, oh, Austin airport, I can get anywhere I want. Well, now you're not really here then. Yeah. And so the people I know that have moved here, I would say 5 % of them have been to Big Bend. And it's one of the one, you know what I mean? It's an amazing place that everyone should go. I get to talk in front of big crowds all the time. And I'll ask people, how many of y 'all have been to Big Bends? And these are typically very Texas-centric groups. A quarter of them. Yeah. So Texans aren't that much better.

44:51Yeah. Now, a lot of people have. I've learned very few people have been to Big Bend once. Yeah. You know, it's one of those that gets into your blood and you got to go back. Well, I mean, yeah, it's a glimpse of Texas. It's like the first time we went, we stayed in Lajitas. And you're like, it's an hour to the park from there. Totally. From the closest town, it's an hour drive. Vast, vast expanses of nothing. Yeah. That's the beauty of it, though. Totally. Of course. My wife was like, she didn't go kicking and screaming to Big Ben, but she loves, we're from East Texas, so we were high school sweethearts.

45:24She loved the trees and you can't kill St. Augustine grass and just grow, you know, and like the azaleas and all that. It's like the desert, like there's just no way that's beautiful. And then went out there and it kind of clicked. We were there for spring break with my kids and it snowed, like it snowed like six inches while we were there. And it was unreal. That's nuts. Climate change at its best, I guess. Yeah, because they're getting unusual snow on the regular. Yeah. Well, and also, when you think of Texas, you don't think elevation. You think planes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's got, I mean, you got to find it, but it's out there.

45:59Have you done the tallest peak in Texas yet? Which one is that? Guadalupe Peak. Is that there? It's in our other national parks. So we've got two national parks, Big Bend and Guadalupe Mountains National Park. And it has a roughly 9 ,000 foot high peak. Takes about eight hours. How old are you kids? Oldest is eight. Youngest is five. Okay. Yeah, they're not going to make it. But you and your wife can go out there. Yeah. The eight-year-old might. But I mean, it's a grueling hike. Have you done Enchanted Rock yet? Yes. Okay, yeah, that one's one of my favorites. Yeah, of course. No, but I think Big Bend is incredible.

46:31We've done a fair amount out there. We're trying to do a couple of those a year, just like the big dragon one. I love it, Ryan. You got here and you're like, look, I'm going to own it. I'm going to, I don't want to say assimilate. You brought your perspective, but like, I want to treat this as home. Yeah, I think you want to use where you are as a chance to, like, you go, I want to read about this place. I want to watch things about this place. I want to go places. Because then it helps you understand, because everything is a lens into the larger time period. Like, so you're talking about Texas German.

47:00Like, you're like, okay, so wait, why is this here? And then all of a sudden you're understanding, you're forced to go, well, why did they come here? And then you're like, oh, it's because Germany was, oh, wait, Germany's a new country. Yeah. You know, and then and then so it's it's this way into this different stuff. That's the thing that didn't even occur to me till recently, how like Poland didn't exist. Germany really didn't. It was all these collective states like cities, city states kind of things. And so you had the Alsatians who came over and were in Castroville. So we have this little French Alsatian thing going.

47:33And we just visited the oldest Polish settlement in America, which is in Panamaria. It's outside of San Antonio. Yeah. They've got this incredible heritage museum and church and a sausage factory that makes amazing Polish sausage. But like when they came over here, they were getting run out of a nation that they didn't really even, you know, wasn't theirs. And so they were just sort of a people group more than a locale.

48:04Thanks to Toyota Trucks for sponsoring this episode. When I bought my ranch in 2015 out here in Bastro County, I drove my car about halfway down the dirt road that we live on, thought this isn't going to work, stopped, parked it, walked the rest of the way home, borrowed my wife's car, drove into Austin and bought a truck. What I bought was a Toyota Tacoma. And this truck wasn't just transportation getting me to and from my house. It unlocked a whole different style of living for us, not just on the ranch, but in our little Texas towns. There were places I could go now that I couldn't go before, especially out here in the piney forests, through the fields, and on the unpaved roads like the one that I lived in.

48:49We got to go deep into the hill country's wild beauty. We've driven all the way out to East Texas. We've driven across the country. And by we, I mean not just my wife, but both my kids who I drove home from the hospital in that truck. Toyota trucks are built for those who understand that the best adventures happen when you're willing to veer off course, because you never know when you'll end up on a Toyota adventure detour. And of course, this is stoicism, too, because every detour, every obstacle is an opportunity. But it's helpful if you can handle the difficulty inherent in that. If you've got the resilience and the right companion to make it wherever the road takes you, discover your uncharted territory.

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49:41Well, and realizing I think this is a thing America doesn't give itself enough credit for is like, so America was a collection of colonies that were all kind of independently created for different religious reasons and economic reasons, right? Sure. And then the big innovation is Benjamin Franklin's like, hey, we're better together than separate, right? This is the joint guy. Which, by the way, he steals from the Iroquois Confederacy. We steal – this is another thing we steal from the Indians. Oh, I didn't know that. Is the idea of a confederation. Okay. Okay, yeah. Like the Articles of Confederation is basically Benjamin Franklin cribbing on this system of government from the native people along the eastern seaboard.

50:16Look at that. But so a collection of city, state, colony areas becomes a nation, right? And that's what we sort of export that back to Europe, right? Italy is unified. South America, you know, comes together. We export this all over. And so, yeah, like as those countries came together, some of the people were like, well, this doesn't work for me. Or they weren't a part of whatever that vision was. And they ended up here. We got to go to Italy this past fall. And I was like, wait, Italy's how old? You know, I don't know why. I'm sure I learned it. I just forgot it. Yeah, this stuff is like around the time the Civil War is happening.

50:52People are like these countries. But yeah, sure, the country is a thousand years old. But the modern conception of it and its borders is not that old. And then, by the way, World War I and World War II is really just people arguing about those things. Just like today, Russia is like, no, Ukraine is part of us. Historically, and then however it shakes out determines whether that's true or not. My gosh, Israel, right? The conflict there. It's all about, yeah, who owns this lane. And because people can't get along with each other, and we're not good at understanding that pluralism is the, like, the alternative to this stuff is not everyone's on the same page.

51:31It's that we chill out and make space for everyone. And when we fail to do that, those people have to go somewhere else. And they usually, for most of, you know, the last 200 years, they ended up here. Like, they ended up in America. That's right. And because there was always space. That's right. You know? That's cool. Yeah. When you explore in your area and you go, oh, hey, this is, there's a Christopher Columbus statue in New York City. Not because America was like, we love Christopher Columbus. It's because Italians in New York City were tired of being the low race on the totem pole. And we're picking a hero to celebrate.

52:09Okay. That everybody can kind of get behind. He's our guy. Okay. Like, he's our guy. You know? Interesting. There's a giant one in Corpus Christi, too. I'm like, what? Columbus was never here, but it was them saying, we're proud immigrants from Spain, like our Spanish heritage. Well, and then the toxic version of that is, of course, like the Confederate statues, which go up in the 1910s and 20s and 30s and 40s because they're suddenly they're faced with a sort of a more equal America. And they're like, no, no, no, this is our – Robert E. Lee has never even been here, but he's my guy. He's my guy.

52:40And he's my way, because we control this little town, of saying, when you walk into this courthouse, I'm going to remind you who the fuck's the boss. You know what I mean? That's right. This is not your courthouse. It was a flex. The lost cause. I mean, having grown up in Texas, that was the line through our history books was states' rights, states' rights, states' rights. You know, and then as time has sort of illuminated how messy our history actually is. Yeah. And me traveling Texas has illuminated how messy our history is here, too, between the settlers and the native Indians and just the racism that existed post-revolution against the Hispanics because now the Anglos want it.

53:27And it's all mess and no one's hands are clean. Yes. But the more you travel and you see, it's like, oh my gosh, this history was never black, white. It was always a mess. And it still is. Well, I think one of the things you get when you look at history, too, is it's easy to despair. Be like, oh, they were all so awful. Completely, completely. And then, but if you really look, you find little reminders, right? Like there's that monument of those German, I think they're German settlers who were trying to make their way north to join the Union from Texas. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they get basically murdered, which is obviously a tragic thing.

54:02Way later, massacred, yeah. But another way to see that monument or that historical event, which we don't talk about a lot, is like, hey, everyone wasn't on the same page. There were a bunch of people who lived in Texas who were like, I don't want to do that. The Germans were notorious. I mean, there's Union Valley and Loyal Valley. There are all these little German communities that have names like that because they got sort of ostracized. And the only counties that voted in favor of staying with the union were really the German ones. Well, Bastrop voted against succession. Okay. It was one of the few counties that did.

54:34Yeah. And so it's just like now, like our elections are like 49, 51 or whatever. And then we go, well, everyone thinks this. And it's like, actually, like, we're not far apart. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. It could have easily gone the other way. Totally. And I think that's one of the things, one of the things that I try to take from history is like, it could have been otherwise. And also not everyone agreed with whatever the countervailing negative thing was. Like some people were like, I don't know about this. Right. Yeah. You know, and they were at the mercy of people who had slightly more voting power than that.

55:05Exactly right. Right. So the victors goes to the spoils and the victors write history and the everything else just gets forgotten or brushed aside when there were there were reasonable people all over. And like we were fighting and this could have this could have easily gone the other way. Yes. Easily. There's a fascinating story about there's one of the few civil war battle sites in Texas is down in southeast Texas when a group of Irishmen kept back a force that was trying to invade Texas. Like the union never got into Texas because they were able to seal the Sabine off. And that that could have won.

55:39We would have tons of civil war sites in Texas that we didn't that we don't have because of this. And it could have ended the war a lot faster because then the whole thing would have gone. It's like, there's so many little turning points in history. Like this, this would have rewritten the whole thing. Yeah. And you got to travel to see them. Well, yeah. And then, and then you go, oh, hey, everyone's talking about Juneteenth. Well, Texas is why we have Juneteenth. Yeah, right, right, right. I went to that spot in Galveston recently. Well, I mean, I was just driving, when we drove to Lockhart, I passed, there was like a Juneteenth grounds.

56:07And you're like, oh, because all these little cities had these little parades and moments celebrating this thing because it was basically a foreign country. They just didn't get the news. It took a while to come over. That's right. Yeah. We haven't featured that marker down in Galveston yet. Yeah. But we're going to. Yeah. We approach those things as best we can, as reasonable as we can, knowing that we're going to piss people off on both sides, whatever. The episode, I know you're pretty caught up because you've seen Plano, but we have a Jasper episode that's coming up. Yeah, I saw you mention that.

56:41And that, you know, that's one that people still shudder about Jasper. I mean, when I say that word, what's your reaction? Well, I was like, why do I, because I didn't live here when that happened. So I was like, why do I have a negative feeling about that? Right. And then I was like, wait, is that Jasper, Wyoming that I had a negative opinion about? And then I looked at the Wikipedia page. I was like, oh, yeah. Do you remember it? Yeah. So we debated that a while. For people who don't know, one of the most notorious hate crimes in American history happened. Horrible dragging death of James Byrd Jr.

57:10And it made national news and Jasper was just vilified as the city that killed him. And so, you know, for Texans, that that town has been blacklisted. I guess I should pick a better word. But, you know, it's been it's been written off. Don't go there. It's unsafe. Yeah. Or if you you know, if if you're African-American, you go there, you're unsafe or if you're but if you're white, you go there. You're supporting a racist town. Right. Sure. It's not true. And so we're like, OK, we're going to go into that. We're going to have to address it head on. Yeah. And we're going to talk about how what you think you know about this town is not true.

57:42And it's an incredible town. I mean, the people there are doing great for the most part. But you got to get into that town to see it. And so we debated a long time. Are we getting outside of our lane talking about these things? People want to, yeah. Is this upsetting to someone who just wants to know where to get a big burger? Yeah, exactly. And we've had to stop it. Confederate battlegrounds, all kinds of things. I mean, history is just not clean. Right. And so you're either going to brush it under the rug and not talk about it, or you're going to try to get in and add some sort of clarity to an otherwise completely murky situation.

58:20I think that's important. Like if, if history is clean or fun to you, you're not reading history. That's, that's, that's propaganda, right? Like, like if you're not uncomfortable, if you're not getting a glimpse into the darkness that human beings are capable of, you are, you're, that's not history. That's like a book you get your dad from Costco for his birthday. You know what I mean? Like there's that sort of pleasing fun, everyone's getting along or it was bad, but we worked on it, you know, like, and actually it's pretty, it's pretty gnarly. Yes. You know, I do though, one of our big, our big things like, right.

58:57I want, I want to be the joyful alternative to all, all the other junk that's out there on the news. And so, you know, I do take that seriously. I want families to be able to sit down, watch the show, have a great time enjoy laugh so i do i do want to be light yeah i want to i want to i want to spread light i want to be light to people and so you're like well man there's just some hard stories that you got to deal with yes so either we ignore them which is just i don't i don't think it's the right answer or we hopefully shine light into dark places for people who didn't want to think about it and sort of give them a way to understand it think about it talk about it with their kids yeah in a way that's that's that's productive and understanding when they're out traveling like you are you know like yeah because you're you're going to travel maybe you go to jasper maybe you won't but you'll travel somewhere and you'll see some things that that are probably kind of hard to talk about as parents so what do you do you just like brush them under the rug or you kind of help help but it's like that's the job right your job is to talk to them about those that's the gig you're like whenever what am i supposed to tell my kids i'm supposed to tell what happened you didn't do it yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah like you didn't do it you are not guilty but we're all responsible that's good you know or there's some distinction there between like although what i would say is you become guilty if you are complicit in the cover-up of said thing right okay if you decide not to talk about it or you go oh it was just unpleasant or Or, you know, like if you try to both sides it or whatever.

1:00:29Sure. Then what you're doing is you're not just robbing your kids of, I think, the just basic resilience of being able to be uncomfortable and look at things and learn. But you're also setting them up. You are depriving them of the opportunity to write a better future because you are not telling, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you believe like history will repeat itself? Certainly. Yeah. I mean, right? You've studied history enough, right? Yeah. So how do you break the cycle? Yes. I mean, you have to keep educating the kids and help them to kind of seek a better future. Yeah. And also, like, I know my kids and I know their character and I believe, I don't think when they hear about what happens in Jasper, they're like, they're relating to the guys in the car.

1:01:14Oh, okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they're seeing themselves in the humanity of the, they're not saying, oh, I'm a monster. My dad made me feel bad. I think, like, when I tell them about history, I want them to relate to the underdogs or the, you know, like, the idea that you should only tell them the history where they see a hero and are the hero is, I think, setting themselves up for a world that's not real. I want them to see themselves in the people that persevered and fought, the people who had dignity, you know what I mean? And then sometimes, like, it doesn't always work out for people, right?

1:01:53Sure. Sure. But showing them bad people shouldn't make them feel bad. You're bad. Because they're not bad people. Totally agree. Totally agree. But also showing them that all of our heroes are flawed. Yes. Right? Yeah. And the fact that they struggle with things doesn't disqualify them from doing great things. Yes. You know what I mean? Sure. Like we've got to deal with both the successes and failures of all of our heroes. And none of them are clean. And so making sure that we aren't over romanticizing whatever our founding fathers or Sam Houston or Davy Crockett or whatever, like the, so that they understand the like, hey, man, we're all, we're all flawed.

1:02:39Like we've all got sin in our lives that things we're trying to deal with that we're trying to, to work out. Yeah. And so like, like you just, that's part of the human process. Yeah. And is that flaw or that belief or whatever, is that their main thing? Or was that, you know, like, so like if you're Jefferson Davis, that's pretty much your main thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's like, okay, I can be like, that's probably not someone we need to talk that much about, right? And probably not someone we need to name a bunch of things after. But if you're George Washington, where you do a bunch of good stuff and you have this tragic flaw or this secret or this shame, then you go, okay, how much greater could this person have been if they'd had the courage to face this about themselves?

1:03:24Yes. And how much does their failure to do that undermine the other stuff? Just like a tragic hero in a play. If they're perfect, they're not that relatable. If they're entirely evil, then they're only a villain. Sure. It's in that complicatedness that I think we see, like, what's fundamentally us. We took our kids to Mount Vernon this summer. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. Because, you know, we were always taught, the age of George Washington on the white horse crossing the Delaware, whatever. Yeah. And then, oh, yeah, but his fortune was made on the backs of enslaved people. And, like, here's where they lived, too.

1:03:58And so Mount Vernon's done an amazing job. But, you know, making sure that like, hey, our kids see the messier sides of all of it. Well, and then when you see that, then it makes the decision to say freedom at the end of his life. You understand economically what that meant. You understand from like you go, oh, he would have really wrestled with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a right, wrong, easy. If doing the right thing was easy, everyone would do it all the time. All the time. Yeah, sure. It's that he it's that it cost him a lot. Like, he shouldn't have ever – the whole thing is morally bankrupt.

1:04:33I get that. But the point is, the reason Thomas Jefferson doesn't do it, even though he actually writes more beautifully about the wrongness of slavery, is because he also really liked expensive French stuff. And he was horribly in debt. And he couldn't afford – like, Washington's sort of discipline and frugality puts him in a position to go, hey, I'm going to do this. He couldn't do it earlier because then he wouldn't have had the estate. Like, it makes it real. It's like, okay, he knew what he needed to do, but he couldn't without bearing too much of the weight. And then, but he did get himself to a place where he could do it later than he should have, but he could do it.

1:05:15And this is a spectrum, right? There's this sort of spectrum. Jefferson, very aware, but likes living in Monticello. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. And that we're all on some version of that thing. Like we know, hey, I should probably wear a shirt made in America. But like when I'm at the store and they only have ones made in Guatemala and they're cheap, it's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're forced to compromise. Yeah. I mean, gosh, if only we could live clean and as idealistic as we wanted, right? Totally. Like, I guess that is the struggle. And, you know, and it's the same.

1:05:56It's the same. What do we prioritize more than other things? It's just a battle of priorities. That's what all life is. What's interesting to me about your stuff, though, is like you wouldn't think you could have like, I mean, yes, Texas is big and a lot of people live here, but it is impressive. I think you've built this whole kind of travel media company about one place, you know, one state. Yeah. Like there's something I think about the tools of social media and YouTube that make that possible. That's exciting. Completely. It's also absurd that I can do it about an obscure school of ancient plots.

1:06:25Yeah, that's right. We're both, we schemed the system somehow, right? It shouldn't work. You know, like if you were describing it to an investor, they'd be like, I think that's too small. Yeah, people are going to be, you know, we've sort of talked about this a little bit, but in my travels overseas, I gained this perspective that everyone else in the rest of the world wants to come to Texas at some point in their life. We're like, they're Australia, you know, or like, you know, and like, I'm like, whoa, wow yeah like well what the heck are we doing leaving and so i was like we could build something here um i started off saying it's texas for texans yeah then started noticing everybody else is kind of tuning in and now with youtube some of our biggest fans are over in germany yeah it's it's awesome they'll come over to our little store in georgetown and like i bought the boots and the hatch chat look like oh that's awesome dude i didn't know you had a store we do i mean it's a shoebox it's mostly our production studios yeah i mean that's what but yeah but we we wanted to contribute to the downtown square didn't want to just fill a space with office space like the bookstore i got yeah exactly mad respect for what you did like we're going to contribute yeah we also need a place to do our stuff but like we're going to contribute so we have a little shoebox shoebox of a store which gives people a way to interact with us that they wouldn't have otherwise hey clarky hey you want to sit here i can stand if you want to sit i think clarky has questions.

1:07:48What's up, dude? Have you ever seen a day tripper show? Yes. What? Are you kidding me? You can sit, buddy. Dude, that's awesome. How old are you? I'm eight. Eight. So much wisdom, I bet, packed into your brain, man. Your dad imparted anything to you, or is it kind of like, Dad, quit talking about dead guys? Yeah. That's awesome. You have a favorite show? Yes. What's your favorite episode? Of the day tripper? Yeah. Possibly Kyle. Kyle! What was so cool about that one? The rage room. I've been to the rage room. Did you know that people would give you baseball bats, you smash stuff? What did you get to smash?

1:08:27I got the hammer and I just bashed a bunch of glass. Isn't that cool? Yeah. There's something this powerful about it. There's like a fishbowl kind of face. That's good. Now, as an eight-year-old boy, did you feel like you had a lot of rage inside of you that needed to come out? No, I just wanted to break stuff. You just wanted to break stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was exciting to know there was a place you could go break stuff. Like, that got invented relatively, like, in our lifetime. The first time I heard about it, I was like, that seems fun. Do you have any questions? Yeah. Well, it's your favorite episode.

1:09:03Ooh, man. I think some of my favorites are, like, the Big Bend ones. Have you ever been out there to West Texas? Yeah. With Big Bend. do you do you like all the like the goofy stuff yeah how bad your acting is oh he's a critic hey it's okay it's true i didn't get into this job because i was a good actor i just kind of weaseled my way in i think that's how we heard about the goat mayors remember yeah oh yeah i thought we knew that before we even knew that his channel existed i don't know those are fun yeah yeah yeah that's funny do you watch on youtube uh sometimes yeah it's like people your age call it channels.

1:09:45It's like I'm not on a channel. I have a channel. We have iPads and then the big TV. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. That's cool. Big Bend is one of my favorites. I like the ones where I get to go swimming. That's my favorite thing to do. Texas summer is way too hot, man. Figuring out how they made the pool look Olympic. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wasn't that funny? Yeah. They just put them on a rope and pulled them back, and so they looked like they were swimming forever. Yeah. Remember we went to that pool with the rope swing? You liked that one. Where was that? Landa? Lambo? What's the one in Sam? Oh, Landau.

1:10:21No. Landa Park. Yeah, Landa Park. That's awesome. Yeah. We did Balmory. He liked that. That's the best. So cold, though. Do you have any other questions? Yeah. What's your least favorite episode? Least favorite episode? I can't tell you that. Bastrop, man. That was a snoozer. I got a bad shave in Bastrop. Nothing cool was in Bastrop. They didn't have any good bookstores. Bastrop. Oh, no. Yeah. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You know what? I don't have any least favorite episodes because, Clark, they're all attached to memories that I have of like being out there with my family or my crew. And so like they all kind of have little pieces of my brain.

1:10:59This is cool. Guess what I get to do tomorrow? What? I'm going to go to a dig park where adults and kids get to drive full bulldozers and excavators around and dig stuff up. Like full size ones. Where's that? Katie. Ooh, that's fun. We should do that. Yeah, it's called Dig World. I can't wait. I've never driven an excavator. It sounds like something that would be near Kyle. It does. It does. It does. I try to make the best out of every place. So I don't really have a least favorite. Yeah. I think that the Texas pool was kind of just weird because there was that one island in the middle. I know.

1:11:36And they said it was supposed to be Dallas, but it wasn't in the right spot. Yeah. Okay. Should have been like. Yeah, you watched some new ones. Trick question, movie magic. Do you think I actually held my breath that whole time? No, I thought I made it look good. I didn't hold my breath that whole time. I was the only person in there and it was freezing cold. And so I was almost. You left on part. I did, I did, yeah. We do a lot of really silly stuff on the show. Especially how bad you're acting is. We're coming back to that. Oh, what's up? Uh-oh. Now I'm really in the hot seat. I got both of them.

1:12:15The bobs asking me questions. I want to keep my job. Evidently, my acting's not so good. Hey, buddy. What's your name? Jones. Jones. A-O-N-E-S. Jones is a great name, man. That is a great name. So, sir, have you ever seen The Daytripper? Yeah. Yeah? Okay, how is my acting? Linda. Linda. Yeah, thank you. What? It's some of my best stuff. When I put on a mustache, you don't even know it's me anymore. I just disappear completely, right? No. No? What? I thought that was really good. What about a wig? I mean, like I transform into the character. The girl wanted Tombow. This is terrible. Clark and Jones, next time I need to put someone in a wig and a dress, I'll bring y 'all out there.

1:13:05Y 'all can be actors. Maybe y 'all do a better job. Jonesy, do you want to go give him a tour of the bookstore? Yeah. Yeah? Or do you have a question? No. Question. Would you rather eat a barbecue or a cheeseburger? A barbecue. Oh, okay. Okay. A cheeseburger, but I could just pull out the cheese. Oh, you don't like cheese? No. Cartoon is to do an eating challenge. It's an ice cream one. Yeah, but he's pumped about the idea of an eating challenge. It's a giant ice cream bowl with a bunch of flavors and just a donut and a chocolate bar, and I think some fudge. Whoa. That sounds legit. Hey, listen, I just had this.

1:13:40This is the first time I ever saw it. They cut a donut in half. They took an ice cream. They put the donut around it and then they put it in a waffle iron and it sealed the donut up around the ice cream ball. It was amazing, Jones. Amazing. All right, let's go see that bookstore. I'll show you. Thanks so much for listening. If you could rate this podcast and leave a review on iTunes, that would mean so much to us and it would really help the show. We appreciate it and I'll see you next episode.

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