Why You Should Slow Down and Market Intentionally to Make an Impact (with Ann Handley)

0:00Hey, it's Dave. So Zoom Webinars and Events has made our recent Exit 5 Live sessions way more pro lately. But don't just take my word for it. Check this out. This is what Kelly B said. She said, I compare all other webinars now against Exit 5. I love that. And look, in a world of AI slop, we just want to make something that's actually worth going to. It's not easy to get an hour out of your day. I'm just the on-air talent, though. So I'm going to kick it over to Marissa and Maria. This is our Exit 5 Live production team, our content team here at Exit 5, since they're the ones actually making this all happen.

0:29And Marissa.

0:30Ann Handley: I've been doing B2B content a long time. I know. It's hard to hold attention for more than 30 seconds, let alone a whole webinar. But Zoom webinars helps. Recently, we've had nearly 2 ,000 registrants, over 500 live, and hundreds of hours of watch time on our sessions. Maria, what would you say is driving that? It all starts with prep. We do up to seven hours per session. Choosing a topic, prep calls, building the run of show, and so much more. With Zoom webinars and events, everything's in one place. registration, emails, polls, analytics. So it's simple to run that cycle every two weeks. At Showtime, I hand it back to Marissa in Zoom's production studio.

1:06Ann Handley: With Zoom's production studio, I can set the scenes in advance. So on the big day, I just send them live with speakers and content already in place. Clean transitions, crystal clear audio and video. I feel like I'm running the big game back there. So this is why our webinars have been crushing it lately. Look, they just said we're spending seven hours per session on this. And don't just take our word for it. Come and see firsthand. And we run these every other Friday. It's called Exit 5 Live, now powered by Zoom webinars and events. So come and check us out, see this whole thing live. And if you want to learn more about using Zoom at your company, check out zoom.com slash exit five.

1:39That's zoom.com slash exit five. Hey, it's me, Dave. Today's episode is brought to you by Convertive, a B2B marketing agency that helps enterprise teams build an AI-powered go-to-market strategy. Q4 is the time of year when having a great agency partner matters more than ever. If you're shopping for a new agency, Convertive is worth looking into. They work with marketing and operations leaders to help grow revenue across the business and AEO. One of the things I know you're thinking about right now is one of their specialties. Trusted by companies like DocuSign, Databank, and Constructor, Convertive builds on the search and marketing work you're already doing and helps optimize your site so more of your buyers find you and turn it into pipeline.

2:19Right now, they're offering Exit 5 listeners a free AI search review. They'll run the questions your buyers are actually asking through your Google and AI tools, show you how you stack up against competitors, and tell you what's worth fixing. If you're looking for a refresh of your AEO strategy in 2027, this AI search review with Convertive is a great place to start. Check it out. It's convertive.com slash exit5. That's convertive.com slash exit5. And you can also see the link in the show notes. You're listening to The Dave Gerrard Show.

2:52One, two, three, four, exit. One, two, three, four, exit. Really excited about our next guest. She's one of the most respected voices in marketing, a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, and the world's first chief content officer. She's a partner at Marketing Profs, entrepreneur, and the author of Everybody Writes, a bestselling guide to creating marketing and business communications people want to pay attention to. IBM named her one of seven people shaping the future of marketing. She's built two multi-million dollar companies, inspires more than a million followers across social, and writes a popular newsletter read by over 50 ,000 subscribers.

3:33Just found out she is a staunch advocate of the M-dash, right? Hey, these are your people. She lives in Boston, loves dogs, collects vintage typewriters, and is the author of a forthcoming fourth book out in 2027 that I'm sure after seeing her speak, you will be rushing to go get. Please bring the energy up. Give me a warm welcome for Anne Hanley.

3:58Have fun. Thank you so much. Hi. How you doing? Who is the vendor who has this M-Dash Forever? I don't know who that was, but we got to talk. I am so delighted to be here at this event. And it occurs to me that for the past few days, we've been talking about, you know, what is this event actually about? It's about driving business forward. It's about sales. It's about marketing. It's about figuring out how to make an impact. But I want to start today with a simpler question, I guess, which is what is marketing for? Now, a lot of people here, a lot of us believe that marketing is all about driving growth, right?

4:50About driving leads and MQLs and all the things that can contribute to a business moving forward and growing and all of that stuff that we love. But that's not what good marketing actually does. Good marketing is actually how ideas travel. It's how people decide what to believe in and who to believe, and most importantly, who to trust. That's actually what good marketing is. And it's joyful work. It is important work. But lately, it's felt overshadowed by a kind of tension. And instead of feeling like joyful work, it's almost felt like a battle. It's felt, in fact, like an epic battle that seeps into everything that we do.

5:44It's a battle of craft against efficiency. It's a battle of speed about taking our time. Now, I know you know what battle I'm referring to, right? That's right. I'm referring to the epic battle at the heart of Episode 8 of Mighty Mouse, The New Adventures, which premiered 39 years ago in the fall of 1987. Now, I know most of you here are familiar with Episode 8 of Mighty Mouse, The New Adventures, which premiered 39 years ago in 1987. Just like a quick show of hands, is there anyone here who is not familiar with Episode 8 of Mighty Mouse? Okay, so it looks like two or three of you.

6:41So let me give you a quick refresh on this story. Mighty Mouse and his staff, they call themselves the League of Super Roads. They're sitting around in their secret lair. they appear to be in front of a statue. Now remember that statue for later. Mighty Mouse is complaining to all of his colleagues of the League of Super Rodents about how terrible business has been lately. There hasn't been a single jaywalker. They haven't been able to respond to anything. We all have special and unique talents, he says. We all have artistic capabilities if only we had an opportunity to use them. If only we could use them in a productive way, he says.

7:25If only. If only what? Only some possibly powered criminal genius would hurl a challenge at us.

7:38It's the cow. None other. You sniveling super weasels and don't even try to run. Don't even try to run. The cow is a supervillain.

7:52I didn't write this. What's more, the cow is a male cow, which is wonderfully inclusive for 1987. Isn't it? Because he's got the udders. Because he's a male cow. You know, who don't normally have... You know how you're not supposed to explain a joke? But I felt like it just didn't really land, so I explained the joke. The cow then dares the entire league of super rodents to fight him one by one. Mighty Mouse sits this one out because he is the worst kind of CMO. I mean, he's the worst kind of boss. The super rodents fly into battle. First comes the gas gopher. He has little gas bags. Next is the scamper hamster.

8:40Guess what his superpower is? Scampering! That's like endorsing a marketer on LinkedIn for, like, slack skills. Just ridiculous. No one can defeat him, but wait, remember what I told you. This statue appears to still be very much in the scene. This is when we realize that the statue is actually the Chekhov's gun of this entire episode, after Russian playwright Anton Chekhov, who said that if you show a gun in one scene, you have to be sure to fire it in the next. So remember the statue and remember Chekhov's gun now too. The cow puts all of the super rodents in the hospital. Look what's still there though.

9:28And remember what I told you because pretty soon, look what's getting closer. Look at the smug look on that cow's face. And closer, it's not a statue. In fact, it's alive. It's an alive sloth. And it's not just any sloth. It's a superhero sloth. And as the cow is prancing around...

9:55Here it goes. That's the gun. Straight to jail. So who is this sloth? The rampaging sloth. He saved us. His super slow motion slam may take a while, but when it gets thin, it sure packs a wallop. It sure packs a wallop. Pretend that you are a child in 1987 and you're on the floor of your family's family room and you're watching this show on TV. On the one hand, we have the supervillain Cap, right? He's fast. He's efficient. He dispenses with everybody at lightning speed. any job in front of him, whether it's somebody scampering around him or whether it's a gas gover, he's got it. On the other side, we have the League of Super Rodents.

10:46These are the earnest and the specialized artists that are fighting the super villain. But more than that, they are fighting for the soul of their lair themselves. They are fighting for the soul of the city. And then we have the superhero sloth, the rampaging sloth, who comes in and just by taking his time, slowly and carefully winds up and packs a... Let's try that again. Okay. Slowly and carefully winds up and packs a... Yes! So good! Now, even a child without media training in 1987 can see the obvious moral of this story, right? The story is that the cow is bad. Sloth is good. And as humans, we agree.

11:41The cow is a jerk. He's a bully. But in marketing, we've kind of flipped the script. In marketing, we celebrate cow mode. the efficiency, the power, the speed at which we can, wait for this because I'm really proud of it, milk ROI. This is a fake LinkedIn profile. I don't know if you guys can tell. I thought this was really funny when I made it. Thank you. I'm so desperate for someone to acknowledge that how funny that was. All right. Milking ROI. Meanwhile, we actively avoid sloth mode, right? We avoid all of these slower approaches that over time might pack a wallop. And we avoid them not because we don't want to move slowly, but because in marketing, a slower approach very much sounds like we are falling behind.

12:38And so the sloth rarely gets a chance to wallop. He never gets a chance to use that slow motion slam. So why is that though? Like why is an industry that is built on creativity and connection, why do we operate at cow mode all the time? So I've been thinking about this and I think there are a number of reasons. I want to talk about four of them now just quickly. First is that marketing is unusually visible, right? Everything that we do shows up on a dashboard. We work in very short cycles. We have weekly reporting, daily metrics. We refresh, refresh. We're looking for opportunities all the time to show that we're connecting with the people we seek to connect with.

13:23We also sit very, very close to revenue pressure. And when pipeline dips, we're going to hear about it. And what's more, digital tools have trained us to optimize for volume, how big a program is getting, not necessarily for value. And I know Dave mentioned this to you already, but we got to just talk about this for a second because this is not an AI tell, okay? And I know because there are four of them in this slide and I wrote this slide. It's not an AI tell. This keeps us locked in what I call a performance paradox, right? Which says that what's easiest to measure often matters least, while what truly matters is harder to see.

14:10We chase what we can chart, and it makes sense because we want to show the value, but it keeps us locked in cow mode. And I know this seems like a joke, but this is actually my marketing manager walking into the office last week. And I'm like, that seems right. In a fast culture, speed very much reads as competence, right? Even when it's not progress, even when it's not pushing us in the direction that we want to move in. And now on top of it, we have added AI. We've added all of it, right? Which has poured gasoline on this sort of cow energy that has already existed in marketing. The thing is, I think it's time for us to stop the madness.

14:57We need to invite the sloth into our marketing directly because the sloth is not going to show up on its own. Marketing already has plenty of cow energy. I think we need to invite the sloth in when we need the slow rampage because we need to recognize how the sloth can actually benefit our programs. but more than that, how it can help us differentiate each of us, ourselves, as well as what we're selling and as well as how we're selling it. Oh, sup? I forgot about him. The truth is that it doesn't have to be a battle. The truth is that it doesn't have to be cow versus sloth. I think the two can very much work together.

15:42I think that the future of marketing is knowing when to cow, when to move fast, when to just go as quickly as you can and get things done, and when to not do that. Right? When to sloth. Okay, you with me? All right, good. I also would say that I think because AI has tossed that rocket fuel onto the cow, it's actually requiring us to sloth. I actually think we don't really have a choice because as we've seen in marketing, when you just layer AI on top of everything, when you just layer that loose cow energy on top of anything, it just, it doesn't work out so well. And there are two reasons why I think we need to think about inviting the sloth in.

16:26First, and you all know this more than almost anybody else, AI has totally changed the job. The old job was to create reach and familiarity and be visible, be as visible as we could. The goal was very much to be seen, to let people know about us, to build that top of funnel. But now the job has shifted and the job is harder, I think. It's not just about being seen, now it's about being chosen. We need to be understood. People need to understand what our programs are all about, which means that they need to trust us. They need to see us, but they also need to know that they can trust when we say that we are who we are.

17:08And ultimately, we need to also be unforgettable, which is a really hard job, but it's about being chosen. I think that the new job is to think about before choice is on the table for any of our customers, for any of our prospects, do they trust us, do they remember us, and do they love what we're all about? So the second reason why I think we need to rethink cow energy and invite the sloth in is because loose cow energy is literally everywhere. If you've been on LinkedIn, you see it. It's everywhere. And it's actually not even just in marketing. It's in everything that we do. Like, for example, this news article, at the very end of it, oh, I know, the gasp.

17:58The gasp. So real. By the way, you see that M-dash? This is why we have trouble. Guess who wrote it? Just take a guess. This guy. Trying to be real cute. Brand new research from our friend Andy Crestedina. Actually, it's so new. It just came out today. I saw that he announced it. It points to a sort of disturbing trend of loose cows in marketing. What Andy did, and what you're looking at here, is part of a bigger study that he did on the effectiveness of content in marketing in 2026. But what you're looking at here is a chart that shows how nine different content practices that he's been tracking over the past 13 years correlate with results.

18:48And that sort of gaping maw in the middle is telling you the story. What's down by 30 % over all of that time is all the things that ultimately gives us more success in our marketing program. So things like craft, paying attention to writing, paying attention to how we're telling stories, research and editing and analysis and collaboration that we do either with outside influencers or internal influencers or with other brands. All of this stuff is sort of disappearing and results are sinking. Now, AI did not create loose cow energy. In fact, it's sort of always been part of marketing. we've always loved the sort of shortcut.

19:31We're always looking for the ability to do things faster and quicker. And I asked my designer for help with this. I said, I wanna make it really clear. So in all caps, can you say that AI didn't create loose cow energy? And she said, absolutely. I honestly thought that would be a bigger laugh line. So there we go, it's in all caps. So it didn't create it, but I think it did scale it. The truth is that we in marketing have always had a bit of a crush on shortcuts. Anything that promises like more and faster and easier when I come to mama. Like we want that. For example, let's look at Justin who emailed me with a subject line.

20:14The only Dave in marketing apparently, Dave LinkedIn is the subject line, Dave LinkedIn post. And he says, hey, your interest in Dave Gerhard's post tells me, okay. Is he the one Dave in marketing? And then, oh, there he is. I guess he is the one Dave in marketing. Then he followed up Justin a few days later. Hey, Anne, just bringing this back up in case it got buried. And then a few days after that, Anne, did I lose you? We've all been through these sort of, you know, this cold email outreach. But the thing like in this case, I just feel like, did I lose you, Anne? No, you never had me. Because you know who does?

20:54Yeah. Like, let me have my little crush on Dave in private. And don't make it into, like, some sort of demand-gen trigger. You know what I mean?

21:09It's just... Then a month later, it's like we never met. You know? Dave, my favorite... Give it up for us.

21:23My favorite part of that, this email though, Dave, is his content is great. I love it. So good. So yeah, we've always had a crush on these sort of efficiencies in marketing, but of course efficiency isn't the super villain, right? We all have used these sort of outreach. I'm not saying that that by itself is terrible. I'm saying the actual villain is when we have speed but without judgment. When we over-rely on automation and personalization and frequency and efficiency, that's when we get into trouble. We have spent years in marketing asking, how can we make more faster? But now I think the conversation has shifted.

22:05I think the better question today and the critical question today is what deserves more of us? What deserves more of that rampaging sloth. What needs less cow energy? Oh, I forgot. Hey, stop. The thing is, reach and frequency and speed, like we've always been about how do we move somebody from attention to action as soon as possible? And like, that's a perfectly fine way to operate, or it was, until the environment that we find ourselves in now. Because now, if the job has shifted, if the job is no longer just about attention, but it's about trust and memory and making people love us just a little bit.

22:49Those are the moments that deserve more of us. Then I think the idea has shifted. I think we need a new kind of ASAP from as soon as possible to as slow as possible when the stakes call for it, when it matters most, when the stakes are high enough. I think the trick, of course, is knowing when to cow and when to sloth. When do we move fast? When is fast the better way? And when do we not? We have a choice. When do we want to slow down and give it more of ourselves? So let's map this out together. I've created what I call the ASAP matrix, the as slow as possible matrix. And this is what helps us decide when do we slow down and when do we speed up.

23:39So on one axis, we're measuring impact, the impact over time. How lasting is the effect of a program? How lasting is the effect of something that we want to learn? Hey, it's Dave. Today's episode is brought to you by Optimizely. If you want to know what AI agents can actually do for a marketing team, Optimizely is where I'd point you to right now for a real example. Last month, we ran an Exit 5 live session where a bunch of our members showed off their best AI agent use cases. And McKeel, director of AI innovation at Optimizely, actually won the whole session. He showed us how he used Optimizely's AI agent platform to run an ABM campaign that gave 2 ,000 accounts their own landing pages built from signals like job postings, press releases, and leadership changes.

24:24That's like the holy grail of ABM, by the way. Optimizely's agent platform is built specifically for you, the B2B marketer. You can build your own agents like McKeel did or pull from a directory of 50 plus pre-built ones made just for marketing use cases all in one place. They also just launched virtual teammates. These are digital members of the team that learn over time and can join meetings, complete tasks, support campaigns, and keep your website optimized. If you're being asked to look into AI agents right now, Optimizely should be at the top of your list. Go and see how they can help you reclaim your time and build cool stuff just like McKeel did.

24:57Check them out at Optimizely.com slash exit five. That's optimizely.com slash exit5.

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26:05Does this matter beyond this moment? Does it have lasting impact? On the other axis, we have the growth potential. How much growth is there in this for the business, for the programs, but also for us? And when you put these two things together, these two axes together, you get four quadrants, It's four very different ways of throwing up, of showing up in the world or throwing up. Like, I guess either is fine. So down here, bottom left, when the impact is fleeting and when the growth potential is low. This is the autopilot mode, right? This is low growth, fleeting impact. It's the everyday stuff you do, the boxes to check, the things you can move through quickly, get some assistance, whatever you need to do.

26:54Traveling now to the top left, this is what I call the flash zone, right? This is sort of the dopamine quadrant. This is the area where you, you know, you hit publish and maybe you get a flurry of responses. Maybe you get a spike of intention or a spike of enthusiasm about what you're doing. But the impact is fleeting. It's growth but with shallow roots. You know, it's kind of like a sugar high. So sugar is fine. Like it's fine every once in a while. But this is where a lot of our marketing lives right now. It's the short-term view instead of taking a longer-term view. It's fine for energy, but terrible for endurance.

27:31And then bottom right here, we have impact, right? The imperfect leap. The decision that we make with the best information that we can at the moment. It may not catapult you forward, but it sustains you. It's a little bit of a gamble because you don't know exactly what's going to happen. You don't know that it's going to work. but might fizzle, might not. But it's an area where I think we take something away from it, right? It can teach us something. And then finally, upper right, it's high growth and lasting impact. This is where the rampaging sloth thrives. That's where slowing down can actually create the advantage for us, for our businesses, and for our skills internally as well.

28:12The ASAP matrix helps you decide. It asks you to consider these questions When do we move fast? When do we slow down? And when does something deserve more of each of us? It invites us to be asking these two questions. Does this grow who we are or just what we ship? Does this matter to us long-term? And does this build something lasting, like trust or memorability? Are people going to remember who we are? Are they going to love us a little bit? Or does it just by a moment. Two very practical questions that can change the way you think about your marketing. Now, I have a lot to say about this, so I'm just going to ask the clock to reset for, I don't know, like four hours.

29:01You good? Dave, it's good? Yeah, whatever I want. He says, great. I haven't technically announced this book yet, but a lot of people know about it. So I say, yeah, kind of secret new book. It doesn't have a cover. It's a source of anxiety for me at this moment, but it's coming in February 2027. So for now, I want to share with you two ways where I think we can bring a little sloth energy into a very fast B2B marketing world, right? The first is tactical. Number one is to make meaning measurable. We need a way to identify the sloth's wallop before the sale actually shows up. I was really worried about having to say sloughs, wallop.

29:41It's a lot harder than it seems, okay, before the sales shows up. One reason why I think we default to speed in B2B marketing is because it's incredibly easy to measure, right? It's an easy thing to measure. Output is easy to count, but the value created by the slower work of a wallop is trickier to measure. So I've been thinking a lot about this, And I developed what I call the Wallop Tracker. It helps us recognize when or where we are building trust and where we are creating resonance and lasting value for our customers and for our prospects. You know, and I could have called it something else, but I kind of like Wallop Tracker.

30:25You know, it's just like a fun name. No? All right. All right. So the Wallop Tracker has three components, right? Three actual values, three ways that we can capture signals. And the first is stay. Did they choose to spend time with you? Second is act. Did they take a next step? And third is echo. Did it stay with them? So let me just walk you through this really quickly. Stay is not, you know, did they click? Did they download? It's actually, did they spend time with you? You can see it show up in things like this, like in read time or return visits to your asset, to your website, watch time on something, the scroll depth, say on a website or an email newsletter or any kind of email.

31:09Secondly is act. Did they take the next step? Did they do something? Again, not did they purchase yet, but did they actually do something? Did they share it? Did they comment on it? Did they reply to you? Did they go looking for you afterward in a situation like this? Was there any sort of interaction? And my favorite, by the way, for email is what I call Ober, or the open to write back rate, which some email programs more or less creatively call reply rate. But I like Ober because it's like, it is what it is. It says what it is. My other favorite one is a resubscribe rate. Does somebody reach out to you and tell you that they changed the jobs or they have a new place that they want to get your email or email newsletter and they're resubscribing with that email?

31:56Now, how do you know this? because you've built a relationship with them based on the reply rate. I track this obsessively with my own email newsletter. I track the Uber and I track the resubscribe rate. What are people telling me? Are they carrying me with them? So are they acting in a way that's ultimately going to benefit me? And the third is Echo. Were they moved in some way? Can you tell that there's some evidence of an emotional shift about how people feel about you? Not just what they're clicking on and how they're acting, but do they actually feel differently about you? And can you find it in places like this, like in comments or email replies to your email newsletter or your regular newsletter through social media conversations, for example, or direct messages or any of these things?

32:44I look for words like this, like I feel seen. I feel like you understand me 100%. I feel clear or reassured or inspired or surprised or connected, all of these signals to me mean that I'm forming an emotional connection with somebody, finding those moments that really echo with the person you seek to connect with. So not just did someone convert, what's the conversion rate, but also do they trust us? Do they remember us? Do they choose us? And what do you do with this? You can use the wallet tracker to make better bets. So for example, keep what compounds. If something actually feels like it's starting to resonate, you can keep that, compound it, work on it over time, improve what gets attention but isn't quite building that echo just yet.

33:33You can ditch what keeps you busy but is ultimately forgettable, or you can invest where customers show you that the work matters. So I think of it with these four, like it helps me figure out all of these things. The second thing that the slow rampage can do, the second way to rampage responsibly, is to consider that measurement alone isn't actually enough. Because the thing is, the sloth is not motionless. Even though it seemed like he was motionless, he actually was winding up. The power of that slow motion slam ultimately is in the windup. It's in the moment that happens before any kind of impact.

34:17The wind-up in marketing right now is where judgment gets built, right? It's where we have patience. We notice patterns. We look at where we're building resonance with our audience and relationships. And we're resisting that urge to scale something just because it got a little spike. It's asking you to look a little deeper. So let's put these two things together. The wallop and the windup in action. And I want to end today with just a story. It's not a story about a brand that is very obvious, and it does not have a massive budget. It's not a Super Bowl ad, but I think it's a very special look at how you can see this sort of slow motion slam in action.

35:04So here's the story. This is the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. These, yeah. Are you from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District? I would literally die if you were. Or just Northeast Ohio? Ohio. These guys, the kings of Twitter when it was Twitter. So good. For example, fondly remember, all the hours you scrolled Twitter in the bathroom, sewers were there for you first. will be there for you last. This is the day Elon Musk took over Twitter. It was just a poignant moment of just unity. Or this one. It's poetry, really. In the warm sun at the easterly wastewater plant in Northeast Ohio, a brick-faced tower casts a long shadow over the asphalt.

36:00Trucks come and they go. They're hauling landfill, chock full of remnants of things we flush away. Just think, the seed. The seed that grew this tomato plant must have been yours.

36:20Like, so gross, but so, so rich, you know? Now, this seems so random, but there's actually a content strategy and a marketing strategy behind the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District on Twitter. There are three goals that they have with all of their marketing on Twitter and more broadly as well. Number one is a better understanding of municipal infrastructure. A thing that we never think about until we do, right? Until something goes wrong, until something is awful, and then you're aware of municipal infrastructure. So number one is a better understanding. Secondly is visibility for people who work there.

37:01They're celebrating the people who are working at the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. This matters mostly because of recruitment. They want to show how people are valued there. And the third point here is because flushable wipes are not flushable. If you take nothing else from this presentation today, just remember this. It's in the name. It is a lie. It is a lie, people. They have the data to show you. Now, these guys, as I said, are just the kings of Twitter, and they are far outperforming any other regional. Like, look at it. That's the regional sewer district on this far left here.

37:42San Antonio and Philly and Houston, they're just like nothing compared to these guys. They have more Twitter followers or X followers per customer than almost any other utility in the country. It's years of showing up consistently. slowly building that relationship with their audience and in a fun way that relies on craft that always ladders up to the broader strategy that they have. And this isn't just on Twitter. This is not just on social. This is not just a social story. In fact, they're also really great at breaking news. For example, you know, I'm a Swifty and so are they because look, like Taylor and Travis just bought this huge house.

38:26Yeah. I mean, look at, hey, look, new customers. Just imagine. So that's breaking news for some of us. That's big. Or for example, this is their newsletter. They have a sub stack that I subscribe to. I should mention, by the way, that I live in Boston. I do not live in Ohio. I don't care about municipal infrastructure all that much. But these guys, I'm like, whatever they do, I subscribe. This is their newsletter. And just look at the writing. They're on a tour of the pipes underneath the city. Vince Fetrano narrated our journey like a Netflix documentary, it says. And it's so visceral, right?

39:06It's like where sludge is incinerated and energy generated. Every step has a sound like a... as our boots tread upon... Like, come on, that is just such beautiful writing. You can hear it. You read it, but you can also hear it. It's just, it's so great. I'm like right there with Vince, just who's wearing that plaid shirt. I'm just like all in it with him. So I was a massive, massive fan of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District, just basically based on their content. And when I saw this, I thought this has to be like a big agency, right? This has to be somebody who really knows what they're doing.

39:42It's got to be this big, expensive agency that somehow they had the budget for. But no, it turns out it's one guy named John Gonzalez. He is, and he's not even like the head of marketing. He's like a manager there. He's the human face for all of this. Actually, it's a funny story, but I was in Ohio at an event, at a content event. And I was on the show floor and I saw John Gonzalez, who had only known through his LinkedIn picture. I saw him like across the hallway and I said to my colleague, I was like, oh my God, it was John Gonzalez. And she goes, who? And I was like, that's John Gonzalez. I was like, I got to go say hi to him.

40:27And she's like, okay. So we go over to John Gonzalez. I'm like, John, oh my God, I'm like so delighted to meet you. I'm just like, hi. And he's standing here. He takes a giant step back. He's like, oh. And then he reaches in his tote bag. And I think he's going to like pull out a taser, you know? He's like, get this crazy person away from me. And he pulls out a sheet of stickers that had from the Northeast Ohio regional sewer district and it said the stickers on top it said thank you for being an influence sewer i mean i don't know what we're doing in marketing next to this guy

41:11damn when i talked to him though i realized something that is so important it's just like He was so, like, he's unassuming because Ohio, right? But also, like, he was very humble and just laid back. And, like, he just was not that interested in celebrating all that he'd done. And it occurred to me just how much he pushed himself, like, pushed himself completely out of his comfort zone to be the face of this infrastructure, of this municipal infrastructure company. Like, for example, here's what he did on TikTok.

42:14feed washed his kitchen grease down the drain oh no my billy boy no soon may the sewer men come to unclog our pipes or flows may run one day when the clogging is done we'll carry car leave and go so good isn't that great i don't know if you noticed this either but my favorite part of this lyrics by intern kevin like yeah i don't know who kevin is that's not kevin i don't know who that This is like some influencer on TikTok. And he just did this. Anyway, just interned Kevin. I hope he's doing well. So I was already like super impressed with John Gonzalez. Then I noticed that right before the holidays, he put out this message on social across every one of their social channels.

43:02In fact, I have something to say with a phone number. Now, I don't know if any of you, like sometimes you see like on packaging that it'll be like a pasta or a salad brand and there'll be a phone number? You know, did you ever see that? Like, tell us how we're doing? Did you ever call it? I do. And half the time, you either get like a recorded message or like one time I called and I got a fax machine. Like, in 2026? Come on! But this is Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. This is John Gonzalez. He would never do that to us. So here's what happens. You call that phone number and you get a two-minute recording.

43:46It's John Gonzalez's voice. Now remember, this is right before the holidays, okay? And here's what the recording says in part. I'm not going to play the whole thing, but just in part. Maybe you're struggling with something that no one else knows about. Maybe you're just trying to make ends meet between paydays. Maybe you lost something or someone close to you and you don't really know what a holiday season will look like without you. But holidays, I think in the year, holidays in particular, are really a list of most families, both good and bad, that come from anywhere and know they just feel overwhelming at times.

44:17So let me tell you right now that you're not alone. As you show, you should reconnect people, and your super-built does not equal one kind of connection. But I think the next team made a culture really improve something. And I would say that they improve the race in human science and infrastructure. that holiday joy is not as you're experiencing or that uncertainty or anxiety. It's not as for isolation. There is a very real, very hidden, but an honest human condition to catch all of us. And I'm grateful for that. So it's this two-minute message. And then at the end of the message, he invites you to leave a message for either him or somebody on his team, anybody at the Northeast Ohio Regional State District.

44:59So let's listen to a few of the messages he got. Who would ever think that a sewer district would bring so much joy, laughter, and emotion, really? Thank you so much for all that you do, everybody there. So one more. Wow. That's what we're all. I'm celebrating. You're with my 98-year-old mother. I don't know if it's really a year. You're not just like, that's happened to me. Oh, I was doing just with the brain of the tears. God bless you all. You guys are diabolical for laughing at that. It's a 98-year-old mother. What do you mean? She's sobbing, right? So I called up John, and I said, you got a lot of calls, huh?

45:53And he said, yeah. And I said, how many? He said, 3 ,200 calls. They left all collectively, that's four hours of voicemail. And John Gonzalez is just like such an angel of a man. I said, did you listen to all of them? And he said, of course I did. And I said, what were you doing while you're listening to them? I'm just looking for a little color, John. You know, give me anything. And he goes, I was at my desk. What do you do with that, John? Just like, tell me a story about it, you know? Anything? Nothing. These calls came from all over the world, like not just Ohio, like you heard Boston, which is not me, by the way.

46:34Someone thought that once. It wasn't me. It was from Boston, from all over the U.S., but also like from Canada, from New Zealand, from Australia, like all over the place. But I think this one is my favorite. It's the last one. Did I think that it may be that I would be getting street therapy from a store district in Ohio as a resident of Boston, Massachusetts? I did not. But this was so wonderful. And I wanted to leave a message to say you put some tears in my eyes. And I hope that the folks that work with you who may be having a hard time this time of year, like me, missing my dad, I just want to send a message to particularly people that you work with who may also be missing someone.

47:31to know that they're not alone. They isn't. That there is always something to look forward to. And there is always an opportunity to think of the people that you miss and have it be a moment of warm connection with them. I just want to thank you for doing this. And yes, happy holidays. Bye. Like the way she can barely eke out that last bite. I don't know, something about that just touches me. So John Gonzalez is just the epitome of somebody who just makes sure that the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District matters so much. So it's not about mooing harder as the loose cow would do, right? It's about mattering more.

48:23How do we figure out how to matter more to the people who matter to us? It's not just about how work is performing, but I think more than that, how it is compounding, how you are building those relationships over time, how you're building trust and preference. And what's more than that, like how do you become unforgettable? Because here's the actual truth. As much as we're here to learn about marketing, as much as we've been talking about marketing, I don't think that the rampaging sloth is just about business. Actually, it's about you and it's about me and Dave. It's about all of us together.

49:00The truth is that the cow and the sloth live inside marketing, inside of our programs, but they also live inside each of us, inside our standards that we show up with, inside your attention and where you focus it and where you don't, inside your patience and what you're building and what you're not, and inside what you decide is good enough. When tools can be an easy solution, but yet when you can say no, right? and when you can use them more effectively. Because the thing is, in 2026, speed is cheap, it's easy, and speed is abundant. But it's not what's going to get you there. When speed is cheap, it's judgment that carries a premium.

49:43I know, she's still twirling me with her all caps too. So thank you so much. I think that what we all have taken away from these past few days together is definitely the relationships that we've built, but I hope that you will also carry with you some judgment and some taste. And more importantly, just like the joy in marketing, right? It just is such a joyful place. So thank you so much for your time. That's my dog. I promised you a picture of him. I know, that's Augie. I miss him so much. Seth bought his dog. I didn't know that was an option. So again, thank you so much for your time today. It's been lovely to be here.

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50:57People are in there posting every day, asking questions about things like marketing, planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you can have a peer group. Or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest. It's 100 % free to join for seven days, so you can go and check it out risk-free. and then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year. Go check it out, learn more, exit5.com and I will see you over there in the community.

51:36Hey, it's me, Dave. Today's episode is brought to you by Customer.io. They're one of our longest running sponsors. Customer.io helps marketing teams get more impact from every message they send so you can reach the right people with the right message at the right moment. And what we love about Customer.io is that they have a great team of marketers who really care about the craft. They just get marketing and understand our audience. Molly, Rosie, and the team bring something creative. Every time that we work together at our Exit 5 event in Austin, they handed out cowboy boots in our newsletter.

52:05They shared an AI prompt cookbook. And at Drive last month, they were giving out Airbnb gift cards and AirPods. They believe marketing is a craft that takes creativity, thought, and taste. And no, AI can't do this part for you. The best teams treat AI as infrastructure and built the right way, it actually makes marketing feel more human, not less. Customer.io helps product teams build personalized campaigns across email, SMS, push, in-app, and webhooks using their own first-party data. And today, more than 9 ,000 brands trust Customer.io to send their messages, including Notion, Les Mills, and Angie.

52:37So if you need a new vendor to power your customer messaging, or you just want a great marketing team to follow, it's time to go and check out Customer.io. go to customer.io slash exit five. That's customer.io slash exit five.