Hall of Famer Pau Gasol on Basketball Going Global

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0:42Welcome back to the DL. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. All right, today we are at the big power players event in New York City. We've got a couple of big interviews lined up. We're going to be on stage with a lot of powerful sports people doing our thing. But today, you're going to hear our conversation with Pau Gasol. This guy, Alex, he blew me away. I mean, his experience as a player, now as an investor, he's got a huge amount of ambition. Yeah, I mean, for me, the two takeaways was the breadth of his experience globally and what an asset he can be, not only to the NBA and to the W, but to all leagues, because he really has a really good understanding.

1:20I think our listeners are going to really like it. Yeah, some amazing insights from him. You know, this is a guy who really was in one of the key waves of international players coming into the league. We take this for granted now. I know you probably take it for granted even a little bit, given some of the superstars you have on your roster. You know, but this was something that really dates back. And he talks about some key moments in his hometown of Barcelona that really set him, you know, on a path not just to be a star, but as you say, to sort of pave the way for this next generation. So a really fun conversation coming up next.

1:57Pau Gasol.

2:09Welcome back to The Deal. I'm your host, Jason Kelly, alongside my partner, Alex Rodriguez. So excited to have with us today Pau Gasol. He is a Hall of Fame basketball player. He's an investor, a man about town, a man about the world. Pau, really good to see you. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure, Jason. Thank you for having me, Alex. A pleasure to see you. Yeah. So let's jump right in. I mean, Pal, you sit at such an interesting nexus of the things that we care most about, you know, business, sports, culture. And one of the things that strikes me is this moment where we are in the game of basketball.

2:41And in a lot of ways, your career anticipated and was a harbinger of where we are today. It's a global game. It's international. We take that for granted now, but you were really on the front end of that. Tell us sort of how basketball got so popular over these intervening years as a global game. Yeah, it's been a process, right? It's been a long-term process. I think it starts a lot with international competitions. You know how probably the U.S. teams in Olympics and World Championships before they were college players and how probably the latest championships before the 92 Olympics kind of led to USA Basketball sending finally a team with the best professional players.

3:33The big boys. The big boys, yeah, the original dream team. That happened to be in my home country, in my natal city of Barcelona in 92, when I just turned 12 years old. So obviously that team inspired, I think, a lot of kids around the globe and showed how basketball could be played at the highest level and gave us a dream to a lot of kids. So I think that that was a big, big moment. You saw already great international players playing the game at that time. Savonis, Marciullinis, Kukoc, you know, Raja, players, Divac, Vlade Divac that also was one of the first guys. And you also saw the Rick Smiths, the Deadly Strams.

4:15You know, you got that first wave of international players. It was like, there's great talented players outside of the U.S. that play at a high level. And that brought us to the second wave of players, you know, with the Dirk Nowitzkis, with the Tony Parkers, the Andrei Kililenkos, and Peja Stojakovich, myself, that took it a step further. And then I think gave more confidence to NBA teams to continue to invest and spend time outside of the U.S. borders to look for outside talent, develop outside talent, too, and kind of take a gamble, if you will, or invest in them and give them an opportunity.

4:50So, yeah, I think the basketball, the NBA has done a great job also doing all kinds of stuff and efforts outside of the U.S., playing global games, basketball without borders, junior NBA. There's a lot of basketball academies now. So they've done a great job also putting a lot of time and effort and investment outside of that, allowing the game to grow, the business to grow, and the game to become so global. And so as you think about sort of where we are today, Pal, as you mentioned, you know, there's sort of the first wave, you're part of the second wave, and then there's this probably third wave that we're living in.

5:22And, you know, I think about Alex's team in Minnesota. He's got a couple international players who are absolute superstars. You know, Rudy Gobert just sort of being the veteran. And it came into play in the draft as well. How does the game think about, especially from the NBA's perspective, you know, really making its imprint on Europe in a way that both sort of respects what's already there, but also leverages its own power as a business? the NBA, that is. So how would you think about that? What's your advice there? Well, I think the NBA is working proactively in that particular matter precisely with the establishment or launching of a potential NBA European League, because the European League model has not worked very well.

6:14It's a great product, great level of basketball. All the are packed, it doesn't make money. My opinion is that it's just been poorly governed and the model just needs to evolve and change. So, you know, that's where the opportunity lies. That's where the need is. And that's what it's been kind of in the works for a couple of years, more proactively and intensively. And now we get into a point that we're finally seeing the light on that aspect. and it's very exciting because all he's going to do, I think, is provide the European League with, I think, a much more competitive side and edge and hopefully a league that can grow and get to have teams that are able to compete with the best teams in the NBA and also for players to be able to have the option that there's not such a big gap from the level or the salaries, let's say, and is more uniformed.

7:09And we'll see how it evolves and what the potential of growth is there. But there's no question that the NBA has become very international within itself at U.S. and American soil. We're just trying to see this in a great spot. Obviously, we're seeing the latest sales, the evaluations continue to grow. So it's great to see. It's very exciting. It's also great to see how the women's game is also growing and evolving and finally getting the impact, the relevance also and the notoriety that it deserved. So it's exciting times. It's exciting times for basketball, exciting times for sports. There's disruption, there's investment, there's a lot going on and a lot happening.

7:48But that's why we need great people also to take responsibility, to be able to define this new direction and take a little bit the reins of where sport is going and where you can go. Pressure's on you, Alex. Yeah. Following up on Jason, Pau, you know, There's some similarities between Major League Baseball and what Latin America was to MLB Baseball. It was just incredible talent pool. Probably 30, 40 percent of MLB Baseball came from Latin America, whether it's Dominican, Venezuela, Colombia, Cuba. 30 percent of the league comes from outside of the U.S. So I'm fairly new to the NBA and the W. What advice would you give my partner and I, Mark, on how do we put our best foot forward on a global stage?

8:31So players like you, the next 12-year-old can say, boy, I want to be a Minnesota Timberwolves or I want to go play for the Minnesota Lynx. What can we do better or more of? Yeah, I mean, I would have to see what you guys are already doing to give you a better and more accurate response there. But it sounds like you should hire Powell as a consultant, Alex. I mean, I'm looking at this happening right here in front of me. Open invite anytime. Yeah, obviously, I think you have to get people with a different view, experience, and background that kind of think outside of the box a little bit and can provide some ideas that will complement yours and your partners.

9:11Definitely, I think people that have that global background, that international background, and getting involved in the franchise. One of the opportunities, challenges is to how do you get former players more involved in playing a significant role that provides value to teams beyond the player development, beyond the coaching, beyond the broadcasting, beyond the kind of the more traditional, let's say, avenues. To me, I think one of the issues is kind of providing more education to some of those players to be able to verbalize, express and channel the knowledge and experience that they have in order to provide value to professional franchises, leagues and so forth.

9:51That's definitely something that I, you know, continue to do well as far as marketing the product overseas. Put your name in the pool as far as like, hey, we'd love to go play games in these markets, you know, whether preseasons, whether regular seasons, like we're seeing games in Paris, London that have happened and will continue to happen. So just continue to get out of that comfort zone to put your franchise name in a global stage. Obviously, you have a great team right now that has been very close to get into that final stage. Just continue. That's obviously something that you have to take advantage of.

10:25As you know, there's windows in professional sports. You don't know when that window is going to close. So you got to maximize it at all levels in order to produce those waves that will have an effect mid to long term and within your franchise on your club. So you guys are doing a great job. I'm excited to see you playing this role, Alex. You've been an incredible ambassador for sport, for baseball, obviously, but beyond that. And I love I love to see it. Thank you. Thank you. And so, Pal, you know, just sort of synthesizing a couple of things you've been talking about. I mean, you think about these windows of opportunity, you know, you mentioned the opportunities around women's basketball and specifically the W.

11:07I believe you've invested, you know, in the W. And so tell us about the decision to do that and sort of where you see this going over the next few years, because Alex is living it every day as the governor of the Lynx. I see it, you know, through my work. This is a critical moment and nothing is guaranteed. Yeah, well, I was part of the executive committee at the MBPA for a few years. And one of the topics that kind of came or was kind of recurring, I would say, how can we help the women? How can we help the WNBA? And it was all, the conversations were a lot about we got to support them monetarily.

11:46It was like, OK, well, that's good. And that sure helps in the short term. But what can we do in the longer term? I said, okay, we got to get more involved in the game. Yes, going to games helps, supporting our women athletes, endorsing the game, being ambassadors, being allies. All that is great, all of the above. But now can we invest, can we commit to it and believe in it? Because to me, part of it was obviously Kobe's legacy and example. He had four daughters. You know, Gigi was going to be a phenomenal player and was a phenomenal player. So he was already doing a lot to create that momentum.

12:31So I just wanted to, you know, kind of follow suit a little bit. I'm a girl dad myself. I wanted my girl, I want my girl to have the same opportunities as my son does. There's been this huge gap between women's sports and men's sports. So that was one way for me. There was an opportunity that came. It was a capital raise due to COVID. The league needed capital. And I was able to hear about this opportunity, having good relationships, having nurtured good relationships. And say, hey, do you want to invest in this round? I said, yes, absolutely. So I jumped in. And now I'm looking into investing in the WNBA franchise directly.

13:09And I've been talking to several to see which one makes the most sense for me to be involved with and invest directly. I love to see how the game is growing. I was at the All-Star Weekend in Indianapolis with my wife, supporting the game, supporting the event. Again, developing more relationships there as well. And I'm looking at a lot of different other women's sports that I could be a part of and invest. Me being part of the International Olympic Committee and being a member there, I just want to see sports continue to grow. Because with technology growing as fast as it is, we just kind of counter it with balance.

13:47and sports gives our kids so many great avenues to develop and to grow up healthy. And that's also part of what I want to continue to do. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too, Pal, to think about it. You know, is this blend of, you know, obviously having had the experience as an athlete, as you both have, and understanding the power of sports, but also understanding this is a growth investment area. We're all about deals here. I mean, presumably part of what you're seeing here, because you're also a very savvy investor, You have Gasol 16 Ventures, which is sort of your consolidated effort. Is it fair to say you see sort of like accelerated upside in women's sports as well?

14:28Yes, absolutely. I do. I truly do. There was a point in time when I made that investment that was like, investing in women's sports is not the right thing, but it's good business. Yeah. So it wasn't just like, oh, we feel morally compelled to invest and support women's sports. No, it's actually a really good business or a smart thing to do. Yes, it has other implications, but from the business standpoint, you know, if we start shifting kind of the money, the way it's been invested in sports, we'll see the results. We'll see the returns in many different ways. So, yes, that's kind of I totally believe in that.

15:09And that's why I'm also doing that as well, because I see great opportunities and I see great growth going forward.

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15:58I wanted to shift a little bit to your Laker days. I know that you and I share something in common and where we both played for two storied franchises, the Yankees and the Lakers, as really as big as they get. I played for an iconic owner in George Steinbrenner, and you felt his presence every day. You still do when he's passed almost 15 years ago. I'm wondering how was your experience with Dr. Buss and Jeannie Buss? I've always been a big Laker fan. I used to love Showtime with Pat Riley and Magic against the Celtics and Larry Bird and that crew. In your opinion, in your experience, obviously winning two titles helps.

16:36Was there anything you learned from Dr. Buss or the family on what makes the Lakers such an incredible franchise? Yeah, it was something that was very embedded, I think, to the family. You know, the feeling, the passion for the Lakers, how he was able to really turn around and create an iconic franchise, having moved from Minneapolis. The whole deal has just been, you know, it's an incredible story. When Jeannie took over, I think she's done an unbelievable job to doing that, kind of carrying over her dad and her family's legacy. It was a family business, and it was almost run as such. And there's a special care that goes into when you kind of go all in, and that's your wealth.

17:18That's your life. You know, you leave and breathe it. You know, he was a pioneer, a genius, a great mind that added things that impacted not just the Lakers but the league in its entirety. So I have great respect for Dr. Buss, great respect for the family. obviously honored that I was able to be a part and I'm a part of that franchise forever having my name retired and in the rafters along all the greatest Lakers of all time so obviously that's been one of my biggest honors that my my not just my career but my life and now exciting to to see I think how all that hard work and commitment has paid off with the latest sale at the$10 billion evaluation.

18:03And we hope it to be just as exciting as the previous one or as the current one. And obviously, I always will be rooting for my Lakers and hoping that they do great and hope that I can add to that picture as well in some shape or form. And, Pal, obviously the time at the Lakers establishes one of the most important relationships in your life, your friendship, deep friendship and connection with Kobe Bryant and his family, a relationship with his family that I know continues to this day. I wonder from your perspective what you learned from Kobe as a businessman because he was a dealmaker probably unlike many we've seen.

18:43Alex obviously is top tier. Magic, who's been on the show, is top tier. But, you know, Kobe, it's sad to think about like how much more he could have done as a businessman. And I'm sure you think about it all the time. But what did you learn from him that you apply as a dealmaker? Yeah, I think what I learned from him is, you know, he shifted kind of his mamba mentality into the business side or into every aspect, really, that he got involved with after basketball. And he was like, who are the best in the business? Let me reach out to him. Let me ask questions. Kind of the same thing that he did with Michael as a mentor.

19:20You know, he's like, hey, man, he is the guy that I want to be like. Well, then I want to surpass, not just be like. I want to be better than him. He's the best. He's the GOAT. Great. I'm going to learn from him. I'm going to just, you know, call him up anytime and ask him questions. And I want to, you know, be better than him. So same thing I think he did as a business or on the business side. He just identified people that were doing a great job or were some of the best in the business and connected with them and proactively just kind of got together with them and created great relationships.

19:54and channel that drive, that unique drive that he had into the business side, into doing, you know, even winning an Oscar. So, okay, we're going to do a short film. Let's do a short film, but I want to make the best short film, you know, there is. And I'm going to partner and learn from the best, and we're going to put a great team just as you would do in sports and get after the championship, you know? And that's, I guess, in the movie side, movie world is winning an Oscar. You know, same thing in business. And he was doing stuff to also help his peers because there's a lot of athletes that are, I won't say lost, but I'll say maybe they do lack of direction and proper structure around them and guidance.

20:37So he wanted to help athletes to be more educated, to provide them with opportunities and avenues for them to be financially stable for the rest of their lives, which is the greatest part of their life or of our life, being former athletes. So how can we do that? How can we address that issue where most athletes, pro athletes that have won and earned millions of dollars go bankrupt within a few years of their retirement? So he was trying to address that issue. So, again, learning, asking questions, identifying who's the best, reaching out. I said, I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room.

21:12I want to surround myself with great, smart people. And I'll add to that, you know, and that's kind of what I've learned from him a lot. I think that's something that Magic also has said also in different occasions. He said, I don't know much about business, but I know he does. So I'm going to talk to him and, you know, and I'm going to use my platform. and my success as an athlete that provides me with that access, that unique access, and I'm going to maximize it and I'm going to take advantage of it. So, Pao, I had a really strong relationship with Kobe. We were contemporaries and where we came around the similar time, we both entered the league as teenagers.

21:48When my knee was hurting, he basically screamed at me and said, you've got to get to Germany and go take care of it. I did. It worked really well and I came back and played well and my knee felt great after that. but I remember he would watch the Yankee games on the Yes Network and he would say hey call me and he would tell me don't forget who the F you are don't worry about the booze don't worry about this just go be you and then he would start telling me like to start getting my elbow lower and that's when I said okay I got this that's when I had to hang up I said I gotta go keep that elbow Yeah, yeah, that's why I draw the line.

22:26But shifting Jason's question on the court, what was it about him that you learned, and I'm sure you taught each other a lot, but what was it about him that made him so special, that made it so much fun to play with? I guess his desire to be the best. His work ethic was just incredible. The level of dedication and commitment to it. He had his incredible, outstanding drive to win. And he understood, I think there was a point in time And he understood, like every great player in the history, that he could not do it alone. So he also understood that he needed to lead. Not many or any could kind of put in the work the way he would put in the work.

23:08So it's just remarkable. I mean, I can, you know, there's, you know, there's something about, you know, we got to push our limits. And our limits are usually much further than what we think they are. So he pushes limits. You know, he pushed himself. He was extremely focused. Pao, give our listeners an example of his work ethic or him not being content or him calling you up and saying, Pao, we got to get better. Or does he show up at four in the morning? Maybe share a couple of those. Yeah. I mean, it was from the moment that I landed with a team in D.C., landed around midnight and I would get to the hotel around past midnight.

23:45And he'd say, Pao, I want to see you when you get to the hotel. I'm going to come to your room. I said, okay, well, you know, it's going to be late. I have to do media. You know, it might be like 1.30. The team has a game at noon the next day. Like we can, I'm sure you don't have to wait up for me. You can, we can talk tomorrow in the morning when, when you get your rest. I said, no, no, I'm coming to see you. It doesn't matter what time it is. So even from that moment, you know, he kind of like already was telling me, it's like, you know, this is important. This is a priority. This is, you know, this is how it's going to be.

24:18So it was 1.30 when I got to my room and I hit him up as I am in my room. Three minutes later, he was in my room to specifically deliver me the message like, hey, great to have you. I'm so excited. It's great. You're a great player. Now let's go win a championship. There's a sense of urgency of like, we're going to make a run. We made a run. We ended up first in the conference in those two months after I joined. He won his only MVP of the season that year. And we made it to the finals. We did lose against the Celtics, but that loss and that process helped us win the next two for sure. So that's one example.