How Jenny Nguyen is Growing Women’s Sports from a Bar

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0:43Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner, Alex Rodriguez. All right. I feel like, Alex, this week, it's truly back to business. We're post-Labor Day. You have come back from the beach. You know, not that you weren't working, but I like business, Alex, Max. Like, let's get some stuff done. And you visited me on that beach. I did. I did. We had a great time out there. We recorded an episode of this show, which will be coming out in a few weeks. But listen, this is one of my most favorite times of the year when it comes to sports. U.S. Open is happening. Shout out to Jessica Pagula, who was a guest on our show earlier this year.

1:18She has gone deep into the U.S. Open. I've been watching that avidly. You've been keeping an eye on the Yankees. They're looking pretty good. Aaron Judge coming back this week. Yankees have been keeping their head above water and hopefully ready to make a nice push. And it's been exciting. Well, speaking of a push into the playoffs, the Minnesota Lynx, your team, of which you are the governor. What a season. The playoffs start at the end of September. Vibes have got to be good. The vibes are good not only for the Lynx, but also for the W overall. It's been an incredible year. Great viewership.

1:50Popularity continues to growth. And the one thing we continue to witness every day is the appetite for investors to enter the space of W. and women's sports overall. Which leads right into this week's episode. Jenny Nguyen is the co-founder of The Sports Bra. This is a place that a lot of people probably have heard of. If you are at all interested in women's sports, this is an iconic location, currently just one place in Portland, Oregon. They have unbelievably ambitious expansion plans. I loved talking to her about her vision for the future. Very ambitious, great investor that she's been able to recruit, and certainly a place that when I go see, when I go to Portland, I'm definitely going to visit and check it out.

2:33Well, and there could be an outlet there in Minnesota before too long. As you mentioned, investors, Renee Montgomery, Alexis Ohanian, others have sort of come in to really fuel that growth. It's something you're deeply invested in. So a lot to catch up with. Coming up, Jenny Wynn.

2:59All right, welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner, Alex Rodriguez. What a fun conversation we're in for today with Jenny Nguyen. She is the CEO and founder of The Sports Bra. She joins us from The Sports Bra in Portland, Oregon. So first of all, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Lovely to have you on the show. I played in Seattle for seven years as a Seattle Mariner, and I got there in 94 and exited 2001. But one of the kind of dirty little secrets is how passionate sports fans are in the Pacific Northwest. And Jason and I were talking about that offline a little bit when we saw the Seahawks trade for a really big number.

3:37And my question to you is, Portland, another great market. I mean, great fans. Massive. Why the bar business? You could have gone anywhere else. I love it because I love sports bars, but why the bar business? Yeah, it's fascinating. So I was born and raised here in Portland. This is my hometown. I've spent 40 of my 46 years living here. And while growing up here, I witnessed folks showing up for women's sports from a super young age. And this was normal for me. And it wasn't until I got a little bit older that I realized that we had something special here in Portland. And then my background, I graduated college.

4:16I, while in college, I started working at Rib Robin and fell in love with the back of house and with kitchens and fire and tickets and pressure. So I came back to Portland, went to culinary school and just had been working in kitchens for about 15 and a half years. And so I was very familiar with kind of back of house food. I'm really hands on. I love doing things with my hands, you know, and I like to I like to hang out with my friends. And we always went to go to traditional sports bars to watch games. and it was super challenging every single time. And so there was just this moment where I was just like, man, you know, every time we go to a sports bar, it lets us down in some way or multiple ways.

4:57And I was just like, the only way we're ever going to watch women's sports the way it deserves is if we opened our own place. And then, you know, the pandemic happened in 2020. At the time I had been unemployed for about four years by choice. And I watched the WNBA play in the bubble. And that really, it shook me. It inspired me watching these 144 women play in quarantine, doing the job that they came to do and that they loved. But they also changed the game and changed the narrative around everything from politics to human rights to police violence. I mean, they just stood on business. They linked arms and they made change.

5:41And so during that time, I was just like, what am I doing with my life? How can I make a change? And that's when I really thought about my background in Food & Bev and my passion for basketball and my love of this town. And that idea of, you know, this dedicated sports bar popped back up. And it just was an idea that I couldn't shake. Well, my love is really around chicken wings and a good beer. We got both those. We got you covered, Alex. So, Jenny, help us understand the business of it. I've been in the gym business for about 20, 25 years, and you're in real estate and the hospitality business.

6:19You know, we're in a very similar business, real estate, and we're trying to host, you know, thousands of members that come in daily. Help us understand the capex. So to build one unit, right, in Portland, or if Jason and I wanted to open one, how much capex do we put in? And what kind of return ROI do we expect, cash-on-cash return over the next five years? Yeah, it's difficult. It's really, really hard. The market is hard, and it's harder than it's ever been right now. Especially in Portland, we've got increasing food costs. We've got increasing gas prices. We've got increasing utilities, increasing labor costs.

6:53Everything's increasing. And with the economy the way it is, there's decreasing people with expenses. They're just spending less. It doesn't mean the fandom is any less. I know we were just talking about how we're seeing great numbers coming through, but their average check size is going down. And how do we meet people where they're at? How do we meet our community where they're at by still delivering them great service, great food, great beverages, and a great atmosphere and a community and a home to build it in to pair up with this increased fandom? I mean, in Portland alone, we introduced three professional women's teams just this year.

7:30And so there's more for us to celebrate here. But how do we meet the community? How do we meet the economy where it's at? And when it comes to, you know, build out costs or initial costs, you know, we're franchising right now. So we have kind of these nationwide numbers and it's anywhere starting out between 400 and 1.2 million. And that's just like the median. That's not talking about cities like New York City or Los Angeles or even places like Boston, which we're building out in right now. And those costs can be upwards of double what that is. Ideally, right now, we're looking for a second generation location, which could cut those costs in half, if not more.

8:11Looking at a spot that used to be a former sports bar would be ideal. A former restaurant, even a tap house would be great. And then, you know, then it's got built in taps. It has a walk-in refrigerator, grease trap, hood system, all of the really high dollar items for a full build out. But yeah, it really depends. And a lot of it also has to do with the location that you're in because we're talking to Indianapolis and St. Louis where we have two other franchises opening. And man, their food costs and their labor costs are drastically different than what we're looking at here in Portland. So, you know, the turnaround, much, much lower.

8:46so the turnaround on things like that is going to be very different from what we have like say in boston however you know you price it right and like there's there's math for it to work but yeah it really depends and when you talk about why did i do it here really this is my hometown and it's also the main reason why i chose franchising versus corporate expansion which is what i thought at the beginning i was like no one knows or understands or loves the sports bra as much as i do only i I can build this in other cities. And that's what I thought I was going to do. And the more I traveled, the more I went to these cities and like, you know, talk to brokers, talk to investors, looked at, you know, where in the community the sports bra could thrive.

9:26The more I realized that I didn't know jack about what communities needed in a really authentic way. Like without even knowing it, I had built a space for my hometown here. Like this feels very connected. I was already connected in the sports community here in Portland. I've lived here my whole life. It feels super authentic. If I tried to open the sports bra, let's say in the Bay Area, I think it'd be okay, but it would feel like the sports bra Portland in the Bay Area, which might be fine. But the missing piece to me is that authentic connection to the community that an owner has. Another thing I kind of debated was can a general manager or can somebody love the sports bra the way an owner could love it.

10:14And it's just, it's really difficult to find that person. And so when I thought more and more about franchising, the more it really felt aligned with how we started the place. Like I opened the sports bra, I opened the doors on this restaurant through a Kickstarter campaign. Like clearly I'd been unemployed for five and a half years before we opened the doors to this place. So I had little to no dollars to throw at it. And it really took a Kickstarter campaign that was so built by community. And so the opportunity to take this dream and take this vision and franchise it and hand it to somebody in a community that they love to make their dreams come true just felt like a great way to kind of continue to build community around it.

10:57So let's talk about the national expansion, because it's beyond ambitious, I think, to say the least. Our understanding is, you know, 40 locations by 2030 is sort of your stated goal. Help us understand an ideal market. And how do you solve that math problem in the best way possible that you were describing? Yeah, I love that question. And it's fascinating because I learned it as we looked for it, right? So right away when we decided to franchise, we hired a site analytics, data analytics team. They use, you know, 20 ,000 points of information gathered from cell phones and whatnot. And oh, my God, you're speaking Alex's language.

11:36This is like, this is how he thinks. Go on. Go on. I love it. I mean, when you're in real estate, that's kind of what you're looking at. Right. But what we had to do was so we opened four years ago. We have a tiny footprint in Portland. At the time when we started this franchise idea, which was 2024, there weren't as many women's sports bars. So we had a data set of one for a little while. And then we grew that data set. So we added three or four or five more by the end of 24. Now we have a couple dozen women's sports bars that continue to add to the set. What's interesting is that the demographics point in so many different directions that, you know, there's very clearly this idea that if there are pro women's sports teams, particularly kind of the big three or the big four, that those are going to be the cities that have the best markets for the sports brought big three big four basketball soccer basketball soccer hockey is a big one yeah yeah yeah and then a pro volleyball team at this point right so like when we think about pro women sports teams that adds a big big dot onto a city however we did this same analysis laid it over the top of St.

12:59Louis. We laid it over the top of Portland, Maine. And the brightness of the red, which is like the hit, was just as bright. And how do you explain that when you don't have pro teams? Now, this is based on per capita and a bunch of other information. So it adjusts for population size and whatnot. So what it's saying is that women's sports fandom exists in a lot of places and pro women's sports teams are just catching up. Like there is plenty of space. And one thing that we witnessed in St. Louis is that when folks don't have a home team, they don't have an opportunity to go to a venue. So that is a built up fandom and they need an outlet.

13:54And so what we're hearing and seeing a lot of is folks who are fans of other teams from elsewhere, wherever it is. It could be the New York Liberty. It could be in this sort of links. It could be the Portland Fire. It could be the up and coming teams. And they all live in St. Louis and they don't have a place to go to. Right. So that creates a whole other thing. What's also interesting is we have demographics that are very strong around underrepresented communities. That's something that we've leaned into from the beginning. So LGBTQ plus communities and strong BIPOC communities. So those kinds of things also create these really glowing red dots on these maps.

14:39And these maps are just a tool. They're not a be all end all of where we're going to set the sports bra. Because we've also heard from different folks around how there are a lot quieter pockets of towns that are much more reasonably priced. And if you put the bra there, people are going to come. It becomes, it's a destination more than a convenience. However, you know, it's always a balancing act too.

15:08Hi, I'm David Weston. Join me every week for the Wall Street Week podcast to hear stories of capitalism from around the world, from geopolitical tensions and central bank decisions to artificial intelligence, energy, and infrastructure. We sit down with the CEOs, economists, policymakers, and thought leaders whose decisions are shaping markets everywhere we find them. Subscribe to the Wall Street Week podcast on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you listen.

15:42Yeah, so Jenny, I want to talk a little bit about starting a business and then bookending it with exiting the business. And I've been involved in franchise business for a long time. And what I've learned is sometimes, I guess the first question is, is part of your challenge at the beginning is to educate your local partners that sometimes they think the business may be broken, but what's really broken is the capital stack, meaning they have too much debt or the money they raised is too expensive. And with the real estate, you know, sometimes the business is great, but you're in the wrong real estate or in the wrong corner, or you're paying too much for the real estate.

16:21Therefore, the perception is that the business is not working, but it is truly working. And then on exit, are you thinking about being an asset-free business with a franchise? You're going to get a much higher multiple than if you had to put up all the capex, and you're more asset-heavy versus asset-light? Yeah, I'll take this in sections. So the first part, I absolutely agree. I mean, at this point, we're looking for franchisees with great capital. And if they can buy the building, I mean, that is that is leaps and bounds way better, a way better place to be in. In fact, when we're looking in Portland right now, we're looking for second gen.

16:58And if it's possible, we'd love to buy the real estate. I mean, that was nothing that I was thinking about 40 years ago, right? So Alex, you're speaking into the future of like, what I'm learning now. One thing about me coming into this is, yeah, I worked in kitchens for 15 years, but I was literally the chef. So no, not really any business acumen. So everything I'm learning, I'm learning on the fly. I have really great advisors. I have a really great team, super strong, but constantly learning about all the things. So real estate is a huge part. And when it comes to kind of getting into the right or the wrong businesses, whether it's a lease or a poor negotiation, you know, we have a really strong legal team as well as a really great real estate representative or advisor on our side that can help our franchisees make sure that things are lined out appropriately for the right deal.

17:49On the back end, when it comes to exiting, you know, the franchise model for us was really about building spaces and really about building the community spaces with the four walls. And when we started down that track in 24, that was where I saw the business growing. But what has happened over the last couple years, and really, if we think about it since day one, is that the sports bra is much bigger than just a bar. It's much bigger than just the four walls or all the activities or events or the food and Bev or the fandom that's held within it. The sports bra has become a brand. And so when we talk about assets and value, we're leaning into a lot of other avenues now to build and grow that so that we do actually have more assets that can diversify our revenue stream.

18:37We understand franchise business is a low, slow, hard grind. When people ask me how things are going, I was just like, it's how you would expect pushing a 50 ton boulder up a hill would be going. But it is moving in the right direction. And at some point, we'll hit the top of this hill and the ball will start rolling and really gaining momentum. Till that happens, we're still needing to raise money. We're still bringing on investors. We're still creating assets and developing assets and building partnerships that will, what we imagine is continue to grow the brand and the sports bra in a way that's much bigger than just the four walls of the bar restaurant.

19:18And so those are the kinds of things I'm leaning into. So when I think about exiting, it's not just the franchise system, but it's the brand and what it can represent and the IP that it brings with it as well as the partnerships that we're creating. Well, and to that end, Jenny, let's talk about some of the investors you brought on. It's people we know well, Renee Montgomery, Alexis Ohanian, folks who believe not just in the concept of a place where everybody knows your name, but obviously sort of this growing ecosystem. there is this sense of investing in the whole, investing in the ecosystem that is building, that the sports bra was such a, I don't know, a little bit of a canary in the coal mine of like something very special is happening here that is manifested in a bar, but is actually, again, as Alex is seeing right there in Minneapolis, something that's candidly bigger than all of us.

20:13Talk to us about bringing those investors on board, what they bring and sort of what you're looking for as you expand that part of the team, as it were. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, I will say that Alexis Ohanian came in at the very beginning before I even knew what was happening. You know, the guy like can sense things from a mile away. He pinged me probably March of 23. So we weren't even a year in. Wow. And I thought it was a joke. I thought a friend of mine had pranked me with a tweet, you know, and I was just like, nope, that's fake. But yeah, you know, it was not only awesome and like very humbling to have somebody like him, but he has been investing in women's sports for a long time.

21:00It wasn't just a flash in the pan. So I loved that. I also loved that he brought some validity to the business of women's sports, to the business of the sports bra, because as much as I hate it, I read the comments on things. And there's like a handful of trolls, handful of haters that are going to continue to talk. Every single time a women's sports bar opens, no matter where it is, it's the same narrative. And so to have somebody like him come in, it really helped to validate, you know, what we were doing. So those two things felt really great. Obviously, having somebody in the space that could advise and like kind of lean in and a big thinker, a big dreamer.

21:38Here I was thinking I had like a moonshot idea and he was just like, oh no, let me know when you're ready to go big. And I was like, didn't I already go big by just opening a restaurant? And since then, you know, a lot of folks have been asking how involved is he? And he is so low key. He's very casual. I'm more doing outreach to him when I need something or when I have questions around something. And then he checks in every now and again. And then with Renee Montgomery, you know, this is almost bookend because Alexis was at the beginning, Renee is probably one of our kind of latest big investors.

22:08And to me, she is, you know, exactly who the sports bra was, would love to have on board. She has been in so many different facets at the very top, the top of her game in basketball. You know, she's an executive, is part owner of a team. She is in business. So she is just an entrepreneur herself in so many ways. And she's in media and content and like is the face of a lot of things on TV and outspoken and exactly the right demographic around who and why we're here. And she's also just incredibly passionate and sharp as a tack. Like the two of us we get in the room is just like, I feel like a mic or a camera might explode because we just kind of feed off of each other's energy.

22:56And so the opportunity to build and grow, like I said, outside of the franchise model. You know, I think Renee is one of those great advisors around strategy and creativity to grow the brand. A lot of our investors are angel investors too. They just believe in what we're doing. They want to continue to grow. Whatever it is we have in mind, they're just like, I want to be a part of what you're building. I support you. And they throw it in.

23:29A new chapter in global growth is being written, and much of it is happening in Africa. Africans need to invest. There are deals to be done and business to be won. I'm Jennifer Zabasaja. Every week on the Next Africa podcast, we track capital flows and political shifts shaping the continent's future. The digitalization of Africa is going to power its growth. Creating the world of something like HIV is possible. Population growth is so enormous in Africa. Listen to Next Africa on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

24:21copy. So don't worry about it. They'll catch up. But as far as Alex, so I know that when I was reading your bio and prepping for this conversation, I said, Oh, wow. I said, Jason, she has Alex. That's that's a great pickup. How do you put that deal together? How do you get him from that text to actually writing a check? And at what value? Yeah, I can't talk about value. But I will tell you how it how it kind of played out. It feels like a dream now that you know, it's it's years behind me. But yeah, I got that kind of first tweet. I was in the back doing the dishes, of course. I was doing the dishes.

24:54I feel my phone. I look at it. And it's a friend of mine who had screenshotted a tweet from Alexis. And it was just like, hey, at the sports bra, let me know when you're ready to go big. And I just like laugh because I think my friend had photoshopped it and put him in pocket. I'm done cleaning up the restaurant. Everything's closed. I'm, you know, doing bookkeeping downstairs. And I pull out my phone and I text my friend. I was like, haha, good one. And she was like, no, it's real. Check it out. And so I look at it and sure enough, he was responding to somebody else who was just like, Hey, have you heard of the sports brother doing some pretty cool stuff out in Portland?

25:27And that was his response. And so I read it and I freaked out. So I, you know, told my inner circle and I decided to sit on it for 48 hours. So I didn't act too thirsty. I like let it chill for a full 48 hours. And then I just, I just, it's like that first date situation. And I just DM him and I was just like, hey, thanks for the shout out. You know, we're just getting started. I'm not really sure. But if you want to email me, we can continue this conversation. And within about four hours from that DM, he emailed me and it was just, you know, a simple one line be like, love what you're doing out there in Portland, really interested in how you want to grow this.

26:12Keep me posted. And I was just like, oh my God, what am I doing? And, you know, then things would happen because things were crazy here. It was that we were getting a ton of attention. We were doing a ton of deals, lots of events. And I would forget. And so every couple months - And you're like selling merch, like people are super into this. I mean, I remember this like momentum that's happening, right? Like people are paying attention. There was a lot going on. There was a lot going on. Almost immediately, we were just doing business and getting partnership deals. I mean, Buick, I got an email from Buick, and I had to text a friend of mine who's in PR.