How NFL Star Bobby Wagner is Modeling his Career on Michael's and Magic's

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0:27Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. We are so excited to have with us Bobby Wagner. He is one of the fiercest linebackers in the National Football League. He has been terrorizing running backs and quarterbacks and offenses across the league for a number of years now. And also one of the most impressive businessmen that we've seen come through the league in a long time. Excited to talk to you, Bobby. Welcome to the show. Appreciate you. Appreciate you having me. All right. So as we've been trying to understand sort of your story, it's been fascinating to look at some of these decisions that you made along the way.

1:03And I want to jump right into one of them, which is you've decided from the beginning to negotiate your own contracts all throughout. Tell us why you decided to do that. uh yeah i just feel like um when i got into the league uh whether the stat was real or not um it came out and it said 80 percent of players uh nfl players end up broke and divorced um two years out of the league and i thought that was like an interesting stat and then um when i got into the the locker room and stuff you noticed that everybody had the same agent everybody pretty much had the same financial advisor. Like probably 80 % of the room had the same people.

1:44And these people have been working for a long time. I'll disrespect them. But, you know, you kind of start thinking like, dang, like they had to play a part in this statistic, you know, if it was real. And I just started to look into what it would look like to, you know, do business off the field. I think it started trying to understand. I started interning at different businesses out here, Starbucks, Microsoft being a few. And then I think as I did that, it gave me the confidence that I felt I can negotiate a deal by myself. And so I started learning and researching. I picked up the CBA. I read that.

2:20I was fortunate to have conversations with some GMs. And I just started building my network and building people that I would lean on whenever I decided to make that decision. And once I did it, I'd never look back. Alex, that feels radical to me. Does it feel radical to you? It feels radical, but totally logical, right? I mean, Bobby just read out some really unbelievable stats and it would be kind of crazy to say, okay, I'm going to do exactly what everybody else has done. I mean, this is a perfect time to exercise being a contrarian. And Bobby, I guess my follow-up is two part. One, what type of negotiator are you today versus, you know, over a decade ago when you were a young kid?

3:07And number two, walk our audience and Jason and I through, how does that go? Are you meeting with the owner? Are you meeting with the GM, the president? How do you negotiate your own contract? Because sometimes it's harder to advocate for yourself than for everybody else. I think it's kind of easier because, you know, who knows you better than yourself? You know, who knows what your needs are, your spending habits, things of that nature. But then I think the biggest thing I had to learn, the biggest thing I think that they fear, too, is controlling your emotions. I mean, I think that's the reason why a lot of time they feel like athletes can't do the deals by themselves.

3:41Like they need a middleman is because, you know, you're going to hear stuff that you don't want to hear. And you're going to hear stuff that either they like about your game or don't like about your game. and you have to be able to hear that and not take it personally to understand his business. And so every team is different. You might have the GM, I haven't negotiated with a president, but I know some teams that the president's heavily involved. And so again, it's just kind of like knowing who you're talking to and knowing their negotiation style. So a lot of the experience that I lacked, I got it from other sources.

4:17Like I kind of built my team around me that had some experience with different agents, different GMs, different people. So they kind of helped me, you know, make up for the experience that I lacked. So Bobby, just a quick follow-up on that, because this is super interesting. When you look at the teams that you negotiated with, who was the easiest, who was the toughest? And from a mechanical point of view, are you coming in with like, I won five bucks, they say you got two bucks, you split the baby. Walk me through that a little bit. Obviously, Seahawks was the easiest because I knew they were really well.

4:47You know, they knew me really well. They knew my personality. They knew, you know, different things about me. Obviously, the other teams are a little bit different because you're learning new people and you're trying to talk to people that you just first meeting. And I was fortunate enough to meet so many different people. And one of the one of the people that I met was Steve Ballmer. And one of the things that I took away from that conversation was understanding your market, understand your value. and so I did a really really big research on on you know what linebackers were making around then and so I knew what numbers to come in at I knew what linebackers were making with the Seahawks I knew who the top guy was um with the Rams I knew where the the market of the linebacker was trending and the same thing with the commander so I walked in knowing where my value was at so you know if the linebacker value was around ten dollars I wasn't coming in there asking for 20 you know where i needed to be and where i wanted to land at and so i think that's that's what it is is is understanding what is your value what has it been and what is the current market value because like sometimes that changes that the the market value changes and and guys will miss that change and so they'll come in asking for a crazy number and you'll miss out on an opportunity to be um with a team because you didn't understand your value so i think that was the biggest thing just knowing that outside of the the emotional intelligence it's funny bobby i'm sitting here listening to you and also sort of as a proxy for our audience and alex and i both as you probably saw looked at each other when you when you dropped steve balmer's name it's like yeah that's a pretty good guy to get some advice from how does how does that happen do you just call him up or like what's the what what's the connection to him i mean obviously seattle guy but like what how does that come about you know we just had so many different connections whether it was amy hood whether it was john connor's we had like synergies and and um you know i was able to make that connecting he was gracious with his time has been gracious with his time he's still a big mentor of mine still somebody I look up to and I um I'm grateful for you know him leaning into me and trying to uh you know see me grow and so I think that's one I'm part of uh brand Jordan so you know I was able to reach out to Mike and and and have that conversation with him so I think I was thinking about doing I was trying to get everybody's perspective I was trying to get the Gia's perspective I was trying to get the owner's perspective obviously I had a player's perspective and I felt the better I was prepared, the better the outcome would be.

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7:50I wanted to re-up a question that Alex asked a minute ago, so it doesn't get lost because it was a really good one, which is how have you changed as a negotiator? I would imagine you've become more confident. You've negotiated with different people. How would you describe that evolution for yourself? Yeah, I definitely think it was confidence. confidence be the biggest thing i think when you're walking in um there's a little bit nervousness because you uh you know you're coming in and you you're fearful of like all right like what if i what if it goes wrong or what if um what if i ask for too much what if i ask for too little what if i don't get a deal done but there was pressure you know what i mean like there was pressure to make sure that you did it at a high level because if i if i mess it up then i'll make it harder for the next guy that that um wanted to do it and so i just was trying to make sure i put anybody who had this thought in their mind um to put them in the best position possible so i wasn't kind of wasn't just thinking about myself i was thinking about um whatever representation i had of myself was going to be the next person you know so if i was an angry person or if i got mad or there was this nasty fallout um that would be the assumption for the next player and so i think through time um i think the confidence and and what i was looking for and how to go about it i mean that's the biggest thing can you specifically give us uh an example i know we're not going to hold you to it there's just your vision what are some of the silos you would like to invest in?

9:19Is it more real estate, venture, maybe an NFL team, NBA? What's your vision look like? I read this book when I was in high school and it was really stuck with me. It was very interesting because I remember the opening part of the book was so crazy. It was called $40 Million Slave. And don't quote me on the exact way the book started, but it was, I believe, Larry Johnson, he was in the garden and he was heckling with his fan. He ends up having this great gang and he finds that fan he was talking to. And he was like, yeah, now what? And the fan basically goes like, well, you're still a$40 million slave.

10:00And then the book goes into ownership. No matter how hard he worked, he's still not the person that cuts the check. He's still not the person that is the main source of the revenue. And I think from that standpoint, when I read that, I was like, okay, I understood that football was going to be a really big avenue for me. And football was going to be something that made me wealthy, but I knew it wasn't the end goal. And the end goal was trying to get to a level of ownership. And so real estate is not a full space that I'm really into. I have a little bit of exposure, but I want to be heavy into that.

10:40I'm exposed to venture now. I want to have a little bit more private equity, and I just want to be someone that dominate all the spaces, to be honest. I want to go back to the ownership piece, because Alex, you've talked a little bit about this before. This is a good opportunity, I think, to, as you say, double click on this. What was the ownership inspiration for you? I think for me, it was watching some of my mentors, like Michael and Magic, Michael Jordan, watch them take the next step. By the way, it's really cool that both of you guys can just be like, Mike, Michael, and we just have to know you're talking about Michael Jordan.

11:18But go on. Go on. We set it up, though. You know, we give you the leeway where it's like I said, Bran Jordan. You know what I mean? We let you know. Yeah, I know. I got it. I got it. Listen. Listen, this show is all about flexing. Just ask Alex. Come on. Bobby, Jason has taught me to be a good listener, so I'm just kind of playing the next tune here. So I think, Jason, in our community, whether you're black or whether you're Hispanic or anything in between, I think the best lesson you can learn is not going to be in school. It's really proximity to greatness. So when I see a man of color like Magic and Michael take that ownership leap, what it does, I think, for Bobby and I, it gives us an opportunity to say, hey, why not us?

12:00If they did it, why not us? And then you start studying them. So it was early on when I saw Magic and Michael do it. And then I remember a conversation I had with my teammate Derek Jeter when we were almost like teenagers when we first entered the league. And we were talking about, wouldn't it be great to play 10 years in the big leagues and like own 1 % or 2 % of a team? And that was kind of when the vision started. But it really became material when I saw Magic and I saw Michael Jordan do it. Yeah, I mean, Bobby, Magic has had a big influence on you as well. Tell us about that. Yeah, nah, again, I would have that same sentiment.

12:33I feel like when I looked at Magic growing up, and we always play, I mean, I grew up with the Proud, was it the Proud family? And there's a figure that kind of really resembled Magic, but you didn't ever know because it never showed his face. But the guy had, you know, movie theaters and different things. And so like growing up watching that, you watched him firsthand build, like be one of the greatest basketball players. And then he spent that and became one of the best businessmen to where so much so to like the people now in this generation, I only know him as a businessman. I don't even remember him playing basketball.

13:08And so I saw that. I saw him be that person. I saw him, you know, do all those things. He put all this thing. I'm like, man, I've modeled everything that I did after you. and, you know, to meet him and then have him extend his hand. And he's been, you know, amazing, you know, for me and opened up so many doors for me. You know, I'm grateful. And so it was crazy to see from the far, I'm watching him do all the things that he's done, all the success, all the people that he helped, but then to become a person that, you know, he leans in to help has been really a blessing. So again, I've tried to model myself after him And now I get to, you know, get under the hood and have him, you know, help me in a more personal way.

13:54Bobby, can you share one or two advices that Magic has shared with you that has been helpful and motivating? The first one that comes to my mind immediately is don't overpromise and under deliver. I take that to heart because a lot of people do that. A lot of people, I say, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And then they don't do that or they do either equal to it or not as much. So trying to over deliver on, you know, the expectation of what people have of you, I think that was the biggest thing. And you watch that, you know, in some of his business endeavors.

14:28Starbucks is a place that comes to mind. You know, he started off with three and that's what he was only supposed to have is three. And, you know, he did so well, they end up giving him 250. You know what I mean? Or I think that's the number. And he ended up selling it back. But I think that was the biggest thing is just it was so small and so, so quick. But you don't miss it because, you know, like a lot of people don't live up to their words today. A lot of people don't deliver on what they say they want to do. So, you know, a person that over delivers on what they say will always stand out to anybody.

15:02You know, I think, too, is just, you know, understanding the value and knowing where you want to go. So I started to wrap my mind around what is the value and not letting the outside world and not letting somebody else set your value. You understanding your value to the point where you know how to make that and set that. So now you have something else in common with magic, which you've both been on the deal. So, you know, we're just building bridges here. So obviously one of our all time favorite episodes, we did it in front of an audience at Milken. And he talked about it. I mean, it's interesting to hear you mention the Starbucks thing, Bobby, because Magic in that interview talked in that conversation, talked a lot about that moment with Starbucks and sort of how that came about and how he how he did it.

15:44So speaking of which, you know, the ownership piece, talk to us about Seattle Storm and sort of how that deal comes about. Obviously, that's very close to our hearts in terms of the W. We've had a lot of W owners, including obviously the co-host here involved in this show. We've watched it very closely. How does that deal come about for you? Man, I mean, I'm being connected with Seattle for a long time. And, you know, I've watched the storm. The storm has been doing that thing for a really, really long time. So not just like from a championship perspective, but when you're in a city, they do a lot of good in the community.

16:21And so they've always been somebody that I've paid attention to. And I had a really good mutual friend. um had she was looking to invest into a sports team um specifically WNBA and she had an option to invest in two different ones but Seattle being one of them and she wanted to go with a different option but I wanted to stay with Seattle because Seattle was closer to home and you know I met with the group um obviously we like we understood the importance of the WNBA especially in um in Seattle and we had a really great conversation and that conversation turned into me investing into it and I think it's been one of my best investments.

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17:42You know, I've talked to a lot of first-time investors or early investors, and there's a paradigm shift in the thought process. being someone who is an endorseee, someone who does commercials and gets paid versus someone who's writing a big check. How nervous were you when you wrote that check to invest? Because you're investing and you hope it comes back, but now it's left your home. Was that hard for you? Nah, because I feel like I did my research and I believe in the storm. And so I would say I've had scarier investments that I felt was more of a crapshoot or like you didn't really know, you hoped that it executed, you know, you did your due diligence, but you didn't know for sure.

18:32But, you know, when you look at the storm, you know, it's been great for a long time. And, you know, the ownership group has been amazing. So this is probably my easiest check to write, but I've definitely had some scary ones. What's the scariest? I invested in a company, I don't want to say their name, But I invested in this company and they didn't do well. And I wasn't confident about the CEO. And when it didn't go well, I had to ask myself what was the biggest thing. And I think learning from that is the importance of a team and the importance of the people that that team and that culture and the surrounding of that team.

19:14because I feel like a good team can make a bad product sell, but a bad team can't make a good product sell. And so I learned that early on, and I wouldn't make that mistake again. Talk to us a little bit more, and I want to hear both of you talk about this a little bit because Alex and I have talked about Seattle as a sports town. What is it about Seattle as a sports town? Bobby, you first, and then I want to hear what Alex has to say about it. Obviously, you guys played two different sports there, but you're both involved in women's basketball and in some form or fashion there as well. Like, what is it about Seattle that's different and unique as a sports town, Bobby?

19:54I think it starts with the fans. I think, you know, I don't know how it is in baseball, but when you come into Seattle, you come into, you know, Lumenfield or CenturyLink or whatever it's called today, teams know and it's hard to hear. Like, teams have to prepare for that. And that brings a whole different juice when you're playing and the fans are making it so loud that it's hard for the opposing team to communicate. That's just something that just sends something through your body like, this is going to be a good day for us. And so I think it starts there. But I've never experienced anything like that because I've been in the stadium where it's so loud that I'm standing next to somebody and they can't hear me.

20:37And that's how loud it is. And so I would say it starts with the fan. But I think as you expand, it's just a community. You know, I think everybody really connects to sports in Seattle. And everybody's a part of it, whether you're T-Mobile, whether you're all these different brands, everybody is all in on sports in Seattle. It's unique. The 12s. What do you think, Alex? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I think Seattle is a dream. I mean, if you think about summer baseball being a summer sport, there's no prettier place in the country in a July, August day. So that's phenomenal. It has a very rich corporate landscape.

21:15And then the fans are some of the greatest fans in the world. I mean, they have passion. They love their teams. They love their players. It's not just Seattle. It's the entire Pacific Northwest that you own, which is kind of cool. And that's why the TV numbers are off the charts. And then the best part is there is a bit of a, and Bobby, I don't know if you've seen this, of an underdog mentality, a chip on their shoulder because it is so far in the Pacific Northwest that when you go there, talk about 12 men in football and probably 10th men in baseball at the old kingdom, when we beat the Yankees in 1995 to this day, and I was only 18, 19 years old, I've never seen a more passionate connected louder fan base where Jeter and those guys, Mattingly, when you got to first base, I was screaming at man and they couldn't hear each other.

21:59That's how loud it was. Yeah. I think I almost feel forgotten about, like, because it's so far to the left of the map. It is so far away. When I was on the East Coast, I didn't realize it because, you know, when I went to the Commanders, everything was like an hour flight. Like, New York was an hour. You know, everything is so quick. Like, so we didn't travel that much. But Seattle was like, you know, our shortest trip was like two hours and a half. Now, Jason, I do want to clarify one thing real quick because Bobby can't complain. He has seven or eight home games, including, you know, camp. We have 81-plus playoffs road games.

22:37So the travel was crazy. And you're right, Bobby. When I went to Texas and then New York, it made me appreciate how difficult it is to play in the Northwest with the travel. And it made it a huge home field advantage. Alex said something that I think is a really important point that I feel like I want to emphasize based on some stuff that you've said already, Bobby, which is it feels like playing in Seattle did set you up in a different way for your business career. I think about Steve Young. He's talked about playing in San Francisco in Silicon Valley in the 90s, really put him on a different path.

23:15It feels like that put you on a different path because of Steve Ballmer, because of Starbucks, because of Microsoft. Is that a fair statement, and what did it teach you? Yeah, no, for sure. I think because, again, you have so many amazing companies around you. Why would you not lean into those companies? You know, why would you not lean into those places and learn from them? I feel like we have some of the best businesses around. You can add Costco to that list. So we've had so many good companies that have been through the ups and downs, that have been through different things. And those people that run those companies, if you're fortunate enough to get you to get connected with them, they could teach you those things.

23:56And so I feel like I've learned a lot of that. I can't speed my life up. You know what I mean? I can't gain experience. You know, a lot of experience comes from time and age. But some of that experience that you can get is from learning from other people's experiences. And I feel growing up or kind of coming up around that has definitely helped me understand what I need to look for in a company. how do I need to treat not only the customers, but the employees? I think that's the biggest thing too, is the better employees and the people that work with you feel about you and about the company, the better the experience is for the customer.

24:37Yeah, for sure. All right. So let's do rapid fire. It's 10 questions. First thing that comes to your mind, Bobby, and Alex and I will bounce back and forth. All right. Who's your dream deal-making partner? Magic Johnson. One word to describe your deal-making style.

24:59I'm like ghosts from power. What's more important, your gut or data? My gut. A deal you wish you had done. uh shoot if i'm being honest the lakers deal yeah good one um all right besides the very cool job you already have multiple jobs you already have do you what's your dream career if you weren't doing this what would you be doing probably whatever job that magic got okay what's your hype song i listen to kendrick for sure so kendrick is my go-to but i've been listening to the same song since 2008 before a game and it's Birdman Jr. by Lil Wayne. Wow. That's a great one. You have to choose one sport to watch for the rest of your life.

25:52You like a lot of sports. What's the one that you would choose? That's easy. Football. You'd rather watch highlights or the entire game? Entire game. What team do you want to see win a championship more than any? This is a tough one because you're a player and an owner. Well, shoot, this is storm now because I want to be a part of it now. There you go. They got to go through Minnesota or you got to go through Seattle. I like this. This is good. I do like it. And last one, what's your favorite place in Seattle? My favorite place in Seattle, honestly, is the VMAG because it sits on the water. And that's the name of the training facility.

26:32But it sits on the water. So much grass, so much to do. I like being by the water. and so it's just very peaceful. All right. So I'm manifesting this now. I want to see Storm Lynx in the WNBA finals, however that's going to happen. You know, I have no dog in this fight except that, you know, my partner here. But I love the Storm. We love Superd. We're all going to watch it. That would be a hell of a hell of a matchup. Bobby Wagner, you're a gem. Thank you so much for spending some time with us, walking us through your career. Best of luck to you. Hope to see you soon. Thanks so much. Thank you.

27:13I appreciate you.

27:20The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. This episode was made by Alexis Haught and Stacey Wong. Will Connolly is our video editor, and our theme music is made by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Ashley Zingaro and Amy Keene. Additional support from Rachel Carnevale, Nick Silva, and Elena Sosangeles. Thanks so much for listening to The Deal. If you have a minute, subscribe, rate, and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.