Men in Blazers’ Roger Bennett Says America Already Loves Soccer

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0:42Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my partner and co-host, Alex Rodriguez. All right. First of all, we should point out, as is sometimes the case, you and I, I think, are like 10 miles apart. I'm in Miami Beach. You're in Coral Gables. but you know, this is the, this is the life we've chosen. I was speaking today at the iConnections conference. You and I got to visit yesterday. You're grinding. It's, it's a very busy time. I have to say it's very nice to be in Miami. I am not happy about going back to New York. So I kind of get it. I get why you're down here. This makes a lot of sense to me, dude.

1:19It does make a lot of sense. And last night, I got to just tell you, this is what happens when you're 50. I got home, my youngest daughter, Ella, when I came home from the office, that are seeing you, I went home and I tried to put her over my shoulder, like if she was four years old. And of course, my back is all jacked up today. So that's the latest from the Rodriguez household. No, come on. You got to be careful. You got to be careful with that. You know, you're not, you're not a man in his athletic prime. I'm sorry to say. All right. So one of the things that actually did came up when we were visiting was this idea of what's about to hit this country, which is the World Cup.

1:56And coming up on today's show, we have Roger Bennett, who is truly the perfect person to talk to about this. He's co-founder and CEO of Men in Blazers. And the big, big, big question for him, the multi-billion dollar question is, is this going to be the thing, the moment for soccer in America? It's like a hundred Super Bowls. And yet I feel like people like you need to be won over. Is that fair? I think that's very fair. And I'm in a town that has already been won over. I can tell you that because Miami is the melting pot. What you have here with Jorge Mas and Beckham bringing in Messi, the championship.

2:35Miami is a city of champions. I know it when it's football season because you go around bars and at 9 a.m. they are packed and they're drinking and most of them are drunk. So I think it has legs, but I want to hear from Roger exactly why this is going to work domestically like it works in Miami. Yeah, and he's got a new book out, which is a great sort of framing device. And he takes basically most of his life or certainly his life as a football soccer fan and marks it by these World Cups. And so he has some really interesting perspective on 1994 was the last time that the World Cup was here in the United States.

3:13It obviously launched Major League Soccer, MLS, which is, you know, essentially the fifth league by most accounts in here in the United States and North America. But it still does not have either the staying power or the growth of the NBA or even the WNBA. But, you know, this should be, by all accounts, one of the biggest sports businesses in the country, in the United States. And it's just not. And I don't know. I don't know whether it's going to get there. There are huge, huge questions around the World Cup, as you know. And hopefully for him, it explodes in America. But it has tremendous potential and unlock tremendous resources for the future.

3:56Yeah, and it's interesting, too, to think about the trajectory of the sport because owing to the success of the women's national team, the U.S. women's national team, The NWSL has actually been a very successful, you know, fast-growing league on the women's side. MLS has been sore to catch up, even though, you know, they're a couple billion-dollar franchises. The reality is, and this is another topic for Roger, the power of the best players is very strong. And the best players tend to play, at least in their primes, in Europe, in South America, and in other places, and not here in the United States.

4:35So what's it going to take to unlock it? So lots to come. Coming up on The Deal, Roger Bennett.

4:53so excited to have with us roger bennett he is the founder and ceo of men in blazers media network and i have to say a voice that has been in my ears for many years i fully confess roger i have I've been to a couple Golden Blazers awards. I'm a huge fan. You've got a new book. It's called We Are the World Cup. It is a love letter to the sport, which I know is how you've described it. And it really is such a great moment, especially for my partner, Alex, to hear from you what we are about to see in the United States again. Anyway, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be with you guys.

5:35All right. So I'm going to ask the question that I know is on Alex's mind and is on my mind as a fan of this game. Is this going to be the moment where the business of football takes root in this country? Oh, it's already happened, is the honest truth. The Economist just came out with a study. And shut your ears for one moment, A-Rod, because soccer, football has just taken over from baseball as the country's third most popular sport. Obviously, the NFL, a giant, the NBA. Oh, it's so dominant in every single regard. But soccer, 10 % of Americans currently say it's their favorite sport when are surpassing baseball at 9%.

6:18You almost had it all, baby. Wow. Roger, you're hitting me right in the heart, right where it hurts, right off the bat. You're supposed to be a nice guest. Here I am coming on your show and just like making myself, putting my feet up on your sofa. Look, I mean, it's been a remarkable journey. It's not been easy. The World Cup, the Men's World Cup was here in 1994, which is when I moved here. It was meant to make America a football-loving nation almost overnight. Instead, it's taken, you know, over 25 years. World Cup to World Cup, the cable television, moving to streaming, every streamer needed a niche sport that everyone would pay money for.

6:56They all found football was devoted, passionate. It was it. So suddenly Americans could follow along with football as close to Manchester United or Liverpool from Los Angeles or Minneapolis as if they lived in the same zip code as the stadia. The internet made it so close. I remember 1994, I'll tell you this. My team were in a game, Everton, a massive game. It was not on television in Chicago, 365 channels. None of them gave a crap in America. I had to phone my dad and he held the phone against the radio in Liverpool, old school style. And now this whole world has changed. This young, incredibly Hispanic, but also, you know, a Premier League, Champions League audience, the rise of women's football.

7:40Our women are kicking ass and taking names in the world champions. All of these things have come together to answer your question. We are a proper football loving nation and the World Cup will just put us over the top. All right. So I hear what you're saying and I believe you. You're princessy here for eight worlds benefit here. Go on. Having said that, and listen, we've had a lot of people on this show from the NWSL specifically, the women's game, to your point, Raj, has like, I think, captured the imagination in a very powerful way. Major League Soccer has bumped along and yet from a zeitgeist perspective, and I know businesses aren't measured in zeitgeist, but and I am very interested to hear the point that you're making on the numbers.

8:34What is the devotion that translates into economics that needs to happen for it to go even higher? Maybe I'll put it that way. God bless. I mean, I can say part of this, the story of my book, which is the rise of the World Cup as this incredible global platform that's visible from out of space. You know, it's a solar eclipse that strikes the entire planet for the entirety of the tournament simultaneously. But Americans love the best when it comes to the best football. The thing that is complicated, you know, A-Rod played in the best baseball league in the world. If you want to watch the best basketball league, it's right here, the NBA, the NFL.

9:13There is nothing that wildly compares. And the best football is played in England, in the Premier League, the Champions League, the European tournament. Americans have fallen in love with that through all. We've just released it. We just released a study of American fandom in the United States for football. It is different to English fandom, where if you love the game, you go to every match. You know, you sit by the same people every week. The man who swears as soon as your team goes ahead 1-0. The woman who starts to suck on her knuckles when the team goes down 1-0. Same people. You don't know their names.

9:46You've been sitting by them for 25 years. Here in America, it is a solitary pursuit by and large. You watch 7 a.m. You watch 4 a.m. in the West Coast in your pajamas with a coffee that at some point becomes a beer. But we found out 27 % of the American fans are going over to England once a year to watch their Premier League team. Chelsea, be it Liverpool, be it Manchester United. They are devoted. And the incredible thing, JJ Watt is a regular on our show. Let me use him as an example. So this is a man who came on our show the first time, stuffed himself into a Chelsea jersey. God bless him. It was great.

10:24He was interested. He's married to a footballer. He said all the great stuff. and then he called me up. He said, I'd like to come on again about two months later. And I was like, you know, we kind of did our bits. I don't know what else I can ask it. And he goes, no, no, no. Trust me. Trust me. I mean, I've gone down this YouTube wormhole. Like I know my stuff. And he came on and it was incredible. His mind wrapped around what he'd studied was like, it was like a beautiful mind. And then a couple of months later, he texted me. He goes, I'm going to buy a Premier League team. I was like, don't do it.

10:54He goes, I've done it. He brought Burnley this north of England, and this dual old authentic club he brought into the ownership. You know, we go over to games. He is like beloved there. And I realize this. I mean, A-Rod, you've been to games. You've seen the number of American owners. I'm sure, to be candid, there's been a number of offers over the A-Rod deal flow desk saying, hey, buy into this ownership, buy into that ownership, come into this Premier League ownership, come into this Italian football ownership. The Premier League right now, of which JJ Watt is an owner, is a majority owned by United States owners.

11:28That is mind-blowing. We own the game. Americans own the game. And for J.J. Watt, I do believe this. This child of Wisconsin who grew up playing hockey and gridiron football, when he is as devoted to Premier League football as he is, and man knows his stuff, he knows his scouting details at a great level. I realize we've made it. This thing is so real. When we have J.J. Watt, we have everybody.

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12:35You know, a couple years ago, I went to London, and I went to my first game ever, Chelsea. And I've never seen anything like it, I got to tell you. It was awesome. And it reminded me of when the Yankees, when we used to play the Red Sox, right? But that's about it. Now, I'm here in Miami, and Miami is a city of champions and stars. And we have two of the biggest in Beckham, David Beckham, and Messi, who just brought the title to Miami. So I see what it – and I see all the bars that, you know, early in the morning watching Premier Football here. I see what it's done in Miami. How do you get that to all the other 49 states and all the other markets in America?

13:13So, number one, you went to Chelsea. You watched the game. I saw a photo. I remember you met Romelu Lukaku. You met our Lord and Savior, Christian Pulisic. God bless. And you said it was like the Red Sox and the Yankees. The Liverpool ownership is the Red Sox ownership. And one of the things that turned them on to football was that they looked at the Liverpool deal flow came to them. Liverpool, when they brought it, was very close to bankruptcy. And they tell the story of how they looked at the deal flow. And they saw that when Liverpool played Manchester United, which was then the biggest rivalry game, over 600 million people around the world tune in for that game.

13:52And they said, they turned around to their advisor and said, what? 600 million, which dwarfs the Super Bowl, 200 million. They're like, what? That's for a regular season game, twice a year, guaranteed. And they were like, we're in. And they also like, by the way, that when you sell a Boston Red Sox hat, the Brewers owners getting some of that money, that they asked, when we sell a Liverpool jersey, how much do we keep? And they were told all of it. And they're like, oh, we're in. So there is that economic incentive. I mean, again, guys, look, 94, right before the World Cup here, Jack Cook, quarterback turned congressman, he took to the floor of Congress and he said, we need to tell Americans, young Americans, that football is where you rush with it and throw it and catch it and not where you kick it.

14:38And he said, one is American capitalism and the other is European socialism. He said it with disgust. Like when I moved here, Americans hated, hated football, A-Rod. Really, they didn't just not like it. They actively hated it. I think there was a study done before the 94 World Cup. I write about it in my book. And they were asked their most popular sports. Soccer came 70th, I think. Tractor pulling came 69th. And so we were nowhere. And the honest answer to your question is it has changed. It is in all of those states. It's just young. The audience is so young. that, you know, our audience is 18 to 24.

15:17They've grown up playing FIFA, EA Sports, FIFA, it used to be called, EAFC, in dorm room after dorm room. They've fallen in love with the minutiae, the players, the playing styles, the Star Wars cantina of European football. The streamers have connected them to actually watching the game live. The internet has connected them to trades, transfers, injuries, as close to the teams as if they live there. The audience is already there. The numbers are unbelievable. The Premier League, the NBC are driving. It's such a valuable property commercially. Liga MX, the numbers for the Mexican League in this nation are one of the startlingly underreported ratings in sports television.

16:01So the honest truth is 94. I agree with you for your question. Soccer here was like space to Captain Kirk A-Rod. It was the final frontier. But Americans own the teams. Young Americans are watching the game. The level of knowledge, passion, authenticity, it is here already. And our network, the Men in Blazers Media Network, which is covering the thing 24-7, from a media perspective, it's really just a symbol of the fact that the United States really is a proper footballing nation in the way it is in the rest of the world. If you were an investment banker, and for our audience, I think we'd be very interested in this answer you have, how would you pitch me if Chelsea or Liverpool was in the market?

16:45Why would we want to be investors, Jason and I, into these two teams? Good Lord. I mean, you'd probably want to become a Chelsea owner because you'd be taking somebody off the Dodgers owner, which would probably really please you, eh, Rod? You'd be ripping a bauble out of Todd Burley's hands. That would be my simple pitch, knowing what I know about you. I like Todd Burley. I like him. He's my partner already. I love Todd. There you go. Then that's simple. And Liverpool, God bless Tom Werner, John Henry, have done an unbelievable job. I mean, really, from an American perspective, if American owners either come in and destroy whatever they brought over there because they don't know what they don't know.

17:24You know, ultimately, the American POV is pretty fascinating. There is a flood of American owners coming over, not just in the Premier League, A-Rod, but, you know, American owners are everywhere, equity investors. As we're speaking, Ryan Reynolds and Rob Max Rexham are playing football and winning. They've taken them from the equivalent of single-A baseball. They're taking them all away because there's promotion. and relegation and you can move up. You know, the poor Turquette Red Sox can get all the way up into the major leagues. And so they're doing a remarkable, I mean, it's really an unprecedented kind of almost, I don't like to be hyperbolic, but it's like watching the Odyssey lived out, written by Homer in real time, what they're doing over there at Wrexham.

18:06And I think the American mentality, the American sense, and this is not 100 % true from an English perspective, but the Americans look at these, you know, our sports are franchises, They're entertainment. I mean, you know this because you own over here. They're really entertainment platforms. When you're in your meetings, you're thinking about these things being entertainment platforms. In England, football is working class. Its roots are deep. They're authentic teams in the city. And I think the American investor looks at them as really undeveloped assets, even the big teams. The biggest tension, to tell you more than you want to know, in elite football is between the hyper-local and the hyper-global.

18:46in taking Liverpool, who have such... It's impossible to separate the city of Liverpool from the football club Liverpool. The two are indivisible. It's a major part of the club's identity. That identity is working class. They travel to the games, home and away. It defines everything. And at the same time, there's huge untapped markets all over the world. And projecting the club as a brand to those markets and commercializing it, that's what the American investment bank is looking at. And the only thing they need to do is that dance to not piss off the locals who love the club and feel, you know, you speak to the sophisticated American owners.

19:23They learn very quickly. They'll all say we're just stewards. We're not really owners. Doing that dance is the dance that I think the investment bankers will be advising you on. Roger, as you're talking and Jace, you'll relate with this, is that it reminded me what George Steinbrenner did in 1973 when he bought from CBS and sitting right in the Bronx. and it was a franchise that wasn't doing well. And then you see Tom Ricketts, years later, do that with the Cubs in the middle of a neighborhood where the biggest star is not only the brand of the Cubs, but is the stadium in which they play in, Wrigley Field.

19:58And then, of course, a very similar story. No one's done it better than John Henry, Tom Warner, Sam Kennedy. Fenway Park, it is an American monument. And what they've done there, unfortunately, to my pleasure, They have four championships and took a couple away from us in New York. So I totally get it when you put those two comparisons. So most of the bankers will say, and again, I have to say, I understand the English perspective. They find it furious. And the American owners, they look at the tickets. They're like, oh, my God, these tickets are nothing. You sit at MSG, you expect to pay 15, 20K to be courtside.

20:34How are these English football tickets? They raise the tickets a couple of pounds in England, and there's a riot, really. And so navigating the authentic, the working class roots of football, but that's ultimately why the American investors are all in there. They look at even the biggest clubs are like, my Lord, if you look at them as what they are, which is authentic, traditional football clubs that represent the city, that's kind of where they are. The American looks at them just as like, oh my God, entertainment platform, 24 seven piping, commercial brand property and also sellable streams direct into the heart of a global fan base.

21:10The American owners are trying to also, I mean, by the way, are in an arms race, so they kind of have to at this point. They're all competing with each other against nation states also. You know, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, they all have their teams. That's the kind of dance, the pull, the push of modern football.

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22:08This takes us to a really interesting place. I've been fortunate enough to go to some English Premier League games. I have very passionate supporters in my life, especially of Chelsea and Fulham and Arsenal and Man U and Everton and others. And I feel their passion for those clubs. Those clubs are not in the United States. And so what I hear you saying is in the same way that the Yankees, just to really play to our audience of one here, have transcended globally. And you can go anywhere in the world and see a Yankees, a Yankee hat or a Yankee jersey. But you can similarly see a Chelsea kit, an Arsenal kit, many different jerseys.

22:55Correct. Of European clubs. Do you think there is a moment where LAFC, NYCFC, some of the other clubs here, especially in the MLS, will break through in a way that, to go way back to something Alex said earlier, that Inter-Miami has done that? Is that possible for other MLS squads? So it's a great question. I remember having an argument with someone, one of the broadcasters about 15 years ago, where he was like, you know, what do you think the American kid's going to wear? Are they going to wear like a Chelsea jersey or a Bayern Munich jersey? Or if they live in Houston, are they going to wear a Houston Dynamo jersey?

23:39And I said, of course, they're going to wear Chelsea jersey. Americans love the best. We win. Yes, we win things and they're winners. He's like, no, wrong. They're going to wear their local jersey. And I was like, I don't know what to say to this person other than this is ridiculous. Americans love the best. And what's happening, MLS is growing. Remember, MLS has given the European leagues like 140, 150-year head start. It is remarkable how MLS is growing in a 30-year sprint. So what's fascinating, number one, you're right. And I do need for your listenership to just reinforce how massive, just how massive these global brands are.

24:19And again, the only statistic I can think of is the Super Bowl is everything in the United States. And it's like 200 million people watch it. The World Cup final, 1.5 billion people tune in for that bad boy. Like the levels, the levels to this game, the levels to the Chelsea logo, the levels to the Barcelona, the Real Madrid logo, the Arsenal. It is a global brand. I mean, Joel Embiid loves to play basketball. Joel Embiid comes on our show. He would much rather talk about Arsenal than Real Madrid. That's his. And he's not alone. They are massive, enormous, global giants. and what's been fascinating to me to watch, and you mentioned him, A-Rod, earlier, Sir David Beckham, as I feel legally bound to call it, and Lionel Messi, who, I mean, he's a demigod at this point, a demigod.

25:11He wears jorts, so we all wear jorts. What they've done for Inter Miami is unbelievable. When I am back in England, number one, when I fly back from the United States on a Thursday or a Friday, that plane will be full of Americans going to Premier League games, wearing their football jerseys. But now what is fascinating is because of the looks. I think it's, it is Beckham plus messy, plus your city, A-Rod Miami. Like there's a, there's an exotic nature to that city. I mean, it's just a, it's just a aspirational brand globally and the beautiful, and the beautiful brand work they've done to be candid, the distinctive pink Jersey, the branding they've done.