Ryan Howard on Sports Investing and MLB’s Labor Fight

0:00Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:46Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. Today, we've got a great one. We love talking baseball, especially in season, especially when there's so much going on around the game. Alex has said a number of times this is one of the most pivotal years in the history of the sport, certainly the modern history. We sat down with Ryan Howard. He, of course, won a World Series, a National League Most Valuable Player. He spent his entire career with the Philadelphia Phillies. I mean, that's saying something in its own right. And since leaving baseball, Ryan has built an investment portfolio across sports and entertainment.

1:22One of his most interesting companies is called Batter Up. Think Topgolf for baseball. He's also got a stake in a Liga MX team. That's the professional soccer league down in Mexico. So we talk about that. We talk a lot about baseball, the state of the game heading into and amidst this really massive collective bargaining agreement. negotiation between the players and the league and the owners. He had some thoughts, and we know Alex always does too. All right, coming up, Ryan Howard.

2:03Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. Buckle up, folks. This is going to be a good one. We have been so excited to catch up with Ryan Howard. Of course, former Philadelphia Philly World Series champion, National League most valuable player. He has some things in common with our with our beloved A-Rod here. Knows baseball better than anyone. And I can't wait for you guys to chop it up on that. Also, so much interesting stuff going on in your business life, Ryan. And you're joining us from the ATL. So even better. Great to have you. Hey, thank you guys so much for having me.

2:39I appreciate it. All right, Alex, I'm going to start by asking you, I'm going to do this a little bit different. You tell me, because we've talked a little bit offline. Tell me about Ryan. Tell me about Ryan in front of him. Yeah, so Ryan is a few years younger than me, as you can tell by his skin. It's much better than mine. Smooth operator. Now, Ryan is one of these guys that, you know, even when you play against him, you can't help but love him and respect him. He did everything the right way. He was always very respectful. In the World Series, we played obviously some very high-leverage games against each other while we weren't in the same league.

3:15We ultimately had the ultimate respect for the Philadelphia Phillies. And then what he's been able to do post-baseball, the way he's been able to transfer to being an advisor to Rob Manford, to being involved with the union, to doing his podcasting with my boy Rollins, and the way he conducts himself with his family, it's really the epitome of what you want a Major League Baseball player. And if I was a kid like Lombard, I would say, look at Ryan Howard as a role model. Look at Derek Jeter. Look at Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettit, to put him in the names that I feel that he belongs in that pedestal.

3:47Well, and Ryan, it's interesting, too, because, you know, there are there are some shades of my partner here in what you've done from the from the business side. So let's jump into it. You've got some ownership. I think we're especially interested in Batter Up. So talk to us about that deal because I'm so taken with it and it feels like so of the moment in the best possible way. Tell us about it. Yeah. So first, let me echo one thing on Alex and give him his flowers as well. It was always fun being able to watch him do what he did. This is a smooth operator. I was a little clunky on defense. He was a little smoother than I was over there, you know, with the glove at short and third.

4:32But I think with what he was able to do hitting wise, being able to change, change the flow. And as you mentioned, yeah, they took that World Series in 09. So, you know, you got to give props where props is due. But he did mention one thing where he's talking about, you know, George Lombard, Lombard. And and I think for Alex and myself, the difference was when we played, the mindset was you were earning your check. That was that was it. That was supposed to be your end all. where in today's environment, it's like baseball is the springboard to the next. Right. And so that's the way I've kind of looked at it from transitioning from baseball.

5:13And if I could go back and tell my 25 year old self that I would have been start sooner, start way sooner. And, you know, I think where you kind of get closer to the end of the career and you start trying to see, you know, what is it that I really want to do? There's some things here I'm very interested in. And when you make that transition, I wish I would have been able to start it earlier. And I think this crop of players now with what we have in social media, everybody, number one, is their own brand. And they're able to capitalize on that as well now more so than I think what we were really able to do.

5:53So there's so many more, I think, opportunities for players now and just athletes, entertainers to start looking post career for athletes and then just continuing to build if you're an entertainer, because as long as you got a voice or you can act or whatever, you may still be able to find a job. So, but jumping into batter up, you know, batter up for me, the fun part was, was being able to hit home runs on the field. And now it's kind of like being able to try to provide that opportunity to everybody else. So what we kind of liken it to is the top golf of baseball, where it's an open aired concept where we have the pitching machines, you have the entertainment, if you will.

6:44and thus far, I mean, it's been great. We're putting it together, looking at trying to go and now raise into a Series A and provide a great experience for fans where it's not your normal batting cage. It's where you can come, you can see kind of the live pitching with the live pitching type pitching machines and get that experience. So everybody who's out there talking trash about guys going up there missing and swinging and all that kind of stuff. You get to experience what it's like. So, Ryan, I like where you started there. It sounds like a wonderful concept. I guess if you don't mind playing along here, we'll play a little Shark Tank.

7:26So inside 45 seconds, you mentioned you're raising some capital, Series A. Tell us, if you don't mind, whatever you can disclose. What's the enterprise value coming in, kind of pre and post? And how much are you looking to raise? And then what would you do with those funds? So right now it's still a very early concept. So we're looking to raise the series A, so about 15, 16 million dollars. We're looking in Phoenix as the first location. The concept is going to be about 15 to 20 bays. There's an upstairs deck with that little kind of party deck, if you will. And basically right now, that's where we are.

8:06We're looking at kind of raising that 15 million And that money will go into obviously getting the property as well as starting the construction on the first batter up. And so how does a deal like this come to you, Ryan, or is this a concept that you developed? Like, what's the genesis here? Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, it's just through different networks, through different networks of people. It was funny where when it came to me, it came to me through a friend of mine, Mike Fonseca. and I was actually, the universe has crazy ways of working. And so I was actually thinking about something along those lines.

8:46And then Mike hit me up and he's like, hey, there's these two brothers, Matt Bell and Greg Bell that have this concept. That's kind of like the baseball version of Topgolf. And I was like, man, your ears must be ringing. The universe is ringing something. and I've talked to those guys, went over it, loved the concept, loved what it was about and loved the people more so. I loved the people and I loved the concept and wanted to be a part of it. Yeah, interesting. I like how you said if Ryan Howard today at 46 would give advice to Ryan Howard at 25. What I like you to help me understand and our audience is take us inside, if you can give us a little x-rays to what's going on in your brain when you're 25, 30, as far as strategy, what were your goals?

9:35And what did you think as a role model? For me, that was Magic Johnson. I thought he had a blueprint to what I wanted to do. Therefore, I went to him and met for him with three and a half hours. And he gave me the most incredible advice where I still have nine pages of notes. So that was kind of my roadmap. What was yours? Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because at that age 23 24 25 you're just thinking about getting to the big leagues you know it's it's a lot different today than where it was when we were playing to where you had to have your stuff sewed up you know everything your game had to be on point or whatnot are you going back down to triple a my situation was a little bit different i came up uh 24 25 ish i had jim tomey um in front of me at the time.

10:21So for me, the focus was getting up to the big leagues and didn't necessarily have the foresight right then. Because again, my mindset at that time was like, okay, my money's going to be made here in the big leagues, get that long-term deal. And you know, you'll be, you'll be good. But as we know, things change, the environment change, the game changes and social media, everything comes up. Your brand is now your brand. Your brand used to just be, hey, let me go out here and endorse, you know, this company or that company. Now it's you are a brand to where, yes, you can go and endorse that company or you can say, hey, you know what?

11:03My brand, my personal brand is so big. Give me equity in that company instead. I'd rather have that. So it was more so along those lines that later on in my career, looking at that was what kind of started to change that mindset to where I wish I would have been able to get turned on to that earlier in my career to kind of start planning post career like that. And so Ryan, you touched on something that I think is probably at the heart of so many of these conversations that we have, and Alex obviously embodies it in a big way, as do you, which is this notion of endorsement versus ownership and, you know, the equity piece.

11:48And I would love for you to talk to us about your investment in Liga MX. I'm going to try this. Queretaro, Gallos Blancos. Yeah, Queretaro. Do I get it? Queretaro. Yeah, Queretaro. Thank you. Okay, good. I mean, we're coming off the World Cup. Obviously, people are so into soccer, football, et cetera. How does that deal get to you? And tell us about the mechanics and how you approach it. Yeah, I mean, again, it's just through networks. It's actually with the Innovatio Capital and Mark Spiegel. It's funny because I know Mark, who helps lead that group. Our kids are in the same school. So it kind of came, it came, you know, pretty, pretty quick with me.

12:35And I've always loved soccer. I grew up playing soccer, always enjoyed it. I enjoy watching the English Premier League. So I was, I was in my element loving watching the World Cup this past, past summer. And so he brought the idea to me and it just made so much sense with the World Cup coming up. I was like, oh, in Mexico, the United States and Canada. just a bigger overall play because Mexican League is growing. I think soccer here in North America, especially now after World Cup, is continuing to grow. And the deal was just too good to pass up. So I said, hey, man, I'd love to be in it. And that's how I came to be.

13:25Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

14:06So, Ryan, walk us through how you think about deal flow, you know, like capital allocation. How do you think about deploying capital? You mentioned sometimes you can invest, sometimes you can get equity. Maybe there's a little bit of a hybrid where you can earn it over time with your sweat equity. What do you look for in deals and what gets you excited? Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind is obviously the person. I like to look at obviously having played baseball and using a lot of the baseball. You'll get a lot of the baseball terminology from me because I see what we learned from playing baseball, the work ethic, the patience that you have to have, the preparation, everything that goes into that.

14:51Right. Obviously studying the term sheets. But the first thing that you do is you meet the person and you try to learn their story, try to get to understand their story. Alex, you know what it was like. You know, the work that you put in behind the scenes, the blood, sweat, tears, all the stuff that the people didn't see. Because what did they see? They saw the finished product. They saw Alex Rodriguez on the field doing his thing. And so you get to peek behind the curtain and first get to learn about the founder. That's first and foremost. And I've got to feel good about that. The concept is the concept.

15:28And it's looking at something that's OK. One, either a huge disruptor or two, something that's more like organic to me to where it's like, OK, I really enjoy that or that's something that I would do on the regular. so I mean a lot of different things with sports with batter up um queretero those types of things I like to look into and then dive into the numbers and see okay how do we disrupt how do we turn this around ultimately at the end of the day how do we make money there you go how do we make money I mean it's it is it's as cut and dry I had a a great dear friend of mine Steve Corman he said Ryan, I'm going to give it to you short and sweet.

16:16He's in real estate. And he said, look, they can throw all these sheets in front of you and all this other stuff in front of you. But at the end of the day, how much is coming in and how much is going out? So when you can get it to make sense, then it makes sense. I love that. I have to say, it's so funny that you say that because one of the best questions Alex Rodriguez has ever asked on this show, and I'll leave it to the audience to go back and find this if they want, was very simply to a guest on the show, so explain to me how you make money, because it wasn't obvious. And that's the thing is that like so many times you just got to get, you got to keep it a bean and get it down to get it down to that question, right?

17:01Well, at the end of the day, that's what we're, that's what we're sitting in the meeting for. That's what you're getting pitched for. So it's ultimately, OK, the concept. I understand the concept. Got it. Got it. But all right. So how do we make money in certain things? You're looking at it from the roundabout way. OK, so when and how do we make money? So it's, you know, you understand that there's two sides of the coin. Just like with baseball, you can do everything right. You can do all the due diligence in the world and everything looks good. Same way. We can go in the cage before a game, take batting practice, hit off the tee, do all the stuff, watch film, do whatever we need to do and still go out there and go 0 for 4.

17:43So you got to have a little bit of luck as well with it, but also understand, okay, I've got to stick with it. And the other thing is to perseverance, perseverance, because I tell people a lot with baseball. And again, sorry for all the baseball references, but I used to say baseball was a game of failure, but I flipped it and it's more of a game of perseverance because it's the only sport you can play and fail 70 % of the time and still be considered successful. I look at that in business at times as well, because you can have multiple businesses that you invest in. Some of them don't work, but you get that one or two that hit a home run.

18:26Those other ones that didn't work don't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, no apologies for the baseball references. We're going to talk a lot of baseball as we go on. And and I think you I believe the technical term for Alex as it relates to baseball is he's a baseball sicko. So you never have to apologize on this show for talking too much baseball. And to that end, talk to us about Philly. I mean, and playing there, you know, it's just down the road from us in New York. My son actually went to college just outside of Philadelphia. It's Worthmore College. I spent a lot of time down there. And it's it's a sports town like no other, as as our friend LeBron James is about to find out.

19:08So from your perspective, like help us understand that because the business of Philadelphia sports must have been fascinating to be a part of. And you must have taken something away from that. Tell us about that. Oh, absolutely. I mean, first off, it's a blue collar town, obviously, from the sports standpoint. And they're going to keep you honest. They want a blue collar effort every single day. And as long as you can go out there and go give them that, then, you know, they'll they'll stay off you for the minute. it. Yeah. But, um, but the thing is too, in terms of learning about the business aspect in Philadelphia, it's again, it is, it's the people it's being able to interact with the people, being able to talk to the people and ask them what it is that they like in, in different things.

19:56So, you know, if it's whatever it is from the business standpoint. So if it's like, if I'm doing batter up in Philadelphia, Hey, what can we do better? What would you like to see? giving them that input because they love to have input. They love, they're going to tell you one way or the other. So you might as well, you know, make them, make them feel a part of it. And so I think that is very big too, is being able to go to the consumer and have those conversations and take that constructive criticism. Yeah. I mean, Alex Philly, it's, it's done like any, but like it, you, you played in a lot of different ballparks and those fans, I have to say, I have to think.

20:36They're tough, right? I mean, I think Ryan would echo what I have to say about the Philly fans. I think he would say about the Yankee fans. It's number one, blue collar. They want an honest day's work. I love DiMaggio's famous quote where he said, you know, there's a family out there saved all their money. And they may just go to one game. And I want to play. I want to play hard. I want to play well. And I think that's the way that Ryan and I, you know, went about it. and remember the generation before was Larry Boy and Buddy Bell and Pete Rose and guys that just got after it and that was the role model it wasn't an option to run to first, you ran your butt to first base but from the fan base, ultimate respect, incredible wisdom, you got a guy on second, you hit a ground by the second, you got a standing ovation St.

21:23Louis does that, Cubs fans do that, Red Sox, I mean there's a lot of great fan bases but the elite fan base I really do believe they live in the in the northeast and three of my friends got arrested in two games in the world series but not real jail in philly's jail at the at that stadium and i said what were you doing they said we were like you know waving our beads for good luck and they said you guys are going into jail i'm like wait wait i mean philly sports jail i don't doubt it yeah philly sports jail is like what a metaphor

22:01Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

22:42So, Ryan, as we talk more about baseball, Alex has said on this show, he's said it online, offline, probably on social media, probably on Fox. This year for baseball is among the most important that we've seen in a long time. As Alex mentioned at the top, you have a lot of great perspective on how the mechanics of this all works. This CBA is critical. What's your take at this moment on kind of where we are and where we need to get to as it relates to this negotiation? My personal take on the whole thing is this. I think the game is back close for me is, is back close to a place of where it was in 94 before the strike took place in, in 94.

23:38You look at the world series we just had, you look at the world baseball classic we just had, the excitement for baseball is back. I don't know the odds and ends and the ins and outs of everything thus far that's taking place with the conversations. You hope that both sides can come together and get it figured out, which I think ultimately they wind up doing that. And I think they will. My biggest hope is that we don't have a lockout. And if we do, that it doesn't spill over into the season. So I think that everybody's going to work hard. They've got the right people in place to be able to have those conversations and just, you know, go in there with an open mind and, and see what, see what's what there's got to be some, there's, there's going to be some give and take, I believe on both sides.

24:31Jason and I were talking offline before you jumped on. And I think you're the perfect person as an entrepreneur now, an owner of businesses. Again, you're a family guy. So you have a long term perspective and love affair with the game of baseball, you want baseball to win. If you had to wear a McKenzie or a Bain consultant hat and you didn't play 100 years in Major League Baseball and you didn't own a team with the limited information that you have, because obviously we're not previewed to everything, but conceptually you understand the basic issues. What advice would you give both sides if you bring the head of the union and Rob Manfred and Dan Halem, what would be your advice to piece this thing together?

25:16I'd say, you know what, let's settle it old school. You guys both grab a bat. Let's see if you can hit more home runs.

25:24But, you know, that's a tough question because there's so much on both sides. And unless you have the full scope of the picture, it's hard to really kind of throw out any kind of advice on it. So that's where it's just, you know, it's the question is how deep is the rabbit hole? You know, so I don't like I say, I'm not really like in those conversations or have been in those conversations. So to really try to speak on it would be it doesn't really do a whole lot. But I would just say for anybody, I think you got to have the entire picture to be able to really be able to weigh in on something like that.

26:08I mean, I guess the only question that I would ask, I would ask this of both of you because I come at it from a fan's perspective and someone who cares about the gaming and obviously, you know, is interested in business. That's that's my the entirety of my knowledge here. But I do know from having been and full disclosure, Ryan, part of the while you're in Atlanta now. And I love that as an Atlanta Braves fan, I had some feelings about you and the Phillies over the years, you know, at least. But, you know, with Alex, with the Yankees, with you, with the Phillies, with me as an Atlanta fan, like we've had the benefit of being like among the halves, as it were, you know, like teams that were like investing heavily.

26:50and willing to sort of pay. I guess I wonder, and Alex, maybe you can answer this first for me. How do you get sort of the haves and the have-nots together on something? Because that seems to be the core issue here, that you just have this unbelievable disparity. You guys had the benefit of playing for well-resourced, huge fan-based teams, but not everybody has that. So, Alex, I just don't know how baseball circles that square. But I think if you just zoom out, right, and I'm going to give it to you back, Jason. So don't think you're going to escape this question. You're going to answer the same question Ryan and I did.

27:27But I was just saying, look, very basic. You have four major leagues in the U.S., right? You have hockey, you have the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Back in the day, call it 40 years ago, 50 years ago, it's safe to say baseball was number one. Okay? That's no longer the case today. How do you value these leagues? I think there's three major metrics. Enterprise value, appreciation of these franchises. I think you look at gross revenue, right, that teams are making, and then you make salaries. And the truth of it is, if you stack all four of the leagues, baseball is below, they're number fourth by far in every category.