The Business of Baseball with Orioles President Catie Griggs

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0:42Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. And Alex, there you are. The walls are blank. You're not in a witness protection program. You're just in your new office in Minneapolis. It's all happening, man. Like you are Mr. Minneapolis these days. I have to ask you, I'm talking to you a couple days after game one of the playoffs, Lynx versus Valkyries. Listen, I watched it on TV. It looked electric. What was it like in there? It really was, Jason. It was a sold-out crowd. One seed, worth of one seed. Joe Lacob's team is, you know, the eighth seed. He came down. We spent some time together.

1:25He's such a great guy. So Joe Lacob, just to remind people, so, you know, the majority owner of the Golden State Warriors and now the Valkyries, which is the brand new WNBA team, this is the first time an expansion team has made the playoffs in their first year. They've been so exciting to watch. Like, what's he saying about the day? Is he excited? It was more me saying to him and congratulating him. And, I mean, Joe Lacob, he can write a masterclass just like Jerry Jones and others. I mean, the way he creates value, he basically sold out every ticket for every game of the season, sponsorship, record-breaking for year one.

1:59And the fact that they have a really good team and they're in the playoffs just tells you what a great operator he is. Yeah. So what are you feeling as you're watching this? Because you're the governor of the most successful WNBA team in history in the Lynx, four championships, going for a fifth. We're in the final last year and lost to the Liberty. What's the vibe from where you sit? Well, first of all, yes, four titles, and I had nothing to do with any of them. But as my first year as governor, as you mentioned, Jason, I was very nervous, very excited. You know, there's two things about sports that make you really scared.

2:36These short series, three, five games, and this is the best of three. Yeah. It doesn't matter who's better. I mean, one ball, one call can go the other way, and you're done. So good for showing. The fan base was awesome. There's a very, very sticky, very passionate, very smart fan base. And because we have such great continuity, the fans and the team is almost like one. I mean, they do all this dancing. They do this post-game celebration where they dance. No one leaves until that dance is over, including me. By the way, the WNBA product is just so, so good. And if you look at the numbers, the viewership numbers, they're actually comparable to baseball.

3:14Yeah. You know, Sunday night baseball. And it's a really exciting time. Yeah. It is really cool to watch. I mean, obviously, the team, too, is just so fun to watch. I mean, with Nafisa Collier especially leading it, you know, a leading candidate for MVP. So I'm excited. I got to get out. I want to come to a game with you. Please, please. All right. And when you're here, please help me decorate my office because it looks like I'm in the witness protective program. Yeah, it's really something. But, you know, you've got a new CEO. Like, everything's getting underway. Right. And it also, speaking of you being, you know, Mr.

3:45Minnesota and Mr. Minneapolis, do I also understand you went to a baseball game there with, so Twins Yankees. Yeah. So my afternoon, walking every inch of our arena at Target, looking for opportunities to improve the fan experience, add seats, luxuries, the VIP experiences, which was fun. And then I walked across literally the hallway over here where there's a bridge that takes you from our arena to Target Field. And my Yankees were there. So I went to see Michael Kay and I went to see Susan Waldman, went to see some of the players. And it's always good. Unfortunately, the Twins beat us down pretty good yesterday.

4:24I think we lost 7-0. But it was always great to see the Yankees. Yeah. And so how are you feeling about the Yankees right now? That loss notwithstanding, how are you feeling? Yeah, I think they're playing better. I think there's a bit of a gift and curse. They've had a bit of an inconsistent year, but they're playing much better as of late. And if there's one year where you can kind of sneak into the World Series, it's this one, because there's no real alpha in the American League. It's literally wide open. Every team is, there's no perfect team. And if there are two pitchers, Max Fried and the others can join, they got some great young pitching too.

5:02I think they have a shot. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what these playoffs look like. We talk a little bit later in this episode. Coming up, we've got Katie Griggs. She's the president of the Baltimore Orioles. Obviously, they're not threatening the Yankees right now. It's been a bit of a tough ride for them. But fascinating to hear what she's up to there. Massive business opportunity in a really good market. You know, you and I know a number of people in the ownership there. David Rubenstein, our sort of colleague of sorts here at Bloomberg. He hosts a show, Peer to Peer Conversations, as well as some other shows here.

5:34Michael Erighetti, the CEO of Aries, is the number two partner there at the Orioles. And some other folks, Cal Ripken, your childhood idol, he's part of the ownership group now. So there's a lot to be excited about on the field, but certainly off the field. So I really enjoyed catching up with her and hearing her vision for it. She started out, you know, or she worked at one point in Seattle, just like you did. If I can just make one little bet, I'm buying some stock and I'm buying some property for the Baltimore Orioles for the next five years, because I think the stock is low, but I think it's going to the moon under this ownership.

6:07Obviously, the management team and the young players they have, if they can retain them, I think they have a shot to do really special things. Yeah, I mean, as a Yankees fan, you're probably a little worried about them coming up when they really get it together. I mean, the AL East is certainly some of the best real estate in all of baseball. And when all of those teams get going, it's really, really good for the game. All right, coming up, Katie Greggs from the Orioles.

6:35This week on Leaders with me, Francine Lacqua. I speak to tennis legend Rafa Nadal about how he stayed competitive despite injury. I was able to enjoy the victories probably more than if I will not have this issue. One iconic match. In my mind was, I am almost dead. And whether he misses playing. I don't miss tennis because there was nothing else to offer. Listen and watch Leaders with me, Francine Lacqua, on Bloomberg Television or wherever you get your podcasts.

7:12Welcome back to The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside Alex Rodriguez. So excited to have with us Katie Griggs. She's the president of business operations for the Baltimore Orioles, someone we've been circling around because we have a lot of friends in your organization, Katie, but we wanted to talk to the boss, the person who actually runs this ship day to day. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. So let's start with the state of baseball. How would you characterize it? You know, you've been in baseball for some time now. What's the business of baseball here in 2025 in a few words? I think the business of baseball is strong.

7:47We still play a really unique role in the sports ecosystem. We have a lot of games, and I think it's one of the things that makes us special. We have the opportunity to bring people together and create those spaces where people are coming together over shared passions versus perhaps being in situations where they either don't interact or are torn apart by differences. And I think you need more of those spaces. And we're seeing fans going and spending time at ballparks. Attendance remains strong. TV viewership remains strong. And I do think that the introduction of the pitch clock and shortening the game time is something that does have a role to play in that.

8:18I'm glad you went to the sort of the rule changes and what we've seen over the last couple of years. How do you see it from a business perspective? Like, how did it play through to either, you know, fan engagement, fans in seats, merch, concessions? Like, did you see a real change as these rules sort of came in to the top line and bottom line of your business? Well, I think there's a lot of questions leading up to it about what was that impact going to be. My guiding light has been and remains that if you do the right thing for your fans, it's good for your business. I think that holds true in this case.

8:51We've heard for a long time that the game was long, and we know that we're in a world of shortened attention spans. We talk a lot about share of watch versus share of wallet. And the reality is this isn't something that's brand new. This is simply taking game times back to what they were a decade or two ago. So it's not changing the game. It's not fundamentally altering it. And I think what you saw last year in year one was economics were pretty similar in terms of those in-game economics. You know, some teams saw growth. Some teams saw minor decreases. That's something that's pretty common year over year and didn't seem to be materially impacted by it.

9:26But again, we've seen strong attendance in the league. We've seen strong viewership in the league over the last few years. And I think, you know, it's certainly not too difficult to surmise that that's a part of it. So, Katie, when you zoom out and you look at the four major sports in American sports, right, that's MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL. NHL has had the best growth the last four or five years. NBA and NFL have been pretty similar, both high double digits, NHL over 20 percent. But baseball is mid-single digits. What do you attribute this to? And the word on the street is that the best buy right now from the four major sports is baseball, and the multiples are quite attractive.

10:05How do you make baseball more attractive from an enterprise point of view? And where's the growth in baseball? I think the growth in baseball is recognizing what's always been there and making sure we're creating environments where all fans feel not only welcome but wanted. When you look at the diversity of our athletes on the field, it's no secret. It's changed over time. When you look at the ways in which teams have shifted from more urban center ballpark locations out to suburbs, that does carry with it. It's more difficult to get there. You have less public transit. it. And I think the reality is when you have 162 games each season, it's incumbent upon us to create 162 opportunities or at least 81 at home and hopefully more to attract fans and create a spot where everyone feels welcome.

10:46And so as someone who has a privilege of working for a club in a really diverse city, I don't know that historically we can look ourselves in the eye and say we've done all that we could or should to make sure that everyone feels welcome, everyone feels wanted, and we've created a space that really does serve the needs of our entire community. And Katie, a follow-up on that, like if you were to be a commissioner for one day, is there two or three things you would try to implement? And by the way, Rob Bamford, who's the commissioner now, has done a fantastic job. As you mentioned, some of the rules already changed, but how would you add to that?

11:17I think, look, there are a lot of really great things that are already underway. And so from my standpoint, I think we are moving in the right direction. One of the things that I know that there's been an emphasis on that I would continue building on is the connection that fans have to athletes. the increased focus on storytelling, not only about the incredible athletic feats that are happening on the field of play every single day and every single evening, but also about who these athletes are. I mean, we have incredible men playing the sport throughout the league, throughout each and every team.

11:44And the more that we focus on solely their athletic exploits, you know, not all of us can be big league players. Most of us can't, but we can all relate to the characteristics that each and every one of these people brings to the sport, to the game and to themselves. And I think helping people find those connections, helping people see themselves in these athletes, whether it's someone where it reminds me of my brother, he reminds me of my uncle, reminds me of a buddy of mine. The more effectively we're able to showcase the players themselves, which is something that I would argue the NBA in particular has done a very good job at, I think the more successful we'll be.

12:15Does it feel like the players are up for that? I would imagine that players would look at the baseball players would look at the NBA and be like, yeah, those guys are making more money off the court because of all of those things. How much convincing do you have to do as a smart business person to these players who presumably are increasingly smart business people in their own right? Yeah, I think there'd be tremendous hubris in putting myself inside the head of a professional big league player. So I might turn that one into Alex. But from my standpoint, we are at a phase where when you look at the age of a lot of the players of the game, like this is a social media generation.

12:50This is a generation that grew up with the internet and social media being part of their everyday lives and telling their stories and how they connect to their friends and each other. So I think from a willingness and an understanding and an appetite, it's there. The question is and always remains. In a sport like baseball, when there are so many games and so many demands placed upon these athletes. How do you do this in a way that's organic? How do you do this in a way that's authentic? And how do you do this in a way that is meaningful and natural and comfortable for each one of them? And building that system where they know they're set up for success here, right?

13:21This is something there isn't that gotcha moment. This is about how do we celebrate them as people and every single person is unique. But I'd be curious on Alex's thoughts on it. Yeah, Alex, what do you think? Is it starting to resonate? I think so. And the numbers suggest so as well. I mean, baseball's had a 24-month run here that is as good as I've seen in quite a long time. I think it's an interesting thing about narrative, right? I mean, we always thought when I came in in 1994 that baseball was the most attractive sport for TV because we had so much content. And we grew up in an era where they said more content's better.

13:51Somehow they flipped that on his head and are saying they're holding that against us, right? Because it's not as scarce. But I don't see it that way. I think we have to be able to turn that narrative like the Titanic and say we have a better offering because we can be on T162 games, which is like a soap opera at home every night. So I think there's some work to do there. I also think there's some low-hanging fruit. I mean, if you think about Thanksgiving this year, you have the Dallas Cowboys going up against Kansas City in the second slot on CBS. And I heard Jim Nance talking about it that he thinks is going to be the largest TV audience ever for a regular season game.

14:23So how do we take July 4th as the American Day and take America's pastime and have both Fox and ESPN, the media partners, on location and have the best four games from the time that is 12 to midnight, and it should be all baseball every day. I don't want to see the hot dogs. The hot dogs are great on ESPN, but it should be America's pastime. And then I think to Katie's point, you've never had better young players than you have today since I've been around the game for the last 30 or 40 years. And, you know, how do we take the helmet off of the Gunnar Hendersons, the Aaron Judge, the Otanis? But then there's a second layers of that, right?

14:58Who's the next Bryce Harper? and a lot of them play on Katie's team, the Baltimore Orioles. So I think we have to be able to do a better job of storytelling. Is that some reality TV where we follow them around in the offseason to find out who they are so we can be invested? Especially like my mom and my sister, they care more about the person, not just the stats. And I think we can appeal to women a lot better than we are right now. Yeah, it's interesting, Katie. I mean, to think about your franchise in particular, You know, I came along at a time and I've been a baseball fan all my life. You and I shared a little common history as Southerners.

15:33And I know you worked in Atlanta for a time for the soccer club down there, I believe. You know, I've been a Braves fan all my life. We could talk about the Braves. It's painful in their current iteration. But, you know, one of the greatest storylines in the history of baseball was Cal Ripken. You know, Cal Ripken Jr. I mean, you know, an unbelievable thing. Now, he's obviously, I know he's, you know, back more involved with the club. He's a minority owner. You know, I've spent some time with him. I know he's a hero of Alex's. How do you marry this, you know, kind of youth movement and all the stuff we're talking about with this, like, rich heritage you have as a club?

16:14I think that's a huge strength and an asset. So to your point on Cal, we had the opportunity to celebrate him recently in the 30th anniversary of his 21-31 feet, which I don't know how that ever gets broken at this point. But I think one of the things that does make baseball so special is the true connection and tie that it has. It is that sense of tradition. It is that sense of history. You know, whenever I'm at a game, I'm still struck in the seventh inning. You have the seventh inning stretch. Everyone in the ballpark knows the song. Yeah. Those moments don't happen elsewhere, right? Different teams, different leagues, everyone has special things that make them unique.

16:47So this isn't a better than, but I do think it's something that's different than, is we have the opportunity to celebrate the history. We have the opportunity to celebrate all of our all-time greats. You have a lot of really incredible records, many of which still stand. You still talk about the athletes who played 100 years ago as if they were stars today. And that's something you simply don't see. And so I think there's a really unique opportunity to showcase not only all of the incredible things that are happening now and will be happening in the future, but also tie them back to what makes us great, what makes this sport great, and particularly in communities, what makes these communities great?

17:22There's so many special moments, using Baltimore as an example, whether they're here at Camden Yards or at Memorial Stadium, where this team means something to this community, right? And it means something to this community because it's something that you've been a part of, whether you're a young adult and you're listening to your mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandparents, what have you. This is a club that means something to this city. And I think being able to reflect on that history while also celebrating the present and future is a really unique strength and asset to baseball that's somewhat unique.

17:51Katie, speaking of community and assets, one of the greatest assets that you have, in my opinion, from playing there for almost 25 years is Camping Yards. It's truly one of the great landmarks in America, not just Baltimore area. When you think about your job and, you know, whether that's cutting expenses, adding different levers to add revenue, that will affect tremendously because you do play in the Ivy League of baseball, the American League East, and it's been there for a very long time. How do you compete against the Boston Red Sox, the New York Yankees, and so on and so forth? Very tough competition.

18:28How do you think about that? I mean, I won't speak too in depth from the baseball side, because again, I don't want to get out over my skis, but I think the reality is we compete by being ourselves. We compete by leaning into the things that make us special. We compete to leaning into the fact that we have incredible community and amazing ballpark and a lot of things where just the mentality ethos of this place is we're going to do it differently. Like, great. You've got the money. Great. You've got this great. You've got that. That's fine. We're just going to outwork you, right? We're going to show up.

18:55It's, I think Cal is the perfect example of what exemplifies Baltimore and the Baltimore ethos. I mean, he was a guy who showed up every single day, right? No off days. You come up, you show up, you work hard and you come back again and do it again tomorrow. I think there are certain things about this team and this community that are just incredibly special and incredibly unique. And that's not to say that you don't have great things about all of the other clubs. Every club has things that make them special and unique. But I think what's going to help Baltimore win is by being Baltimore and not trying to pretend that they're the Yankees, not trying to pretend that we're the Red Sox because we're not.

19:29And that doesn't make us weaker. It just makes us different. So I'm glad Alex brought up Camden Yards because I remember going there, you know, when I was going to college nearby and just being sort of blown away. It was so different back then. There are a lot of ballparks in the intervening, you know, couple decades, several decades that have copied a lot of the playbook. I know Alex is thinking a lot about this as an owner in a different league now. Now, how do you think about the physical plant? How do you think about the area around the stadium? I know that this is something that ownership has talked about, but how do you think about the opportunities to create even more of an ecosystem around Camden Yards?

20:11Well, I think one of the things that makes it special that we touched on earlier is the fact that we are in the heart of the city, right? We're walking distance to the harbor. We're somewhere where there's public transit. You have the ability for different fans to get here, whether they're fans who are here in Baltimore City or fans throughout the sort of mid-Atlantic region. That, I believe, is a unique strength. And to your point, Camden Yards is a cathedral. Like, it is such a special ballpark. And we are so fortunate to have statewide support to actually continue to invest in it and make sure that it is as great for fans looking ahead as it has been for fans to date.

20:43And so for us, it really is about doubling down on the fan experience here, making sure that we're creating spaces and experiences that resonate with different fans and recognize different people want different things at different times, and that's okay, right? This is no longer about telling people how they should watch a baseball game. It's creating the opportunity for fans to consume a baseball game and take part of it in a way that actually makes sense for them and feels right for them. So I think inside the ballpark, we're very committed to that. We've got a lot of construction that'll be going on this off scene part of that project.

21:11And then looking around the ballpark, look, one of the counterpoints of a urban center ballpark is it is in the urban center. And so for us ensuring that we're collaborating with public and private sector to make sure that this is a safe, comfortable, and part of town where our fans want to be, where our fans feel safe, where our fans feel welcome, that always is top of mind. And so do you look at something, do you draw, I'm going back to the Braves for a second, again, I'm my own worst enemy in this regard, not talking about on the field, but talking about off the field, you know, Alex, every time he goes down and sees Truist, he raves about the battery and everything that they've done around there.

21:47As you look around the league and maybe tapping into your experience in Seattle, where Alex started his career, you know, what do you see that you like? What are the things where, you know, you call your counterpart, you know, at another club and say, how'd you do that? Like, what are the things that you have, you know, sort of presidential envy over? I think there are a lot of different things. To your point, looking down in Atlanta, I had the privilege of being down there as they were building and building out Truist Park and the Battery. I think they did an incredible job. I think it's very different than our situation.

22:19You know, they were there at the intersection of two major highways where they had a lot of real estate because it's not in the urban core. So they had the ability to build out this really amazing environment around the ballpark that I think works great for them. I don't think that approach would necessarily be appropriate in the middle of Baltimore, but I do think that there are other teams that are doing interesting things. You've seen a lot of development around Fenway and Wrigley. You've seen a lot of development around the Cardinal Stadium and down in Colorado. So there are a number of different teams who are in more similar locations to us who have been thinking strategically and creatively about how do they make sure that the space around their ballpark is space that fans want to be.