Chasing Evil: Voices of the Dead with John Edward & Bob Hilland

28:00We're talking about crime. We're talking about things that are outside of the scope of what most people are going to have to hopefully go through. And that gives them the opportunity to suspend their own personal loss and kind of come in a back door and say, well, how would John Edward know that if Bob Hillen didn't tell him that? How did Bob Hillen find that person on the side of the highway if that didn't come out in the first reading? How did he know that there were breast implants with serial numbers on them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? All of that now represents the skeptical mindset of the person who doesn't believe in the subject matter who can come into it in that way.

28:46So Bob represents those people for the people who don't have a belief system. So for anybody that has that person in their lives that you want to get them to think about, maybe something metaphysical, paranormal, supernatural, is there a survival of consciousness? Chasing Abel is a great way to get them to kind of walk through that door without them realizing they're walking through that door. Yeah, I don't, to that point, the book wasn't written to try to convince anybody of anything, right? This was not an homage to John. John is who he says he is. And I know that because I lived and read it with him, right?

29:20I'm not a salesperson for John Edward. He's my brother, but I can attest from my own time with him that he is who he is. And all the people who expressed skepticism, that was me. I get that. But this is what it is. The book is simply a documentary of the events that took place between us. And as I think you may have alluded to, Sean, when you read it, you're going to feel like you're part of these cases with us. And it's fascinating how I met him on this one case and how that one was like a domino. It led to so many other things and so many other cases. And it was just, I honestly believe that all these things happened for a reason the way they were supposed to I couldn't appreciate it back then I didn't understand it but looking back now and you know you can it's easy to take dots looking back when you're going through it it's hard to make sense of it but it all seems to make sense to me now you know I think it what it really also does too guys and thank you both for that is look right in front of you like that was one of the things that It was John telling you within the book, look, it's right in front of your face.

30:29Look at it. Pay attention, right? And everybody every day is going through something like that, that they're not seeing that's right underneath their nose. Yeah, 100%, right? And the book is going to detail things. When you're an investigator, you want to square the touchdown. You want to put the guy in jail. and sometimes it doesn't always work out the way that you hope. But I've learned that sometimes the way it happens, it's supposed to happen that way. And it may be frustrating at a time when I'm experiencing it and it pissed me off. And I would call him up yelling at him and in the world and he would say, it was supposed to happen this way.

31:10So what are you talking about? It's supposed to happen this way. But I look back now and that goes to everybody who's listening to this. I personal lives. When we're going through those hardships, you say, why God? And why me? And then years later, you say, you know what? I had to go through those things to get to this really great thing. If I didn't experience all those trials and tribulations and get knocked down, I wouldn't have achieved this great thing. And I think to me that that's representing the book as well. 1000%. And look, you know, those things that you're talking about, those trials, tribulations.

31:45Those are the growth moments, right? You know, you're a big dude. You're what, six, eight. How tall are you? Six, eight. Yeah. Massive man, right? You know, strong lifting weights, but, but when you lift weights, do you stop when it hurts or do you go to failure? Right. I mean, like, that's the thing that confuses me about, about life in general is too many people want to lay off when, you know, when their brain tells them, Hey, seek comfort. Comfort's where you go to die. Right. And yeah, it's easy to lay down. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I really enjoyed it because, you know, all these setbacks in the cases, the, the natural evolution of your friendship, it all had to come out like that for it to be as strong and as riveting as it is now.

32:29Right. And those things are built by design. And so there's a lot of people out there, right. That say that stuff. but if you bring the idea of a john edward to him oh that's no no no well you can't believe in one thing and and not believe in the other right because they're connected in and we're true energy forms right that's that's truly what we are and so this whole thing is just fascinating to me and then and to be fully transparent i semi-believed it was more hopeful right john I mean, I was very hopeful that this thing would exist. And one day I would have an opportunity to go somewhere and have an experience with someone that can answer some questions about my past, right?

33:17And then my wife's as well. And when I'm reading this, it's not just hope anymore. And that's what I want the audience to really dive into. Like, guys, honestly, pick up this book. Just pick up the book, read it. I mean, preferably a hard copy. But if you need to read it on the internet or an audiobook, listen to it. read it because here's the thing what they're gonna find guys is they're gonna find evidence of you guys piecing something together and it was almost like moments where john would say one thing and then you would talk to maybe a former boss of john smith and it would be like dead on.

33:58It would be dead on about control, just pure evil. Well, oftentimes he would say things to me that were silly and he'd say, oh, they're showing me whatever, a soccer ball, they're showing me this. I'm like, what does that mean? What the hell does that mean? And I don't want to say dismissive of it, but that's how it felt to me. And then when that moment happened, when that thing manifested or appeared, it was like an out-of-body experience. And I go, oh, my God. And then the trick for me was not talking myself out of, oh, this was a coincidence. This was just because it's easy to do that, right?

34:36It's easy to explain it away. But through experience, I started realizing this isn't just a soccer ball. This isn't just this. This has purpose and meaning. And I think as I grew with my relationship with John, the better I could appreciate that and understand that and not question it. Maybe that's it. And Sean, for me, the fun part being like, like the Robin to Batman here was kind of like watching the tenacity of some of the things that this man did where I'd be like, you did what now? And one of my favorite things is when he put, Bob, when you put the photo in the window at the mall. oh my god it's the glamour shots oh yeah that that didn't work out so well dude yeah you got lit up by that lady that did not work out that was like when he told me he did that i was like oh my god i can't believe you did that and the second part was that's pretty brilliant that's actually pretty brilliant so it triggered her oh it triggered her yes it did did uh but things happen the way they're supposed to i guess you know that and then sean did you get up to the confrontation moment where Bob put like, like the whole sting operation together where everybody was being confronted in John Smith's world yet?

35:55Yeah. So we were just, I'm at the part where we were just talking about it. And then the one agent said, no, this is a bad idea. And then went to another agent and said, well, what do you think? She's like, I think Bob's idea is a great idea. Um, I think I'm, I got a front row seat to all of that. Like I literally was like, that to me, that to me was just like another reason why, I'm in. To be a medium, you have to be somewhat nosy and curious about what's happening while you're in the zone. And to see the lengths that he went to try to bring closure. And I don't even want to say to Betty Fran's family, but to the memory of Betty Fran.

36:34Huge, absolutely huge. Yeah. I mean, I can tell we're just starting, the stove is just starting to get hot, so to speak, in the book. And I'm, like I said, I'm reading it on the computer. So I'm about, I'd say probably 120 pages and somewhere around there. I don't remember, but I mean, it's probably more pages than I read all year, guys. It has to grab me. You know, it really has to grab me. And, you know, admittedly, my wife will tell you this. She likes to watch the hopeless romantic thing. She likes to watch the comedies. I'm like, ooh, let's watch something that twists my brain. Like I want to be twisted.

37:20I want to be pulled. I want all the ups and downs. And then I want the wow factor at the end. And so this genre of the book, like you said, pretty much just a memoir, a biography of everything that went on is hitting me somewhere where I really like to be led. I like the aspect of the whole thing. Yeah, well, you should have tried living it. It was quite an experience, right? And then, you know, the circumstances where I had to hide it from the Bureau and sometimes things happen where I had to kind of reveal to some of my close friends what was really happening. And, you know, it was something.

37:57It was something to live through. And, you know, the reality is there's many cases covered in this book. The Smith case was the one that brought us together. But each one of these cases probably could have been a book in and of itself. So it was challenging to get as much as we did in this one book, but we did our best. So you're saying there's going to be more? John, you're a psychic. Is there going to be more? I think that's to be determined, right? Oh, no. Let's see how this goes. I mean, there's more for us. We know that there's more for us. We don't know how much more public it'll get. That's cool, though.

38:31Listen, here's the thing. You're reading the PDF version, right? Yeah. So I want your immediate, because I like your energy. I like where you're coming from. What's your perspective? You see this in a bookstore. or does that make you go, I want to buy that? I want to pick it up or does it make you feel like, Oh no, that's too dark. No, no, no, no. Not for me. I'm like, Ooh, chasing evil. Hell yeah. Let's do this. Right. Because I think everybody has that side to them where they like to be kind of, you know, tweaked around a little bit mentally because, you know, it's a whole reality out there and it's happening out in the world.

39:03Um, but for me, you know, it's a, it's a pull, right?

39:11It's, even just the cover it's the title you're like chasing evil that's interesting why in the world would anybody want to chase evil like but if it were conquering evil be like no like it's perfect i actually want an autographed copy guys i'm just going to throw it out there to all i think we can arrange that i think we can you know people that know people that know my people that can get it Yeah, we know people. Yeah. I don't have any people, so. No, you have people. You have people. So, Bob, let me ask you a question because you had mentioned that you started – you had to be very careful on how the Bureau found out about it, but also there was moments where you had to tell your closest friends.

39:56What were the reasonings and how did that go? Well, one comes to mind. There was a case involving somebody who disappeared at Yale University, and I was on the scene with some agents and Connecticut State police officers. And John called me from Ireland, I believe it was. And in true John fashion, he starts lighting up like an electrical storm. And he's telling me, she's right there, she's right there. And he starts guiding me through this labyrinth of hallways and doors and rooms. And ultimately later, the victim was found where he said she would be. But when we had searched there initially, we said, yeah, she's not here.

40:36She's not here. So all my colleagues see me talking on the phone to somebody and they go, who was that? And I go, it's just somebody. Then when the body was found, they're like, all right, what's the deal here? How did you... Well, then there was another case where unbeknownst to me, somebody was in my proximity at midnight on a hill and I was looking for a missing boy and he overheard me talking to John. That was another time. So I was very careful, right? I certainly did not want to disclose my relationship with John to anyone. So, but somehow we managed pretty successfully. How'd you guys work through that?

41:14I mean, when, when a couple of people started finding out, did you, did you call John and be like, Hey, this is going on. And how did that work between you two? Yeah, I think there were kind of one-off occasions. Right. And, uh, the people who I did disclose it to were people that I had relationships They were my colleagues, my friends, and the circumstances were so specific when they would say, hey, Bob, how did you know to look there? What brought you there? It wasn't like I was psychic. It wasn't like I had this ability. What really is going on there? When they heard the story, even from their perspective, and by the way, they are in the book.

41:53Some of these FBI agents have been interviewed for the book. Their testimony is in there as well. They would say it's undeniable. there's no way Bob could have known this. There's no way these things could have manifested. Right. So it is what it is. You know, that's how it went down. And then there were all the times when I was able to kind of create some kind of cover story, just a lucky guess, or I had a, I had a source, a source told me that that's a big bureau thing. I got a source, but you got a pretty good damn source. Who's your source in the bureau? You don't say who's your source. That's like, you know, who's your girlfriend?

42:24You don't tell your girlfriend is right. So. And I think, Sean, what was cool is like about a week and a half ago, one of the producers from Crossing Over got a copy of the book and she read it and she called me up and she was like, dude, oh my God, all of this was going on while we were filming the show and you never talked about it. You never like you never said a word. I was like, no. Well, it's funny you say that because I do remember early on in our relationship, you were filming in Manhattan and I would show up. And, you know, it's hard for me to not stand out, right? You don't blend, Bob.

43:00And all of a sudden, I would see all these people look at me and say, like, all right, are we in trouble? What's going on? Who was this guy? You know? And so it's interesting from your perspective, I guess, too, as well. But here was my cover. You ready? I was having severe death threats. I mean, you know that, right? Because some of them you actually made sure that I was safe. We had gotten a really, really bad one where somebody had described in great detail what they wanted to do to me, my wife, my dogs. It was pretty graphic. It was a very scary period of time. So Bob showing up at that time, they just automatically assumed it's a security thing.

43:38He's just, we don't need to know about that. It's about security. So that's what they thought. They had no idea it was all this other stuff. and then ironically uh my my wife at the time she never believed and she's met john several times you know but she thought i was an idiot i was a fool what am i doing with this guy how dumb could i be the whole time so that was another friction point where you know my relationship with john was galvanized i knew who he was and what he was and i've got my wife next to me saying what are you stupid you know so that was that was enjoyable yeah it sounds like a blast man oh it was it was yeah and then i have my wife when she's reading the book literally says to me so how much of this was fictionalized and i'm like um none of it it's all documented from like bob stuff and she's like you know probing me like i know but for like story purposes like did you pump stuff up did you make It sounded like, you know, better.

44:40So I legit called Bob, put him on speaker. And I said, Bob, how much of this book is fiction? And Bob's like, none of it. You were there. He goes, why are you asking me this? I was like, oh, no, no, no. You're on speaker. This is for Sandra. I need Sandra to hear it from you. This is all happening. The business wants to know. Yeah. I'll tell you this, Sean. You know, law enforcement, just the culture, we're great at when we get together, we share war stories. It's part of the culture, right? And we do that for many reasons. Number one, so we can learn from each other. Like I had this case, let me tell you how it went down, what we did.

45:14But we're notorious for telling our stories. The few times, the very few times where I share with my colleagues my stories about John, you could have knocked them over with a feather. Their jaws dropped. They said, you got to be kidding me. It was so for me to have that reaction amongst people who were very experienced, very seasoned when they heard the story, especially me. I'm the last guy in the world. Bob Hill doesn't talk to psychics. Bob, not Bob. And for me to come forward and tell this to get their reaction, if your audience has any kind of interest in true crime and the paranormal, they're going to be riveted to the story.

45:55I mean, it piques a curiosity, guys. right i mean for the for the people out there you know listening right now or even watching could could that right there what you just said no matter where they're at in their life no matter what their belief level or hope level that's this stuff is real you just made them think but what if right like you know to me it's it's irrefutable after reading the first hundred pages like with some of the stuff that went on like good lord i would i would offer that too right I appreciate all the skeptical comments that we've heard. And certainly, I get it because I was that guy.

46:32But law enforcement, no matter how diligent you are, there are times when you can run down every lead. And you may know that this is the guy and this is what happened, but proving it is another thing. But to those skeptics, I would say, what if, God forbid, one of your loved ones was missing? Something happened. And Bob Hillen is running this down. And I run into every dead end. And there's no start I've left unturned. But I just happen to have this friend of mine over here, John, who maybe can create new leads for me or maybe who could give me a point or give me some direction. Would you not want me to talk to him?

47:08Right? I would venture to say there's going to be very few percentage of people say, no, I'm good. Yeah, right. Sure. Like, why would you? What if? What do you have to lose? I mean, yeah. I mean, you're already dealing with such loss. Right. It wasn't like John was a magic eight ball and I said, should I go do this? And the magic eight ball said, most definitely. It's not how it worked. No, there was still a lot of work to be done on your behalf and a lot of collaboration with the Bureau and supporting law enforcement, everything like that. So I don't want them to think like, hey, he just told me this is what happened.

47:47He gave you clues. He led you to it, right? But what an amazing gift. John, does it ever, I mean, does it, does it tire you out ever? Like, I would imagine. Yeah, it can be draining. It can be tiring. It really, really depends on the circumstances of the people that I'm encountering. Some people are just really, really lovely to work with. Some people have a lot of heavy stuff happening around them and, and, and kind of navigating that is like swimming through jello, you know, molasses. It's not exactly an easy, uh, it's not an easy swim. But I'm dedicated to what I do. I want to leave people better than I find them.

48:26And I've said this publicly, I didn't solve anything. Any of these cases, Bob worked on, he solved, he gets the credit. All I did was provide him insights and guidance. No different than when somebody comes to me and they're grieving. I can't heal their grief. I can hopefully empower them with information that there's a survival of consciousness. And that information kind of puts them into the spiritual gym. And it's like spiritual fitness. What they do with that is really up to them. That's a great point. Like spiritual fitness, right? We're all searching for answers. We're all searching for a feeling.

49:00And if you can turn that on a little bit for somebody and then they can build on that and go seek other answers for themselves and be more kinetic, you know, connected to the energy source and spirituality. I mean, heck man, like that, that's a massive win. Yeah. I mean, I started my career trying to, and I kind of feel like it's gone like the beginning of my journey was building bridges, right? Trying to show people that we can build bridges to the spirit world. Then there was the crossing over era where I was actually showing people the crossing over. And then I knew I needed to leave television because I kind of had that been there, done that kind of vibe.

49:34And I knew that what I needed to do next, television was never going to let me do. And that was to empower people deeper and provide them with the tools that I use in my own lives, right? So that's when I launched Evolve, right? So Evolve Plus TV was the place where I brought all of these things together so that when I recognize that somebody needs not me, but a grief specialist, I've got those people. So whether people are interested in like mindfulness or astrology or any of the things that would be the circuit that you would run in your spiritual gym doing your spiritual fitness, I think it's important for people to be a seeker and explore so that they can discover new alternatives to put into action.

50:15That's amazing. So you actually help people turn that part on. I try to help people to recognize not to go be psychic, but to look at life through like an energetic lens. And ultimately, like what's the lesson? And all through Chasing Evil, you'll see that with me and Bob. And I love the trajectory that early Bob has to now Bob, right? To see the journey of the language even that Bob would use, right? Like even like today in the interview, Bob saying that the universe brought us together. Early Bob would not say that. I gathered that from the first 25, 50 pages. Yep. that's pretty awesome guys how i mean so you mentioned that there's a little bit of nervousness because now it's out you know how you know you mentioned also to me that someone from crossing over reach out to you and absolutely love the book you know bob what's your experience been like since it's been out so this is a new territory for me i i am a guy who always worked behind the scenes, you know, even though I'm a large guy, me doing what I'm doing now is new.

51:29And as you know, I started reading the book. It's very personally revealing too, right? And I am the opposite of that, right? I am the guy that I grew up, you know, a guy doesn't have feelings, a guy doesn't have emotions. You just tuck your stuff away and you put your head down and you move forward. And you don't talk about all this stuff. You just live your life and do your job and do your job. It's as simple as that. So for me, I feel like I am letting the world into my life and that's scary. It's intimidating. But I think hopefully, even if one person finds value in this, it's for a good cause.

52:08I hope that whatever I learned in here, whatever mistakes I made, somebody's going to say, hey, I get that. I'm that guy now. I can sympathize with Bob Hillen I need to learn from his mistakes, right? We do that with our kids. We all have to learn from our mistakes, but there are certain mistakes you don't want your kids to make. And you say, learn from me. But it is rather daunting. I am excited by the opportunity. I'm excited to see what comes from this. But this is opposite of everything I've done up until today. pretty darn cool man pretty darn cool you know it's uh i grew up kind of the same way yeah you know it was real men don't cry you know all these different types of things if you feel a certain way push it down but that does create a lot of anger as you grow older that creates a lot of gaps in who you're supposed to become because you're holding on to this emotion all this energy that's just holding you back from that next version of yourself.

53:12Yeah, I think that's spot on. For me, while I learned an awful lot from John, as far as his abilities and working his cases, I think in reflection, I learned a lot about myself in this process that I didn't even begin to understand back then. I thought I knew myself, you know, but, you know, hopefully with aging experience comes some wisdom. And I look back and I go, John, you really did teach me a lot. You really did. Well, I mean, I can go back to the Georgie story. Just even for that, like, and that was a big thing that your family didn't talk about that you were able to bring out. I mean, that's a part, even though you weren't around, it's a part of your history.

53:55It's part of your family history. And I would also like to think that it relieved a massive boulder from your mom's shoulders. Yeah, I think every family has those skeletons, right? And especially the older generation, you didn't talk about things. My family's great, you sweep things under the rug and when it gets too big, you get under the rug, right? That's how a lot of old families were, at least mine was. Get a bigger rug, man. Yeah, and that's not the way to live life. That's not how healing happens. That just creates the opposite effect and you got to sweep all that stuff out. You got to reset everything.

54:32you know guys i i just this is a different interview than anything i've ever done right and it's you know i want the i want the audience to really be on this journey with me um and know that this is something different because i take i don't take any pride in in in say and in keeping that in i want everybody to know it because you know this is such a an amazing topic there are so many things that happened within both of your lives and in this book that if the audience just gives it the chance to pick it up and read this darn thing, they could start to see a whole other side to life and dimensions and spirituality that could not just, even if it's not what you guys dealt with at that level, but gives them that hope to move forward another day and know that they have impact on their life and that there's good forces out there because we all know that you can't have good without the presence of evil but it just gives so much hope i think that's true you know um recognizing your own weaknesses becomes a strength right and those areas you need to improve john taught me that and i will tell you personally the best people i've ever met in my life have some of the most significant scars they've been through the hardest stuff right Those are the people, like my go-to people are the ones that have gone through the stuff and have come out on the other side and are better for it.

56:04And I think the book will reveal that about me. And I hope, I would love to know, John, what did you learn from me in all the years we've been together? That list is a little bit too long. perseverance, determination, specifics, details, not saying no to something when somebody in the face of adversity is saying you can't do that, finding a different way. It almost like was like striking chords that existed for me under the surface. And I kind of feel like amplified it. And almost every time you and I spoke about something that you were doing, because I would always sit back and just be like, this man's got tenacity.

56:42Like I can't even imagine. It's interesting because the show is called The Determined Society. No. You know, in this whole story, your whole friendship is literally the actual definition of determination. I mean, it's incredible. I really appreciate you guys. And I thank you guys so much for coming on. I cannot wait to get this thing out for you guys and, you know, get this out to the public so people can listen and hopefully have an open mind. um my dms are open if you want to come at me but it's okay you probably won't i don't get i don't get too much hate but uh now i'm talking to them but you know i just encourage people to really um come at this with an open mind you know go on the internet search the book you know read a sample copy i can guarantee you'll pick it up so again guys thank you so much for coming on um you guys are amazing people and it was just great to get to connect with you in this in this level so thanks thank you i appreciate it thank you thanks All right.

57:43For the audience, you heard it. Chasing evil by these amazing men, John Edward and Bob Hillen. Go pick it up, guys. Let me know what you think. Follow them. Follow John on Instagram. Bob, do you have, are you a social media guy? I am not by design. I didn't, I didn't take you for one. I didn't take you for one, but that's okay, guys. Again, guys, thank you so much for listening in until next time. Stay determined.

58:31We'll be right back.

58:42tea time you. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great.