Doug Bopst: Breaking Norms Through Transformation

26:26Can we do that? Cool. Then I master that from the feet or from your, uh, when, from your, without your knees. Cool. Then it was like, can you hold yourself up, you know, in a pushup position from your knees? Cool. Let's just go down and try to do a pushup. And so we worked our way up through that process of going from not being able to hold myself up from my knees to being able to do a set of 10 pushups by the time I left my jail sentence. And the same thing happened with running. Like I was fat and so deconditioned when I entered jail, I could barely walk them down the steps because I was also smoking cigarettes.

27:00And in jail, there's no like treadmills, at least where I was, no treadmills, no ellipticals, there's no formal quote unquote gym, but we had a perimeter around the common area and we had a deck of cards. And so every time I would finish a lap, I would pass a card from my left hand to my right hand. So I could track the distance by that. And then so one thing leads to the next with that. And I went from barely being able to walk to being able to run a mile by the time my sentence was over. And all of that changed me. Why? It changed me because it taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable.

27:36I was so scared, dude. When I got to jail, I was a zombie. People called me a zombie. I was going through opiate detox. I was a nervous wreck, but it changed me. It got me comfortable embracing discomfort. It taught me how to manage my emotions effectively because there was times where I was anxious, I was stressed, I was sleepless, all the things, but I couldn't act out because I would have either gotten my butt kicked, sent to a different area that I didn't want to be, or gotten more time. It also taught me the importance of just showing up even when I didn't feel like it. There was times I didn't want to work out.

28:09There was times I didn't want to do the thing, but I had to because this guy held me accountable. And the other thing was, it really taught me that it's never too late to change your life. I wanted more for myself. I didn't have the blueprint on how to do it. And with him helping me and giving me these tools along the way, it really shaped my outlook on where I was headed to. And it got so, I guess, sunny for me towards the end of my sentence that I cried the day I left jail because this transformation had happened so intensely that I didn't know how I was going to survive without being behind bars, as crazy as that sounds.

28:51And he gave me a workout plan that's framed right here behind me on that shelf so I never forget where I came from. That's badass. Got out in the rest of this history, man. dude you know one thing that i want to highlight as listening to you anytime i have fucked up in my life right it doesn't have to be a massive you know uh jail sentence for anybody it could just be there's a moment where you just fuck up right when you see people doing things that aren't great decisions it all points back to one thing we're seeking comfort in that moment you know if you're an addict it's it's comforting to be high because that's how you're escaping, right?

29:33Because you're not taking any accountability. So my thing is like listening to this and for the audience guys, like really listen. And if you need to rewind back and listen to what he's saying is like, like the comfort is really what brought you there. And you had to get super comfortable with being uncomfortable. And it's something that this show in the conversations that we have here always land on is like, you want to, you, you want a hard life, you better choose the comfortable route. If you want an easy life and you want to be fruitful, then choose the hard path. Be uncomfortable. And the moment you make that switch mentally is the moment you take off.

30:12Because every single day, if I'm comfortable, bro, I freak the fuck out. Like, I don't like feeling comfortable, man. Like, so if I'm in the gym, I'll try something different. Oh, it's a leg day. Cool. I'm gonna try something different. I hate Bulgarian split squats, but you know what? I think they're the devil. But if I don't do them, I'm seeking comfort. Right. So I'll play games with myself. And then the next thing that I have to do, right. Maybe a hard conversation with a, with a colleague or my wife or my children. It's like, you're so conditioned to do the hard thing that you don't even think about it anymore.

30:48You just do what's right. And what makes it harder is that when you're in these intense moments, like you just want to feel like things are going to be okay now you may have seen the buzz but let me give you the inside scoop babe ruth barry bonds king griffey jr mark mcguire all the greats what they have in common they have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now and it brought me back to my childhood knowing that i can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope so if you're selling online or out of a storefront full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges.

31:23You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in. Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions and buy, and they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces.

31:59That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. Search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the app store. Download, and you can start selling right away. and when people use drugs in that moment it feels like things are going to be okay because you're checked out so you're not thinking about the stress you're not thinking about the relationship issues you're not thinking about what happened yesterday because you're numb and then you wake up the next day like crap that feeling's back so now i need more and more it's a tough it's a tough battle but you're right like we're so afraid of discomfort and without discomfort there would be no change right like if i if if i were doing the drugs and i was younger and life was good i probably wouldn't have changed my life i wouldn't have needed to uh and that's why you you see you see so many people that are uh like functioning addicts because i mean they can make a million dollars a year and drink a bottle of wine or night and And to be honest, there's a good chance they might not have the same problems that a lot of other people have because they're going to have financial stability.

33:12Maybe they can buy their way into certain relationships. Maybe they can buy things for their kids that buy them some time to take away from the pain where people are like, well, he's not that bad at home. He buys me a new car every year. He pays the bills or whatever. Because I think that's a thing that happens so much. And, um, it's like, what's the thing that there's a funny, a really funny, I think, I don't know if a comedian said this or not, but it's like, what's that? What's something that's really cool for rich people to do, but frowned upon for broke people to do is day drinking. You know, so true.

33:53Oh, and I don't think that either of it's okay. Like, I think if you have a problem and you're drinking during the day, you should definitely get help. But we look at people like on the side of the street who were drinking as problems, but then we don't address the same problem with people that, you know, do it in private. And again, I don't want to get into like the politics of it. I understand that people who are like out on the street, like a lot of them have mental health issues. And I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying if you look at like the action, the behavior, I think we tend to view things a little bit differently sometimes.

34:25Well, there's a double standard there for sure, right? I mean, certainly there is, man. And I mean, like it's irrefutable. I mean, you look at somebody that is poor, maybe even homeless, like, oh, you're drinking during the day. That's why. But if you're rich and you're a multimillionaire, it's like, well, you're clearly taking care of your shit. It's fine. You're a millionaire. It doesn't necessarily make it right, but people justify it because they look at that metric of income as the ultimate measurement. And really, even though that multimillionaire is functional in their career, making a ton of money, the alcohol may not be affecting that part of their life.

35:07But what about their children? What about their marriage? What about their friendships? Those parts of their lives can be completely blown up. And we don't know. So I just think that, hey, look, you want to go out there and day drink? You want to drink? I don't drink anymore, period. Not because I'm super against it or anything like that. It's just, I don't feel good on it. Like I, so what's the point, right? Like if I do it, right? I used to say, well, I only do it during college football season, right? Cause it's where I found my comfort on game days, right? I would get drunk. I would escape from the week.

35:40I'm stressed out. And I was like, wait a second. No, no, no. We're not doing that any longer. It was uncomfortable for me to make that switch, right? Because people judged me and they still do, you know, Oh, where's the fun, Sean? I'm like, I'm a blast. Like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling great, dude. Like I can have an intelligible conversation with you today and not forget what the fuck we talked about yesterday, you know? And then I can wake up and the most important, and the best part is, Doug, I can wake up and actually be a present father. Well, you bring up a really good point because you asked me earlier, is the identity part, is that what makes or breaks people from surviving addiction and changing their life?

36:26I would say a close number two or even up there with that is confidence. And the reason I say that is not because you have to feel like you're on top of the world all the time. But if you're not a confident person, you will not believe in your ability to change your life. If you're not a confident person, you're going to get the stuff like people say to you like, oh my God, don't be a wuss. Come on, where's the fun, Sean? And you're not going to stand up for yourself when you're going to drink and you're going to continue to destroy your life. If you're not confident, your energy is just going to be off-putting for people.

37:01So I think you have to go through it to build that confidence. I think part of building confidence is surviving those storms. People think that building immense amounts of confidence comes from getting from zero to 100. It comes from zero to like three in my opinion. It's like there's initial steps of surviving the suck and believing you that you can get through difficult moments in your life. Because that's what shapes you. is can I survive hard times? Can I conquer things that scare me? And can I like commit to doing things I want to do when it doesn't make sense to like, it's easy for you to go to the gym now.

37:43And it's easy for you to show up and podcast with me when you've been doing it for so long. What's tough is like when you weren't in shape and then, and then figuring out a way to find the motivation to go to the gym or to podcast when you had like, you know, just your parents and your wife listening. You know what I mean? It's like those are the moments that when you show up and you still continue to do it, that's what builds confidence because you're creating some level of validation within yourself. This is where I want the audience to really latch on, right? We're talking about building confidence.

38:19And that recipe looks different for every individual. But I think there's only one real viable way to build confidence. do the hard shit do the stuff that you said you were going to do you know even when the emotion of it wears off you say you're gonna wake up at six and get to the gym then wake up in six and get to the gym because if you do that it's a vote for you it is a vote for that person that gets up and says i'm going to do something then they go freaking do it too many people are looking at it this way though i can have confidence if i just get in great shape and they make it about the vanity and the aesthetic portion of that confidence building.

39:00And that never sticks. It never sticks, man. It has to be you building the confidence by doing the damn work and staying in a fricking standard. And to me, that will give you an unbreakable amount of confidence. And when my wife started noticing the shift in me because of the nutrition, because of the lifting and, you know, aesthetically what I look like, it's a lot different. You know, she said like that you used to have this thing and she always told me this, you will have this, everybody has confidence, like this confidence of reservoir. You have none in the reservoir, like none. And it could be from your childhood, your upbringing, whatever it was.

39:46But for me, once I started building me from the inside out and changing that, that reservoir filled up. So you could literally two years ago tell me that my show is the worst show ever and you'd never come on my show. And that would hurt me. Now it's like, okay, dude, whatever the fuck you say. Like, that's fine. That's your opinion. But it's not an arrogant thing is I built confidence up through doing the hard things and sticking with everything I said I was going to do that built a confidence level to me that it just it can't be broken unless I break it myself. by not doing the things I said I was going to do.

40:26I'm really glad that you brought up this point because I remember when I was getting into shape, I was like, when I get this, my problems will go away. And for me, that was like, I want six pack abs. I want 5 % body fat. I want veins going through my arms. And I got that stuff. And I also got a lot of attention from women. I got everything that I thought I wanted. But because I didn't build that myself, because that the well was being filled from all that other stuff and not for myself, it didn't feel right. Like it reinforced that cognitive dissonance I referred to earlier where I didn't feel validated properly.

41:04And, you know, I could say the same thing about like what I do now in the content creation space. Like, you know, I remember I was like, man, I can't wait to like get the silver plaque from YouTube for many a hundred thousand subscribers. I'm going to be so happy. And then you get it. It's like, yeah, I mean, I love it. And props to YouTube. I love YouTube, but I remember getting it. I'm like, man, it doesn't feel as good. It doesn't feel as sweet as I thought it would. I still have to do the thing. I still have to show up. I still have to like create more stuff. And it got me to think, man, like that whole, I don't know who coined it, but that whole, like when I get there complex, like when I get this, I'll be happy.

41:41When I get this, I'll be happy. It just shows how true it can be. And if you're not careful, it'll really hold you back and it's not to say that you can't set goals and you can't be proud of you know doing the stuff that we do it's more like where is that leading you is it leading you to pursue more just for the sake of pursuing more or is it like leading you to do things because you actually in your heart want to do them and it's like you know me getting that plaque it was great because you know i had it just shown how hard i've worked but if i if i wasn't careful I could have been like, oh my God, like I'm the man.

42:14This is the end all be all for why I do what I do is these trophies. Right. Um, and so that's something that I, I wouldn't say I struggle with it. Like it limits me, but I think about it a lot. I think, cause especially in our world where our level of success from the outside, it's people see it. We have a scorecard, right? Like people can see how many followers you have, how many followers I have, how many subscribers I have, you have reviews, comments, people see that. If you're an accountant, if you're like a financial planner, I mean, unless you really piss someone off and you get a really bad Google review or something, people aren't seeing the scorecard.

42:51So if you're not careful, it can be a trap that you fall into, which I'm really, this is why I'm really thankful that I've done a lot of work on myself before getting into this space. Because otherwise, I mean, if I had been the Doug of the younger me, I'd be a fricking nightmare. I dude, I know the Sean back in the day, I don't, I didn't like him. You know, he doesn't need to come out and play like ever, like ever. He needs to stay in the past. He can stay where he's at. Really, really funny thing. Like, dude, how did you get your plaque? I never got one. Really? Did you like fill out the form?

43:23What form? I think they send you a, I forget how it went down, but they sent me like a thing, like an email. I think that was a congratulations. I think, or maybe you, I forget if I had to submit something, but then like they validate like the channel and everything. And then yeah, I got the plaque, like not too long after that. I'm going to have to figure that out. That'd be a cool thing to have. Yeah, definitely look into that. I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I know, but I do know for me, I was like, I can't wait to get a hundred thousand subscribers. And then it was like, now I can't wait to get 150.

43:57And then you have to say to yourself, like, what's the bigger picture here? because if you're just chasing numbers eventually that that gets old so i had to be like all right i want to create like it's such a dangerous game bro like and like dude like what you're saying right here like i'm loving this portion of the conversation because i'm the same way i remember sitting there waiting for us to hit a million listens in a year and in 2024 we finally did it We hit it in November. Okay. And I thought it was going to be this massive moment where everybody just bowed down. Dude, that ain't shit. Like that wasn't, I look back now, I'm like, that wasn't anything.

44:43And once I got there, I had like two days of like, just in the shit, like just destroyed. destroyed. Like what now? Oh my God, I feel so empty. And so for the audience is I want you to picture this. If you sit there and say, and you're chasing something, you're chasing a number for us, you know, in the content creation and the artwork of actually having a show and crafting meaningful conversations, like our scorecards wide open for everybody. Like if you have the software, you can look, right? You can literally find everything you need to know about me, about Doug and everything that we do. It's on display.

45:22But the win is not in the attainment of that number. It is who you become in the process of it, right? Everybody talks about it's become cliche, but it's fucking true. It's like literally who you are becoming while you're chasing that number. That's the gift. Kobe Bryant talked about it all the time. Those moments in the buildup, that is the moment the the attainment's the attainment so now we fast forward right and it's like we did what we were doing in a year in a month now and now i'm like i need to get to four million a month i need to get to five million a month you're always going to be searching for that next level and it's okay if you are becoming something so strong and focusing on that portion of it, then I think you can't afford to be a little bit, okay, what's next.

46:14But if you let it control you, it can take away every ounce of your freaking joy. Yeah. And one of the things that I think people assume, at least I thought that when I get like this amount of subscribers or views or whatever, that I'll be able to get like all the A-list guests, everybody wants on their show. Right. And like the issue is everybody wants them. And, and, and frankly, they don't need your channel. They don't need the exposure. They have their own. And so it becomes this kind of crazy game, I guess, in our space that if you're not careful, you end up spending so much time and effort to lock in a huge guest.

46:56And then either that guest isn't aligned with your audience or maybe they aren't as good as you thought they were or whatever. And then it takes away from your ability to hit like the consistent singles and doubles, which is what I try to do with my show is like, Hey, like, is it cool to get, is it amazing to get somebody like Patrick, but David, of course, amazing guest, awesome combo, like one of the best episodes I've ever done, but those don't always happen. You know? And if I were to like chase that every single time, I would miss out on these opportunities of just hitting singles and doubles, like every episode, like, all right, like good, solid guests for the show.

47:30Just keep it in bounds. You know what I mean? Like, instead of like grand slam after grand slam, I mean, the reason a grand slam is so impressive is because it's very rare that it happens, right? If it happened all the time, people wouldn't, it wouldn't be as interesting. You know, it's so funny because it's like, I think in terms of the same, same as you, I was talking to production earlier and we're going through a bunch of different things that, you know, we had, I had coming and, you know, you know, potential travel for, for guests and things of that nature, some home runs, right? And I started thinking about the manufacturing runs because I'm a baseball guy, right?

48:08I'm going to walk, bun somebody over, I'm going to drive them in. And then we're going to get a base hit and we're going to hit and run. And so I just feel like if every single time you record, if you're staying, like you said, inbounds with your show on brand and you're having meaningful conversation. You can take what you think is a single and that could be a marquee interview. Now, you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire, all the greats. What do they have in common? They have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now.

48:44And it brought me back to my childhood. Knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope. So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges. You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in. Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions and buy, and they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies, sellers are building real thriving businesses.

49:21Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. Search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store, download, and you can start selling right away. because you don't know the energy and the conversation that's going to come out of that guest with you. I have been so surprised at certain guests that I've had on that were local people. I'm like, all right, cool. I'll do it. And it turns out to be a banger episode because they were so open and it was on brand.

50:05And then people were inspired by it because they could relate to them. So sometimes the singles or the hit by pitch turn into a home run. Again, you just don't know. So you just have to stay in line and on brand and execute everything you can because that's the only thing you can control, dude. Yeah, it is. And you just never know. It's like, you know, you see a lot of people that will have these huge names on. They have massive followings. And I guess the theory is, which logically it makes sense, but once you've been in the game long enough, you know it doesn't, is that this person has 50 million followers on social media.

50:42I'm just throwing that number out as an arbiter, as an easy number. That means that 50 million people are going to listen to my podcast if I have that person on. That's funny. That's funny. And it doesn't work that way. And on top of that, odds are if you host a show like mine and yours, where you're trying to reach people that are on the come up or people that are trying to inspire themselves and that are normal average people, so to speak, somebody who's worth$50 million, they're not going to relate to as much as somebody like listening to you or other people that are more in their sphere. Like, it's like, it's, it's harder to be like, it's harder to relate, to relate to somebody's problems like that because like, Oh, they got$50 million.

51:25They got all these files. They can just buy their way out of anything. Like I can't, you know, I'm kind of screwed right now. So how does that relate to me? You're right though. You're right. Because we went on a long run where we were having celebrity after celebrity, after celebrity, you know, bestselling author after best, I mean, New York Times bestselling authors, right? And I thought it was cool, but then I saw like a disconnect. You know, there was the audience going, what happened to the stories? And it turned into a PR tour instead of giving value to the audience. So quickly shifted on a dime, 180.

51:57I go, I'm not doing this shit anymore because I was starting to feel disconnected. And if I feel disconnected, my audience is going to sleep, right? So we, we changed it. And to your point, though, the feedback was, we'd love a big guest because we'd love to see you do well. We love seeing you in rooms with Jay Leno and William H. Macy and those big names. But that's not necessarily what gets a platform to go. What gets a platform to go is the ethos around it, is the very, very foundation of what you are trying to help people with, what you're trying to exude. and that is a fine line for people like us to kind of toe and dance on it's like all right is this going to do well and a lot of times i have to sit there and i don't know what your process is when i'm pitched a guest right or someone you know slides into my dms like hey i'd love to be on your show like it happens a lot right and those people typically honestly don't get on because there's a process you know you either get introduced to me from a good friend like kwame right or you know a PR or somebody else's PR, or I'm like very interested in what you're doing because I can see it.

53:08Right. But I just think it's super important when you're vetting these guests out in these conversations is like, what's the message? I don't care if they have 200 followers. I don't care if they've got 200 million. What's the story? What can my audience get out of it? can my audience relate and if they can relate i do it because it's my job to be the gatekeeper for them i got to bring them good yeah i have a similar i have a similar process i mean i get hit up a lot too and i get tons of pitches that i think most of them at this point are ai like an ai probably on email yeah yeah yeah or these mass emails that's like i really enter enter enjoyed your episode with so-and-so and they pitched me a guest that has nothing to do with that topic you know what i mean and um and so reminds me of my guest that i want to pitch you but you're right it's more it's either through like friends it's through relationships with pr people i've built in the past it's also like what are the what are the core themes of my show that i want to hit on Like, you know, it's mental health, addiction, it's wellness, it's mindset.

54:25And where can I find the people that fit into that and topics that interest me? And it's been, it's evolved over the, there was a point where I would be like, all right, I'll have that person on. They have a cool story or, but then there was times where I'm like, man, like I got to be a hundred percent dialed, like you said, into the conversation. or I'm like, I'm like tapped out because I get kind of bored, you know, if I'm not interested in the conversation. But, you know, you look at somebody like Andrew Huberman, who I've known for a long time before he had the podcasting, he's got an amazing show and content.

54:59He has on like scientists that have zero platform a lot of times, you know what I mean? And the episodes do well. And it's because he's a really effective communicator. He stays on brand with what he says he's going to talk about. And he's incredibly smart and engaging in these conversations. And that's, that's a take home message for me because, you know, I remember I had coffee with him a few years ago and we were just talking shop and he's like, he said to me, he's like, Hey man, like, just remember, it's going to be easy to chase trends and to try to hit the home run, but just like be consistent, be consistent.

55:30And it was at a time where I needed to hear that message. Cause I, you know, I, it's easy to like get caught up in what's popping off or people that you want to have on that are famous and and stuff but you're right like if you don't make the call for yourself you're kind of you're screwed long term because then the audience will disengage just great advice from huberman man because that right there is a real dude right because to your point and to his point like chasing trends bro people chase that shit in our industry all the time. I mean, hell, Candace Owen's still going on one topic, right?

56:10I mean, like, look, man, it's a trend. It's something that's not going to die down for a very long time because people want answers. They're not going to get answers. And she's just going to keep cashing in those analytics, dude. But she jumped on a trend. I refuse to do that. You know, I want to have, like you were saying, and like Andrew was saying, have meaningful conversations your audience is coming to you for a reason give them what they want you know and for andrew i mean his audience wants information you know they they want to learn so having a scientist on is going to make much more sense for him than maybe somebody massively massively famous because the audience isn't going to connect with it because they're not going to the value it's unrelatable yeah but i mean these these shows like we do we really i think admire early or inspire us or like oh my god their their show is awesome we like them i think because they're authentic and because they stay true to their own their own selves their brand and you know not chasing after trends you know i remember when you know the politics became um like the thing to chase after in the self-help space like oh my god now i got to talk about politics because that's what the algorithm wants like i refused you know i said i'm not gonna do it i know i'll probably make i would probably make more money i would get more reach on my business i'll probably suffer if i don't but it's just not what i want to do i'm yeah you gotta stay in line man you know and i know nothing about it yeah yeah i mean seriously me neither it's like What am I going to talk about?

57:49It's just going to be me regurgitating some other person's information or learning about it on a fly. And that's not authentic, man. You can't create great content that way. You need to fully be behind it. Or honestly, you said, you'll tune out. You'll be gone. I think we've all had those interviews, right? We're sitting there and it's like we're almost at an hour right now and it feels like five minutes. we've all been on a conversation that's been 50 minutes long and it feels like a fucking eternity those those are moments where you have to evaluate did i do the right thing or was it just the energy from the guests right like sometimes it just doesn't work man it just it just doesn't you know let's fast forward a little bit because we're coming down to towards the back part of the show and i want you to you know go back to the day you know you said you cried when you got out you know because that's where you built yourself you had this unshakable amount of determination discipline and accountability right but now we fast forward and now you're this award-winning certified trainer you're a three-time author you have a podcast you work with people and building their confidence and their bodies up walk the audience through what you are doing now so it's been a long journey you know i was never the confident person i am now i was never a speaker like this outgoing and all this was built through adversity and i share that because i think everybody assumes or they think i think they know that this isn't true that it's just like you go from like zero to 100 super quick it's like no you go from zero to one from one to 1.2 to 1.3 maybe you jump to 1.7 and then like over time you're like back down to 4.5.

59:38Exactly. And so when I got out of jail, I was still like a mess. Even though I had my life changed, I had to work on myself and dealing with cravings. And getting into fitness really helped change my life and change my mindset. But then when I became a trainer, because I wanted to help other people use the gift of fitness, that gave me an easy platform to share my story. and it took a while because at first I was so ashamed of that. You know, I was like, oh my God, are these people who are paying me a lot of money? Are they going to still trust me if I'm a felon? If I was in jail, do they think I'm going to steal from them?

1:00:16You know, like stigma exists with people that were incarcerated. It's just a real thing, right? And so I hid it for a while. I never lied, but I kind of just danced around the question when people would ask me. But anyway, one day one of my clients asked me, so what happened? Like, can you just tell me? and I'd said, I'd shared my story, like, you know, the highlight reel. And she's like, Oh my God, like I thought the world of you already. And now I really think the world of you. Congrats. I was like, man, like, that's cool. Like they're not going to judge me. And so I really started to think about, I started to think about this idea that if the people, the people that are going to judge you for something that happened and that you've already worked through, that they're not meant to be in your life and you shouldn't listen to them.

1:00:55I mean, if you're still like doing the thing, I can understand people judging you because it's like a very easy to do so. Right. And then I realized that it's not that scary to just be honest. And so I started to share my story more with people. And then I did local media and we talked about fitness and then people were interested in my story and did a lot of local press. And then that led to like other national media or media opportunities from the Today Show and Men's Health. It didn't impact theory of Tom Bilyeu and Rich Roll's podcast. like all these cool things that have helped me build the credibility and the platform that I have today.

1:01:33And also it helped that I, you know, have stayed on the straightened arrow as far as my recovery. And the felony came off my record. I followed through with what I told the judge I would do. And in 2014, he took the felony conviction off my record and gave me that PBJ. And now my record is completely expunged. I mean, I still have the docs, the receipts to prove it in case anyone's like, you're lying. You didn't go to jail. Like I have the receipts to prove that I did actually, I was actually sentenced to jail. And, and so all of that, being a trainer, speaking, like starting with local media and then moving on to national media and building relationships, like help prepare me for the podcast to like get on shows and see how they interview.

1:02:12you. I'm like, Oh, I like that. What didn't I like? What man, that guy does a lot of research and it made me feel special. Like that kind of stuff to, to where I, you know, I have the show now that's called the adversity advantage where, you know, I love having interesting conversations and helping people through hard times. Um, being a trainer is, is still, it's still part of my business. It's not as big as it used to be because the show has grown so much and I've evolved into doing other things. But my big passion, like right now, if you're like, Hey, like, what is it that you want to be doing and like doing, it's helping young men.

1:02:42There's a lot, there's a young men crisis that exists right now. You have a lot of young men that are lonely. They don't have girlfriends or addicted to weed, porn, vaping, like everything, and they feel lost. And so, you know, I'm trying to kind of step into that, um, space, you know, delicately, because I know that sometimes you get looped into the manosphere and everything else, which I don't want to be I don't want to be part of that. Um, no, but I think, you know, I think I have some cool things to say and I've mentored a lot of young men over the years and I understand what their struggles are.

1:03:17So what I'm sharing here with you isn't like me regurgitating headlines. It's like, no, I've worked with a lot of guys that have never had girlfriends or that like are afraid to ask a girl out or vape all the time and smoke a bunch of weed and they have mental health issues because of all that. And, um, and so it's really trying to, to tap into that as the next phase of my purpose in life is, is trying to fill that void for them. You know, what's crazy is like, I'm listening to your story, right? And it's so easy from the outside looking in like, wow, that day, a Cinco de Mayo, 20, 20, 20, 2008, that's the moment your life started.

1:03:57Yeah. Like literally the build from that point on, it was like, the Lord said, Hey dude, you're not getting it. I'm gonna hit you with this. You're going to go rehabilitate. You're going to become stronger and you're going to lead and help people. Did you ever think in a million years on that day that it would turn into something like this? Nah, man, no way. Like I went to so many funerals as a kid for friends of mine and not just people that like, Oh my God, like we were on like a sports team like five years, like people like that I saw the night before dead and having to go to funerals when you're that age, it, it does two things to you.

1:04:34One, it numbs you out to pain and that what death actually is because you mess up the circle of life. And then it also convinces you that maybe you're next. And because you convince yourself that maybe you're next, maybe you do things that just sabotage that for yourself. And the other thing that I will say is when I was in jail and when I was detoxing from opiates, you're going to probably want to clip this. When I was detoxing from opiates, there was a lot of horrible symptoms that I went through. The vomiting, the bowel movements, the anxiety, the stress. But the thing that was hardest to deal with that now is the biggest blessing was this feeling of crawling out of my own skin, where it felt like an old version of me was leaving.

1:05:26And as I look back now, years later, I can confidently say that I believe it was the old version of me leaving so that the new me could become born and healed was that symptom. And for anyone who's gone through detox, that feeling where you feel like your body is trying to leave itself, but it can't because that would be kind of trippy it's weird and you're like oh my gosh like i'm so restless and it just feels like my um like my i know you're a big theragun guy like it just feels like the that your legs are like a theragun and it's on all the time you know what i mean yeah like a low level vibration oh man that's intense dude yeah that's intense because i don't have a frame of reference i don't know you know what i mean like like i love hearing these stories because Because it's funny because I'm 47, dude.

1:06:16I got a lot of aches and pains, bro. I'm always throwing that Theragun on my ass, my elbows, my neck, and it'll rattle you, man. It's strong. And so when you made that reference between like, hey, when you're going through detox and you're vibrating and you're wanting to rush out of your skin, it's a lot like having the Theragun on you. Like I can imagine, you know, that coupled with emotion of knowing what you're actually going through is super hard to handle. Right. I mean, that that to me sounds like the ultimate discomfort. Dude, it was the worst. I mean, those first few weeks in jail. I would never wish on anyone just because of all the emotional pain that I had to like unravel through that process.

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1:08:19Did you ever ask yourself when you're in jail detoxing, I got arrested. I got sentenced and I waited until I was about to go in to stop using opiates. Did I ever ask myself why I did that? Like, what am I doing? Like now I'm detoxing in prison here. Like this is crazy, you know? Well, I kind of fooled myself because I had gotten a prescription of Suboxone, which I, You can only get prescribed if you fail a drug test for opiates. And suboxone is like a modern day methadone where it helps you detox, helps you with cravings and stuff like that. So I snorted a bunch of Oxycontin before I went into jail thinking, I'll be good tomorrow.

1:09:07I can take the suboxone, help me through the detox. But obviously I wasn't thinking clearly because it's a type of a narcotic that even though it's prescribed to me, I can't just take it in jail. So I was able to like take it with me or whatever when I left. But yeah, I mean, I had this awake, this, this moment where you, you just start to cry and you're, you lose it emotionally. Cause you're like, why did I, why did I get here? Like how, how does the kid that, you know, just wanted to fit in, have the kid who just wanted to be loved or good at sports or fill in the blank of all the stuff I wanted that I didn't have when I was younger.

1:09:43How did he end up behind bars? And not just behind bars, but now I'm a convicted felon and I'm 21 years old. And the path forward from that was so challenging because I didn't have any establishment in my life. I had 21 jobs by the time I was 21. I kid you not. I worked at every place imaginable where I live. damaged relationships, fat, 40 % body fat, you know, stuff with my family, mental health issues. And now on top of that, I'm in jail for a felon. So the weight that was on my back to be able to like walk from that moment was suffocating. It was suffocating. You know, I think I saw a clip of yours where you talked about like the backpack or something like the emotion with like, yeah.

1:10:34And it's so true. Like that's, I felt like I was carrying like a 300 ,000 pound backpack at all times because of all of that weight. And what helped it get lighter was every time I did another pushup, it was like confidence boost. Some of the weight came off. Every time I talked to myself in a different way, every time I showed up for myself or didn't let certain things get to me, that weight started to feel lighter. But I mean, that backpack still isn't fully empty. I'd be lying. I think people were like, oh my God, I never struggle with anything. I typically don't spend time with them because there's a lack of awareness and sorry either yeah not my kind of person yeah and obviously the backpack is way lighter than it used to be and it doesn't like weigh me down or whatever but it took me a long time for that weight to come out because i had all this these other problems that went away because fitness was is a great tool and and i think that if you're not careful it can be the only tool you use.

1:11:32And then vanity creeps in and then you're like, oh my God, like I gained a pound. So maybe I'm a loser. And then if you're not careful, you're kind of in the same trap you were before. Yeah. Except the opposite, right? Now you have this weird perfection, this complex where you think you have to look a certain way. You know, I think the thing about fitness, man, you know, it changes lives. It changes mindsets. It changes discipline. You know, it changed your life, I really wish more people would get out of their own way. And this is kind of the plea to the audience now is if you're sitting there and, and, and, you know, you need to move your body and you have been so confused because of all the information coming at you on Instagram or the internet, just walk, just, just go for a damn walk and then do it again tomorrow.

1:12:22And then as you build your resilience and exercising, add more things, you know, go to the gym and lift two days a week. There's a lot of people, they go in there, you know, Doug, they're like, okay, I got to go five days a week. And they've, they spent zero days a week in there in the last five years. Well, that's going to burn out pretty quickly. But the thing that I love fitness so much is not because of the way I, way I feel physically or starting to look physically. is because how it changed my life, how it changed my business, how it changed my show, how it changed how I perceive myself, how it changed how people perceive me.

1:12:59Like it's not just a vanity or an aesthetic play. It is full on development. It is hard. Well, a hundred percent. And I'm going to go to a place where I think you'll appreciate one is with the fitness aspect, it's like, there's all this content and I'm, you know, I'm guilty of putting out content around this. So, um, I am a little bit of like, how do you transform your body in a certain amount of time? Or how do you like master the best level of fitness possible? But I will say there's a lot of content within that content or outside of it that shows you the simple steps on how to go from that zero to five in the fitness space.

1:13:37It's not, you know, couch to 5k it's couch to like, put your shoes on. Then from your shoes on, you're going outside and you're walking for five minutes. You're like, oh, okay, cool. This feels good. Let's do another minute. And then a few weeks later, you're now walking 10 minutes a day. But you see this in other areas of life. I'm sure, like yourself, I get asked a bunch, hey, man, I'm starting a podcast. What is your advice? What kind of mic should I get? What kind of cameras? I'm like, bro, why don't you just start with recording an episode? Just start with recording an episode. And people are like, oh my God, well, what am I?

1:14:09Dude, like I'm telling you, like you're going to waste money. And I say that because obviously unless you're coming into it with a lot of capital and a huge platform already, which 99 % of the people who do it, I mean, don't come into it like that. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. It's not just your passion project, especially if you're going to dump a bunch of money into it that you don't necessarily have upfront. There's going to reach a point where you're like, oh, this is a lot of work. and so it's easier to persevere and get through it when you're like already kind of mastering the art and the conversation you don't have the best camera you don't have the best you know setup necessarily but you have the consistency of like starting from zero you know what i mean like and i think that that i don't know about you but i mean when people ask me like oh my god like should i get this camera and i'm like dude like i don't even have a camera like that i've been podcasting for six years like why would you get a camera like that you know this is an interesting conversation because like, I, I want to be, I want to be, I want to be gentle here, but at the same time, it happens too much.

1:15:15It, you know, it's people see you doing your thing and then they want to reach out and say, and you don't even know them. Right. And it's like, Hey, can you help me launch my show. Yes, but like most of them want you just to do it. And like literally they don't, they're not going to pay you to do it. It's a service like launching a podcast to your point, dude, it is the most down and dirty and gritty fricking thing I've ever done, man. And I've done some cool things, but you know, when people come up to me and they overcomplicate these level five problems what camera what microphone i go i don't know i go i started my show from an iphone talking like this and from in my fucking vehicle and i didn't ask anybody for their advice that's the difference it's so true dude that's the difference we i forget the average but so many podcasts end up quitting after um i don't know how many episodes and because they just like they realize how tough it is or they realize like oh my god like i have seven downloads or whatever an episode and they're like oh my god how do i like how do i move forward and that's why i think it's important that if you're gonna do it invest the least amount of capital that you possibly can so you don't feel terrible if your show only gets 10 downloads because there's a good chance unless you already have an existing audience or you have the capital to spend on like marketing or running ads or whatever, like it's not going to, it's not going to be what you think it's going to be.

1:16:50And especially now there's so much competition out there. You know, I would never want to steer anyone away from following their dreams because that's just not, that's not healthy. That being said, I'm a realist and it's very tough out there. There's a lot of competition. It's a lot harder to launch a show now than it was 10 years ago because podcasting and YouTube has become the media. It's become where news channels, news anchors, they report the news, everything gets clipped up. And that is now on YouTube, which used to be, you know, kind of a different thing years ago, which props to YouTube for, you know, owning that, owning that real estate.

1:17:29but so you know you want to get into it for the right reasons and just being consistent it's relatable for anything in life everyone's like oh my god i want to get married like okay like why don't you work like start on like working on yourself and like becoming the person that someone would want to want to marry why don't you like start with like not going out and partying on the weekends and just going and having coffee and like you know meeting like real people i don't I'm going to go on and on with these. It's a, it's a passion of mine like you, because I see it so much and I understand it.

1:18:00Cause I was that guy. I was the guy that was like, oh my gosh, like once I get into fitness, I want to get these six pack abs and we'll do all this stuff. And then I'm going to feel amazing. Or once I start a podcast, I'm going to blah, blah, blah. And then you realize like, oh man, this is work. It's tough. I love doing it, but it's, it's work. Like it's when you travel for the show, it's like, people don't realize how expensive it is to film. Like I was talking to my wife. She's like, you know, why don't you do as many in-person interviews? And I was like, well, if I were to fly somewhere, if I were to fly to LA and I were to bank like 10 podcast interviews, flight to LA is like, you know, five to$700 round trip, depending on when I do it.

1:18:39Hotel for, you know, three or four days is going to cost me another thousand,$2 ,000. Running out of studio, it's a few hundred dollars per hour. then you got to get it edited so all in you're like looking at i don't know like i like five to seven grand just for that right and making that back in our industry takes some time you know it's not like you're just takes a long time dude yeah so that's that's my point you know yeah and those are all great points you know what i mean i think it all comes back to like you said it's with anything in life you're going to do something you better have a strong sense of purpose of why you're doing it.

1:19:16It can't be because like, man, I think I could do good here. I think like, I think I could go viral. That, that is a horrible idea. That is a horrible fucking idea to do anything in this industry. But if something is fulfilling for you and you know what direction you're going in, you know what value you want to bring somebody, just lean on that. And eventually, eventually it could be two, three, four years. Um, but people will start to listen, you know, and they'll see that you've been around for a long time and they'll go and they'll listen to your whole catalog and then they'll experience your growth real time.

1:19:53And then they will never leave you unless you really piss them off. But the bottom line is, is like purpose, lean on purpose. Don't, don't do it for the money. Well, and now this whole follow your passion thing. I think you have to be passionate about stuff, but I think it also comes in time. And I say this because I love sports. I suck at golf. I love basketball. I'm not going to play in the NBA. I'm passionate about basketball. I'm passionate about golf and football, even baseball, which is your world. I'm not playing professional sports. So it's like the same thing. It's like, if I were to try my entire life to play in the NBA, I would be broke and miserable because just because I was passionate about it doesn't mean that I would be good.

1:20:38I could work, I could put, but I can't jump. I can't like, I don't think I have like those skills, like the agility skills. I mean, could I work on it? Sure. But I think that would only get me to it so far. And I'm also five, eight, five, nine, you know, like being five, eight, five, nine, not being able to jump, you know, I'm in a lot of trouble. You're not spud web, right? You can't, you can't, you know, it's so funny, man. Like I, and I appreciate it, You know, because it's like you can have passion about something, but if it's not in the card, it's not your skill set. There's people, there's many people that are passionate about wanting to have a show.

1:21:12But when the camera flips on and the microphone's on, they wouldn't be able to do it. You know, because it's not, it's not as easy as it looks. It is very, very difficult. You know, you have to read energies. You have to understand where, if I ask this question, where can it take me down the road in five, 10 minutes? And you have to know it like that. You don't have time to think about it. You have to think about it while you're talking and having that conversation. It's a skill set, man. It's a craft. It is not easy. And you better be ready if you're getting into it. And if we had started this conversation, like, Doug, so happy to have you on.

1:21:46I'm like, oh, thanks, man. Thanks for having me. And I'm like, those who are watching, listening on audio, I'm like hunched over. I've got my chin on my fist. And I'm sure I've had conversations like this that don't end up getting released where it's like. Oh, dude, I've had some doozies, bro. oh or it's like oh and it's like super short it's like dude you could have just told me you want to do the show you know and you and you have to find a way to like navigate through that and you give it a few minutes maybe they're nervous maybe they're shy then you realize sometimes 20 minutes in you're like oh this person is not wanting to be here right now so you got to like know when the yeah thanks for coming on you know yeah you know it's like you know a lot of times all, you know, like it doesn't happen very often anymore, but it has.

1:22:28And, you know, it was back when I was recording at home and things like that. I'd be like, hold on a second. Are you good? Like, are you okay? Like, are you having a bad day? No, I'm great. Okay. Cause you're not really giving me much. Like, you know, if you want to reschedule and do this again, we can do that because right now this interview is not going to go well because you're not open. Um, but I mean, it's hard to do that too when you're when you're when you're growing and when you're starting because that takes a lot of confidence to be able to sit there and say hold on a second this interview isn't good this isn't in line with what i thought was going to happen are you okay um but we've all had those moments man it's uh you know but when you have someone who's excited about being on the show and you have somebody that's pouring into your audience that's all i care about i just want my audience to feel loved on i want them to feel like they got value out of the conversation.

1:23:21I want them to feel like now because of having Doug on the show, they can move forward in their life and maybe stop smoking weed, maybe stop day drinking, right? Maybe get out there and move their body a little bit. That's a win. It's a win, man. Yeah. I've had some doozies too, where I've had to like send their recording to like somebody's team, but Hey, you know, I don't think it's a good representation of their brand either. And they're like, Oh my God, like, yeah, please don't run this. Cause they obviously just weren't interested, weren't interested, day which you know and that's a lot of the stuff you don't see behind the scenes of podcasting you know it's just the reality of it but i think the art of podcasting is how do you get somebody to open up and it's also like hey did i ask the right questions could i've done this better and i and i also think that yeah providing value is so important like i don't like as much as i love to promote myself and i hope people you know come over to my audience just as well i i don't come into it being like oh my god i can't wait to like absorb sean's audience you know what i mean it's like how can i how can i provide value how can i how can i build a relationship and develop rapport like i love having conversations it keeps me honest keeps me on my toes and i think if we just did things more with intention and authenticity i think the world would be a better place yeah i think you're right you know a lot of people don't understand that the the absorption of somebody else's audience doesn't come from the show it comes from how are you going to interact with them afterwards and what do your people on social see you interacting with them about and they go who's doug oh shit oh that's yeah he was on sean's show i'm gonna go check his out now like which by the way if you're listening you go check a show out right they you know your your your links on everything like your website will be in the show notes people can go there and click i encourage you guys to do it i encourage you guys dude he's great guests.

1:25:15He's just an incredible person. So go and support him and listen to his damn show. Damn it. Listen to it. I just think that the absorption of multiple audiences comes from the interaction after. How much do you still dive in with this person? And then your audience sees it and you're like, okay, well, if Sean or Doug is still hanging out with this person, then I need to pay closer attention. And sometimes it's a, it's more of a long tail, right? It's not immediate. Yeah. And that's the problem with like the book launches. Sometimes you get someone, they're so like, I mean, I, I very rarely will be like, talk to the person about their book specifically.

1:25:56I let them plug it, you know, of course, but I'm like, Hey, you know, I want to talk to you about stuff that's within my audience. And, um, and just to make it so it's not like, Hey, you know, this person's only coming on the show to promote their book. Yeah. Those are hard, dude. I mean, we've been through it, man. We've been through it. But one more question for you, man, before we land the plane here. I would like to know what your official definition of determination is.

1:26:24Determination. So it's a very thick word, right? It's long and there's a lot of depth to it. To me, determination is making forward progress and effort even when it doesn't make sense to do so. Even when the validation isn't there, even when the money's not there, it's when you're determined, like you just keep going no matter what, when it all costs. Very good definition, man. It's not sexy. It's not loud. It's just sometimes it's putting on your damn shoes and walking out of the house and getting some fricking sunlight. That could be a determined day, depending on how you feel emotionally. So dude, thank you so much for coming on, brother.

1:27:06I love this conversation. Super excited to hear the feedback from the lovely audience listening right now. But dude, if there's anything else I could do for you, brother, you know, you just reach out and, you know, looking forward to continuing to support you and seeing all the cool things that you're doing, man. You're a good dude, man. I'm proud of you. Likewise, man. Looking forward to, you know, continuing to build our relationship too. And I appreciate the opportunity. This is an awesome combo. And thanks again. That was great, man. Thank you so much for the audience. Listen, go check out my boy, Doug.

1:27:39His handle will be in the show notes along with his website. You'll be able to go and find everything there is to know about his story, his books, how he's helping people, but really dive into him, man. Because I believe guys, if you're going to love my show and you've been listening for so long, then you might as well put his in the mix because he's talking about adversity and how it shapes people because it shaped his life. He took the most dark time in his life and turn it in to something that could build him. So again, guys, share this with somebody, you know, love and trust. And until next time, stay determined.