From Wall Street to Breaking Norms | Adversity & Rebuilding

30:01So that's something that I need to work on for sure. Brooke tells me this. Oh, Jacqueline tells me too. I mean, I hear it. And I just think that from their perspective, they have it right. And I will also say I think that we'll never know what goes on in a woman's mind and the stresses that they deal with and the fears that they have. Conversely, as a father, there's a lot of things that go on in our minds that they don't know. Am I doing enough? Am I providing enough? Do my children feel safe around me? Am I a good dad? Am I setting a good example? There's a lot of heaviness that I feel that men go through that causes us to pick up that device and see what more we can do so we can feel like we are doing everything we can for our loved ones.

30:52Sean, that's a great point. It's our obligation to provide for our family. At least that's what I believe in our household, the male and female roles. So I gladly take the stress and the pressure and the responsibility to provide for my family and make sure that they're comfortable. Um, Brooke and she understands and she respects that and she acknowledges it. You know, she tells me, thank you for all that you do for us. And, you know, I understand that if I'm up work, you know, up late working, you know, before I go to bed, um, she understands. So, you know, it's great to have a partner like that.

31:31And, you know, I'm sure you do too. Oh, absolutely, man. I love it. There's, there's, there's blackout times that my kids will come and say, okay, give me your devices. Right. And we started this from when school was in session. From like 4 to 7.30 or 8, my phone, I don't even know where my phone is. My daughter's put it in a box somewhere. And that's cool because I can have that time with them. And I think what children really crave is, like you said, the presence. It's not about the amount of time that you're spending. It's about how present are you when you are spending time with them? Are you just sitting there watching the clock tick, waiting for your next opportunity to pick up the phone?

32:10Those are hard moments, man. Those are really, really difficult. Yeah. You know, let's back up a little bit because we're always talking about how driven and how you love the game. You walk into Wall Street and you are working with the largest public offerings, you know, the market's ever seen. You're moving$8 billion. What does that look like on a day-to-day basis? It's a grind. Yeah, it's a grind. So investment banking is corporate America. And working in New York City is the training ground. I think it's one of the best training grounds in finance, Wall Street, New York, investment banking, hedge funds, private equity.

32:54Everyone's really competitive. You're working long hours. I've said it before, but on average. So our deal team at Bank of America and the Real Estate Gaming and Lodging Group was led by a person there, managing director who's still there, Jeff Horowitz. He's the chairman of the group. We were on the 25th floor at Bryant Park, one Bryant Park. But our average day, Sean, was 9 a.m. till 3 a.m. Wait, repeat that for the audience. Our average day, this was nearly every single day for a year, 9 a.m. till 3 a.m. Okay. So it's very intense. If you left in our group, if you were leaving at 3 a.m., half the group would still be there.

33:43And they would say it must be nice to work a half day. It must be nice to work a half day. So, you know, when you when when that's, you know, sort of the average we were working Saturdays, you're coming in, you know, maybe at lunchtime on Sunday. But, you know, if you have a book you have to do, you have a client, you know, we're working late, you know, definitely seeing the sun come up. You build this work ethic and you see the speed and the focus at an institutional level and the quality of the work product that you have to make, you know, was really great training. So, you know, I certainly wasn't the smartest in my group.

34:24There were people who were better bankers than myself who were there for many other years. I had the good fortune of working on certain deals, the MGM Growth Properties IPO. One of my first client was Digital Realty Trust, data center REIT. Data centers are huge now. Andy Power was our managing director when I was an intern. And then he went on to Digital Realty to become the CFO. And now he's the CEO running a multi-billion dollar company. So that experience in New York on Wall Street is invaluable. And I bring that with me to what I do now. So you see the speed. And really, you know, what I think also helps is that, you know, most people have never worked till 3 a.m.

35:13Like my. I've never worked till 3 a.m. Right. No. Right. No. So like my analyst, he stays late now. You know, he works, you know, maybe on average till 8 o 'clock. But I'm like, you know, have you even worked one night till 3 a.m.? No, never. So, you know, it's, look, and it's also that whole time you're not always working. There's, you know, times that, you know, there's some downtime. But when you have that as your baseline, okay, now long hours, they don't phase you. No. They don't phase you. You're not like, oh, it's 8 o 'clock, 7 o 'clock. Like, you know, that's lunchtime, you know, in banking.

35:53And so you have this other perspective on what it's like to really grind. I mean, that's a grind. How long were you working from like 9 a.m. to 3 a.m.? For a year. For a year. In that year, what did you notice about your mental health and even your physical health? Physical health went, yeah, definitely went down by the end. During this time, I did run a marathon. I ran the New York City Marathon in November 2025

36:27I think that was the beginning At the end You're tired You're eating Back then we had something called seamless So you get free meals You get free dinners When you work at the bank So definitely not the best health Definitely not sleeping well I was younger, I was in my late 20s So you can kind of manage it Now I need 8 hours of sleep Yeah. Do you get a full eight hours? I do. I do. Yeah. I go to bed early. Okay. I go to bed. Okay. Yeah. You know, the reason I asked that question, because, you know, you're in great shape, you know, you're working on your body and all that kind of stuff. I would imagine, you know, even like running the New York City Marathon, like, how do you have time to train for that?

37:09You have to make time for it. You have to make time for it. So, you know, I don't work out as much as I used to, but I used to go to the gym every day, like it was brushing my teeth. So that's something that I started when I was young, playing sports in high school. And I kind of weirdly had, from a very young age, had a desire to live a really long time.

37:38Even before it was like... Trendy. Trendy too. So I've taken care of my body. I started taking NAD 8 or 10 years ago And I've been taking that For daily So I did my biological age Brian Johnson Who's spending all this money 2 million dollars a year On health He has this speed of aging test So I did it when I was almost 40 And it said my biological age Was 24 So that was like a year and a half ago So yeah You know, with the advancements in AI right now, and you're in great shape. You look young. I don't know how old you are. I'm almost 48. Okay, yeah. You look like you're in your 30s. Keep him around.

38:26Keep this guy around. Yeah, you look like you're in it. I'm not just saying that, but you do look great. The goal now is to stay alive. is to stay alive because with AI, Google solving disease, solving anti-aging, really it's an equation. And I think they're going to crack it. So, you know, staying alive now, staying in the best health that you can, it's really important. We're seeing a move towards health and wellness, less drinking, less smoking, and really focused on taking care of our bodies. It's interesting you brought up Brian Johnson, because when I was getting ready for our conversation, I'm like, I read that.

39:07I'm like, hmm. You know, and I've interviewed Brian Johnson before. He's a great guy. Yeah. Very nice man. You know, all these years, putting all this work into everything he had. I mean, his house is a laboratory. And now I think he's dealing with some health issues that, you know, some autoimmune stuff. But at what point does it backfire? I think it's starting to backfire for him. I just read him say on X the other day that he's reduced his, by not going in the sun, he's reduced his skin age by nine years. Okay. I grew up in Southern California. You know, you look like you enjoy, you know, the beach.

39:47I just got back from vacation. Yeah. So, you know, so I like being tan, you know, there's vitamin D, it's healthy. And he said, I miss the sun. Fuck, man. Like, and I was looking at him He's pale, you know, his skin looks young But if you don't get, like, the sun You don't feel the rays, like, beaming into your You know, into your energy and your cells Like, you don't get to go on a vacation And, like, you're not putting on crazy sunscreen Like, there's still a quality of life And enjoy life Absolutely So, you know, it takes people who are you know perceived as a little crazy to move the needle and i think he's doing that sure um you know but maybe he finds that he's going too far and yeah i just i always like i look at him like dang like how much was too much right because now you're dealing with this and it's at what point is that actually living now yeah because a lot of people would say like well just enjoy your life you know have the cake and i and i agree with that i'm gonna eat some cake every now and again And if you put Oreos in my house, it's game fucking on.

40:56I got to keep them out of there. But to be that locked in for so long consistently and not doing anything, not even catching a ray of sun, bro, I just see that as potentially problematic and it could backfire. Now we're kind of seeing it, not judging him because I love that guy. He's a good dude, but it's sad to see. It's sad to see people talking about it and kind of chuckling at it because I don't think it's funny. No, yeah. All he was trying to do was do something for himself so he can be around for his son. Right. And then also show other people that you can be healthy. You don't have to do it at the extreme that I'm doing it, but you can dive into longevity.

41:40And I think all of us right now are doing that to some degree. Like I stopped drinking. It's not because I'm against it or I had a problem, but I just don't like it anymore. Yeah. So I don't touch it. Yeah. Whole vacation, I didn't have one sip of anything. I just don't care. And I think people are becoming so much more aware of the big C word now, cancer, and everything. And when you have children, you feel this responsibility and this anxiety of just, I got to be there for them. I've got to figure this thing out. And I think that's healthy. but do you live a little bit or do you, are you so locked in that you feel like I, there's nothing else?

42:22My wife and I, we love to travel. So, you know, when we, we, we do get a chance, we, you know, we like to explore new places. Last year for her birthday, I took her to Paris. So her birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks. And we're going to Turks and Caicos with, with her family, my family. We've, been together for three years going on three years now um but we talk at night and we're like how thankful are we having you know like we've lived a great life that's awesome um you know we talk you know we've been to costa rica we've we've been to we've been to belgium we went to london we went to france um so you know many places together mexico you know all these places that we want to take our son.

43:11So we do like to travel. To answer your question, unplugging. But right now it's grinding, but it's a love and it's a passion. Well, it seems like you have perspective too. You're very locked in on your health, but then you're also very keyed in on what's going to fulfill you and your wife and your son. Right. What's your favorite trip that you guys have been on? Earlier this month, my son was in need of some brand new nightstands for his room. The ones that he had, he's had since he was seven years old and he is almost 13. So we decided to go to Wayfair and got these amazing nightstands with automatic censored lights.

43:53And what was really cool was the gentleman came, took him out of the box, put him together and put him exactly where we needed to. So it was low drag for us, really professional, top notch service all the way around. So you can shop with Wayfair verified. Your shortcut to durable pieces hand vetted by product specialists using a 10 point quality inspection, testing things like quality of materials, functionality and features, and even how long it takes to build. Wayfair reward members get 5 % back every day, helping you get even more value from your Wayfair purchases. You can read more than 20 million verified five-star reviews from real shoppers, and you're able to see real customer photos and feedback before you buy.

44:38You can use the reviews to help you narrow your choices and shop with confidence. Join Wayfair Rewards today and get 5 % back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to Wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. Good question. We just talked about this. Hers is when we went to St. Bart's. We went to St. Bart's when we first met. My favorite trip, we went to went to jackson hall wyoming recently um costa rica was cool yeah costa rica we do oh this is this is my favorite trip sorry it was i was blanking um just this past march we went to peru oh really so we yeah we went to we went to machu picchu and we stayed at this amazing this amazing uh hotel and resort called uh the belmont rio sagrado and it's up in the mountains of Cusco.

45:47And there's a river, the sacred river running through it, wide open, green grass, trees, and they have alpacas on the property. That's cool. And Sean, like, they set it up, there was, it felt like there was almost no one there. We felt like we were the only ones there. They bring the alpacas, we're having lunch on the river, and the alpacas are there, like fluffy, we're picking them up. You know, they're eating grass, like, so that was really special. That was one of my favorite trips. Was your son there? He was not. He's not. It's so crazy to me because we took the family to my wife's home country last summer.

46:26We went to Quito, Ecuador. That was my favorite vacation because I got to see where my wife grew up. I got to see her childhood home. I got to see how she lived. I got to meet her family. My kids got to see a different culture. They went to a third world country. I just think there's so much You can teach a child and even learn about yourself going to different countries and traveling and just being well-traveled. Yeah, absolutely. So our son, Roman, he's 18 months. We took him to New York. Maybe he was six months. And we banned him from traveling after that for like six months. He lost his traveling privileges.

47:10Oh, no. Poor guy. God bless his heart, but he was like screaming and crying for 45 minutes straight, and people around us were like, oh, my God, these terrible parents. But we're taking him to Turks and Caicos, so we're really excited about that. You're giving him his passport back. He can fly now. He's not in the no-fly zone anymore. That's right. That's good, man. Well, you know, young kids, I remember, shoot, my oldest, anytime we would spend the night somewhere else, he wouldn't sleep, and he would just cry. I was like, dude, this is brutal. So I can feel that, man. But it'll get better. It'll get a lot better.

47:46Yeah, it has. Yeah. So back to the health thing. What does your actual regimen look like that has kept you so biologically young? I think it's a few things. And nothing that's like earth shattering. Movement. I've been going to the gym and lifting weights since I was in middle school. My uncle So I grew up in Orange County We were just talking about this There was a gym behind my house Called the Rossmoor Athletic Club And my uncle would get me An annual gym membership for my birthday So he got me into fitness I was one of the youngest guys to work out at the gym My mom knew that I loved it so much She would ground me from going to the gym If I got in trouble Playing sports Lifting weights So that's going to the gym.

48:39Not everyone has enjoyed that their whole lives. And, you know, there's more people getting into it now. So I started that early. Now, you know, getting enough sleep is super, super important to me and being able to recover. Taking supplements is, you know, I think good. You know, I think it's helping. You know, the tests show that. Fasting has helped. um you know staying active and i think one of the most important things to stay healthy and we kind of talked about this in the beginning is to keep a positive mind is to keep a positive mind so my wife jokes with me like she wants me to have gray hair yeah she and i'm like listen this is not happening she's like you've tricked your body into thinking that it's young yeah and you know part of my affirmations is that, you know, I'm in amazing health.

49:37I'm young, I'm vibrant, I'm full of energy. And I don't know if that actually has an effect, but I think having a positive mind, like, you know, rarely get sick. You know, I think that helps, like drinking a lot of water, our body is made up of, you know, nearly 80 % water. You know, just being generally positive, that might sound like kooky you know i think i think to to anybody that's hasn't really taken a hard dive face first into personal development may think that sounds a little kooky i think it makes perfect sense because the more you tell yourself something yeah this is who i am this is what i do i'm healthy i'm young i'm vibrant your actions start to back it up and that's where people get yeah completely confused because people will think that well just because you say your affirmations and and and i'm going to tell you something that's very unpopular in my household and i've caught a lot of heat from this for this for my wife she'll teach my daughters and my son and our son affirmations and she goes do the affirmations with them on the way to school i'm like no just what do you mean they're great i go affirmations are hot air if you don't have any work behind it to back it up yeah you know and so i think i got a young age yes teaching them that stuff is great absolutely but when people meet someone like you or me or hear us even talking about that if it's clipped or whatever oh that's not real it is real yeah you just have to now create the actions that back it up that turn you into that person to have that lasting effect on what you're talking about that's right you know it's a big difference yeah absolutely big difference you you have to you have to put in the work there's no avoiding work the work is the way yeah the pain the problems the challenge is the way there's no avoiding it it'd be nice if you could but would it be worth anything right Because I can think of many moments where it's just been painful in this process here with the show.

51:48I can't. I can just skip this freaking part, man. But then when I'm not allowed to skip that part and I work through it, I can look back maybe three to six months later and be like, oh, that's why. Because now I'm dealing with this. And now this is easy because I dealt with that. That's right. And it's a gift. Yeah. It truly is. Absolutely. You know? What is your thought on failure? I think everybody fails at, you know, all the time. So, you know, what are you failing at or what do you think you're not getting the results that you want? I think you only have these, you know, quote unquote failures if you don't get back up.

52:35So, you know, from the most successful people, everyone comes up short sometime. Everyone has losses. No one is winning 100 % of the time. It's just not happening. So, you know, Sean, we've talked about, you know, we've been talking about this, is shortcut, just, you know, when you don't get the result, that means you didn't do the right things. You weren't ready. You know, you have to learn. You had to do a different move. You had to work a different way. You had to approach it and maybe you didn't put in the work. Maybe you didn't stay at it long enough. And you said something earlier in the show of people want the success and the secret, like I want this.

53:20And is that most people, and I've done this, I did this especially when I was younger, is we put too short of a timeline on things. Like I need to do this. I need to make this amount of money in two years. And if I don't, like by the time I'm, you know, whatever, if you're young, you know, 30, 40, whatever, or I need to lose, you know, 15 pounds in two weeks. Yeah. You know, you didn't gain 15 pounds in two weeks. There it is. That. That part. Yeah. Doesn't matter what it is. You're in a bad financial situation, bad career, bad relationship, bad body, bad attitude. That shit didn't happen overnight.

54:07No. Why do you think people expect it to dissipate overnight? They don't want to go through the work. At the end of the day, people don't want to do the work because it is boring. It is mundane. We have shiny object syndrome. So we want it to happen right away. We see everyone else on social media that's doing this and doing that and going here and going there and, you know, perfect lives and blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So people switch all the time if it's not happening fast enough. They have two. We all have, you know, really small attention spans. And our expectations are that it's going to happen too fast.

54:54Like when I hit 40, I started thinking in decades. So I have goals. you know my affirmation is over the next decade and and then you have to break that down and then you know decades are years years are months months are weeks weeks are days days are hours hours are minutes minutes are seconds okay and then what are you doing each second each minute okay and this is why i have a to-do list so you know we gotta get a lot of things done in these minutes in these hours in these days and they turn into weeks and months and ultimately into a decade. You mentioned Alex Hormozy earlier, and he talks about think in terms of decades.

55:37Yeah. Because if you think in anything less, you're going to be very disappointed at your outcome. Yeah. And when I heard that, I heard that I think maybe three, four years ago, I'm like, I should probably adopt that. Yeah. I should probably really adopt that. Because for me, when we're talking about our personal growth and things like that, I have this theory that people stop doing the work, not because they don't want to do the work. It's because they're afraid of who they see themselves as in that process. And they run from it because they don't want to dive into the painful portion of it. And they're not willing to spend the decade becoming the best version of themselves.

56:14And that's what this show is about, is becoming the ultimate version of yourself. Period. End of story. And it takes a lot of getting kicked in the teeth. It's going to hurt a lot. And I think that's also, like I said many times in this, it's a gift. You have to embrace it. And Sean, most people, okay, so to reach your highest self, this is my philosophy and my theory is you have to have incredible courage to shed the life the identity of who you are now who your friends are where you're at in life and where you want to be because your friends don't want you to be so much above them so they will try to keep you you know where they're at so you have to eliminate a lot of these things and distractions and influences in your life if you want to go to the next level.

57:16So, you know, they say, you know, expertise and becoming great is really built in solitude because you have to go on a personal journey that only you can go on. And you have to change your own self-identity to reach the highest heights that you want to reach. I love that so much because, you know, the version of yourself that has everything and doing everything that you want is not the same person that's sitting in that chair right now. Right. It's not the same person sitting in this chair. So we have to grow into that person. And sometimes, not everybody, but there are individuals that have to hop the fuck off the train.

58:02Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, straight up. Yeah. And when that happens, because it's happened to me a lot over the last year, Jay, it's been a painful year. It's like, damn, like coming, going, coming and going. But then I realized like, wait a second. I may feel like I'm losing a lot of things right now, but God's preparing me for what he has next for me. So let's just focus on that. And in solitude, I want you to explain that to the audience because I understand what you mean. And I don't think you mean being alone all the time, but you have to spend moments, sometimes hours with yourself to reconcile everything going on.

58:39Yeah. The, you know, to pursue big goals, whether it's in sports, that's probably one of the easiest examples to look at. You look at, you know, like Kobe Bryant. He was just obsessed. You look at Tiger Woods, Tom Brady, Michael Phelps. Michael Phelps talks about working out 365 days a year. Yeah. You know, on Christmas, he's in the pool swimming. So, you know, those are extreme examples, right? But also with extreme results. Look at them. Right? And so in solitude is that, you know, most people, you know, are kind of average, right? That's the definition of being average. So if you're going to be around most people, you're going to likely be average.

59:29You're going to have average thoughts, you know, average habits. And if you want to advance, you need to be around people with better habits and, you know, better influences. And the higher you go up that, you know, sort of the pyramid or the ladder, so to speak, you know, there's fewer and fewer people that are on that journey. Yeah. And that will appreciate, you know, what you're doing. And, you know, and you have to go on that journey yourself, right? And to get these results, most people aren't on that journey. So they can't identify with the work or, you know, with the habits that you're doing.

1:00:04They think it's crazy or they might call you obsessed. So, you know, you have to say no to most things. And you really have to cut out a lot of things from your life. What are some of the things that you say no to now that the old J wouldn't have? I've been saying no for a long time. I've been saying no, you know, for a long time.

1:00:30What I would say now is that when you have really high quality, high trust relationships, okay, I'm focused on those and growing and building those relationships. The 80-20 rule, okay? You get 80 % of your results from 20 % of the work that you're doing. So the other 80%, you're not getting the results. So what I'm doing today is I'm focused on that 20%. And how can I leverage and maximize time with those people and those relationships so that we can all grow together, become better, go up together, win together? so it's it's i'm really focused in investing in in super high quality high trust people and high integrity i think that's i think that's beautiful because where i'm at as well is i only want to pour into the relationships that i know are going to ride with me right even if it's for a season right you know you're aligned with the type of person they are and the goals that they have Sure, you may split down the road.

1:01:44Maybe you get too busy. They get too busy. And just nothing bad happened. But the quality of the people that you're around and actually are listening to mean everything. I will not take advice from anybody that has not done or seen what I'm doing done. Yeah, that's right. No shot. Yeah. And I used to. Hey, what do you think about this? I don't know, man. I don't think you should do it. you know, I mean, you know, you sounds risky, sounds risky, man. Like really like, how are you going to build this show? You're never going to make any money. Yeah. And I said, what'd you say? Yeah. Repeat that please.

1:02:22Yeah. You're not going to ever make any money. Okay. Yeah. So now I know. Yeah. Now I know you're trying to keep me somewhere. Yeah. And I think that if we can identify in the audience that can identify those types of relationships quickly and easily and early on and move away from them and find people that push them. And when I say this, this is kind of what people don't like. They don't like when those people push them to a point to uncomfortability. I want someone making me feel this big because then I know they got my best interest in mind. I want someone to tell them, Hey, you're not good at this, but you're great at this.

1:03:02Let's focus on this over here that you're great at. And let's build this thing over time. But I want people pushing me. I want those quality relationships. Yeah. Yeah. You need transparency. You need feedback. You need constructive criticism. You need to know what you need to improve. Absolutely. To get better. You can't have people around you that are just saying yes and, you know, not telling you your fault or your blind spots. Absolutely. Dude, what an amazing journey you've had from coming from Seoul, South Korea, to LA, to NYU, to Wall Street, to here in Miami and Brickle and building skyscrapers on the water, man.

1:03:39After everything you've been through in your life and everything you've seen, the failures that you've personally had and the failures that people around you have had, what does the word determination truly mean to you? Keep going. Keep going. No matter the circumstance, no matter the problems, the challenges, the hurdles, the obstacles, the pain, the heartache, the headaches, keep going. you have to keep going through it all it gets better um but it may not feel like it in the moment but if you if you keep going you know the clouds do dissipate you know you see the the the sunshine um and in today's society in the determined society if you want to be ultra successful you have to be super determined you have to be focused you have to be lasered in you have to be willing to put in the work that certainly other people, thousands of millions of other people aren't going to put in.

1:04:37Love it, man. Great answer. That's it. Staying determined and doing the work of you when you don't want to. Hurts like hell, but so what? Yep. It's worth it. So does the other side. That's right. So thank you so much, man. Awesome having you on. Great conversation. And I know it's going to help a lot of people. Sean, thanks for having me. Absolutely. And for you guys listening, thank you so much. If you want to have updates on The Determined Society and amazing guests like Jay Roberts and everybody else we have on, head to www.thedeterminedsociety.com and sign up for all updates. And until next time, guys, keep working and stay determined.