How Matthew Dillon Turned Rock Bottom Into Unbreakable Determination

0:28You swam through the shit. to fake it right i had to fake that everything was okay because i couldn't tell everybody i was stressed i couldn't tell everybody i was scared dude this show was started out of an extreme amount of pain and look at the joy you bring people now talking about the chimp dude dude another game changer in life it gets me emotional it changed my life so much having gays on talking about crying chimpanzees bitch that's a wrap this son of a bitch dude welcome to the determined society i'm sean french thanks for tuning in

1:04what up everybody I'm back here I got my boy Matt dealing with me today man I'm so excited to have him on the show been on his show once before the fashionally late pod founder of MD effect my man welcome to the show what's up brother my guy here it's always good to see you bro it's always a great energy you bring and you're the you know you uplift people in a way that's so genuine and authentic who wouldn't want to be in this dude i appreciate that man it's pressure's on i know pressure's on we got mama here if you can see but she's well behaved don't worry yeah she she's cool man she's cool she just wanted to be next to you i know i know what are you gonna do i mean what are you gonna do hell man you're always looking fitted you look nice what are we wearing today dude this is something that's coming out in january from my own collection so i'm collaborating with another company you know i'd like to be i'd like to call myself a jack of all trades you know a little bit about me but i think today we'll get into you know taking those onion layers off because it's it's rare that somebody can be a publicist on camera podcaster chimp guy yes and i think that's what confuses people about me they're like you're like in wildlife as well i was like no that was my passion but we'll get we'll journey into that i'm interested in all the layers so i'm gonna you know throughout the conversation you know open a layer and i'll dive in because there's so much to you um first of all being a podcaster being out on camera traveling doing fashion stuff and then being a publicist that's a lot of stuff dude it is i mean being a publicist is enough because you have a bunch of people shit to keep straight correct and now you're out there behind from behind the scenes now in the in the camera doing your thing how are you scheduling how's your calendar working how are you staying how are you staying locked in on everything that you have to do okay so that's a really good question and that's something i remember and you've had her on your podcast too gertie said she goes you know if we're doing this i need you to be fully involved in this but she goes i see how everything else is this like flourishing moment to actually which benefits everybody that's in my sphere as in pr mode so how am i number one thing is i do not believe in the term balance.

3:22I will sleep when I'm dead and I'm good with that. I'm absolutely fine with that. You are living a life that is about curating memories, iconic moments, good, bad, and ugly. So I'm like, until these nuddly knees give way, I will stand up. I will rise again. But I also don't take on things that don't fit my heart. And I think that's where where my success has come from. If you look at the concept of burning out to a degree, I think people push themselves for the money. That's what I learned. So I originally am from Sydney, Australia. I moved to New York City. I was young, partying, wild, but would always show up for work the very next day.

4:09So I had this innate thing in me that when it comes to my career, that's my number one ambition is is driven but i really do believe that stepping into any project stepping into yourself as a human being that it doesn't take a lot to just stand up and show up and step into something it's like there's a lot of weak conversation now that it's too hard i'm not in the same position as you are well why aren't you in that same position yeah because you ain't busting your ass. So I don't really hear excuses. I don't take excuses. You say you'll do something. You say you'll be somewhere. It's not that difficult.

4:53Show up, bring great energy and do what you love. Cause if you don't do what you love and you're just there for money, you know, not everybody's built like you and I, I would say where you have that chutzpah to go and follow a passion, even when it takes you to dark levels. But I do believe that everybody, and that's where the fashion comes in and why I decided to pivot a little bit and start the MD effect is because I do believe everybody, if they applied themselves in, you know, it doesn't have to be at the 100 gas pedal, but if they did apply themselves, that they would reach their full potential.

5:34Not everybody's full potential is yours, nor mine, nor my brother behind the lens over there. Not everybody's potential is unique and different, but we're put on this world to do something and be grand. Why be boring and sit your ass at home and complain about what you don't have? Don't sit in and wallow in moments of toughness. Take that moment, shed a tear if you must, and move forward dude so many good things i want to get to out of that monologue right there but the one thing you said that really struck me and i thought you you probably saw my physical reaction it was not everybody has has it in them to go hard no matter how low it takes them like to the dark spots and you can't judge and I don't judge people for that either.

6:29No, I don't either. No, no judgment because I mean, even building this man, and I talk about this a lot, dude, building this platform took me to the darkest days. I mean, dark bro, like feeling unworthy, feeling unseen, just invisible, all the different words you can, you can think of for that. Right. But the ultimate thing is, is I was thinking like, you know what? This isn't my fault. This is because I don't have this. I don't have that. I don't have all these different things. Like I don't have production. I don't have nice cameras. I don't have marketing. I don't have PR. I don't have all these things.

7:09But what I quickly realized when I took care of that one thing that I needed to take care of, all those things came and I got out of those dark moments. And all of a sudden we start having these massive, massive trajectory of growth. I mean, we were up 999 % on all analytics in 2025. That's insanity. Explosive growth, right? But it's because I was willing to sit there in those darkest moments and just kind of feel those and just go with my heart. That's really nice. It's like, I'm not going to come off of this. I know I'm going to come out of it. Can't get any worse. Like this shit cannot get any worse.

7:42But you mentioned your heart, you know, and you mentioned you're from Australia and you moved to New York. Like that was said and kind of just glanced over. I know. It's like 15 years of my life that I just fast forwarded through. Yeah. And so like, I want to dig into that because you have a, you have a pretty interesting story coming from, you know, Australia to New York to LA and now you're here in Florida. Like, dude, that took balls. That took balls and you didn't know how you were going to get it done. And this is why I think this is so important to the story because everything you've created, because it's given you the platform.

8:14It's given you the strength and resilience to, to build the clothing brand, to do all the different things that you're doing, because you, you weren't afraid of what's it going to look like. You just knew that this is my passion. I want to get out to New York. I want to live there. So the audience and, and even myself back in the day would, would want something, but, but always wanted to know the, the how or the why. Right. And, and the thing that I admire about you is you didn't, you might've thought about that, but you didn't act on that. you acted in in such a way of just taking action. So I want you to walk the audience through your thought process because there's a valuable lesson here for the people listening and watching that are sitting there stuck, want to try something, but afraid.

8:55Okay. Let's say it's like, where do I, where do I begin? I would say, let me start with this sentence, living in the moment, really take pause in moments where you don't know what's happening. So even the littlest thing, the very first memory I have of getting to New York, I had a girlfriend there that was a contributor for the Today Show. Her name was Catherine Eisman. Shout out to her. She's very, very well established. She said, you should come over here and give it a shot. And I was like, give it a shot. I was really doing well in Australia. And I was 19 years old. I had my own PR firm. I was making, I kept the tax return.

9:37I'd made over a million dollars. So I had done amazing work already. and I knew coming to America, I would go back to the bottom. Yep. I knew that. Some other people don't think that. They think, oh, I could ride what I have to get there. No, no, no. You are a clean slate. You've got to start from the beginning. I remember the craziest story was I knew Madison Avenue, Fifth Avenue was like luxury. I found a great rental on 125th between Fifth and Madison. And now this is Harlem back before Harlem had been gentrified though. This is way back when I arrived late at night. I packed my, my stuff in there.

10:18I woke up the next morning to go open a bank account. Now me being somebody in Australia that really has never seen a culture like that walked outside. And I was like, what is all this? Now I lived for it, but I was like, Holy shit. I'm one. This is everybody else. and I remember the lady at the bank said to me do you know where you are and some other lady behind the thing screamed at her and said you better watch your motherfucking voice to him he's like he's a brother like I am and I'm a sister to him this is beautiful African-American lady so the bank teller was basically saying you're white we all black what's happening and I'm like I'm just trying to open a bank account I just moved here I'm here and I need somewhere to take it was shocking so i won't say the banks but i basically walked next door and joined the banks next door yeah of course you did so that being said that culture shock from australia everyone thinks australia is like you know it is multicultural but i've never been in a community where it's a lot of one and me yeah and unfortunately you know i think the culture is so important in new york city and i think that's what really toughens you up that you are put in scenarios where you sink or swim.

11:33Are you going to stand by who you are? Are you going to listen, learn, understand, take pause and really get involved? I think my greatest skill set is that you can put me in a room, even back then, you could put me in a room and I'm one of myself and everybody's different to me. So I'm the odd man out. You can take me to a country town and even as a gay man, I will rock with you in that town and they will end up loving me. You can put me in any scenario. And I believe the statement that I'm going to say is you've got to fake your shit until you make your shit. And that is so powerful to me because I was bullied in high school in Australia.

12:16I wasn't this confident person. And I became this cause I was like, I feel greatness in me. Australia's pushing me down. They don't want me to unleash my beast. and America just opened up the doors and were like, hey, we'll take you. Hey, we like what you're doing here. Like, let's, hey. And this was before I was doing anything. I just had the balls to step in and open my big ass mouth and ask questions and be respectful and learn and listen. These are really important skills for anybody sitting at home asking, why is this not happening? Why can't I be this person? Why can't you can be whatever the hell you want to be?

12:57but if you don't know the skills listen first don't don't have there's a difference between fake it till you make it and false bravado false bravado you know you can fool a few people but that's when you turn into a narcissist a manipulator a bullshit artist i was never that i moved all the way to new york and i started from the ground up again i worked in fashion for years as an intern I started so I went from making money using that money that I'd saved to survive and actually interned so I've interned for Kelly Catron who back in that day was on the hills with Lauren Conrad and Heidi major major player I moved into another power firm industry PR that looked after Harvey Weinstein's production so before he was popping off Harvey I was in with you know, Georgina Chapman and like learning from the greats on the outside of the door.

13:51I wasn't even in the door. I was like, but I'm here. I came all the way from there and I'm here. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you talked about is, um, you can be anywhere and have these great conversations. You can be you. And it's through a lot of personal development. Obviously you talk about a lot of people say, I don't like fake it till you make it be it till you are it. It's the same freaking thing, dude. You're just, you're just, you're just, you're just packaging it differently because there's multiple moments in my journey where I did have to fake it. Right. I had to fake that everything was okay.

14:24Cause I couldn't tell everybody I was stressed. I couldn't tell everybody I was scared. You're the captain. Yeah. I'm like, dude, like, I mean, the closest people to me knew that I was just out of my depth. I was completely out of my depth. Didn't know your destiny. Exactly. Out of your depth. Yeah. But in your destiny. Exactly. Right. But the thing that I've always enjoyed about you was your level of self-confidence and, or is your level of self-confidence and your ability to make relationship with all types of people, man. And, and, and that is a testament to you. Thank you. You know, for the audience, you need to go look Matt Dillon up and you need to follow him.

15:00You need to go check out everything he's doing. His show is great. His purpose is great, but he's a great friend. And, and, you know, when I, I, I don't always read emails in its entirety and I read your email in its entirety. I appreciate that. And, and I, and I was just blown away. I mean, like, dude, that move, like it's not an easy thing. You know, people could say, okay, well you just move from Australia to here in New York. Yeah. It's going to be tough, but dude, there's so many layers to that. Huge layers. There's so many layers, bro. Mental, physical, emotional. I mean, pull a year out.

15:39It's like for me, I went through drug habits, alcoholism, cocaine addiction, and still showed up and worked. Now, that's what they call the functioning problem. That's problematic. Sure, right. I changed my direction and completely changed that and shut out my initial four or five years of people that I was hanging around. I cut them all out. So you had to start over again. One more time. Yeah. One more time. New network. But I had people that were there that were like, if you can beat this, you can be great. And the big defining factor for me was this big change where it was probably the second or third Christmas in New York.

16:16And I was super lonely, feeling really alone in a sense of like when you're surrounded by people, but you're like, this is not my people. and I remember I was like the only thing that really resonated with me made thought of happiness was seeing animals and dogs and what have you walking around so I called the ASPC up and I said do you guys do like picking up dogs like that they were like we need people the day after Christmas is the biggest rate of return of animals and I was like all right who do I meet this woman on the side of the street she's in she's in like a sprinter van looking thing no windows sex van what's going on what the hell's happening you gotta be careful those vans bro you gotta be careful no tags on it nothing no English either now I live in Miami I'm still like a little shitty on the Spanish but she was like call me mama is what I understood I was like oh mamacita no problems we went and picked dog after dog after dog up five five more stops on the thing we come to a place we take a dog and I hear a dog like a squealing sound in a trash can right at the end of the block and I'm running down there and she's running behind me and she's like pushing me back like this and she opens it up and she puts it back down turns to me and she's like yours no paperwork I was like mine and I open it up it's a little geriatric she was no more than four months jaw hanging a little skew with where you at come on ready come on mama camera she came out of the trash there you are baby there she is good girl oh man so we're now 17 years later 17 years 17 years later she came out of a trash can she was the size of just bigger than my hand and she lives a life that good girl good girl let's let you back down no violence no violence don't choose violence today so we found each other and if she could write a memoir bitch dude i'm gonna tell you something it changed my whole trajectory yeah it gave me purpose having a responsibility and i just fell in love with the fact that somebody had discarded this being and i felt discarded and i was like that's so like woe be me i'm discarded but she had enough money to come to new york city yeah but i felt like I wasn't in my right place.

18:52So dog, man, we found our thing and I would bring this bitch everywhere. She's here. She's here. She's hiding behind the thing, but she's doing well. It's funny because I'm, I go deeper when you tell stories like that, right? Like I'm hearing it, but I think one of your other gifts is being able to see the truth or the potential in everyone. And I think it was created in those moments because you know, know, you, it's about, you know, seeing a dog in a garbage can, but it's really finding the beauty in that and nursing that dog back to him and understanding that you haven't always been understood.

19:32You were bullied growing up, but I was bullied a little bit growing up too. And so people like us, we, we tend to find the beautiful side of people and, and find those gifts. And that's a superpower. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, I did have that thought. if I ever found that person that did that, they'd be like in the trash can dismembered, but that's okay. I do have that little split section. Yeah, don't we all, don't we all? But I do feel that trajectory started a lot of growth for me and it started ideas. And at that point I was surrounded and I was in the door, not fully in the door, but I was getting paid now.

20:10You know, we fast forward to the part, I think, where all that shit, because I stuck in it and I swam through it all and I didn't let it put me six feet under. Did it break me? Yes, at some points it did. I think you can be broken and rebuild from broken. I think that's okay. Because I don't want to sit here and say, in a sense, that determination, the whole epi of your part to me, and I was thinking about it coming here, And, you know, what does determination mean to me? If I was to think that through this whole cycle, it would be like, you know, push me down, but stay tuned because I'll always get back up.

20:54Like I really do have, I'm never going to stop. I don't want to stop. I love the life that all of it, the bad, the goods, the thing, every moment I really appreciate, you know, and I'm like, sometimes, yeah, I'm exhausted. Sometimes we all, but I'm like, it's a blessing to like have lived so many dreams and so many ways. And I always say like, now I'm here living in Miami, in Florida, but New York raised me. It was 15, 16 years of hell, high moments, finding family. Like every major friendship I have stems from there. And it's like, I go back there. I was just back there last week for some press and I regularly go back.

21:41It really is a city that people are like, oh, if you can make it there. And then you're not in New York unless you've been there 10 years. I was like, catch me. I'm a half Aussie. I did 16. I'm good. I think there's a certain duodevi about New York where people are like, she's a tough city. They're angry. Nobody's nice in New York. I was like, I firmly disagree with that. They have that nice. Tell me. Come on. What you got? What you got? Okay. That'd be nice to you now, though. I'm from California. I just want to clarify to everybody listening. Sorry, we love Cali, too. I grew up there. Oh, see, though, no?

22:17No, I was in San Francisco Bay. Love, all right. San Fran, I can play with. Yeah, so East Bay. So, like, 45 minutes east of San Francisco, Contra Costa County. Okay. My best interactions in this business have been from publicists and marketing executives and all from New York. So. It's interesting. Bro. That's interesting. Like the best of the best. They're so nice. They're responsive. They're direct. They're direct. Okay. So that scares people, right? But they're kind. I've never been on the bad side of direct yet. Yet. I'm sure I will be. No, we're never. Never. But it's so funny that you say that because I find the people in New York that I work with specifically in my business to be super approachable, like to a point where you would even think of texting, uh, a publicist that was had a full feature in variety magazine.

23:16Correct. Yes. You know, Sarah, right. Like I'm, Hey, what's up girl? Like, what's up? Like she's the one that set up the one for us next week in, uh, in your studio. But like, that's the, that's the misconception, dude. That's a misconception. better be known i do say that that plays 50 in your and who you are too because you're energy right energy yeah yeah yeah yeah you know you said something interesting and i and i really for the nature of the show want to dive into it because you say you you sat in it and you swam through the shit i was covered in it yeah yeah sorry i mean that to me yeah that to me though it's just like anything if you're in the gym or you're trying to run a marathon you're going to break yourself down you're gonna you're gonna be worse before you get better and i think the problem with adversity is people see it as this never-ending loop that they're never gonna get out of it i'm right here right now and they and they and dude they keep talking about the same thing over and over again i'm struggling i'm struggling i'm screwed i'm screwed and guess what happens they stay they stay there you convince yourself they truly stay there you eat shit i mean i would wake up every day today's the day i still do i go today's the day something massive pops because i feel like you're at the you're at a level here but i was like you've got so much more to go and i'm like i feel like i'm just starting i'm 43 years old damn proud of it and i've got so i'm just starting yeah dude i think that's beginning i think there's so much more to me and so much more to the show that that hasn't even been touched yet you've scratched that scratch has been impactful yeah yeah it's it's been an impactful impactful scratch but i'm like way too shut up or anything like that but just what is this podcast what is this i'm confused the determined society sponsored by uh johnson and johnson sponsored by valtracs i was saying something like that.

25:18It's not really just kidding guys. No, dude, I just think that it's such an important point because in everybody's life, there's, there's individuals right now listening that don't understand what it means to fight through those moments. And, and I'm not here to judge. I'm, I'm, I'm here to educate and help. So when you, for you, when you were in, when you, when you were neck deep and shit, what are some of the things that you did every single day, Like little decisions, micro decisions, micro actions that started leading you out. Okay. So first major decision I did was eliminate humans and bad seeds in my life.

25:57And I think that's harder than one thinks, but easier to action. So, you know, my darkest thing was like, I was doing cocaine 24 hours a day almost. That's crazy. I would go into the bathroom. I would do it. I would da, da, da, da, da, da. I would party on it. And then I'd wake up the next morning and need it to get out of bed. I've never done it. I've never done it. It's just good, but it ain't right. Sorry. I'm on 100%. It is what it is, but we good. We good. So where I come from that story is though, when you're functioning on that level, imagine the personality I have just being this. I'm on a hundred million.

26:36I can't even, I wouldn't be able to handle it. But they were living for me. At that point I was like, doors open, we're ready to go. Yeah. I think what really struck me was that it internalized with me. I started to go, I went to rehab once. I seconded that, started to just self-analyze. And I think when you're sitting in those deep moments, start really taking a mental note or write it down. And I was like, I'm doing cocaine in bed with my dog sitting next to me. That's not what this was. like party like when you get to a level of life where you're so like you've you have everything in the back but you're pushing it to the side and like you start making up shit to to counter oh i'm not going out tonight and you're sitting in solo and and and wallow mode my it happened like my mind clicked and i was like this is ridiculous i will not do this anymore i should be a bajillionaire by now, but I'd rather spend it on bullshit.

27:38And when I'm doing this shit, X, Y, and Z happens. And I never want to do this again and again and again. It's a cycle that you have to use. It's vicious, but it does, it says, so to answer the question using that as my core darkest example is to say, sit in that moment, give yourself the ability to, to breathe. I think people get to the point where we're trying to keep up to just survive right now. And if you can just sit there and be like, nothing's going to change till tomorrow anyway, or the next day, sit there and just breathe, cry your heart out. But when you get through that little moment and you will, you will, you know, I believe everybody is innately strong.

28:28I don't believe everybody is, and this might be controversial i don't believe everybody's meant for greatness up on these levels but i believe greatness is introspective so when you be like you know you've got millions of downloads you're the number one podcast so we're looking at what dreams goals everything live in reality is is is part of this because some people are like i want to be a singer I don't even think you can't hold a note so like sorry that's not going to happen be a realist in your own life so don't lie to yourself live in the reality of what you love and when you start to kind of look at what people around you eliminate things early that's called living in things but when you're in your 30s and you hit your 40s that's when you really should have things at least in a better push, at least in a better push.

29:27Not everybody has the innate perception to, to really understand how important it is you are who you surround yourself with. And that takes time, but that also takes time. And when you realize that and you eliminate certain things, it's like this exhale moment, the person that you were doing the bad shit with, or the person that was, you know, emotionally abusing you. Like there's so many layers to humankind and the reasons we go through teenager, young adult, and the reasons some win, some lose and what have you. For me, it was eliminating people, really just getting down to the thing of being okay, talking to yourself up here.

30:14And if that makes me certified to be crazy, then mate, I know a lot of people that talk to themselves and they're very successful. Daily, bro, daily. And I think another point that I would add for me is when I make changes, when they don't stick, it's because I'm shaming the shit out of myself. Correct. And I'm, you know, like, you know, if I were sitting there at that point with you, you know, if that were me, you know, next to my dog, you know. I was the most ashamed. I bet, I bet. But it's okay to be ashamed in a moment, right? It's okay. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. It's okay to feel shame, but to turn it into a month long shame fest on yourself is really not going to play well.

30:57And so I found like, Hey, you can feel shame, but don't shame yourself. I mean, I feel it. I'm like, okay, well now I need to do, this is my problem. I'm going to do this today. I'm going to make it digestible. I'm going to make it, you know, it's where I can do this again tomorrow. and then I keep going and I keep going and I would continue on that path until something broke free. It's, it's very indicative of like, I, I decided to, you know, do a coffee date with a friend in New York city. And I, and I pushed away a lot of people that could have been like lovers, friends, business associates, because I was like, best not to see them.

31:37So you take a nighttime thing and you go for a walk with a dog you go here i used to live near a big bridge so i was on the upper east side we used to walk the bridge back and forth and that took 45 minutes and then i would be exhausted and go to sleep so it's like it's things like that where you look at and it's taking those principles that you're speaking about and that i'm speaking about and saying hell it's okay to not be okay for sure secondary to that your dream is not my dream your dream is not their dream and that's okay but but you're put on this earth to do something chase your dream don't don't diminish what god gave you and the the body and and what have you like really and it took me a long time later in life so you know i put my body and my mind and my everything through hell and to be able to sit here and say like now i'm like you know i could be so further along but i would not i would not be the human that i am no it built you ever it built you i would not be able to be cutthroat in my decision making and i think that's what differentiates me from everybody you have really good discernment when you're decision making you're very i've noticed when i've asked you questions and certain things it's when the answer is there it's there like i trust that.

33:00Like that's somebody I can trust. I trust that in myself now. Because that's why we're friends, right? That's why I can trust because I see that in you. That was learned through hard ass problematic life. And I think that's the best way to be what I am now. That discernment isn't cocky. It is an ego. It's knowing for a fact. If I say I can do this, I'll call this person. I'll get you this. I'm going to do so. Well, that's the thing because like when you go through things like that. You build up the person that you want to become. Correct. You have, you have this vision. And for people listening and watching, you have this vision of yourself that you want to be, you want to become a, what would that person do?

33:42Would it keep his word or her, her word to yourself? Would you keep your word to your friends? Would you do what you said you're going to do is basically what it all boils down to here in life. Like do what you said you're going to do for others and yourself and your life will get pretty damn easy because guess why? Those two things are very hard to do. It is very hard to do. Keep your word to yourself is the easiest thing to break because no one knows. No one knows. But we live in such a hustle society. We're on social media. We're looking at this. We're looking at that. I want to be you. You want to be me.

34:16Nobody is you. Nobody is me. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. And at 43, I realized I am who I am. I'm broken. I'm scratched. I'm bruised and I'm pretty damn bloody good at what I do and who I am as a human being. Now I like animals way more than I like humans. You're an exception. I got a few exceptions, but I tell you what, lock me in with the chimp and the dog, put me on a refuge with a hundred of them. They won't hurt me. You watch. Jane Goodall is the G master of my life. And I look at people like that and I'll be like, damn, I wonder if I got time to like get enough money. And then, you know, by 70, I'm going to open like a big ranch somewhere.