John O’Leary: The Real-Life Miracle Behind Soul on Fire

0:00When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at goodtoknowfacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients. Visit goodtoknowfacts.org. For those that haven't read the book, talk about that day. I'm nine. A week before I watched kids play with fire and gasoline in my neighborhood. And I walked into the garage, bent over a five gallon can of gasoline, set the flame down, bear hugged the can and waited for liquid.

0:45The fumes grabbed the flame, creates this massive explosion and then launches me 20 feet against the far side of the garage. I'm burned on 100 percent of my body. I'm in the emergency room, covered, man, in burns. And I hear my father's voice down the hall yelling at some nurse. And I'm like, dude, he's coming to finish me off. Man marches in, he's a veteran, points down and says very firmly, John, I love you. And there's nothing you can do about it. What was the first download, the thought that you had after he said that? Moments later comes my mom and I look up at my mom and I say, mom, am I going to die?

1:21And she says back to me this bold question, do you want to?

1:29John O 'Leary, you were literally supposed to die. You were given a 0 % chance to make it through the night. But here we are years later, having this amazing conversation. He wrote an incredible book called On Fire. And there's a movie based on your story, bro, that comes out very, very soon. Starring William H. Macy. What a dream, baby. Talk to me. It is a dream. And it doesn't seem like it's my life. That's for sure. The book you held up a moment ago, when they first did the cover for On Fire, it was a picture of O 'Leary wearing a tie, like a power tie, bright red, probably. Arms were crossed.

2:07And I'm looking out at the reader with a stoic face like people. Should you decide to read this? You shall be great like me, perhaps. So I wrote them back. And I'm like, guys, read the book. It's not about me. And when they redid the jacket, you see there's no photo of me on the front or the back. those letters on fire there it's called it's called foil wrap the idea sean is that when you hold that in your hands you see a reflection of yourself in those letters not me like your that's what we wanted to show you in that and then the film poster for soul on fire when they first did that it was a picture of the guy playing me in the film named joel courtney and there was a victory pose his arms were in the air like this in color looking out at the screen He just thrown out a first pitch at a sold out baseball game.

2:52Like, look at the winner. Look at the hero. So I wrote back to Sony and I said, hey, guys, watch the film. Again, it's not about John O 'Leary. And so now when you look at the film poster for Soul on Fire, they turned him around. He's kind of shadowed out. And what the film poster ultimately is, is the mosaic of all the people in John's life who showed up for him, what they did, the love they gave and the life they changed. and so the only way i can stomach books about myself or podcasts or films is recognizing none of it's about me and that's not humility it's awareness i love that john and you know i want to give the audience some context um behind my story and how you actually relate to it um you you showed up for me dude and you didn't even know so what you created in your life by choices you made by becoming a victor instead of a victim, you put out this amazing story of community coming together to help you heal.

3:52Right. And I remember right around 2017, right around there, it might have been 2016 when the book was published, I was walking through a bookstore and now listen, you know, my son was three and I just had, you know, my first daughter, you know, I'm doing very good in sales, but there's just something missing in my life. And I couldn't really figure out what it was. I was just hurting in some way. I needed something else to tap into the thing that I was just laying dormant, like allowing to lay dormant. And I couldn't find a book. I'm going around and a lot of times, like to your point, like I will pick up a book based on the cover.

4:30And I saw yours finally, it said on fire. I'm like, Ooh, what is this? I want to be on fire because I thought it was about just being lit up, right? To go out there and conquer. And that's the kind of energy that I wanted to be on. But then I read the description and I'm like, oh, this is much different. I'm still going to buy this book. And for those who know me know that I'm not going to sit and read a book cover to cover. It's very hard for me to do that and sit down. But I picked up your book. I read it cover to cover. And I remember talking to my wife about you years ago. I said, this book right here is going to serve a big purpose in my life.

5:08And now here I am, however many years later, because I suck at math, I'm having this conversation with you about your book that a movie was just made chronicling and actually talked to one of the stars of the movie about your story. And so I sit here to say, and for the audience listening and watching, don't just pick up a book, connect with it. Don't just have a conversation, connect with it because you never know years later, this whole thing could come full circle and you could literally be having a conversation with some of that impact that you're like. That is so cool. Like oftentimes the work, cause I'm a speaker and a writer, have a podcast, but it's a little bit like throwing seeds in the field and you don't really return to the field.

5:56It's very difficult in the work we do to really understand what has happened. And, and more importantly, is it worth it? So to hear one story, your story, that somehow this book hit you at the right time and moved you in the right direction and lit you up again. You're right, man. Like on fire is not about like sprinting through walls. It's about reminding yourself that it's possible if you want to walk through them or climb over them or walk around them, like you can move forward in your life. You have agency, but you've got to stop making excuses. So true. And then dude, like I will be, you know, very, very forthcoming and saying like, dude, if I had never read your book, I'm not doing what I'm doing.

6:39Awesome. That's it. That's true. I mean, people that know me and listen to me for a very long time know that I don't say shit. That's not true. Like I will give my honest, honest opinion. And so for those that haven't read the book, you know, they obviously haven't seen the movie yet. Right. But, but walk them. Talk about that day, man. Man, talk about that day that your whole life kind of took a little bit of a, well, I'd say a little bit, facetiously, but a detour. It took a little detour. An explosion in your childhood house will do that to a man. So here's the story in a nutshell. I'm nine.

7:14A week before I watched kids play with fire and gasoline in my neighborhood. This is the 80s. Crazy things are happening. You don't have anything to do, so you just mess around outside all the time. And I figured if these kids could do that at 11 and 12, I could certainly do it at age nine. So the following weekend, my mom and dad are gone. The house was mine. I walked into the garage, bent over a five-gallon can of gasoline, tried to pour a little bit of gas on top of this little, like essentially a match on fire. And as I reached for the can, Sean, it's too heavy. It's five gallons. That's 42 pounds.

7:48set the flame down, bear hugged the can, very carefully tipped it and waited for liquid. And before the liquid came out, the fumes grabbed the flame, pulls it back into the container, creates this massive explosion, splits the metal in two, picks up a nine-year-old boy, and then launches me 20 feet against the far side of the garage. So this little detour, man, And in short, I find myself trapped in a garage covered in gasoline. Everything around me is burning. And so am I. Later that morning, I'm in the emergency room. That's a true story. I'm in the emergency room covered, man, in burns and in pain.

8:31But the thought I had like on repeat, like this drumbeat was, oh, my gosh, my dad is going to freaking kill me when he finds out what I did to the garage. Like this thing is done. Why is the staff messing with me? Have they not met my dad? And, you know, we talked about heroes a moment ago, and you're about to start seeing them show up. So I'm laying in the emergency room dying, and I hear my father's voice down the hall yelling at some nurse. Where is my boy, John? And I'm like, dude, he's coming to finish me off. So one of them brings him back. Should I call security? He opens up the curtain, man marches in, he's a veteran, points down and says very firmly, John, look at me when I'm talking to you.

9:17So I look up and then he adds, I have never been so proud of anyone in my entire life. And my little buddy today, this morning, I'm glad, just simply glad to be your dad. And then Sean, my dad goes, John, I love you. And there's nothing you can do about it.

9:44Wow. Wow. And at that point, right. And first of all, I mean, to me, it's kind of a miracle that you're even aware of anything at that point. Right. And you, and you hear your father tell you that, what was the first download, the thought that you had after he said that? So these are my memories. This isn't like, well, it was told to me that this is just what happened. So what I remember immediately afterwards, he says he loves me. There's nothing I can do about it. I shut my eyes and remember thinking, oh, my gosh, nobody told my dad what happened. Like, maybe I can get away with it. That was the very first thought.

10:24Because I did not really, you know, I'm now a dad of four. So I get it. But you don't really, really get love and grace and mercy, I don't think, until you love something bigger than yourself. And I did not. And I was after playing baseball, man. That was my dream. I wanted to play ball and I wanted to be outside and I wanted friends. And I was chasing me. And I experienced that love. And right behind my dad's love, like moments later comes my mom. And she's bold. She's this awesome lady still. she took my right hand in hers she pats my bald head it's like a train wreck i'm burned on 100 of my body 87 third degree and i look up at my mom and i say mom am i gonna die and she says back to me this bold question do you want to it's your choice not mine john and i looked up and i said mom no i don't i don't want to die gosh i want to live And her response was, good, hon.

11:25Then take the hand of God, walk the journey with him, and fight like you never fought before. Your daddy and I will be with you every step along the way. But do your part and fight. And on that morning, Sean, I didn't know what any of this meant, man. I didn't know what amputations were coming. I didn't know what skin grafts meant or debridement. I don't know the journey or the science. But I do, even as a kid, know how to fight and came up in a faith filled house. And I knew what it looked like to take the hand of God and just shut your eyes and move on. And that's what we did. And I'm not telling you that it made five and a half months in hospital easy.

12:04I don't think there's enough morphine to do that. But I think what those parents did for me on day one made the journey possible. you know that's thank you for diving into that because i think as a young child we can all think of those moments where like dad's gonna kill me mom's gonna mom's gonna if if he doesn't kill me mom's gonna finish me off but to have that grace and that love in such a big moment right and your parents just dude it just reading the book watching the screening the movie and then listening to you right now on first account is like, your parents are just special, man. You know, they understood, you know, understanding the bigger picture.

12:50It's like, what's more important, empower my son or be pissed at him for setting the garage on fire himself, right? An explosion at my house. They were just a different, different, they're just different. so you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text but which you do you listen to is it we could buy a house in tulum get optioning those options we could lose everything or let's do a little research get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you learn more at finra.org slash trade smart This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast, smart move.

13:41Being financially savvy, smart move. Another smart move, having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. and still are. My dad passed away on May 30th recently. So that's still part of our story now, but he was different until the very end on purpose. He was beautiful.

14:17Had Parkinson's disease for 30 years, but just never griped. Never, not once in his life was a victim to a thing that robbed everything from him. There's something to be said in that. So we can come back to that if you want, but my mom is a big reason why he was able to stay at home until the day he died because she fought for him. She is heroic. You know, we can talk about the time in hospital, like the things she did, I think, and you saw it a little bit in the film, there's a scene when John comes out of the hospital. So this is after five and a half months and after all this work, man, and like they have the homecoming party and the front door shuts.

14:53And then my mom sets a plate of food in front of me and my sister, Amy grabs a fork and starts feeding me because I'm fingerless. I'm a victim and life's hard. So she, She grabs this fork and then I hear from my mom over to my right, Amy, drop the fork. If John's hungry, he'll feed himself. Dude, like I look at my mom and then back at my sister. I'm like, what are you talking about, man? I'm not going to feed myself tonight or ever. Have you not seen what has happened in my life? Feed me. And then my mom says again, if he's hungry, he will feed himself. And it's a fairly long story, but I'll shorten it.

15:34It was about a two hour dinner then of a kid crying and flipping plates and cursing and getting yelled at for cursing and everything else that takes place when you're a child and you're struggling. But by the end of that night, Sean, like I had figured out a way to wedge the fork between two hands, bend my elbows enough to put food in my mouth. The entire time staring at my mom thinking, man, I hate this woman. I hate my mom, but I'm eating. So this lady, this leader wasn't just there like in that moment of the explosion. Like, oh, she said the right thing once. No, man, she did the right thing consistently almost every day of her life to elevate the lives of those around her.

16:16And almost none of it was easy. Making a kid cry and fall on the floor and a million things like this, that's not easy. The easier thing is to feed the kid, man, get dinner over with. But she was trying to teach me agency. Tough love is hard, but it sets you free in the long run. well you know in the movie it said i mean again probably wasn't word for word but she says to she said to your sister if you do it for him now he'll never learn how to do we'll be doing it for him forever something of that tone and and when we're talking about the support you know you're talking about community showing up you have you know and and again look man i have three children okay and when something goes on with my son or my two daughters and nothing that went on with you it's like I just want to rescue we have this thing nowadays where we want to rescue and and to help excessively to take that adversity no tool out of their tool belt you know so I can only imagine how hard it was for your mom and dad and your sister to sit there and watch you struggle at that dinner and they did it out of love I bet you on the inside your parents were crying and screaming inside.

17:30It's so sad. In fact, a little inside baseball talk here, the reality is that scene in the film, I don't know how long it actually is, but it was two or three times longer. And it was testing poorly when they first started showing this because parents struggled, why would you abuse a child? And what those people who are testing this thing had apparently not the maturity to fully recognize is the only person being more abused than the child, trust me was the mother who was breaking inside watching this thing unfold this isn't fun it's not abuse it's freedom it's you know you play ball man it's why sometimes you stay after you and you run the track it's not it's not abuse it's ultimately going to free you to become the best version of yourself no one wants to do that neither the coach the hard moments john the hard moments that's what makes everybody and it's like i look at your story and it's just you know a lot of people can say oh oh, you know, poor John.

18:27I'm like, dude, that built him. That built him the man he is. And granted, there's certain challenges that you've gone through, certain challenges you go through every day that I don't have to deal with right now. And good Lord willing, I never will, right? Let's just be on it. But it gives me kind of a thing like, well, wait a second. And for people listening, these hard moments, these moments of adversity and absolute potential death has built you into this amazing author, an amazing husband, a father, and an absolutely kick-butt inspirational speaker. You've built something from this and you've inspired, right?

19:07You've inspired the world because of the thing that happened to you. And the one thing that I really want to touch on, and then I'll shut up and let you go and run with this is, dude, this happened to you, but you did not let it define you ultimately overall. I'm sure there were moments, right? I'm sure there were moments where like, this is who I am. No, it's something that happened to you, but what you've created because of that, right? Or inspired it or whatever is to me, truly the inspirational aspect. You know, and there's, there's beauty and difficulty in that. So the cool thing and the beauty is my mom and dad and siblings refused to view me differently than they did before January 17th, before I got burned, before I spent five and a half months in hospital, before I went through life for a couple of years in a wheelchair or for the rest of it without fingers and scars from my neck to my toes.

20:06They refused to view me as less than or victimized or unable to do the dishes or walk the dog. And so what that led to, And this is sort of the good thing, but also a bit of the rub is a child who never once looked down at the scars and even acknowledged them. I viewed myself as equal with anybody else always, which is really good. But I also never really healed from that time in hospital or the difficulty that came out of it. And that went on when I'm 10, 11, 12, 15, 20, 25, really until like 28. I would either mask up, wear long sleeves, or be performative, build businesses and prove to the world that I was worthy, or drink too much, or a million other ways of proving that I'm normal.

21:00And in some regards, when my life began to change in a really healthy, healing way was when I was 28. I was in the back row of a church service. I'm not going to go all evangelical, but this is where it happened. Back row, hung over from the night before, arms are crossed. I'm looking down. I'm beat down by just difficulties that I don't even have names for in my life. And the pastor said, and for those of you who feel as if you have no talent, and if I'm being real with anyone, like that's how I felt at that time as I'm performing. I was talentless and cut off from. That's how I felt. And he said, listen to me.

21:41your life and then he goes your life is a precious priceless gift you have one job say yes to being used for good and for whatever reason that this like line structure just rocked me i wrote it down i went to work the following day and you saw this in the film this part of it and i'm just working and a car pulls up and a lady says will you speak at my girl scout troop in in any other day in my life before that i would have said no because i'm not a speaker i'm not going to be defined by my scars or my past i'm moving forward thank you very much i'm not going to talk about it but the day before this guy man in a church service said said yes to being used for good and that awkward yes led to one little speech with a few girl scouts led to another speech led to a fourth a third a fourth a fifth a tenth a fiftieth a hundred thousand twenty seven hundred speeches later but what happened in each speech is each time out i got a little bit more comfortable on why my story mattered to someone else and theirs and when you begin to heal like there's an old there's a guy named henry now and who wrote your scars exist exist because wounds have healed.

22:55And he also wrote later on in this book, what is most personal and private is most universal and sacred. So the very things you want to bury deep in the ground are in fact, once redeemed and embraced and lifted back into the light, the very things that connect you to others. So as I'm, as I'm speaking to a couple of Girl Scouts, I wasn't there yet, but to the Rotary Club, a little better. Kiwanis, a little better. Chamber of Commerce, a prison, a school and at each time out became a little bit more comfortable in my own skin so now that i'm dude i'm free like i'm not defined by it in a positive or negative lens i'm just liberated by it that's amazing dude like i

23:44it's such a hard it's it's such a hard thing for a lot of people to really probably relate to right because I mean, maybe they had a breakup or something and that, that takes them on a completely different tangent and they're never able to recover, you know, and it may be because like whatever the case may be for some people, right. They just choose to be that victim and stay there and live there and die there really quite honestly. It's me that's sad. And also begs the question, you know, what's the support, you know, look like with them, you know, who do they have in their life? And for you, man, reading the book and watching the movie, your support.

24:23I don't want to go another minute without talking about your nurse that helped you. And Jack Buck, man, that was massive. Let's talk about those two individuals and how they played a part in your recovery. yeah so i will but i'm gonna i'm gonna pull off of what you just talked about a moment ago with uh i bet there's people listening and viewing who don't even know like which like really the extent of what you're talking about and maybe i do know though that when i speak always there's a book signing line afterwards and always the first sentence they share with me is john it's nothing like your story but and then they talk about the divorce they talk about the abuse They talk about the bankruptcy.

25:10They talk about the cancer diagnosis. They talk about a struggle their kid has in class. They talk about the question that their sister's struggling with right now. They talk about the Republican party or the democratic party or the economy. They talk about how this story impacts their life because they too have dealt with fires. So I think all of us, man, every one of us has been hit up by that in the past or in the presence and many people far worse than me because mine was mostly physical, obviously. But to your next point, the question you're asking, none of it was relational. I had a parent, plural, who were wild about me.

25:47I had five siblings who were for me. I had four grandparents who fought for me. I had a class of kids when I was pushed back into their classroom who stood up and cheered for me. Like, dude. So throughout my whole life, this structure of love has just bathed in it. So, so many of the folks who say, John, it's nothing like you, but they tell me the story of brokenness from childhood. or an abuse in their relationship or a million things that, man, I don't know how they got over it. So I do think everybody's got a story and it's worth sharing. And it's worth being liberated from. And one of the ways to do so, it's either to serve someone else.

26:25Because some of your listeners and viewers are thinking, dude, like whatever O 'Leary is about to talk about now, I don't have that nurse and I don't have that announcer. And that may be true. So become that person for someone else. That is in your control. You have no control over who shows up for you. You have complete control over how you show up for someone else. And if you're not sure where to go, go to a food pantry, go to Big Brothers Big Sisters, get involved at some hospital, go. And in focusing on someone else, your life will get better. I promise you. I know you interviewed William H.

26:57Macy a week ago or so, and Bill played the role of Jack Buck. Jack Buck's life was good. He's a radio announcer. He's a Hall of Famer. he's got eight kids so it's not like he needs a pet project okay the guy is inundated with stuff and always he come out came out of the depression served in world war ii came home with a purple heart and never forgot the humility and the grace of his life always trying to put himself out there to be of service to those around him so so the night i was burned bill may have shared part of the story with you, but he was at a charity auction with Jack Buck. Sorry, it's weird to talk about like a real person and an actor, but the real person, Jack, Jack was at a charity auction wearing a tuxedo and overheard a conversation about a little boy who got burned today in St.

27:51Louis and was going to die. Hey, business owners, we know, you know, the importance of maximizing every dollar with the Delta SkyMiles Reserve Business American Express card. You can make your expenses work just as hard as you. From afternoon coffee runs to stocking office supplies and even team dinners, you can earn miles on all your business expenses. Plus, you can earn 125 ,000 bonus miles for a limited time through October 29th. The Delta Sky Miles Reserve Business Card. If you travel, you know. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply. Offer ends October 29th, 2025. Next up is a little song from CarMax about selling a car your way.

28:26You wanna sell those wheels You wanna get a CarMax instant offer So fast Wanna take a sec to think about it Or like a month Wanna keep tabs on that instant offer With OfferWatch Wanna have CarMax pick it up from your driveway You wanna get it done to it You wanna do it all So, wanna drive? CarMax, pickup not available everywhere Restrictions and fee may apply Like, what do you do when that happens? And what Jack did is he wiped his mouth. He sat down a cup of water or whatever he was sipping on, excused himself. It's a crazy story, man. Goes to a burn center, a place he'd never been before. There's one primary one in St.