In short
Michael Franzese recounts his rise in the Colombo crime family, the gas-tax scheme that made him millions, and his later public exit from the mob—plus his views on government/mob connections and reconciliation with family.
Guest backgrounds
Michael Franzese is a former Colombo family captain, once listed by Fortune (1986) among the “Top 50 Mob Bosses in America.” He later became a public speaker and author, describing himself as a man of faith who now works with athletes and entrepreneurs. The host (Sean) is the interviewer; no other guest is present.
Key claims
Franzese says his father was sentenced to 50 years when he was 16, and that he joined the mob to help his father. He claims the “books” were closed for new members until the mid-1970s, and his own “recruit period” lasted about two and a half years. He says he was targeted by law enforcement (multiple indictments, trials, RICO risk) and took a plea as an “exit strategy,” then faced a contract on his life. He argues informant/witness systems incentivize lying. He claims the government sometimes cooperated with mob figures (e.g., Kennedy/Ruby, Castro access).
Notable examples
Fortune’s 1986 list; the gasoline tax fraud (300+ gas stations; 18 licensed wholesale companies; peak “half a billion gallons” per month); his brother wearing a wire and later reconciliation; his endorsement of HBO’s 1996 Gotti as the most accurate mob film.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Impact of His Father's Sentence
1:05 to 3:00
Michael shares how his father's 50-year prison sentence shaped his life.
“My challenge to people all around the United States of America, can we learn to disagree again?”
Transforming Anger into Action
3:00 to 5:30
Discover how Michael's anger towards law enforcement led him into the mob life.
“and when he went in, at 50 on top of that, he'd never come out of prison alive.”
Becoming Part of the Colombo Family
5:30 to 7:40
Michael discusses his journey to becoming a member of the Colombo crime family.
“And I believed it was something that would help my dad.”
The Gas Tax Scheme Explained
7:40 to 9:50
Learn how Michael generated millions through a gasoline tax fraud scheme.
“My kids want to have a podcast or take over when I'm done.”
Accessing the Mob: How Deals Were Made
9:50 to 14:00
Michael details how individuals approached him with business proposals.
“And the irony in that is people think you come into that life and everybody's handing you money.”
Life in the Underworld: Misconceptions and Reality
14:00 to 18:00
Explore the misconceptions surrounding organized crime and the realities of mob life.
“so my name was known, and then I started to make a name for myself.”
Hollywood's Portrayal of the Mob
18:00 to 22:40
Discover how films depict the mob and the impact of those representations on public perception.
“So they don't come down on the cartels the way the government came down on the mob.”
Government and the Mob: A Complicated Relationship
22:40 to 28:00
Understand the historical interactions between the mob and government entities and their implications.
“So, you know, and he told me afterwards He said Michael it was only a matter of time before we got him or his brother.”
Life Decisions and Plea Bargain
28:00 to 29:25
Michael Franzese discusses his decisions during his mob life and the plea bargain he accepted.
“There was never going to be a situation where I'm going to live happily ever after if I remained in that life.”
FBI Pressure and Family Dynamics
29:55 to 33:19
Franzese recounts the FBI's pressure tactics and its impact on his family relationships.
“They put my name on the witness list of trials that were coming up in New York.”
Show all 35 chapters
Reconciliation and Understanding
33:19 to 38:29
Michael reflects on his relationship with his father and brother after significant life events.
“So you're coming at it with information, like you said, experience, like, okay, this is just business.”
Legacy and Family Loyalty
38:29 to 42:00
The conversation addresses family loyalty and the legacy left by Michael's father.
“you said you had one brother right is he still is he still alive he's still alive yeah and he he's addicted to drugs correct yeah 25 years hardcore drug addict is he still is he doing He's off now.”
Lessons from a Mobster's Father
42:00 to 44:30
Learn about the wisdom and life lessons shared between Michael Franzese and his father that shaped his understanding of loyalty and respect in the mob world.
“I said, what do we have to stand for this for, you know?”
Forgiveness and Accountability
44:30 to 48:08
Michael discusses the complexities of morality in his past life and the importance of forgiveness while being accountable for one's actions.
“These are amazing stories about your dad and your brother and I appreciate it and I know my audience is going to appreciate it too.”
The Impact of Social Media on Society
48:08 to 51:04
Explore the role of social media in today's political discourse and the resulting division in society.
“And that's what I believe, you know, because he knew my heart.”
Desire for Unity in Politics
51:04 to 54:48
The hosts discuss the need for a unifying political figure and the challenges of partisanship in America.
“It's not strong people in life you have to worry about.”
Misinformation and Media Challenges
54:48 to 56:00
Michael shares insights on the challenges posed by misinformation in social media and its effects on public perception and politics.
“So many people, Sean, they're working nine, 10 hours a day.”
The Dangers of Social Media
56:00 to 57:34
We'll discuss the impact of social media on information sharing and the lack of filters.
Meeting His Wife: A Love Story
57:34 to 59:35
Michael shares how he met his wife and the dynamics of their relationship during his mob life.
“around you met your wife right you know what did she see in a mob captain right at that point and and what was she not willing to deal with well she didn't see a mob captain initially she was 19 years old when I met her.”
Life in Prison and Relationships
59:35 to 1:01:32
Michael discusses his time in prison and how it affected his relationships with family and friends.
“So the eight years that I did in prison, we were married.”
Solitary Confinement: A Blessing in Disguise
1:01:32 to 1:02:40
Michael reflects on how being in solitary confinement may have saved his life during a gang war.
“not because I cooperated, not because I share information.”
Diesel Therapy: The Harsh Reality of Federal Prison
1:02:40 to 1:05:16
Exploring the experience of 'diesel therapy' and its psychological impacts on inmates.
“I said, oh my God, I don't want to be like a coward.”
The Value of Everyday Life After Prison
1:05:16 to 1:07:15
Michael shares his appreciation for simple experiences after being released from prison.
Unanswered Questions About His Past
1:07:15 to 1:09:11
Michael reflects on the questions he is often asked and discusses the fascination with violence in his past.
“I get out of prison, and I forget what movie me and my wife were going, but the line was around the corner.”
Morality and Violence: A Complex Discussion
1:09:11 to 1:10:00
A deep dive into the ethics of violence, both in war and organized crime.
“It's just, you know, there's, there's things that when people ask me questions or, you know, like, like, how, I wonder why they didn't ask me that.”
The Fascination with Violence
1:10:00 to 1:11:30
Exploring the public's intrigue with violent acts in organized crime.
“If you're killing somebody, you're killing somebody.”
Murder and Remorse
1:11:30 to 1:13:50
Discussing the implications of discussing murder and the nature of remorse.
“And they have immunity, obviously, for that.”
The Boundaries of Discussion
1:13:50 to 1:16:10
Examining the boundaries of discussing past actions and their impact.
“And I just don't think it's something that should be talked about.”
Cherishing Freedom
1:16:10 to 1:18:20
Reflecting on the value of freedom and the consequences of losing it.
“And let me tell you, I like Pierce Morgan a lot.”
Family Connections in Prison
1:18:20 to 1:20:40
The challenges of maintaining family relationships while incarcerated.
“And I wish that people understand how important that is and really not to let anybody in leadership take that away from us.”
Legacy and Selflessness
1:20:40 to 1:22:40
Discussing legacy, selflessness, and the impact on family.
Reflections on Relationships
1:22:40 to 1:24:00
Michael reflects on his past relationships and their complexities.
“everything you're saying is selfless man and that is obviously a compliment right for the audience I'm not saying selfish.”
Legacy and Family
1:24:00 to 1:25:16
Michael discusses his legacy and the importance of family relationships.
“comfortable that's really all it is you know Sean if I would ask you this what do you want your legacy to be in life I get asked that all the time I said look I don't want my name on a building.”
Determination and Delegation
1:25:16 to 1:27:02
Michael reflects on true determination and the importance of delegation in achieving success.
“They always say, you know, what would the wall say when you're not around?”
Enjoying the Conversation
1:27:02 to 1:28:06
The hosts share their appreciation for the engaging conversation and the learning experience.
“We got to be on top of AI because that's the future, but don't ask me about it.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00At Avocado, we know that not all mattresses are created equal. While other beds trap heat, ours sets it free. Made without polyurethane foams and crafted with natural latex, cotton, and wool. Wreathable, comfortable, and supportive. No overheating, just clean, organic sleep that performs. Save 15 % on our award-winning mattresses this July 4th sale. Avocado, celebrate organic. Shop at avocadomattress.com or leading retailers nationwide. I grew up hating law enforcement. I hated the government. I hated police because I saw them as the enemy and my dad as the hero. From the time I was three, four, five years old, my dad was surrounded by law enforcement.
0:42There's a misconception out there that mob guys sit in their social clubs and they think of the next business they're going to attack or defraud or win. the 1986 Fortune magazine top 50 mob bosses in America. The guy sitting next to me was on it. He's now a speaker, an author, a husband, a father. I want to welcome Michael Franzese to the show. My challenge to people all around the United States of America, can we learn to disagree again? We're fighting over things that are trivial compared to what you're talking about. And yet there was still reconciliation, respect, and no love lost. But yet there's people down on the streets.
1:20You know, the CIA, why would you trust that? Their job is to be dirty. Yeah, we've done something that nobody else can say that they did. You walked away publicly and there was a contract put on your life. You tell us that your dad approved the contract. How are you sitting here right next to me? Well.
1:41There's a list. In 1986, Fortune magazine, top 50 mob bosses in America. The guy sitting next to me was on it. In fact, he's the only one on that list that is alive or not in prison. His name is Michael Franzese. And one time he walked away from it, something that nobody is allowed to do, walk away publicly. And in fact, there was a contract put out on his life and it is rumored that his dad actually approved the contract. So we have a gentleman now who is here, is now a speaker, an author, a husband, a father, and he's giving back to athletes, giving back to entrepreneurs and speaking in many arenas, helping people with their lives.
2:26And we get the opportunity to talk to him today. So I want to welcome Michael Franzese to the show. Sean, thank you. Absolutely. So good to have you, man. Good to be here. I want to start at that moment, you know, 16 years old, young Michael, your dad is sentenced to 50 years in prison. Take me back to that room and what it actually did to you. It was crushing. because I love my dad. He was my idol, my hero, and just a great father. And to realize that he was what we figured would be a death sentence. He was 50 years old when he got sentenced, and when he went in, at 50 on top of that, he'd never come out of prison alive.
3:06So it was, you know, you have these defining moments in your life that just really have an impact on you, and this was one for me, a big one. What were some of the early feelings in that room when, you know, of course, you know, it, it changed the whole trajectory of your life, right? You were a pre-med track and, you know, you, you transitioned out from that and you went into the life, um, much to the, you know, objection from your father and, you know, you became, you know, one of the, you know, you're, you were the captain for the Colombo family, man. And, you know, generating$8 million a week in, in, in the, in the gasoline tax scheme and all that kind of stuff.
3:45But in that moment, what triggered you to be like, all right, I'm going to change what I'm doing now. I'm going to go into this life. Well, what happened, you know, you got to understand, I grew up hating law enforcement. I hated the government. I hated police because I saw them as the enemy and my dad is the hero. Because, you know, from the time I was three, four, five years old, my dad was surrounded by law enforcement. And, you know, I always looked at him as harassing him and harassing my family. I got it to many run-ins with them. So I was very resentful when my dad got sentenced and was going away because I believed he was innocent because he told me he was innocent.
4:24And if my dad said it, I believed it. And by the way, I believe that until this day, I'd stick my life on it. I'll take it to my grave. Um, so I was just really angry, resentful. Um, and I wanted to figure out a way to help my father because I understand it, Sean, I never aspired to be a mob guy. It's not what I was going. I was going to be a doctor. I was an athlete. You know, I played ball in school. My idol at that time, aside from my father, was Mickey Mantle. Oh, good one. I grew up loving Mickey Mantle. I'm a diehard Yankee fan until today. I don't miss a game. But, you know, that changed everything because now my father said to me, you're the man of the house.
5:02You know, you got to take care of your mother, your brothers and sisters. And I felt, you know, the weight of that in a way. And I wanted to do whatever was necessary to help him get out of prison because I thought he would die in there if I didn't. And, you know, I was at a meeting with him when he went in, in Leavenworth Penitentiary, we were in the visiting room. I had been highly influenced by Joe Colombo, who was the boss of our family. He was kind of my mentor when my dad went away. And he had started the Italian American Civil Rights League. And I believed it was something that would help my dad.
5:33So I was very active in it. And just one day I went in the visiting room and I said, Dad, I'm not going to school anymore. If I don't help you out, going to die in here and we had a bit of a discussion i would say about it and finally he threw his hands up because i was kind of a headstrong kid he knew my mind was made up and he said okay but if you're going to be on the street i want you on the street the right way and in his mind the right way is to become a member of his life so he proposed me for membership at that point and so what's that process look like you know is there a vetting process and you know yeah i mean you can't just go up to a guy in that life and say i'd like to join you know what do I have to do?
6:10Somebody has to propose you, you know, say you have what it takes. In my case, it was my dad, which there's a lot of nepotism in that life. And then he sent word downtown and the boss of the family at that time, Joe Colombo, had been shot and seriously wounded. I was with him when that happened. But Tom DiBella sat me down. He said, Mike, I got a message from your father. And is this what you want? I said, yes. And he said, from now on, you're on call to serve this family the colombo family 24 7 if you're by your mother's side and she's dying on her deathbed and we call you you leave your mother you come and serve us we're number one in your life and they said when and if we feel you deserve this privilege this honor to become a member we'll let you know so you're in kind of a recruit period until or unless your time is called when they figure okay you've earned it how long is that process or for yours specifically, I guess.
7:06Well, for me, it was two and a half years. For others, it could have been 20 years because there was a something going on then that the books were closed since the 50s. They weren't bringing in any new guys for security reasons. And then in the mid 70s, they opened the books. So there was guys waiting 20 years to become a made member. For me, it was two and a half years. Wow. Wow. You know, obviously, there's been things that I've heard that Sonny said to you that you didn't get it on your own merit it was a favor to your father do you ever think about that or you know is there any because you mentioned nepotism but at the same time from what you're describing it's like you earned it you you you put in your work and and then you got you know you were made and then you became the captain you gotta earn it look Joe Colombo had his kids brought in Carmine Persiglade his Gambino had his I mean it's just It's for security purposes you bring in a family member.
8:00They're not going to betray the life the old That's the thinking so no, I never thought of it that way There's people out there that they say what they say for whatever reasons, but you have to earn it no matter what you know, it's no gift to you and you got to earn it and you got to prove yourself and No, I appreciate that. I think with anything like you said, you know, if you're an actor, you know your kids they They have an inside track to to becoming an actor an actress But they also have to do the work and they have to be good at it for them to have a sustained period of success. My kids want to have a podcast or take over when I'm done.
8:32Well, yeah, that's the nepotism factor, right? But they got to be good or nobody will listen. Listen, you know, Frank Sinatra had kids and they tried to follow in his footsteps. And to a degree they did, but they're not Frank Sinatra. You know, you got to earn it. And I tell my kids the same thing. I say, listen, you know, I'm having some success right now. My name means something. It took me a lifetime to become an overnight success, right? That's how it goes But I want to open doors for you, but then it's up to you. You have to take advantage Nobody's gonna do it that for you. So it's not wrong for a father You know or family member to open a door for their children But then it's up to them agree.
9:10That's how life is We started talking about opening the door. I thought of brawny and lebron Yeah, you know what I mean? Like hey, he's there, but he's not lebron, right? And you have to perform to get that earned respect. So on Halloween, was it 1974? Halloween night, 1970. 50 years ago this past Halloween. 50 years. You took that blood oath, right? Yes. What did it actually feel like when the knife was cutting into your hand? For me, it was very exhilarating. You work hard to get there. And then when you finally get there, okay, I've made it. you know for me it was even more special because it was now I was I had an even greater bond with my dad and that meant a lot to me and then uh now the work starts you know because you know there was a thing the night we got made there was six of us that night and after we finished we went into a a room and we all had a banquet you know that's what Italians do we had wine we whatever and I'll never forget one of the soldiers came in and he had a brown bag paper bag and he brought it in and say, hey, boss, should I give them all that bag of money now?
10:18And the irony in that is people think you come into that life and everybody's handing you money. Just the opposite. You come into that life, you're expected to hand up. And the boss said that that night. Tom said, hey, don't expect any handouts here. You guys got to earn your keep both on the street and what you bring into the family. And so I got it that night. I understood it. Yeah, and you generated a lot of money and revenue for the Colombo family. I mean, most notably the tax scheme, the gas tax scheme. Can you explain that to me? Because I'm not in that life. I don't know what any of that means.
10:52I mean, how does a man generate$8 million a week? Well, you know, Sean, there's a misconception out there that mob guys sit in their social clubs and they think of the next business they're going to attack or defraud or whatever. And that doesn't happen quite often. But normally, it's somebody from the inside of a company, whatever, that comes to you with a scheme to defraud their own company. And that happened to me several times because I was kind of the guy out there. My name was out there, especially on Long Island and certain parts of Brooklyn. So people would come to me all the time. Hey, I got this deal.
11:26I got that deal, whatever. And then you pick and choose. And so a guy comes to me, and he's got a small operation, a gas company. And he was actually being shook down by a couple of guys from, I think it was the Genovese crew. So he came to me for help. They were extorting him for money. And after turning him away a few times, he was very persistent. And he came to me and he said, Mike, I have the germ of an idea. He said, I know you don't like the government. I said, no, I don't. He said, well, I think we can make some money with the government. I said, how? He said, with tax money. And he had the germ of an idea.
12:00So I said, OK. So I got rid of the two guys that were bothering him. I made them go away. And we went into business together. And basically, we devised a scheme to defraud the government at a tax on every gallon of gasoline. It was us who were doing it. The Russians were kind of doing it, you know. But we perfected it. We perfected the scheme. And for about eight years, I ran an operation where we had a number. I had over 300 gas stations we either owned or operated. I had 18 companies that were licensed to collect the tax they were wholesale companies and they were all from Panama created a scheme out of Panama and at the height of my operation was selling a half a billion gallons of gas a month and we're taking down 30 to 40 cents a gallon whatever the market would bear at the time so we're making a lot of money and I will say this Sean it was the biggest money-making operation in my view since the days of prohibition because contrary to what people believe we were not big drug dealers we weren't allowed to deal with drugs guys that were doing it were doing it on the side of sneak we were not the cartel by any means and that wasn't a major source of income so um but the gas tank thing was big it was very big it sounds like it you know and and my question to you is how does one come up to someone like you and be like hey i need your help i got an idea it's like how does someone have access to that?
13:26Did you know them or how does that work? At Avocado, we know that not all mattresses are created equal. While other beds trap heat, ours sets it free. Made without polyurethane foams and crafted with natural latex, cotton, and wool. Wreathable, comfortable, and supportive. No overheating, just clean organic sleep that performs. Save 15 % on our award-winning mattresses this July 4th sale. Avocado, celebrate organic. Shop at avocadomattress.com or leading retailers nationwide. You know, again, my dad had a big name on Long Island, so my name was known, and then I started to make a name for myself.
14:06So people would come up to me all the time. How do I get to, you know, through a friend, through an associate. It got to a point where I had a place that every Monday night on Long Island, if you wanted to come and speak to me about something, this was the spot. So Monday night, we basically had a line of people that would come in. Hey, I got a deal. I want to do this. I want to do that. And you, you pick and choose. Wow. So this guy came to me at that, during one of those meetings. And originally I chased him because I did my investigation on him and he had testified in a civil matter against former governor, you carry.
14:38So I was, nah, this guy testified. I don't want to deal with him, but he was persistent. He kept coming back. He was an Italian guy. And finally I said, okay, When he said the government thing I said all right, he's got my attention Yeah, so it's so interesting man. It's uh, you know, it's super interesting to me because I've never I mean, you're the first one I've ever met, you know, I I'm not from that life I don't know anything about it. I would imagine it would be scary to come up and talk to somebody about this stuff Yeah Based on what you see in the movies, right? But yeah, how much of this how much of that stuff is actually what goes on?
15:12Well, it depends what movie, you know, I mean, they get it. They get it part right because the characters are portrayed right. But the storyline isn't always that way. You know, they try to intensify it. You know, like Goodfellas. There was basis of fact in that. But they try to, you know, enhance things a little bit. You know, we get a bad rap a lot of times in the movies. I have to say that. But, you know, I'm not knocking the movies. Some of them were brilliant. I tell people all the time. It's not a documentary. It doesn't have to go, you know, fact. Just enjoy the movie. It's entertainment, right?
15:46It's for dollars, right? It's entertainment. Get people in the theaters, make some money. Yeah. In your opinion, what's the most accurate film? Okay, this is something I've been saying for years, and both Paramount Pictures and Armand DeSante, they've been thanking me for years. The most accurate movie, okay, most accurate, was HBO's Gotti movie in 1996 with Armand DeSante and Anthony Quinn. Very accurate. Tremendously well acted. It's my favorite movie of all time. I've seen that one a long time ago. It's terrific. It's really good. Yeah. And Armand and I became very good friends as a result of that.
16:21Me plugging that movie all the time. So it was very accurate. Goodfellas to a degree. Donnie Brasco to a degree. You know, great films. And the characters are portrayed well. Doesn't mean the storyline is always accurate, but portrayed well. You know, you get that all the time though, right? It doesn't matter what. I interviewed someone last year Marcus and Morgan Luttrell and Marcus was the lone survivor Redwings they made a movie about it right looks right mark Wahlberg playing in the movie and there's a bunch of people come out saying That that's not an accurate depiction of what happened. It's Hollywood right on a documentary Thank you, you know, so it's it's about expectations versus reality, right?
16:59Like we're telling people have to understand you go in a movie to be entertained and to see a good story if you want to see a documentary what a go read a book or you know go watch it on uh you know netflix or wherever they post even though they're not always right either no they're not there's there's always slanted right yeah like every every um i'd say every documentary has their own slant because it's depending on who's telling the story that's right right you've got like making a murderer do you remember that one yes yeah it's like if you watch that documentary like dude that guy's so innocent yes but you don't know because you don't know the whole story right yeah super interesting you mentioned uh a few minutes ago about the big the biggest misconception is people think that we were running drugs and you know you're saying that we're not allowed to we are the cartel you know i've i've read some things of you saying that the the underworld isn't it's a shadow of what it used to be but the cartels aren't what part of the whole evolution scares you about that well understand something with the cartels mexican cartels, even in Colombia, the government is in cahoots with them to a degree.
18:03There's no question about that. So they don't come down on the cartels the way the government came down on the mob. We don't, we don't work with the government. Let me, let me make that very clear. The government came to us on certain occasions. They came to us with Kennedy. They came to us with, you know, during the Cuban missile crisis when they wanted to assassinate Castro. They came to us. They came to Luciano during World War II when they needed access, the Allies did, to come into Sicily. So they've come to us on occasion when it's served their purpose. There's a new movie coming out with Mark Wahlberg about Greg Scarpa's involvement, getting the civil rights, doing that civil rights deal back in Mississippi in the 60s.
18:49There was four guys that were murdered, four black guys were murdered, and the FBI couldn't find out who, and there was a big uproar here. where they enlisted one of us to go down there and to find out who killed these guys. And Greg Scarpa found out. He basically beat the hell out of a Ku Klux Klan guy and they gave up the actual murderers. So they've come to us when it's convenient, but it's more convenient for them to come down on us. So they came down on us. The government in Mexico don't do that with the cartels because they're almost as powerful as the government, these people. They have their own army.
19:23So it's different in that regard. And look, I was told the night I was proposed and sat with the boss. He told me, if you deal with drugs in our family, you die. I know people in our family that dealt with drugs and died. One of my best friends, he was a soldier under me. I was his captain. He blew his brains out in a phone booth because he got caught in a drug deal and he was afraid they were going to kill him. So he killed himself. Guy I knew my whole life. Afraid the family was going to. Yeah. Okay. And he might have gotten killed. Yeah. Because you can't violate that rule. But so I need people to understand that.
19:59And I always get beat up when I say it. Well, Vito Genovese was a big drug dealer. Yes, he was. That was in the 60s. It was outlawed after that. Were guys doing it on the side? Yeah. I mean, they're street guys. They're going to hustle and make a few bucks. But we were not anywhere near the same level as cartels. Yeah. It's interesting. You talked about the government, right? And you had mentioned Castro. like i i remember i did a show a while back and it there was a movie coming out about castro and it was about the specific time that he went to new york city and there was a contract on his life so that's interesting right because that's government assisted right they they came to you guys about that yeah oh yeah that's so interesting that's a fact yeah no i i one one billion percent believe you what did they come to you guys about kennedy for well there's different theories as to why kennedy was assassinated it wasn't oswald 100 a lone killer that just didn't like kennedy 100 no question that jack ruby was tied up with the mob one of the reasons why i don't believe anything in that in that uh warren report was the warrant yeah the warrant commission is because they said in the commission that jack ruby had nothing to do with the mob jack ruby was totally mobbed up from chicago to louisiana totally mobbed up he was some partners with us and they used him to kill oswald why did we want to get involved very simple because we handed the election to john f kennedy we handed illinois to him razor thin uh between him and nixon at that time they needed illinois to bring kennedy over the over the hump to become president.
21:43We delivered it. And the deal with Joe Kennedy was that they were going to back off of us. What happened? Robert Kennedy, when he became the attorney general, he came on to us even stronger. Went after Hoffa and a lot of our guys. I believe he's the guy that put my father in jail. It was Kennedy. So we were very upset. And when they came to us for help, we agreed and we gave him Ruby to get rid of Oswald. Why was Kennedy killed? You know, he hated he hated the cia because of the bay of pigs. He was going to eliminate the cia And I believe I don't know this for a fact But I believe it was a cia operative that came to us with definitely a government agent I didn't know who it was at the time But I heard that so often from my father and from guys in the life and you gotta understand sean We don't brag about things like that.
22:32Yeah, we keep it quiet So for me to hear that from different people that were in the know at that time I'll never forget when Kennedy got killed in 63 I was outside On my porch with a couple of friends and I went in the house because it was all over that He would got killed and my mother was practically in tears and my father looked at me So what are you crying about that rat deserved everything he got? My father was a higher-up at that time. So, you know, and he told me afterwards He said Michael it was only a matter of time before we got him or his brother. Wow. Yeah, wow That that's that's crazy and i'll tell you this the classified documents i believe one of the main reasons they don't release those classified documents is because it will show the connection between ruby and us number one and the u.s government doesn't ever want the world to know that a sitting president was able to be killed by the mob wow yeah that's my theory and i believe it's right that's why every time they're going to release him they put a stop on it even trump was going to release them put a stop on it.
23:34Why shouldn't we know this 63 years later? There's a lot of things that we should know that we probably will never know, right? Exactly. We were talking off air about COVID and everything like that. We'll never really know. No. Right? We'll never know. Hey, we'll never know who really killed Charlie Kirk. You know, there's a lot of people saying that Tyler Robinson didn't do it. You know, I don't know. I don't know either. But listen to, you know, hey, Epstein, the same thing. Yeah. When they don't want us to know something, we're not going to know. That's a wild one for me. That's a wild one for me, man.
24:05Sean, I'm telling you, as I'm sitting here, if somebody said, would you bet your life on this? I was in the exact cell that he was in. I did seven months in MDC. In that cell. There's no way he committed suicide. He couldn't. It wouldn't be possible. He'd have to be a midget. Because there's nothing to hang yourself by, number one. A midget. No, I'm serious. There's nothing to hang yourself by in that cell. Cameras off. The guards fell asleep. all this stuff but here's what really did it for me aside from all of that then i find out that the fbi was right across the street they're building it took them seven hours to come over and investigate after they heard he was killed this is the most important inmate in the system and they take seven hours to come over and investigate they knew what was going down that's wild to me and you know it's a great point i was even thinking just about the release of the documents the unredacted names you know they keep talking about we're going to bring them out and they don't you're not going to bring it out no i think everything would collapse not going to bring it out i mean look this guy had look it's very simple he had a lot of dirt on important people why would they trust him hey if i'm going to jail for 20 years other guys are going to go down with me that happens every day why would they trust him yeah you know it's amazing to hear these stories because there's a whole world out there that most of us, I think maybe 99.9 % of the population doesn't even know exists.
25:34No. You know, it's kind of surreal, to be quite honest with you. It is, you know, but when you're on the street, you know, you question everything, the motives of everything. You know, it doesn't look right, it doesn't sound right. You know, not that we're creating theories or conspiracy theories, it just doesn't sound right. And I say that out of experience. not out of oh you know i'm just thinking that way it's experience i mean look most people in government are on a level a good portion of people in the fbi they're on the level they do their job and you can't throw a blanket over everybody it's not right but there are people that you know that do the wrong thing and they do it quite a bit and you know the cia why would you trust them i mean come on their job is to be dirty yeah their job is to be unethical their job is to go outside of the barriers of the law that's their job they get away with it they're allowed to do it so why wouldn't they call in a mob to kill somebody come on it's it's but it's mind-blowing to me right and and i'm sure you can appreciate that no it should be and you know in a massive way i'm like dang this is really cool i'm getting to sit here with you and talk to you because i i never thought in a million years i would be sitting with somebody that was in that life not only that was one of the bosses right the most you have five powerful families in new york city it's it's a pretty it's a pretty cool thing to do you know but you've done something that nobody else can say that that they did you walked away publicly man you walked away publicly and there was a contract put on your life and it's rumored i don't know if it's true i'd let you tell us that your dad approved the contract how are you sitting here right next to me well you know there are a lot of reasons for that remember there's no blueprint for walking away from that life publicly not entering witness protection program and live to tell about it unless somebody was you're in their 80s and 90s and they retired and went off to phoenix or whatever it doesn't happen but here's here's the bottom line i i became a major target of law enforcement from the minute I got involved in the life.
27:49Major. I had seven indictments. I had two federal racketeering cases, one state racketeering case, one brought on by Rudy Giuliani. I had undercover investigations on me. I went to trial five times. What does all this mean? There was never going to be a situation where I'm going to live happily ever after if I remained in that life. Too high profile. Even though I was beating all those cases. I beat five cases. Beat five. But you're gonna your time is gonna run out and when it runs out you're getting a hundred years under the RICO statute You're not getting 10. You're not getting 15 which anybody can do getting a hundred years a lot of time Like so many of my friends.
28:29So I saw that and I said look I'm not gonna destroy my family. I have an opportunity after I beat the last case I have an opportunity to get out Because the government wanted me and I kept beating them and so I took a plea on a case they wanted a conviction on me. I took a plea, 10 year sentence,$15 million restitution, 5 million of forfeitures. And I said, I'm going to use this as my exit strategy. After I get out of jail, I'm going to move out to California with my new wife. I'll have parole and probation. I can use that as an excuse not to meet anybody in New York and I'll live happily ever after in California.
29:06That was my plan. Of course, it didn't work out that way, right? Because it became big news that I walked away and yeah, my former boss, Carmine Persico, took it very personal, contract on my life because Sean, all these guys thought that I was going to cooperate with the government and start putting people away. They didn't get it. At Avocado, we know that not all mattresses are created equal. While other beds trap heat, ours sets it free. Made without polyurethane foams and crafted with natural latex, cotton and wool. Wreathable, comfortable and supportive. No overheating, just clean, organic sleep that performs.
29:44Save 15 % on our award-winning mattresses this July 4th sale. Avocado, celebrate organic. Shop at avocadomattress.com or leading retailers nationwide. And I kept sending messages to my dad. Dad, don't listen to them. Because the FBI did me very dirty. They put my name on the witness list of trials that were coming up in New York. And everybody was seeing that. But I had no intention of coming in, none. They put a lot of pressure on me. They put me in solitary. They put me on diesel therapy. They were doing all this stuff with me, right? But I kept telling them, don't believe it. It's not happening.
30:18But everybody says that. And then you end up being a witness. So, I mean, this is a long story. But when the FBI came to me and they said, listen, contract on your life. We got word from your informants. You're not going to live through this, Mike. Cooperate with us. Your father went along with the contract. We have proof. and I told him I said look let me worry about my father did my father go along yes because when he thought I was going to cooperate he's got to worry about himself too all right if my son did that that's the wrong thing and what am I going to do you know it was that kind of thing would he ever put a gun to my head no no no I don't believe that one bit and I we've talked about me and him afterwards you know and he said you believe I would ever do that I said no dad but I believe that you hurt me i said i'm telling you right now because we had an incident that my dad did not do the right thing sean as far as i'm concerned and it it did put a little bit of a what could i say they put a blemish on our relationship and this was a night i got walked into a room i didn't know if i was going to walk out my dad was not helpful wow you know and uh so that hurt but i still love my dad and everything and I he would have never put a gun to my head but you know when it became apparent because all these trials are coming up and I never show up I never show up so finally they said okay and then I'll tell I can reveal this I've said it once before there was a guy that turned uh informant that implicated me in five murders the FBI came to me when I was in prison again.
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31:58I was three months before I was coming home. And I said, you're either going to cooperate with us or we're going to indict you for the five murders. I said, the guy's a liar. Take your best shot. So I sent word back and here's what finally did it for me. Again, I said, listen, I got a visit from the FBI. Here's what's coming down. If I cooperate, I'm going to put everybody away. I said, because I'm a good witness. I told him just like that. I'm not going to cooperate. I just want to be left alone. Let me live my life. Not going to hurt anybody. That's what did it for everybody. And my father sent that word back very strong is, hey, my son is not going to hurt anybody.
32:37Come on. He would have done it already. And when I wouldn't go along with this guy, fine. But now I had to worry about an indictment, even though he's a liar. But what happens? This is how I know there's a God. This guy lied so bad that the government threw him out of the witness protection program, threw him out. Wow. He lied on so many cases. Wow. So all his testimony went in the garbage, and he's still out trying to do things. He's a bad guy. Just made things up. Sean, I'm going to tell you this. I have never, never, ever seen a cooperating witness, an informant, in mob life, get on the witness stand, left hand on a Bible, right hand, swear to tell the truth, and lie through their teeth.
33:18it's the worst system when guys are facing life in prison and you're giving them an open door plus you're giving them money plus you're giving them a new identity putting them some of course they have every incentive to lie they're gonna sing of course they're gonna not only sing they're gonna lie because they're gonna help themselves the government don't care if you're lying as long as you don't get caught in a lie because you're building their case it's a bad system i sat once with uh on this jubilee i sat in front of 20 cops and we talked about the witnesses you know protection paying these government informants and they not one of them can answer me properly i said don't tell me these guys don't have incentive to lie i said they're street guys yeah you're giving them money you're giving them a new identity and you're telling them you don't go to prison of course they're gonna lie they can hide out forever and be okay so many of them do so that's the problem it's so interesting when you we talked about your father before we started recording and he was your idol right the only other idol was mickey mantle right right guy he was a stud that was a stud greatest player how how easy was it for you guys to reconcile after the contract was put out you know because because you speak very highly of your father.
34:34And there's no world I know other than your world now that can get word that their father approved something like that, and then have the understanding of the pressure that your father was under and understanding his perspective of why he may have approved that, right? So you're coming at it with information, like you said, experience, like, okay, this is just business. But how long did it take you to repair that? You know, we reconciled. My father was upset with me because even prior to this, there was an incident. Like I said, I got walked into a room and my father did not support me at that time to the degree that he should have.
35:18He kind of washed his hands of things that hurt more than anything else because I was still part of the life. And I said, man, if this life can separate me and my father, what do we really have here? it really was troublesome to me but I write and I never even said anything to my dad about it never when I wrote my first book it was my autobiography I was really challenged as to whether I would put this in the book but it was so significant in my life that I had to when my dad read the book afterwards and he called me he said do you believe this I said dad I know it's true it's not a question of whether I believe it or not I know you didn't support me that night I know it I says yeah and it hurt I said but I still love you yeah you know I I love you so we he denied it until he died denied it but I knew it was true I knew for a fact it was true so did we reconcile yes was it exactly the same no it wasn't fully the same because I was you know another thing that that trouble be about my father and please I don't want people listening I love my dad till this moment.
36:26I wish he was still here until he died. I still had good times with him. But after my dad, my dad was released from prison three times on parole. He was violated five times, kept going back. He did 40 years on the 50. After his third time, I said to him, Dad, you can't make it in New York. Come down to Florida, come out to California. You don't have to worry about anything. everything's taken care of get out of new york because our family is falling apart they're falling apart my mother's a basket case my brother's a junkie my other sister a junkie you got to repair the family well he didn't want to do it and he said to me none of this is my fault i said what do you mean it's not your fault he said well i was framed i said i know dad but you weren't framed because you were a doctor a lawyer a priest you know this is what they do they frame us we get it at times you know you you have to get away from it and he wouldn't do it and he wouldn't accept responsibility and that bothered me yeah and my family was destroyed destroyed really we had a very tough lifestyle it was destroyed and fortunately i came out of it but my brother didn't come out of it well my sister dies of an overdose my other sister dies young my mother was a basket case until she died 33 years without her husband.
37:47So I was upset with him over that. But again, never to the degree where this was still my dad. I still gave him all my respect. You know, my dad did a lot of good for me. He taught me things that I cherish until today. The advice he gave me was better than any advice I've ever gotten. So I love my dad for that. But it was very difficult. This life is just so tough, you know when it gets in the way of things and but that's what i said i said you know what i'm not going to do this to my family yeah no way i don't want to betray anybody i don't want to hurt anybody i'm not mad at anybody but i'm not going to continue you said you had one brother right is he still is he still alive he's still alive yeah and he he's addicted to drugs correct yeah 25 years hardcore drug addict is he still is he doing He's off now.
38:40He's doing okay. Yeah. Are you guys cool or is there? We're cool now. Unfortunately, my brother went into a bad phase in his life. He cooperated with the government. He wore a wire on your dad. He wore a wire. Yeah. He wore a wire, which was very upsetting. And I didn't speak to my brother for 10 years. 70th birthday, my wife invites him to my birthday. Oh, boy. We reconcile. I love my brother. Yeah. I love my brother. We got close again for now. You know, Sean, honestly, when he and I sat down after all of this, excuse me, I said, bro, what's up? He explained things to me that I never got. Like what?
39:26I never realized just how damaging he was and how this turbulence in our family really affected him and my sisters. I don't know why, as I sit here, for some reason I was blessed and I was able to deal with it. That doesn't make me a hero or anything. I just was able to deal with it. But those kids could not. And so they went in all different directions. And he told me how hurt and how devastated he was over so many things that happened. Wow. And I kind of got it. You understood his perspective. I understood his perspective. Yeah. And even though I didn't agree, I said, bro, I'm not agreeing with what you did.
40:02That was still our father. And I'm not agreeing with it. But I understood and he told me some of the circumstances. I even spoke to the FBI agent that basically turned him later on. We're friends now. I guess I'm glad to say we're friends. So he explained certain things to me and I was listening. So I love my brother. He's coming out to stay with me in August. Yeah, he was a good kid that just got destroyed with this life. He was a good kid. And now he's I really appreciate the way he's come out of things. I really do. He's a good boy. That's amazing How old is he now? Well, he's a good boy. He's nine years younger than me.
40:43So okay in his 60s Okay, so he's he's uh He's 66 66. Yeah, I'm terrible. He was born in 1960 terrible at math. Yeah I'm pretty good at it. It's not it's not my strength Yeah You have to be to track all that money. Well, we never we never wrote anything down. I'd always had a stay in a head Oh my gosh. So it's, so from, from having that conversation with the brother and becoming friends with the FBI agent, can you deduce the fact that your brother just wanted the life to stop so he can be at peace? Yeah. I feel for what he did now. I have to say, bro, I can never agree with it, but I get it. I understand it.
41:21And I'm not even going to, I'm not holding it against you, you know? Cause I, like I said, I love my brother. I mean, you know, my dad taught us to be a loving family, believe it or not. We, you know, family was everything. Family was everything. As a matter of fact, I had a call with my brother from Vegas two weeks ago. And he said to me, bro, I got to ask you something because he now wants to come on my podcast. He said, I want to get some things out. I said, bro, if you're ready, I'm ready. We'll do it. He said, do you believe that dad would have ever killed you? He said to me, and I said, no, I don't.
41:54He said, well, I'm so glad because dad once told me this is what he's told i've never said this before it just happened he said dad told once told me son we got to be ready to go to war because we don't kill our own i said well you know what i believe that and i'm happy to hear that he said because my brother's a tough kid he's not he was a street kid he's not a pushover in any way he said uh you know if we have to go to war we'll go to war he said and and your brother knows that meaning me and i said you didn't know that right initially no yeah but after we had the conversation yes yeah yeah then I said okay dad you know because I I was a my dad calmed me down I was very upset with the family I was ready to go to war because my dad after he my dad was a stand-up my dad you could put ice picks in his eyes throw him out the window he is never going to cooperate never his legend in his life meant too much for him right never gonna cooperate so what happens after the uh one of his violations my dad was a captain they broke him they made him a soldier and I said dad how the heck did he do that to you you're the most stand-up guy in this life period I said how does person go do that to you oh I said no no no we got to deal with this I had a big crew my dad had a lot of respect I I said, let's go.
43:19Let's take it on. He said, son, bide your time. Just relax. Don't worry about it. This was a diplomatic. Because you know what? They felt we were getting too strong. I had a big crew. My dad still had a lot of respect. I'm a captain now. I said, what do we have to stand for this for, you know? He said, if you listen to me, one day you're going to be the boss of this family. That's what he wanted for me. And he was kind of engineering it. and but i was i was ready to say they can't do that to you wow i was really hurt by that by that you know angry really but he calmed it down and no we don't do that don't worry about it bide your time you know you know he used his head where i was getting a little little crazy over he threw that wisdom on you baby oh yeah yeah he sure did i don't do anything stupid listen my dad taught me how to survive in that life everything he told me was right on point as to how to deal with the life and the one thing I will say about myself, I'm a good listener.
44:17If I think you have something proper to say, I'm listening. I don't care how old you are, who you are, where you came from because I like to learn and my dad, I knew he was wise. I knew he knew that life. I listened and it really helped me in many, many situations. These are amazing stories about your dad and your brother and I appreciate it and I know my audience is going to appreciate it too. Well, I've never said this before, I'll be honest. That right there to me is an honor. You know, it's context, right? And everything that you're talking about is giving context to your life within the family, but also your family family that, you know, from your brother's perspective and your sister's perspective is like, it unraveled.
44:57And like you said, your mom was a basket case for 33 years without her husband until she passed, right? So there's a lot of undercurrent going on. And it's just nice to hear the stories. And it's nice to hear the fact that you and your brother have reconciled. You guys are spending time together. And that you didn't hold on to things with your dad. You guys moved through it. And my challenge to everybody who's watching or listening and to people all around the United States of America, can we learn to disagree again? Because think about it. think about it like everything going on in the climate out there the environment i mean we're fighting over things that are trivial compared to what you're talking about and yet there was still reconciliation respect and no love lost but yet you know there's people down on the streets you know you know what sean i am uh i'm a very forgiving guy just my nature and again when i'm saying this, I'm not throwing bouquets at myself.
46:00I'm just telling you, I'm just a very, I like to see good in people. I've just been that way most of my life. You know, I was telling my, my future son-in-law, this, this, I'm going to give you something that applies to almost everything. We had a situation where somebody was supposed to pay some money. And I said, remember this, Tyler, the worst payers are always the best collectors. Cause they know they don't pay anybody they figure everybody's going to treat them the same way worst payers best collectors the people that are so judgmental okay they're the last ones that want to be judged don't criticize them don't judge them but they're ready to judge you in a minute so you can apply that to almost anything the worst of this is always the best of that you know so you know i listen i did a lot of bad things in my life.
46:52There's no question. There were times in that life that I had to do things that I was very uncomfortable with, but I did them anyway. So you got to be held accountable for that. You can't make an excuse. Well, you know, I, but, but here's another thing I want to make clear. When I tell people that I had a lot of good friends in that life, guys that I really loved and cared about. And even my wife sometime will say, come on, Mike. And I said, no, no, no, You got to understand something. There's an old thing. Why do good people do bad things? It doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Their behavior is bad.
47:27They have to be accountable for it. There's no excuses, but that doesn't make them a bad person. I believe that I'm sitting here with you because God knows my heart. Even when I did something wrong, he knew my heart. And, you know, there comes a time when you say, okay, you know what? I did the wrong thing. And you admit it. And you don't have to admit it to the world, but you admit it to where it's appropriate when it needs to be done. And you, how could I say it? You benefit from that. Everybody says I should be dead or in prison for the rest of my life. And you know what? Maybe I should. Maybe.
48:04Maybe they're right. Maybe I should. But for some reason, I'm not. I'm here. Well, you know, God's undefeated. And that's what I believe, you know, because he knew my heart. He knew what I wanted. And he knows what kind of person I am on the inside. I mean, you know, I'm a forgiving guy because I know what I did in my life and I've been forgiven. So, you know, I try to treat people the same way, but not everybody's like that. Yeah. Not every. And that's the problem we have today. Social media. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Tell me about it, man. It's become a garbage pail. Really. It's a dumpster fire. A dumpster.
48:39It is a freak. Misinformation. Treachery from people. you know come out i could be talking about the man in the moon and people who don't like me because i support president trump has nothing to do with the conversation or anything else but they because they have such hatred within them i've never i've never experienced in my life and i'm saying a lot the amount of hatred against donald trump you would think he was a mass murderer a serial killer a pedophile and every other thing under the sun what the heck well how many attempts on his life have been that's what i'm saying what two years it's a bit you don't like the guy don't vote for him whatever but the hatred you have for him like he's the worst evil person on the world i i don't get it but it's something in the air with people that the anger yeah you know it's interesting you say that you know because we don't talk about politics much on the show but i'm always able and willing to give perspective right i think everything going on both sides right it's it's become too amped up right you can like the president you don't i remember back in the day if someone didn't like the president they're like you know i just don't like him period you know i just i don't really like his policies i don't like this i didn't vote for him end of story and it was always the the topic at dinner that you didn't want to bring up right it was exactly you know it was like money and politics you just don't bring it up right and but now now it has become
50:07so how can i put this it's become so violent because you don't like somebody because maybe you don't like the way he speaks or maybe he's not articulate enough and he i mean dude he does say a lot of things that get people to go what the hell did you just say like absolutely but does he deserve to die for it no he does not right and and i can say the same thing for for joe biden right there was a lot of people ripping on him constantly it's like guys like whoever's there it's the president of the united states there's there's to me there's a certain regard you hold for that position right you don't have to like them you know you don't have to support them but you're american and you're here sure i'm going to tell you what it is no doubt people on the top.
50:53No doubt. It's the love of money, the love of power. That's what it is. These people do not want to give up their status or their position. You know, I always say this in life. It's not strong people in life you have to worry about. Strong people have confidence in themselves. They know what they can do. It's weak people given power that they really can't handle. and we have too much of that too much of that and the rhetoric that comes out it trickles down to people normal people and they're hearing it from the top from their alleged leaders you know and and it becomes so venomous yeah these are the people that caused all of this stuff with any politician you know i hear you're in trump's pocket what pocket what are you talking 75 years oh, I don't need to be in anybody's market, number one.
51:43Number two, I don't know the guy. I have nothing to do with him. Yeah, I interviewed people around him and his kids and all that stuff, but I either like somebody's policies or I don't. I don't care what the guy's last name is. If I agree with your policies, that's what I'm supposed to do, you know, in making a choice for any candidate, any president. I either go with your policies or I don't. That's nothing personal. I'm not inviting you to dinner. You're not dating my daughters. None of that stuff. do you have a policy that i agree with period yeah but the bottom line is you can't even have this conversation anymore no you can't it's very sad no very sad you know in fact i'm sure you know the trolls will come out on this part of the episode and start it's okay and i'm fine with it i'm fine with it because to me it's open dialogue it's discourse it's it's conversation it's it's very i'm i'm curious right as to why we're in this climate right now and you know i guess you can you can point to social media and listen we're not even talking politics right now we're just talking the general mood of the country sure how it's so divisive sure and i wish i wish we had somebody republican democrat independent that was so charismatic that people just really had confidence in that could try to bring this country together again because that's what it's really all about it's really sad that there's such division and i don't like it i don't think anybody really likes it unless you're crazy and you just want to cause trouble but does that person exist i don't know i i have one hope for the people listening and watching is that they hang on to that what you just said you don't care if it's a republican democrat independent that is powerful and that's where americans should be i don't care who it is i don't care what party i care what it is but can you can you bring the country back together again can you can can we just get rid of these riots can we get rid of the killing can we get rid of the there's the toxicity that is just clearly palpable in the air in america like to me that's what's important you know and so i really appreciate that you said that because that's where i'm at where i sit is what's best for america like who can come in and fix this it please come and do it 100 i don't i don't care if you're i don't care if you're far left and you come in and you fix this country and you have good policies and you're a capitalist democrat whatever don't care okay don't care man we don't care about the label just do the job right you know we are the the country hires the presidency that's right by way of voting and that person is supposed to be doing what's best for the country now you know i'm not saying that he's not i i don't i don't have all the information i'm just a civilian man right but i i just my whole point of this rant is what you said was so powerful and so true to who you are as a human being that most a lot of people if they are a democrat or they are republican no matter what the candidate is you have to side with that candidate and you have to hate the other one that's a cult to me yeah that's sad bro it's sad because you become robotic at that point it's just oh yeah you know and you cannot i look at it this way you myself maybe we have the call it a luxury of being in touch with what's going on in the world in the news.
55:13So many people, Sean, they're working nine, 10 hours a day. They're putting food on their table. They're taking care of their kids. They don't have time to get so involved in the political scene. So I've been a Democrat all my life. I vote Democrat. I've been a Republican. I vote Republican. They don't really know. And then there's so much misinformation out there between social media and the media. We got to, the media is not what it should be anymore in this country. They don't report properly. So you can't blame people. You know, you can't blame people for not maybe voting the way they should the way they really believe inside because they just oh okay i'm a democrat or i'm a republican or whatever and i feel bad because the economy is tough you know people are struggling we get it so they don't know they don't have the right information then you go on social media there's so much misinformation it's terrible i don't believe anything i see no no i gotta triple check it yeah it's uh you gotta be very careful what you believe um we're seeing on social media the one thing to me is i don't know you you probably you probably remember this but like remember on instagram or facebook you used to have to push play to watch the video yeah now it just fires right at you man it's just like bam in your face yeah it's like once you see something like we saw in september yeah you know what i'm talking about yeah you know what i'm talking about yeah that should have never made the internet that should have been taken down as soon as it was posted no one needs to see that you know and and but now free reign baby yeah put it on there there's there's there's no checks and balances nobody's watching this information that algorithm should have kicked that out immediately right because somewhere there was probably a 10 year old kid looking at the phone yeah like they shouldn't have been but they're looking at the phone maybe scrolling through daddy's feed and then boom saw what happened i saw it and i was mortified and i'm a 47 year old man i know you know it it's just like there's just like my point is there's no filter anymore you used to have to go out of your way to to take an action to watch something and there was a warning now it's like oh yeah there he is he's talking again boom i just think it's um i know no it's really sad it's scary man um um to see all of it but anyway so let's let's get back to to you you know you're in prison a lot of solitary confinement and a guard handed you a bible and your life was completely turned around you met your wife right you know what did she see in a mob captain right at that point and and what was she not willing to deal with well she didn't see a mob captain initially she was 19 years old when I met her.
57:58We dated, I would say, for 18 months until we got married. She's 21. She lived in Anaheim, California. She didn't know anything about the mob, really. And as she got to understand what I was all about, what she saw was a guy that really loved her, was very kind to her, and took care of her. And that was it. Yeah. And I do that until this day because she's my wife and she deserves that. You know, she's a tremendous woman. She waited for me eight years. She's been through hell and back with me. And, you know, I believe, and this might be controversial, that the job and responsibility of a man is to take care of his wife, his woman, his children.
58:43That's my responsibility. She's my queen and my princess. I'm not saying we don't have our issues back when, don't get me wrong. You know, we're married 41 years. you know and she's a she's a strong woman um but i always take care of my wife doesn't put gas in her car i do you know because she's entitled to that as far as i'm concerned and i think every man should have that thinking about the woman that they love with you 100 so um that's what she sees in me she didn't like the mob part of it she didn't like that um it wouldn't be something that she would want from me if she just may i want you to go into the mob no she wouldn't like that hey i got a good job for you yeah don't you go she's a good christian woman and um you know but look she knows i love her and i take care of her and i know she loves me and so we have a 41 year marriage so that's beautiful congratulations man that's a long time so when you went away you were with her you were dating her is that no no what happened was we got married in july of 85 I went to prison in December of 85.
59:51So the eight years that I did in prison, we were married. And then I have a funny, I got an eight hour pass and she got pregnant. So we had a furlough baby. I was in the halfway house and she got pregnant. We had a halfway house baby. So we have babies while I was basically in prison legally because I wasn't, you know, I wasn't doing anything wrong. but um so she had the kids while i was still in prison and which was good because at least you know she had part of me there uh but she it was very rough i didn't do the normal prison time because they put me on diesel therapy shipping me all over the country then they had me in lockdown you know and i want to make this clear too i did sit down and talk to the government and you know you get the people on social media oh he's a rat oh he cooperated and i said listen I knew this life is well or better than anybody.
1:00:45I would never put anybody in prison. That was not my goal. And I would never go to that extent. Did I sit down with the government? Did I talk to them? Did I tell them the gas business after I went to jail about myself? Yeah. And do I have friends? Rudy Giuliano, who wanted to put me away for 100 years, is now a good friend. Joe Pistone, Donnie Brasco, who could have put me away for 100 years. He's now my friend. We became friends afterwards. Because I came to realize that, you know what? they were doing their job. They were doing their job. Just like you were. Yeah, this was their job. So that hatred that I had, that distorted sense of view, when I started to become a little wiser in my life and see things differently, I realized these are good people.
1:01:27They were just doing their job. Their job was to put me away, period. So I got it. And now I have many friends in law enforcement, not because I cooperated, not because I share information. We're just friends. Because, you know, we're friends, period. That's all I could say. That's pretty surreal that you and Rudy Giuliani are friends now. Yeah. He wanted to put you away for a hundred years. And that's what he told me. That's crazy. He said, if I convict you on this case, you're going to do double what your father got. I'm giving you a hundred years. He told me that in courtroom day of my arraignment.
1:01:57And I reminded him of that. And he said, yeah, I reminded him of 30 years later. But, you know, look, we had a lot that we had to go through. Yeah. But listen, Sean, you got to be held accountable for your actions. I consider myself extremely blessed. I could have been in prison for the rest of my life. 1 ,000%. Or I could have been dead. We had a big war in our family. War. 13 men were killed. 63 men went to prison. 18 guys became informants. And I'm in solitary confinement. While I'm suffering in solitary confinement, my friends are dying. Wow. I would have been in that war. Yeah. So I got blessed by being in solitary.
1:02:38Saved your life. Saved my life. That's how I look at it. Yeah. Because my father, I was out on parole. He said, you got to get back here. Forget this walking away stuff. We're going to war and we need you. And I was so torn. I said, oh my God, I don't want to be like a coward. Like I'm not going back. And then boom, I get violated. And you didn't have to make the choices. The choices made. No, the government made the choice for me. Wow. Yeah, they wanted to put me away forever again because I wasn't cooperating. I was pulling the wool over their eyes. They said it afterwards. they said and then when they realized it boom they locked me down they gave me the business but you know wow it's uh again i said it before it's surreal just to hear these stories man well for me it's just that's my life so it's not uh i don't look at it like a big deal but you know but it is i guess when the scheme of things it matters but for me it's people so uh you know how'd you go through prison i said well they didn't give me a choice they don't say do you want to go do you want to stay home you go and you deal with it it's not a voluntary exercise right and guys will say i think i can do it you'll do it if you put in this situation you'll do it i think survival you know instincts kick in and you learn the environment you have no choice we give up no you know because you were pretty young you still had time if you got out you still have a life and you've shown that you've built an amazing life yeah amazing blessed yeah man you said you said something twice and i always hate to go back to something but i feel i need to because i need to understand what it means what is gas therapy what is what you said gas therapy or something like that or diesel therapy diesel diesel therapy the worst part of being in federal prison when they really want to break you down they'll take you out of your cell at two o 'clock in the morning bring you to the airport you get on some plane that the marshals confiscated from some drug dealers you're shackled and handcuffed the whole time and they take you on that plane and they bring you somewhere you don't know where you're going or whatever and they'll bring you to that prison you'll be there same thing for a week pick you up bring you they don't tell your family where you are for security reasons and they just ride you around you can never get settled you can hardly take a shower you don't have any of your clothes because you're in but they don't let you take anything with you and they just move you around until you're like so exhausted that is it's the worst part you rather be in solitary you rather be anywhere than that really yeah oh yeah so they put me on that for a couple of months my wife didn't know where I was they wouldn't tell her you can't write you can't do anything you're lucky you get to a phone wow you know and she's calling the bureau of prisons where's my husband oh don't worry he's okay but we can't tell you where he is so they do that to really try to get you and they they gave me that therapy for a while and then uh and then they locked me down for 29 months and seven days in solitary in solitary yeah 29 months 29 months and seven so it's like almost two and a half years yeah that's wild yeah how do you not go insane you don't you know for me it was uh it was a faith issue for me is when i really developed my faith my relationship with the lord and um you live free of phone call and for a visit wow now that's the moment when the guard handed you the bible right yeah when you're in solitary first night yeah wow you know i i of course i mean it's movies you see movies someone's in solitary for a week they come out all insane just wild and crazy 29 months yeah you know what look i know guys that did longer than that uh and it affects you don't get me wrong i saw a lot of guys that did not do well you know those lights go out at night or sometimes some some things you don't want to think about but i don't blame them i understand you know it's not for everybody yeah you know um but if you you get through it yeah what was the one thing that you had to work through psychologically when you were able to get out of solitary you know when i got out the first thing i wanted to do when i left prison um believe it or not this is going to sound crazy i told my wife i want to be around people let's let's go to walmart walmart walmart that was your outing yeah that's the first place i went when i first released not an all not not an all-inclusive vacation no i just wanted to i wanted we left from the prison and went right to walmart and i just wanted to walk around the store and just be part of life again yeah and she yeah she said are you sure i said i'm sure i don't want to buy anything i just want to look it's one of the walmart man that's the rollbacks yeah it's it's interesting you say that because all too often in life there's things that we take for granted every single day and i'm i'm as guilty as anybody you know i i can take my family to dinner anytime i want all our bills are paid we have clothes my kids have nice stuff they get to go to camps they get to do whatever they want to do you get to go on one vacation a year and there's times where i think i don't have enough but for a man that spent 29 months in solitary confinement how many years total in prison was it it was eight out of today you did eight you just want to walk around walmart yeah you you'd be surprised how little things like that you know i'll give you another example before i went to prison i never waited for anything if i wanted a car i want that car i want it now pay you i want it now i don't want to wait i don't want to order it i want it now well i don't have it we'll go find one like that i'll be back tomorrow that was the way movie line, I always had a way to get in.
1:08:17Never waited on line. I get out of prison, and I forget what movie me and my wife were going, but the line was around the corner. This was back when people were still going to theaters. And I start walking towards the end of the line. And my wife says, where are you going? I said, we're going to the movie. She says, but where are you going? I said, well, long line. We've got to go online. She said, you're going online? I said, yeah, why? She said, you never waited for anything. but in prison, everything is hurry up and wait. Nothing is in a hurry. You're online, you're here, that's it. So I got used to it.
1:08:53It didn't bother me anymore. Yeah, where are you going to go, right? It bothers me now, though. I got over that. I don't want to wait in line anymore. But yeah, that kind of got me like that. It kind of settled me down in that regard. That's interesting. Is there any question about your past that you haven't been asked that you wish someone would ask you? gosh i can't think of it right now i mean obviously i don't reveal everything of course not you know but i i mean no i mean you know just today talking about my brother i don't think i've had that i haven't had that kind of an in-depth conversation about it so something has to just hit me and then maybe it'll come out but yeah no it's just and it's a very abstract question.
1:09:39It's just, you know, there's, there's things that when people ask me questions or, you know, like, like, how, I wonder why they didn't ask me that. You know what I mean? Like, it's a pretty interesting question to ask. I wonder why they didn't think of that, you know, but. Listen, you know, Sean, the one question I always get asked that you didn't ask, you know, but always is, have you ever killed anybody? I would never ask that. Okay. I mean, pierce morgan they always ask that and you know my answer is i get it i understand that but what i said to pierce at off camera i think it was pierce i was talking to one of the guys no that's definitely a pierce question yeah i've been on his show twice so it's definitely i didn't ask me that but i'm saying i think it was him i had this conversation with but i said can i ask you a question if a guy from the army came on here that was in the war would you ask him how many people that he killed.
1:10:32Oh, no. Well, why not? Murder is murder. If you're killing somebody, you're killing somebody. I know it's different when you're killing somebody for your country, you're fighting the enemy, but you're still murdering somebody. Why is it so fascinating when you're a mobster? Now, I'm probably crazy for asking that question. People are saying, come on, Mike, are you crazy? And maybe I am. It's just how it hits me. It's like, it's so fascinating to people, you know and i'm saying gosh police kill people and you know the enemy army but why is it so fascinating for a mobster sean if i'm crazy tell me no i don't think you're crazy i see your perspective but i also see the other perspective right because i am the other perspective it's just i wouldn't ask a question like so you know the mafia the mob has has been i don't want to say glamorize but but it's been very cinematic in our culture right there's always movies about it there's documentaries there's all that stuff like i know jack you know what about that life but i knew who the columbia family was right and so when when someone has the opportunity to be in front of someone like you or or to speak to them virtually i think i can understand i can understand the question um i i don't respect the lack of emotional intelligence that leads someone to actually ask that question um but i can see the the the intriguing part of it right and then on your side i'm like dude what's the difference you know well you know but i will tell you this and um this might sound strange but there are guys that obviously have cooperated went in the program and admitted to murders, right?
1:12:16And they have immunity, obviously, for that. There's guys online that talk about it, and I'm offended by it. Because I say to myself, why do you want to talk about this? I don't care that you have immunity. I don't care that. Why do you want to brag or boast or even mention the fact that you killed somebody? You know, unless you're doing it in a remorseful way. I just, it's not a badge of honor. It's not a badge of courage. And I feel that some guys, and I'm not being specific about anybody, you know, you listen, it's like a badge of honor. And I say that, you know, murder is a horrible thing.
1:12:53It's a horrible thing. It really is. And it's not something in my view that you should talk about so nonchalantly or even bring it up. If you were fortunate enough not to be doing life in prison because of it, because those are the penalties, leave it alone. Yeah. That's how I see it. But I think you said it best because my, my challenge back to you was like, but what if they're doing it to get it off their chest? So they feel kind of freed from this, this heaviness, but you said it remorseful mate, but you can tell if someone is being remorseful or just talking about it just for the sake of talking about it.
1:13:33Right. I think those are two different things. Yeah. Listen, I'm going to tell you this. It is nothing courageous about taking a gun and putting it in the back of somebody's head. It's not an act of courage. And I can say that. It's not. It's not something that should be lauded as a courageous act. And I just don't think it's something that should be talked about. Period. That's just my feeling. So even if I were to admit to a murder and I had immunity for it, I wouldn't discuss it. I just don't feel good about it. I mean, I think just the fact that, I mean, I'm sure you can reflect on your life and in organized crime and go, man, there's probably a lot of people that suffered because of the decisions I made, whether it was murder.
1:14:20I mean, it didn't even have to be murder. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't have to go to that extreme. But like, you're already reconciling that, right? And thinking of it. And I think that right there is heavy enough. it is yeah listen i know that weighs heavily on some people i've experienced that during my time but i just uh i i guess i just don't get it you know there's certain things that you just don't discuss unless like i said if if it's a remorseful way i got to get this off my chest and whatever i'm this is how i deal with it okay but to constantly talk about it and like it's a badge of honor I just don't see it from anyone even if you're in the military you know what every guy I know in the military that I ever asked you know talked about the experiences they never mentioned that mm-hmm never oh I killed a no they don't do it no they don't want to because what they'll say is look I've been through some horrible things and they'll leave it at that yeah seeing some things and yeah you know I'm recovering from it or I'm having yeah you know I've been in the room with a lot of seals that, you know, in my line of work, I've interviewed multiple and it's never even occurred to me to ask that question.
1:15:40You know, it's, um, there's, there's a boundary I feel in life and you have to be able to see them, the imaginary boundary, just like the dog has that imaginary fence, you know, like they can't go to that edge of that, that property line or it's going to shock them. We know deep down what is the right question to ask, right? There's a difference between being courageous in your question and then just flat out just missing it. And you're like, yeah. You know, and I understand a journalist, sometimes he feels responsible. He's going to hear it from his people. And let me tell you, I like Pierce Morgan a lot.
1:16:13I don't have a problem with him. Yeah, we became friends and I really like him. He's really good at what he does. Really good at what he does. Oh, he sure is. And, you know, I understand. Hey, I'm supposed to be asking these questions. I get it. I get it. I really do. It's not even that. I just don't understand the, again, I don't want to be redundant, the fascination with people that they have over it. Not so much the person that is interviewing you. It's the fascination that people seem to have. When I go out, it's always the first question I'm asked. Like Q &A, how many people have you killed and where's all your money buried?
1:16:46I get that all the time. If it's buried, you can't use it. I say, well, bottom line, I'm not going to answer either one. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, but I get asked that all the time. I laugh it off. Yeah. It's like, you know, I can predict it's going to happen. but we do the Q and A's, but. That's insane. You know, when you, when you look back at your whole life, right. And, and, and being in the family and everything like that. Do you ever look at it and be like, how in the hell am I here? Like not even just from the standpoint of the contract, I'm talking about the standpoint of it's, it's dangerous.
1:17:24Right. And there's so many things that you experienced through that. You ever look back and just go like, oh my god like that's a that's a lot i i look back all the time i mean it hit me hard um on my 75th birthday it really did because it's three quarters of a century yeah and everybody just about i mean if i'd had put a percentage it would be 99 of the people i knew through that life are gone yeah gone done and i'm here so you know there was a time i didn't know if i'd make it to this point so i look back and sean i'm not saying this but it's the truth i am thankful every day to be alive and free you know one of the things people in reach when your freedom is taken from you wow it's it's heavy yeah your freedom is so valuable that's why as bad as as There's a condition our country can be in.
1:18:22We have to cherish our freedom here. We are free. Agreed. And I wish that people understand how important that is and really not to let anybody in leadership take that away from us. Our freedom is everything. Yeah. And we have that here in this country. That's why we are the greatest country in the world for that reason alone. And I get upset when I think people are trying to infringe on that. people in leadership for their own personal reasons you know their power whatever it is that they're trying to achieve that troubles me because i know what it is to have my freedom taken away and i cherish it was it scary going to prison it wasn't scary because i visited my dad my whole life i knew what prison was all about so it wasn't scary at all it was not pleasant you You know, you don't want to go, but no, I was never scared.
1:19:14I was never scared of things happening in prison. The only thing I'll tell you what scared me about prison. When my dad went to prison under the old rules and the Bureau of Prisons, you had one phone call a month and one visit a month, one three minute phone call a month, three minutes and one visit. So what happened? My mother and my father drifted apart. He wasn't there. you know my brother had an accident this and that he wasn't there so he naturally became not part of the family and i saw my mom and his relationship really fall apart in many many ways i was scared of that happening with me and my wife so all that mattered to me in prison phone call and visit i told one lieutenant came to me once i was in phoenix this guy was it was out of a movie and he said, you know, I want you mafia guys to know that this is my prison.
1:20:10It's not your prison. I said, Lieutenant, I don't want to have anything to do with your prison. I said, no, you know what I told him? I said, you can lock me in my room 24 seven, my cell. Just make sure I get my visits and my phone calls. That's all I care about is seeing my family. And that's all I did care about when I was in prison. Fortunately, they, those restrictions were lifted yeah you know you got more visits and stuff but i would get on the phone when my wife if she had a plumbing problem i'd get on the phone with the plumber i when she wanted a new car i brought her five or six seven cars when i was away i was just trying to keep her happy i would get on and buy the car i had a leasing guy that i was working with that after like eight years he said what am i going to meet you i saw my job takes me away all the time right he didn't even know i was jail right when I finally got home I said well I quit that job I'm gonna be here now you know he had no clue and then he found out yeah yeah I mean because I just wanted to be part of the family yeah and you know fortunately we're able to get more visits I didn't want my relationship with my wife to be destroyed that's all that I worried about nothing else that's awesome looking back after everything you've been through was it all worth it was it worth it well i have to say yes because i you know i'm very blessed in my life with my wife my kids and what i have people say would you have joined the life again under the circumstances probably yes because i saw it as a way to help my dad not because i wanted to be a wise guy i saw it as a way to help my dad but knowing what i know now i would say dad there's got to be a different way maybe i'll become a lawyer maybe whatever it's not the way for me to go you know maybe we'll do something different yeah we'll do it different i don't know if anybody's ever told us about you but i've noticed something about you in these adverse moments of your dad going to prison you felt the need to go and help the only thing you were worried about in prison was being a part of your family you're very selfless you are because those those things are about other people man and when people are backed up against the wall the only thing that they can think of is one thing one person is themselves and how do they survive but you have been focused on everybody else and i i truly believe that is your heart and that is why you're at where you're at now i don't know if anybody's ever told you that but that's the in the in the last hour and probably hour and a half conversation we've had everything you're saying is selfless man and that is obviously a compliment right for the audience I'm not saying selfish.
1:22:50I'm saying selfless. You are outwardly focused on everybody else for the ones that mean something to you. And that is a great quality. Thank you. That's a great quality. Well, you know, I, uh, listen, I learned one thing in life. It is really, and this is, I know it's a slogan or whatever, but it really is a lot more rewarding to give than it is to receive, especially when you've had everything. Look, I've, I've had, what else do I need in my life? Yeah. You know, and I love to see people happy as a result of what I've been able to do for them if that's if that happens Dude, you bought your wife seven cars in prison I know people that never been to prison and haven't bought seven cars I told my wife.
1:23:30I said listen, don't worry about spend all the money. You got it's okay when I come home I'll make it up You know, listen, I made a lot of money in my life and money I try to tell and I get asked this question all the time. What does money mean to you? I'll tell you what it means peace of mind comfort enjoying my family and not having pressure because money problems stink yeah they're horrible they ruin lives they ruined relationships but I don't I give money away I've been very unselfish in that regard because it's a tool to make people happy and to be comfortable that's really all it is you know Sean if I would ask you this what do you want your legacy to be in life I get asked that all the time I said look I don't want my name on a building.
1:24:14I don't need any of that. I want somebody when they come up to show and say, Hey, did you know Michael French? Yeah. Oh, he was a pretty nice guy. You want to hear that. And you want your family to be intact and that you left something for your family. Oh, he was able to do good for his family. You know, I have a little bit of a problem because I was married once before and I had three children from my first marriage. I've had a little bit of a tough time dealing. My son is very close to me, lives out here, but my two daughters are in New York. I was never able to repair the relationship the right way.
1:24:47I let them down, no question, because of the circumstances and everything else. And that's the one kind of blemish that I have with my children. I wasn't able to deal with them the way I want to. And they're older now. You know, my oldest daughter's 49 years old. But that remains as a failure for me in that regard. But other than that, you know, I want my kids to be able would say I was a good dad, you know, and he left me something. That's your legacy. That's really your legacy in life. How do people react to you? What does your family think of you? They always say, you know, what would the wall say when you're not around?
1:25:26Right. What do people say when you're not looking? And what does your family and your children think about you? That's your legacy. That's it. And I agree 100 % with you. You know, your whole life, the being in being in the family, being in prison, getting out, reconciling with your father, reconciling with your brother, man, all that stuff is not easy, you know, and with all that, there's a lot of adverse moments, but because of everything you've gone through in your life and experience, what does true determination mean to you? True determination. I mean, look, you know, accomplishing things that you really set out to do.
1:26:07Um, you know, and, and again, I mean, I think it just summed it up, you know, just look, when I set out to do something, I like to finish it. I like to get through it and finish it. That's important. You know, I try not to take on things that I'm not good at. You know, a lot of people, a lot of people want to get credit for everything. Me, I'm the first one to admit, I don't know anything about that do it for me do what you do best delegate the rest and then motivate the people that you delegate this to to get the most out of them that any success i had in business that was my formula i do what i do best i delegate the rest to hire the right people and i motivate them to get the best out of them because there's stuff now i don't know and i don't want to know and i can't do it i mean i turned to my future son-in-law hey fix the here's my i don't know i don't want to hear about it.
1:27:01AI, listen, here's my thing. We got to be on top of AI because that's the future, but don't ask me about it. I don't want to learn. I don't want to know. I don't want to hear. I got too much in his brain right now. There's not enough capacity for me to do that well. So you handle it for me. I feel you on that. Yeah. I don't even want to attempt to know. Oh, Michael, you don't know. You're right. I don't know anything, but you do. So I'll hire you and you make it right. That's it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. No, it's a good explanation it's you know it's on point you're talking about you know the ability to finish what you started by taking action and not letting up being consistent right that's what that's what it's all about i gotta tell you i really enjoy this and i appreciate you and thank you so much for coming on and spending so much time i've never said this on the air but i'm going to this has been one of my favorite conversations i've ever had on my show i appreciate that and i enjoyed it very much also you know you never know what to expect but you you're there were times when I would go into an interview and I had to lead the guy into the questions because you know how it goes Sean I do I think this was very it was very just very good very relaxed and very good thank you well hell man three years ago you might have to lead me you know I love to dance a little bit since then I said no but maybe three you know three years ago you might have to leave me a little bit but I've learned to dance a little bit hey listen we all get better yeah you know what I mean but no you you you handled it well and and uh it was a pleasure to come on thank you so much all right guys i hope you enjoyed today's show really dive into what michael's doing if you ever have the opportunity to hear him speak go check him go check him out want to buy his books buy his books but support this man because he's doing great things and all he cares about is people and for you guys out there i want you doing the same thing focus on the ones that you love and always give back to your community and to your family and ultimately always be present.
1:28:54And until next time, guys, stay determined.
From the publisher
Michael Franzese, former Colombo crime family captain, author, speaker, husband, father, and one of the only men to publicly walk away from the mob life and live to tell the story, joins The Determined Society for a powerful conversation on family, loyalty, faith, accountability, forgiveness, and redemption.
In this episode, Shawn French and Michael discuss the moment his father was sentenced to 50 years in prison, why Michael left the path to becoming a doctor, what it meant to enter the Colombo family, the blood oath, the gasoline tax scheme, trials, prison, and the decision to walk away from the life publicly. Michael also opens up about the contract placed on his life, his complicated relationship with his father, reconciling with his brother, refusing to cooperate, and how faith helped him rebuild a life rooted in family, purpose, and second chances. The Determined Society is hosted by Shawn French — a show for people who
refuse to quit. Every episode goes beyond the highlight reel to explore
the real stories behind resilience, reinvention, and the relentless
pursuit of a life built on your own terms.
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