Stephen Cazares: The Menendez Brothers released on parole?

0:00You're about to make a trade. Which you do you listen to? Is it get optioning those options? Or let's do a little research. Learn more at FINRA.org slash trade smart. The Menendez case. Zero shot these guys were ever even going to be thought of getting out of prison, right? They're going to spend their life behind bars. And now the judge resentenced them to 50 years with the possibility of parole. So now they come before the parole board in a couple months. Oh, my God. Is this real? You never would have thought this was going to happen. Back in the day, it's like, it didn't matter. You kill your parents, especially in that type of grisly way.

0:41Lock you up, throw away the key. Now it's like they had it coming to them. Crazy part about it would be if they were granted parole, I would imagine they'll be on the talk show circuit, granting interviews, trying to figure out ways to monetize. Book something, you know, a movie. obviously, right? Maybe they'll come on the Determined Society. That'd be kind of crazy, huh?

1:04So, Steven, you're out there in the world of California, criminal law attorney, everything is allegedly out there defending people. What's going on in your world right now? There's a lot going on out there, but specifically for you, what are you seeing out there? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, you know, with the change in administrations, what my practice is focuses more on kind of white collar civil and criminal defense. So a lot like securities fraud, money laundering, tax issues, civil litigation involving fraud. And with somewhat the changes in priorities by agencies that lead those sort of practices, you know, the DOJ, the SEC.

1:48So we're seeing a little bit of a kind of change in focus from what they used to be interested in was kind of like corporate fraud, SCPA, bribery, things like that. And the focus is leading away from that towards maybe more middle market kind of routine kind of fraud, Ponzi schemes, your more securities fraud, things like that. So the shifts in priorities kind of affect everybody in the market. For me, it's been pretty good, but I can see some people are kind of having difficulty adjusting it. You know, it's interesting because like, you know, with your type of your type of white collar crime, it's almost like you can go to work one day and make a couple bad decisions.

2:36Right. And it can land you in serious, serious trouble and in prison. Right. What what what about those things? I can look back and I don't have a lot of knowledge on it. Right. But I look back at like the whole GameStop thing. Right. Is that something that you're kind of talking about? Yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting. I mean, I've seen it from both sides. I was a federal prosecutor for the last seven years. I've been on the defense side. And what I often see is people who go into an activity or a fundraise or a business or an operation well-meaning with good intentions. And then, like you said, an event occurs, a loss of support or some change in direction of the business that wasn't anticipated.

3:25And they try to fix it. And maybe trying to fix it without telling everybody how they're fixing it or what happened. then people can start digging a hole that, you know, once you start digging, it can be difficult to stop without kind of blowing things up. And that's, that's in my, in my mind, how a lot of people run into problems. It's, you know, trying to fix things on their own without getting proper help without disclosing what's happening. And it can have really catastrophic consequences for even well-meaning people. Is there, is there a recent example that you can dive into that's public that you're allowed to talk about and that specifically speaks to something like that someone's trying to fix something maybe doesn't tell them and then this whole fire starts that they can't stop yeah you know i mean it can even come from an experience from a case i worked on that they're in a situation you know the elizabeth holmes blood testing company well-meaning well intention.

4:25She was very public in her ambition and what she was trying to build. And my client, Sonny Balwani, was right there with her, helping her to build the business. But arguably, you know, one could... Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you. Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. So did you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse.

5:06It's time to be great. Suggests that there were some decisions made with respect to dealing with regulators. Not misleading the regulators, but maybe taking aggressive positions with regulators that may have triggered those regulators. I'm talking about the U.S. in particular and the FDA. Here is what we're taking more aggressive positions that kind of started this push-pull that ultimately led to investigations, employee blowing, the SEC, the DOJ, and it all kind of spiraled down into what wound up being massive criminal trials and unfortunately for them convictions. Yeah, it was an interesting thing because, you know, I mean, I live in a world where, you know, you look at streaming services, right?

5:55And the thing that is very impactful that I see lately, I think we mentioned it yesterday when we were talking on the phone. It's just so crazy how Hollywood now is impacting real life, right? And so when you have something like, you know, the Theranos trial, That was just something that happened and then it turned into a miniseries and then it's a largely publicized thing, right? To me, it's just interesting how the streaming services and Hollywood is actually impacting public perception of things that are not necessarily private, but may not have heard of it if there wasn't a miniseries made on it.

6:37Oh, and it can have real consequences for the parties trying to litigate the matter or even the trial. For example, you mentioned the miniseries. Our trial for Mr. Balwani started in March of 2022, the exact same week that Hulu released the miniseries. And so there were advertisements everywhere in the Bay Area. Every sign had had the Hulu show on it. And on the day the trial started, when the jury is coming in to start jury selection, they drove one of those.

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8:23Yeah, that's interesting. You know, another one comes to mind is, you know, I mean, we discussed yesterday, I grew up in the Bay Area, right? And I remember, you know, the whole Menendez, the Menendez case. And there was zero shot, zero shot these guys were ever even going to be thought of getting out of prison, right? They're going to spend their life behind bars. And, you know, what was it last year? Netflix came out with the the little miniseries. And now they're literally going up for resentencing. Right. I think that happens in August. Right. They were already resentenced. So they were given life without possibility of parole originally.

9:07And in May, after all of those filings and motions and hearings, the judge resentenced them to 50 years with the possibility of parole. And once you serve a certain amount of time, you become eligible. So they're now eligible for parole. So now they come before the parole board in August. When it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients at GoodToKnowFacts.org. No spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts for more than 140 beverage ingredients.

9:55Visit GoodToKnowFacts.org. Just a couple months. That's right. And the parole board, they really don't like to let people out, man. You know, that could be, but they at least have a shot now, and it's just crazy. It's like, you're looking at this like, oh, my God, is this real? You know? Yeah. You never would have thought this was going to happen if you were talking about this case three or four years ago when the prior DA in L.A., who was kind of a reformist, kind started this whole process. And they actually, the district attorney filed the motion to request resentencing. And then that DA lost this past November, lost the election.

10:38And the new DA came in and said, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. And he tried to withdraw the motion and the whole process. And the judge ultimately gave the brothers their hearings and granted them the opportunity to get parole. Now, whether it happens, the parole board is tough. If you go to the parole board's website and look at the calendar, it's just hundreds of people like on a weekly basis, like through August. It's an impossible task for them to give everybody a real close, careful look. But because the brothers are so famous and because this case is so unique, unlike all the rest of Those people who are on that parole board list, I mean, I think they have a real shot.

11:24You do think they have a real shot, huh? Yeah. I mean, it's because the amount of time they served. And in these situations, because they committed the offenses before they were 26 years of age, and after they were convicted, the law in California changed. So that if you commit certain heinous offenses, but you're considered a youthful offender under 26, the court is supposed to take into consideration your age, development, other issues that may have motivated or contribute to the crime. And when that's the case, it gives you a slightly better angle in getting parole because you're to the extent you engage in rehabilitation programs, things like that.

12:12Those will maybe carry a little more weight when someone was already a fully in at least in the state of California's view, fully formed adult, not a youthful gender. it's just wild to me man you know because like i'm looking at this and i you know look man regardless of allegedly why they did it because they never denied the fact that they did it it was the reasoning they did it right and now because of the the hit miniseries it gave everybody the opportunity like hey let's look at this thing again and cause mayhem and and it impacted the judicial system. Dude, that's powerful, man. Oh, yeah.

12:58I mean, I think so many things that have played into it, the media's impact on the case, you know, the kind of societal changes since these things happened. You know, the abuse issues were an issue in the original trial. And the original trial, the first trial, the trial judge wouldn't let that defense come in. He kept it all out. It was only in the retrial where some of it came in, but not really the full extent that we're now aware of. And, you know, given what happened in the church, with the Catholic church abuse issues and all, I think society has just changed its views about whether young men can be, you know, victims of that kind of abuse.

13:45I think back then, the district attorney, the trial attorney actually told the jury, argued to the jury, young men like them can't be abused in that way, which is absurd. Right. They absolutely can. Yeah. No. So times have changed. But you're right, though. Societal changes, right? And how people perceive these types of crimes and how the public views is acceptable or not, right? So back in the day, it's like, it didn't matter. You kill your parents, especially in that type of grisly way, like lock you up, throw away the key. Now it's like they had it coming to them. Right. And I don't truly believe that, but some people do.

14:25I mean, you, you get on there and you, and you see on social media, there's something like, Hey, you know, like these kids did their time, you know, their parents, you know, did this to them. They should get out of jail now. And it's just like, I'm looking around, I'm going, wow. And I'm wondering what your opinion is. Let's say They go before the parole board and they do get out. Two-part question. If that process does happen, what's the process on the release? And then also what type of public backlash or celebration do you foresee happening? You know, it's interesting. So if the parole board were to get to that position and actually grant parole, And that would be after the brothers submit all of their kind of supporting information.

15:13The DA's office would submit all of theirs. Victim impact statements could be considered. There's like a risk report done of the brother in respect to whether they were violating rules in custody, things like that. All of that goes into the decision making. If the board then says, yes, we're going to grant because the evidence suggests that, you know, they do not present an unreasonable risk with society. The governor can still overrule and say no. Oh, OK. Not a free pass. You know, the board can grant and the governor can take it the way. Now, whether he would do that, who knows? But, you know, there are a lot of moving parts to this whole decision making.

16:02And then even then, a judge can impose conditions on the parole. Now, what those conditions would be, it can depend. You know, they would have theoretically a parole officer. There might be work requirements. You have their check-in requirements, like financial disclosure requirements. um sometimes there could be you know you have to do charitable work things like that well even home confinement can be a term would be probably unusual and the really crazy thing here is we i think all view the brothers together as a single unit theoretically one of them could get role and the other could not. Interesting.

16:51So they're not necessarily subject to the same outcome because, again, they're each individual and they're going to be assessed individually. So you're talking about Gavin Newsom. Is it typical that a governor would overrule or remove the parole decision if they were granted? Is that normal? It's happened. Really? I think there are, I think there, in my recollection, one or two of the female Manson family clan. I think one of them was granted parole by the board. And I think the governor overruled it by recalling correctly. So it happens, particularly when you're talking about high profile crimes, the Menendez brothers, the Manson family, things like that.

17:40They're so grisly. you know it's not it's not out of kind of character for for politicians to want to look tough on crime you know yeah what okay so the second part of the question was like what let's say that they do get granted the parole newsom doesn't you know withdraw it and they do get out they can get out immediately right like it would be an immediate type situation yes yeah it could be quick can you imagine a world like i mean honestly it's it's it's crazy to me because as as we mentioned i grew up in that area i remember it happening it was what 89 yep yep yeah it was uh when it happened it was it was the dawn of court tv also so you know that That was really the beginning of this focus on the legal system and cameras in courtrooms, at least in state court.

18:47This was really the starting point of kind of all of that, all the way through the 90s and later the OJ trial. Yeah. Yeah, this was really the beginning. But the crazy part about it would be if they were granted parole, kind of the media frenzy. I mean, if you imagine what it's going to be, I would imagine they'll be on the talk show circuit, on, you know, granting interviews, trying to figure out ways to monetize the notoriety. A book, something, you know, a movie, obviously, right? Maybe even the Determined Society. Maybe they'll come on the Determined Society. That'd be kind of crazy, huh? Maybe.

19:29I think it would be a good move for them if they do get out. So it's – go ahead. No, I mean, I agree. It would be kind of crazy. I was just thinking about all these different things, like to your point of the media frenzy. I mean, it's going to be massive. I think it's going to be massive either way, whatever decision they make, right? Good, bad, or indifferent. One gets out, both gets out. None of them get out. I think there's going to be a side that people are going to play, and it could potentially cause an uproar out there, right? Do you see anything potentially happening if they do get out?

20:09What do you see that frenzy being locally? You know, it's always present throughout this whole resentencing process. It's been pretty top of mind for most of the community, local news even. I've been on top of it pretty much step by step, actually in the courtroom for every hearing and reporting it out. So it's still it's still a headline that follow. I just think for the brothers, though, this is really a huge moment because in the parole system, if you don't get it the first time. The board can then make a decision. will any retry in three years, five years, seven years, 15 years. And given the age of where the brothers are at, if they don't get it now, the clock is running.

21:09I mean, you don't come back for several years, which is really tough. They're in their 50s, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Because I'm 46, and I know they're older than me. Yeah, they're older than myself as well. I think they're in like late fifties, if I recall correctly. That seems mid to late fifties. That seems about right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be crazy. And just like, you know, I'm trying to think of like all the other things too, because they're sitting there like, obviously, of course they want to get out, but what do they do? Who's going to hire them? Right. Like I just, all these things, man, I'm just like very, I'm not saying it to be funny though.

21:49I know it's a, I know it's a chuckle. We're both laughing about it, But it's like, damn, like, really think about that. Like, what kind of quality of life are they going to have if, in fact, they do get out? They're going to have nobody. It's well, they do have. Interestingly, I mean, they do have family members, cousins, aunts who have mostly been supportive. And it sounds like they would be supportive of them going forward because, again, part getting back to the whole parole plan and the presentation by the brothers. They actually have to present a release plan and any plans they have and efforts they're going to make to basically rehabilitate, follow the rules, and not recidivate, not commit crimes again.

22:36So basically, they would have already presented to the board how they're going to be supported by friends, family, potential employers or business opportunities, things like that. that's all part of the decision making because if their family life and support were a blank slate they had none pretty highly unlikely they'd get out because what else could you do but commit a crime to support yourself yeah but to your point though i think there's going to be a a massive opportunity for them i mean there's going to be a book publisher that's ready for a massive six-figure advance right there's there's gonna be a lot of different opportunities for them that are going to present it right away.

23:16I just think it's crazy. It's nuts to me. It's all very interesting. But there's a lot of interesting things going out there in California right now. Hell, you were telling me yesterday, what happened in the park? What was going on? There was a parade. What happened? Yeah. I mean, with the uptick in immigration enforcement with ICE presence in Los Angeles over the last month, which I think most people, to the extent they were arresting felons and people here unlawfully who are committing crimes. I think most people kind of support that. Sure. But chasing day laborers through the parking lot at Home Depot has been a little surprising to some.

24:00And then what happened just yesterday at MacArthur Park, large park near downtown, pretty well known. there was essentially a kind of brigade of law enforcement, most believe they're ICE or CBT, Customs and Border Protection, fully masked, fully camoed, rifles, trucks, some on horseback, basically marching through the park. And the only thing or people that were in the park, there was a a summer day camp for kids and they were in the park and they suddenly all these this whole parade of armed officers comes through and the kids had to be like shuffled away and and so they weren't involved but they interested me buddy they just kind of marched up and down the park i guess presumably to to make known their presence in the community i think dhs released a statement that they did it to deter the market for unlawful for fake IDs and social security numbers in the park.

25:10I mean, theoretically, I guess, but do you need and camo to do that? Not really sure. It's just interesting. It kind of, it's almost like, because I can tell you what it looked like from afar, you know what I mean? We're, we're out here in Florida and we went out there to do some interviews. And I think the day or two before, you know, I talked to Val and talked to my team. I'm like, guys, I don't know how close we're supposed to be to these, this, this riot, these protests, these riots, whatnot. I see, you know, armed guards in the middle of, you know, the interstate or the highway. I'm like, oh my God, like what, what, what's going on out there.

25:48Right. And we got there and we didn't really see anything, but come to find out the studio, one of the studios we rented was literally two and a half miles away from the actual epicenter of this and when i when i asked the gentleman how far away it was he's like oh you're about 25 miles away i was like dang man dang yeah the all the action was within like a half square mile downtown where the federal buildings are essentially and um pretty isolated to just that so if if you just focus the cameras on that look area and it looked intent there's a lot going on but if you bring the camera out the larger picture it's like a little three corner or two where the activity was yeah it's a little pie i saw that one reporter get hit with a rubber bullet did you see that i know and those hurt they do real damage that you know that's uh that that's a pain point definitely um if you remember doing the paintball yeah back in the day if you ever did paintball like the way those paint pellets feel apparently this is like 10 times those paintballs so you create you want to hear a crazy story about paintball well we'll give the audience a break here and get them laugh a little bit so my son's last birthday he wanted to do paintball and you know this was in october i'm like all right my wife and i're like all right cool let's go do it so but it's all his friends and you know i um i had one of my buddies and his wife come out and the day was going great until my friend screwed the whole day up for everybody it was towards the end and buddy aj this is your fault goes up and sees my son and he's like five feet from and just unloads on my kid and no it seemed like his his leg was bleeding everywhere i'm like oh yeah what the shit what the hell was that it's this kid's birthday man like like beat them win like shoot them once but like also we told my son like dude don't wear shorts like don't it's hot i'm gonna wear i'm like okay and uh yeah dude so if it's if it's you know 10 times worse than that that shit hurts man no thanks oh yeah no thanks definitely I think.

28:07What else is going on in your world, man? There's got to be some, uh, there, I think you sent over some other points, um, someone with Sonny Balwani too. And there's just a lot of interesting things going on. I mean, other than obviously everyone's talking about the Diddy case and how, how that all worked out and shook out and what are the moving factors? Um, you know, I think some people are still trying to process that because, you know, I mean, it's emotional because people recognize, I think, the extent of the abuse and have difficulty processing. But how is it he got off on both of the serious charges?

28:41I think a lot of people are still kind of grappling with that, definitely. I'm one of them. And I can talk about it. Look, I don't have a dog in the fight under the fact that what's right is what's right. I see the abuse on film with Cassie. with Cassie, like you see it in the hotel room, you see all of these different things, you know, like the sex workers crossing state lines. Well, isn't that trafficking? Like, I don't, I don't understand. And typically when the state of New York charges you with something that big, it sticks like it, it, you know, that they, they have those those eyes dotted and those T's crossed.

29:21And so I think the, the big, the big surprise to the public was, oh he was convicted out of the five major accounts he was only convicted of two and then it's like what's going on is he getting out on bail and you know so obviously there's a lot of people that are like man this is kind of effed up because if this joker gets out like what the hell man like is it because of money is it because of you know the name and and again you know if he's not guilty then obviously he shouldn't be there. Like I get it. Like, I'm not saying that just because, you know, public perception says you're guilty, that you're guilty.

30:02I'm not, I'm not saying that at all. I don't want to be ignorant in the fact, but when I saw that, I'm like, what the fuck? What? Like seriously, like, yeah, it blew me away. It's, it's, it's a real issue. And it somewhat, I think ties into who prosecuted the case. because he was charged by debts. He wasn't charged by the New York DA's office. And, you know, so for federal jurisdiction, like you said, you've got to cross state lines or, you know, for the RICO charge, racketeer organization. Again, involving interstate commerce, you need to trigger federal jurisdiction. But some of the things you just described, you know, His literal assault and dragging Cassie through the hotel lobby, that doesn't cross state lines.

30:57That's domestic abuse. That's assault. Yeah. And it's clear. He could have been charged with that by the locals. Yeah. But that hasn't happened, I don't think. That would be the most obvious charge. But instead, in the federal jurisdiction, they had to put together a more complicated, you know, RICO case, trafficking case. And then the Mann Act, which is what he was actually convicted of, which is simply transporting, you know, persons across state lines for prostitution, which is literally like an early 20th century statute that was designed to prevent kind of some concerns back then about white slavery and trafficking in women in the early 1900s.

31:44you know so it's an odd it's still an odd duck to a federal charge that that is odd so with that charge there being convicted of that what what can that potentially come with because i know he's convicted of two things right what what potentially is he looking at in your mind yeah it's two counts of 18 usc 24 21 the stat max is is is five years each five years or maybe maybe 10 years each um But no one gets the stat map. Basically, you're sentenced under the sentencing guidelines. And for that, basically, offense, the guideline template starts at 14 points, which isn't significantly high. And then you add on additional points for other elements of the offense conduct.