The Hollywood Reality Check | Adversity Builds Discipline

28:03And I found myself just super grateful that we'd had that time. And knowing, having been through many cycles of life and ups and downs, you know, you don't expect things to last. So you know things come to an end. And that's a beautiful thing, too. It's sad. So it was a beautiful ending, man. I have this video I made of the last shot of Scandal that we made. And yeah, it was awesome. So we all put it in and we have all stayed friends. So we have like a text chain that's always popping off. And we see each other. We try and get together as much as we can. And those of us who live in the same cities, we're all just close friends.

28:46That's really cool. Yeah, it's great. You know, you mentioned at one point when you're just talking ups and downs.

28:56I want to, I really want to touch on that because this show, The Determined Society is built on discipline, grit, and resilience. And we have to understand that when moments get really hard, that is not the time to pull back. It may hurt emotionally, but you can't break your word to yourself. You have to keep pushing in your career. I want you to walk through the, walk through the audience. You don't have to give specifics, but people have this ridiculous notion that celebrities like actors and musicians, they don't have any adversity. They're good. They're rich. Debunk that for us, please, because there's a lot of struggle in what you do.

29:34Well, every successful person, I used to obsessively read books about great people or successful people. and we have from a distance we see all the high points the public successes because of course that's what we promote or that's what gets attention um and you think oh that would that's that person's life and when you when you read the story of any successful person it's basically a whole string of failures punctuated by a few successes along the way you know and um uh and And the commonality is tenacity and often like vision or something that just drives people. So for me, I started with this desire to do this thing that I had no idea if I had the ability to do, but I knew I couldn't really not do it.

30:27And so I, you know, and I've said this several times to people, but I had a brother-in-law who was a jazz musician who gave me some great advice when I was about 19. And he said, he said, Tony, either, he said, I was in your position when I was 19. And I told myself he'd come to New York and he was a prodigy musician. He had no idea if he could, he said, well, either if I commit 100 % to this, I'll either get where I think I want to go or it will lead me to something I don't even know about. But if I don't commit 100 % to this thing, this goal, then I'll always be the person who said, oh, man, maybe I could if I'd really stuck with it.

31:06He said, you don't want to be that guy. No, that's regret. And that honestly got me through so many tough times when it just wasn't happening. And I thought, I just don't see. The walls just seemed so high. I was never going to. And I was like, well, I committed. so I'm just going to keep going. So, and then over the years, you know, when things, I've made friends with, I don't even call it failure anymore. I used to consider it failure, but when things fall apart and don't come to fruition in the way that you imagine them, it's always disappointing and painful, but it doesn't invalidate them.

31:50And oftentimes, like we were talking about projects taking a long time, you know, So sometimes you say, okay, I'm done with this one. But for me, if there's something about a project that I just don't want to let go of, I'll just keep at it. I love it. Just keep at it. And I don't evaluate it on the terms of, how am I doing? You know, when I was younger, I did. I'd be like, where am I in relation to my dream? You know, where am I in my relationship to the top of Mount Everest? Am I there yet? How far do I have to go? Am I there? Yeah. Oh God, I mean, and then you're exhausted. You want to go back, go to sleep.

32:27It's an emotional drain. I'd say you waste so much energy. You know, I would, I used to burn so much emotional energy. You did. Oh my God. Freaking out about like why it wasn't happening for me, why I wasn't getting what I wanted, why I wasn't able to have the success that I thought I should have, or, you know, why it hadn't happened yet. Or that I wasn't on, like it should have happened by this time, or this thing should have happened. or look, that person is getting that, is doing that. And I, I, why aren't I there? All that stuff, you know, comparison thing, man, comparison, you know, like the, the thief of joy, but, um, now that I'm older or, you know, for several years now, I've sort of, you know, it's been a while that I've been able to be more centered about it.

33:10And you learn that, um, that, that just, it's just a completely ass backwards way of looking at anything. And, and, um, so now it's like, look inward to the, the why of what you're doing and what it's like raising kids, man. It's like, are they grown yet? Are they grown yet? No, you don't look at it that way. Don't grow. Don't grow. Like, I love you. I just want to be with you all the time. Three years old, man. That's happening. It's insane. And sometimes you drive me crazy and Oh, yeah. But, you know, so you wouldn't look at a child like that. Why don't we look at ourselves like that? So, you know, and of course, we want our children to grow up and thrive and have happy lives.

33:52But we don't, unless you're, you know, mentally unstable, you don't, you know, live in that space of like, so how are you rating to how you're going to be when you're 25 or 30 years old? Oh, wow. Are you there yet? Dude. Dude. Do you know what I mean? But we do that to ourselves. I've been there, though. Like I've, I mean, and my dad and I have fixed a lot of things in our relationship. I love him to death. Right. Talked for about an hour the other day. And a lot of it is him apologizing for moments like that. Wow. Yeah. Right. Like, Hey, if you don't play major league baseball, what are you going to do?

34:27You don't have any other skills. Right. Was that your, you were a baseball player? Yeah, I was baseball. I played at LSU. I played at. Oh, I think you meant it too. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. I forgot. I mean, you know, so it's, it's moments like that where I think parents are just really trying to prepare you like, Hey, you need to have a backup plan or you need to have something that you're good at. You know, for me, I was just like, Hey, I can talk to people. And they're like, yeah, you can't make any money doing that. Well, then we couldn't, but now like, it just kind of worked out for me.

34:57Right. But as you're, as you're going through these, you know, when you're talking about the walls, right. They seem so high. where where am I in relation to the top of Mount Rushmore? Dude, I'm going through that right now. Like it is hard for me still because I haven't matured to the point where I can just be like, okay, I'm just gonna stay in my process. I talk about it a lot, right? And I coach myself through it. And again, I'm not telling the audience that I don't practice what I preach because I do, but it's a struggle. It's still hard for me. I'm still learning how to try to turn the noise of the top of the mountain off and just be here now and understand that this is the gift.

35:38Because if I try to grow up too quickly, like you said, then I'm going to forget all this. This is the gift. Don't miss it. Because that's the other thing. I guess, honestly, only because I've had a lot of things that didn't work out and then did work out. We were talking about the show Shea Joey that took 10 years. So we're at Arena Stage in DC and the audience is going insane. They loved it. It was sold out. It got great reviews. we know our final performance like miles has this big number in the middle of the show they got he got three standing ovations so there's one number like the audience stood up cheering they wouldn't stop they sit down they jump up again like like that stuff doesn't happen very often so it was i was thrilled it was so fun but but someone who just came to that was like oh you did that thing isn't that great like that that's that's the that's the um that's the thing like Like, that's the thing you're, that's what it's all about.

36:35I'm like, no, that was just like this amazing moment that happened that was a reflection of the fact that we've worked our asses on this for so many years. Isn't it great that we sort of now found a formulation in a group of people where we had this moment that was beautiful. I love that. But it's not like. Now, you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire. All the greats, what they have in common, they have collectibles and they're being sold on Whatnot right now. And it brought me back to my childhood. Knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope.

37:13So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges. You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in. Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions, and buy. And they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real, thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces.

37:55That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. Search whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the app store, download, and you can start selling right away. You know, if I'd been thinking that was the goal the whole time, I would have quit years ago. I would have just went out there now. I want the shiny penny or whatever it is. So that's all. I mean, look, my dad and I had the same thing. He said to me once, a story I've told before, but God bless him. I love him. He was my biggest cheerleader. But he had a lot of fear as a parent. When I said I wanted to be an actor and do this risky thing.

38:45Maybe your dad too liked being a professional athlete. I mean, it's like, what are the odds of that happening? It's like razor thin. Yeah. So I'm a lot older than you, but I was like in the late seventies when I was a teenager, um, Saturday Night Fever opened. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie. It was a classic John Travolta made John Travolta, the biggest star in the world. John Travolta was like, God. Okay. My dad, we walked by a poster of Saturday Night Fever and he's like, you know, Tony, I'm really happy you have this passion, but you just need to understand if you're not John Travolta by the time you're 25, there's really no career.

39:2225. Hey, they're not in game, dude. Cause maybe Travolta was maybe 25 that I don't know. But I was like, and I said to myself, I was like, that can't be right. That just can't be right. But it was hard to man, like over the first several years and seven, you know, but in the next 10 years or whatever it was while I was starting out, my dad had a lot of anxiety. So he was, he was always He's like, you know, I could feel him feeling like this isn't working out. This isn't working out. This isn't working out. Then when good stuff started to happen, he was super thrilled. But I learned it was his fear.

39:56You know, I was mad at him for a number of years about it, especially in those years. But then when I kind of missed, I was like, no, he was just scared because he loved me. So then I, as a parent of adult children now, like when they start, we're at that point. it was really hard for me to not like it was so painful to watch them struggle and to watch them fail and fall on their face and like have a dream and work really hard for something and not get it and and you know bang their heads against the wall to try the thing that they want to do and I had to I had to coach myself as a parent to not like a run a rush and solve it not to um do that thing of like well maybe you should do something else maybe you should you know maybe you should cut your losses now.

40:42And whatever those impulses we have, I just don't want to see you suffer, which is all parents feel. Um, so, you know, but I, I bit my tongue and I started to realize, oh no, all of those, uh, trials are necessary, critical to their success. Do you know what I mean? Like to see them bang and then they're like smash into a brick wall and it makes them turn right in a way that they didn't know. They make a turn they never would have made if they hadn't have done that or bust through that wall. If it took them 100 times hitting it, they busted through it. Or they turned and found a path that they never would have found if they hadn't gone through it.

41:25And they're tougher and smarter and more experienced, resilient because of whatever it is. You go, oh, if they hadn't gone through that, they never would have done this. So I was like, oh, thank God I didn't feel that I needed to fix it or rush in there. So that was a big parenting lesson. That's so hard. Cause you know, we talk off camera. I have three kids. Mine are younger, 12, nine and seven. Yeah. Like you're, I'm like, I'm in the shit right now. Right. I'm like middle school, you know, elementary, you know, my son's starting to play sports that like, if you ain't good enough, you're cut.

41:56Right. Right. And so we went through those things this year with them and, and, and automatically it's like, sometimes I just want to run in and save his ass because I mean, I'm a high level, athletic guy. I coach, I coached for many years and I see things differently. And because of the work I do now on the show and I've grown, I know what it looks like. Just like with what just happened in DC, that moment was not the moment. That was the payoff for 10 years of pain. And that's what most people don't understand. And when I look at, I want to tell you a story. so my son tried out for the middle school soccer team and when he was in rec ball he dominated like he's like i'm just he was doing the messy thing and like all this kind of stuff i'm like this is freaking rec ball dude i didn't say that i always pump him up right yeah like in my my comment whether he plays great or absolutely dog shit i go i enjoyed watching you play but i did that i didn't i go did you have fun did you do your best it's it that's all i want to know If you answer no to did you do your best, that's on you.

43:06It's not about the goals. It's not about how many hits you get in a baseball game. I could care less. But my point is the opportunities as a parent that you get to really check yourself, right? Because there's something that, like you said, there's a little of your dad in you, right? You're like, you wanted to rush in. You wanted to say, hey, well, I want to help. You got to let him struggle a little bit. But he comes home after the first day of soccer trials. and he was bummed. And he's like, I'm going to get cut. I said, well, if you think that, then you probably will. I said, because what you don't understand, you got 66.67 % left of your trials.

43:42You got two more days left. So what are you going to do tomorrow to show the coach that you want to learn? What are you going to do tomorrow to work hard, no matter how you feel emotionally at that time? Because see, that's the key, son. It was a better day. Then the next day he comes home, it was better. He goes, dad, I don't know if I'm gonna make the team, but I'm okay. I'm like, explain that to me. I'm okay with the outcome because I did do the best that I could. I was like, you're the only one that knows that. And I have to trust that you're correct. And so we get an email later that night, midnight, I woke up to go to the bathroom.

44:20I'm not that young, Tony. Okay, I'm almost 48. All right, so I'm getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom now. and one of my biggest flaws is i will look at my email but something told me that and i like you have to look at your personal email not your business email so i look at my personal email and it was the soccer coach announcing that whoever's on this email you make your son made the team oh that's great he made the sick the middle school soccer team he wasn't a starter you know but dude they won the championship they were undefeated no they lost one game i apologize but he he plays it and did his role learned got better and won a championship i've never dude i've played a lot of sports i have never won an actual championship i've won an sec west championship um we lost the sec championship game my senior year we got beat up in the college world series two games and we were out.

45:22So like, I've never won the last game of my season. And I remember taking him to dinner and we went to this Mexican food place and I said, Hey man, I just want to let you know how proud I am of you. It's like, yeah, we did it. I'm like, I could, I was like, dude, I'm so proud of where you started and where you got to. But most importantly, to your point, yes, you won the last game of your season. I've never done that. He looked at me and he goes, What are you talking about? Yeah. I was like, I never won a championship. He's like, dad, you went to LSU. I go, we didn't win a championship when I was there, man.

45:56So you've done something that I've never done. I don't know what it feels like to be right. Like I'm getting like, just thinking about that, right? It's like my 12 year old had an experience that I didn't. And no matter what the route was, the end goal was attained, achieved for that team. but everything here the pain of tryouts the getting one minute a game until the third to last game he gets his first goal like there's the gift yeah right like the moments here it's like every time we think about these walls being so high and where are we going it's so hard to get off that mindset because it can truly tear us down yeah we have to understand that let's be here now it takes years i mean you know it's a lifelong process because i i mean i remember um having this the when i my first big break was the movie ghost right so i'd been up to that time like working my ass up struggling you know working but always feeling like an unemployed actor i i showed up for my very first day of rehearsal on ghost and um i i couldn't believe that i had this big part in this big movie and i pull into the lot of paramount studios and there's a parking space with my name on it whoa what and i walked to the stage and i and i'm walking to the stage where i have our first rehearsal i remember but that was demi moore and me at this rehearsal and i was like i saw the this this stage 19 as it was and i turned around and i looked at a building behind me and i saw this stairway going up and i remembered a building like three months ago I had been auditioning for some crap pilot sitcom pilot and they had made all the like made me wait over an hour for my you know for my reading and they didn't even have any chairs for the actors I remember all these actors sitting in the hallway on the floor for like an hour or more while this casting director was you know it was like very dehumanizing feeling like we're gonna get this and I walked, it finally was my turn.

48:09I go in, it was hot. I go in to the, to the thing. And the woman behind the desk was the casting director who was reading the scene with me. Didn't even look at me. I come in and she's like, uh, I said, yeah, Tony Goldman. Yeah, honey, sit down. Uh, okay. Do you have this idea? Read. And she read this thing with me. Didn't look at me once. I read my scene. I'm like, okay, I guess I'm done. And I left like so depressed. And that feeling of like these walls are so high i'll never ever smile so there i was three months later walking into my first rehearsal for this movie and i look back and i see that and i was like never forget this moment because that was the feeling i had was i remembered how those walls just seemed impenetrably high and then here i was like way beyond whatever the hell that pilot yeah what it was probably never was i'm sure i never even became a tv series and now i was in a big mood I was like, oh, okay.

49:06I never appreciate this moment. But the other thing I wanted to share was, you know, many years later or over the years, I would, it took me a long, I would often do that thing of like constantly comparing, okay, so where am I to where I think I need to be or what are the barometers of success that we hold for ourselves? So any project that I was in, like, how's it doing? How's it doing? How's the, how are the reviews? What do people think? How are we comparing? What, you know, all that stuff. And I go, oh, I know I'm not supposed to care about that, but I really do. You know, so, and it was, it would all create this tension in me.

49:43Yeah. And, um, and when I became a film director, so I directed a couple of movies and the first movie I did, did very, very well. It was like a lot of attention. I got a lot of attention for it. It was great. It was a very personal thing. It was very organic the way that it happened. It was beautiful, beautiful experience. the second one was more of like a studio movie and uh was the one where they were like you know gives me really commercial okay so i do this and and i just always try to keep my head level but it did not do well okay and i remember like and it was not honestly it wasn't i was not it wasn't didn't turn out that great i don't think i think it was fine what movie was it it's a movie it was called uh someone like you was a romantic comedy with i know that ashley judd jackman and greg can it was great casmarissa tomei and um that was a good movie i'm sure it was like i'm sure it's perfectly good but it's not it was it was fairly generic okay i gotcha you know it's like a run-of-the-mill rom-com people seem to love it but for me you know critics were kind of dismissive of it and and i think it did okay at the box office but it wasn't like people were like Yeah.

50:47You're the new, whatever it's going to be as huge hit. And it was not. And I, I really, I took it so hard. It shocked me. It was like, I got really depressed after it. And I wasn't that wasn't a project. I was hired to do this. And, but I, I over, and I don't know, I just, it was, it was very, very painful to go through the failure, having had a big success my first time out as a director and everybody oohing and aahing over me and now people are like oh i guess i guess that was a one one and done one and done who knows that's what i thought right no that's the story you're making up right yeah of course yeah you're thinking like okay i'm a vanilla ice here we can yeah we completely create all this crap yeah so then um the next film i did was the one i told you about conviction that took 10 years to make no no no i did one other one between them so i did one a couple years later.

51:44And then when I made the film Conviction, I was 10 years older than that. I'd worked so hard to get that movie made. And, um, and we did it and I made it. And the woman whose story was Betty and Waters was thrilled with it. It was a great thing for the Innocence Project. I, whatever failings the movie may, may have had, I felt like we made the movie I wanted to make. We did that. We made that thing. And when it came out, it was all, again, a lot of hoopla. People go, this is going to be huge. Oscars. It's going to be incredible. It's going to be the one. And I was a little skeptical. Okay, just chill.

52:23Yeah, just hold on. Hold on. And it didn't really perform in the box office. So the studio left like six weeks in the theaters. They were like, we're stopping spending money on this because it wasn't performing for them. So it just, it ended. And I had no, almost no negative reaction. it was kind of amazing. I was like, okay, that's, I have no control over that. I did everything I could to try and get it out there. Maybe it's honestly, maybe it's flawed. Maybe there's things that didn't work. I don't, I don't know. In my opinion, I know I made the thing that was in my heart to make. And we had this incredible experience doing it.

52:59And I thought like hell, almost done to get this thing made. And we did that. I'm not going to let like what's happening today, I'm going to let it invalidate all of that. Really? That's powerful, man. That would be insane. Like, why would I do that? And it was a huge lesson for me. And I was, and I was cool with it. You know, and I, um, you know, my friend, Sam Rockwell, who was in and gave this brilliant performance and Sam, everyone was telling, Oh, Sam, you're going to get an Oscar. And they, and they were, you know, pumping him up. And it was hard for him because he was hearing all that. And I called him.

53:35I was like, man, you're so incredible. And he was like, I started to believe, I started to believe it. And it was really hard. I started to like buy into that. And he's not like that at all. Um, and he's a great artist. And a few years later he won an Oscar. So he's okay at the end of the day. I'm just saying, you know, it was like anybody can fall prey to this. So that was a real lesson to me that I've tried to, tried to hang on to. Uh, cause it, it just made, it made me um enjoy my work and life so much more you know i realized to what degree i was allowing those uh those that that comparison thing uh and the having your eye on the summit all the time to completely just you know invalidate these amazing experiences that we can have man it's hard like very very freaking hard yeah you know and and it's like the one thing that i want the audience to take away from that is, you know, we don't know when things are going to hit.

54:33We don't know. For sure. Nope. And you're going to go through loss and it's going to be painful. I mean, we lost a multimillion dollar deal last two weeks ago. Oh, did you? And I thought my world was done. And then I realized I was being a little bitch about it. I'm like, I don't know. Like what am I, this, this could be a saving grace. Right. Maybe, maybe God saved me from something. It's like, and then I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, Tony. Something could hit tomorrow and it could change everything. And then all of a sudden you're a little bit higher up the wall. Right. But I think, and my wife gets on me about this all the time.

55:11Isn't it's great to have a good woman in your life. I mean, you know, you've been married to your wife since 1987, you know, and, and when I look at my wife, Jackie, it's like, you know, she says, just enjoy where you're at right now. Because if you think it's going to be the end, you're going to attract that. You're going to attract more of that. That's also true. That's very true. That is very true. But the end game is like when, when something hits and I'm able to take my breath and she goes, see, was it worth that? And the answer a hundred percent of the time is no. Yeah. Like let's just be where we're at.

55:46It's hard to, I mean, look, it's great to be ambitious to be passionate to have drive those are all great qualities and it's an expression of passion and you can't you can't make things happen you can't build things if you don't have that yeah but when you do have that it means you care a lot yeah so you're risking disappointment and pain hardish you are it just is so you're like all right that's part of the, that's part of the, it's part of the deal, man. And we're competitors. Yeah. I mean, you're not in your industry. I'm not in my industry. If we're not, if we're not fierce competitors, I'm here, I'm here to win.

56:24You know, I'm not at your expense, but I'm here to beat you. Yeah. Right. Like straight up. Like that's, that's what I'm here to do. And when I look at everything that we've gone through with the determined society and the growth patterns and the doubting from people. Like when I started it, dude, people made fun of me. Like, oh, hell yeah. About what? Just about like, what are you doing, dude? What, you're gonna be Tony Robbins? Like, what are you doing, man? Like, how's your little podcast? I'm sitting here with Tony Goldwyn. Like, it worked out. Like, because I kept going. You know, but I think when people look at, you know, things like building something, you want to compete but you all and there's numbers and you now too we're going to get to this i want to be respectful of your time but i want to i do want to get to the new thing you started with your daughter yeah because that is heavily driven by analytics it's like like how big muscles do i have man like where am i at today in in this podcast industry is like that right but you know to to constantly worry in in not move forward because of what people may think is truly concerning because a lot of people will pull back.

57:38And like I mentioned, man, when I look at everything that we've been through on this show. Now, you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire, all the greats. What do they have in common? They have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now. And it brought me back to my childhood. Knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope. So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges. You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in.

58:11Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions, and buy. And they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers.

58:48Search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store. Download, and you can start selling right away. And building it. And there was times where I'd look at my wife and go, I don't know how much I have left. Yeah. And she goes, you got a lot more left in you. What's the brand? That's a determination, discipline, resilience. So that's who you are. So, yeah, I know. I'm just talking shit. I'm just like, I'm just tired. I'm just tired. And I think it's okay to be tired. I think it's okay in moments like you've had in your career and moments that I've had in building the show. It's okay to think about like, I'm done.

59:27I'm going to quit. But I don't think people really understand, you know, how powerful those moments are because you're able to be, you're able to reflect a little bit and be like, okay, I'll just, I'll just one more day. You get to your why. Like I had that, I've had it several times. I do that all the time. Someone's like, you know, I don't want to do this. I'm done. I don't need to do this. And then I'll go, then that frees me up to go, oh, but I want to. Yeah. Because it's in me. you know like the first time i directed a film this movie a walk on the moon which was like 25 years ago um uh i remember being on set it was so the pressure was so enormous like i just had not experienced like all this money it cost to make it and all these people breathing down your neck about are you on time and you know the budget and all this stuff and you're just trying to you know create this thing and and these producers were giving me shit.

1:00:21And, and, uh, and I was really, and I, I had to take a walk. There's one guy was like on my ass about where we were in the day and my schedule, you know, it was behind schedule, whatever it was. And I, I got up and I went for a walk and I was like, I don't have to do this. Right. Yes. I'm in the middle of this whole thing. I chose to do this. I don't have to do this. I could literally, I can, for me personally, I can make a living as an actor. I can go back just being an actor and make a fine living. It was all good. I do not have to do this. They can, if I want, I can say, you know what? You guys direct this movie.

1:00:56I'm out. See ya. Yeah. And I was like, yes, I could do that. And when I, once I was like, I could just throw in the towel. Then I was like, oh, but I don't want to. I really want to do this and screw them. Like I went back and I was like, shut up. This is what we're doing. I found that the thing of going, And maybe I'm done. Yeah. It can be also a powerful. I think it's very, because you're able to uncover certain things, right? And I've had many points like you're talking about. It's like, wait a second. This is what I love doing. Like, I love doing this. This is not, you know, I think it's all a matter of like, you've mentioned the why, you know, or purpose or what the burn really is and why you do something.

1:01:39I think for a lot of people in, in all I could say our industry now, because you have a pod is they see people ascending to a certain level of social media fame and they think well i can do that too and it'd be nice to you know be bothered by the public and you know say oh i know who you are you're the person that has this show right but they don't realize it doesn't happen like that very often right you know and the problem is when you get into it out of this vanity aspect of like I just want to be known and I want to be seen. If that were my case, I would have been done five years ago, like maybe three months after I started.

1:02:18Yeah. But for me, it's this deep rooted sense of purpose is like, I truly feel that someone's going to listen to our interview and they're going to listen to the words that you say, and it's going to change their life. And that's what we're here to do. Yeah. It's for hope. Yeah. Like no one ever said this shit was going to be easy. And I'm talking about life. it's hard and it's not supposed to be like it's no good if it's easy okay it's not good but we but they but we want it to be right because it's comfortable yeah but then but but then to make friends with the discomfort so that you're it's like being an athlete you know if you're not feeling the pain like you're doing something wrong if you're not you know and then you're like okay well that's just what it that's what it is my daughter was a my wife and my my eldest started were rowers and uh my night before i was like a champ national champion in college and then anna was a d1 rower at ucla and so that sport is painful man and um you know the they i when i listen to her talk about the training that they had to do it's like way more than anything i ever did it was just making friends with the pain you know because they like to win yeah and they like the the the all the things that came with the teamwork and the bond and all the you know the challenge and all of that but the the discomfort of it you know you can't do that sport i mean any sport on a high level and not so what what keeps you in it what is that thing you know that constantly trying to get better or absolutely i mean everything every day i go to work is when i I say like the, why am I here?

1:04:00What am I grateful for to be here? It's always like, oh, how can I get better? How can I do this better? How can we make this? What else can we do here that we haven't done or that can be more interesting? It's never, oh, someone's going to come up to me on the street and tell me how great I am. Or I'm going to get a great review. Someone's going to write something nice about me. Those are pleasant moments. Like that's pleasant. That was cool. says, Hey man, love, love what you do. Like how many jobs can you have for someone? That's really nice. But it isn't to me, it has nothing to do with the work itself.

1:04:37Yeah. That, that was also a period of the separation, a distinction I learned well along the way was those, that validation has, is a completely separate thing from the work itself. Yep. It's not, it's positive and it's a bummer if somebody hates it you're like oh that's too bad yeah but it doesn't it doesn't i know what i'm doing i know what like i'm i'm doing my thing here some you know what i mean the reaction it's super nice and exciting when you get like the hoopla or something really works out or you make a ton of money or whatever it is that's great but do you know what i'm saying i'm just listening like separating out from the the process itself is like completely i feel it's completely.

1:05:20And the way I evaluate it, I may be doing something and I'm like, that's not good enough. Someone else may come and go, Oh, I love that. I'm like, thank you. I'm glad you do. Yeah. I don't. So I got to keep working on it or something I think is amazing. And someone's like dismissive of it. It's like too bad. You don't like it. I love it. So sorry. Yeah. But no, you said the word process, man, like that, that word right there is so powerful and people overlook it all the time. You have to have a plan, you know, and you have to understand not just what you need to do in order to get to that point, the top of the Mount Rushmore, but you got to think about who I need to become.

1:06:00Like, what does that person do every day? Do they sleep in? Do they break their word to themselves? Yeah, right. Or do they follow through on every freaking thing that they say they're going to do? And if you can do that, just like you said, you might hit a wall and it might take you right to somewhere where you don't even know it's what's over there, but it could be the thing because you stayed in your process. I just think it's super important for people to understand that real quickly. You know, let's talk about the pod real quick. It's with Anna, right? Yeah. My daughter, Anna. Yeah. You guys are good.

1:06:29We have this, we got very, so, uh, I can't remember if we even talked about it yet, but so I think you mentioned it, like I'm the third generation of people in show business in my family and my daughters are the fourth. Um, so Anna and I got really interested. We were joking about the whole Nepo baby thing. And, um, she was actually going to do something with her cousin, like a comedy podcast about Nepo babies. Cause she's a, she's a television writer and a screenwriter. So, but we started talking about it seriously. And we were like, you know, we love the fact that we can talk about whether we're in the same business.

1:07:01Like it's a real unique thing that we share. And ultimately, even though my dad had a lot of trepidation at the beginning, it ended up being a very important part of our relationship that we had this intimacy that we shared. We had the shared a passion for this business. So we thought, wouldn't it be cool to do a podcast where we talk to other parents and children who work in the same business and find out what their relationships are like. So cool. So, um, we call it far from the tree and we launched in September, I think. Um, and we've done, I guess 24, 25 episodes now, but we've interviewed actors and like we started with Jane Fonda and her son, Troy Garrett, he is a wonderful actor.

1:07:38We've done, you know, a lot of athletes. So we just had a great episode with Sarah Strong and her mom, Allison Feaster. Sarah's the, you know, star of UConn women's basketball. I was having a, right in the thick of it at the moment. Yes. And her mom, Allison, was a WNBA player and played collegially for Stanford and now works for the Celtics. And they're these two amazing women. We did also in sports, we've interviewed Coach Vic Schaefer, who's the head coach of the University of Texas women's basketball team. And his daughter is his assistant coach. Oh, my God. That's interesting. And we're talking about their relationship.

1:08:16And that was awesome. But lots of actors and musicians and people in business. And today we recorded this amazing episode with these two women who are activists in Louisiana, in St. James Parish, Louisiana. they live in this place called a cancer alley which is a 75 mile stretch of chemical and plastic plants that you know are the highest cancer rate maybe in the world wow and um uh uh sharon the mom you know in 2018 said this has got to stop and she had a call in from god and she said i'm going to do some of this and she started this organization called rise and uh within you know i think she's was named on the times 100 list of most influential people in 2020, like three or four years later.

1:09:09So cool. And it's become this big and they've really shut down plants and they've, you know, then so this, and her daughter works and, you know, took on this mantle with her and they're activists together in Oregon. So talking to people who have a shared passion. So that's what we, that's what we do. And we have these amazing conversations. And sometimes we'll do it with, we do one with our family. We do one with Jane, my wife, and we do one with our daughter, Tana's sister, Tess. and sometimes we just talk to each other, but mainly we have these amazing accomplished guests. I'm looking forward to that one coming out because that is generational change.

1:09:40Like that's massive, dude. Holy shit. That one hits hard. Yeah. That one hits hard. That's going to change lives. Yeah. No, these two, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's been really cool. And just getting to do this with my kid, like we had the best time. I literally, you know, try and find things to give us a reason to be together. She lives in LA and I'm here and I'm in New York. Yeah, it was really just like, let's do a project together. That's so cool, man. I love the fact that you make fun of the Nepo baby thing. I don't really believe in that because if you weren't as good as you are and if, you know, I mean, you can look at LeBron James and Ron.

1:10:20Oh my God, look at that. I mean, yeah, he might be there because of it, but I mean, to stay there is up to him. Dude, it's got to have game. You got to have game. And you have games. You're not an Epo baby, man. You had opportunities. Yeah, absolutely. And you made the best out of them. Absolutely. And the other thing that makes me laugh is like, if you were a plumber, you'd go, well, of course you're a plumber. Your dad was a plumber. Like you took over the family plumbing business. Or if you're a doctor and your father or mother were doctors, well, then of course you're a doctor. So somehow in, I don't know, in other parts of our culture, it's suddenly, somehow it's like this, it's taken on this negative thing.

1:10:56it's not why we're doing it, but that's just amusing to me. And especially because I've found to be such a privilege to have, to have that. I think it boils down to one thing, man. It's all good. As long as you're not doing astronomically better than somebody. And it, once you do, and it's so high profile, they're like Nepo baby. Oh, maybe that's what it is. Yeah. If you're a plumber, like someone's going to give a shit. That's right. It's like, you know, like, and so that's just, that's just how I feel about it. You know, one day I think my kids will take over this because I think it's going to be my girls.

1:11:29Specifically, I think it's going to be my seven-year-old. And Matt probably knows because, you know, he's very close to my family too. And Mia is just a shame. Well, it'll be a media empire by then. It will be. There'll be a show for all three of them. Don't look to the top of Everest, but I'm telling you, that's what it's going to be. Dang it, man. I know. Seriously. Just know that it's there. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. It's just there. It's just hard. Sitting up there and, you know. You know, I believe that whatever we put out and then we enthusiastically act upon, that's what happens. That eventually comes to pass in your life.

1:12:03It does, 100%. But you have to be aligned and you have to work your tail off, man. And that's just the one thing that you've done. That's the one thing that I've done. Anybody with any amount of significant success to get even a quarter way up that damn mountain, you better work. it's just a work when that's been the freeing thing for me is it's not magic. It's just like, and you don't have to like kill yourself. You just need to keep, keep at it. Keep just have a work ethic and be, um, like a therapist that I want. So he was like, have a workman, just a task task oriented mentality. Yep. A workman like thing.

1:12:40Like, Oh, okay. What's now? What are we going to do? What are we going to do? We just keep, keep at it. And then there are moments of, of, uh, elation, like, wow, wow. Yeah. That's, um, Sometimes it's really exciting, but a lot of times it feels like drudgery or, but just do it. It's like training, you know? For me, it's the chase, right? So like, not the chase, it's a bad way to put it. But like when, in our business and like, you know, like when you have a really interesting guest that's about to come on, you get excited about it, right? Yeah, for sure. Don't you? So it's like when you have that and then you're going through the whole scheduling thing and you're back and forth with PR and then all of a sudden it hits, you're like, oh, like that's the moment.

1:13:21but when the cameras are on, that's game time. Yeah. Right. And then you look back at it at the finished product and you're so grateful for how it turned out. But I know for me, like when I look back at this interview, I'm going to go back in my mind, I'm going to go back to DC. It's like being in the right place at the right time. Cause I decided to show up. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I mean, how many people would sit there in that room and, and be afraid to come up to see, come up to you. Yeah. I'm like, nah, man. to hell with that. Like I'm going to say, what's up?

1:13:52Yeah. You know? And, and let me read the energy here and see what he's about. And it just, my point is, it's just. Now you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire, all the greats, what they have in common, they have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now. And it brought me back to my childhood, knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope. So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges. You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in.

1:14:28Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions and buy, and they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers.

1:15:05Search Whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the App Store. download and you can start selling right away. Success is so cool because it leaves the breadcrumbs to what actually got you there, you know, and it's just doing the work, you know, and I, and my definition of determination is this, it's simple doing what you said you were going to do long after the emotion wears off. So you can, and it's quiet. I used to think early on, I used to think that was this roaring thunder look at me hustle culture i'm gonna bury you type shit it's not some days it's you taking your shoes on and off 10 times before you actually walk out of the door and get to the gym that's right it's quiet yeah no that's sort of what i was saying before yeah about the task oriented thing because also the the hard charging thing as i was having me exhausting that's that that can become overwhelming.

1:16:03Like, cause also when you're like, sometimes we'll have a lot going on and I'm like, I gotta be doing this. I gotta be doing that. I go, then it can be quite overwhelming. Like I'm never going to be, or I'm never going to be able to work hard enough to get to whatever it is. And you just go quiet. Like I don't have to do that. I just got to do one little thing. Just got to, you know, and maybe, maybe, or punishing yourself. I didn't get to the gym. It's like, no, maybe I have to go take my shoes. That's what's happening today. Yeah. You know, How about you the other day? I just don't have my shit together today.

1:16:34But I'm going to go. Yeah. I'm going to get there. And once you get there, you struggle through the first set. Yeah. Get some water. You wait a minute. Wait two minutes because you don't really want to do it. Right. But somehow something's magic about the second and third set. Yeah, that's right. You're in a flow state now. That's it. All right, I'm here. I'm going to get my effort. Yeah. And what, to your point is, is like task oriented. what that really is for me is like the way I equate that is I just remove the emotion from the task. If I can remove the emotion from it. That's great. Right.

1:17:05And it's just like, this is what I said I was going to do. Yeah. My emotions don't fucking matter. Right. So if, you know, I had to make, I don't like the word had in the morning when I get to make breakfast for all three of my children and have my coffee while after the gym, while they're eating at the little island in the kitchen and I'm also standing up eating and talking to them. I would never emotionally shut down and not do that for them. They're my children. So it's like, when I look at things in terms of, of doing the task, it's just like, I'm, I'm not going to bring emotion to it now because there's other emotions going on, right?

1:17:45Of wanting to be successful and wanting to, you know, overcome and wanting to be the face of this industry because I know if I can get there, then I'm helping more people with actual impactful conversations instead of, you know, but that's the result that will just happen as a result of the incremental stuff. One day, but it's like, I mean, parenting, I found very much that like 90 % of everything in life is showing up 95%. So like with kids, it, the things of a, what a beautiful thing. Those, you know, those making breakfast for your kids. I mean, I wish I asked have those days back, you know, when I was doing that every day or, you know, so, um, but I realized you think, oh my God, parenting is so hard.

1:18:30Or there's going to be this, these obstacles or what, how do I, you know, you think of the big swings, like what, what am I going to, and you realize that, no, actually it's just, just being present for the dumb stuff as much as you possibly can. And you're not going to be able to do all of it, but that, that those little things where nothing really happens or no do you know what i mean yeah that's a cruise to people creating people who feel they have the solid foundation and just they know that you love them and they know they're just things are never in question and they're always there it's not like the big oh we had this amazing talk today and we you know we saw this big problem it doesn't have to be that those aren't the things those happen but those aren't the the determinative things so the same thing i find it's just like the task oriented things that keep that, like, how do you get in shape?

1:19:18People ask me like, how do you stay in shape? Like you're older and how do you, and I'm like, well, I just do it every day. Like I don't have to go and hit a hard workout every day. I don't have time to do that. Sometimes I do, I really like to, but if I, if I do something every day and then if I skip a day for whatever reason, okay, I skipped a day. Uh, but the next day I want to, you know, if I just do something every day uh i've i don't know i'm just it then i'm on the road and and um that's that's everything that's consistency and that's compounding interest man compounding interest you know it's not about these astronomical you know swings of you know getting in shape it's like losing i gotta lose 50 pounds or no no just move yeah like isn't that the win like like move Get on the process and the progress of that goal and to not measure yourself every single day of out of shame.

1:20:15Because there was a long time where I could not get in shape. Let me explain. I could, but I wouldn't because I was shaming myself because I hated the way I look. You can't get anywhere like that. It has to be, again, taking the emotion out of it. Okay, I need to eat better. What does that mean? okay so then you don't eat you know the fast food all the time you don't eat this you don't you're not shoving cookies you know in your mouth at 9 p.m right doing the thing and moving your body and then all of a sudden things start to happen yeah you know and it becomes not just something that you feel like is a chore to do but it's i get to go do this well then it becomes a habit because then then yeah that's the thing about fitness for example is even just a little bit ever the regulator then if i don't do it my body's like what what yeah what are you doing and you can't sleep and eat healthy you know if you then eat crap your body's like all right you just ate craps you're about to pass out but it's not but um you know it's yeah it's just giving yourself like this doing in small bites is just fine the other thing is that um the the what we were talking about before the the the constant evaluation uh i feel that we have to be very disciplined about that but not allowing ourselves to be in constant evaluation you know once in a while yeah we check ourselves in the mirror okay yeah i'll look the way i want to look yeah the leave that shit yeah it's why i like social media gives me so much anxiety because i i like i do social media for you know it's part of our worst part of our promotional system that's what it's up we have to we do it's it's a useful tool and it can be fun but i find it gives me tremendous anxiety so i pretty much try and stay off it as much as i can or like because as soon as you start like checking wait how many followers do i have how many likes did i get how did this do you don't even give me fucking star so once in a while like check it you go oh yeah that's nice okay that's where i'm at fine yeah and you either get a dopamine hit or you're like, oh, summer.

1:22:20But if you're doing that all the time as a habit, but it's the same thing. It's like working out in the gym and every day going, how am I looking or how many am I? I'm on the scale every twice a day. The scale doesn't tell you anything about your body. Checking your investments every second. Like how am I stock? That's insane. Am I billionaire yet? What the hell's going on? And you're not going to ever know, just live your life and then check back. it's funny because um i mentioned to you before i had the ted talk last weekend yeah and um you know there was there like my my team was there taking pictures and you know they took professional pictures as well and there's a bunch of video that's not out yet but you need to let the measuring stick be what the proof actually is so you never know what you look like because we're talking about fitness now you don't know what your work even looks like until you look back at it and you see the finished product, which I don't think I'm a finished product by any means, but I saw the pictures on the stage and my friend was making fun of me because I sent it to him.

1:23:23He's like, dude, did they put a muscle filter on you? He's like, what happened to you? I was like, I don't know. I'm just, it's every day. It's every day. Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm actually blown away by what this looks like because I did not think that's what it was. Because I didn't focus on it. Right. You know, and I just - And we have body dysmorphia and we can't - evaluate. Mine's bad. Can't evaluate. Yeah. Yeah. That's why like when I don't, I don't even looking at myself, evaluating my work as an actor, you know, it used to make me insane when I was younger because I'd watch stuff and I'd be so highly self-critical.

1:24:01I literally had to go to a psychotherapist about it because I started to become very, very tense in my work as an actor because I was so self-critical that I'd watch my go, and that wasn't good. Or, you know, so every time I'd get up to work, I'd be like, oh, I'm going to beat my own ass after I'm done with this. Yes. I'm going to punish myself. But I'm trying to get better. I'm demanding. I'm tough on myself. I thought that was supposedly a good thing. And I went to this shrink. I was like, you're not allowed to do that anymore. He said, so every time you do a piece of work, whatever it is, a stage performance or a take on a movie set or an audition or whatever, it ends.

1:24:37You take 10 seconds. What did I learn? Did I achieve what I wanted? did I, did I achieve what I set out to do? How did I, what can I learn from that? Okay, done. Never think about it again. Never think about it again. It was so hard, but I was like, it was like an extra that had to, it was like, never think about it again. And what started happening was I became very disinterested in watching myself or even in evaluating what I did. It wasn't that became not interesting to me. And what became interesting to me was the doing of it. Like that was cool like that was interesting and also sometimes frustrating like oh i feel like how do i find but i was present in it right as opposed to it always being uh how am i looking in the mirror how's my you know measuring my whatever you know if you're a weightlifter or whatever because you cannot be it's not you you're not a good judge of yourself no i i'm clearly not like i'm sorry you know i mean it just it is one of those things man it it doesn't equate to actually what's going on, what reality is.

1:25:40But you can't, I think it's impossible to be if you do it constantly. Like imagine what a terrible parent you would be. Oh my God. If you were constantly evaluating your kid, like, how are you today? So what, how did school? So what did you get this today? Did you get that today? How was your, you know, do that you destroy your child and you would have no joy in parenting. So we could check in with our kids. Like they're doing fine. That's all good. Yeah. Oh, the great. You had that up moment. Oh, downside. Oh, bummer. you know what I mean? So, so how's it generally going? I guess generally it's going pretty good, you know?

1:26:12Yep. Is that, that's anyway, that I mean, I hear you, man. It's just important. I mean, I think the, the, the moral of everything we're saying is just, just do the thing, man, do what you love to do. And, um, if you don't have the opportunity to do what you love to do full time, do something else, but also do what you love as well. Yeah. Do what you have to do to do what you want. Yeah. That's what I was trying to say. Like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You He took the words right out of my mouth. But I mean, I just think it's important because we have to enjoy this life. We get one shot, one shot. And I found what I loved to do when I was 42 years old.

1:26:45I was 42, dude. So I'm almost 48. Yeah. And, you know, I could sit here and say, I'm so fucking behind. I could. No, I could. Behind what? I mean, exactly. Right. I was like, I don't know. Right. I would say you're ahead. Well, I mean. Or you're where you are, but. Right. But it's like, that's a beautiful thing to have found something. Yeah. Like I truly enjoy like, and, and I know I would do it for free if I had the opportunity because I did it for free for almost four freaking years. It took that long. And you know, it was just something that I loved so much. It's like, Oh man, like I love this more than I love to play baseball.

1:27:21And that's, and when, dude, when I said that to my, my, my wife and my son, my son shot like this and said, what did you say? I go, it's not even close, bro. Wow. It's not even close. Baseball is my first love. And she's still my mistress. You put me on a baseball field, I don't want to be around any of you people. Right. Like, I can go hide there. I will literally hide on a baseball field and enjoy myself. But this is just better. Yeah. I just love it. I love it so much. Dude, thank you so much, Tony. Oh, it's awesome. This has been so much fun. Sounds so fun. We'll have to keep in touch. And, you know, I'm definitely going to come to the Broadway.

1:27:57Oh, do. Yeah, yeah. So hopefully later this year, you know. It's going to be in 26 or is it going to be 27? It depends on, we're now trying to find out when the theater's available. Okay. Because that's the game of Broadway. You know, what's going to close, what's going to be. So we're trying to find the right space for it. But it all looks good. So I'll let you know. I will be there with bells on. Yeah. I want to go to the opening night. Okay. I want to go to that. Stay in touch. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, for sure. That'd be really cool. Thank you. Well, thank you again, bud. Like this has been a real treat and such an open and honest conversation.

1:28:28Yeah, your show's great, man. That was really a cool conversation. Thank you. I love your show too. I do watch it. I do watch it. I'm proud of what you and your daughter Anna are doing together. That's really, really freaking cool, man. Cool, man. We'll check out Far From the Tree. Far From the Tree. And you know what we'll do is I will make sure that they link that. Oh, that'd be amazing. I can link it in the show notes at the bottom of every thing. So check out Far From the Tree. And anything I can do, man, like we have each other's numbers now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know this is a completely different industry, you know, and there's a lot of things that are moving constantly.

1:29:01Yeah, I might hit you up for some advice. Yeah. Anytime. Because I'm always like, what are we doing? Dude, any freaking time open invite, I would be more than honored to help out. Great, great. All right, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Share this episode with somebody you know, love and trust. A lot of great advice from Tony on, you know, persevering through hard times with your career and even parenting. So, and also, you know, second chapters and starting new things and doing fun things with your children. So I thank you guys so much. And what I really want you guys to do is share this episode with everybody, you know, love and trust.

1:29:39And until next time, guys, stay determined.