The Young Men Crisis | Discipline, Mental Health & Cultural Perspective

26:29And, you know, I didn't know until today you coach baseball. Right. And so like all of this makes sense, right. The easy connection, the, I mean, we're, we're in line with our ideologies here, both baseball coaches, like baseball, baseball dudes, you can, once you meet someone, you know, someone's a baseball dude, right? But for me, there was a lot of different mentors through me playing baseball that taught me things that my father didn't, that maybe taught me patience, maybe taught me certain things on how to respond instead of react. So again, there's many ways to get that mentorship in your life and it doesn't have to be a father.

27:07I mean, look, I grew up without a biological father. And my mom married my dad, who I call my, I mean, he's my dad, my dad and I was like eight or nine that's my dad right you know but I know what that's like and I just think it's you know when I look at my children you know I'm not perfect now you may have seen the buzz but let me give you the inside scoop Babe Ruth Barry Bonds Ken Griffey Jr. Mark McGuire all the greats what they have in common they have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now and it brought me back to my childhood knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope.

27:43So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges. You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in. Whatnot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions and buy, and they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces.

28:25That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. search whatnot w-h-a-t-n-o-t in the app store download and you can start selling right away shocker which i fall short you know so much and i fell short yesterday you know i i flipped my lid you know and i'm paying for that today because i look back at it and it's like i could have done better. Like I could have done so much better. And it's funny because I never lose it on my son. It's my daughters. And I don't know why that is. I think I know why that is. I just feel like with my daughters, like sometimes I just can't win.

29:12You know what I mean? It's like, can't connect fully? Like, no, I can. I mean, like I'm super close with them, but it's like, I feel like I you can even go down to like what I cook for dinner like there's only so many times like you can hear like I don't like that or like oh that's what we're having it's like I've just spent the last two hours doing this you know so like I I don't claim to be this all the time I am a human being and I struggle I think one of the biggest things that I have to work through is, is simply that like the response instead of the react. And, and it's so hard when you're in the middle of it, but it's like, my wife said this to me yesterday.

29:57She goes, if you can't control your emotions as an adult, how do you expect your children to? It was like, it really pissed me off at the moment. Oh yeah. Nobody wants to hear that. It's like, dude, I'm your, this is like 3 % of my whole life that this happens. I'm 97 % spot on. But, you know, and then I think another emotion that comes is like the disappointment, you know, like I, I, I'm so disappointed in myself when, when, when things like that happen. Can I pat you on the back though? Yeah, sure. So the first thing you said, even before you went into the story, you owned up, I'm flawed. I lose my temper even before you talked about it on who you were losing it on like and you said the quote I think you literally said I need to be better I don't think 25 percent of men would be able to verbally say that stuff out loud they're going to come up with some excuse or they're going to blame like I was just talking to somebody's dad the other day and it was after it was after a sporting event and he ripped his son I mean literally called him a pussy yeah after and this was after a, after the dude had gotten injured and kept playing and lost because of the injury, dad's still cousin of a pussy.

31:13And I talked to him and I tried to keep calm because I wanted to, you wanted to reach. Yeah. You, yeah, I know what you wanted. Exactly. And I just said, Hey, what was your goal out of that conversation? And of course he's not going to answer that. He's too, he's too defensive. And I said, if you had it to do over again, would you do it differently? and he goes no because he needs to be tough and like it's it was always just pointing outward so the fact that you pointed inward and said like i mess up i gotta get better that separates you from so many men right now it's sadly it's easy to separate ourselves from a lot of men these days but the other thing you said in terms of the uh i forget the word you said we were talking about your daughters but there is a reason that that so many men are workaholics is because we get the respect at work because we can control the outcome so much, or at least have more of an influence over the outcomes.

32:05But we get home, especially with daughters, we got no control over outcomes and we can't figure out how we got there. So we, we feel disrespected and we don't really know it. So we tend to start withdrawing from that, from the home situations and stay more at work where we kind of get that sense of like, okay, I can make a difference. I can get the outcomes I want. That's a great point, man. I mean, it's a really good point because it's like there's only so much a man can take. Right. And, you know, over the last month, you know, I've been told by my wife, like, Hey, you're, you're escalating a little more.

32:39I know you're stressed. Like, you know, you're taking it out on me and it's hurtful. And I'm like, Oh, I don't feel like I am. And, you know, I look back at it today. I was like, okay, Like I see it. There are reasons and it's not what she or they think. It's not the stress from the job. It's certain stressors to where I feel I'm falling short at home. Yeah. And I'm not trying to, it's like I cook every meal, you know, I make sure the kitchen's cleaned. I make sure like, you know, I help out with the laundry when I can. And I, I, I, but I just feel like sometimes it's like, it's not enough. And that's hard for a man because I am so busy.

33:27I am doing a lot. I'm constantly moving. If I get a text during the day, can I got an order from target or Sephora? Can you go pick it up? Like, dude, that that's taking time out of my day. Yeah. That you don't have. That I don't have, but I, but I, but I do it because I want to serve and, and I'll get very agitated if I feel underappreciated. Boom. Yeah. And that's so common. We do need to be appreciated. It's like earlier you talked about people feeling seen and heard, whether it be in comment sections or whatever, like that's what a man needs. It's like, there's an old book called Love and Respect and we need both, but generally speaking, women need a little more love than respect and generally men need a little more respect than love.

34:13And so if we just hear those words like, Hey, thank you. Like, I appreciate what you're doing. We'll run through a wall for somebody, especially our wife. So yeah, you're normal. Congratulations. I'm a normal man. But the other issue is whenever we blow up or we give some sort of reaction, if it's generally like on a scale of one to 10, if it's like a six or above, that's the indication that it's not really about what's happening in this moment. 1 billion percent. Yeah. 1 billion percent. We carry around labels from, from our past and limiting beliefs. And so whatever happened in this moment, probably hit that bruise that hasn't fully healed yet.

34:48And our nervous system doesn't know time. So it thinks that we're like in this moment, but it's also when we're eight years old. So we just get all reacting. And that's a hard thing to unravel too. And unwind. So for the audience there, how, how does one go through? Because for me, like when that situation happened, happened, it was like, it was a seven. It wasn't eight, nine or 10, but it was, it was border. It was in between a six and a seven for sure. I'm going to give myself a seven on that one. Yes, sir. And, you know, to a point where I barely spoke the rest of the day and this morning, you know, and, and then I think, you know, as a father, it's like, I just sent my kids off to school, you know, and you never know what's going to happen in this day and age.

35:31Now, again, I'm not saying that I had a bad morning with my children. I didn't, you know, I loved on them, but I wasn't a hundred percent me. I was feeling a little wounded from last night. And also the shame of disappointing your wife two days before your anniversary. Oh gosh. Yeah. So tomorrow's our seven year wedding anniversary. And you know, so that'll be after this coming, it'll be the, you know, February 21st is our, sorry, 24th is our anniversary. And I was just like, how do you fuck that up sean like how do you how do you honestly fuck it up so bad in that moment and everything was fine that one moment bomb goes off and it's like what's wrong with him well your guess is as good as mine you know what i mean like yeah you know can i can i dig on that yeah please man go for it i don't want to pry here no go for it that voice is a job interview, by the way, I'm thinking about hiring you for real.

36:29I mean, that is true, but this is not a job, but anyway, go ahead. So that voice that said, all right, Sean, how do you fuck that up that badly? Did that sound like somebody from your past? That's first question. And then two, did that voice carry with it? Like you're a failure or was it more of a curious tone? Like, how did you mess that up? No. So I don't know exactly how to answer your first question. I will say that I grew up around a lot of yelling. And so I think what it does is it brings me there. And it's like, I don't want my children to see that, but there's times where I fail and they do see that, you know, I'm not aggressive.

37:09I don't throw shit. I don't hit things. I don't put my hands on people. But when I go, I go, you know, because there's also a competitive spirit for me. Like, I know, I want you to know that I'm right. Like, this is not the deal. Right. And so I think it plays on, you know, shame. Yep. Right. Like that I escalated to that point to where I now responsibly have to do damage control. And those are hard moments, man. I mean, they teach me a lot. What they really teach me is, is like, Sean, you have a lot of growing to do. And I'm, I'm here for it, man. Like I'm 47. seven. I got a lot of life left, you know, hopefully.

37:52Yeah. Right. Um, but, but like, yeah, to me, man, it just plays on like, I didn't like to hear that when I was a kid. And then I just put that in front of my kids. So I don't think it was a, you know, a moment of like constructive criticism. I think it was more a moment of shame. Sure. Sure. And I'm glad you used that word shame because that really is the word, but I've also found that most men don't really want to use that word. They don't really resonate with it. So what I found is two things. the stuff from our past, I hate using the word trauma because it's just so overused. It is. And guys, again, don't really connect to it.

38:25So I use the word injuries because, you know, we're athletes. We know some of my favorite conversations with guys like, hey, what's your worst injury ever? Like you can talk for hours, right? That's good shit. And so same idea. Like we get the internal injuries and just because we can't see them, we think they're not there. But it's those moments from like your past when you were around a lot of yelling, that left injuries inside of you. And then when something happens that makes you feel like you're not good enough, because that's what shame is. So we got injuries and we got not good enough. What happens is those moments in the past that leave those injuries in us, they also leave messages or like meanings that we attach to them or connect to them.

39:01And so often it's like, well, because this event happened that hurt me, this must also mean that I'm not good enough because if I was good enough, it wouldn't have happened. And so a lot of times the things that we react to in the moment is because, again, it's hitting that old injury. And then the ways we talk to ourself, it usually sounds like, well, you did this again. So that means you're not good enough. And like, how did you screw this up again? Like, it's the same cycle that keeps going over and over. Dude, thank you for that. Because, you know, and for the men and even the women listening, like when you have a certain event happen with your kids.

39:38Yep. You can't take that back. And what, I think what makes, I don't want to say me special, but yeah, I'll say one of my gifts is like really feeling that and going, do I want to be the reason my daughter is hurting right now? Now you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire, all the greats. What do they have in common? They have collectibles, and they're being sold on WhatNot right now. And it brought me back to my childhood. Knowing that I can get my hands on something cool like that really gives me hope. So if you're selling online or out of a storefront, full-time or as a side hustle, you already know the challenges.

40:29You're hoping for people to find your listing or waiting for them to walk in. WhatNot flips that right on its head. On Whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real time. They see what you've got, they ask questions, and buy. And they keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform, whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury fashion, or heck, even cookies. Sellers are building real, thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on Whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces.

41:05That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. Search whatnot, W-H-A-T-N-O-T in the app store, download, and you can start selling right away. Like, no, you know, and I, and I know my children think the world of me, dude. Like I, I know, I know they know their dad, but those moments, man. Like those are so hard, dude. You know, especially as a man. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Cause we want to be the superhero and always come through. It goes back to when we're kids. Like we want to be the guy that provides and protects. So when we don't do that perfectly, yeah, it's going to hurt.

41:45Yeah. But we got to, yeah. And we got to deal with the stuff in the past that keeps us in the cycle. Cause if you don't deal with the past stuff, it's just, it's basically you arm wrestling with yourself. Like I got to do better today. Yeah. But there's still something in you that's injured and that's what's causing some of the explosive reactions. Let's dig into that real quick because it is so hard for people to go back and see what their past injuries are. And I know you do EDMR. Does that help? It can. Yeah. So there's all kinds of different ways to deal with the past injuries or traumas. EMDR is, we don't have to say the fancy full name, but it's basically - I don't even know the full name, dude.

42:24Yeah. And it's eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. There you go. So now we've nerded out, which I hate doing, but it works. And let me go back to what you said about talk therapy and how it doesn't work for men. I will, I don't mind getting clipped on this. Talk therapy generally does not work for men. Like a conversation works for men because we need to talk, we need to be heard. But in terms of making the actual changes at the root, talk therapy doesn't get it because talk therapy hits the front of the brain, which is where our rational, logical thinking is, but the stuff, the roots are in the subconscious brain and talking doesn't reach the subconscious brain because your subconscious doesn't speak English.

43:01Like I put it in the book. I have this, this concept called the caveman. The caveman is responsible for all those like outbursts and instincts. And he doesn't speak English. He lives in your subconscious. And so you could sit here and talk it out all day, but it ain't going to touch him because he speaks a different language. He speaks things like EMDR or breathing or other types of movements and therapy. So when I, when I meet with a guy in a, in a truly therapeutic way, we do a lot of talking at first, but that's just to build a connection. Of course. And then once they trust me enough, then we get into the subconscious stuff.

43:33So EMDR is one of those ways. And it works with eye movement, the kind of the back and forth eyes or tapping with your legs or tapping on your shoulders. Cause again, it's, it's bypassing that brain, the front of the brain and getting to the roots a whole lot faster. What are some other ways that you reach that caveman in the subconscious? My favorite way is internal family systems. Like have you ever seen the movie Inside Out, the first or the second one? Yeah. I've seen both of them. Yeah. Like that, I hate complimenting certain things that Disney does, but that movie, they took five years of my grad school and they shrank it into two hours of a movie.

44:08It is genius. Really? I mean, I'm sitting there, I took my nieces and nephews to it and they're laughing and having fun. At the same time, I see what they're actually doing with the scene. I'm over look at me. So what happens is in that movie, they really do show that these characters, there are these parts in us and the parts are not us. So if we start beating ourselves up, like with your explosion, like, yes, it came out of you, but that wasn't the real you that exploded. That was a part in you that felt threatened, like the caveman. And so when the caveman feels threatened, he thinks you're literally going to die.

44:45It's like, I'll give with a quick lowdown of the caveman. So he thinks that anything is might kill you. And he was really helpful back in the days when we were out hunter gatherers, like having to kill our food and live out in the wild. Like if you heard something rustling in the bushes, like that might be a bear. So you need your caveman to put you into fight or flight mode. Now, I mean, we're in comfortable indoor settings, so he kind of has no job, but he's, he's pretty dumb. He's really good at the one thing of keeping you alive, but he's sitting there bored looking for a job. So he'll look at something like a speech or a confrontation, like an uncomfortable confrontation with your wife or your boss.

45:23And he thinks, well, if it's uncomfortable, it might kill us. So we got to, we got to bow up or we got to run away. And so we have to do things that are ways that speak to him. So again, IFS is like, it's, you kind of, you close your eyes and it's, it's a, it's a weird spooky thing at first, but it's not spooky because there's research behind it, but you actually have to have little imaginary conversations in your own head with these little parts. And like at first, cause I tried it as a client first before I ever got trained in it. And like, that's the only type of therapy that really broke through.

45:57Really? And so I've never heard of that one. Internal family systems. Yeah. IFS. It's really interesting because like, to your point, it's like when you, I've never, so again, conversation, right. Helps. Yeah. Like I've never had anybody break down to me what the subconscious is. Yeah. It's like, okay, it's a cave. It's, it's your caveman. It doesn't speak English. It's based on wiring. Yes. You know, past injuries, the fight or flight, I have to protect or I have to kill or be killed. Exactly. Because that's what happened way back in the day. You know, that, that's just an interesting, that dude, that's, that's pretty damn cool, man.

46:32Because I, now I kind of understand it a little bit more. I said, okay, this isn't me. this is that guy you know but we gotta we gotta find ways to tame him right right and so like because i i don't find it helpful when he comes out no but he'll come out on he'll come out on certain things you know for me and i love conversations like this because it it gives more connection with the guests but also gives the audience a really big peek behind me and i think the one thing that makes this show really good is that I'm not afraid to share it. Love it. I'm not because if it helps someone cool. Yeah.

47:09But like, dude, these moments, man, when, when they hit, it's usually because I feel threatened. There you go. It's like, you're trying to take something from me. You know, it could be with the business. It could, you know, the show, it could be anything like that. And the moment I feel like someone's trying to take my shit, I can't shut it off. Yeah. You know, and my wife always says like, you go zero to 60 like that. And it's very few and far between, but when you do, like I, I got, I got to remove myself. Yeah. It's because I'm truly at that moment in time, overly emotional. Yeah. That's right.

47:50Across from six up, up over to six. Gone. And what's your, what you just said is you got to remove yourself, that is the exact way to handle it. You're never going to be perfect enough to never have the reaction. So if you keep beating yourself up for having the reaction, nothing's going to change. But if you remove yourself so that you don't do more damage and then just get curious, then you can break the pattern. But so many guys, because of past experiences, again, we beat ourselves up and the very thing that keeps us stuck is shame or telling ourselves that we're not good enough. Well, what do you think is going to happen next?

48:25If that's the voice you keep telling yourself. So, so crazy. Like, um, when that happened, I jumped in the shower and I went to the grocery store and I went to go get the stuff for dinner. I just needed to get away. Yeah. And for me, I like to get away, but also be productive. I'm not the type of, you know, parent nor husband that's going to get away and stay away. it's going to be, well, I'm going to, when I get away, I'm still going to do something for the family. You know, I don't, I don't go play around. I don't, I don't head to the bar because back in the day, man, that's what the caveman did.

48:58Exactly. Like, you know, like, you know, I remember like if my dad got pissed, he was like, sometimes he would not even come home that night. There was times there was times and I've never done that, but yeah, man, the, the, the removal at the, in the moment, right. It is so important, but it's also got to be done respectfully. Exactly. You know, like I told the kids like, Hey, I'm just going to the store. I will be back. I will be back. But I think what, what men and even women and just human beings in general, what's, what's so important for us to understand how to, I guess, fix or temper is not ever feeling these emotions because we're going to feel them.

49:45But feel them. And then, okay, am I really under threat right now? Is my daughter really trying to kill me? Is what my wife's saying really trying to take my livelihood away? Yeah. And the answer is going to be 100 % no. No. But the trick is, how does one not react? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It goes back to what you just said. We got to respond and not react. And here's the thing, an emotion, it will run its horse through your body because emotion is really just a chemical. It runs through your body in 90 seconds to two minutes. So if you can remove yourself for at least that long, and like you said, do it respectfully, say, hey, I just need a minute so I can come back as my best self, but get away.

50:36I love how you said you took a shower. I don't know if you did that on purpose or not, but when you put something, some different temperature on your skin, that's one of the ways to talk to the caveman. Because what he's doing, the reason that we actually react is that he comes from the subconscious brain and shuts down your front of your brain. So he shuts down your rational thinking. Is that why when people get mad and like sometimes I'll get really mad, I'll say shit that I probably shouldn't? Oh yeah. Interesting. That's it. It's literally like if you looked at a brain scan in that moment when you were reactive, the front of your brain would be almost, it would look like it's dead.

51:07Just like the lights turned off in the front of your brain, but the back of the brain would be so lit up and active. So doing something like step one, remove yourself. Step two, do some sort of temperature on your skin. Or one little trick I like is if you put your hand in your chest for about two minutes and then breathe into your belly, so your stomach starts expanding like a balloon, that tells your brain that you're getting a hug. It's wild. The way the body is wired, it's like, okay, God knew what he was doing with the whole - Interesting. All the nervous system and mind body connection. So if you do stuff like that or write out like, okay, I'm, I'm feeling this, I'm having this thought.

51:44Like when you see it on paper, it's so much less intimidating when you're just like, oh, it's just these little words. And you slow yourself down enough to let the caveman know that I'm safe and I can lead us. Cause he thinks in those moments, like you're about to get killed. I got to take over. do that. And it's a crippling feeling, right? Because, you know, there's a level of me that knows that this isn't okay. It's not okay. But once you get there, you can't shut it off. Right. And, you know, I think I might've seen it from you, but I, I mean, cause you, you triggered a memory and said, you know, that, that emotion is going to sit with you for 90 seconds.

52:21So if I just make it through 90 seconds, 90 seconds, like that's a challenge. I mean, that, I mean, it doesn't seem like it would be a dude. It's a minute and a half, right? Like figure your shit out, bro. But like, dude, that minute and a half feels like an eternity. Oh, it's a battle. When you're in it, when you're in it, it's in it. The, the energy that it strips you of. Yeah. I went to the store, came home. My son goes, Hey, can we watch King of collectibles? You know, the Ken golden, like we, like I've seen every season, every episode. I love that show, but I turned it on to my son. and you know we sat down i turned it on for him and then i was like this one into the sectional he was way over there and i'm like no i'm gonna go sit down like in the middle at least and then when i did he moved closer to me and he and you know he's 12 and he put his he put his head on me and i was gone yeah like you know and it's crazy because my wife says this too he's our zen boy like that kid can heal you in two minutes he's always been extremely emotionally intelligent it's scary like he can walk in the room and he can read it wow oh he can read it dude and he knows what you need you know how to give it to you and it dude i felt like dude like i literally it's a superpower i do truly man like i i passed out but the when you expend that emotion and, you know, kind of start coming down from it, bro.

53:54Like, I don't know about you, but I'm wiped. Oh yeah. Everybody. I'm done. Yeah. And if, if you're not, then it means you're still activated. It means you're still in that adrenaline. You're a psychopath, right? Exactly. No hope. You're done. You're done, bro. You're done. But yeah, like it, you have to come down from that. Like any adrenaline rush is going to wipe us out. It just takes so many resources to survive that moment of emotion. So yeah, once again, you're normal. Thank God. But you know, I think it's one thing to be normal, but you know, it's still for me, it's like, okay, it's something to work on.

54:25Right. Like I don't, I don't ever want to be like, okay, well, you know, Trey, you know, my new therapist said it's, it's normal. I'm okay. Like it doesn't give me permission. Right. And it shouldn't give any man or any woman or any child permission to act a certain way, but I'm damn sure responsible for not passing on that generational thing to my kids. And that's the thing that bothers me the most because of that moment I fucking failed. And, and again, it happens very few and far between, but you know, it, it, I think it's also being a good parent is like understanding, like, wait a second, that's not, I messed up.

55:02And I, when I sit down with my daughter tonight, when I get home, I'm going to sit down with her and I'm going to talk to her. No, I mean, we're fine. You know, we, we did the cuddles last night. We got her ready for school. It took her, but like, I still wanted to acknowledge like, Hey, I know you feel I'm stressed and I know you feel that I'm reacting to you in certain ways. Like I want to talk about it because I also want her to understand where I'm coming from, you know, so that way she can, you know, make adjustments on her end as well. Yes. And say, okay, this, you know, maybe it's not, it's to me, it's like so funny.

55:38It's like, It's not what you say ever. It's how you say it. Exactly. You know, you can't tell you what happened. Please. Okay. So they had a late breakfast and I made a big breakfast and like all day they, they didn't ask for lunch. And I didn't realize it was three 30. I'm like, oh shit. I go, Jackie, I go, they didn't eat lunch. She goes, okay. I go, so I call, you know, my son up. I said, Hey, go down and talk to your sister. You know, it's already three 30. So once you guys have some fruit, have a snack or something, and then I'm going to go to the store right now and I'm going to make dinner and early dinner.

56:22well he told my daughter that oh she didn't like it oh she didn't like it you know she came she came up and it and it wasn't like a hey i really would like to eat lunch can you please make something small so i can eat oh no she came in with a half ecuadorian attitude like half crying like looking at me and like, and it, it was just like that moment. I'm like, this seven-year-old is handing me my lunch right now. And no pun intended, well actually pun intended, but it was like a, I read it differently than my wife. My wife read it as she's just emotional. She's sad because she didn't have lunch.

57:11I'm like, dude, we don't starve our kids here. Like this is fucking, it was one time but it was it was the the energy of like you disappointment like how it wasn't if she would have came up and started you know like but daddy i'm really hungry like i want lunch i'm like okay you know but it set me off dude i went downstairs cut up some damn meat and threw a mandarin on her plate i'm like your lunch is downstairs yeah you know and then she didn't eat her dinner. Yep. You know, but, but that, you know, and, and people might be listening, like, well, Sean, that's not a big deal, but like, you don't live in my house.

57:48You don't understand my programming and, and, and how I perceive that moment. Yeah. But like on a big scale, like they're right. It's not that big of a deal, but at that moment it was like, slow your roll. Like, who are you talking to? Right. You know, and it was on the heels of the night before, you know, I'm making all this. I mean, there was ribeye, there was New York strip and comes down and my daughter, I don't want people to think that my daughter is not, she's an amazing human being. She's a sweet. Now you may have seen the buzz, but let me give you the inside scoop. Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, King Griffey Jr., Mark McGuire, all the greats, what they have in common, they have collectibles and they're being sold on whatnot right now.

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59:12Sellers are building real thriving businesses. Anyone can sell. Whether your business is big, small, or yet to exist, people selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. That's because you're not just listing products. You're building real connections with buyers. search whatnot w-h-a-t-n-o-t in the app store download and you can start selling right away heart but she comes down and goes i don't like lime cilantro rice nice i looked around i don't like your attitude you know there but but here's the key here's the key. That only happens when she watches a lot of TV. We don't, we don't turn on the TV during the week.

1:00:01And then on the weekends, it's a privilege. You know, it's a, it's not, it's not a privilege. No, it's not a, yeah, it's a privilege. It's like, it's not a given. It's like, okay, at 12 o 'clock, you can turn on the TV and watch something. But what happens is my wife and I like to spend time together because we don't ever really get to during the week. So we're like, all right, cool. Let's let them watch it. Well then, you know, like the monster comes out with that little girl. man. The TV does it. Right. And so like, I don't know, I mean, I'm rambling at this point, but that's exactly what happened.

1:00:29And, uh, you know, working through it, man. Well, one thing you said, like somebody from the outside looking in, they've got the vantage point of objectivity. So like they're in their logical brain, but if they were in your situation, they'd be in their caveman brain. And then the reactions and your daughter was in her caveman brain. Cause like when we're hungry, I don't know about you. When I get hungry, like it's, It's an urgent situation, even though I know I'm not going to starve, but there's something illogical in me. It's like, I got to get food. And so she was probably having that going on.

1:00:57And then what she said has made you feel like the disappointment, which triggered the whole injuries. But here's the thing, and I want to connect this to what you posted earlier today on your account on Instagram. Oh, okay, yeah. The fact that it made you feel like a disappointment, that tells me that there's something in you that is afraid of being a disappointment. Again, a part, it's not the real you, but there's a part in there that's afraid of being a disappointment. And usually if we're afraid that something's true about us, usually means something happened in the past that made us feel that way.

1:01:29I can break that down for you. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that video up, man. Cause that, that was a very raw video. Yeah. There's more about it. I want to talk about it. Tell me about the disappointment. But for me, you know, kind of what I'm talking about in that video is, you know, my whole life, I grew up as a baseball player and I talk about this a lot. like my identity shift or my identity crisis, post sports, whatever. The moment I had my arm injury, uh, when I got to LSU, I never materialized into what they thought I was going to be, what I felt I was going to be. And that created this massive crater sized chip on my shoulder to where like, wait a second, now dad might be right because I'm not going to succeed here and I'm not going to go play in the major leagues.

1:02:17because I have no other skills, right? And so when I feel stagnant in growth or when I feel like we're not being seen, because nothing will trigger me more. I'm very protective of this company. I'm very protective of this show. And when I don't feel seen, I take that very personally. And I know I shouldn't. If you look at the base, the four agreements, don't take anything personally. I'm breaking an agreement, right? Because I believe in that. But I'm also human, right? Yeah. So like in those moments of where I'm saying, what's the next step? What's the next step? What is this? What is this? How do we grow?

1:02:56How do we grow? It's about being seen. It's about breaking through the white noise of the internet. That's all it is. It's not going to make my life infinitely better. I mean, it might financially, but I've already got an amazing wife and three beautiful children and a nice house. Like I've got everything. I've got more than a lot of people have, right? But those moments right there is triggered on the fact that not being seen and not performing. Yeah. And the magic part of this is those fears of not being seen and not performing, those probably have come in handy for you in building your success.

1:03:36Oh, 100%. Your measurable success. So we can't just take them and throw them out. Like one of the reasons I'm meeting some of the stuff you're saying or all the stuff that you're saying with grace and curiosity is because you want to grow. And you've said it. You're not looking for excuses and looking to blame. If you were, if this were a real therapy session and you were looking at excuses and looking to blame, I'd be having a whole different approach with you. Yeah, sure, of course. But with somebody like you that wants to grow, I'm just saying, hey, like it's not really you that's responding in this way.

1:04:05It's not really you that wants whatever happened in that moment, the blow up and all that. So let's get curious about what's really underneath. And so that concept of not being seen and being a disappointment, I'll tell you a couple of quick stories to help kind of give some context here. In the book, I talk about this guy. He walked in on the very first session, young guy, late 20s. He walks in and he's mad. I've never met him. He's already pissed at you. He's already pissed. Like, what did I do? And I'm a little nervous. Like, do I need to defend myself? And he walks in and he takes out his car keys and he slams them on the table.

1:04:42And it's the keys to like a Lamborghini, I think. And he goes, all right, I'll drive a Lamborghini. And he takes out his phone and shows me a picture. He's got a great looking wife, two cute kids. I got a wife. I got two kids. I make blah, blah, blah, whatever it was per year. And he goes, now tell me, why the blank am I not happy? Just silence. I mean, he's like staring holes through me because like, I'm going to somehow come through for him in one sentence. So you talk about not wanting to be a disappointment. Yeah, Jesus, man. I got to come through for this guy. And so what happened was we dug underneath the surface and we realized that he thought because of past events, he thought that if he can just achieve enough, that he won't be running away from the label of disappointment anymore.

1:05:26Because stuff happened to him in his past where he really did feel like a disappointment And in all of his success, he thought, or a part of him thought in his subconscious, if I just achieve enough, then I don't have to worry about being a disappointment anymore. And that's so much, that's why your video from Instagram resonated with me. I'm like, oh man, the fuel that causes us to achieve certain things, we got to keep that. Because if we throw it out, then we're throwing out some of our true DNA. But we got to harness it because the stat is people who reach big goals within three months of reaching that goal, they go back to their kind of normal level of feeling, like normal level of happiness, normal mood, whatever.

1:06:06So it doesn't last that long. Even the biggest accomplishments, about three months later, you're back to feeling normal. And so Viktor Frankl is a Holocaust survivor. He had a great concept. He said, it's not that achievement is wrong. It's just that you're making yourself the center of the story. And so if we can keep that in mind, it's like achievement is great. And because two things are true, it's not a, but it's an, and achievement's great. And it needs to be aimed at something in service of something bigger than ourselves. But so often we, that caveman takes over and it's like just a little more, just a little more, just a little more.

1:06:41It's like Rockefeller's quote was how much, somebody asked him how much money is enough? He goes, just one more dollar. It's just never enough. And that's one of the reasons I put that, that word enough in the title is because like, guys feel like we're not good enough. We're not strong enough, not tough enough, not good looking enough, not rich enough, whatever it is. And I'm like, yeah, there's never going to be a finish line if that's how we're shaping things. So interesting. Like when I, when I was fourth grade, I was the only new student in the, in the school. I'm walking in on the first day of class.

1:07:11I'm nervous. I don't know if I'm going to fit in. They're all sitting in a circle and I walked to the circle, just nervous as I'll get out. and one dude looks up and he goes, damn, I'm glad I'm not looking into a mirror right now. And I'm like, looking back, that's kind of a clever insult from a fourth grader. Yeah, that's pretty good, man. That's right. But in that moment, I wanted to just crawl in a hole and disappear. I bet, man. What I didn't realize was in that moment, talking about injury, it left an injury in me and I took away some messages or some labels, some limiting beliefs like I must be ugly.

1:07:45If I'm the new guy in a situation, I'm probably going to get rejected. So anytime I can't avoid being the new guy, I better just be quiet and not bring any attention to myself. So like for me, not getting rejected was the thing I kept trying to achieve more to outrun. Like with you not being a disappointment or not being seen was the thing you potentially keep achieving to try to outrun. It's the same playbook. It's just our caveman trying to solve a problem in a way that's not really helpful. You know, it's interesting because my buddy, Rich, sent me a message on Instagram. He's I was like, bro, haven't you read Relentless by Tim Grover?

1:08:18I'm like, three times. He goes, well, cleaners are always searching. You know, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, that's not a bad thing. And he's right to an extent. I think, you know, I may have said, you know, people are going to say whatever to sell books. That is what it is. I do believe that high achievers are always pushing. but my point is is when it robs you or robs me of the present joy of what has already been created that's a fucking problem yes sir okay because i'm gonna tell you something i know what's been publicized about michael jordan and kobe bryant those are the two goats sorry end of story michael jordan never lost the finals yeah sorry you know uh three p twice and didn't have to move teams you know who i'm coming after here you have to move teams and recruit players to win championships.

1:09:10Nope. He carried them. He carried them. He made it work with what he had there, but at the same time, like even with Kobe Bryant, man, like he would win a championship and then he'd be in the gym the next morning at 4am shooting hoops and trying to get better. But that does not mean that he was not proud of what happened the night before. And where I get lost in a world, I think a lot of people get lost, especially in this industry, because it's so hard is like you you can't help but to compare oh yeah like you like well how do i get there and then it takes away from the growth of last 12 months that's why i said like hey you know you gotta you know why aren't we looking back at the last 12 months and seeing if there's any growth if you haven't grown well then you have a serious conversation to have with yourself but if there's been growth then you're on the right path the problem is the caveman wants it now yes I want my kill now.

1:10:03I want to eat now. And that's not the way this shit works. Right. Again, he wants it now because he thinks if you don't get it, you'll literally die. So we got to treat that urge with some care as if he's a toddler that just doesn't know any better. Because if we try to squish him with distractions like staying busy at work or substances or sex or whatever it is, if we try to squish him down and try to ignore him or just silence him, he's going to get worse. He didn't pop off. Exactly. He didn't pop off. It's interesting because like, yeah, as we do, I mean, gosh, I could go to the forever, but, but like the thing is, is like you, you mentioned earlier, like when you have reactions or anybody has reactions, like for the audience, if you have reactions, right.

1:10:46Or you're, you're popping off or your kids popping off and you talked about the caveman with me, but then you said that was your daughter's caveman. that may be the fix because now that could be a trigger for me and a good in a good way if they're popping off like that's their caveman there you go that's that's like i'm gonna say it's a trigger but it's like a checkpoint like okay well now i need to be here for her because i know what my caveman's like i can't let mine come out right now i gotta i gotta help hers there you go that's really cool man yeah Yeah. The more we, when we understand how our bodies really work and how our minds really work, we see it in everybody.

1:11:28And like, sometimes you got to be careful because nobody, not nobody, but very few people want to have it pointed out in the moment. So you have to keep it to yourself, be like, oh yeah, that's their caveman. Or like, that's their past injury coming out right here in this moment. I'll do women love to point out your shit and the time, you know, right there in the moment. It's like, not the time, not the time. Can you wait about seven hours? I'm shutting all my phone. I don't want to read the text. That's right. You know, but, but look, man, no, I appreciate you so much, man. This has been so amazing and such a great experience having you here and look forward to getting up to Tennessee to see you.

1:12:04Let's do it. I've got a lot of people up there in Nashville, so I need to get up there, but come on, we'll get you some boots and jeans. Yeah. Come on, man. Some, some Wranglers. I can't wear, I can't wear, uh, can't wear express jeans and chucks on the cow pasture, huh? Yeah. Your boots will show through the, through the jeans. But no, man, um, for the audience, you know, obviously I know where to find you, but let them know, you know, your website, I believe it's ruggedcounseling.com, right? Ruggedcounseling.com. Yeah. The book website is toughenough.com. And then, you know, the socials are easy to find just ruggedcounseling on those.

1:12:35But yeah, I have, this felt like 15 minutes. So this is - No, we're going on an hour and 15 actually. Pretty close. Right. Right, Ryan? Like about an hour? Hour? Yeah. I mean, we're, we're killing it over here. Oh, I loved it. You know, absolutely, man. And it's just, again, it was an honor having you here and sorry, it took so damn long to get you here, man, but it's perfect timing. Yeah, man. You know, I just feel like it happens at the right time. And, you know, um, I, I truly, you know, enjoy everything that you do. And, uh, when I get to see your stuff come up, I'm like, that's my guy. It's my guy right there doing it.

1:13:08You've, you built such an amazing platform. I think the book's going to sell more than you realize. Um, and we're going to put it in the show notes too. Um, so that way the audience can, you know, go check it out. Cause I, there's, there's dads here, man, that listened to the show that, you know, I think this book could really help their relationship with their, with their sons or even their daughters and not that it's broken, but like it can always be better. It can always be better. So dude, thank you so much, man. Thank you, brother. Enjoyed it. My guy, my guy. Well, there you have it guys.

1:13:39Uh, my boy Trey Tucker broke me down, gave me a counseling session, literally on camera. And I kind of had a feeling that this was going to happen. And I'm glad it did. Because if I can show you guys that we all struggle and we all have our issues and things that we need to work on, our traumas, our internal injuries, as Trey liked to say, then we're all in this together and we're all normal. But, you know, it's our job to really find out better ways where we can cope and, and counsel ourselves and, and be better for our children and better for all the people around us. So I just want to remind you guys again, go to the determined society.com sign up for the newsletter, please.

1:14:24And, uh, share this show with someone, you know, love and trust, go follow my boy, Trey at rugged counseling on Instagram, go buy his book at toughenough.com and really consume what he's saying, because he's helped me out tremendously, as you can see. And I just think he's a great dude. And in my humble opinion, there's not enough good people right now being highlighted on social media. So let's start that wave of highlighting good people and giving love to where it matters the most. And until next time, stay determined.