EMERGENCY DEBATE: They Lied About The Economy Recovering! Is A Financial Apocalypse Coming?

23:35So I'm not stealing something from the existing economy. I'm bringing something from outside of the economy, into the economy, and my quote unquote net worth is growing exponentially because investors say we'll give you a little bit of money that values the rest of the pie at a lot of money. So everyone's getting it too. In the wealth create, there's wealth extraction, which is what traders do. They extract from the existing economy and they bet on the economy and then there's wealth creation, which what entrepreneurs do. They come up with new ideas, better ways of doing things and they build Well, so do you think the reason our viewers, the average Brit or American are getting poorer is because they don't know how to create wealth?

24:19No, the reason people are getting poorer is because economic freedoms are being eroded. Okay. When we have higher Can you say that with taxes? Well, anything that input it could be anything that impacts economic freedom. So Taxes and regulations are big. The economic freedom higher in the 50s 50s was okay, so 50s was a interesting time. We were in food rations in this country till 1956. So we had 10 years of food rations after the war. We had a labor shortage because only really men worked, women hadn't entered the workforce in mass. There had been three or four hundred thousand men killed in war.

24:57So we actually had this big labor shortage. The whole country needed to rebuild because of the blitz had bombed it. So we had this huge need for economic activity and not enough people to do it. We only had 2 % unemployment. People who had had their legs blown off were put to work at that particular time. So we had this post -war boom and we also had the post -war baby boom which drove consumption. And then when we got to the 60s, we had the roaring 60s or the swinging 60s, right? Pretty amazing time in Britain. And along comes high taxes. And they put up the taxes massively at the end of the 60s.

25:31And it pretty much crashed the economy. One of the things that happen. So what were the tactics in the 50s? Well, they went up as high as 80 to 90 % for the top 50. For the top 50. I think it was in the 60s. Are you sure about that? I think the 50s are unique as well. What is the answer Gary? They went up after the war. They went up after the war. Well, in the US actually tax rates side got before the war. But also the size of government as a percentage of GDP was like 30%. It was a tiny like we are now 45 % of the UK economy is government spending. We have got a... Who funds that spending? Debt.

26:03The Bank of England allows them to print endless amounts of debt, which... Just debt? Deflated. That taxes. Gary, I only get your opinion here, because you're asking a lot of questions, but I actually don't know your opinion. I just want to know what Daniel thinks. I want our viewers to be able to research Daniel's opinions. But how would you disagree with those opinions? Listen, Daniel's a businessman. He's obviously a very successful businessman. You know, I've not been anywhere. I'm not a businessman. I'm not going to be a businessman. I'm an economist. I make money by being right in the economy.

26:29Then there's a good business man, and I'm right on the economy. You know, it's as simple as that basically. You know, I'm not a good business man, but I've got 15 years of being right on this, on the economy. And look, I know you're probably worth your man, you probably don't want to pay high taxes, you probably don't want your kids to pay high taxes. But we exist in an economy where wealth is being extracted out of the middle class, out of the working class, very, very rapidly. It's benefiting people like the three of us at this table, it will benefit our kids. You know, our kids will be rich.

26:56their kids will be poor. And I just think we should be honest with them. Capitalism's finished. We won, well done Steven, well done Daniel, well done Gary. It's over now. Our kids will be rich, their kids will be poor. They'll pay the taxes, we won't pay the taxes, we'll avoid it. I'll make money betting on it here after the year. Why are we lying to them? Why are we lying to them? Yeah, I think that's an overly simplified view of things. I mean, it can't... It's an overly simplified view of things that has made me a multi -millionaire. Yeah, well look, entrepreneurs take bets on the economy as well.

27:24we take bets differently. When we start a company, we're betting on how do you think the average would be? British and American worker at the 50th percentile. Do you think their kids will be richer than they are? It depends if we have economic freedom or not, right? We're going to have a split test on this. We're going to have a split test. We're going to have the UK seems like we're going to have more taxes, more regulations. And it seems like the US is going to have less taxes and less regulations. Here's what I've noticed. I've noticed that places like Singapore poor that have small governments have got widespread affluence.

27:57There's not a lot of poverty in Singapore. Yes, except for the cleanest living in the closets. Yeah. You know, uh, look, but we don't count them in statistics. Just like we don't count our viewers. That's not widespread in Singapore. Well, there's a lot of people. I've seen them in the closets. I've seen them in the closets. There are, there are some, but they're not Singaporeans. We'll also only count the rich ones. Look, the issue is that they've come from even worse conditions in many cases. People move to Singapore for an increase in lifestyle. You could take Ireland or Switzerland economically free places.

28:34Ireland was economically in a disaster. Do the average Irish person lives well? Well, the average 50th person lives well. Their economy almost collapsed in 2011 and they went down the road of lower taxes, lower regulations and they attracted all sorts of businesses into the economy. I just think that works well for the average Irishman who doesn't own a home in Dublin. If you measure everything by home ownership... I'm measuring people by the average. I want to know what that means. I agree. ...overage man or woman in Dublin today lives like that. By the way, I'm also furious about the home ownership thing.

29:06Everyone is. I think it's utterly ridiculous the way... Like the idea that homes are now worth 10 times the average wage, all of that. differences I blame government for that. I blame high taxes where they're because of high taxes they can take out more debt. They can then inflate the economy. So do you think if we shrink the government, if we start to slash government spending, do you think that would improve a living condition? Well, the UK government is 45 % of the economy. That's a huge government. So do you think the US will increase in the next few years because we have a US government now that is planning to slash the US government?

29:41Well, that's what the US voters of our sport. Do you think that if people living in this, do I think it will improve if there's... Or the average American. If there's smaller government. Yeah, I trust Mark. So you think... So here's an average US -american will be rich and free in the US? Here's what I trust. I trust economic freedom. If people have freedom, they create better decisions for their own life. There's two ways to make decisions, right? Do you have freedom? I've got less freedom than I've ever been. When I arrived. Because my sister can't pay the rent. Is that freedom? The... If you're living in a country...

30:09She's kind of full to live in the city that she was born in. I agree. You agree on the problem. You keep bringing back to the problem. I keep bringing it back to people because the people who want, we're millionaires, okay? The people who watch us are mostly not millionaires. Is life going to get better for them? The life will get better if you are connected to the most productive parts of the economy. If you pretend that it's 1955 and you recreate the post -war era conditions, if you try to go back to 1955, I don't think that's going to work. So let me ask on that then the point about if you're connected to the most productive parts of the economy I was quite Quite surprised when I was doing some research on this to find that there's quite big differences between the UK and the US in terms of GDP growth Mm -hmm in q4 2024 the US economy grew by 0 .6 percent while the UK growth was 0 .1 percent So they're doing significantly better in that regard US GDP per head stands 82 ,000 dollars per head Whereas the UK stands at 49 ,000 dollars per head and stock market performance which is an indication of I guess whatever rose by 300 % in the US, whereas the FTSE 100 declined by 20%, which is the UK stock market.

31:15Productivity growth since 2018, productivity increased by 30 % in the United States, which is outpaced the UK. And lastly, income growth. Since 2007, American income per head has increased by 72%, while it has decreased by 2 % in the UK in dollar terms. So they seem to be doing better from it if you just look at the economy. Why is that? Is that because they lean more into technology and to innovation and entrepreneurship? And is it because of the things you were saying earlier about their attitude towards the government, like reduced government spending versus tax the rich? Why? I'm keen to get Gary's view on this because I understand yours because you've just said it.

31:56Yeah, I think these are great statistics. And of course, the US has a strong reputation for being very free markets and being very small states. In the last five years, 10 years, 15 years, we've had a UK government that has been aggressively slashing the state. And the US... The state's bigger than ever. Just 45 % of the economy. And the US, we had a government in the last four years which has been running a massive deficit. So in that period of time, it appears the government which has been aggressively increasing its deficit has massively overperformed the government which has been aggressively slashing the state.

32:35That's what it looks to be from the last. I mean, Joe Biden enormously increased the deficit, enormously. And the Conservatives were austerity government for 14 years, which one seems to have given the better numbers? Well, I mean, they were austerity in name only. They went from 30 percent. The state was 30 percent of GDP to 45 percent of GDP. So do you think that the government services have a fund to sell? No, the government is terrible at doing most things. That's the problem. You don't want to do that. And that spending on government services has been slashed. Let me zoom out a little. Do you think the police spending has been slashed?

33:06Oh, police spending has definitely been slashed. Do you think education's been slashed? Do you know where it ends up? It ends up with like big corporates, big consulting, who get paid $50 million to produce a report to tell government something. All of these big, I won't name names, but all the big consulting firms, they're all blood suckers to government. They know that the money's in the government and they set up business models to extract that money from government. And it also is in the financial trading side of things. One of the issues that we've got, right, and this is a big issue as well, because you care about wealth inequality.

33:41One of the biggest issues I see is that during the pandemic, we all learn to work remotely and remote work became the norm. And what I see at the moment is huge amounts of what would have been normal British jobs are going to the Philippines, going to India, going to Vietnam, people who work remotely now. We now have a thousand millionaires a month leaving to go to Dubai. We have 120 ,000 British people living in Dubai in that economy. The world's become incredibly mobile. And one of the things that's happening is that what would have previously been good British jobs are getting moved overseas to lower cost countries.

34:18And that's technology that drives that wedge. The US is very smart in that they've built a technology powerhouse and the UK has completely lost our technology industry Our tech industry is in decline, same across Europe China and the US know that the game is tech and they're basically pulling all the tech company into their borders And what's happening a lot is the erosion of good jobs and the erosion of just normal well -paying jobs because they're going. And it's a bit of a self -affilling loop that the more we lose millionaires, the tax burden falls on everyone else, so they put the taxes up, and then the millionaires say, oh, the taxes are too high, so they leave.

35:00I've watched some of the most incredible entrepreneurs that you would want here that would employ your sister at a high rate, and they've picked up and left because the taxes are too high. You're saying we should tax working people less? Well, the overall government has to be smaller, You can't. So what do you want to cut in the government? If you want, yeah, well, I mean, you'd have to do child services. We'd have to get now. No, well, education, the NHS. All I know is this. Penchants? You go to Switzerland, they spend 20... Well, first single mothers. 25 % would benefit. What do you want to cut?

35:33Hold up. All I know is in Switzerland. I tell you what I want to do. The government is cutting taxes. I want the government to cut the taxes. On those on troppo knows and raise the taxes on the billionaire. Yeah. Because I worked my tits off. How many billionaires are in the UK? There's a lot of billionaires in the UK. 150. Yeah, so taxable. What do they pay? Listen, I want my tits off. And I paid, it was 50 % top -rated tax. 50 % top -rated tax plus national insurance. 60 % to a million yen. To bring my family out of poverty. At the same time, the Duke of Westminster that inherited 10 billion pounds and paid nothing, do you think that's fair?

36:03That's not true. OK, why's it not true? Because the Duke of Westminster is one of the highest taxpayers in the country. What does he pay? Well, on the trust, the Grovener State, they don't pay inheritance tax because trusts can't die. They pay something called periodic taxes, which is how much? 6 % every 10 years. 6 % so they pay 0 .6 % per year. So I pay 16 % and this guy pays 0 .6%. Apples with apples. Inheritance tax is 40 % across the course of your life. If a person who owns a trust for 70 years, then 6 % times 7 would be 42. So they actually pay more. So he pays 0 .6 % a year. Pro -right.

36:42No, not 0 .6%. But that would be the same as what percent did I pay for you? No, no, no. 60%. Hold up. So you're saying I pay what 60 of a no point? No, no, no, no. 100 times the tax rate. You're not comparing apples with apples. Why is an apples with apples? This guy pays 0 .6 % a year. That's a year. That's inheritance tax. I paid that 60 % every year. Every year, I paid it. In every year, I paid it. You're paying income tax. So why have I paid? The Duke of Westminster, why do I pay income tax? The Duke of Westminster pays income tax. He probably makes you all bill blush. Yeah. The Duke of Westminster tax.

37:11Yeah, well, if he's going to live, he has to withdraw money to have his income. And he also let me give you a list of all the taxes he would pay. He'd pay income tax, corporate tax, he'd pay stamp duty when he buys a building, he pays any of the other taxes, that when he spends money, all the same taxes apply to a Duke as they apply to anybody else. So you think he pays income tax on the income on that? Any income he draws, okay? Well, you was going to search whether he pays income tax on his income. Of course he pays. How could he not trust? He's a trust. But the only difference with the trust versus income is that the trust pays Periodic tax versus inheritance tax.

37:47Not 26 % but we're only talking inherit that that's just one type of tax Trust think he's basically sent on his income He's one of the highest taxpayers in the UK I'm not like his big fan club, but the truth is he's one of the highest taxpayers in the UK He's one of the biggest employers in the UK. He's one of the like one of the biggest landowners in the UK, right? so So the issue is it does he pay tax, all the same taxes that apply to you apply to him. And if you want to set up a trust, you can also pay periodic taxes as well, which would be on top of all the other taxes. So what would you say?

38:19But it's just not true that he doesn't pay tax. No, what would you say? This guy has inherited £10 million. So he's worth £10 million. What would you say will be the total amount of tax he will pay in his lifetime? Well, I know that just the smallest... £5 .10 million, I'll pay 60%. Just wouldn't say. You're not, you're talking about income versus the transfer of an estate. So why is it? Because your husband's the two million pound. You're comparing your income versus the amount he inherited, which is not a fair thing. That's what it is. Because that's his income. He inheritance is not income.

38:52So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So if I get given 10 billion pounds, I'll have to pay the tax. But if I work for 10 billion pounds, if they're 60 percent. Well, if you inherit it, this is the tax system that you want. You will end up in a system. I've just seen the same. of the ritual and everything. You're just saying you're not saying. That's what I'm saying. And that's fine because that's our kids. You're not telling the truth about his... Let's support it. Let's have a tax system where your kids and my kids and Steven's kids are multimillionaires and these guys out there can't afford to feed their kids and put the heat in.

39:18That's not what I'm saying. But that's what you'll get. That's what you'll get. That's listen, that's what I'm betting on. That's fine because I'll make money in the markets. It's fine and you'll make money and you'll make money is how viewers will be poor. And that's fine. That's fine for us. Let's explore the other alternative, right? So let's say tax the rich. Right. So let's play the game of tax the rich tax the owners tax the workers. Yeah, so the issue that we have with the rich Is that is the number one most valuable assets in the economy now are intangible assets So there's this chart called the S &P 500 of 500 richest countries in the country in the world in the US.

39:52Sorry in 1970s 75 % of the value of the S &P 500 was physical assets like property and today it's less than 10%, it's closer to 5%. So you think that housing is not particularly important? Just let's stick with what I'm saying. Okay. The powerhouse, the engine room of the economy is digital assets, and that's reflected in the S &P 500 for example, which is 95 % intangible assets. One of the issues that we have is that the richest people are completely mobile now. So they can be absolutely anywhere in the world. So if you come up with this idea of let's tax richest people 1 % if a tiny proportion of them leave we're all in trouble so it's really rich guys what do they own companies and why those companies work money because investors say they are and where the revenue is comfortable globally the issue is that these companies operate globally now so it's like my company for example yeah my company has 8 ,000 customers in 150 countries.

40:57Okay. We could be anywhere. If you push a bunch of... What country is your biggest single revenue source? Probably the US now. Let's say you move to Cayman Islands. And the US says we're going to tax your revenue at a point of sale. What can you do? Well, that's different, right? Because that's not taxing billionaires, that's taxing companies. See, when you say tax the rich on their wealth, that's different to saying tax companies a consumption tax. Oh, but you just said the rich owned companies. You said that's what they are. Yeah, but you're saying how do you tax them, right? So do they do you tax their wealth, which is what they own or do you tax the companies where they trade?

41:35Typically consumption taxes get passed onto consumers. So it's not consumption taxes. This is the tax on the ownership. Yeah, but if you simply say when you're doing revenues, then that's a good option. We start to tax. If we start to And by the way, I'm not exactly against you on companies. I think it's disgusting that a British company can take out a Facebook ad to sell to a British consumer, a British product, and Facebook pretends to be in Ireland on that transaction. And Amazon, you can buy something on Amazon in Britain from a British supplier from a British warehouse, and Amazon pretends to be in Luxembourg in that situation.

42:11And that sucks, right? Like that does not seem fair and it strikes me as very strange that the government is okay with that. Right now the government is chasing down mums and dads who sell a few things on eBay and chasing them for taxes, but they don't talk to eBay. They're paranoid about someone doing a little bit of a side hustle on Facebook, but Facebook's fine to pretend to be an island. So I don't agree with all of that, right? Like I think we're missing some serious tricks here. But the idea with taxing billionaires at wealth, billionaires are just leaf. They just get up and leave. And not just billionaires.

42:47But what do billionaires own? What do billionaires own? Companies. And where do companies get their money from? Revenue. And where do the revenues come from? Purchasing. People purchasing. And where do those people live? All over the world. We can tax them at that point. That's consumption tax. This is the thing. That's a consumption tax. No, it's not. The VAT is a tax on revenues. These guys on profits based on where the revenue is called from. So it's very easy to move profits internationally. So Steven had a Starbucks cup. When he buys that Starbucks, it's bought from a British company, who licenses the Starbucks logo from Luxembourg or somewhere like that.

43:23So 15%. So here we are saying, we're going to tax their profits. And they say, I wish we were profitable. Sorry. Unfortunately, we had to do that licensing deal with that international company. I know how profit shifting works. Okay, so are you telling me companies? A company selling to the UK, the US, enormous amount of profit in the US. And they turn around and say, actually, I probably is not in the US. The difference? You think the US is incapable of going and looking at that scene where they're really where the profit is? I'm not saying that you can't do this. I'm saying that the benefits of doing it, it's so hard to tax wealth, for example, or it's so hard to tax millionaires and billionaires, that you end up cutting off your nose despite your face.

44:04For every, like if we create Britain, for example, and we build a brand which is that we're anti -wealth, we don't want you to ever have more than 10 million, if you've got more than 10 million, we punish you. Every young entrepreneur who comes to me and says, Dan, do you think I should start a company here in this country? I'm going to say, well, if you do, as soon as you start to make it, they'll take it. As soon as if you're successful, if you get investment, they're going to tax your wealth. If you sell the company, they're going to take it off you. I'm going to basically say to that young entrepreneur, don't build your business in Britain.

44:37Go start it somewhere that they're more proactive and positive towards entrepreneurs. Are we seeing that now with this? They call it the millionaire exodus, which is for people that don't know, the UK set to lose the greatest proportion of millionaires in the world, this parliament. I'll put a graph on the screen, which is, this one here, this one here, and that little red line here is us losing all of our millionaires at the moment. And in 2024, it's estimated that 10 ,800 high net worth individuals left the UK, which is a 157 % increase from the previous year, which means that 1 millionaires departing every 45 minutes.

45:13The UK millionaire exodus is equal to losing 530 ,000 average tax payers. And another stat, the top 10 % of earners in the US account for nearly half of all consumer spending. The top 1 % of income tax payers in the UK are projected to contribute about 30 % of total income tax from 2024 to 2025. Why are all these millionaires running away? Well, it's not because they're taxing their wealth, because we don't have any wealth taxes. Why do you think they're leaving? I think the reason they're leaving is because the UK economy is really, really weak, because the UK consumer is really, really weak, because we've absolutely crushed the spending power of your average British family.

45:50And where are the average British family can barely afford to feed the kids and turn the heating on? So why are you going to start a business here when the customers are absolutely impoverished? Look, it corresponds with a new tax that we brought in, which was we ended the non -dom scheme. So the non -dom scheme basically said, if you're living in the UK, but you've got businesses all over the world, then we only tax you on what you've got in the UK. And if you die in the UK, we'll only tax you on your UK assets for inheritance tax if you're a non -dom. But if you die in the UK and you've got wealth in India, once that non -dom scheme ended, They basically said we will tax you on everything globally.

46:27If you're an economic, if you're a tax resident in the UK, everything you've got globally, we want 40 % of it. So unfortunately, every wealth manager contacted their clients and said you can't stay here. You're going to have to get out. It's gotten really bad. A thousand people a month are leaving and in the UK, one percent of people pay 30 % of the taxes, 10 % of people pay 60 % of the taxes. And you imagine if we're sitting out at dinner and there's 10 of us out at dinner and one person says, hey, I've got this. I'll get 60 % of the bill tonight. We say to them, now it should be 70%, it should be 80%.

46:59And they say, you know what, I'll get up and leave. So they leave. Everyone else is bill just doubled. So what's going to happen is if we drive the millionaires out of this country, everyone, every ordinary normal person who pays 10 grand a year in tax will now have to pay 20 grand a year in tax. So the reason they left it because we used to allow them to not pay tax? On the global incomes. On the global sales. It was a bit more like if we were 10 of us at dinner and there was one guy who came on to dinner on the condition he wouldn't pay their leaves. Because he guys weren't paying tax anyway.

47:29If the reason they left is because they weren't paying tax. No, it's like saying, it's like saying, hey, I'll pay 60 % of this table and they say at the table, hey, wait a second, we also want you to pay for everything that's happening at other restaurants as well. Isn't it a bit more like these guys stretching the analogy? On the condition, you yourself say the reason why they left is because we let them live here Taxes are under condition that they didn't have to pay tax on their global. Yeah, taxes matter, right? So why are it why is everyone going to Dubai? Dubai they're going there because there's no tax these guys They live in Dubai their money comes from the West they are making money from the West while your average Western Ordinary person watching this show now cannot afford to buy a house cannot afford to have a family We can tax those revenues at the point of sale Why do we allow these guys?

48:16It's a quarter consumption tax. No, it's not it's a tax on So when you just have taxal consumption, you just should add point of sale, which means it's a consumption based on the profits. You look at how much profit that's not a consumption. Exactly. It's not a consumption tax. So if you tax profits, then those profits have to accumulate in that country. And because of the digital ecosystem that we now have, the world we now live in, I can lease the database off of my company in Luxembourg. I can license my logo from my company. I understand how profit shifting works. Okay, so listen, these guys are not Gandalf, you just say we don't accept profit shifting.

48:55We don't need to accept profit shifting. China does not accept profit shifting. We did not accept profit shifting 50 years ago. We do not have to accept profit shifting. But you have a government class who are extremely wealthy and the media class who are extremely wealthy, saying it's impossible to tax rich people. And I like to say I will agree 100%. It is difficult to tax rich people. It is very, very, very difficult to tax rich people. I don't, I don't come here saying I want to tax rich people because it's easy. I know it's hard, I know probably I'm going to lose, I know our viewers, kids will live in desperate poverty.

49:26I know that. I do this because it is hard. If we are a country which says to ourselves, we don't try and do things which are necessary to keep our kids out of poverty because they are hard, then our kids will live in poverty. I don't need to be here. I'm a multimillionaire just like you. I could be in the Philippines drinking peanut colladas. I come in here because I come from a poor background and it's ordinary families like my family, like the kids I grew up with, whose kids are gonna be in poverty. It's difficult, but it is necessary. Sometimes we have to do things not because they're easy, but because they are hard.

49:59That is what makes a rich country rich and that is what protects ordinary people. Listen, our grandparents lived in poverty. Did they say, let's not change it because it's hard? No, they didn't. They fought and they demanded. They demanded healthcare, education, housing, food, and they got it. They got it. That's why my parents could live a good quality life. They got those things. They got those things and they were aware that in order to do that, you could not allow the super rich who have been living lives of luxury for hundreds and hundreds of years to eat everything while ordinary families couldn't afford to feed their kids.

50:32I know it's difficult. I know it's difficult. And I know I'm probably going to lose. I know that. I know I'm probably going to lose. And that means our viewers will be poor. But I do it anyway because I do not want this country I grew up here to fool into despot poverty. I agree with you on the passion, and I agree with you on the problem. I don't agree with you on the solution because in 2019, we don't have to look into it. In 2020, and that's not what I'm saying, in 2020, we made a decision globally to shut down the economy, and we taught everyone that they can live and work from anywhere. The biggest threat to everything you're saying is remote working, the fact that we can live and work from anywhere.

51:08Our grandparents, their boss, if they're boss owned a company, that company had to physically be in the country and the boss had to physically be in the country. If we look at today, there are plenty of fitness trainers who work for a gym and the owner of that gym is somewhere overseas. Plenty of people work in a restaurant and the owner of the restaurant lives overseas. You can run a business from anywhere in the world right now. So the problem that we face is that you're describing on one hand, you say we need to tax it at the point of sale, which is a consumption tax. And then you say it tax on profit, and then you say, oh, but then we'll stop profit shifting.

51:45By the way, I'm also actually all for this idea of stopping profit. I've already said, I think it's utterly ridiculous the way that many of these global companies are treated. And if we don't stop that, then all the money just flows out to the tech companies. So I'm with you on that. But when you say tax the rich, the actual people who own the companies, those people can just be anywhere right now. But their revenues can't. Their customers are where their customers are. Their customers are where their customers are. Listen, Amazon doesn't pay any UK tax, doesn't pay any US tax. Where are the customers in the UK tax?

52:19In the UK, US. Do you really think it's impossible for us to tax that? Well, you're talking about taxing people at 10 million plus, right? So this is a lot of startup entrepreneurs. Jeff Bezos is a lot more than 10 million. No, Jeff Bezos worth a lot more than 10 million. But you talk about anyone above 10 million is on your radar. You know what people worth 11 million pounds per penny more? I'm not just, it's not that. Dan, if you're worth more than £10 million, so if we tax people on, as Gary says, that have more than 10 million, what are your options to avoid? Say if your objective was to avoid that, what options do you have?

52:52Look, if my objective was to avoid it, I pass a board resolution that we're moving the head off as somewhere else. We've moved the intellectual property somewhere else. I pick up and move my family somewhere else, And within about a week or two, we've got a we work office somewhere else. I've got a new house on Airbnb somewhere else. And I cut ties with the UK and I'm non -tax resident here. And I have a digital business. I can literally make my head office anywhere in the world. If there was a particular country that turned hostile towards our operations, they're not have to withdraw service from that thing.

53:27You know, so that's possible, but it's unlikely that that would actually happen. But ultimately if I choose to get up and leave then I get up and leave. Now the bigger issue is would I have even come here in the first place? And then there's another issue and here's the other issue Gary for you. You've just had 750 ,000 subscribers to your YouTube channel. It's 820 right? It's 820 right? So it's going up fast. I could have one of my analysts at a consulting company do a valuation of your brand and do a valuation of your YouTube channel. We could say this is a fast growth media company and it's worth 11 million, right?

54:03So we could come up with a forecast on projection and we say Gary's economics is actually a new fast growth media brand. It's worth 11 million Now your channel now you have to pay a hundred grand a year in extra taxes because you're a million Well, so 1 % on worth above 10 million on 11 million is gonna be 10 grand You're saying only on the part above that's how tight so it's not on everything. It's okay So it's a marginal tax. That's not tax. It's a buck. So, okay. So, is it fair that like who gets to decide what wealth is wealth and what it's worth? Because wealth, let's just hear you hear me out.

54:37Wealth is a technical term for unrealized gains, right? It's not real. You know, someone buys a house for 20 grand and it's worth 200 grand. They've still got the same house, but now they've got wealth. If someone starts a business and a tiny little seed investor puts in a little angel investment Now they've got wealth on paper, but who gets to say what is wealth? Like for example, if you introduce wealth taxes, theoretically that will actually reduce the value of wealth of things anyway, because things inside that economy are now subject to a disadvantage, so therefore investors will be unlikely to invest in them to a certain point.

55:17And also, people start cutting and dodging and weaving and ducking and weaving. So they say, oh, UK operations worth 10 million. so we're now going to start a second company over in some other country and make sure that's where the wealth accumulates. So it's incredibly difficult because it is just unrealized gains. I know, I know it's difficult. Yeah. I know these guys have the best accountants. I know it's difficult. So what if there was an easier solution? If there was an easier solution, I would support that. You know, I mean, like that. It's called economic freedom. The economic freedom in it.

55:46Okay, whoa. This is how it should be. Give them more economic freedom and then they'll be rich. Yeah, so this diagram here basically says the most free countries have less than 10 % poverty, in fact less than 7 % poverty. As soon as you reduce economic freedom, it jumps to 30 % poverty. You reduce economic freedom again, and it jumps up to huge amounts of poverty. So these countries here are the least economically free, and these countries are the most economically free. The countries that get in the way of your economic freedom have more poverty and the countries that let people make decisions for their own life.

56:17So what you're seeing is, if the governments of our countries cut taxes on us, the three -moving millionaires sitting in this table, that will improve the lives of the ordinary British and American world. I'll give you a real life example. I'll give you a real life example. I know of a company that was going to give pay rises to its employees and their national insurance went up and instead of... You're nationally sure it's a tax on employment? Yeah. I'm saying through a juice tax on... I want your viewers, the viewers here, to be paying less tax. Well, multi -millionaires pay more tax, including theory, but if you could tax rich people 1 % of their wealth above 10 million.

56:54I did a back of an African calculation, you might be able to get 20 billion. Yeah. That's if they don't leave. That's if they don't respond to it. If they just happily pay it, you get 20 billion. That's less than a week worth of current government spending. So the government's out of control. 1 .2 trillion a year of government spending is now what they spend. OK, so let's get that 20 billion and cut the taxes for the viewers. So that works out about 250 a year. Okay, so let's do more. Let's make it 60 believe. So then you tax three percent above wealth. Yeah, do that. And then you also bring it back to mind.

57:29This is what governments do. We make five or six. Yeah, and then that's what they do. That's what they did in the second world war. And that's why my dad could afford a house. Well, they actually, that's not why he could afford a house. Okay, well, who's bought, if all the people losing the houses and the wealth, which they are, yeah. And we're getting richer. Yeah. Who is it? Who is not only the houses. is if it is not. The government used to own the houses, and then they sold the house. Government wealth is collapsing. No, just government wealth. But what they did is they sold the houses to the people.

57:54OK, but ordinary middle house. You can only do that once. You can only do that once. And they did it for the baby business. So you think it's our viewers who have got my houses now? Where is the world going? Daniel, where is the wealth going? Who has the wealth now? Who is getting rich? I tell you who's getting the wealth that is lost by our viewers. I'll tell you where the biggest amount of money are going. The biggest amount of money since the pandemic, $11 trillion went just to the value of seven companies that own tech technology. So the biggest seven companies in the USA, $11 trillion has been...

58:24And you don't want their billionaire honest payments? Or would that help the UK? Well, if you use that money to reduce tax on working people, then it would help. They own shares in the USA, their US citizens. Yes. So that doesn't help us here. And then it will help the American consumer. And then we can export the American consumer. And it will mean the American consumer has money. and then it will show rich people how much you can achieve by taxing super rich. You are free. We can tax on super rich here. Well, I would... And then, what I want is these guys to be taxed so much that they start to sell assets.

58:52And then ordinary rich people can buy assets again, because what I want is our viewers to be able to own things. To own their own homes. When I hear this, I, I don't know as much about these issues as you guys do, but when I hear that there's these seven tech companies in the US, my brain goes, can't we have one here? Yeah. Yeah. Can't we start? And then so my brain goes, what conditions do we have We've all gone around one that we had. What conditions do we have to create to have one of those seven tech companies here, especially in this sort of AI world we're heading towards, where when I was reading through the stats, most of the investment in AI, which is going to be hugely destabilizing across every industry from driving to any form of knowledge work, even podcasting.

59:33I can play your podcast now, which sounds exactly like me, which has a 4 .6 star rating on Apple, which was written by AI in my voice, published by AI. And who's accruing the value there? Well, it's a company in America called 11 Labs and it's bloody open AI. And I go, why can't we have those companies here? We need them here. Because China and the US are dominating this next revolution. And I worry, as a bystander, that if we don't create entrepreneurship -friendly environments here, we are going to become India. If you want businesses to thrive, you don't need just a good environment for entrepreneurs.

1:00:15You also need people to have money that they can spend. We are in a country where increasingly most of the people out there have almost nothing left over the end of the month. So, in barely paid the bill. Those companies are selling globally, right? So they don't need any particular company to do well. They sell to anywhere. So like open AI chat GPT. We're all using that bloody product and paying our twenty thirty dollars a month Yeah, where do they actually get their money from? They get their money from selling data to the rich right my point was making the environment more friendly for entrepreneurs Because when I start a company I am at a I can't explain the disadvantage I'm at the moment if I start that kind of company here There's no investors and then all the talent seems to flock over to San Francisco So the the guys that bought the British guys that bought a company called fixer which I was gonna invest in all British lads from London and they went over to San Francisco.

1:01:04They're like 25 -year -olds. They've just raised at a 60 million valuation. They're in this room, this building in San Francisco, full of entrepreneurs, and they're pumping knowledge and capital into this room. Well, with all due respect, Steven, you're not a great example for the fact that it's impossible to start a successful online brand in the UK. Facts. But I also realized that the problem of, but he started when things were different. But I also realized, I don't like using personal examples because there's a huge amount of privilege. Okay, is there a chat GPD in Germany? No. Is there a chat GPD in France?

1:01:37No. Is there a chat GPD in Australia? No. Is there a chat GPD in China? In China, in China. In China. Exactly. What you have here is an extremely low labor, extremely high capital model, which employers extremely few people across the entire world that is focused in basically two cities. Yeah. Good luck competing with that. How do we create an environment where the UK can start to build some of these companies which are going to capitalize on this next technological revolution. How, if you were Prime Minister, what would you do? I think you need to look realistically about what companies do we have a chance of growing.

1:02:08You know, I'm not an expert in AI, but I think trying to compete with San Francisco and London would probably not work. Why? Try and do it. You know, try and do it. And listen, I know that you can get a lot of likes saying, let's just invest in AI, let's just invest it. Only one city in the world outside of China has managed it. China has managed it by basically state capitalism. You know, this is very similar in a sense to what we had with microelectronics in Japan in the 80s, right? When you have a new industry, especially these industries which are very capital -intense and don't employ many people, you get a first -move advantage, they tend to win.

1:02:38Eventually, often they get undercut by cheap arrivals and that does happen. You know, that does happen and you might say that in AI, I don't think AI is going to become a massive, massive employer. Of course, you know, a lot of countries are going to be like, because basically it sounds good. We're going to invest in AI. We're going to invest in AI. Personally, I think we should be looking at what does the British person need. We live in a country where the housing stock is falling apart. If we say AI, when we talk about AI, I think we're actually talking about technology, because even a podcast like this, you don't think this is an AI company, but actually now the editing process, the scripting process, the transcription process, even YouTube itself is an AI company.

1:03:17So it's really technology we're speaking about here. And I'm wondering why we can't create a better environment in the UK to start launching and building some of these technology companies. We've even seen, I think we should. And I think we should be looking at reducing taxes on people who work and make money. This is what I've been saying for the whole time. What about people who start companies? Yeah, we should reduce their tax on the income that they make. But then if they start owning a $20 million company, are you telling me, if you come to me and I say, all right, you want to start a company, we've taxed you very, very little on a company that you start.

1:03:47If that company becomes worth 20, 30, 40 million quit, then we're going to start taxing you. You're going to come and say to me, oh no, sorry, 50 million is not enough for me. Can I ask a question on that? So my company was valued at $50, whatever, 100 million. I still had, because I hadn't had next -sit event, I still had 10 ,000 pounds, 20 ,000 pounds in my bank account. Are you saying at the point when I sell the company, or are you saying just because I have shares in the company? I think you can structure a number of ways. You can structure a number of ways. My preferred way is to stop people from hoarding enormous amounts of wealth for enormous amounts of time.

1:04:23That's my, that's basically my preferred method. There's also the world tax method. There's also capital gains as a method. There's a lot of different ways here. There's a lot of different ways here. But you have to deal with the problem of, if you do not do not tax very wealthy individuals and very wealthy families, their share of the pie will obviously grow over time and they will and they are as we are watching, squeezing out ordinary families. You have to deal with that. My friend sold his company in the UK, it's a company everybody knows, and he, I remember him saying to me at the time, it was in the middle of the pandemic, he'd got this big exit event, I think he'd made three -in -a -million, and he goes, I'm off, I go, where you going?

1:04:56He goes, I'm going to go to DeBine Monaco and live between the two. And I said to him, explain to me why, he goes, well, the amount of tax I'd have to pay in the UK is equivalent to me paying 20 million rent in the UK for the next six or seven years, which you'd have to stay here for. So he went and he pops back in every now and then, but it meant that he could keep that 150 million whatever tax he would pay, never had to pay it to the UK, it's living this high -flying life now in Dubai, drops into Monaco every now and then. And I remember him saying to me, well Steve, I'd have to pay 20 million rent a year to live here and he's all went on to say the UK product, it just isn't worth it.

1:05:32He goes, I'm going to get my Rolex Rob Doffamy. He goes, the healthcare system isn't the best, the education system isn't necessarily the best and the particular one was crime, which is I'll get I'll get mugged walking through London streets. Stephen, if you allow British people who own 300 million pounds of British assets to technically even Monaco and not pay tax, then you will get crime. And you will have dirty streets and you will have a bad healthcare system and you will have education. Because if you give all of the wealth to a group of people who do not tax, there'll be nothing left to provide things like healthcare and education for all those people.

1:06:06It's not unconnected. These people are not technically living there. They're moving out. My friends have moved out of the country They don't come back to the UK. They've left and they leave with their growth company here. They've been living in low globally. And pay no tax. And you're globally business. OK. It was a global business. They don't pay no tax. They pay extortionates amounts tax. Right? Anyone who's here is paying extraordinary taxes more than they've ever paid before. 1 % pays 30%, 10 % pays 60 % of 1 .2 trillion a year. So this guy who governments paying 300 million, how much tax you're actually spending his life?

1:06:40I have no idea. I have no idea. His business was global though. His biggest customer was the US. Because I pay 60%. And our viewers will pay 30%, 40%, 50%. Do you think it's fair that your 300 million guy pays his two or three? I have no idea what he pays. Well, it sounds like he didn't pay 50 % not to... Well, he dashed before he got the tax bill. But why did we allow it? Why did we allow it? I'm not allowed to not pay my tax. What could you have done to... You are allowed to... When you were in Japan, you wouldn't have paid UK taxes. Yeah, because I was working in Japan, and then I paid Japanese taxes.

1:07:09Yeah, because you were living in Japan. This is the thing. People can live wherever they want now. But we're talking about, this is, I think we should stop obfuscating tax on people's work from tax on the assets of the government. So I'm talking about entrepreneurs' work generates wealth. So if I own a billion pound of British houses, and then I say I live in Dubai, and I'm getting the rent on a billion pounds of houses, which would probably be something like, that's gonna be something like 50 million pounds a year. So I'm getting 60, 50, 60 million pounds a year of rent from British people. And that gets paid to me from British people.

1:07:45Yeah. And I don't pay tax to live in Dubai. Do you think that's fair? Oh, right, so let's change that. Let's make people pay tax on the... The question would be, though, how would you tax people? Right, and how would you actually structure it? because regardless of what you feel like is fair, this is the thing. It's not about fairness, it's about what you can pragmatically and practically do in the modern economy. You might say, oh, I actually, like for example, if we said what's fair, a lot of people would say a flat taxes fair. You make one pound, you pay 20%, you make a million pounds, you pay 20%, you make a hundred million pounds, you pay 20%.

1:08:18So a lot of people would say the fair is taxes and would just be a flat tax on everything. That would be a fair thing. It's pragmatically, can you do it? Is it actually good for society? Should people be excluded from that? So it's not about fairness, It's about pragmatically, what can you get away with? Well, pragmatically, what we can get away with is desperate poverty for our viewers' kids. If you want to have, can we zoom out just a minute, right? I want to zoom out. Zoom away from our viewers' kids. Zoom out. Forget about them. No, no, no. I'm a dad, right? I got three kids. But you are more to me than I do.

1:08:47Do you know probably they'll have the same problems as our viewers? Do you know that kids born into the top have a 60 % chance of dropping out of the top, right? 60%. That's the number. It's called persistence. You can Google it. The persistence rates is actually only 40 % for the richest so which means 60 % drop out in the second You think your kids have a 60 % chance of living in poverty. Oh, so not poverty General it's interesting that we're all trying to aim at the same goal. Yeah, I think here. I'm not sure we are Well, I mean fast fair fast fair maybe we're not I suspect some of us maybe try to protect our kids No, I want white widespread affluence through the technological revolution that's happening And I don't want the people who create that to want to go somewhere else So you agree with me that we should cut tax and wealth creators and raise tax on wealth orders?

1:09:31Well, broadly. OK, so let's do it. Let's cut tax on people who are making income, let's cut tax on people who are working hard, creating a good product, making a good income, and let's raise tax on people who are sitting there on 20, 30, 40, 100, 200, 500 million pounds of assets that they're going to give to their kids, and they're going to use the dominate society and squeeze out the middle class. Who's an example of someone who's hoarding wealth? Which is Sunak. So, his family owns a tech company. His wife's dad owns a tech company. That's what I meant. Which he will inherit and his kids will inherit.

1:10:01His net worth that is quoted is based upon his wife's... Yeah. But that company already exists. Yeah. It's created now. Yeah. It's what billions. They have to reinvent that business every two years. Like it's a company. So, you think that the reason... You think that if Richie's son, ex -father in law, stopped managing the company would be valueless. No, I think it is, it has hundreds of thousands of people and it's, you know, it's a big company. I don't know a lot about that particular company, but I know it's a tech company. Steve Jobs died. Okay. Is Apple value less? No. Let's not pretend that these creators are the sole reason these companies are valuable.

1:10:36Sure. You know, and what we're talking about here in many cases, you know, I was a trader, okay? And I'm worth a minute is a quid and, you know, now that is just assets. I just own assets. I own the assets. and that will grow and it will grow and it will grow and it will grow. And that will squeeze out and squeeze out and squeeze out and squeeze out our views. And I'll give that to my kids. They don't even need to work. They don't even have to work. They just live on, I can live on off the wealth. Is that what you want? Do you think there are any opportunities for people today? Like if you're born into a poor family, do you think it's possible that housing being shit and we can both agree on that?

1:11:13But do you think there are new opportunities that didn't exist for our parents or grandparents, but they do exist for people today? I think the reality is, for kids from poor backgrounds, it is almost impossible to realistically get even financial security, never mind well. But why do you think you could do it? I could do it, he could do it, but you don't think other people could do it. Well, the first thing is, I'm 38 now, so I'm not a kid nowadays. Listen, I won every mass competition I've ever been in. You know what I mean? Since I was a little kid, I didn't even have a desk in my house. I was one of the top students at LSE.

1:11:47And I still had to win my job by cheating in the card game. That's the world that we live in. I don't think that's a very replicable strategy. And it's very easy for people like us who've made money. So we did it, aren't we great? Go out and you know, you've said that you think if young people go and work in tech business, they can get financial security. If it was that easy, they'd all be doing it. They're not idiots. I've heard those are not idiots. They're trying. They're trying. They want to find a good opportunity. And they work, listen up to me. I'm not saying there are idiots. You're the one who says that they can't do it anymore.

1:12:14I see people do it all the time. Like I'm working in entrepreneurs. People from poor backgrounds. Poor backgrounds. So then why are you thinking all about, if it was that easy, why is it that we're not telling you that? I'm telling you why people aren't doing it. We went through a schooling system that taught us how to get an office job. Okay. We went through a schooling system to prepare us for a world that doesn't really exist anymore, which is the industrial revolution world. And you have to go through a process of figuring out how it really works. So what I see is most often the people who do really well financially who are young, they dropped out of school, they dropped out of university, they started learning how to do things by doing their own research, they start their own business or co -founder business, they take a very alternative path.

1:12:57None of that was taught to us at school, none of it's taught to us in normal society. We have a school system that manufactures people for a set of skills that are not particularly valuable anymore and we also get them in debt for those skills. When people sidestepped that and say, okay, I'm not going to get into university debt, I'm just going to go off and actually figure out how the world works. There's actually loads of opportunities. Okay, so I guess we've sorted it then. All of our viewers need to do is go and buy a dance book, become an entrepreneur, become a millionaire. It's that easy.

1:13:29Why wouldn't you guys do it to the game with the idiots? The viewers are idiots. They should be just being more entrepreneurial. It's as simple as that. More entrepreneurial. Start a business. Listen, I come from East London, okay. My friends can't feed their kids, okay? And if it was as simple as going out and being an entrepreneur, I can bet you they would do it. I can bet you they would do it. Let us, I'm sick of, by multi -millionaires, telling kids who can't afford to stand the heating on, you just need to be more entrepreneurial. It's sick, then, it's sick. But this gives people mental illness.

1:13:58It gives people mental illness. Tell them the truth, okay? We, your older generation, we took the opportunities, and now it's almost impossible to get out of poverty. And don't just stand up and wave your millions of pounds in front of them. And say if you are entrepreneurial like me, you could do it. You could have it. Because it's sick because they can't. They can't feed their kids then. They can't turn the heating on. Don't tell them to be more entrepreneurial. Fix the system that drives more and more and more of them in -supoverty every generation. I find it very strange that you think it would be easier to fix the entire global economic system than to start a business and fix your own personal economics.

1:14:32The thing that I know that gives people mental health issues is feeling that they have no agency in their life, that they can't do anything. Your video where you talk about, if you don't have a rich dad, you're screwed. There's no such thing as meritocracy. You're never going to be successful to me. If I had to come across your content at 19, 20 years old, I would have been screwed. I was so glad that I came across people who said, Daniel, you weren't born into a rich family. you don't have any bank of mom and dad, but it's cheap and easier than ever to start a business. Start by working for someone who's got a business, then figure out what's your opportunity, and there's a way.

1:15:09There is a way. I've actually worked with a lot of teenagers from poor backgrounds, and one of the things we do is we tell them if it's possible for someone else that is possible for you. I also worked in rural Uganda with a charity that did work with the poorest of the poor. One of the most incredible things I ever saw was a woman who started out literally picking food out of a trash pile. And she was basically, they shared with her how to start a chicken business, which then ended up as a pig business, which then ended up as a cattle business. And she ended up making, hiring 15, 16 people in her local community.

1:15:50the power of entrepreneurship is that starting with nothing you can actually make improvements. I'm not saying everyone ends up as a millionaire and I'm not saying everyone ends up equal. But I'm saying you can make improvements in your life and the thing that causes mental health issues is the feeling of having no agency or no control over your circumstances until the world changes the whole economic system. I never told people don't work hard. I never once said that. Never once said that. You said if your dad wasn't rich, you'll never be rich. which is true in 99 .9 % of cases. I've never told people don't work hard.

1:16:22That's actually not true in 99 % of cases. I've never told people don't work hard, okay? And listen, if you think that you gandens should be more entrepreneurial, I've never been to Uganda, maybe that's the problem out there. Maybe that's the problem in Nigeria. Maybe that's the problem in India. Listen, I've never said don't work hard, okay? When I brought my book out last year, the hard back, I was at some event and I come out, I was drinking London Bridge and I come out late. It was like one a .m. And some guy come up to me when I was unlucky my bike. some guy from Newcastle, which is an altist of England, it's this quite poor town, there's a lot of working class people there.

1:16:56And this is all I'll be watching on YouTube and my love your stuff. And this guy started crying, this guy started crying on the street, right? In front of me, he's like, I work so hard, Gary, I work two jobs. My mom's sick and I'm trying to help, I'm trying to support, and I don't understand why and I'm sorry that I'm crying but nobody ever told me that it wasn't my fault before. That's what he said to me okay and listen listen I believe 100 % aspiration ambition entrepreneurial spirit I will never say see a kid that has that and say turn it off okay but the flip side of you if you just work hard enough you can make it is if you didn't make it it's because you didn't hard enough and it's your fault and I would like to sit and think very hard before you send that message to young men and young women in our society.

1:17:49Maritocracy doesn't mean that everyone ends up with the same result. What I'm trying to achieve, I'm trying to achieve the people who have ambition who can go for it are incentivised to do it and incentivised to build jobs and build companies. I'm not by the law, I just want to work hard and have a good family and take care of them and have a whole new man. They need to turn the heating on and be able to have one of those security. They need to work for business, don't they? They need to work for you? Yeah, well, put on. They need to work for you. They need to work for a business, some business, right?

1:18:16If someone doesn't create that business, then where do they work for? We now have, by the way, we now have 11 % of working -age people are now declared too sick to work, right? We have a huge problem in the UK. We also have 25 % of people who are working -age don't work. It's one in seven and men don't work at all. Did you think that lazy done? I think the system is collapsing. Do you think the system is to average British American working is lazy? What I think is happening is that the technology companies are totally transforming and disrupting everything. And what happened is around the post -war era, we had good jobs, you could work in a local thing.

1:18:55What's happening now is that jobs are going to the Philippines. They're going to technology does three things. It makes jobs more simple, which means they're more replaceable. It makes jobs global where you can move them to anywhere else. And then ultimately it automates the job altogether and gets rid of it through code and software. And what's really going on in the last, especially five years since the pandemic, is technology has decimated the existing systems that we all relied upon when we grew up. And when I say the education system isn't really working, it's still pretending that there are office jobs available for people when they graduate.

1:19:33And it's still pretending that there's like 1950s scenarios available when actually my kids are going to be disrupted by AI. Everyone's kids are going to be disrupted by AI. These sorts of things are the things that really we also need to be talking about. To all the founders and small business owners listening, I think you need to hear this. It's an update from my sponsor, Fiverr. They've just launched something called Fiverr Go. and ensure it's a huge game changer for you and your team. It's a tool that's been created to help freelancers train and control a personalized AI tool specific to them and in their style, which means that five of freelancers and their clients can now generate unique work almost instantly, purely by combining their own unique style of freelance talent with personalized AI technology.

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1:20:57Because I would like you, Daniel, to give the counter to your own argument. Because I want to make sure, when we're talking about solutions to this problem, start a business, be entrepreneurial, you can also understand how that might, that works for people with our brains and our mindset and whatever we had that made us do that, our risk appetite, our trauma, whatever it might be. But not everybody is widened in such a way. So that's not necessarily the best solution for everyone. And also we sit here with a bit of hindsight bias, where we were lucky and it worked out for us. When you look at the stats around businesses succeeding, what you know the stats, it's like 90 % of businesses fail.

1:21:33So most of them are failing. The ones that emerge from that people like me, then we have a bias where we go, well, it works. So you go to, I don't come from money, so I have the same bias like I watched. Well, I've built from scratch several times because I got disrupted several times. So I've had to start with nothing several times and build. But you start when we start the type of person, right? And when we say start from nothing, you actually started with a wealth of information and the whole game in big building business. Intellectual capital having been through it before, being around that men toward that gave you information.

1:22:01Also having access to a great market. Like having access to a free market is a big thing. I was born in Australia and I moved to London at the peak of London's economic freedom. So this can't be broadly applicable advice, can it? Yeah, well, I think personal agency is broadly applicable. Yes, I do. I got this friend of mine who woke up one day, He went out clubbing, went out to a nightclub, felt sick, collapsed, woke up and they'd chopped off all four -al limbs. So he quadruple amputee. He was 19 years old. So he wakes up in bed and he basically says, I'm a quadruple amputee. I was fine 48 hours ago and now I'm a quadruple amputee.

1:22:38And he decides to make this decision in the hospital room that this is going to be the best thing that ever happened to him. And he makes that decision. Even that is a consequence of his, him and his wiring. What I'm trying to understand is... But he ended up starting a clinic and it's a multi -million dollar clinic. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. And he's the exception. And he's the exception. Not the rule. It's incredible. But you only need a few people to succeed and the whole economy starts to improve. We actually, in this UK, we're only at the peak of our entrepreneurial, like, blitzing it, where we're doing so well.

1:23:10There was only 40 ,000 scale -ups. 40 ,000 companies were creating jobs growth with higher wages, investment into the country. You know, it's only 1 % of people who pay 30 % of the taxes and 10 % of people who pay 60 % of the taxes. So you only need one in 100 to actually create something that's valuable and you get an extra 30 % of taxes. But so that again is, we need this one. That's advice for the people that end up getting into that 1%. But this is everyone else's work for. Like all jobs growth comes from entrepreneurs. So what are you saying to those, the 99 % there? Are you saying go get a job?

1:23:44Well, you need wealth creators in the economy who are building something. Like you take gym shark, people who work at gym shark, they're super glad that this guy started the company. They're really happy that there's a company, otherwise where would they go? What would they work? Where would they work? So if Ben decides that he doesn't want to start that company in the UK, or if he gets to 10 million in stops, then all of those additional jobs are toast. They're all gone. So you're encouraging the entrepreneurial and you're not encouraging everyone to become an entrepreneur. You're saying those that have those that bias or that.

1:24:21I'm saying we need a system that encourages the people who can to do. And what about everybody else? Well, the flow on effect is that that creates jobs, that creates wealth in the economy and free markets lift everybody up. free markets just means that everyone's trading with everyone. It starts to, like the whole thing, I mean, it's just a tail as old as time. As soon as economies are free and there are entrepreneurs starting things and growing things, everyone's life improves, everyone's life get better. And what's your, what part of that do you disagree with, Gary? I think it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

1:24:58The only period, listen, the last 70 years are not normal, Stephen. The last 70 years are not normal. The last 70 years in Europe and the US, where ordinary people like my dad could work for the post office, unless the average wage and buy a house to support family, it's not normal. It's not normal in the world and it's not normal in history. Most countries in the world are not like that. Most countries have a small, super -rich elite and a very large group of extremely poor people. That's most of the country and it's most of history in this country and it's most of history in the US. You know, you know, we talk about Charles Dickens.

1:25:28I read hard times. I read hard times and this is written in the 19th century when Britain was like the industrial superpower of the whole world and at the time the government was talking about should we tax these industrialists and the industrious for saying if you tax us we'll throw our factories into the sea and it just reminds me you know the only time we've ever really been able to provide decent living conditions for all know -working people was the period after the war where we massively redistributed wealth and now we're losing that holding of wealth in the middle class. Can you acknowledge that that was a completely different time as it relates to being able to?

1:26:03It was a different time, but you know, I could, you know, because of technology. I'm a period today, Brazil, today, the UK, 300 years ago, France, 200 years ago. There was only one specific time that we have ever successfully provided, broad living standards for ordinary people, and it was at period of time where we protected a broadly equal world distribution and tax the rich at very high rates. And you can acknowledge that that's extremely hard to do because of the nature of the economy. 100 % is now different. That's the reason why all of our grandparents and our great -grandparents and our great -great -grandparents did poverty.

1:26:33And that's why I know I'm probably going to lose. And that's why I bet on the economy getting worse. And that's why I know poverty is going to increase. Because it was extremely difficult to get that unusually fair share for all know -working people. And I know we lose the argument. And I know that for our dual win and I know that Trump will win. And I know that things will get worse. I don't think I'm going to win. So if you know you're promoting a strategy that is not going to work and it sounds like you think is incredibly almost impossible then why would you not be more practical in your solution?

1:27:05Stephen, if it was impossible I wouldn't be here. So you think it's possible? Of course it's possible. Of course it's possible. But you believe you're not going to win. I'm a betting man, Steve. I'm a betting man. I put my bets on. You know, if you think it's okay, look. So my YouTube channel is growing really, really quickly and you know I'm obviously starting a bit of a movement and there's a lot of political support and if it keeps growing we'll get more political support. At the end of the day, I'm trying to tax the richest and most powerful people in the world. And most of these people will come out and attack me and they'll try and stop me and I do not have billions of balance, hundreds of millions of balance to use to support my YouTube channel.

1:27:38I am counting on ordinary people like your viewers to support and share my message. Now listen, for most of history, that has not worked. And for most of history, ordinary families live in poverty. I don't think it's impossible that we ordinary people can win and get a fairer share, but I think it's worth fighting for Steve, so I fight for it anyway. He's right that for most of history, you've had the super elite and then everyone else is down here and it's massive wealth inequality is almost the normal for the last 5 ,000 years and almost everywhere you've got kings, queens, jukes and peasants and serfs down there.

1:28:12There have been economic situations that have been different. Dubai is a really strange situation. It's a desert. It's inhospitable to live in. It's the last place in the world. Most people would think or choose that they would want to be and yet It's one of the most economically rich places in the world right now. They actually didn't start with oil wealth They were able to borrow money to build Dubai But the low tax environment has now attracted some of the world's most talented people to go and build technology companies there And if you I don't know have you been there recently? I've been to the bias here I'm up at the moment.

1:28:43It is the most thriving entrepreneurial community on earth outside of the US but probably even rivaling the US, that there are investors, there's entrepreneurs, and the wealth is going through the roof. I've got two friends who are personal trainers, fitness trainers. One fitness trainer has decided to stop working more hours because he's hit 50 grand a year and he now gets taxed at 40%. So he's basically decided he's going to earn right up to 50 ,000 and then stop working. And then the other fitness trainer went to Dubai, launched an online fitness community and has just bought a $350 ,000 Ferrari.

1:29:19And one entrepreneur is super pumped and super excited about building a business because he's not overtaxed. The other entrepreneur has literally said, I'm not willing to do this because of how much I have to pay. I've always campaigned for lower taxes. I'm working for lower taxes. I'm working for lower taxes. Always, always. But here's the thing, right? If I was asked you, you've just become one of the best selling authors in the country. If your publisher came to you and said, because you're in the top 1 % of our authors, we're going to halve your royalties if you sign a second book with us.

1:29:47You wouldn't sign a second book with them. You go to another publisher who says, we'll pay you more royalties because you're so successful. I would have written this book for free then. I would have written this book for free. In fact, the first time I got offered a deal, I said, I said, don't pay me any of my stuff. Then give you royalties away. Why? Well, because if you... Well, what I'm saying... I'll give my royalties away. No, but I'm saying... I'll show my YouTube channel down. I'll stop working. I'm saying we respond to incentives that if your publisher, if Penguin came to you, and said book number two you get half royalties because you're in the top one percent.

1:30:17Would you sign with Penguin or would you go with someone from the two million pound job a year? To run a YouTube channel. Do you think I do the work that I do for money? I'm not talking about that you do it for money. I'm just saying, if you had the option to sign between two publishing contracts, right? And all things being equal, one's gonna penalize you for being in the top one percent and the other one's gonna reward you for being in the top one percent. Would you, of course you would go with the normal, like if all things being equal, you wanna write a second book anyway. It's the same for entrepreneurs.

1:30:44When entrepreneurs start companies, we can either start them in high tax economies or with a stroke of a pen start them in low tax economies. So I think the rich world is gonna have to start rethinking the fact that it allows people to, very, very wealthy people to own enormous amounts of their physical wealth, going to live overseas and not pay tax. I think that has to be revisited for sure. Because what you're saying is, I want the benefit of being able to sell to the US market and the UK market, but I don't want the obligation of having to pay US and UK taxes. And you are correct, at the moment, the US and UK governments allow that.

1:31:15And I think that's for no reason. The US and UK governments have to stop that. But the way I see it, the US and UK governments have increasingly a lot of global governments. A kind of being brought up by the elites. You know, we have Elon Musk is basically the president, right? And we had Rishi Sunak who's fatherland always one of the richest men in the world. Like, if you're Rishi Sunak, who for our American viewers, was our prime minister until recently, His father always wanted the richest man in the world. He's got 700 million pounds of personal wealth. He's going to be making 30, 40 million pounds of passive income.

1:31:47And you're getting paid 130 grand a to be prime minister. When you're making policy, do you think maybe I'll ask my father no it was? Yeah, that's right. The fact that he's all you're seeing here is, if you allow the rich, I'm never, ever against entrepreneurship. I'm not against people getting rich. If you allow the rich to get richer and richer and richer, they squeeze the middle class and they squeeze the poor class out of things like housing, of things like space in cities, of things like energy, and of things like owning a sharing government. Do you acknowledge the countries that adopt a anti -rich big government approach, tender collapse?

1:32:22Like this country in the 60s. Well, we needed a US bailout. We needed an IMF bailout in 1976. But the US did the same thing. The US had a higher taxis than us. We basically, you take all the countries where the government becomes big. They meddle with your life. They're involved in every decision. and half the economy. I mean, here's one other thing. This period is known as the Golden Age of Capitalism. It's the period of time when... What's the period now? It's 50 years after the Second World War. Oh, it's the golden age of middle class to be middle class. You don't care about the middle class?

1:32:53No, of course I do. But the 70 years after the World War II, where the government sold off all of the houses to middle class people, so we got housing wealth, but you can only do that trick once. So you can only sell off all the houses to everyone once, which is why all the baby boom is on. Well, the living standards collapsed after the houses were sold. There was a long period where the houses weren't sold. Between the second or the second, when do you pinpoint living standards collapsing? Well, I think there's a few obviously big moments. I think 2008 is a big moment. I think COVID is a big moment.

1:33:24I think it's the 80s where you start to see the world distribution goes. What matters is actually the distribution itself. So once you change the tax system, it takes a bit of time for the world distribution to change. But once you start, for me, the big thing is the loss of world funding. I want ordinary families to be able to hold wealth. So, and once you lose that, you lose them into class, and you will not find me a single country in the world, now or the history of the world, that has provided good, broad living standards without allowing ordinary families to own assets. Yeah, I agree. And take Singapore, for example, where everyone's encouraged to own properties, they've got an amazing system in Singapore, they've taken a massive government, by the way, enormous government.

1:34:02It's 25 % of GDP. They have a wealth, they own all the houses. They have a wealth, they own all the houses. They don't own all the houses. They have a sovereign wealth fund that circulates houses through they've they own have solved They've solved Singapore arms the house they own the Singapore government owns an enormous share of the house So do you think we should own my pension pension funds people They force not force their citizens, but they Direct their citizens into home ownership. You don't think Singapore and government owns a lot of I just know that you the Singapore In government's only 25 % of the economy But a big show that house is 75 % of the economy is I'd like to say by the way just to be really clear I've never ever once advocated for big government.

1:34:39Never a single time. Never a single time. I will hire taxes on the world orders, so he can tax wealth creators and working people less. I don't want to be a government. I want our viewers to have more money. I want our viewers to have more money. And also, I want to tax those super rich so that they stop squeezing ordinary families out of asset ownership. It just, yeah. It seems like an obvious solution. It seems like... Yeah, it seems good solution. It seems like, like, hey, who's got the money? Rich people. Not the money, the assets. They've got the assets. Rich people, then let's just take them off and...

1:35:12No, no, no, no, I don't want to redistribute. I am the only person on this table, anti -redistribution, because the redistribution is happening in front of our eyes. The middle class is losing its assets. Government is losing its assets. Those assets are being accumulated by the rich. I want to stop the redistribution, please. Please, I am the most anti -redistribution person in this game. We need to stop the redistribution of wealth away from ordinary British and American families. So the difference is for me, it's very simple, which is I really, truly believe that free markets and low governments and less taxes creates more wealth in the middle.

1:35:47Dan, free them for the heron is death for the fishes. If we have complete freedom, multimillionaires like you and me will get richer and richer and richer every year and we will squeeze out and we will eat the middle class. That is what we know. If wealth inequality could be solved, but everyone does worse, is that a good solution? Obviously not. The whole reason I do is because I don't want ordinary people to close into problems. This is about people being able to feed their kids. So wealth inequality is not the problem. It's collapsed. That's a quite contorted. So yeah, I mean, living quite a well -concortated load.

1:36:18The problem is. Living standards. I am somebody who has made millions of pounds by understanding the simple fact that living standards are falling because of growing wealth inequality. So living standards, if they were to increase, but they were super rich, is that a problem? I think you do need to be worried about extremely wealthy elites. I think it's... What's interesting? You look at the founding of the United States. These guys, the founding of the United States conceptually is really based on these ideas of distribution of power. That's why you have the president and the House and the Senate and you have this independent judiciary.

1:36:51They're like, we cannot allow power to become concentrated because they came from a Europe which had extremely concentrated power and extremely wealthy elites and extremely broad poverty. So I think that allowing a small group of society to increasingly monopolize power and wealth over time is obviously something we should be worried about. But primarily, the reason I worry about wealth inequality is because I see and I bet on and I make money on the fact that it causes living standards to fall. By the way, I actually really agree with you in the founding fathers of the US, they did, especially around the 1900s, they did want to break up monopolies.

1:37:26And break up monopolies was one of the big things that they did trust busting, where they broke up standard oil and all of those sorts of things. One thing I do really see happening at the moment is that we have a stupid, outdated definition of monopolies where we use monopolies the same way they used it when they had the oil companies that owned all the oil. In the technology world, a monopoly is formed through an ecosystem. So Amazon, for example, owning AWS and Audible and this and this and this and Whole Foods, it creates a fortress that's almost impossible to compete with and Google owning YouTube and Gmail and all of this.

1:38:07They create these fortresses through ecosystems. One of the things that I do think we need to look at is compulsory breakup of big tech once you hit a certain time because it's very difficult because, you know, billionaires have two big fears, right? Keep them up at night, having nightmares. Number two is high taxes. Number one is that startup entrepreneur who disrupts their business and they want to kill that early, you know, Steve Jobs, 24 years old, disrupted IBM and Jeff Bezos disrupted Walmart. So they are terrified of entrepreneurs in the middle and they want to create government regulations to say, hey, you know what?

1:38:45Let's cap entrepreneurs at 10 million. You can get to 10 million. It's okay for us. We're way past that point, but Gary's our guy because he's going to cap everyone out of 10 million. I never said cap anyone at 10 million by the way. Well, because when people happen, people stop. As soon as you have wealth taxes, people just give up. So he said in the out of view, as if they said, if they knew they could build a 20, 30 million pound contract. That sounds ridiculous. But they knew they would have to pay 20. If you were 30 million, 1 % above, it's 200 grand a year. So if I said, if you, you can have a 30 million pound contract.

1:39:12Just try to stop. Just bear in mind, right? You make I think five percent a year on your wealth, right? So if you've got 300 million pound company, you're gonna be making 15 million pound a year. And I'm turning to you and I'm gonna say, you know, you've got to pay 200 grand a year on your 15 million pound revenue. And they're gonna say, you know what? I'm not gonna start a business. I don't wanna be worth 30 million quid. This is a cover, you know this is ridiculous. You know nobody is gonna say, oh my God, I don't wanna be a multi -multimillionaire because in 20 years time, I'll have to pay 1 % taxes.

1:39:37But most traders, most traders are earning, what most people earn in lifetime, traders can earn in a year. most traders don't stop. Not only that. Talk about that a lot in the book. So most traders just keep going. Entrepreneurs are the same that they're motivated to keep going. But when you have wealth advisors and investors saying, do not build a company in the UK because they're anti -wealth. I'm not trying to make the UK anti -wealth. I'm not trying to make the UK anti -wealth. I think the UK and the US need to be looking at a situation where you cannot allow people who own enormous businesses that sell to your country, to live in Dubai, to live in the Cayman Islands, I'm not paid tax.

1:40:16And I don't think that's a controversial position. I've got a question for both of you, which is if you are a young person and you're 18 years old now, and that you're listening to this, but your objective really is an individualistic one. You want to get rich and you have a great future for you and your family, like all of us have been able to do. What would your advice be to them, Gary, at this moment in time? This is such a hard question. I know Dan's angry at me for putting my video how to get rich. somebody came around to my house and asked me this other day obviously I get asked it a lot because stupidly I'm very public about the fact that I'm rich.

1:40:49What I did is not replicable. What I did is not replicable. It's not. I'm sorry, I'm sorry but it's not. People always say why don't you teach me to trade? Like it's hard. It's hard trading and it's dangerous and I think a lot of young men are getting sort of sold into trading and becoming gambling addicts. You know, work hard and I wouldn't even say don't become an entrepreneur. I've never ever said these things. Work hard, you know, if you think that you have an opportunity in tech entrepreneurship, go for it, understand it's risky. I think that sometimes this message just becoming an entrepreneur and you'll make it a bit dangerous because I think most people who tried to become entrepreneurs fail and I think it's super, super dangerous.

1:41:23The reality is, and you know, maybe download like this, maybe you aren't like this, I think it is very, very difficult for a young man or a young woman from a poor family to become rich. And I think it's increasingly hard even to just get those basics of financial security. So, listen, obviously reduce your spending if you can. Don't go into this like Valencia -Argo bullshit. Stay away from that. But work hard, study hard, try to get a good job. But also understand, we are shrinking the seats on the lifeboat. That's what we're doing. We used to allow 50 % to be secure. Then it's 40%, then it's 20%.

1:41:58Then it's 20%. You know, you've got family in Nigeria. If a young person from like Shantytown in Nigeria came to you and said, Steve, what could I do to get rich? You would have to say to realistically listen, you are in a difficult situation here. You need to work really, really hard, but if you are able to make enough money to support a family, be proud of yourself. What I would actually say to them, so I have got family in Nigeria. For people that I don't know, I've blood half Nigerian, I would say to them that knowledge is really your life raft. So obviously there's a big tech boom happening in Nigeria which is liberating a lot of people from that situation.

1:42:33So I would try and tell them to get on the life raft that is like knowledge of this new revolution. So from Nigeria, you can learn to code and then the great thing now is that we're hot. We literally have actually, this is quite interesting. We're building a tech company in San Francisco called Flightcast. It's live. Everyone can go look at Flightcast .com. And the lead developer, oh, and guest radar, the lead developer of guest radar is an Nigerian guy. But how many of those jobs in the Nigerian tech sector are going to kids that grew up in the Shanti towns? I have no idea. Because I worked in...

1:43:05People ask me, tell me how to do what you did, right? I worked in Canarywall. It's in East London. I could see the building from my house growing up. There was not a single other kid from East London the whole time I was there. Judjud to Dan's point about this remote work revolution where like work now has... You can work from anywhere. In an our company, Third -Wed, San Francisco, met some of the staff that we now have are in the Philippines because they just have like great creatives there, it's obviously more cost effective. Isn't this a huge part of what's going on in our economy, this, this digitalization and this remotification of work?

1:43:39It is, it is. But I think for many people, you know, I'm sure he's been working in the Philippines very, very well. Most of these people, they used to have a half decent wage and office, and now they're locked in their bedrooms barely paying the bills. Yeah. In the Philippines? No, in the Philippines. The Philippine guys are balling around to try. No, I'm saying the Philippines is booming at the moment. So you think the average person at Philippines is living a luxurious life? Have you, what's happening at the moment? Do you think the average person in the Philippines is living a luxurious life?

1:44:15There is this thing called remote foreign workers and this is a huge boom. So the kitchen moved to the Philippines then? It's great. You get a great quality of life in the Philippines. You know, when I look to the stums of Manila, they should just get job, I don't know why they're not getting the laptops out. The poverty in the Philippines is horrific. Listen, Philippines is a beautiful country. An amazing country. I love the Philippines. I mean, there's a number of times. But what is the life like for your average Filipino? Well, would you agree that their economy is just getting flooded with money at the moment?

1:44:45Like, money's flowing in there. Money is flowing in, but it is not giving a good quality of life your average Filipino. That's not true. Remote foreign workers. Well, we can remote from our work as Philipino viewers to tell us what's the best work that can actually support their often support their entire family. I don't know what the average wage is in the Philippines. Just to bring it back to this point though, so I wanted to today from Gary, he said, work hard, if you're a young guy listening to this now. I was reading this really interesting article yesterday from the, I think it was from Major Newspaper talking about the lost boys.

1:45:13And it goes to show that I think it's one in seven young men that is at a working age now out of work. So there's lots of talk around young men in particular and how they're struggling. You'd say work hard, Gary. You'd say - Work hard. No blancy hour. But the big thing is - No blancy hour. The big thing is recognize the situation that you're in. And I would encourage them to support my work and follow my channel because the lifeboats are shrinking and trust me, we're going to get alchids in the lifeboats. We all know that, all right? And if those lifeboats are shrinking, if you don't stop the shift from going down, it is not you and you and me, who are gonna go down, will be fine.

1:45:50If you don't fight the political fight, I guarantee you people like Daniel will. So you're saying that they should also get involved in the political fight? You have to, you have to, that's what our grandparents did. And if they wanna become millionaires like you and me and Dan. Well, it sounds like Dan's got better advice for that than I do. Okay, well I'm gonna ask Dan, so by just wondering, I'm wondering how your advice ties into sort of like, the young person who's trying to liberate themselves from where you came from or where I came from. You know, I don't think I'm the guy to say that, man, because, you know, I had this unusual gift from a young age.

1:46:23I was very, very, very good at maths, and I just followed that. And, you know, my sister, she's a poet, and she wrote a really successful, Grime musical about Deziráša's first album, all right? She comes from obviously the same family as me, poor family. She works so hard. She works so, so hard. Two degrees. She can barely pay the rent, all right? So I don't want to turn around to our young kids and say, well, I've got this talent, follow your talent. Because it doesn't work, Stephen. True. It doesn't work. Yeah. Wait, my city does great work. Yeah. But financially, for young people, following your passion, following your talent, unless you come from rich family, realistically, very, very rarely works.

1:47:03And I know it worked for the three of us at this table, but let's not pretend that everyone experiences the same things that we experienced. What would you say to that, darling? What's your answer? I think there's two economies going on at the moment. there's a dying economy, which is the industrial revolution economy. And that is all the office jobs and the factory jobs and all of that sort of stuff, which is very much being automated away and moved to globally. And at the same time, there's this new bubbling up digital economy, which I'd call the entrepreneurial economy or the digital economy.

1:47:31Both of these economies are kind of co -existing. One's going like that, one's going like that. And if you want to be economically successful, you need to stand next to the biggest piles of money that you can. You know, unfortunately, being a poet doesn't pay a lot of money and we all know that. That's not a surprise. If you came from a very rich family and you're a poet, you'd probably be one of the 60 % who fell out of a rich family as well. If you want to be economically successful, you need to say what is the thing that's economically booming right now? Gary saw the finance industry at that particular time.

1:48:07But if we actually look at the finance industry now, it's in decline. And trading is being replaced by AI robots. People who work in your career are going to be replaced by IT systems that basically do similar jobs. It's going to be, you know, these things happen. We're going through a massive technological change. But at the same time, it's never been easier to learn skills for free on YouTube. It's never been easier to join communities where you can get mentoring and get support. There are communities of angel investors who do invest in startups. It's never been cheaper or easier to start a company.

1:48:46There's never been more software and technology to scale and grow, you know, in just a in a short space of time. I would say do what Gary's done. Gary publishes online. He's built a personal brand. He's attached it to a recurring revenue model. He's got... I also worked for three for three for four He's got some unnotchable, how replicable that is. You know, so build a personal brand, attach it to a business model that is where money's flowing. These are positive things you can do. We all have to play the cards with dealt. You can always find someone who's done better with better cards or someone who's been dealt better cards and you can always find someone who's been dealt worse at cards.

1:49:21No matter who you are on the planet, there's someone better, there's someone worse. You have to play the cards that you're dealt. You cannot sit around waiting for the economic system of the world to be changed. You have to say, you know what, these are the cards I was born at this particular time. In these circumstances, these are my strengths, these are my weaknesses. I'm going to play the cards that I've dealt. Personal agency is what gets people to feel good about their life, to make progress. And as soon as you play the victim mindset, as soon as you say, oh, you know what, the answer to all my prayers is Gary's going to change the system.

1:49:54You're in serious trouble. Good night, is there one thing back on that? If we become a society of individuals who think only individually and never consider broader societal problems, we will become a society that becomes unable to fix societal problems. I am somebody who has made millions of pounds betting on the collapse of society, the collapse of middle class. I don't want to be giving stock tips on the Titanic. Okay. I understand, I understand that we live in individualized societies and it's not popular to say, hey, you need to protect your society. If you don't protect your society, your society is going to collapse.

1:50:32And the British public, the American public, have a choice to make it. What would they look like? I mean, to protect these views. What do you want people to do? I want them to get involved with watch my channel. I want to subscribe to my channel. On YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, share it with your friends. Share it with your mum. And then what? And then push for change. Push for change, like our grandparents did. Push the politicians to text, working people less and text extremely well if you're well -poured as more. So vote for the Greens. Vote for whoever gives you that, whoever gives you your share of the party.

1:51:00So basically, this is not football, okay? I'm not here, Gary Stimmanson, member of the Green Party. But also, I'm here to protect the working class. So that's their sort of, that would be their social and sort of political energy would be to stand up and fight. But in their personal lives, are you telling them to start businesses, take big risks, work really hard, go for it because they can also... You know, I'll defer to you guys on that. You know, I'm not a businessman, I'm an economist. That's what I am. You know, I made my money by being an economist. I'm a very, very good economist. My predictions will be right.

1:51:28People can go and watch my predictions at the beginning of COVID. I predicted the entire COVID crisis exactly correctly in May 2020. You know, this is, you know, I'm good at this. I'm, and listen, I'm never going to come here and say I'm a better businessman than you. And I don't, I'm pretty sure that I'm not. I'm a very, very, very good economist. This will happen. Is there something that I can do if I'm sat here listening at home? I understand everything you said. I believe everything you said. I believe that it's going to get worse for me. Do you think I should still take responsibility of my situation and fight to make my life richer, better, more successful?

1:52:01100%. 100%. Because you know, and I'm sure you know, if you're average British or American, if you don't do that, you're not going to be able to turn the heat in on. You have to do it. You have to do it. And I've never once, and I think my opinions are optimist characterised, being anti -ambition. You've read my book, do you think I'm anti -ambition? No. I work my tits off to make money and I want every single young person in this country to be able to make money if they want to if that's what they want to work towards But we've created a society where it's almost impossible for young listen I've been there.

1:52:28I've been at LSE I've been at Oxford. I've been in the city. I've been in the media I've been in politics all of the guys at the top are a bunch of rich idiots We are not allowing these smart kids from ordinary backgrounds to get into those spaces. Why do we pretend we're not doing that? I disagree with that. You're talking about two types of elite spaces a lead space of elite universities. Yeah. And you're talking about the elite space of derivatives trading. There's the real economy where entrepreneurs do their work. Then there's the first derivative, which is the banking system. And then there's the second derivative, which is rates traders like yourself.

1:53:02Right? These are places that normal people don't want to end up. Most normal people who grow up in normal households don't wake up one day and say, I want to be a rates trader on a double derivative of the economy making bets. Most people want to start a business that employs people and they want to grow that business and be successful. Do you think that starting a business is a realistic, high success probability chance of ordinary poor people becoming rich? I know that economies thrive when entrepreneurs are active and it's not just the entrepreneurs, they create opportunities. Is that an obvious can do?

1:53:38Most of them will end up rich. You only need one percent to improve the whole economy. There's a really interesting start that says, There's globally around 65 % of ultra -high net worth individuals are self -made. Approximately 19 % primarily inherited their wealth and about 16 % inherited wealth, but significantly grew it through their own ventures. So 65 % of the ultra -high net worth individuals globally are self -made. Does that not mean that if I want to become an ultra -high net worth person, it's going to become down to? Listen, we are just come off the back of the Golden Age of Capitalism.

1:54:09When ordinary people like my dad, you know, I grew up in Elford. It's a nice London, it's a very immigrant area. Most of my friends I grew up with come from Pakistani, Indian, immigrant backgrounds. They can move with nothing, they worked really hard, they made money, they had their own assets. We had the period where ordinary people could make money and could make wealth. So obviously we are now in a period where there are rich people who made money during that period. It's over now. I'm seeing ordinary people making money all the time. Okay, so you're telling others they're idiots. Why are they not making money?

1:54:35I'm not telling anyone they're an idiot. I'm saying that. If it's that easy, okay, all right, fine. I'm saying go and buy a dance book, read it, become a millionaire because that thinks it's easy to become a millionaire, by being an entrepreneur. But I suspect have you not been an entrepreneur? Do you know what's more so that people who've read your book are not millionaires? Everything you've touched has turned to gold. You turn yourself to academia, you got an amazing qualification. You turn yourself to banking, you became two million a year, you turn yourself to being a writer, you become Sunday Times Best Seller, you turn yourself to content creating, you get 800 ,000 followers.

1:55:06And now you sit there after all of that evidence and say, oh no, it's all over guys. So I'm smart enough to do it. You guys are not smart enough to do it. If you think you can teach, you've got your book. If you think you say that you're smart enough, but they're not smart enough. I wonder if we do have a bit of an education problem at the heart of this because I was thinking about your sister and I was like, right, if I was the CEO of Gary's sister, what would I hear? There's two things I do right now. The first is, I can wear what market place is really valuing an ability to write and write an impactful where I go right, she needs to start an Instagram page because I've seen what happened with JShet, this guy's pulling in tens of millions a year because he took like, you know, nice words that were motivational, poetic, put the one that, and I go, also YouTube, he's to get to YouTube because if she can talk like you, then she's going to do exceptionally well on YouTube as well.

1:55:55But the old, there's not going to be a great economy necessarily for someone who's doing poetry in many other places other than what I'm saying is the internet. But in school, we don't teach this. There's no YouTube class for YouTube and and it's such a huge part of the economy. I mean, I mean, you've seen that. There's been this decentralization of media where the megaphone was going 20 % a year. The megaphone was going to be watching start YouTube because it's the internet is the easy. I'm not saying it's easier. For most people know, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Why are we pretending it does?

1:56:28But what I would say is if in school we taught young kids a couple of new things and we we stopped teaching them about Pythagoras' theorem, which by the way, ChatGBT is gonna do for you with your eyes closed. And we taught them about the new economy of the internet, about the ability to start a shop. And it's crazy that the school system was designed in such a way where they put me in exclusion unit because I was so preoccupied with doing business deals at school. And my headmaster came on a national TV on what I liked, and said, yeah, we unexpelled them eventually, because he made the school so much money.

1:56:57But the system was punishing me for entrepreneurship, and it wasn't teaching me anything about the new economy, which is technology. Steve, do you think it matters if the percentage of young people who are able to achieve financial freedom and have a family is shrinking? So, do I think it matters if the percentage of young people that are able to... Are you saying a tame wealth and have a family? Yeah, if I achieve financial freedom and have a family... I think that's a really big problem. I think that's a really big problem. I know, listen, and I know you've got this podcast, and I know you inspire young people, but I think that's a good thing.

1:57:31I think it's a good thing that inspired on people to go out and work hard and try and achieve something. But I'm an economist, and what I see is the percentage of young people who make it shrinking. And I think if you combine those two things, you reach a really dangerous place because we go and tell the young people, it's there for you to start a business. And at the same time, the number of people who make it is 10%, 5%, 2%, 1%. And there will always be that one person who makes it. There will always be that Stephen Bartlett in every country the world is making it through. You know what I'm saying?

1:57:56But the system like issue matters, Stephen. Can we not change the education system so that when I was 16 and they threw me in the exclusion unit which made me which could so easily have made me think that I was a failure because my brothers who went, Jason went to LSE and became very much like you and how works in my company managing my investments, he in the education system was rewarded. So I sat there as a kid thinking rich and successful, my older brother Jason because he can do maths and I thought I'm going to be failure because I like this thing called entrepreneurship and I have ADHD so I can't pay attention in lessons.

1:58:30What I'm saying is if the education system was designed in such a way where people like me who are entrepreneurial, who are interested in the internet and can stop playing video games, were clapped for and said, oh my god, double down on that. Yeah. I think the net benefit when you think about what the backbone of the economy is, which is entrepreneurial starting businesses, would be profound for this country here. But I think that I believe there needs to be such a radical overhaul of our education system if we want to stand a chance of capitalizing on what the economy is today. Yeah, I think you could probably change the education system in a lot of ways that could improve it, but you're kind of changing the education system on the Titanic.

1:59:07What my perspective is, I can tell you with a very, very higher rate of certainty, if you don't fix this problem of the wealth being sucked out of middle class, 95, 98 % of people will be in poverty in this country in 70 years. I agree with you. This is the thing. I agree that you can't have a group of people at the very top that own all the assets and all the money or else, I mean, it's going to come from somewhere. And I remember the day that I printed off the job seeker's allowance form when I was stealing Chicago town pizzas 10 years ago in my room in Mossside in Manchester. I remember what it feels like to not have my parents speaking to me to be have all these CCJ letters and bailiff letters on my desk and really have no answer how to get out of this situation.

1:59:46to the point that I was like, shoplifting, I'd call the just eat driver and then Trump has weighed him just to give me the food. That was 10 years ago for me. So it's not, I've not forgotten those years of my life. So I understand what it is to be in that situation and on an individual level, I need some answers because I'm not gonna wait for these people in the parliament to fix my life for me. So I need some individual answers and then I do also care about the bigger picture. So I'm not like here as someone that just wants a crew loads of wealth myself. Of course, listen, let's be honest, no one like, there's not many human beings that wouldn't like more money, so I try and acknowledge that bias, but what I'm the biggest issue I have is, is how?

2:00:29And from my personal experience, as someone that now employs hundreds and hundreds of people here in London, up in Manchester in our offices, there are a set of things that would make me leave this country. If it became increasingly less friendly entrepreneurs. I reckon if we come back here in five years time, I reckon I'll employ 500 more people in the UK and actually as you look around this room you can see the age of them. These are young people. There are things you could do to make me not do that. It's probably worth putting out that we're not taxing wealth and you're leaving the country anyway.

2:01:00No, I haven't left the country. Okay. I'm a tax resident here. I pay my taxes here and I have zero intent in changing that. And we'll start on jagged. So we're investing a lot of money in UK businesses. But listen, I want to raise, I want to tax only high levels of wealth, only high levels of wealth. And listen, don't get me wrong, I understand. Very rich people will complain and very rich people will say, just like I did in Dickens, I'm going to throw my businesses, I'm going to throw my taxes in my business, my factories into the sea. Steven, your viewers are here. Listen, Steven, your viewers are here, you are a very wealthy person.

2:01:32They are paying 20, 30, 40, 50 percent. You should be paying your fair share, Steven. You should. I think that I should pay more tax, especially when I don't think my kids should benefit from my wealth. And maybe this is a controversial opinion, but I actually don't. I don't think I should be able to pass down my assets to my children. You can't. It's 40 % tax. I think it should be more. It's 40... Yeah, it's not... It's not pretend rich people don't success in their past their assets. No, I'm just telling you now. I think I'd be robbing my children of something from the background that I came from.

2:02:05If my child gets ten millions, let's say even when I die, I don't think that should happen. I agree. People say, when I talk about my sister, people are like, why don't you just give your sister a load of money? Listen, my sister works hard. She's a smart person. She works hard. She produces good work. I wouldn't live in a society where people like my sister are able to support themselves with the work that they do, but we're destroying that society. Who would pay her? The customers. This situation... You want her to be a startup business? She is a business. Yeah, and I want people like her to be, to be taxless.

2:02:39So that what I want is all nearly working people to be taxless so they have more money in their pocket. Listen, the reason we had the thriving art scene in the 60s is because we had a thriving middle class that could go and buy the new fashions and buy the new records and then that created this thriving art scene. Now we have a middle class which is struggling to pay the bills so they can't buy a stop. They, you know, my sister makes theatre shows. The only people who go to theatre are rich people now. But back in the day, you know, theatre was something that was more accessible. You want the arts, I've got to make you a fashion designer, right?

2:03:08Nowadays, there's all of the business is super fast, super cheap, super disposable fashion, or unbelievably expensive high -end, because that's the economy we've created. You go to Japan, which is a less unequal society, the restaurants are good quality restaurants for ordinary people, because a good capitalist society will produce things for the people with money. In the case of theatre, where have the theatre consumers moved to? Where are they getting their entertainment now? Well, what you have is a very rich group of people who will still go to theatre, and they will pay a lot, but then you have a large group of people who are relatively cash scarce, and they will try to get their entertainment in cheaper ways.

2:03:44Of course, you know, I mean it. That's been in their time watching your YouTube channel. Well, exactly, which is free, by the way. Yeah, but you get paid from it. You get the YouTube background. It's only in the last couple of months that I started to make any money, because I don't do my own editing. So, and you know, in the first year, is your pain yourself to do it. You know, I mean, I think people sometimes massively overestimate the amount of money. This is entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs go through two, three, four, five years worth of struggle to get to the point where they're successful. And it feels pretty horrific that you say, oh, finally, when I make it, you take it.

2:04:16And then the advisors, two entrepreneurs, just about 10 million pounds is quite a lot of money. So, you know, you can be worth nine million pounds. I'd not be paying any more. But what if I just raise one million for investment into my company? Yeah. But that then, like I do, if I'm raising money all the way along and my investors are saying, I'm sorry, I don't invest in the UK economy because it's wealth taxes and all that sort of stuff. It's anti -wealth. And then I just have to move my company overseas. Well, I want to create a situation where the UK consumer is so strong that you have to invest in the UK.

2:04:46You don't have to be here to sell to them. Quick one, I want to talk to you about our sponsor, Woop. A business I'm also an investor in, and if you follow me on Instagram, you probably noticed that recently I've picked up running, which I'm very much enjoying, and it started out as a challenge, but it's now evolved into something I do almost daily. It is one of those things that's pushing me to be better every single day, but here's the thing, to me, progress isn't just about pushing harder, it's also about training in a smarter way, which is where my Woop comes in. Weep doesn't just track my workouts, it tells me how ready my body is to take them on before I've even started the workout.

2:05:21A few years ago we ran a study called Project PR and it found that runners who adjusted their training based on their recovery scores improved their 5k times by an average of 2 minutes and 40 seconds while reducing injury risk by over 30 % and they did it while training less. So if you're looking for this type of guidance when it comes to your training, head over to join .woop .com slash CEO and get a 30 -day trial with zero commitment. That's join .woop .com slash CEO. Let me know how you get on. So do we all agree on this premise, though, that Gary's saying, which is the very ultra -rich which we can classify as being worth more than you're saying.

2:06:00We say 10 million is the line that we campaign for. Okay. We think that they should pay a greater share of the tax. And then if you agree with that premise, the question then becomes, yes, but how? Yeah, well, they already do. 1 % pay 30%. It wouldn't be clear. That's the top 1 % of taxpayers, which is not the top 1 % of richest people. Mind you, I'm also not necessarily saying what's fair. I'm saying what's practically possible. Right? So, like, you could come up with the world's most fair on a back of an app, this is what's fair, but whether you can implement it is a very difficult thing. The problem is wealth is completely mobile now.

2:06:37It's really you can live in there from anywhere. The house is done. Yeah, it's land. He's that mobile. You're going to rip the country out of the sea. There's very few. I've never met any seriously wealthy people who own a lot of houses. You honestly think that the entire housing stock of the UK is not valuable. Yeah, no it is, but it's supposed to be owned. It's 78 % is owned by baby farmers. They just don't. They've bought a house in 1992. OK, they own a house. Personally, I think that that house ownership, especially when you consider mortgages, is relatively unequally distributed. That is, by the way, the most beautiful.

2:07:10Yeah, young people have now had the commercial property, the land, the natural resources. I'm by pension funds. So your, the view is only today? No, they're owned by, if they own a pension fund, most of those commercial properties... And what is the distribution of pensions? If you have a look at those... What is the distribution of pensions? What percentage of pensions is owned by the top 1%. The, I wouldn't know, off the top of my head, with pensions. But I know that, obviously, wealth concentrates at the top. But here's the one thing, keep in mind. Wealthy group are not necessarily a static group.

2:07:36There was a study of the richest people in 1900, and most of those families are poor today, or they've gone down in value today. If the richest people in 1900 had just simply kept their wealth, they'd be 16 ,000 more billionaires, but they don't. You know, in wealth management, in banks, they have this thing called the succession planning. So succession planning is where they try and figure out how not to screw it up across generations, and they're notoriously bad at it. It's very hard to keep wealth in generations. That in the 20th century, we had two world wars in our Holocaust. That redistributed wealth.

2:08:17I would prefer not to have that again. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. I want an absolute middle class. I really do. So where's the wealth going to come from? You're going to create your own. Entrepreneurs? Entrepreneurs? Entrepreneurs? Okay. Entrepreneurs? The colonies that are friendly towards wealth creation and entrepreneurship. But what was the last time you had a government that wasn't let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go What is it with the working for the people Daniel? The problem is is that they need to step back. They need to let shrink let's Okay, I'm sure Our viewers should keep a close eye on Donald Trump and Elon Musk because they're doing what you're asking You'll be interesting to see what happens, right?

2:08:50It's too soon to tell if you were trying to grow the UK economy Would you not take America's approach because they seem to be much more successful at growing growing their economy? I mean, of course, when we talk about slashing of the state, they're going to use these examples like, oh, there's this wasteful government building. Everybody wants the slashed government waste. Of course, I'm not going to fight against slashing government waste. I'm from the UK. You know, I saw the austerity years. I've seen what's happened to local services. I've seen what's happened to things like the police, like education, especially things like youth services.

2:09:20You slash the state, you fire a load of people. What does the state... Okay, yeah, if you can get rid of state corruption, yes, 100%. If you can get rid of state waste, 100%, you know, this is asking your mom's feed their kids, Steven. You wanna stop that? No, I'm sorry. Slashing the state, I don't think it's gonna work. To be honest, I think tariffs is not an uninteresting discussion. I think, yeah, of course tax avoidance is something you need to get rid of. Really, I would like to take a step back, look at the country and say, what is the state of the country? What do people need? No, we have a country here where the housing stock is falling apart and we're letting it fall apart because those houses are owned by ordinary people who don't have any money.

2:10:06If you want the country to work for ordinary people, you need ordinary people to have money. I'm always reminded of Mr. Beast. He goes to places in Africa and he spends 500 quid and he gives a kid eyesight who had been blind with their lifestyle for 500 quid. Why are kids in Africa blind who could be given sight for 500 quid? because they don't have any money. This is what happens when you drain your middle class. This will end up like that. I've got a friend who went in the last week. He said there were people lying on the street outside with rotting limbs. That is what happens when you disempower, when you take the money away from your middle class, you've got to protect the middle class.

2:10:44If the middle class had money, then there would be unbelievable business opportunities for selling goods and services like your business to the middle class. So would you tax Daniel more? I don't know if Daniel's worth more than £10 million. It sounds like he is. Yes. I mean, I think I want to make it clear, right? You make 5 % on your world. So if Daniel's worth 100 million, he's making £5 million. We're only trying to tax a 1%. I think if you are worth 100 million, you're making £5 million passive income. You can afford to pay a million pound tax a year. You're going to still keep getting rich.

2:11:14The truth is, even if we were to tax these billionaires 1 % a year, they would still squeeze the rest out. This is not about morality. This is just a cold, hard economic analysis that I have made a lot of money betting on. So closing arguments then, Chaps. I'll start with you, Gary. Based on everything we've discussed today, what is... I'm going to ask you to give me two perspectives, which is, if I'm a young individual in this country right now, what should I do to protect myself and my family, and to feed my family? What kind of behaviour is what strategy should I drop there? But also then from a government level, I know we have some politicians that listen because they message me, what should politicians be doing to fix?

2:11:52The issue that we're all clearly identifying, which is the collapse of the middle class, the collapse of sort of working class people, and the increased wealth of the rich. I think what I would like young people to understand is that this gets worse. This gets much, much worse. It will get much worse. Relatively quickly, poverty will increase relatively quickly. It will become increasingly difficult, almost impossible to make any serious money prepare yourself for that. Prepare yourself when you can see your finances, when you can see your plans for having a family. This gets worse and it's going to be really, really hard.

2:12:27It's going to be a big mental health problem for a lot of young people. So speak to people and understand that. My YouTube videos are there, I carry economics, people who understand what's happening. After that, you've got to do all the right things. Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with you. You've got to work hard. You've got to study the right things. I think it's a great shame. We have made subjects like the arts, a thing which you're not allowed. You can't pull back on it, you cannot work in the arts. I'm sorry, you can't pay the bills, you can't. So you have to go and study AI and computing and maybe social media that we have to be on is social media doesn't pay for most people.

2:13:03You have to realize the reality of a situation. It's very, very, very bad. But that doesn't mean don't work, that doesn't mean you don't aspire. You work damn hard because you have to. But if you manage to make enough money to even support a family, you should be proud of yourself. That's the number one thing. But recognize this can be changed. This can be changed. Our grandparents, our great grandparents, fought for a bigger share of the pie and they got it. They got healthcare, they got education, they got housing, they got food. Our young people are going to have that as well, but they won't get it unless they fight for it.

2:13:37So I would encourage people to educate themselves, support my work, get involved politically, but also work hard, support your friends and family, try and make money because you'll have to. If you don't play politics, I guarantee you the other side will play politics. And that means your kids and your grandkids are living poverty, so you have to do both. With regards to politicians, now I've got mixed feelings about a lot of politicians. The truth is, I think a lot of politicians are very rich and ultimately they don't care, they're protected. A crisis of inequality looks fantastic from the top.

2:14:11And I think that's why the two of us can sit here and say things will be fine because for us they will be fine And for our kids they will be fine, but for our viewers kids they won't be fine The politicians are not going to try and save you I'm gonna try and make sure they do it, but I don't think they will This is my plan is not to get concessions from politicians My plan is to get five million followers on the internet and bully the politicians so that they have to give us what we need So I would support people to get behind me get behind my campaign, but also So understand what's happening, educate your friends and your family.

2:14:43And just crucially to understand this is going to be a long fight. So be strong, keep your people around you, but be ready for what's to come. I see hints and some of the things you've said recently of you going into politics yourself at some point. I see no in politics. But I mean, actively. I mean, I do not want to be an MP. I don't want to be a chancellor. I do not want to be prime minister. star. If we get to a point where I feel that that is something that is achieved when it is the best way to fix this problem, I will be open to it. This is not plan A. This is not plan A. You know, would you like to be prime minister?

2:15:21I'm quite comfortable with even the level of public profile that I have at the moment, which is much less than what you have, but it stresses me out. It's weird we spoke about it before we were shooting. I don't want it. Can you imagine? I don't I don't want to be prime minister, I don't want to be an MP. But I'm serious about this work that I do. And if we reach a point that I think that is the best way to do it, I will consider it. But I would much rather be able to influence the MPs from the sideline, to influence the politicians from the sidelines. And for that person, you just gave advice to who should they be voting for.

2:15:52Well, we don't have an election for... Listen, politics is not football. Politics is not football, okay? This is not about I'm labor, I'm conservative, I'm Republican, I'm Democrat. You're losing your houses, you're losing your houses, your kids will be in poverty, and you're going to see both Trump and the Republicans and Kistama and Labour who are supposed to be on the opposite side of the political spectrum, they will both fail because they will not take action on growing wealth inequality. And I'll be right on that. You know, for me back in a few years, I'll be right on that. And that shows you, it's not about, I think this factionalism is unbelievably damaging to our societies, especially in the US where there's so much hatred behind it, where suddenly I'm on this side, you're on that side.

2:16:30We're going to shake hands after this. I'm on the wrong side. Well, you know, there's no hatred here, but if you allow yourself to be divided from half of your country and you allow, we're seeing it growing tensions, racial tensions, gender tensions, if you allow yourself to be divided, they will win. They will win. So you need to vote for whoever it is going to protect your houses. And if you want to know who that is, comment check Gary's economics before the election and I will tell you who it's going to be. Daniel. Nice. Closing arguments, personal and social. A few things. I read Gary's book and it's brilliant.

2:17:02And regardless of whether you actually like economics, it's a brilliant story. It's a really, I read it in about two or three days and it'll eventually be a good movie as well. I agree with a lot of what Gary's saying. There is a collapse of the middle class and it probably will get worse. And the traditional middle class jobs that came out of the back of the industrial age, mature industrial revolution system, those are collapsing and it's globalizing. We're seeing technology move opportunities all over the world and wealth inequality, it has a cause. Wealth inequality itself is a scoreboard and there's a cause for what led up to wealth inequality and the cause in my mind is technology.

2:17:45Technology is moving near those opportunities around and it's changing things. We already have big governments. We have huge amounts of taxes where at record levels of taxes, wealth has never been more mobile. It's not about what's fair, it's about what you can practically get away with, it's about what you can actually implement. And it's going to be very, very, as Gary said, it's going to be very, very, very hard to tax people who have digital businesses, who can live and work from anywhere. I know that firsthand that it's incredibly mobile. With that said, at a macro level, sorry, at a macro level, big picture, we do know that there is a correlation between economic freedom where the government gets out of your way and low poverty rates.

2:18:27And we know that as soon as governments become big, high taxes, high regulations, it actually drops down a category and we see poverty goes up from 10 % to 30%. So triples. So constricting economic freedom is never a good idea if you look at the data. At a micro level, there's never been a greater opportunity for anyone who's ambitious just an entrepreneurial to go and start a company. It's cheap and then ever to start a company, you can do what Gary's done, which is published content, build a following, figure out how to monetize it, you can create products and services and sell them to anywhere in the world.

2:19:04You're an example of someone who started with nothing and became a millionaire in your 20s, and then again in your 30s with a completely different thing. He became a millionaire in his 20s, and then again in his 30s is the best selling author and a content creator. I did it in my 20s, my 30s, and now my 40s, starting from scratch. So it's not normal that three guys our age could have done that over and over again. It's because we are living in a time where there is incredible opportunities, but you have to be tapped into those opportunities. You never heard about it at school, you never heard about it at university.

2:19:35You're going to have to learn the skills to get tapped into those opportunities, but there are definitely ways that you can succeed in the world that we're living in. And on that macro point, who should we be voting for? Because some of you're thinking in policy suggestions through this conversation, align more with Trump, Elon, the American mission now, whether welcoming millionaires, they're trying to create a really entrepreneurship friendly environment, they're doing the doge, dismantling a sort of government waste. I agree with Gary, it's not football, you don't have a team, you swing. You should be a swing voter, you should vote every single election, you should make them work hard for your vote.

2:20:09And it's Trump gonna succeed though. You should see, it's too soon to tell. But what you mean a prediction so I'm inviting you to make a prediction. He said five years time we come back here We're gonna see that I think I think a lot of very wealthy people are gonna move move to the USA You're gonna get a lot of people from all over the world He's playing to win and he wants rich people and entrepreneurs and investors to come into the US and be based there He's creating golden visas and open visas and then success metric here is the middle class get Richard and what I what I actually think will happen as a result of all of that you will see rising living standards in the USA and you'll see a detriment to the places where those people leave.

2:20:46It's not a good thing to have the people who pay the majority of the taxes, which is 1 % of people paying 30 % of taxes. If those people leave, the bills get spread across everybody else. Well, we'll have to do a part two and we shall see. I want to thank you both for the work that you do because I'm a big fan of both of you. I watch Gary's videos all the time, helps me to understand another perspective and what I'm typically hearing out on the internet or that I hear on Twitter about what's going on in the world. And I think I really respect and admire people that can do what both of you have done today, which is to exchange and listen to ideas in the pursuit of answers.

2:21:21And that's why I highly recommend anybody, regardless of whether you agree with everything or some things or just a little bit, to go and follow Gary's channel on YouTube called Gary's Economics, because it's a great source of information from someone who has done it, from understands the world from another perspective, but also someone who's providing a narrative, which I actually think there's, we kind of talked about before you started, there's a big gap in the market for. There are a lot of people like me and Dan out on the internet that are talking about entrepreneurship and finance and how to make money, but there aren't enough people talking about wealth inequality from the perspective as Gary sees it, and that are providing more sort of collectivist and sort of society -wide solutions and answers and sort of explanations as to why that's ultimately happening.

2:22:05I do think, I do think, because I know you, Dan, I hope I know myself, I do think that we all want the UK to survive, and I think we all believe that the way that the UK survives isn't necessarily a couple of ultra -rich people getting more money. It is sort of social mobility and it's allowing people that are at the very bottom to create opportunities and to succeed. We all agree upon that, even if we agree, disagree, sorry, on the causes and the solutions to that. I'd also highly recommend everybody to go check out the training game because everybody's talking about this book and I think it's what, four weeks at the moment on the Sunday time list.

2:22:41Number one. Number one. Number one. Four weeks number one. Which is an incredible achievement, but it speaks to what's in this book, the way that the story is told, but also the timeliness of this message. So I'd highly recommend everybody go check it out. I'm going to put a link below so that everybody can go and do it. And if you just look at some of the testimonials for this book, it's profound. I hear people describe it as like, unforgettable on one end and then sad on the other end, because that's the nature of the reality it speaks to. And I highly recommend everybody to go check out Daniel Priestley's Entrepreneur Revolution, but also your website has all of your resources and tools on it.

2:23:13So I'll link that on the screen. What's the... Ad Daniel Priestley .com. Ad Daniel Priestley .com. Thank you both for your generosity. Really, we appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks for bringing us together. No matter where I am in the world, it seems like everyone is drinking matcha. And there's a good chance that that matcha you're drinking is made by a company that I've invested more than seven figures in, who are a sponsor of this podcast called Perfect Ted. Because they're the brand used globally by cafes like Blank Street Coffee, and Joe and the Juice, and many, many more. Not only can you get Perfect Ted Match in cafes, but you can now also make it at home.

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2:24:19You can get 40 % off your first order using Codari 40. I find it incredibly fascinating that when we look at the back end of Spotify and Apple and our audio channels, the majority of people that watch this podcast haven't yet hit the follow button or the subscribe button wherever you're listening to this. I would like to make a deal with you. If you could do me a huge favor and hit that subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from now until forever to make the show better and better and better and better. I can't tell you how much it helps when you hit that subscribe button. The show gets bigger which means we can expand the production, bring in all the guests you want to see and continue to do in this thing we love.

2:24:55If you could do me that small favor and hit the follow button, whatever you're listening to this, that would mean the world to me. That is the only favour I will ever ask you. Thank you so much for your time.