Cancel Your Fear of Dying: How to Live Fully by Facing Death | Elena Brower

28:24Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:think if individuals have a lot of trauma and grief in their life that they meet death differently? I don't know. I wonder about that. I certainly saw my mom's eyes, like I mentioned prior. I actually stood up over her bed and I flipped open her eyelids for a moment before she passed. I just wanted to see her eyes one more time. She had the prettiest brown eyes. and she was just afraid like I said they just look so scared and I just wanted to do something about it we can't why is she not at peace with letting go of this body and I just whispered into her ear we're all going to be fine we are all taken care of your grand boys your girls we're good everybody's going to be okay come closer to it let go don't be afraid and she died shortly thereafter.

29:16Who's to say that my words helped? I don't know. I hope they did. Do you feel that you know less, not more as you've seen this? Yes. Yes. That's the craziest part. I don't, I sit still for so many hours of the week, honestly, at least seven hours of the week. I'm sitting very still and I don't know more. It's not about getting more information or knowing more. It's just about being more comfortable with all of these very uncomfortable concepts. Even think about how you and I know each other. How did we get here? We were both willing to be very uncomfortable and get past it because we could see that there was somebody across the way who was actually going to be with us for life.

29:58How did we figure that out? We were both listening very well. I'm convinced of that. And that's what sitting still gives me. It doesn't give me information or knowledge. It gives me good listening, patience, and the care that I can be present with somebody when I don't feel comfortable.

30:17Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:And that's through Zazen. Yes, that's the word for Zen meditation. Zazen. Zazen. Zen meditation. How is Zen meditation different than transcendental meditation or other various modalities of stillness? so tm vedic meditation lots of other kinds of meditation they require the use of a mantra or mudra which is like a hand placement all of that is wonderful and all of it has been a part of my formation all of it there's no better or worse here there's no hierarchy the reason why i personally love zazen is because there's nothing there they're just sitting the word for it is actually just sitting shikantaza in japanese and just sitting means literally just coming closer and closer to the way in which my mind works and seeing how absolutely funny and terrified it's been and how easy it is to just let go of what drops let go of what drops everything is so ephemeral my mind is dropping another thought i'm gonna drop it too my mind is dropping another thought I'm going to drop that one too until there's nothing there.

31:30And then I get up from that seat, 40 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever it is. I am a slower, calmer being. I am an island of coherence to the people around me. You can't shake me for hours after that. I'm unshakable. You know, and you've taught me how to be physically strong, you know, how to really prioritize muscle. I have muscle now. That is just the best thing ever. Physiologically, structurally, everything. I feel so good. This is that for my mind.

32:02Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I would argue also that you've always been very strong and that you have sought to put yourself into deeply uncomfortable places to have this unshakable presence. You write in Whole Nothing that Zazen meditation allows the body to disappear into the practice. We live in a world that is faster paced than it was 10 years ago. It's only accelerating. How would we even begin to embody this kind of stillness so that one could metabolize trauma or grief? I think the first thing I want to say is, in addition, as sort of an adjunct to that question, we also live in a world where visibility is very important.

32:48It's everything.

32:49Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Here we are. Lights are on. Books are out. My book is not out, but your book is out. Where is your book? My book is coming out soon. We have a few months left. The sitting and the dropping of the thoughts, the personality, all of the sort of configurations of the mind, the disappearing that I write about, that is so I can be present for you, for your kids. why do those kids love me as much as they do? Because I'm right there. You smell good. You're funny. Do they talk about how I smell? I mean, come on. That's so cute. This episode is brought to you by something sweet. And it's not me. It's Manicora.

33:28Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Let's talk carbs. Specifically, honey. And no, it's not another nickname for my husband. I usually call him something else. People have this idea that carbs are bad. And that is simply not true. I use Manicora honey daily. Well-positioned carbs like Manicora honey, They have been amazing for my personal training. I think of Manuka honey, which is what it is, is a functional carbohydrate, not just a sugar. It's serving a purpose. It's not just adding empty carbs. Honestly, we use it anytime we need a natural sweeteners. The bees collect the nectar from the Manuka tea tree in New Zealand. It's very complicated.

34:02Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:The nectar is then packed with bioactive ingredients and the honey that is produced has three times more antioxidants than your average honey. If you are looking for good honey and you are looking for something sweet, you can check out their website to learn more. Head to manicora.com slash drlion for$25 off your starter kit. The disappearance is really so that everything else can happen. And I don't need to be there. I can just be present for what is happening. I'm not trying to, you know, do more or be more or be more visible. I'm just trying to be present. God, it's so hard. It's so hard. And think about it.

34:45Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Because for exactly the reason that you said, we live in a world where visibility, if we want to speak and share, you will go to hospice and there are five beds. We will talk and you will help millions of people. I know. Even have a whisper thinking about dying well it is not an if it is a when and again just very personal to me these are things i reach out to about all the time because on one side we have joy and i think that we all feel so privileged to have each other and our families and there is a level of, for me, and I hope that I'm speaking to you out there who is listening, a level of vulnerability, of complete and total loss of everything that you hold dear.

35:41Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I love my parents so much. I love my best friend, Don Lehman. And I also know that there will be a moment we will not be together. How good are you? To finish the last question, how good are you? how practiced are you at letting this go letting them go not at all i that's yeah that's the that's the whole charge that's the task at hand that is it and and i will say to finish that thought the sitting still when i'm grieving especially after i heard about that 15 year old kid i can't even i sat for an hour that morning the next morning after hearing it i barely slept that night. I just couldn't get over it.

36:26Me, I'm like all hospice. I'm, you know, but when something sudden like that happens and it's out of order like that, and it's the kid dying before the parents, wow, it just really throws you for a loop. But I sat for that hour and I suddenly felt, okay, okay, I'm back. And I could feel the waves of grief. The waves moved through me. They're so palpable now. and slowly I was able to move that sadness through my system because I was sitting still it's the craziest truth and it's really boring and it's not bright lights and it's not visibility and it's not a personality it's the opposite it's the disappearance that you just cited we have to disappear in order to be able to metabolize and then once we've metabolized these things little by little years we can really serve other people in helping them get through

37:24Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:a challenging time where is the balance between the personality and the ego of being driven there's a drive of contribution right it sounds to me that there are layers to this there's being driven to contribute but then also just being is the word steady and present to be contributing how do we intertwine those two things i like the word steady a lot i use it a lot perhaps too often but yeah i have to be very careful when i walk into that hospice that it's not about me i have to be very careful when i'm talking to my kid it's not about me or my agenda i am here to serve your unfolding i am here to serve the unfolding of this person who's in in the death process.

38:13I'm not here to like be perfect and make it nice and help. Nothing is broken. I'm just here to presence. And it keeps coming back to that because that's the only truth. It's not exciting. That's the funny part. You know, I wish we had some like big, wow, this is the, this is the teaching. It's like, no, actually the teaching is how present can I be for you when you're having a hard time when you text me and you say i don't understand this i can't rub my head around this how present can i be for you what practices have i uh done or or tried that have helped me how can i share that with you without foisting an agenda on you you know that's how that's friendship that's you know and there are tactics there are practices that do help roshi jones has taught me about grace this is an acronym that she uses that she's taught to clinicians and doctors and people in the social engagement field of any kind.

39:17G gather your attention. R recall your intention. I can do this now in just a moment like this when I walk into a room. Okay I'm gathering my attention I'm recalling my intention the A is attuning to myself. Okay how am I doing? Can I attune to the other people in the room? How's everybody else doing? C, can I consider what will serve? What will actually serve right now? And mostly it's going back to the very boring, but very real. I can presence these people. And E, engaging and ending. Like, sure, that's something we can cite here. It's lovely. It really does help me. But there's nothing like super exciting about any of this.

40:01It's just how present can we be for each other at the end of life we're all going in that direction so weird it's weird it's i um i hope

40:10Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:that i am doing a service to those that person listening because there are a million health conversations that we can have oh my god so many and you've helped me have so many and i feel so good at 55 years old they feel amazing because of you we've been doing this for eight years 10 years together there is this practice of grasping i i see this biohacking space this how are we going to live in our body well how are we going to be jacked yes it matters james how uh do we think about our brains and our experiences and ultimately my wish for people which it really isn't even my business to wish for people but I believe that they can be strong both mentally and physically and they should be able to choose and when I think about your book hold nothing and we we talk about death because again selfishly it's the thing I'm most afraid of But it could be anything.

41:22Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:It could be the relationship that you're grasping. It could be the stage you want to speak on, the job that you want. The friendship that is no longer working. any of those items it could be any of those things and what i am struggling with internally is i is i just talk about this and just try to share as openly as i can is that i believe and and many people want to do this thing shame my husband he's in his third year of surgical residency after being crazy decorated seal seal with multiple war deployments and a medic yet here he is pushing and i mean we're talking 100 hour week yeah easily right fell asleep comes home on a tuesday night at 1 30 i go into the the kitchen he's sleeping there with pizza he was busted busted with a pizza but there is there is a drive and if we are to hold nothing and if we are to be deeply comfortable with life and sitting allows us to drop our personality our identity how do we configure the two to fulfill as i would when i you know talk to james our dharma or our whatever it is that vision for us how how do we combine the two how do we do that this i do not know because everyone is different i know that i'm trying my best to grasp less as women, especially if you're a woman listening, you know, to stop trying to hold everything and everyone together and know that everything and everyone, they're on their own road, on their own journey, in their own process.

43:16At a certain point, we get somewhere in our 50s, I guess, maybe even 40s, where we can let go of more and not grasp so tightly on the things that are no longer important.

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44:13Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:If you've never tried red light therapy, this is the time to do it. They have some of the best devices that I've ever seen. Great for skin, mitochondrial health, and overall resilience. If you care about your skin, if you care about your sleep, if you care about your body and want to try something new, check out bondcharge.com slash Dr. Lion. Use the code Dr. Lion to get 15 % off your entire order. Simple, proven, designed to support your biology. We hold a lot of shame. We hold a lot of grief. We hold a lot of blame. We hold a lot of rancor. As I mentioned, we hold a lot of grudges. Those are the things that we can practice with first, in my humble opinion.

44:59That's what I'm practicing with. All the shame of all the mistakes that I continue to make, all of the grudges that I have ever held against anyone who has ever done me wrong, all those things are a good place to begin. Are you a grudge holder? I don't think so. You know, there are a couple of things that I'm just like, how could that person actually do that? How could they actually think that about me? And then I have to let that go too. Wow. How quickly can I let go of that thought, that mistake?

45:30Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I would say at lightning speed, James is, am I correct? She is the, we have James in studio here. But it's a practice, dude. I have known you 10 years, almost 10 years. Longer, let's see. Longer, 2013. 2013 right you have not picked up lightning speed any faster because when i met you you were at lightning speed i've been really working on it lightning speed of letting go and not holding on to again two types of learning i don't know how often we learn when people tell us you you never tell me things you say perhaps what is your roundabout way you you know what I'm talking about. I can't even put it into.

46:15It's an invitation.

46:15Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:It's not a telling. It's not advice. It's an invitation or a question. Maybe. What do you think about this? Perhaps you can consider this. Or it's a Jimmy, do we have a roundabout way that she offers a solution? And why do I bring this up? Because there are things that perhaps come very natural to some people and then some things that are just very cultivated and this letting go and emptying of your identity but yet you've been tremendously successful yeah I don't know and creative what does success even mean at this juncture I don't know I'm just trying to figure that one out too I'm redefining like speaking of letting go I'm redefining what success is actually the entire construct is crumbling before my very eyes, I feel.

47:05And now it's up to me to create what I want. And I think what I want is a life of service, of friendship, of being an excellent partner and being a great mother. And as one teacher once said to me, and efficiently using what I have, I don't think I've been entirely efficient. I think that I've been very forgiving and I'm becoming more and more intimate with the contents of my mind. But I'm really, I'm eager to see what happens over these coming years when I could just shed a few more things. One of my teachers talks about illuminating and shedding. That's kind of the process of sitting. And I'm doing that in my partnership.

47:50I'm doing that in my friendships. Illuminate what is happening and then shed what

47:56Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:is not needed you have a page and a chapter here really this emptying of self-doubt dang went right there i just i have to go in because you might not take this personally but you are extraordinary and your writing and your transmission is extraordinary and i feel so honored and so fortunate to have walked all of these years with you. It is a surprising and unusual friendship. To say the very least. To say the very least, and yet all makes perfect sense. I think what we share is kind of a panoramic acceptance. It's such a great word. It's just so broad. It holds everything. It doesn't need to, it doesn't need, there's no judgment, there's no fear.

48:54There's just this full level of acceptance. And that acceptance, and I dare say the acceptance of our own mortality, impermanence, that of everyone we love, it brings a certain caliber of vibrancy to things. The colors are bright, you know, the connections are real. There's no veil. I think that's everything that's what holding up to me that's what holding nothing really means

49:22Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:in order to hold nothing you obviously have to let go of everything yes self-doubt you do mentor people I don't know if you still mentor I do I do I do I love it actually there are I would imagine just like as a physician a handful of curated items that may be less than ideal for an individual to carry. Right. One would certainly be self-doubt. Yeah. I would love your experience with it or how one would get rid of it or why even have it. Is it useful? The sea in which we're swimming that would give rise to such a thing as self-doubt, the sea in which we're swimming is kind of internalized and dare I say patriarchal environment.

50:16That's just what's true. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying that's what's true.

50:20Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:What does that mean exactly? Meaning it's hard for all of us, both men and women, to let go of the winning and losing paradigm. It's very difficult. I know. Winning or losing. If we could let go of that binary, the whole world would feel different. Everything would change. There would be no war. There would certainly be no lines in the sand. And I know this is a much bigger conversation, but that's what I mean by internalized patriarchy. I think there's a lot of winning and losing happening. And that keeps us from actually doing what we're meant to be doing, which is connecting and caring. I was going to ask you, do we know what we are meant to be doing?

50:58Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Connecting and caring for people. And I was thinking, write a book, produce the best podcast. This is your way of connecting and caring. those are just the surface modalities that you've discovered and are fluent and boy proficient in but really i know you i know you a long time you're trying to connect and care for people you you've started in geriatrics who does that who does that not on purpose but still your your little path led you right there to the elders first thing first thing do you remember I was not ready. I know. I am still not ready for it. I know. But as a core fundamental belief, you remember when it was winter.

51:44Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Yes. And I, myself and Kara, let's ask us. It was a tough winter. Wearing, I don't know, she was probably wearing 80 pounds and I was wearing my backpack with 40 pounds and we are walking 10 miles up and down New York City. Yeah, yeah. We walk from back and forth. Incidentally, last week, my 16-pound weight vest was delivered to my house. I'll be starting to hike with that soon. Very excited about this. Yes, I remember. I say this for this idea of utility. Yeah. James and I were talking about this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson, that the purpose of life isn't to be joyful, which that might be a mistake, but it is to be useful.

52:32Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:That might also be a mistake. It might not be utility in hold nothing. I just want to read this line because I love it. Life presents us with endless choices to doubt that we're capable enough, wise enough, or creative enough, or release that doubt and learn to trust ourselves implicitly. We are living in a world of too much visibility, too much information, and constant comparison. It's crazy. I just want to know how we navigate it and should we hold nothing and we let go of self-doubt and numerous other items, then what? So the doubt usually is the result of some kind of coping mechanism or something that we heard when we were very small.

53:27We have not forgotten it. Even if our brains have forgotten what was said or done, our bodies haven't. it's somatic grief it still lives letting go of that is the practice I mean for me it was sitting still that that's what worked for me and some combination I will be honest of that and this weight training that you had me doing at first very reluctantly I might add when I met you I'm

53:52Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:pretty sure you were I won't even say let's just say just say it deeply plant-based deeply plant-based which I was okay with. Yeah, no, it's fine. Although your blood sugar was just continuously, you know, just creeping up towards where we didn't want it. No, it's much better. It's much, I mean, look at you. Yeah, much better. But I will say this, the letting go of doubt is so much about sitting still, watching the tendency of our mind and teaching ourselves to release as swiftly as possible the thoughts that perpetually arise. If we do that, how do we choose the next right thought? There is no choosing.

54:40The mind will continue to secrete thoughts. Ah, thank goodness. The practice is to keep letting go. And after some years of this, at least in my experience, it was two or three years of this very assiduous practice. I know it's annoying. That's just...

54:53Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I know, I know. I'll tell you when I start. you you'll start when your kids are older perhaps but after those two or three years now in real life in real time right now as i'm sitting here looking into your pretty green eyes i can actually hit on a doubtful thought i can see it and drop it so the next thought that might arise might be something very supportive and helpful and that's that will be my next offering usually the best offering is nothing at all. Unless I'm being asked a question, I will not speak now because I've seen what my mind does and there's no point to it. Just let everything be.

55:34No wonder you're

55:34Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:more quiet when I call you. But everything's happening of its own volition. Everything is happening. You know, I always just wonder, how do newborns get so much energy? They wake up, they cry, they go to the bathroom. Well, they get something that we don't. They get colostrum, the OG energy shot. And I'll tell you what, I'm always looking for ways to improve my energy and gut health since that's where good health starts. And that's why I've added Amra colostrum to my iced coffee. Amra is a whole food supplement packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients, things like prebiotics, peptides that help strengthen immunity, support digestion, optimized performance in case you want another newborn, AMRA uses a unique technology to preserve these nutrients in their purest, most bioavailable form, which is why it stands out from nearly everything else that I've seen on the market.

56:27Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:We have a special offer just for my audience. You can get 15 % off your first order. Go to tryamra, that's T-R-Y-A-R-M-R-A dot com slash Dr. Lion and use the code Dr. Lion at checkout. Intergenerational healing. As you do this work, as you drop more doubt, more patterns, more personality, please share with me this thought and concept of intergenerational healing. Such an interesting one. We are looking at seven generations back, seven generations ahead. we do some work for ourselves we begin to befriend our mind we begin to get really good at illuminating and shedding ideas doubts fears whatever the case and because I'm doing it I can see that my son somehow I have no idea how is more confident moving through the world and there were these inflection points over time where I would get clear on some aspect of my own doubt or fear, and I would see it play out in him.

57:43Tell me. I don't know. I can't really say. I wish I knew how. There's probably a million experts that you can have on this podcast that will tell you how structurally, cellularly, what happens in the mother happens in the child, even when the child is no longer the mother's belly. I'm sure that's true. But I'm watching it play out in real time. when I do my work my kid somehow gets a little closer to himself and a little closer to me there's a certain level of intimacy that I'm having within myself fearlessness within myself that I see in him I don't know how to explain it I wish I could I wish I could be more articulate I don't know how to explain it but I could see it and feel it and when he's older I think he'll be able to speak to this like he will have seen me I was very open about getting sober it was in 2013 14 14 October I I was there I remember and I was very open with him about it and I wrote this really beautiful spoken word called ritual of recovery and he was there as I would practice it he was there listening to it I would practice it in all these different locations to really try and memorize it for myself and to offer it to people.

58:57And he would say that something changed within him when that happened. And I would concur. He was a different guy after that. And so was I. I don't know. I wish I knew. But I do know this for sure. I was unwilling. I shied away from my grandmother's death. I did too. She was dying. I was on vacation with a boyfriend and his family and I was like, I'm not going. How ridiculous is that? I regret this so deeply. Grandma Bell, she was amazing. I wrote about her in the book. And she loved me so much. I can't imagine why I would have missed it. so I will never shy away from death again and the way that I was able to approach my mother's death was very very different and that is a healing of a sort that is intergenerational so you're picking up on something that I think is important on a personal level that your listener the reader of this book will find ways to to to detect it in their experience it's one of the things that happens naturally.

1:00:00We don't have to really try. If I heal something within myself, the generations behind me, the ones that went through World War II, the ones that are coming after me, Jonah, if he ever has kids and his and theirs, everybody heals.

1:00:16Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:What we are going to do, actually, because I do have five copies, I'm sure I will buy at least five more. I would love to offer, if you are listening we've never done this on the podcast but if you are listening and you write a review for this episode i will send out i'm not going to give you all my copies i will send out three of the five copies that i have and i will have them signed by you again if you are listening to this episode please write a review i will pick the top three reviews yeah and um send them out a copy. I think this book is so important. And it talks about, again, your writing is extraordinary.

1:01:04Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:You know, I, as I've watched you grow up, we've both grown up in parts together. Yes. I always ask how, and I asked James this too, how is she just so good at things? How is she just so good at, and James is laughing because we, you know, I have a team of, you know, 13 to 20 people and uh honestly Elena could probably do all the jobs all at once uh Matt maybe not your job but uh I couldn't do his job but how does someone become and again there's no ego to you it how does someone become so capable and is it because you continue to open up to your true self. One of the teachers in the lineage that I practice, Shunryu Suzuki, his sort of right hand for many, many years was a teacher by the name of Katagiri Roshi.

1:01:56Katagiri came up with this term, settling the self on the self. And I think even though I've probably had all these capacities all along, and I remember several jobs along the way before I became a yoga teacher doing many different wearing all the hats in the room but i think since i started sitting meditation i'm just able to be aware of what is needed around me because i've been settling the self on the self and so i have this five very direct um intimate experience of myself and you know i can look at the copy for your website and be like hey gee let's work on this and work on it and in an hour it's done because I'm also the customer so it's easy for me but I can do almost anyone's job

1:02:45Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:you know and is it just from a level of clarity because there's not this self-doubt noise ego or no I'm I really am so interested in serving in whatever way that I can and this just happens to be like what happens sometimes between you and me but we have taken care of each other for a long time it but it but it's very natural and I think it's only because you in your field have a level of presence and like rigor yes and in my work I have a level of presence and that's what I can bring and that yields a certain kind of rigor and attention and care for things I think that's all you're picking up on.

1:03:28It's not a certain like, oh, she's so smart, talented, whatever. It's just that I'm present.

1:03:33Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I would argue it's smart and all of those things. We could all argue about that. But there is what I'm also getting at is there's a level of clarity that allows you to execute swiftly that it might take someone three months to do. And this is really an example for the listener at home. It is an example of what I believe is possible when you can recalibrate your mind. I am not there. I see it in you. I see it in Shane. There's a level of silence that allows for, in my mind, execution, which is kind of the very opposite of what you're doing. It's you're just doing the next right thing, the next moment, the next step.

1:04:15Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:There's a level of ease that, again, how do we live well? And how do we live true? And how do we live effectively? Part of that is I think a lot of us spend a long time doubting and running from things. Maybe that's something natural in your 20s. But perhaps that could end now. Yeah, that could end now. Just in a moment. Suzuki also said we're all like clocks. We're really wound up, but we have no idea what time it is. and there's let's say your listener is a parent you have many yeah many parents for sure let's say is a partner or somebody working in a certain situation that's really challenging right now any challenge that we have we sit and we can begin to feel a sense of groundedness and a whole bunch of thoughts that don't pertain will definitely emerge from this very productive mind and then some really good ideas will emerge but we have to be quiet enough and still enough to know to drop all of them it's you know it's like sand settling in a glass or something know to drop all of them so that you can be very discerning as to which one you're going to pick up on later it's not something cognitive either i'll walk out of a meditation that'll be an hour.

1:05:39Sometimes I'll go and spend a whole month at Upaya Zen Center or, you know, I imagine I'll be at other places too at some point thus far at Upaya. And I'll sit for a month. And in that month, it'll be five to eight hours a day of sitting. But by the end of that month, I have so many good ideas. I have good ideas for you. I have good ideas for me. I have good ideas for James. I that add to the groundedness and the efficiency there's another teacher by the name of Katherine Thanis who invites us to in her writing and speaking she is long gone to be this moment not be in this moment or of this moment or with this moment but to be this moment so if you're a parent and your kids are losing it yep happens every day how can you be this moment and you'll be standing in the kitchen it will be a totally zoo around you and you can put your hands on the counter i'm just going to be this moment and then instead of shouting maybe maybe you'll whisper or instead of having a big reaction instead you'll actually sit down and your kids will be like what is home what is going on right now and the parent is sitting down and everything sort of ratchets down three levels and something actually that needs to happen can actually happen who's to say what the right reaction is but at least you can start to feel a connection to what will serve in that moment

1:07:17Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:when you could be that moment it's very profound and very efficient which i love and it speaks to almost a spiritual discipline perhaps perhaps for sure you describe silence as this kind of prayer and listening as the most powerful form of action can you speak to that did you ever as a kid and I think I know the answer to this but I'm actually really curious did you ever as a kid have somebody who really listened to you oh yeah can you name that person my grandma hmm what's her name marcella marcella yeah what have i never heard her name marcy yeah marcy whose mom um my dad okay that explains everything yeah she was rad she was rad and she listened to you like crazy like crazy just sit there hands on her chin and be super interested oh into it what a blessing i i found some letters that i wrote her from camp Oh God.

1:08:20Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:And it was, hey the oranges are here with these apples are kind of soggy. You know. She sent you Harry's fruits. Yeah, and then the message back like that's so amazing. I mean just this so beautifully written response to my damaged fruit letter that I had written. That woman loved you so much. So much. So that kind of listening is a gift to the whole world because look she gave you that kind of listening which lent you somewhere in your cellular tendrils of your body a certain confidence that you were okay you should be heard that little confident little thread of confidence has now the two of us sitting here the way in which we know each other is bonkers that we love each other so deeply is bonkers.

1:09:15And you have a significant impact on the lives of the people you're serving. You've had a significant impact on my life. Why? I would deign to say many, many reasons, but one of the earliest ones is Grandma Marcy listening well to you. It says a lot. And who, you know, if you're listening to us or watching, who has listened to you and how can you emulate them in the service of all humanity? And don't be thinking that that's some sort of big idea. It's actually true. If I listen to, I don't know, a driver or somebody helping me at a restaurant or something,

1:09:56Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:if I'm listening well, they have a better day. And then their kid has a better day. Their partner has a better day. These little tiny things. But Grandma Marcy, she's part of the reason why you're so successful. you know successful and that was air quotes for those of you who are just listening yeah it makes a lot of sense because the way that we can then show up for others certainly perpetuates not only one individual life but then a ripple effect and potentially intergenerational healing there are a few last questions and this is something that when I think about being clear and discernment you describe boundary setting with some boundary setting with someone you love as an act of love yes you describe boundary setting with someone you love boundaries as an act of love how do you discern who and when to remain in someone's life versus love them from afar and close that chapter?

1:11:02This is a very important question. I want to take it, you know, with sort of kid gloves. It's very case specific. But I know that you and I have been walking this road together for a long time. Thank you, Anthony Lyon. Story at the end. Story at the end. So you guys have to stay tuned for the story at the end.

1:11:23Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I wanted to take a moment to let you know about something new we've created. It's called Forever Strong Insider. And and it's the premium subscription to The Dr. Gabrielle Lyons Show. As a Forever Strong insider, every week you'll get ad-free episodes, written summaries with key takeaways to help you retain the most important insights from the show. A community Q &A segment where you can submit your own questions for upcoming guests. We're going to call this The Strong Seed. And behind-the-scenes content, a closer look at how I prepare, train, travel, and navigate daily life. go to foreverstrong.supercast.com.

1:12:02Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Let's keep getting stronger together. There are and have been certain situations in my life where somebody comes into it and I can see very swiftly that this story does not belong to me. It's very hard to discern that. Before I was sitting regularly, it was very hard to discern that since I started sitting, I can very swiftly see, okay, this is not mine to hold. And I'm going to let it go quickly without fanfare, without any sort of, nothing else is happening. I'm just going to quickly exit the situation. It's to call it Taoist, call it, you know, sort of martial art where you sort of move out of the way of the moving vehicle, out of the way of the moving limb, whatever it is.

1:12:55I'm just moving out of the way. I'm not engaging with this situation even a little bit. I've had a couple of clients in the recent years where, you know, there's some sort of very obviously narcissistic partner. And I just advise if they're asking, not if they're not asking, I advise to block, delete, release, forgive, move on, no contact. That person will ultimately find some other venue to express their illness. In those cases, in any case where I detect a sense that it's not actually about me, I will as swiftly as possible remove myself from the situation and I won't talk about it.

1:13:40Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:You don't. That is one thing that I have learned. I will bring something to you um again as a confidant as someone who i i trust deeply as my family i will lay a situation at your doorstep to ask you advice and you'll say no this person is is wash your hands of them and no need but as i sit to rationalize well maybe it is i that i'm being unreasonable you are very clear and secondarily there's no shame no there is not i feel so guilty am i going to hurt this person's feelings it is thank you and move on moving on the best thing we can do very very often is not to engage not to try and you know make it right or make it easier or somehow perpetuate the situation.

1:14:38Just release and move on, let go. It's really hard to do. If you're listening and you're struggling with this, some sort of situation like this, just don't do anything for some time and see what happens without your process insinuated on the larger process. See what happens. The thing might resolve by itself. But oftentimes if I don't do anything at all, suddenly everything is better.

1:15:10Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I like that. Doing a little bit less. Yeah. There are two more items on our list, perhaps three. And one of them, which I have not been attuned to in the past. And this is a, what you call a literal altar. An altar in your home. And what does it mean to have an altar in the heart? And how do we live? What does it even mean? How are we thinking about that? So many of us have very small spaces. And we are looking for some meaning in the things that we do and the people with whom we surround ourselves. An altar is a place where you can actually set your eyes and see something that has meaning to you.

1:15:57Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Ah, all of those items and those paintings. that would not be one that I have of yours in my home purposely placed in very particular locations. The little vase that you pulled out yesterday that I gave you so many years ago that whole shelf is sort of an altar it's in in her bedroom um what else were you showing me the little cards the little jewelry even weirdly when I walked into your closet and I saw that bag that I've given you those many years ago. Yes. That's hanging there. That too is like a little bit of an altar. It's our friendship. You know, there's something about it. You walk by it, there's like a little heartwarming, a little burst.

1:16:39Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:Those items are strategically placed so that I can see them. And I would say I did that consciously. Is there a benefit? Could someone create a tiny little space? What is someone trying to anchor? I encourage this all the time. In fact, this is one of the things that I want to teach as the book comes out. I'm going to offer this. I have to design it, but I know I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do. Can you find one small shelf in your house, dear listener or viewer, where you can place a few of the items that remind you of who you are? Maybe it's a little picture of yourself as a child. Maybe it's a little piece of jewelry of your grandmother's.

1:17:22Maybe it's some photograph of somebody you love. Maybe it's a quote that you ripped out from some magazine so long ago and you have it sitting in a notebook, but you'd love to look at it every day. That's an altar. And you can make that altar as a physical space in your house. You can also make an altar in your little heart. So every time I sit, the first thing I do when I sit down, I exhale, I sort of gather my attention as my teacher has taught me to do, Roshi Joan, and then I let everything settle. I take a few breaths like that. And then there's some kind of like anchor for today. I'm going to anchor my sadness there.

1:18:00That's what it was yesterday when I was thinking about this child who died. I'm going to anchor my trust because I feel so afraid right now, whatever it is. And once that anchor is placed, I let it go. That anchor is at the altar of my heart. I have another friend Tracy Stanley a really well-known teacher respected teacher who has two books one is called Radiant Rest and the other is called The Luminous Self I've read that great yes Tracy would be she's just one of my dearest teachers and friends tea sister also and she teaches a whole yoga nidra where you're traveling basically to a location that you're envisioning as you're traveling there during the nidra and you're landing at this altar sort of a hearth as it were what are you placing there that's the altar of your heart so there are many ways to go about this but it's nice to have these kinds of intimate moments with yourself where you and you are the only thing that is needed nothing else is needed nobody else is needed you don't need a piece of special something to you know or object nothing you can just place your attention in your heart anchor what you need and then drop it it's beautiful yeah it's beautiful this is a heavy one okay you're ready for it i think i'm ready for it what would you say to someone who is afraid of dying

1:19:36not much i would just ask them how they are i would ask a lot of questions i would be very curious to hear how they're doing today and what's happening in their heart what's happening in their mind who's been here to visit and i would let them kind of drive the train um if they asked me, I'm so afraid to die, I don't know how to think about this, I would say, why don't we just sit quietly together for a few moments, and any thought that you have that arises seemingly from somewhere in your consciousness, what if we were to just practice letting that thought gently drop? Let's see how that goes.

1:20:18That's probably all I would say. And then they would make some discoveries for themselves, and then we would go from there. But there is no advice for that. There's experience. There's a practice. You know, there's just a comforting presence that I can offer. Maybe even take the comforting out because that's extra. Maybe I can just bring presence, question mark.

1:20:43Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:I mean, again, we know each other so well, and I want to let everything land and breathe and have its space rather than filling it up with a lot of words, which is probably shocking to my friends and family also sitting over there. You know, I think I'm very funny. I'm the only one that thinks I'm funny, which is why I add in the humor to deflect any way in which I may be feeling, which is intense gratitude for you. Quick story. elena brower and i know each other because we both married tony lyon uh shout out to tony probably doesn't listen to the podcast but we are all very very dear friends at this point all of us which is so unusual and when we were getting married this is many years ago obviously i'm married now to shane with my two little minions um who we love who we desperately love who and at the time um you wanted to come to the wedding and needless to say i was not keen on inviting my future husband my fiance's ex-wife to the wedding cute jimmy's giggle and yeah and you and jonah and james have been the biggest blessing we married and uh i don't know how to say this kindly um decided not to stay in the divorce the same person and he's amazing amazing human amazing human we love him and his family like his family is still my family incredible for sure but it would make for an unlikely friendship which also makes perfect sense we could both recognize in each other something that was timeless timeless and we both put in efforts we've all put in efforts james and tony are really close i mean they talk it's really sweet they say i love you at the end of the conversation, like Jonah and his friends, like it's real.

1:23:12But we've put in an effort, and I don't know what relevance this has for your listener, your viewer, but efforts matter. In the absence of mental illness, efforts count. You know, there's mental illness there. It's very difficult, I understand. But in this particular case, we both put in some time and work and care. We both care very deeply. Very much. and that goes a really long way just uh just wow it's just silly it's silly and amazing and

1:23:44Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:that we have all these narratives and these constructs about how relationships and friendships form is such a unusual one the way that it started and the way that it has continued for well over a decade yeah i want to close this out before you offer us a beautiful a meditation and that is one more time the five remembrances let's do it i am of the nature to grow old there is no way to escape growing old i am of the nature to have ill health there is no way to escape having ill health. I am of nature to die. There is no way to escape death. All that is dear to me and everyone I love are of the nature to change.

1:24:38Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:There is no way to escape being separated from them. My actions are my own true belongings. My actions are the ground upon which I stand.

1:24:56Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:If you would honor us in a moment of meditation, thank you again for being here, not just in this moment, but in all of the moments. It has mattered so deeply to me and my family. I love your family so much. I love those babies. That video that you took yesterday of Aries jumping into my arms, How often does that happen in this life? It's a blessing. Wow. We are blessed, and this is quite a gift. Yes, it is. I love you so much. I love you too. All right, let's sit together. So if you're listening or watching, go ahead and make yourself comfortable in your seat. Find a way to place both feet on the floor.

1:25:43If you're on a chair, if you're sitting on a cushion maybe, just move to the edge so that your spine is nice and straight. And as you grow your spine tall, feel like you're reaching the crown of your head skyward. And then allow yourself to feel feet or seat or both grounded. And take a few deep breaths here, really gathering your attention on the inhalation. Allow your inhalation to be this kind of retrieval of parts of yourself, perhaps, that you've scattered about your home or your day. and allow the exhalation to be a very certain settling of your energy, of what you're collecting and retrieving.

1:26:37And we'll take two to three more breaths like that, gathering and centering, grounding.

1:26:49And gently become aware, as we've talked about during this conversation, of any thoughts that begin to emerge out of your consciousness. Maybe it's a thought about a plan or something that's happened in the past and just notice it and bring your attention back to the next breath and the way in which you're collecting and settling.

1:27:20And the idea being that each thought that emerges, each, as we spoke about, secretion of the mind becomes something you can just allow to drop.

1:27:37and you can certainly keep your eyes closed or if you wish you can open your eyes and the reason to gently open the eyes taking a point on any surface in front of you is to practice being present for reality as it is and it can take time to learn how to keep your body still to learn how to not address every itch to stay still is to face the things that are difficult to face and to become stronger in your discernment of what you tend to and what you leave alone.

1:28:27And as time passes, you begin to notice that there's a part of your attention that actually can see and feel and ascertain everything that's happening.

1:28:38And it is on that part that you can rest all of your energy, all of your attention on that which sees everything.

1:29:02And the practice of noticing and dropping thoughts never really ends, but you may notice in time that the thoughts slowly become fewer and farther between.

1:29:23the pace slows down and the body begins to move into a really restful healing state in which homeostasis or health is prioritized balance is prioritized naturally physiologically

1:29:56we're taking about five to ten more breaths here depending on how deeply you're breathing so enjoy each one to the fullest and be extremely discerning as to which thought you follow and which thought you allow to recede.

1:30:24And if you're so inclined, you can bring your hands together, your palms together in gassho. You can place your fingertips right in front of your nose, about a fist away. And just take a moment to dedicate the benefit of this practice to all beings. anyone you know who needs it any community you know who's suffering

1:30:54and feel what happens in your chemistry when you move this benefit toward someone else and and how it changes within you.

1:31:09And I want to thank you for your practice.

1:31:16Thank you, my Chi. I love you. I love you so much. Thank you for having me on.

1:31:23Dr. Gabrielle Lyon:It is such an honor. my moments with you are some of my favorite same love you